# intereted in harnessed pulling



## dagwall

I've been thinking recently that Jubel might enjoy some sort of pulling sport. Looking on google I didn't find any organization around the DC area for any type of dog pulling. 

Where would I start on my own gauging his interest in pulling and what median to use (scooter, cart, etc). I know he's very strong from the times we come across rabbits on our walks near our house. He REALLY wants to get the rabbits who don't help by NOT running away even if I throw rocks near them. The rabbits don't move until we are about 10' away and they don't go very far away. Jubel is just over 50#, I'm just under 150# and when he sees those rabbits he does a decent job of pulling me in their directions. He already walks on a harness so he is pulling with just his chest and not his neck at least. I'm not sure if this is just high prey drive or some of it indicates he'll like pulling. 

Thanks for any input you can provide.


----------



## Keechak

I would get a good strong "leave it" command trained before putting your life in the hands of a rabbit chasing dog. If he DOES have a good leave it I would recommend picking up an x-back harness and a bike for a cheap starters kit  There is no need to join an organisation, and most organisations are not geared towards free style daily jaunts, they are almost all (while welcoming to newcomers) geared towards the musher who wishes to enter races and compete.

Once you get more into it you may want to invest in a mountain scooter which you can't pick up for $70 at walmart like you can with a bike.


----------



## RaeganW

Keechak, I seem to remember you've made X-back harnesses before. Do you have a pattern/tutorial or anything you used?


----------



## Keechak

RaeganW said:


> Keechak, I seem to remember you've made X-back harnesses before. Do you have a pattern/tutorial or anything you used?


 I coppied the pattern from Hawkeye's Alpine Outfitters X-Back but I needed the actual dog there for making it the right size.


----------



## sassafras

I highly recommend a book called "Ski Spot Run". It is geared towards skijoring but has a lot of good advice for summer training for the verbal commands that you'd use for scootering, and it does have some information about non-skijoring pulling sports.


----------



## dagwall

Thanks Sassafras I'll check that out eventually. I'm hoping to get into an introduction agility class soon just waiting for the school to finally post their new schedule.


----------



## dagwall

Ordered Ski Spot Run and it should arrive soon, also read up on scootering online and will probably buy a scooter, harness, and a bungee-like line to use starting in the early fall. It's too hot in the summer I think to get much use out of. 

I think he'll like it and really for the DC area buying all that equipment isn't too much more than a 7 week training class. I just signed up for an Agility I class starting Aug 1st, 7 weeks $185. They have about seven levels of agility classes up to competitve level that are all 7 weeks $185. So spending up to $250 on a scooter and accessories for something we may be able to do and enjoy a few days a week for most of the year doesn't sound to expensive. 

Even if he enjoys and does well in agility and I continue with some classes scootering would still be a fun option for us.


----------



## dagwall

So I'm in the process of reading Ski Spot Run and making an attempt to locate some decent trails to possibly scooter on using google searches.... Not much luck so far. I guess I'm going to have to go check out some of these trails myself, thinking of a park not too far away I went to a lot growing up but can't remember how 'smooth' the trail are. My question for those who do scootering/bikejoring is how level does the trail need to be. Level as in roots sticking out on the path being a hazard more for the scooter than the dog. I know some of the trails we walk on now wouldn't be good as they have 'steps' around 3-4' that would be rough going down and I don't think possible going up. 

Also if the trail is somewhat highly trafficed it needs to be wide enough to avoid the risk of running others down. Some of the trails I read about online mention use for mountain bikeing and horseback riding.... but I think both of those could deal with an unlevel path better than a dog pull scooter. It would be easy to find paved paths but that isn't good for the dog to run on. Are grassy fields a decent option?


----------



## MusherChic

> Are grassy fields a decent option?


Grassy fields are good. I have a friend who trains her sled dog team in a field in the fall and it works out great! The grass is soft on the dogs' paws' and is pretty easy on their rig too.

I agree with Keechak. Definitely make sure you have a good 'Leave It' command down or you might be going on many dog guided tours through the trees. I learned that one the hard way when my GSD, whom I was bikejoring with, took off after a deer. I sported some nice bruises after that.


----------



## dagwall

haha and there is the draw back of grassy fields.... He's pretty decent at 'leave it' for squirrels, chipmunks, and deer, but rabbits are a whole other story. We only seem to come across rabbits in the more open grassy areas. 

I've been walking with treats a lot of the time now working on his focus on me while walking and he's getting better at that. It used to be when we were out walking he really didn't want to look at me, much more interesting things to see besides me. He would listen to me just not look at me. If I told him to sit, stay, down he'd listen but I coudln't get him to look at me other than physically turning his face towards me (did not do this often). Now he knows the command 'look at me' and I'll randomly say it while we're walking and treat. Right now we're still working on consistently making eye contact and should be able to move on to duration soon.

When we come across rabbits prey drive kicks in but he's getting better about settling quicker and continuing with our walk. But coming across a rabbit on a scooter could be painful as of now. Right now I'm still very much in the planning stage for eventually doing this. Best case we'll try this in the fall, worst case next year.


----------



## Keechak

I go bikejoring thru a wooded trail with tons of rocks and roots sticking out, it beats the bike to heck and I have snapped off the peddle reflectors from hitting rocks and have even gotten a flat tire from the roughness of the trail. But man is it fun and the dogs enjoy it., I really should wear a helmet when I go on that trail.


----------



## MusherChic

One thing that I did with my sled dogs (to establish a good 'Leave It' command only I say 'On By') was I would walk one on a leash and when ever we came to something on the trail they were interested in I would say 'On By' and start running. Once we were passed whatever was on the trail I would slow down and praise the dog. Now whenever we pass something on the trail, the dogs speed up when I say 'On By' and we fly passed the rabbit, dog, squirrel whatever! 
It really helped for my leaders as both of them have sight hound in them. All of my sled dogs, except one, have some kind of sight hound or hunting dog in them so a good 'On By' was a must!


----------



## dagwall

Keechak said:


> I go bikejoring thru a wooded trail with tons of rocks and roots sticking out, it beats the bike to heck and I have snapped off the peddle reflectors from hitting rocks and have even gotten a flat tire from the roughness of the trail. But man is it fun and the dogs enjoy it., I really should wear a helmet when I go on that trail.


Would you recommend bikejoring over scootering? I was leaning more towards scootering thinking I'd have a bit more control but in reality I'm not so sure that's true. Also I think a scooter could possibly fit in my trunk and a bike would not, simple solution would be a bike rack for the car I guess.


----------



## sassafras

With the scooter, I've just been going around the neighborhood on the sidewalks and alleys, but I've also been scoping out some biking paths in the local parks. But I probably wouldn't do that with my bike at this point -- it's very easy to hop off the scooter and still control the brakes, grab the leash, etc. if something goes awry compared to a bike, also we're not going THAT fast on the scooter. If you have a good mountain bike or hybrid, though, I think off paved trails would be fine. 

And I agree 100% that Leave It/On By is the absolute most important command. I think if that's the only thing your dog knew, you'd be good to go. The pulling is self-rewarding enough for Maisy that her Leave it is getting stronger and stronger the more we scooter. Squash still has his puppy brain and the pulling isn't as self-rewarding for him yet, so he's a work in progress. I don't scooter with him yet at all, just canicross, while we work on it (plus he's a bit too young for me to want to work him hard with the scooter).


----------



## dagwall

Right now I don't have a bike at all so whichever I go with will have to be purchased.


----------



## sassafras

Well the bike would be more useful outside of dog sports, but the scooter MIGHT be easier to start with. I haven't been brave enough for bikejoring at all yet, the scooter feels safer to me (even though it's probably not). But plenty of people start out with bikejoring without doing the scooter first.


Sorry, that wasn't very helpful. I had a bike long before I ever started even thinking about doing this stuff, so the scooter was an addition.


----------



## dagwall

I'm thinking I might not use 'leave it' for those furry distractions we might come across. I like the idea of saying 'ON BY' and breaking into a jog to pass the distracting animal. Not sure how well that would work continuing to use 'leave it' as I use that command around the house often but I'm not going to be breaking into a run in any other situation. A separate command for this situation might be better.

Opinions?


----------



## sassafras

Personally I do like having a separate 'on by' and 'leave it'. I don't know if I'm going to articulate this well, but I see it like this... My dogs have shown that they can clearly make distinctions between contexts -- i.e. "I'm allowed to (and supposed to!) pull in my x-back harness, but not with a leash attached to my collar". So I think there is value in having context-specific commands such as using 'on by' in harness to keep a consistent context in mind for both me and the dogs. 

I actually have experimented using both 'leave it' and 'on by' with Maisy, and she responds FAR better to 'on by' in her harness. It just seems to reinforce this "all business" mindset in her. I'm only starting out in this stuff myself, so maybe it's just voodoo and bunk, but it's working for me so far. 

And I love MusherChic's suggested technique for teaching 'on by' and I'm yoinking it. Maisy picked it up really solid, really fast, but it is hard for Squash. He still has his puppy brain and he is SO NOSY. Always up for something that might work better than what I'm doing.


----------



## dagwall

haha serves me right. I was hoping to see a rabbit on our walk today to try out 'ON BY' and breaking into a jog. Well when I leave my neighborhood and cross a small bridge onto the path towards the park there is a rabbit right in our path about 15' away. Not the best to try jogging past haha. Luckily the rabbit did make a fun for it right away rather than just sitting there watching us as sometimes happens. Jubel lunged, I got him to sit and briefly glance at me before he started pulling and whining to chase the rabbit. Since the rabbit had run off at this point I decided to chance him pulling me off my feet as the worst case senerio and called out 'ON BY' and broke into a jog. 

A little down the path Jubel pulled to the right a bit, I said 'ON BY' again and gave a soft pull back toward the middle of the trail and he straightened back up. We returned to a walk and he was calm and walking nicely. A bit further towards the baseball fields he pulled over to the grass to sniff and I said 'ON BY' and before I could break into a jog myself he was trotting on. Don't know if it's chance or he somewhat grasps this right away, will take many more repetitions before I'm comfortable with it but it's a start.


----------



## dagwall

Talked to a neighbor who likes to run about trails in the area and she told me about 3 or 4 different ones. I went to check out the closest one today and unfortunately I mixed it up with a trail she said loops, this one did NOT. 

I remember seeing the internet saying it was 97ºC out before I left, it's worse with the humidity. After about 25 minutes on the trail I start to wonder if this trail did in fact loop. Told myself I'd go another 5 minutes then turn back. After 5 minutes I thought if it does loop it's got to be faster to just keep going than to go all the way back.... 40 minutes into this walk I hit a road crossing and decide it is time to turn back for sure. By this time I'm drenched in sweat and Jubel has a good pant going. I DID at least remember to bring a bottle of water for Jubel and had been stopping to give him water. Close to 80% of this trail is at least shaded with trees and there was a decent breeze occasionally. I stopped twice on the way back in the shade for about 5 minute rests with water when we stopped and before we moved on. 

I'm certainly beat from this adventure and will definitely plan better in the future (at least set a turn back time and stick to it) but it wasn't a complete disaster. The trail looks like a nice place to bikeoring or scooter in the future. It is paved and I'll continue to look for a dirt or gravel path but this is at least a good start. Wide trails with nice grassy shoulders in most places. We did see a lot of deer and Jubel did really well about just continuing to walk normally (even before he was too tired to do much else). I thought Jubel would be worn out for the night but after some time cooling back down at home he's back up and looking for something else to do tonight already. We got home around 5:50, it's almost 8:00 now. Haha I think he needs the added exertion of a pulling sport.

Edit: question, in the future if we end up out in the heat for too long is it best to just stop for some water and keep moving or take 5 minute rest breaks?


----------



## dagwall

Bought a mountain bike with suspension and disc brakes today along with a helmet and bike rack for my car. Wow that was more expensive than I thought it was going to be, sure hope Jubel enjoys this haha. Now I just need to get some measurements on Jubel to order a good pulling harness, tow line, and maybe some booties (just in case). The weather should be cool enough in a few weeks to get out for some short introduction runs I think. I'll get out a few times on the bike myself to get a feel for the bike in the mean time, I don't think I've been on a bike in about 10 years possibly haha.


----------



## zeronightfarm

sorry to bring this thread back up, but could some one recomend a web site to buy x-back harnesses? I have a friend that does this stuff with her dogs but her old harness is wore out, and the place she bought it from no longer exists.

Thanks.


----------



## sassafras

zeronightfarm said:


> sorry to bring this thread back up, but could some one recomend a web site to buy x-back harnesses? I have a friend that does this stuff with her dogs but her old harness is wore out, and the place she bought it from no longer exists.
> 
> Thanks.


Nordkyn or Alpine Outfitters are both good.


----------



## zeronightfarm

sassafras said:


> Nordkyn or Alpine Outfitters are both good.


Thanks!
to short


----------



## dagwall

Ordered Jubel's from Alpine Outfitters on Sunday. Hoping to get starting soon after it arrives.


----------



## zeronightfarm

oo please keep us updated!


----------



## Monster Malak

How big do they make the Harnesses. I have some Boz Shepherd dogs I would like to try out with the sport. In Turkey, they pull tractors from 7,000- 10,500 pounds. But they just hook the toe rope to the dogs collar.








This is Geisha our 18 month old female. Weighs 145-150 pounds, and is 31 inches at the shoulder. If she pulls like she likes to pull us,,,, might be good,,,haha.







Monster, our male. 10 months old, and still in the thin teenager stage. 







This is Monsters father in Turkey. 254 pounds, 38.5 inches. Pulls 10,500# from his collar.


----------



## zeronightfarm

Monster Malak said:


> How big do they make the Harnesses. I have some Boz Shepherd dogs I would like to try out with the sport. In Turkey, they pull tractors from 7,000- 10,500 pounds. But they just hook the toe rope to the dogs collar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Geisha our 18 month old female. Weighs 145-150 pounds, and is 31 inches at the shoulder. If she pulls like she likes to pull us,,,, might be good,,,haha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monster, our male. 10 months old, and still in the thin teenager stage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Monsters father in Turkey. 254 pounds, 38.5 inches. Pulls 10,500# from his collar.


I'm sure you can get some custom made!

BTW I've seen your web site. lovely dogs. I love Boz. There kind of a dream dog of mine. How much does a pup usualy cost?

Sorry to hijack thread


----------



## Monster Malak

Sent you a PM.

I will have to experement with it first to see if it would be worth the trouble to have a harness built. 
Dont think the Turkish way would be to good for their neck.


----------



## Charis

I found with mine I could experiment with a regular harness. You could probably experiment for just a moment with their collars (although I agree with you that it is probably not good for their necks) to see if she as interested. I know you can have them custom made and is affordable at my dog's size but they may be pricey at your dogs' sizes (one of your dogs is like 3 of mine). 
I looked up Alpine Outfitters and their website says $19 for a custom x-back harness "Custom made to your dog's measurements with your choice of colors, we can also sew on a FREE ID tag with either your dog's name OR phone number (maximum of 12 spaces). Please specify your dog's ID tag information, weight range, breed, and harness measurements in the text box below. The breed and weight information helps us verify your harness measurements."
http://alpineoutfitters.net/secure/scripts/prodview.asp?idProduct=17

May be more affordable than it looks...


----------



## dagwall

Yeah I'm still waiting on my custom harness to arrive from Alpine Outfitters, hoping it'll arrive within a week. When you place your order they ask some questions to go along with your measurements about the size/type of dog to help avoid bad measurements. They also say they'll contact you if they have questions. I guess with your huge dogs if they want/need to charge more for the added materials they'll contact you. But with a starting price of $19 I doubt it'd go up too much for your giant dogs.


----------



## dagwall

Harness arrived today AND it isn't raining (for now)!

Had no issue getting the harness on him, from my reading some dogs are NOT happy having it slide on over their heads. Once it was on and he was just standing there he seemed a bit annoyed by the straps on his sides and tried to bite at them a bit but was easily distracted. We went on about a 45 minute walk with the harness on to make sure he seems comfortable in it and did some jogging off and on. Definetly don't have the control over him that his normal harness has but that is when he ISN'T pulling and shouldn't be an issue for bikejoring. As long as I can find some time with weekend rain free we'll have our first short outing with the bike. 

Some quick pictures in the harness after our walk before I took it off


----------



## dagwall

Made our first try today... he doesn't get it at all. Good news he wasn't scared of the bike or me on it, he just didn't get that I wanted him to run in front of me. Going to have to get my brother to help me out with teaching Jubel what to do, bad news is we aren't both free at the same time until next weekend.

I'll have to refresh myself from "ski spot run" as to how to train him for pulling in the mean time. 

I was a little worried how he'd react to the bike behind him due to last weekend. He's never really reacted badly to anyone on a bike except last weekend. We were walking on a trail where a lot of people bike, jog, walk (with and without dogs) and twice Jubel got anxious about people on bikes behind us. Both times the people had stopped and were adjusting things or drinking. Jubel had just happened to look back and see them stopped a good distance behind us and he didn't want to keep moving, away from them as they were behind us. The first time he even tucked his tail when they did get moving again and past us. The second time we just turned around and headed back to the car, he was clearly not enjoying himself that morning so we went home cutting my planned long walk to a quite short walk. That was a completely new behavior and had me nervous for our bikejoring future. Looks like he was just having an off day, or something else about both those people (man and a woman) that bothered him.


----------



## Smorris

I've read the threads and your all missing the boat here. The most important command in any type of pulling activity is WHOA. 
Don't leave home without a good WHOA please. I mushed and scootered for many years with my team and sometimes a single Giant Schnauzer on trails on streats to Dunkins for coffe fields and meadows. Critters were never a problem and trust me my dogs were high pray dogs. I was running a team of two 120 pd of dogs. When a dog is in fast motion and a squirral passes it's path say 20 ft ahead the dogs already is running toward it. The critter sees the dog coming and they hide, they hide fast. End of problem. 
Where my dogs had problems is when they passed other dogs going in the opposite directions that's when you need a solid hike or leave it comman. If their moving fast enough they probably won't even try to meet and great they just want to run.

Even before the WHOA command you want to teach line out. You can start teaching this to little pups or older doesn't matter. Put some kind of harness on them (you don't need anything fancy for this). The put a long line 8 ft is good. Take the dog to the end of the line and show him a high drive treat. Wait for the dog to put his weight into the harness pulling the line taught and click and treat. Each time you do this ask for more weight into the harness and longer duration untill they can do a 3 to 5 min line out without you reminding them.
When they get good at this Wrap the line around your waist and give the command "line out" the dog will automatically pull till the line is taught. Now start walking with your dog continuing to keep the line between you and him tight. If he doesn't keep the line taught go back to step one and keep on doing it. Once he's good at walking with the line tight practice your Whoas. REMEMBER the most important thing is WHOA means WHOA. 
When I went to mushing school they a jeep there and we fit a dozen dogs around that jeep on a line out. No fighting, growling or playing all dogs where hard at work doing there line out. It was a wonderfull thing to see.


----------



## MusherChic

I personally have never used a "Whoa" command but that's just me. I use my breaks to control their speed. I guess a "Whoa" command would be good in my case if I were to fall off the sled/bike/rig but I'm not even sure they would stop. lol  I just had to get good at holding on when I fall off. 

I have to agree about having a good "Line Out". Not only is it good for teaching how to pull but it makes hooking up a team all the more easier. I have a leader who is really good at "Tighten Up" (as I like to call it lol) and I can just hook up and go, I don't have to have extra help to hold my dogs out nor do I have to try and anchor the dogs in some way so they stay straight.


----------



## Smorris

When mushing in a suburbia or parks a whoa is a must. They teach it in mushing school, they drill it into you in mushing school. I ran with a kick sled no real brakes there and a diggler with two 125 lb dogs. The brakes on either of those would not even slow those dogs down but a well trained Whoa worked great. I also trained a "ease over" for when I was running them in the streats. They were trained to stay to the left of the white line on the side of the road. If they got distracted I could to remind them with a ease over command. Gee and Haw are just as important and should be trained before you hook up your dogs to a sled or scooter. When I say I was running a team I mean they were at a good running clip most of the time. 
Once I fell off the sled with the dogs running down hill at a good clip (they always seem to run faster down hills) I was able to yell out Whoa and yes the dogs stopped and I was able to retrieve them and sled and go on my way.


----------



## +two

How is Jubel taking to bikejoring?


----------



## Smorris

Well you see that,s why I needed a solid whoa, my Canadian kick sled had no brakes. Yes I had a habit of kissing trees going down hill. Ouch.


----------



## Canyx

I also find that "Whoa" is pretty important... But I've always had Soro next to my bike and not in front. It's helpful for stop signs and curbs, esp. because we used to bike in a fairly metropolitan area.

I don't think I can ever get Soro to be a true puller of any sort, but I've taught him "Line out" these last few days and have been working on getting him to keep pressure on the leash. He really likes to keep a loose leash, probably from all my correcting him on walks throughout his life. Smorris, how did they motivate the dogs to pull in your class? I read somewhere that one should try not to motivate/reward with food? If so, that's the only thing that will get Soro to pull. But oh well, we're doing this for fun anyways


----------



## dagwall

It's been raining so much we haven't gotten much time to bikejore. I got my brother out the other weekend to call Jubel and get him running while I was on the bike behind him. The biggest problem I think was Jubel with try and break into a fast run right away, faster than I was going, and have a jerk at the end of the bungee extention. Needs to learn a bit more of a gradual start as I don't want to go too fast and risk running into him. 

As soon as I get a weekend that's rain free I think I'm just going to go to the paved trail and see how he does. The little we did running circles in the parking lot of the park near my house he seemed to enjoy. At this point I think we just need to get out and do it and learn by doing so to speak.


----------



## Smorris

Quick answer: 
1. Have a dog they don't know at 1/4 to 1/2 mile away where your dog can see him and they want to investgate but once they get there don't let them.
2. have another dog(s) show them the ropes. read below for the whole story
3. Have someone in your home race him home with hot dogs. read below for the whole story 

Well, that's a funny story. The classes I took they say the line out and presence of other dogs will motivate your dogs to pull which is true. Problem is alot of people out there just has one dog like me when I first started. So my Big Jake did an 100 percent all the time great line out and he knew how to pull the diggler or sled but it was more like a walk in the woods then a good hard ride until my foster kid rode his bike in front of me one day and I handed him off the bag of hot dogs I happened to have on me (not for treating moving forward but for treating jumping in the car)and told him to head home and put these in the fridge not thinking anything about it. We where about 1/2 mile away from house well as soon as Jake heard home and saw that Eddie was going to beat him there and Eddie had the hot dogs Big Jake took off at dead neck speed. It was awesome and it was a light bulb moment for Jake as well. You could see the dog laughing as he's barreling down the road and ever since then Jake was an awesome sled dog and I bought another GS and had a team. The word went out and people from all over would bring there dogs and we would hook them up tandem with Big Jake and he'd show them the ropes. Big Jake was a large dog and other dogs just would do what they thought he wanted like "you better pull you share or I'll give you the evil stare" and they would always leave pulling something.


----------



## dagwall

Well we went out today to try some learning by doing, it wasn't horrible but he still doesn't quite get it. Spent most of the time going at a walking pace with me coasting behind him tapping the breaks. Anytime he was pulling he got lots of praise and we got going pretty well for a short stretch. I think next time I'll try and get my friend to come along with her bike and try and call him to her, try and get him to chase her. Not sure if it'll work but worth a try.


----------



## Smorris

Nice work, the most important thing is a solid line out. You should see him putting his weight into the the chest strap. Once he has that down tie the pull line around your waist so he's dragging you. Don't worry the dog will learn the difference between walking on a collar and working a harness. At this stage line out is the most important thing you can teach.
When he's pulling you then use your lure. If you look at my Big Jakes picture in my photo album the one that just shows in in harness you can see him doing a line out putting his weight into that strap, that's all you need.


----------



## dagwall

Well I've been bad about getting back out there with Jubel but we got out this morning. Last time we were out he wasn't too sure about actually pulling me and if I somewhat forced it we were plodding along at a snails pace. So this time I started with more of him running WITH me because if that's really what he prefers I'll just get the side attachment and that's what we'll do instead of pulling. 

Overall everything went pretty well this morning. We need more work on NOT stopping to sniff stuff, I had him poop and pee before I loaded him, the bike, and equipment into the car and drove to the park (less than 5 minute drive). So I started by holding the towline (still attached to the bike just hold slack) in my fingers at the handlebar so if and when he stopped and I hit the breaks the towline doesn't get wrapped around the front wheel axis and in the gears. The problem came from him swapping sides occasionally and slowing/stopping. Good use of "ON BY" helped but wasn't 100%.

Anytime he ran ahead and put tension on the towline I said "good boy" and if the tension remained and he was pulling lots and lots of positive encouragement was shouted to him. For the most part he ran/trotted alond with me, often out front, occasionally pulling. He did pull more near the end of our trip so it seems like he's getting it. We'll go back out again tomorrow and possibly for a bit longer. The distance we covered this morning we usually walk in just under an hour and most of it was at least jogged today. He wasn't even winded when we got back to the car. I simply to down a trail, turn around and head back when the paved path ends and the dirt gravel starts. I'll either go a bit further or go out and back, out again but about half the distance. Now that it's getting nice and cool out I think he can run longer easier, he likes the cold.


----------



## sassafras

dagwall said:


> So I started by holding the towline (still attached to the bike just hold slack) in my fingers at the handlebar so if and when he stopped and I hit the breaks the towline doesn't get wrapped around the front wheel axis and in the gears.


Alpine Outfitters sells a thingy called a scooter noodle that helps hold the line up off your front wheel and I highly recommend it. Haven't had a tangle since I started using it. Basically your line goes through it, it's maybe a foot or a foot and a half long, and then the far end has a strap to attach to your handlebars to keep it out straight. Also, if you're handy you could probably make something similar to it. The noodle I purchased is made of a stiff foam but you could probably make one out of PCV pipe or something too.


The more I chat with and read accounts from other greenhorns like me, the more grateful I am to have Maisy. The number one problem everyone seems to have is getting the dogs out in front. It would be a battle to keep her FROM getting out in front, I'm so lucky (who thought I'd ever feel lucky to have a dog who is a die-hard puller LOL).


----------



## dagwall

haha he likes being out front 90% of the time be it walking, jogging (the short little bursts I add to our walks sometimes), or with the bike. He just isn't so sure about that slight jolt he gets when he takes off quickly and me and the bike don't, possibly he thinks of them as corrections for pulling. We never really worked on line out and that could be a bit part of it. From today's experience it seems he's okay will pulling once we're already going. Like if I stop pedaling and bleed the brakes a bit he'll keep going and end up pulling me along. It seems that jolt from starting too fast is the problem. 

We'll keep at it for a bit before I give up and just go with a side attachment. The noodle sounds like a good idea. He will mostly stay in front and a little to one side the majority of the time but occasionally decides to swap sides and that is usually followed by an attempted stop. Those combine easily to a towline wrapped around a wheel axis. Whatever we end up doing he'll be out running and having fun so it'll all good.


----------



## sassafras

I wonder if it's something about bikes specifically. I tried taking Maisy out with my bike instead of the scooter once, and she was pretty spooked by it. Of course, by that time she was used to the scooter so maybe it was just weird by virtue of being a different "thing"...


----------



## Smorris

The idea is to get out and do something with your dog and you did that, sounds like you had a good time too. How's his line out doing? If the dog is well trained when he's in harnesses he should be putting his weight into the harness at all times standing, running, or walking. If he's not doing that then practice more. MKe sure to always stand in back of him not in front of him when he's doing a line out. You don't want him to get used to you in front or to the side of him while in harness. The important thing is for both of you to be enjoying yourselves.


----------



## Smorris

Thought!!! What kind of harness and tow line are you using?


----------



## dagwall

He's got an x-back harness from alpine outfitters and a 8' towline. There is a picture of him in the harness on page two of this thread.


----------



## Smorris

the fit looks good. You might want to pick up a single shock absorber $12.00 http://www.blackicedogsledding.com/page13.html. 
I just grabbed this site because I knew right where to look, all sites have them. Get the one for a 1 Or 2 dog team. You can also make your own if you have an old thin bicycle tube around. just cut a piece around 8 to 10 inches put two holes in either end and attach your gang line to it. this will take up any shock. Our sensitive house dogs don't like that sudden yank they get. You might also want to pick up a belly band that attahes to the underside of the x back. For some reason the dogs feel more secure with them in place. These two items made a big diffence for my dogs for little money.


----------

