# German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other questions!)



## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

Hello, I’m planning to get a dog in the future (few years to 10 ten years in the future) and I’ve researched a bit, but I do need some input and help. I’m ideally looking for an outdoorsy dog that’s fine with going on hikes as hiking and trail walking are my biggest joy. So far, I like the look of the GSP but am considering some other dogs such as a Weimaraner, German Shepherd, Swiss Mountain Dog, Hungarian vizsla and a Chocolate lab. 
These are my criteria tho:
- I hike around anywhere from 3-11 miles whenever I go out, dog must be able to keep up. Also camping is one of my hobbies so if they can come with that would be great!
- Somewhat easy to train.
- Must be obedient/somewhat easy to maintain off leash, I'd rather it not go chasing off after local fauna.
- Somewhat protective. I don't think I'll be getting married, sadly lol, so I'd like it to warn me anything comes by. However, on the flip side, I don't want it to be too protective in-case I have people over (or a roommate).
- Doesn't shed a whole lot, I understand most dogs do, but I don't want them to require a whole ton of grooming.
- I probably won't get one till after grad school (if I plan on going to grad school), but if I do, which would do best alone, without destroying things?
- As corny as it sounds, I'd like a dog that'll just enjoy my company too. Not too independent that it takes off running whenever I open the door, but that'll wait for me or just walk near me whenever we go out.

So far, these are the only things I can think of, but I might add in things later. I do understand that dogs are a huge responsibility, trust me, that's why I'm thinking far ahead. But I really do appreciate comments/suggestions! I'm a bit partial to 'wolf' looking dog breeds/mixes and solid colors sometimes tho aha. Also, would it be possible to train a dog not to be destructive while alone, or is it generally impossible?

Thanks!


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

If you don't want grooming and minimal shedding you DON'T want a GSD (german shepherd dog) because they shed A LOT, I cannot stress this enough they are also called german shedders  I think a GSP would be a good choice, I don't know much about them other than they require a lot of exercise sorry


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

kcomstoc said:


> If you don't want grooming and minimal shedding you DON'T want a GSD (german shepherd dog) because they shed A LOT, I cannot stress this enough they are also called german shedders  I think a GSP would be a good choice, I don't know much about them other than they require a lot of exercise sorry


I had forgot to mention, GSDs, Huskys, Malamutes and a few others are the only ones I'd tolerate when it comes to shedding haha. 

But thanks for the replu!


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## mudypony (Jul 31, 2014)

An adult GSP might be a good option for you. I know someone who has had three in the time I've known him but currently owns two. His parents also used to breed them. I love the breed, but I know I could never own one due to their exercise requirements; they are definitely high energy! 

The ones I know are good-natured, reliable off-leash, trained to stay on the property even without a fence (takes a lot of boundary training), and get a lot of their exercise patrolling the farm and getting rid of unwanted critters. They do roam pretty far away from you but the three I know always circle back to check with you and then head off again and pretty much always stay within sight. They'll alert you when people show up on their property, but it never escalates beyond that (except maybe an overly exuberant, friendly greeting from the male). From my experience, they are pretty trainable but will not hang off your every word, like say a golden retriever. 

I'm thinking an adult would be a good choice because they are past the crazy teenage stage in their life and will generally be more likely to have an off-switch in the house and be capable of settling when you're not on the go (given that they are properly exercised of course). I will say that not having an off-switch is the biggest problem with this breed. The ones I know are true farm dogs and spend quite a bit of time in a kennel. Both prefer staying in the kennel vs the house but when in the house the older female settles great and the young male is... working on it haha. Neither of them are destructive in the house, however. I do have to warn you that they are not the best with small critters, such as cats.

So, basically to sum up GSPs, if you can provide them with enough exercise and attend training classes (that use positive reinforcement), then they can be fantastic dogs. I absolutely love the breed but realize I would never be able to provide enough exercise to have one myself, so I'm happy I have a few I can visit all the time. I do consider them a big step up from a typical lab, and that is something to keep in mind (higher exercise requirement, not as trainable, a little more independent). If you're willing to put in the time and work, they're fantastic.

I don't have a ton of experience with Weims or Viszlas, but the ones I've known seem to be as high energy or higher than GSPs. I don't know if the ones I know are abnormal, but they all seem a bit higher on the crazy, won't settle side than GSPs and also tend to be prone to separation anxiety. I'll let someone who knows the breeds better to fill you in on them, as I am not familiar enough with them to do so.

As far as Huskies and Malamutes (basically all spitz type breeds), they are known for being fairly independent, not reliable off leash, and lean towards being more difficult to train (but are extremely smart, probably too smart). So, I would not recommend them for your needs. They also shed a TON! I do get their appeal though, as they are absolutely gorgeous! But looks aren't everything!

Lastly, a lab or GSD could be a good choice for you as well. I have more experience with labs (though someday I WILL own a GSD!), so I'll comment more on them. They are typically an "easier" version of a GSP. Maybe that's not the best way to put it, but they are both sporting breeds and like to have a job to do. But labs seem a bit more adaptable, easier to train (more willing to listen), more likely to stick close by when off leash, and lower exercise requirements (at least as an adult). They are very good dogs for an active, first time dog owners and would probably be a great choice for you as well. They do shed more than GSPs for sure though!


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## Springer (Feb 19, 2014)

I'm not sure what you are looking for in the "not much grooming" department, but just be warned that a short haired dog like a GSP will have short hair that weaves into everything! My son's girlfriend always comments on the difference in this respect between her Dad's GSP & my field bred Springer. FB Springer hair is a bit longer, but easier to get off of things. Think it is the same with any short haired breed. JMHO


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Hmmm I don't know much about most of the breeds you've mentioned, but I have had extensive interactions with a few Vizslas.

They fit your bill for the most part... but they are smart smart smart, and have energy up the wazoo. My boss has one who runs through the woods everyday for about 2 hours along with walks and he is still rearing for more (he would come with her to her store). He was SUPER affectionate, to a point where it gets kind of annoying because he learned to yelp for attention lol. He was whip smart and with clicker training he'd learn simple tricks with 2-3 repetitions. He was SUPER attached to his owner... to a point where he suffers from really horrible separation anxiety. I actually think I read somewhere that pointers tend to be prone to SA and he is true to the case.

And yes, they're low on the grooming department but their hairs are like little needles that get threaded into your yoga pants lol!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

As far as grooming goes, as others mentioned GSDs and labs shed a *ton*. Short haired dogs like GSPs also shed a lot more than you would expect for a short haired dog, but you'd have less tumbledweeds in your house than with some of the others.

Unfortunately huskies and similar dogs are not generally off leash reliable and are pretty independent, so most wolf-like dogs are probably out. GSDs could fit your requirements though and are typically good off leash (except for the shedding). 

GSPs are cool dogs, but really high energy and not always good off leash. They generally come back, but they are bred to hunt away from you and hold the point until you get there, and lots of hunters put GPS collars on them so they can find them. They are not bred to have a close orbit. You can work on this of course, but it's probably going to be something you really have to work on and not something that comes super naturally to the dog. They are very athletic though and would love to hike, and they are velcro with their people generally.

I would try to meet some of the breeds you're interested. And make sure you meet young dogs. A GSP from 0-3 years is going to be a totally different dog than a well trained 5 year old and adolescent sporting dogs can be a pain to live with sometimes.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Weims are weird. They're really smart and have odd senses of humor. They're goofy in a way most German breeds aren't. I like weims a lot, but I wouldn't recommend them to newbies.

Honestly, out of your list, a lab is your best bet. (There's no difference between the colors.) They're biddable, friendly, and smart and once they hit adulthood they aren't ridiculous with the energy. As puppies, they are nightmare landsharks, though. Not that GSD puppies are much better. Labs have the advantage of solid temperaments (if properly bred). GSDs, even well bred ones, can get very spooky very easily in the wrong hands. Labs are so solid they can absorb a beginner's mistakes.

Huskies are a no go offleash. All the Viszlas I've ever met were crazy high energy. Super nice dogs, but crazy high energy.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

mudypony said:


> An adult GSP might be a good option for you. I know someone who has had three in the time I've known him but currently owns two. His parents also used to breed them. I love the breed, but I know I could never own one due to their exercise requirements; they are definitely high energy!
> 
> The ones I know are good-natured, reliable off-leash, trained to stay on the property even without a fence (takes a lot of boundary training), and get a lot of their exercise patrolling the farm and getting rid of unwanted critters. They do roam pretty far away from you but the three I know always circle back to check with you and then head off again and pretty much always stay within sight. They'll alert you when people show up on their property, but it never escalates beyond that (except maybe an overly exuberant, friendly greeting from the male). From my experience, they are pretty trainable but will not hang off your every word, like say a golden retriever.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply!
The only problem is, I don't think I'll be able to find a GSP adult within my budget or area. I might only be able to get a puppy, which I hope to learn how to train at an early age so hopefully it will have an 'off-switch' haha. I won't be able to take them on a 11 mile hike everyday, but I'll be able to walk them in the morning and in evening for 3-4 miles each. After reading this, I might be swayed to get a lab first, but I'd still like a GSP haha.



Springer said:


> I'm not sure what you are looking for in the "not much grooming" department, but just be warned that a short haired dog like a GSP will have short hair that weaves into everything! My son's girlfriend always comments on the difference in this respect between her Dad's GSP & my field bred Springer. FB Springer hair is a bit longer, but easier to get off of things. Think it is the same with any short haired breed. JMHO


Well I'd better stock up on lint rollers then! haha 
Thanks!



taquitos said:


> Hmmm I don't know much about most of the breeds you've mentioned, but I have had extensive interactions with a few Vizslas.
> 
> They fit your bill for the most part... but they are smart smart smart, and have energy up the wazoo. My boss has one who runs through the woods everyday for about 2 hours along with walks and he is still rearing for more (he would come with her to her store). He was SUPER affectionate, to a point where it gets kind of annoying because he learned to yelp for attention lol. He was whip smart and with clicker training he'd learn simple tricks with 2-3 repetitions. He was SUPER attached to his owner... to a point where he suffers from really horrible separation anxiety. I actually think I read somewhere that pointers tend to be prone to SA and he is true to the case.
> 
> And yes, they're low on the grooming department but their hairs are like little needles that get threaded into your yoga pants lol!


Thanks for the reply! 
Do you think there's a way to train out the seperation anxiety? I don't mind if they're always close to whenever around, but I don't want them to run around destroying my apartment/house haha.



elrohwen said:


> As far as grooming goes, as others mentioned GSDs and labs shed a *ton*. Short haired dogs like GSPs also shed a lot more than you would expect for a short haired dog, but you'd have less tumbledweeds in your house than with some of the others.
> 
> Unfortunately huskies and similar dogs are not generally off leash reliable and are pretty independent, so most wolf-like dogs are probably out. GSDs could fit your requirements though and are typically good off leash (except for the shedding).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply!
I'll make sure to brush them after I we go out on a hike at least!
I want to be able to work with my dog at least everyday for the first few years, or more, so that it's easier to handle. Not only will it be better for me, but I'm the first one in my extended family who wants/will own a dog, so I want/need to make sure that they're on their best behavior whenever someone comes by. 

How many miles should you take them out on a walk each day in your opinion? I'm thinking about maybe 6-10 miles everyday and then on weekend a hike or a longer walk.

Will do, thanks for the tips!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> I'll make sure to brush them after I we go out on a hike at least!
> I want to be able to work with my dog at least everyday for the first few years, or more, so that it's easier to handle. Not only will it be better for me, but I'm the first one in my extended family who wants/will own a dog, so I want/need to make sure that they're on their best behavior whenever someone comes by.
> 
> ...


You can do all the training in the world, but teenagers will be teenagers and the sporting dog adolescents can be hell on wheels. No amount of training will make a young dog into an old mellow dog. Just be prepared! I know many people who met a really sweet adult brittany/GSP/golden/whatever and were shocked when their puppy turned into a hellion around 8 months. It happens, you get through it, and by 3 years old you have an awesome dog. It would be helpful to meet some adolescents though to see if it's something you can live with.

I think 6-10 miles a day is going to be too much for many dogs. It's definitely too much for a dog under 12-18 months since they're still growing. I know someone with a viszla who does distance running and trains for half marathons and such, and it's not easy to find a dog who can do that. If you're that serious of a hiker I think something athletic and high energy like a GSP or viszla could be a really good fit. A field bred lab could probably keep up as well.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

Amaryllis said:


> Weims are weird. They're really smart and have odd senses of humor. They're goofy in a way most German breeds aren't. I like weims a lot, but I wouldn't recommend them to newbies.
> 
> Honestly, out of your list, a lab is your best bet. (There's no difference between the colors.) They're biddable, friendly, and smart and once they hit adulthood they aren't ridiculous with the energy. As puppies, they are nightmare landsharks, though. Not that GSD puppies are much better. Labs have the advantage of solid temperaments (if properly bred). GSDs, even well bred ones, can get very spooky very easily in the wrong hands. Labs are so solid they can absorb a beginner's mistakes.
> 
> Huskies are a no go offleash. All the Viszlas I've ever met were crazy high energy. Super nice dogs, but crazy high energy.


What do you mean they have an odd sense of humor and are goofy? I've never had a dog so I'm a bit of a newbie haha

I'll make sure to check out GSP, GSD and Labs the most. How long do they go through the 'landshark' stage? And by spooky, for the GSDs, do you mean they become aggressive towards people or?

Do you think Viszlas and Weims would do better with a playmate or just as the only dog?

Thanks!


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> You can do all the training in the world, but teenagers will be teenagers and the sporting dog adolescents can be hell on wheels. No amount of training will make a young dog into an old mellow dog. Just be prepared! I know many people who met a really sweet adult brittany/GSP/golden/whatever and were shocked when their puppy turned into a hellion around 8 months. It happens, you get through it, and by 3 years old you have an awesome dog. It would be helpful to meet some adolescents though to see if it's something you can live with.
> 
> I think 6-10 miles a day is going to be too much for many dogs. It's definitely too much for a dog under 12-18 months since they're still growing. I know someone with a viszla who does distance running and trains for half marathons and such, and it's not easy to find a dog who can do that. If you're that serious of a hiker I think something athletic and high energy like a GSP or viszla could be a really good fit. A field bred lab could probably keep up as well.


Gotcha, well at least they'll be interesting every day haha. I'll make sure to meet some of all ages before I make the decision. 

How much would you say I should walk a sport/hunting dog (Vizla, Weim, GSP) or a lab/GSD when they're that age? And I'm guessing after 9 years or so I should ease off the mileage too?

Thanks!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> Gotcha, well at least they'll be interesting every day haha. I'll make sure to meet some of all ages before I make the decision.
> 
> How much would you say I should walk a sport/hunting dog (Vizla, Weim, GSP) or a lab/GSD when they're that age? And I'm guessing after 9 years or so I should ease off the mileage too?
> 
> Thanks!


Puppies can free run all they want, so some off leash hiking would actually be better than a regular leashed walk on the sidewalk. I think I was walking my last pup about 1.5-2.5 miles a day (0.5 in the morning, the rest in one longer walk) when he was 5-6 months old, on grass and dirt, not pavement, but it was leashed. You mostly want to avoid "forced" exercise where the dog has to go at the same pace for the whole time, can't easily stop when tired, and is on a hard surface, until around 12-18 months for a bigger dog.

And yes, they certainly keep things interesting and entertaining, even when you kind of want to strangle them. Haha


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Puppies can free run all they want, so some off leash hiking would actually be better than a regular leashed walk on the sidewalk. I think I was walking my last pup about 1.5-2.5 miles a day (0.5 in the morning, the rest in one longer walk) when he was 5-6 months old, on grass and dirt, not pavement, but it was leashed. You mostly want to avoid "forced" exercise where the dog has to go at the same pace for the whole time, can't easily stop when tired, and is on a hard surface, until around 12-18 months for a bigger dog.
> 
> And yes, they certainly keep things interesting and entertaining, even when you kind of want to strangle them. Haha


Should I be worried about letting a young puppy (less than a year) off a leash? I don't want them running off and me not being able to get them back and all haha.
They shouldn't be walked on sidewalk? Should they only be walked in a trail area or can they be taken around for a walk around the neighborhood and be walking on a mix of grass, sidewalk and a bit of pavement? And what do you mean they can't easily stop when tired when going the same pace? Sorry for the amount of questions, I'm just trying to learn aha. Thanks!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> Should I be worried about letting a young puppy (less than a year) off a leash? I don't want them running off and me not being able to get them back and all haha.
> They shouldn't be walked on sidewalk? Should they only be walked in a trail area or can they be taken around for a walk around the neighborhood and be walking on a mix of grass, sidewalk and a bit of pavement? And what do you mean they can't easily stop when tired when going the same pace? Sorry for the amount of questions, I'm just trying to learn aha. Thanks!


They are pretty clingy and not very fast when they're little. Most little puppies will follow you around and not let you out of their site, and my husband at least could run our last puppy down easily until he was probably 5 months. My own pup was off leash every day on our property until 8 months when he started to blow off recalls. I like to start puppies off leash but you will probably have to go to a long line for a while and work on recall more. But a 20-50ft long line gives them enough room to run around and do their thing.

Hard surfaces are tougher on young and growing joints. Just like people often run on dirt trails to save their knees, dirt or grass will be gentler on a puppy. Not that you can't ever walk on sidewalks or roads, but I wouldn't walk a pup on concrete as long as I would walk them on dirt or grass. So you can certainly walk around the neighborhood, just let the puppy kind of meander from grass to pavement and don't expect a 5 mile walk on a city sidewalk from a young pup. That's why I said a hike, especially off leash or on a long line, would be better exercise than a walk on a short leash on a city sidewalk - the puppy can go at his own pace on a dirt path, rather than keeping up with you on a hard surface.

I meant that if you are doing a walk on a short leash and just marching along, the puppy will probably just march along at your pace even if he's tired and should be stopping. And going at a consistent pace for a long time is worse for joints in a young dog. If the puppy can run around at his own pace, sprinting one minute, lying down the next, then walking, he's going to better off. Not that you can never walk a puppy on a shorter leash and expect him to keep up, it's just something you want to limit a bit, vs letting the puppy run around at his own pace which you can let him do a lot more of.

ETA: Think of it like a human kid. You would be fine with your kid running around in the grass as much as they wanted until they were tired and ready to stop. But you wouldn't make a little kid run 5 miles at a consistent pace on concrete, because it wouldn't be good for them. Puppies are the same.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> What do you mean they have an odd sense of humor and are goofy? I've never had a dog so I'm a bit of a newbie haha
> 
> I'll make sure to check out GSP, GSD and Labs the most. How long do they go through the 'landshark' stage? And by spooky, for the GSDs, do you mean they become aggressive towards people or?
> 
> ...


First things first, if you're a novice, one dog is too much, 2 is absolutely not, do not do that to yourself or the dog(s). Please. Dogs don't need "playmates", they need active, interested owners with the motivation and skills to help them learn and grow.

Odd sense of humor? They just find really weird things funny. Like, not at all what humans would find funny. My dog has a normal doggy sense of humor. Sometimes he wraps his leash around a pole and then dances around while I unwrap it. Weims are way past that into the Twilight Zone.

Spooky- that "protective" thing you want? In experienced, able hands, yes, GSDs have a protective instinct. In inexperienced hands, that same instinct becomes fear. Fear in a large, powerful dog is dangerous. It's why GSDs aren't recommended as first time dogs. You can find tons of adolescent and young adult GSDs in rescue because their inexperienced owners raised a spooky dog, the dog attacked someone and the owner bailed. It's a very common story.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> They are pretty clingy and not very fast when they're little. Most little puppies will follow you around and not let you out of their site, and my husband at least could run our last puppy down easily until he was probably 5 months. My own pup was off leash every day on our property until 8 months when he started to blow off recalls. I like to start puppies off leash but you will probably have to go to a long line for a while and work on recall more. But a 20-50ft long line gives them enough room to run around and do their thing.
> 
> Hard surfaces are tougher on young and growing joints. Just like people often run on dirt trails to save their knees, dirt or grass will be gentler on a puppy. Not that you can't ever walk on sidewalks or roads, but I wouldn't walk a pup on concrete as long as I would walk them on dirt or grass. So you can certainly walk around the neighborhood, just let the puppy kind of meander from grass to pavement and don't expect a 5 mile walk on a city sidewalk from a young pup. That's why I said a hike, especially off leash or on a long line, would be better exercise than a walk on a short leash on a city sidewalk - the puppy can go at his own pace on a dirt path, rather than keeping up with you on a hard surface.
> 
> ...


Okay, thanks for the explanation! So I'm thinking I should take them to a park, or yard (if I have them), mainly and let them tire themselves out? And at 8-12 months should be fine to take on a longer walk on pavement (for most or some of the time)?

Gotcha, thanks again!

And which kind of dog food would you recommend for a more active dog?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> Okay, thanks for the explanation! So I'm thinking I should take them to a park, or yard (if I have them), mainly and let them tire themselves out? And at 8-12 months should be fine to take on a longer walk on pavement (for most or some of the time)?
> 
> Gotcha, thanks again!
> 
> And which kind of dog food would you recommend for a more active dog?


I would still do leashed walks with a younger dog, I did them all the time when my dog was a pup, but just be conscious that you're not pushing them to exhaustion, and keep it to grass or dirt trails if you can. Don't take a 3 month old puppy out for a 5 mile walk or something. And yeah, a lot of time running free (even on a long line) is great for puppies.

By 12-18 months, the growth plates close and you don't have to worry about it anymore, so that's when I would start training the dog as a running partner, for example, or to jump in agility. You need to condition them as you would any athlete, but you don't need to worry about growing joints any more.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

Amaryllis said:


> First things first, if you're a novice, one dog is too much, 2 is absolutely not, do not do that to yourself or the dog(s). Please. Dogs don't need "playmates", they need active, interested owners with the motivation and skills to help them learn and grow.
> 
> Odd sense of humor? They just find really weird things funny. Like, not at all what humans would find funny. My dog has a normal doggy sense of humor. Sometimes he wraps his leash around a pole and then dances around while I unwrap it. Weims are way past that into the Twilight Zone.
> 
> Spooky- that "protective" thing you want? In experienced, able hands, yes, GSDs have a protective instinct. In inexperienced hands, that same instinct becomes fear. Fear in a large, powerful dog is dangerous. It's why GSDs aren't recommended as first time dogs. You can find tons of adolescent and young adult GSDs in rescue because their inexperienced owners raised a spooky dog, the dog attacked someone and the owner bailed. It's a very common story.


Oh don't worry, I was thinking for the 'playmate' part, if they needed it, would have been after I had at least ten years owning a dog. 

Gotcha, that sounds pretty funny tho haha. When I was thinking 'odd sense of humor' for a dog, I pictured when my friend said his cat had an odd sense of humor in a way he would bring live snakes into the house haha.

I won't be getting a GSD until I'm settled down, and would only be a second dog, at least.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> I would still do leashed walks with a younger dog, I did them all the time when my dog was a pup, but just be conscious that you're not pushing them to exhaustion, and keep it to grass or dirt trails if you can. Don't take a 3 month old puppy out for a 5 mile walk or something. And yeah, a lot of time running free (even on a long line) is great for puppies.
> 
> By 12-18 months, the growth plates close and you don't have to worry about it anymore, so that's when I would start training the dog as a running partner, for example, or to jump in agility. You need to condition them as you would any athlete, but you don't need to worry about growing joints any more.



Okay, I'll make sure to follow those tips! And I'll make sure to read the dog too and always carry a bottle of water for the puppy. Thanks so much for the help!

If the weather is really bad (extreme weather warning or blizzard), would running on a treadmill be okay for the dog?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> Okay, I'll make sure to follow those tips! And I'll make sure to read the dog too and always carry a bottle of water for the puppy. Thanks so much for the help!
> 
> If the weather is really bad (extreme weather warning or blizzard), would running on a treadmill be okay for the dog?


Treadmills are great for adults. Again, not something you want to do with a puppy because it's a forced speed, but you can get a puppy interested in the treadmill and turn it on at low speeds so they aren't afraid of it. The only problem with human treadmills is that they can be too short for the dog's stride. A small/medium dog would probably be fine, but something like a GSP or GSD definitely would have too long of a stride. Worth a try though if you already have a treadmill at home.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Treadmills are great for adults. Again, not something you want to do with a puppy because it's a forced speed, but you can get a puppy interested in the treadmill and turn it on at low speeds so they aren't afraid of it. The only problem with human treadmills is that they can be too short for the dog's stride. A small/medium dog would probably be fine, but something like a GSP or GSD definitely would have too long of a stride. Worth a try though if you already have a treadmill at home.


Definitely wasn't planning on using it for puppies. And will do, thanks!


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> Oh don't worry, I was thinking for the 'playmate' part, if they needed it, would have been after I had at least ten years owning a dog.
> 
> Gotcha, that sounds pretty funny tho haha. When I was thinking 'odd sense of humor' for a dog, I pictured when my friend said his cat had an odd sense of humor in a way he would bring live snakes into the house haha.
> 
> I won't be getting a GSD until I'm settled down, and would only be a second dog, at least.


Yeah, once you get yourself settled in, and the first dog trained, another dog is great. In fact, having a fully trained, confident adult around can really be helpful with a new rescue or puppy. You'll even see on petfinder descriptions that say, "would prefer that adopter has a confident dog to help [dog] learn the ropes." You don't have to wait 10 years, lol, but 3 or 4 years would be great.

Weims are so hard to describe. Like I said, I really like them a lot, but they are not for everyone. Intelligence is one of those things people always want in a dog, but it's as much a curse as a blessing. My last dog was extremely intelligent, my current dog is really stupid. I'd recommend stupid to most people, to be honest. It's much easier to handle. You can't say that to be people, though, they get offended. (Labs are not stupid, not why I recommended them.)

As for treadmills, they're okay. I guess. Most of the advantages of going outside aren't the exercise. It's the socialization, the sights, the smells, the sounds, the new stuff to experience. I'd recommend games and training sessions over treadmills any day, unless the weather is so bad and for such an extended period of time that the dog is likely to get deconditioned.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

Okay thanks! I really appreciate the help!

Last thing, for now lol, is private training for a dog like a GSP better than group? I know that groups often cheaper, but I don't want to skimp out on essential training if private is really better.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

You might also want to look at some of the other pointers. I prefer English pointers to GSP's because in my experience they have softer temperament. GSP's can be loud and insistent and a bit high strung . . . the sort of dog that bothers the neighbors with vocalizations when you go out. IMO (very prejudiced) nothing beats a Lab.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Akamichi said:


> Okay thanks! I really appreciate the help!
> 
> Last thing, for now lol, is private training for a dog like a GSP better than group? I know that groups often cheaper, but I don't want to skimp out on essential training if private is really better.


Depends entirely on the trainer. I think a good trainer with a SMALL group is best for a beginner. But I've been to group classes where you have trouble hearing the trainer, and you don't ever seem to get personal attention. That you don't want.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

sandgrubber said:


> You might also want to look at some of the other pointers. I prefer English pointers to GSP's because in my experience they have softer temperament. GSP's can be loud and insistent and a bit high strung . . . the sort of dog that bothers the neighbors with vocalizations when you go out. IMO (very prejudiced) nothing beats a Lab.





sandgrubber said:


> Depends entirely on the trainer. I think a good trainer with a SMALL group is best for a beginner. But I've been to group classes where you have trouble hearing the trainer, and you don't ever seem to get personal attention. That you don't want.


Thanks for the reply! 

Are the English pointers just as affectionate? I remember when I was volunteering at a shelter a few years back a person told me that they don't really like EPs since they're not as affectionate or protective than other dogs. From what I heard about GSPs, they seem to be more affectionate tho. Over vocalizing (especially when I'm out of the house) can cause problems so I'd like to try to train that out or work around it in a sense.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

*German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*

Grew up with GSP and pointer. Now own labs. Everyone has pretty much said what I would say, Gsp are a lot harder to have offleash than my labs in my experience. What elrohwen said about distance and orbiting. Have owned both and know a ton about lab breeders so could answer any questions if you have them. Know less about GSP breeders but I do know who I would go to if I was to get another one.

(Our "English" pointer (just the akc "pointer" was a lot more stable than GSP. I would prob lean towards a pointer over a GSP for a first time owner in general.)


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*



Rescued said:


> Grew up with GSP and pointer. Now own labs. Everyone has pretty much said what I would say, Gsp are a lot harder to have offleash than my labs in my experience. What elrohwen said about distance and orbiting. Have owned both and know a ton about lab breeders so could answer any questions if you have them. Know less about GSP breeders but I do know who I would go to if I was to get another one.
> 
> (Our "English" pointer (just the akc "pointer" was a lot more stable than GSP. I would prob lean towards a pointer over a GSP for a first time owner in general.)


Does the pointer enjoy the owners company a lot (would they seek to be near their owner whenever they're around?)? And do they have a separation anxiety? So far that's been a big problem for me, hearing about separation anxiety and all since I know I won't be able to take my dog to work. Are pointers easier off the leash that GSPs or are they generally the same? 

I won't be getting any dogs for at least a couple years, but I'd love to hear about some good pointer, GSP and Lab breeders if possible! I'll message you!


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*

This is just my two cents after reading your original post. You said you wanted a dog who was loyal and not one that is most likely to run off and leave you. I can say I had a GSP female all through my kid years and she was defiantly a runner. She was a hunting dog yea but she defiantly didn't wanna stay with you. I think from reading Vizlas seem more fitting of your description. German shepherd would be another one that defiantly fits the loyalty card ten fold but like others on here have said I think they can easily be the worst to deal with and "ruin" if you don't know what your doing. They can be highly aggressive towards people and other dogs if not properly socialized so if you do get one of those your just gonna have to make the commitment to socialize like crazy. I have a Bulgarian Shepherd puppy and they are giant livestock guardian dogs. Being social isn't their game they were bred to protect and be wary of everything and everyone. But since he was 8 weeks old he's been in puppy classes up until he was 20 weeks. After that we basically go to the dog park every day. He loves all dogs all people. He doesn't know what a stranger is and he doesn't try to dominate dogs either. He's very much a big baby who shys away from any growl presented to him. Even when he triples the other dogs size lol. In general every German Shep I've seen come to the dog park they tend to be very dominant or lean towards that and to me that's not really ok because say if they messed with the wrong dog they could potentially get really hurt. Especially a growing puppy that's trying to be dominant isn't good. I'd rather have one like mine that is defiantly not a fighter. Physically he could very well be especially when he's going to weigh 140 pounds but I haven't raised him like that. I just say this because I seen a 150 plus St. Bernard target and tear up a shepherd mix last week because he obviously wasn't socialized properly and the shepherd obviously picked the wrong battle. On another note my cousin has a weim and I'm not really a huge fan of her. They can be kinda stubborn and I don't think the Greater Swiss mountain dog has enough energy for what your doing. So to me I feel like a Vizsla is perfect.... Labs I won't comment on because I think half the time you don't know what your getting. I've seen really laid back ones and I've seen crazy hyper out of control ones so I don't really have an opinion on whether one of those would fit for you or not. Good luck though!!! It's defiantly like having a baby!! Be prepared!!! Lol


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*

Thanks for the reply! Haha, I'm hoping they will also be like a companion/best friend as well. I'll be well prepared before I get one! (Hoping so haha)

Also, what training regiment would be good? I was reading around and it said to start training at 6 months at age, or should this be sooner? Someone also said that from 6-9 months is good for group training sessions and then from 12-18 months sessions with a private trainer would be good. Does this mean you take a break from for the three months in between this time to work with your dog to teach what they went over in the class and help it sink in before more training?


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*

I took Jace to Mutt School and they recommend puppy classes starting at 8 weeks and that's exactly what I did. Yea I was skeptical because of health risks but the benefits greatly out weight the risk in my opinion. I believe they say 8 - 20 weeks is the most crucial time for socialization and learning. I really think they are right because Jace has turned out the complete opposite of what he's supposed to be lol and that's fine really because he's just my companion not guarding sheep. I think the age at which training/socialization should be started has been debated on here and I think most will agree with me that the risk out weighs the benefit. Jace was born outside so he had never been inside a house or on carpet or anything. He was terrified of everything and he was SO scared the first day of puppy class. But in a matter of visits he completely blossomed! Lol he loved going to class!


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*



Zilla said:


> I took Jace to Mutt School and they recommend puppy classes starting at 8 weeks and that's exactly what I did. Yea I was skeptical because of health risks but the benefits greatly out weight the risk in my opinion. I believe they say 8 - 20 weeks is the most crucial time for socialization and learning. I really think they are right because Jace has turned out the complete opposite of what he's supposed to be lol and that's fine really because he's just my companion not guarding sheep. I think the age at which training/socialization should be started has been debated on here and I think most will agree with me that the risk out weighs the benefit. Jace was born outside so he had never been inside a house or on carpet or anything. He was terrified of everything and he was SO scared the first day of puppy class. But in a matter of visits he completely blossomed! Lol he loved going to class!


Do you regularly go throughout the 8-20 week time period? How often do you go? And how fast do they learn commands such a sit, stay, return, quiet, speak, etc.? Sorry I'm asking so many questions, I just want to make sure I know what to do and be up to pace and all.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*

And is it possible to train out separation anxiety (or most of it)? Just curious!


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*

Yes they need to go the whole time. I went twice a week. It really depends on where your taking the class from. I wouldn't recommend a place like petco or petsmart. To many dogs walk through there. I'd recommend an actual company like I did mine from. As far as learning pace it really depends on the dog you get. German Shepherd is by far the easiest you will ever train. Jace is another shepherd breed and he's sharp as a tack. I would imagine with what I've read about Vizlas they would be similar. My German pointer was stubborn growing up. That's the other thing I wasn't a fan of along with the running off. Like I said if you want a dog glued to you as far as loyalty goes a shepherd is defiantly it. However I will say.... There's a younger boy that works at my Walmart here in town and he has a emotional support dog or I'm guessing that's what it is. It's a Vizsla and he stays right with that boy at all times. Isn't rowdy isnt causing trouble or nothing. I always find that amazing since they are normally energetic dogs. 
Separation anxiety isnt gonna happen with all dogs and if it does it is trainable to fix. There's also ways to prevent it that you can read about.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*



Zilla said:


> Yes they need to go the whole time. I went twice a week. It really depends on where your taking the class from. I wouldn't recommend a place like petco or petsmart. To many dogs walk through there. I'd recommend an actual company like I did mine from. As far as learning pace it really depends on the dog you get. German Shepherd is by far the easiest you will ever train. Jace is another shepherd breed and he's sharp as a tack. I would imagine with what I've read about Vizlas they would be similar. My German pointer was stubborn growing up. That's the other thing I wasn't a fan of along with the running off. Like I said if you want a dog glued to you as far as loyalty goes a shepherd is defiantly it. However I will say.... There's a younger boy that works at my Walmart here in town and he has a emotional support dog or I'm guessing that's what it is. It's a Vizsla and he stays right with that boy at all times. Isn't rowdy isnt causing trouble or nothing. I always find that amazing since they are normally energetic dogs.
> Separation anxiety isnt gonna happen with all dogs and if it does it is trainable to fix. There's also ways to prevent it that you can read about.


Gotcha, was it a large, small or private trainer? Or do you go to a group one to learn basics but then go to private after for more complex? And if you don't mind me asking, how expensive was it? I'm actually leaning more towards a lab for a first dog tbh, so I'm hoping they're a more easy to train breed. And I'll def. read up on it, thanks!


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## gingerwrinklepup (May 19, 2015)

Vizsla Owner here!

We have a saying, Vizsla bitches will love you, males will be IN love with you. I think you really have to LOVE dogs to own them, not just like them or want them as a hiking partner, they're not dogs where you can expect them to be like furniture in the house and that's true for all dogs in the pointer group.

However I have to say all the problems that are associated with the breed are down to them being PRONE to them, not they as a breed necessarily have them if raised with proper management.

Take the famous off switch for example. A lot of people get these dogs, here they need lots of exercise and that's exactly what they do. They exercise these dogs into the ground as puppies to get them to settle, obviously while young it doesn't take long but as they get older these dogs their exercise requirement becomes "I can go all day haha" so exercising is just not practical to making them settle. Pair this with the fact they're slow maturing so shouldn't be exercised thoroughly until 18-24 months and you kind of have a lose-lose situation. You either over exercise your dog, bringing in joint problems or you under exercise them and they become unbearable in the house.

Don't worry there's an easy cure and that's dedicating 80% of the dogs time to training in the first 18 months. You'll have a much easier time if you do this... It'll build a very strong relationship with your dog which means they're less likely to have bad recall, be over social with dogs, over reactive and unmanageable in the house, basically any problem you can think of with pointers is down to under training. Not to mention mental stimulation is far more exhausting than physical. 3 hours physical exercise will get my dog laying down straight in the boot of the car on the way home. 40 minutes of walking and 20 minutes of impulse control (Just watching dogs/horses/people pass) and he's flat out. It's amazing and at the same time you're training to not react to the world meaning recall will be a lot better and their threshold will be a lot higher.

I think the biggest problem for yourself is the first 18 months when getting a puppy because you won't be able to do your usual hikes and if you're working separation anxiety will become a problem unless you can afford to send them to doggy day care or have a walker come in during the day.

I lived alone and worked full time with a Vizsla puppy for 6 months because of personal circumstances and literally it was HELL. Waking up early to walk him, going to work and doing that flat out and then coming home and having those wide eyes expecting more from you is just too much for one person to handle. I LOVE dogs and it was too much for even me. I think the worst part is you'll be so tired you'll get frustrated with bad behaviors easier and it won't be a fun time like it should be.

They're great dogs, so beautiful but they're not for everyone that's for sure.

If you have any questions then feel free to ask


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*



Akamichi said:


> Gotcha, was it a large, small or private trainer? Or do you go to a group one to learn basics but then go to private after for more complex? And if you don't mind me asking, how expensive was it? I'm actually leaning more towards a lab for a first dog tbh, so I'm hoping they're a more easy to train breed. And I'll def. read up on it, thanks!


Defiantly group puppy classes for first time! Starts the socialization process. I've only took him to puppy classes and I've continued his training on my own. The only way I might take another is if I wanna go get his Canine Good Citizen. Mutt school was an actual company and all they do is train dogs. Smaller maybe about 3 different trainers. Depends on your area but I only paid 100 dollars for puppy classes twice a week from 8 weeks old to 20 weeks. Most will only allow you to come for 6-7 weeks of classes but mutt school emphasized on that critical socialization period so they let puppies come that long. If your getting a lab make sure you know what your getting!! I've seen some very unruly labs. Lol there's a lab puppy that comes to the dog park and plays with Jace. His name is Gunner and you can clearly tell he was gotten from an exceptional breeder. Even as a puppy he's pretty laid back and he seems physically put together right.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*



gingerwrinklepup said:


> Vizsla Owner here!
> 
> We have a saying, Vizsla bitches will love you, males will be IN love with you. I think you really have to LOVE dogs to own them, not just like them or want them as a hiking partner, they're not dogs where you can expect them to be like furniture in the house and that's true for all dogs in the pointer group.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply!

And to be completely honest, I kind of want a dog that'll make me get up earlier to walk them and then walk them again in the evening. It'll make me want to do it even when I'm unmotivated haha. However, since they do have more of the separation anxiety, I think I'll wait for them until I had at least one dog. This will make it easier as I would have learned all the training that would be needed to help raise them properly and such. I don't think I'd be able to send them to doggy day care or have a walker come in (maybe a walker, but slight chance). There wasn't any way you could help them get rid of the SA otherwise?

Thanks again and I will!



Zilla said:


> Defiantly group puppy classes for first time! Starts the socialization process. I've only took him to puppy classes and I've continued his training on my own. The only way I might take another is if I wanna go get his Canine Good Citizen. Mutt school was an actual company and all they do is train dogs. Smaller maybe about 3 different trainers. Depends on your area but I only paid 100 dollars for puppy classes twice a week from 8 weeks old to 20 weeks. Most will only allow you to come for 6-7 weeks of classes but mutt school emphasized on that critical socialization period so they let puppies come that long. If your getting a lab make sure you know what your getting!! I've seen some very unruly labs. Lol there's a lab puppy that comes to the dog park and plays with Jace. His name is Gunner and you can clearly tell he was gotten from an exceptional breeder. Even as a puppy he's pretty laid back and he seems physically put together right.


Okay gotcha! I'll make sure to find a good trainer. And it was $100 for the 12 weeks? That's pretty cheap. I agree with you on the unruly park, one of my friends had a black lab that she said was 'calm' but she literally knocked down everyone she saw which was kinda terrifying since she did that to a pretty old lady too. 

I'll try to make sure they're the best that I can get, thanks!


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## sondra (May 19, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*

My boyfriend's sister has a very cute GSP, Wesson.
He was pointing at birds in the front lawn last night and it was truly amazing to see! 
BUT- he is a handful! Almost all GSP's are huge whiners. Wesson will whine for hours at a time. And many of the other ones i've met do this too. He's two years old and shows no signs of stopping. 
He is also spoiled- he can't lay down on the ground and needs a couch or human bed to lay down on. But these just may be some of his quirks! 
Since you are really active, a GSP seems like an excellent fit. Not as dependent as the vizsla. 
And just to get you thinking, my beagle has shown great stamina in her two years of life. We hiked uo a mountain for seven miles and when we got home, she needed another walk! 
She was only a year old when we did that, but she is still the fastest one at the dog park! She settles down if we are settled but as soon as we get up to go she's ready.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*



sondra said:


> My boyfriend's sister has a very cute GSP, Wesson.
> He was pointing at birds in the front lawn last night and it was truly amazing to see!
> BUT- he is a handful! Almost all GSP's are huge whiners. Wesson will whine for hours at a time. And many of the other ones i've met do this too. He's two years old and shows no signs of stopping.
> He is also spoiled- he can't lay down on the ground and needs a couch or human bed to lay down on. But these just may be some of his quirks!
> ...


Thanks for the reply! Ugh, you're making me want a GSP even more even though I know that they might not be the best choice for an apartment life (since they do whine a lot and such). I'm just scared that they will destroy something while I'm gone, so I'm thinking I'll get one once I get a property of my own. I would feel really bad leaving them to go to work too knowing that they would whine the entire time also. I know I keep on saying this, but I hope it can be corrected with training and all.

And wow, that must have been pretty amazing! I'd love a friend who could motivate me on mt off days and that I would have to strive to compete with energy wise.


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## sondra (May 19, 2015)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*

DEFINITELY not an apartment dog! LOL
Whining is difficult to correct with training. They have to grow out of it. 
She leaves Wesson home all day. First he was crated, now hes not. 
They mostly whine when they are bored.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

*Re: German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*



Akamichi said:


> Thanks for the reply! Ugh, you're making me want a GSP even more even though I know that they might not be the best choice for an apartment life (since they do whine a lot and such). I'm just scared that they will destroy something while I'm gone, so I'm thinking I'll get one once I get a property of my own. I would feel really bad leaving them to go to work too knowing that they would whine the entire time also. I know I keep on saying this, but I hope it can be corrected with training and all.
> 
> And wow, that must have been pretty amazing! I'd love a friend who could motivate me on mt off days and that I would have to strive to compete with energy wise.


Not to burst your bubble but I don't think your gonna make it through the puppy stage without them destroying something while your not around at least once lol I mean really I'm not kidding it's like a child. Only with big teeth haha I've heard of labs being the worst at that.... though that's every dog not being exercised enough. Unless you want a dog like Jace your really not gonna avoid that and Jace isn't gonna run 3 miles lol. The most he's ever destroyed is a piece of paper he got a hold of... Other than that he really hasn't done much but that's because again his breed is extremely mellow to the norm. Touching on the separation anxiety thing again that really can be ANY breed. Labs vizslas sheps anything. You really just need to read up on how to prevent it.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

Nova is our suspected Lab/GSP mix. Here are a few words to describe her:

-very active - she needs off-leash activity every day. She does settle well in the house and can go a day or so without doing much, but after that, she gets very...pestery. Very in-your-face. Very annoying, haha. I wouldn't put her anywhere near a Vizsla, though....they take high-energy to another level, imo.

-sheds a lot - I vacuum every day and my floor is still covered in Nova's fur.

-smart as a whip and very biddable.

-soft - she takes things to heart and shuts down easy.

-velcro- like, must be physically touching someone 90% of the time velcro. She follows me or SO all over the house. She does not have any sort of separation anxiety, though. We both work full-time, and she is fine so long as she gets lots of attention before and after work. Her favorite position when snuggling is to be positioned right between SO and I so that she can be laying on top of both of us.

-great recall- I didn't even really work to train it with her, so I was very lucky. She is a natural orbiter.

I know you are very worried about separation anxiety, which is why I'll suggest this...what about an adult rescue? Check out some rescue groups for the breeds you are interested in. That way you can skip the puppy stage and get to the running/hiking/etc. right away, know whether or not the dog has separation anxiety, and know the energy level of that particular dog so it matches up with what you want.


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## gingerwrinklepup (May 19, 2015)

RE: separation anxiety, it's mostly down to boredom, under stimulated or just fear of the owner not returning soon.
I'd say as the only person living in the house you're more prone to SA because the dog relies on you for everything meaning anything positive generally comes from being around a single person making them more reliant on your presence.
I walked my Vizsla for an hour in the morning, came home for my hour lunch and then exercised when home and he still got SA anxiety because I lived alone and there's only so many minutes a kong will keep them busy. Maybe it's because he's a V but I expect the same to happen to any high energy, loving breeder like the other pointers.

They're gorgeous dogs but I think they're better suited to family environments due to how much of a burden their needs are for one person.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm -hopefully- going to get a lab puppy in 2 1/2 - 3 years so until then I'll be reading up much more.

I do have one question tho for how long do you not give a puppy any freedom (by freedom I mean letting it wander around the house while it's not potty trained) or until what age? I was thinking if you get them around 7-8 weeks of age, you can crate train them for 2 or so months after that to get housebroken. Would this work or is it still a too young age to do so?


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

And also, I know the puppy should have their dew claws removed, two vaccinations, be de-wormed and their parents should have certifications by the OFA and CERF. However, I was looking at a site called 'puppyfinder' and I realized that not all dogs will have their parents certified with OFA and CERF. Would this be a big problem?


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## yv0nne (Feb 21, 2015)

I only half read everything but I own a high energy Vizsla, even by Vizsla standards. Off leash hikes& half-marathon training + mental stimulation = a dog not quite exhausted but content to snuggle& chew.

looks like you're going in the Lab direction but figured I'd throw in just how high energy the red mongrels can be!


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

I'd take dew claw removal OFF the list. There is much debate about this, but dogs do use their dew claws, and torn dew claws are not that common. Have a look at
https://vimeo.com/39124130
There are excellent breeders who leave dew claws on...and excellent breeders who routinely have them off before the pup is 3 days old.
If you get the pup at 8 weeks, I would expect only one vaccination, and recommend following your vet's advice about second and third jabs. 
OFA and CERF are good, and reduce the risk of Hip, elbow and eye problems, though many many untested Labs turn out to be fine. (I have a 17 yr old Lab next door who came from un-tested parents. She's still going strong.) I wouldn't worry less about CERF than OFA. The genetic factors they look for in CERF are pretty uncommon in Labs. As a breeder, I find CERF a PITA, cause you're supposed to do an eye exam every year, and they always seem to come up negative. A clear CERF exam doesn't guarantee the dog won't come down with eye problems next year. A fail doesn't necessarily mean a hereditary problem. I would look for genetic testing for PRA. EIC testing is probably worth looking for too if you get a Lab, though not a deal breaker. Also ask about epilepsy, cancer, 
There are differing opinions about when you can start leaving a pup free in the house. I do it from day one, but I have second hand furniture and tile floors, and leave things pretty much puppy proofed. I haven't had serious problems . . . the odd table or chair leg chewed, some toilet paper destroyed, an occasional trash can dumped over and garbage scattered. Lab pups toilet train quite rapidly, often in the first week or two the breeder encouraged them to poop away from the core of their puppy confines and you do a positive based toilet training very consistently.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

Thanks for the replies!

@sandgrubber Thanks for the informative post! Since you are a breeder, would you be offended if someone contacted you saying they would like to purchase a puppy from you in a few years (I contacted a breeder expressing interest that I'd like to own one of their puppies by 2018 and asked the normal price, and when to put down the deposit)? Would that be over stepping boundaries? I just wanted to strike up a conversation with them as a first time dog owner to show that I am committed and I am doing my research before hand.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

It's totally fine to talk to breeders now even though you're not looking for a puppy for a couple years. I would just ask them about the breed, ask about their breeding plans. Keep in mind that some might not know what they will be breeding 3 years from now, so they probably won't be able to provide specifics. And don't worry too much about price just yet. Some breeders don't like when people jump in and ask about price right off the bat. Also, most breeders (that I know at least) do not do deposits, at least not until the litter is on the ground and you've committed to a puppy.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> It's totally fine to talk to breeders now even though you're not looking for a puppy for a couple years. I would just ask them about the breed, ask about their breeding plans. Keep in mind that some might not know what they will be breeding 3 years from now, so they probably won't be able to provide specifics. And don't worry too much about price just yet. Some breeders don't like when people jump in and ask about price right off the bat. Also, most breeders (that I know at least) do not do deposits, at least not until the litter is on the ground and you've committed to a puppy.


Okay thanks! I'll try contacting the other breeder I'm interested in as well! This time, I'll make sure not to ask about the price, I hope the other breeder isn't offended/put off by me asking that aha.

I wish there was like a skip button so I can go into the future and get the puppy already haha


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> Okay thanks! I'll try contacting the other breeder I'm interested in as well! This time, I'll make sure not to ask about the price, I hope the other breeder isn't offended/put off by me asking that aha.
> 
> I wish there was like a skip button so I can go into the future and get the puppy already haha


I personally think breeders should be open about price up front, but some get offended if your email sounds too much like "Hi, I like your puppies. How much?" I would just wait until maybe the second email after you've had some conversation and established that you are interested.

Also, price might change in 3 years, so they might not be able to give you a final price right now. They should give you a range though.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> I personally think breeders should be open about price up front, but some get offended if your email sounds too much like "Hi, I like your puppies. How much?" I would just wait until maybe the second email after you've had some conversation and established that you are interested.
> 
> Also, price might change in 3 years, so they might not be able to give you a final price right now. They should give you a range though.


I would like that as well, however some don't put the price on their page and I don't mean to sound stingy or cheap when asking about it, I just don't want to commit into buying something I won't be able to afford. And I didn't ask it like that haha, I was just saying how I expressed interest and was thinking about getting a puppy within the early to summer of 2018 year and was wondering if all their dogs are within the $900 range or would some be more expensive (due to their color or something). This breeder did list their price but it said it varies from time to time, so I just wanted to make sure.

I'll make sure the next breeder I contact I won't jump right into it like I did before. Hopefully the breeder isn't too turned off by my actions.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> I would like that as well, however some don't put the price on their page and I don't mean to sound stingy or cheap when asking about it, I just don't want to commit into buying something I won't be able to afford. And I didn't ask it like that haha, I was just saying how I expressed interest and was thinking about getting a puppy within the early to summer of 2018 year and was wondering if all their dogs are within the $900 range or would some be more expensive (due to their color or something). This breeder did list their price but it said it varies from time to time, so I just wanted to make sure.
> 
> I'll make sure the next breeder I contact I won't jump right into it like I did before. Hopefully the breeder isn't too turned off by my actions.


You have a couple years, so don't worry about committing to anything just yet. No breeder should ask you to fully commit to a litter until it's born, so you have plenty of time to find out the price.

I would also avoid someone who prices by color, especially for labs who come in very standard colors.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> You have a couple years, so don't worry about committing to anything just yet. No breeder should ask you to fully commit to a litter until it's born, so you have plenty of time to find out the price.
> 
> I would also avoid someone who prices by color, especially for labs who come in very standard colors.


Okay! Thanks for the help!

Would it also be rude to ask about what kind of certifications their dogs have and such?

Since I'm interested in either a Chocolate lab or a 'Fox Red' lab, I've seen some breeders list them as a bit more expensive. Not so much the Choc lab, but the 'Fox Red' lab is sometimes listed within the $1000s. Not saying that is a bad price to ask for, but as of now I'm looking for a slightly lower price because I'd like to save as much money as I can upfront for the 'emergency' vet visits. (Fingers crossed it won't happen tho!)


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> Okay! Thanks for the help!
> 
> Would it also be rude to ask about what kind of certifications their dogs have and such?
> 
> Since I'm interested in either a Chocolate lab or a 'Fox Red' lab, I've seen some breeders list them as a bit more expensive. Not so much the Choc lab, but the 'Fox Red' lab is sometimes listed within the $1000s. Not saying that is a bad price to ask for, but as of now I'm looking for a slightly lower price because I'd like to save as much money as I can upfront for the 'emergency' vet visits. (Fingers crossed it won't happen tho!)


It's great to ask for what health clearances they do. A good breeder will be impressed that you asked.

The red fox labs are a red flag to me. The AKC only recognizes three colors, and the red fox is just a shade of yellow. The people breeding specifically for this color and nothing else are usually not the best breeders. Charging more for this color is also a red flag. Not that you can't find people who have slightly darker dogs, but I would prioritize breeders who health test and do something with their dogs (possibly hunting/field work since it seems like you want a higher energy pup) over color alone.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> It's great to ask for what health clearances they do. A good breeder will be impressed that you asked.
> 
> The red fox labs are a red flag to me. The AKC only recognizes three colors, and the red fox is just a shade of yellow. The people breeding specifically for this color and nothing else are usually not the best breeders. Charging more for this color is also a red flag. Not that you can't find people who have slightly darker dogs, but I would prioritize breeders who health test and do something with their dogs (possibly hunting/field work since it seems like you want a higher energy pup) over color alone.


I'll do that then!

Gotcha, I'll steer clear from breeders like that then. Is it usually more expensive for a dog if their parents have more certifications, or is it more about the bloodlines? 

Thanks for the help again!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Akamichi said:


> I'll do that then!
> 
> Gotcha, I'll steer clear from breeders like that then. Is it usually more expensive for a dog if their parents have more certifications, or is it more about the bloodlines?
> 
> Thanks for the help again!


Breeders who do the full recommended health screening will often charge more because it's not cheap to do those tests (I spent hundreds of dollars to get my dog tested). The people selling dogs super cheap are probably not doing the health tests or proving their dogs in any way. Dogs from hunting lines are often cheaper than dogs from show lines as well.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Breeders who do the full recommended health screening will often charge more because it's not cheap to do those tests (I spent hundreds of dollars to get my dog tested). The people selling dogs super cheap are probably not doing the health tests or proving their dogs in any way. Dogs from hunting lines are often cheaper than dogs from show lines as well.


Gotcha, thanks!

I'll try contacting some breeders who specialize in hunting, altho I heard they can be a bit snarky or unwilling to sell to those who don't want to use their dogs for hunting.

Does it matter if I get a male or female lab? By that I mean, will a male create more trouble than a female, be harder to work with, etc.


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

*German shorthaired pointer good for a first time dog owner? (Among other ques...*



Akamichi said:


> Gotcha, thanks!
> 
> I'll try contacting some breeders who specialize in hunting, altho I heard they can be a bit snarky or unwilling to sell to those who don't want to use their dogs for hunting.
> 
> Does it matter if I get a male or female lab? By that I mean, will a male create more trouble than a female, be harder to work with, etc.


Sex is personal preference, there aren't any hard and fast rules about personality that are applicable to the sexes (at least in labs). Any breeder you go with should have their breeding dogs listed on the offa.com database- at minimum they should have hips, elbows, and cerf for eyes. Most lab breeders test for EIC as well now. The database is a good start and then from there you can decide on a breeder (once you know they're health testing.)

important to look more into what type of lab you want to go with as well- there can be a lot of differences between the bench and field types.


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## sandgrubber (May 21, 2014)

Akamichi said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> @sandgrubber Thanks for the informative post! Since you are a breeder, would you be offended if someone contacted you saying they would like to purchase a puppy from you in a few years (I contacted a breeder expressing interest that I'd like to own one of their puppies by 2018 and asked the normal price, and when to put down the deposit)? Would that be over stepping boundaries? I just wanted to strike up a conversation with them as a first time dog owner to show that I am committed and I am doing my research before hand.


 I'm no longer a breeder. I bred Labs when I lived in Western Australia 'cause there were loads of people wanting well bred Labs. Here it's much harder to place pups. Also, the girls I brought with me from Oz didn't work out as brood bitches, and I didn't have it to start over.
But, no, I would not have been offended, though I might not have been able to promise years in advance. Every breeder draws their own lines. I think most consider it bad form to take deposits before the pups are born. Some love to talk to puppy buyers, some are burned out having done so much of it. Some (particularly show and competitive field sports breeders) plan litters years in advance. More casual 'family-oriented' breeders go hunting for 'Mr Right' stud dog when their girl comes on season. 
I'd say ask lots of questions about temperament. Sire and dam. Define what you're looking for and communicate that to the breeder. If you work with an experienced breeder, let them choose the pup for you; they will have watched the pups for weeks and have a good sense of which are mellow, which active, etc.. 
Take advantage of the variation in the breed and don't feel you have to get a show dog or a hunter. You pay top dollar if you insist on perfect topline, bottomline, ear set, tail set, eye color, head shape etc.. You can probably find someone whose Labs are a bit pointer-like if you keep looking . . . ie., lankier than most show labs with thin undercoat (=less shedding). If you can find someone whose pups get placed with Guide Dogs, you're likely to get solid temperament, good intelligence, and not so tank-like as some show Labs.
btw. don't send long emails. Phone, or send a short email saying you'd like to talk with them. Some puppy buyers write out a long essay about what they're looking for and send it to every breeder they can find. This is a big time waster from the breeder's perspective.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

Thanks for the replies everyone! @sandgrubber thanks, I'll be sure to do that!

Just another question, I ran into a very nice English Setter, and Irish Red & White Setter today while out on a walk and was wondering if these dogs would make good apartment dogs (Along with Brittany's)? If taken out on walks, or hikes, regularly? Could they be relatively trained and housebroken easily? Do they deal with separation anxiety fairly well?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

House breaking isn't really a breed thing. Most dogs are not that hard to house break if you just put in the work. I wouldn't worry about that at all when looking at breeds.

Separation anxiety depends on the individual and the lines, but sporting breeds tend to be more prone to it than more independent breeds just by nature. They want to be near their people, so a dog who is naturally anxious will become anxious when its people leave. A dog who isn't naturally anxious should be fine. 

Setters vary quite a bit depending on line, as there are hunting lines and show bred lines. Brittanies don't have a breed split so all dogs are really hunting lines, and they can be really really high energy. Pretty much any dog is fine in an apartment with the right exercise and training, but it's really hard to know if you'll be able to provide that exercise if you've never had a dog before. I would meet lots of dogs of the breeds you're interested in, and steer away from the super high energy breeds or lines.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> House breaking isn't really a breed thing. Most dogs are not that hard to house break if you just put in the work. I wouldn't worry about that at all when looking at breeds.
> 
> Separation anxiety depends on the individual and the lines, but sporting breeds tend to be more prone to it than more independent breeds just by nature. They want to be near their people, so a dog who is naturally anxious will become anxious when its people leave. A dog who isn't naturally anxious should be fine.
> 
> Setters vary quite a bit depending on line, as there are hunting lines and show bred lines. Brittanies don't have a breed split so all dogs are really hunting lines, and they can be really really high energy. Pretty much any dog is fine in an apartment with the right exercise and training, but it's really hard to know if you'll be able to provide that exercise if you've never had a dog before. I would meet lots of dogs of the breeds you're interested in, and steer away from the super high energy breeds or lines.


Gotcha!

Is it usually something that can be 'bred' out? Sounds like a silly question, but when I was on another forum people seem said that a dogs parents that don't really bark usually will result in a puppy that won't bark as much.

I'll stay away from the Brittany then, didn't know that. Are the other dogs that I mentioned high energy breeds? I'm pretty sure I'd be able to go out and about with the dogs (walking or hiking) since I am generally a higher energy individual and I don't see myself breaking out of my routine anytime soon haha. But I'll keep that in mind as grad school can definitely tweak that!

Thanks!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

The problem with separation anxiety is that in a lot of cases (Where it's more common in a breed) it's related to other traits that people want, and getting rid of separation anxiety while maintaining a breed that wants to be crazy close to you and have your input into things would be hard. Not that it doesn't crop up in other breeds (I don't know a single breed where some dog or another hasn't had separation anxiety) but when your'e dealing with a breed where part of their personality is wanting to be devoted and close to you, you're going to have a hard time removing separation anxiety entirely. 

And you're going to have a hard time finding a dog who wants to be close and 'loyal' but has no or low risk of losing it's crap when it's left along. NOt that the two are always related, they aren't - you can have a great dog who wants to be close and doesn't freak if you're gone - but on a BREED scale? You're probably not going to find one of those traits existing without the other.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Pretty much all of the breeds you're looking at are considered medium-high to high energy breeds. That's why I suggest you meet dogs of that breed, especially younger dogs. One who falls more medium energy is going to be easier for a first time dog owner than one who falls very high on the spectrum. Not that you can't deal with a really high energy dog, but for most people it's way more than they were expecting and can be overwhelming.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> The problem with separation anxiety is that in a lot of cases (Where it's more common in a breed) it's related to other traits that people want, and getting rid of separation anxiety while maintaining a breed that wants to be crazy close to you and have your input into things would be hard. Not that it doesn't crop up in other breeds (I don't know a single breed where some dog or another hasn't had separation anxiety) but when your'e dealing with a breed where part of their personality is wanting to be devoted and close to you, you're going to have a hard time removing separation anxiety entirely.
> 
> And you're going to have a hard time finding a dog who wants to be close and 'loyal' but has no or low risk of losing it's crap when it's left along. NOt that the two are always related, they aren't - you can have a great dog who wants to be close and doesn't freak if you're gone - but on a BREED scale? You're probably not going to find one of those traits existing without the other.


Right. All types of dogs can have anxiety, but a super independent breed who is anxious might be anxious about loud noises, or new people, but he probably won't have separation anxiety because he wasn't that dependent on you in the first place. Dogs who are velcro and really into their people are going to be more likely to show their anxiety as SA.

As far as getting a dog who is anxious, some of that is just random based on the individual, but some is definitely genetically linked to the parents, so don't buy a puppy from parents who are anxious.


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## Akamichi (Jun 5, 2015)

CptJack said:


> The problem with separation anxiety is that in a lot of cases (Where it's more common in a breed) it's related to other traits that people want, and getting rid of separation anxiety while maintaining a breed that wants to be crazy close to you and have your input into things would be hard. Not that it doesn't crop up in other breeds (I don't know a single breed where some dog or another hasn't had separation anxiety) but when your'e dealing with a breed where part of their personality is wanting to be devoted and close to you, you're going to have a hard time removing separation anxiety entirely.
> 
> And you're going to have a hard time finding a dog who wants to be close and 'loyal' but has no or low risk of losing it's crap when it's left along. NOt that the two are always related, they aren't - you can have a great dog who wants to be close and doesn't freak if you're gone - but on a BREED scale? You're probably not going to find one of those traits existing without the other.


Thanks for the reply!

That's what I was sort of thinking in my head, I'd have to give up some traits for others and such. 





elrohwen said:


> Pretty much all of the breeds you're looking at are considered medium-high to high energy breeds. That's why I suggest you meet dogs of that breed, especially younger dogs. One who falls more medium energy is going to be easier for a first time dog owner than one who falls very high on the spectrum. Not that you can't deal with a really high energy dog, but for most people it's way more than they were expecting and can be overwhelming.





elrohwen said:


> Right. All types of dogs can have anxiety, but a super independent breed who is anxious might be anxious about loud noises, or new people, but he probably won't have separation anxiety because he wasn't that dependent on you in the first place. Dogs who are velcro and really into their people are going to be more likely to show their anxiety as SA.
> 
> As far as getting a dog who is anxious, some of that is just random based on the individual, but some is definitely genetically linked to the parents, so don't buy a puppy from parents who are anxious.


Thanks for the post!

I've been trying to find a place where I can find younger dogs so I'd be able to interact with them, but no dice so far. I'll be contacting/looking into some of the clubs/associations so I can get some ideas on how they're really like and such and to see if there is anyone in my area who owns them.

I'm still more towards lab btw, I was just curious about the breeds that I mentioned so I just decided to ask haha.


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