# Breed Identity- How often do rescues get it wrong?



## Polywoggy

There's Something about Tatters. 
http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/19515452
I can't stop thinking about her, just something in her eyes. I was searching Wheaten Terriers when her profile came up. She is supposed to be a mix with Pointing Griffon. I know nothing of that particular breed so I Googled pics and info about temperment etc. Sounds like a great dog to me... 
EXCEPT- I do not understand her ears. Both Wheatons and Griffons have floppies, whereas Tatters has prick ears. To me, they actually look like the ears of a guardian-type breed. 
Do Rescues and shelters often misidentify a dog's breed and background?


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## Indigo

Yes. Lots and lots. Some people are really terrible and will just throw out the first breed name they know and think of... just look at some of the listings on Petfinder... I don't know how many times I've said "yeah right!" aloud.
Unless the person saying what breed mix it is saw the parents mate, and the parents were obvious purebreds, there's never any guarantee. If one or both parents are mixes, they could be anything! Sometimes litters can have multiple fathers as well (scandalous!). Even people who are really good at breed ID might get it wrong simply because genetics are weird. A dog that looks and acts like a certain mix can sometimes be something completely different. Sometimes really poorly bred purebreds can look like mixes.
...and those genetic tests are a scam.

Mixes are most likely to be composed of a common breed for the area. When making your best guess it can help to look at what kinds of dogs are turning up more frequently in your local shelter.

That doggie looks real dignified.


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## Binkalette

Yep. We guess wrong all the time, but that's because it is nothing but a guess. It's especially hard with dogs that are so mixed you can hardly identify a predominant breed ('cept Canardly! cause you Canardly tell what it is!). Look at my thread http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/95533-breed-guess-max.html and you'll see it can be hard!


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## GottaLuvMutts

Yes, all the time. Kit was supposed to be border collie X lab, but I was pretty sure that was wrong even when I got her.

I'm not sure why, but I'm actually seeing some herding breed in Tatter. Could explain the prick ears and those eyes.


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## TStafford

They get it wrong a lot. And like the other posters said, sometimes the dogs are just so mixed its really hard to tell. 

It only bothers me when I see a dog that is clearly one breed and the ycall it something else. I've seen a beautiful Pit called a purebred Boston Terrier, and a 40 lb full grown mastiff mixed called a pure DDB. Sometimes they fudge the breed to help adopt out the dog...which can end poorly if someone is getting something as different as Pitbull when they think they are getting a BT.


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## Willowy

Rescues are usually just guessing, our guesses are as good as theirs! I would call the above dog a German Wirehaired Pointer/German Shepherd Dog mix. She's lovely.


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## Northern_Inuit_Luv

Even breed specific rescues get it wrong...There have been a few times that we get dogs in that shelters swear up and down are malamute mixes, but they come to us and don't look or act a thing like a malamute...unfortunately, we only get people that apply for malamutes, so they have to keep that malamute mix label even if we doubt that there's malamute in them. Last year we had a very sweet golden mix, there might have been some northern breed mixed in, since she sort of had pointy ears...but there's no way she was malamute enough to pass as malamute. She actually got a home pretty fast because a family with kids came out and the kids fell instantly in love with her.

On the other hand, one of our board members pulled a husky from a shelter last November and we've had absolutely no one interested in adopting him...because people that apply with us want a malamute, not a husky. Sweet as can be and friendly with all dogs (being fostered by a doggie day care, actually), but because he's got more energy than our typical malamutes, no one has been interested. 

It's really hard when we get puppies in that we know are malamute mixes because mom is obviously a malamute, but all the puppies took after dad. If they don't find a home when they are cute and tiny, they tend to stick around for too long.


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## Indigo

Northern_Inuit_Luv said:


> On the other hand, one of our board members pulled a husky from a shelter last November and we've had absolutely no one interested in adopting him...because people that apply with us want a malamute, not a husky. Sweet as can be and friendly with all dogs (being fostered by a doggie day care, actually), but because he's got more energy than our typical malamutes, no one has been interested.
> It's really hard when we get puppies in that we know are malamute mixes because mom is obviously a malamute, but all the puppies took after dad. If they don't find a home when they are cute and tiny, they tend to stick around for too long.


Would it be possible to make friends with a husky rescue and make a courtesy post with them for the dog? You'd be advertising to the right crowd and it might be easier. Just a thought.


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## Northern_Inuit_Luv

We already are in contact with them...we have good working relationships with all of the northern breed rescues, but they are also as booked as we are...which is why we took him to begin with. It's just a bummer. We've had a few dogs longer than him, though, so we're working on them, first.

Problem is, everyone is applying for a dog friendly female...and we don't have that (well, besides one case that's going through heartworm treatment). We just have stubborn females and a ton of males. *sigh* it will all work out eventually. It's just a shame that we've had a lot of the same dogs around for a while. It's a slow time in the adoptions, but yet we are still being overwhelmed with dogs needing a place to be.


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## Polywoggy

That's what I feared. I would expect people working in Rescues would have more knowledge than that. I can see how honest mistakes are made- like in the case of Max, he is certainly cute but a real mystery. 
My next dog will likely be a rescue, shelter dog, or "we don't have time for him" in the classifieds type. In taking the time to research what sorts of dogs would be a good match, and being honest with myself about what I can provide... this is a little disappointing. 
I am no expert, but I also see GSD in Tatters- her ears and tail...








What I was searching for was a Wheaten. I have met a couple IRL that were left with a more natural coat and thought they were midsize GoldenDoodles. When I researched Wheatens, they were very appealing to me. Wheatens have a lot of the qualities that a GDoodle has, without having to pay $2500 or more for what really is a mutt. Tatters is very appealing to me, but I don't see Wheaten there at all and this is what came up in a Wheaten search. 
I know I would not be able to provide what a GSD mix needs. Poor Tatters has already been returned once. Perhaps that person expected something different, because she was labelled as such. I WISH I could provide what a GSD mix needs. She does have that dignified look, which is different from what I have had in a Golden, but I did live with a Wolf x Husky for 3 years and she also had that same quality which I enjoyed in a different way.
I do not know how soon after my Willow passes I will be ready... but when I am, I know now that I will have to be very careful. I will have all of you on this forum to ask for second opinions


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## brandiw

Sorry, but it is not really fair to knock rescues for not knowing what mix an unknown dog may be; it isn't always clear what the mix might be. I have seen mixed breeds out of known parentage that look nothing like mom or dad, and I would never have been able to come up with the breed mix if I didn't know it for certain. Besides some mutts are the offspring of other mutts, and then things really get mixed up. Rescues can only give their best guess.


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## Dakota Spirit

Polywoggy said:


> I would expect people working in Rescues would have more knowledge than that. I can see how honest mistakes are made- like in the case of Max, he is certainly cute but a real mystery.


You have to remember too, that working in a shelter doesn't mean the person is a breed expert. A lot of shelter workers are volunteers or even people who know DOGS but aren't extremely familiar with the hundreds of specific breeds avalible. Heck, I've even been around vets (and similar professions) that make some pretty poor breed guesses. There's a differance between knowing how to handle dogs and how to work with them, and being able to put diffrent characteristics together to make a mix-breed guess. 

That said, I do get upset when there are OBVIOUS mistakes being made. I've known some shelters to list a dog (Pit mix for example) as something more 'PC' in hopes of getting the dog adopted. That I think is not only dishonest but potentially very detrimental to the dog and it's overall success in a new home.


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## Binkalette

It is also unfair to say that the dog was returned because of it's breed label and that someone was expecting something different. I don't know about other shelters, but we most certainly don't place animals because somebody says "Ooh a lab! I love labs!" We ask them what they are looking for in a dog, energy level, we ask about their lifestyle, do they have kids, space, time to devote to training.. we don't just let them take off with an extremely hyperactive lab that isn't going to be a good fit just because they think they want a lab and "this is how labs are so this lab will be the same". What you EXPECT to get, and what you actually get are not usually going to be right on with a breed generalization.


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## Cracker

My first thought is WHP or Griffon and GSD. That pose, those eyes and the "look" of the second pic of Tatters screams GSD to me...

Cracker was listed as "bloodhound/Rottweiler" at the THS...not a great guess..lol


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## Northern_Inuit_Luv

I also think it's not very fair to accuse shelters of not knowing what mixes are...even if they look like a certain mix, doesn't mean that they are that type...remember that a lot of dog breeds were originally created out of different mixes. If you mix x-y-z together, they might look like x-z, or they might just look like g-h simply out of random luck of the dna draw. 

I wouldn't necessarily go off of a "I absolutely must get this breed because it's best for me"...with rescuing older dogs you have an enormous advantage because you can already see what their temperament and needs are. Simply by walking them and talking to the people who have been working with them, you can find out so much more than you would ever guess with a mixed breed puppy, even if you "know" what breeds went into the dog.


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## sassafras

Northern_Inuit_Luv said:


> I also think it's not very fair to accuse shelters of not knowing what mixes are...


Yea, everyone's just guessing in the genetics roulette game. I mean, look at the Pumpkin Pie puppies -- if none of us had seen Linney before we saw the puppies (especially at the age/size they're at now), would ANY of us have guessed Alaskan Husky mix?


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## Northern_Inuit_Luv

This:









And This:










Malamute mixes....Came from:














These two (sorry for bad picture, can't find anything bigger):











Came from:












Honestly, if any of these pups found their way into shelters, they would NEVER be classified as a malamute mix. And the shepherd looking ones are actually malinois puppies (we knew dad and where he came from), they would obviously be labeled GSD, but that's not exactly right...and who can blame anyone for making that mistake?


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## kafkabeetle

Yeah, Sydney was listed as an Australian shepherd/beagle mix...considering she's a skinny little 20 pound thing, I find that unlikely. But then, I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to guess her breed with any accuracy. She's just a muttily old mutt, and I assume quite a lot of other dogs in shelters are as well.  When you add to that that genetics can do crazy weird stuff (plenty of evidence of that in this thread) I don't think you can blame anyone for making a bad guess.


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## Willowy

Someone just recently posted pics of their puppy in the pictures forum. . .they know the mother was a Springer Spaniel. The pup looked like a Rott/Lab mix, or a Plott Hound (I guess, since she looked like RonE's Esther!). I would never in a million years have guessed the pup was half Springer. I also knew a huge black dog whose mother was a Golden Retriever, his father was a Lab/Rott mix. You never would have guessed he was half Golden. . .none of the pups in his litter looked like it. Half of them were black and tan, the others solid black, all were huge and blocky, none had longer fur. Dog genetics are funny.


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## Northern_Inuit_Luv

Willowy said:


> Dog genetics are funny.


people genetics can be just as weird sometimes, too  It may be able to be defined by science, but there's still some sort of magic in the randomness of it.


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## GottaLuvMutts

Is it just me, or is anyone else seeing some border collie in Tatter? 

I agree that it's hard to fault rescues for not knowing what mutts are. I only get angry when they purposely make a "mistake", identifying a pit or pit mix as another breed or breed mix just to get it adopted.


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## Willowy

> people genetics can be just as weird sometimes, too


True. . .I know a couple of kids whose grandfather was black. Both of them are as tow-headed and blue-eyed as any Scandanavian child. Yup, funny things, genes are.


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## Binkalette

Willowy said:


> True. . .I know a couple of kids whose grandfather was black. Both of them are as tow-headed and blue-eyed as any Scandanavian child. Yup, funny things, genes are.


My great grandfather was black too.  







[/IMG]
You see it, don't you?
And Zoey and Maggie are sisters.


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## Laurelin

I have a friend that is half black and you would never ever guess it. You can see it if you know in her features but she's got light brown hair and light skin and freckles.

Breed guessing is just that... guessing. Unless you really know for sure what breeds your dog was, it's always just a guess. I have no idea what Ada is. She looks like a yorkie mix with JRT and maybe hound to me, but who knows! Sometimes dogs look a lot like one breed and have none of that breed in them at all.


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## GottaLuvMutts

Laurelin said:


> Sometimes dogs look a lot like one breed and have none of that breed in them at all.


And a lot of times, behavior can tell you more than looks.


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## Laurelin

We had one litter of pups come in that looked 100% like english pointers. But they came in with mom and mom was a pit bull. I would never of guessed bully breed in them at all. We also had one litter that looked like aussies but mom was a husky. If they came in without mom, I'd never have thought they'd be half husky. 

All I know with Ada is she pretty much acts like a JRT.

ETA: and then there's the fact that even knowledgeable people don't always know. We had one dog come in and I honestly could not ever tell if it was a poorly bred chihuahua or a poorly bred papillon or a mix of the two. And I know papillons pretty darn well. Even if you know your breeds you can mess up because a lot of the dogs coming into shelters are not really great examples of the breed to begin with.


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## OwnedByFrank

Our pup came from the shelter with the label of "hound-labrador mix." We thought they were off their rocker as he looked exactly like a black and tan beagle. Even vets at two different clinics scoffed at the labrador part. Lo and behold, though, at 6 months old, Frank looks more like a Labbe (labrador beagle mix) than a beagle. Tricolor is uncommon in Labbes but not unheard of. His size will be enough larger than a beagle that we know there's more in there. 


























And yes, we're aware that he's outgrown his bed. He insists on sleeping in it still, though, and shreds the larger one.


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## Shaina

It's all a guess. Kim's supposedly a sheltie mix (admitted guess) who would top out at 25-30 lbs (our apartment limit at the time was about 35 lbs). She's barely shy of 50 and in the tallest height class in agility, with the GSDs and Weims and Dobes and bigger Golden/Labs and such.

Web's not a rescue but a similar guessing game...put down as a GSD mix. He's 3 and 23lbs. Runs Agility with the Shelties. 

Oh, irony.




GottaLuvMutts said:


> And a lot of times, behavior can tell you more than looks.


Tells you the more useful info anyway  Dog looks like a husky but act like a beagle, you treat the dog like a Beagle


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## Binkalette

Last year we had a puppy come in that looked JUST like a pug mix. He had a short little face and the tightly curled tail. His adult teeth were in and we guessed him at 7 months, pug mix. He was adopted by one of our volunteers who lets us know all the time that he is not a pug mix (he thought he was at first too). His nose grew out and he grew up! He's now about 40 pounds, as tall as a lab. But he still has that curly pug tail.


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## HersheyBear

OwnedByFrank said:


> Our pup came from the shelter with the label of "hound-labrador mix." We thought they were off their rocker as he looked exactly like a black and tan beagle. Even vets at two different clinics scoffed at the labrador part. Lo and behold, though, at 6 months old, Frank looks more like a Labbe (labrador beagle mix) than a beagle. Tricolor is uncommon in Labbes but not unheard of. His size will be enough larger than a beagle that we know there's more in there.
> /pQUOTE]
> 
> They weren't exactly incorrect. the Beagle is a type of hound.


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## Bones

Judging by all the "what is my mix" threads it isn't exactly a science ;P Most people who work with rescues don't specialize in every breed of dog on the planet- they may know the features and traits of certain breeds but when you have a complete mutt sometimes it's just the best guesstimate. When we don't really know but think it's a certain mix we usually go with the breed it resembles most that is also very common in our area. Sometimes they do get it obviously wrong- but most times its usually in the right area (type of hound, terrier, etc).


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