# Can someone give me some input? Keechak, perhaps?



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

We haven't decided, but are strongly considering an australian shepherd as our next puppy. I found three kennels, one of which I'm looking at a specific litter from. All of their sites are jumbled, and I cannot keep my ideas straight and navigate well enough to evaluate the breeders. I haven't seen any red flags, but I found it hard to find what I was looking for too. I'm also not familiar with any of the dogs, because I'm not active in the australian shepherd community, so was wondering if anyone was familiar with their dogs. 

If anyone knows a better breeder within 200miles of 49006, please let me know. 

I'm looking for a show or agility prospect. Not sure which gender I want yet, or what color. Medium-high drive. Any advice?

http://lakemichiganaussies.webs.com/
http://www.thornappleaussies.net/index.htm
http://www.richwoodfarms.com/index.htm


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I will start by saying I have always admired the Thornapple dogs, they have produced some very NICE dogs, their dogs are not overdone in anyway, very moderate and correct with beautiful heads, great health and great temperaments that I have seen. Getting one of their dogs would be a guilty pleasure of mine. 

The only thing that holds me back is that I am very strict in my stance that a breeder should be breeding to the WHOLE standard and not just most of it. Aussies are somewhat unique in being that their standard specifically calls for a dog with Strong Herding instinct, of course this part of the standard cannot be tested for in the show ring which is why it's so important to do Stock trials or at the very least herding instinct tests with aussies. An aussie breeder not caring if their aussie has herding instinct is akin to a GSD breeder not caring if their dog has a freaky temperament, It's not something that will hurt the individual dog but in the long run it could hurt the breed.

With that said Thornapple has PRODUCED dogs that have gotten stock titles and Herding Instinct certifications so the instinct is there in the lines being perserved even if it's not being activly used. I would not fault anyone for getting a dog from them and I am highly tempted to do so myself.

I have heard of Lake Mich Aussies but don't really know much about them I do see they have some Thornapple in their lines  

And I have never heard of Richwood


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Wow, good to hear. 

The litter I was looking at was from Richwood. They're using one of Thornapple's studs with their bitch. tbh though, I was only looking because it was posted, and would much rather have a litter from Apatchie or Diablo. My only issue is their site is crazy, and I cannot find any information on pricing, guarantees, etc. or planned litters.  I guess I'll have to email them.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

DJ,
Most Aussie kennels don't have prices posted. Usually, the puppies cost more if they are not sold with a spay / neuter. But anyways, you should pay $500 - $1k at most for a reputable dog. 

Anyways, I have observed one dog from Thornapple, by accident. This was at a herding trial.

Needless to say, they are not "tremendous" working dogs. They don't really have the natural instinct as other Aussies have. You just need to let a dog's natural instincts take over. However, if it is a family dog, don't worry about it.

Check out Slash V, they have a new litter coming up. I have contacted them, but have decided to go with another pup. I have a slash V pup and he is very good dog.

Check out HeartSong:

http://www.heartsongaussies.com/


----------



## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Looks like you need to come out to some of the shows and start talking to some of the local breeders. By "local" I mean, those who come out to Michigan. Many of the UKC folks travel from PA, MN, IA, and further then I thought for these downs. Your in a prime location since UKC has a ton of shows in Kalamazoo and AKC has a ton in Grand Rapids. Don't limit yourself to region.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

SlashV AWSOME breeder MUCH better IMO than Thornapple but it's not the kinda dog DJEtzel is looking for. I Want a SlashV pup in the worst way, If Dude was still around I would want a pup from him in particular (I know he's not bred by SlashV but he was one of their studs)


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak said:


> SlashV AWSOME breeder MUCH better IMO than Thornapple but it's not the kinda dog DJEtzel is looking for. I Want a SlashV pup in the worst way, If Dude was still around I would want a pup from him in particular (I know he's not bred by SlashV but he was one of their studs)


Keechak,

I think that starting from a working farm is a good way to find an Aussie with "old time" traits. Not only are the Aussie's not being bred for confirmation, but they are much more eager to work.

I have a slash V pup and he is a tremendous dog. However, he is a lot to handle. Today, he was at the park and was herding the pack of dogs. I suggest slash V (although it is not close to DJEtzel) for a few reasons:

a) Terry will work with the Original Poster to find a dog who is right for her. Super nice lady.
b) The working instinct is strong and they are very eager to please. Old time Aussie traits.
c) You can find a "middle" of the pack pup

My next pup is from Del Rae.

www.delraekennel.com

Great working dogs there. I brough my pup to work on livestock and fell in love with the litter. If the lighter Red Merle becomes too alpha though, I am goign to wait to get another pup in the winter. THat would be 3 strikes for me, as I observed two dogs, and declined both.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

> Not only are the Aussie's *not being bred for confirmation*, but they are much more eager to work.


Thats not good IMO, tho I don't know why you would say such, the SlashV dogs look very stucturally correct to me. Good Structure is just as important as good working ability, a breeder doesn't need to do conformation showing to have dogs with good structure tho.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak said:


> Thats not good IMO, tho I don't know why you would say such, the SlashV dogs look very stucturally correct to me. Good Structure is just as important as good working ability, a breeder doesn't need to do conformation showing to have dogs with good structure tho.


Yes, the SlashV dogs are structurally correct. That is a given. 
What I should have said was that theree are breeders that Breed strictly for Confirmation, and not natural instinct. They breed for looks, but the dogs natural instincts of herding are replaced and then bred for correct coats. 
Look at the latest litter for example:
They are all Brown Bi's. They are structurally sound and correct, but that is not a dog that will place well in a confirmation setting.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Well in the ASCA conformation rings near me I have seen very little bias on part of color, In the shows I attend I have seen mostly dogs with correct structure being put up over dogs with pretty markings, but then again I live in Wisconsin and most of the Aussie kennels near me are active in the stock arena.
Most of the ASCA shows that I go to are made up of farm dogs.


----------



## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Hmmm Slash V is near me....


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak said:


> Well in the ASCA conformation rings near me I have seen very little bias on part of color, In the shows I attend I have seen mostly dogs with correct structure being put up over dogs with pretty markings, but then again I live in Wisconsin and most of the Aussie kennels near me are active in the stock arena.
> Most of the ASCA shows that I go to are made up of farm dogs.


Must be nice.
IN the show ring with me, a lot of judges prefer Merle. Then you show up with a black tri and everyones like what the heck haha.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Now granted this girl does have both copper and white but I think we can both agree she is NOT flashy and she probably wouldn't stand a chance in the AKC ring she's got very high ears too, I would almost call them half prick. She's 7 years old, has been shown very minimally and took Winners Bitch, Best of Winners, and Best of Breed over specials for a 5 point Major on this day. She is from a breeder who breeds for Stock Trialing.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

At first, i thought that was Kechara, However, her collar is much different.

Beautiful looking dog. See, its a bit different around here. The judges just show a bias towards merle's. I don't know why, but that is the way it is.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> DJ,
> Most Aussie kennels don't have prices posted. Usually, the puppies cost more if they are not sold with a spay / neuter. But anyways, you should pay $500 - $1k at most for a reputable dog.
> 
> Anyways, I have observed one dog from Thornapple, by accident. This was at a herding trial.
> ...


Well, it isn't going to be a family dog, I'm looking for a show/agility prospect to get into the world. I expected to pay upwards of 1k, was just wondering what they were specifically.



Darkmoon said:


> Looks like you need to come out to some of the shows and start talking to some of the local breeders. By "local" I mean, those who come out to Michigan. Many of the UKC folks travel from PA, MN, IA, and further then I thought for these downs. Your in a prime location since UKC has a ton of shows in Kalamazoo and AKC has a ton in Grand Rapids. Don't limit yourself to region.


I definitely do. I've been looking around for shows I can afford to go to, but have as of yet drawn a blank. I don't think I have good resources for finding them though.


----------



## Tavi (May 21, 2010)

Hmm do you happen to be located near Waterford, MI? I know there's a trial coming up from the 17-19th for AWSOMM - Agility Workout Society of Mid-Michigan. Might be a good way to start meeting some of the local folks who do agility? Anyway just an idea, sad to say I can't help with any advice on the breeders!


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

DJ,
Check out HeartSong and email them when they will have another litter.
They seem like a good fit for your needs.
You can fill out the puppy questionaire after you email them, and tell them you want a dog middle of the road temperment wise. My Slash V was middle of the road at birth, but now seems to have the strongest desire to work out of the entire litter.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Surftb kinda OT but you gotta get some pics of your pup in your sig or avatar I wana see that cutie around.

On price, like Surftb mentioned, you would expect to pay $1,000 for a breeding quality aussie and $500-$700 for a pet quality.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak,
I will make a sig once I pick up the new Aussie within a month. If she doesn't work out (becomes alpha of the litter, or doesn't have the focus or drive I want) I am going to wait till Las Rocosa has their (secret) litter in the next few weeks. If that happens, I will add a sig then.


----------



## melgrj7 (Sep 21, 2007)

I love Slash V dogs . . . if I were to get an aussie it would be from Slash V, or from a breeder heavy in Slash V lines.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Tavi said:


> Hmm do you happen to be located near Waterford, MI? I know there's a trial coming up from the 17-19th for AWSOMM - Agility Workout Society of Mid-Michigan. Might be a good way to start meeting some of the local folks who do agility? Anyway just an idea, sad to say I can't help with any advice on the breeders!


I've never heard of the town, but I can mapquest it and if it's within 2 hours or so, I might be able to make it.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

updates?....


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Well, I emailed Thornapple, and they have a litter right now of 10, 3 of which would be suited for me well, but unfortunately I don't have the money right now.  There's a red tri male that's to die for that I would love... but, I'll have to wait. 

I'm not sure about Heartsong. They don't exactly have the type of Aussie I want. I'd like an agility dog with the option of showing in conformation as well, which is what Thornapple has to offer.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

It really is a puppy to puppy basis.
What colors are in that litter of ten?


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> It really is a puppy to puppy basis.
> What colors are in that litter of ten?


I'm not sure what all colors there are, but she picked a tri black, and two tri reds that she thought would be best for me.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

I just gave them a call as I am looking at an Aussie myself. I was not a match for their program as they don't place too well for working stock.

Anyway, the red tri is 10 weeks. They just had a litter of 10 and none of the pups are available at this time.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> I just gave them a call as I am looking at an Aussie myself. I was not a match for their program as they don't place too well for working stock.
> 
> Anyway, the red tri is 10 weeks. They just had a litter of 10 and none of the pups are available at this time.


No, they're more show lines, definitely. 

I know the red tri is 10 weeks, but what do you mean about no pups being available?


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Yea, I have her pictures here. I may go drive up later this week before my males stock trial to see. She has shown a tendancy to herd other litter mates, so we will see.

The lady just said they had a lot of people on the wiaitng list.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> Yea, I have her pictures here. I may go drive up later this week before my males stock trial to see. She has shown a tendancy to herd other litter mates, so we will see.
> 
> The lady just said they had a lot of people on the wiaitng list.


I'm not quite sure I follow. I mixed some things up and I don't actually know how many are in the litter, I doubled the 10week age to make it the quantity too. XD But, she was willing to sell any of the three to me, so I don't know what the deal is now..


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Hmmm.

I was ony inquiring about the red merle female.
Anyway, they are 4 days old only.
But not the dog for me. The red Tri (10 week) has a slight chance, but I am not so sure as that is more $ then more prominant breeders.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Ah, must be a new litter. 

If you're into working lines, why would you be considering thornapple? I'm assuming they cost more because they are show prospects.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Because I have been striking out as of late. I have been going through a lot of dogs at specific litters and non fit the bill of my desired bitch. I am going to be looking at this red merle bitch this weekend. If her color is too white, as it appears in pictures, I am going to wait in January. However, I would much rather get a puppy now because I am not doing much as far as my Masters degree is concerned.

Not to hijack,
But 3C's just had a litter of 8 males. 

http://www.3credranch.com/


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> Because I have been striking out as of late. I have been going through a lot of dogs at specific litters and non fit the bill of my desired bitch. I am going to be looking at this red merle bitch this weekend. If her color is too white, as it appears in pictures, I am going to wait in January. However, I would much rather get a puppy now because I am not doing much as far as my Masters degree is concerned.
> 
> Not to hijack,
> But 3C's just had a litter of 8 males.
> ...


Haha, hmmm... a little far for my tastes. 

I'm waiting until spring/summer of next year too, unfortunately.  Although, I'm considering selling my quad for this tri red male.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Here are the pix


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> Here are the pix


They are ADORABLE!


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

They were whelped September 4, so only a week old. There was 8 in the litter, those are just the pictures of the merles. 
I got in contact with the owner to se if they had any bitches available, but they do not. 8 boys.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Jeez. I wish they were closer, and showier.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Give them some time for the dogs to get a bit older, very strong pedigree with some confirmation titles.
I may EVEN consider one; however, I am 99% sure I am going with a female.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> Give them some time for the dogs to get a bit older, very strong pedigree with some confirmation titles.
> I may EVEN consider one; however, I am 99% sure I am going with a female.


I'm not sure which gender I would prefer as of yet... I've always liked males, but may try a female for something new. How common are aussies with DA or same sex DA?


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

What does DA stand for? Sorry I do not know.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> What does DA stand for? Sorry I do not know.


Haha, sorry... Dog Aggression.


----------



## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> Haha, sorry... Dog Aggression.


I would personally go for a female, though I don't know in aussies, I've seen same sex aggression in some lines of GSDs and have been told it's not uncommon (same for females) once the dog matures. Might be something to consider with Frag.
ETA: probably won't be a huge issue if you get the aussie as a pup though...Auz adores like sized males that he's known from a young age, it's like they remember


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> I would personally go for a female, though I don't know in aussies, I've seen same sex aggression in some lines of GSDs and have been told it's not uncommon (same for females) once the dog matures. Might be something to consider with Frag.
> ETA: probably won't be a huge issue if you get the aussie as a pup though...Auz adores like sized males that he's known from a young age, it's like they remember


Well, I'm more worried about the Aussie than Frag. I'm fairly positive there's not and never will be an aggressive bone in his body. I know it's very common in GSDs just because they're so dominant, but he's so.... not.


----------



## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

Um, stupid question:
Is it Slash V(as in V for Vendetta)? Or is it Slash roman numeral 5?


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I have never asked the breeders them selves but they are known as V (the letter) to all the aussie folks I talk to,

same sex DA is a relatively common thing with the breed, but if their is a great difference in age and size it shouldn't be a problem. Hawk and Jack got along great together with their being 12 years of difference between them lol. but Hawk and my friends aussie Jet do not get along they are about two years apart and Jet is about an inch bigger. They tollerate each other but they have gotten in scuffles.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Well, same sex dog pairings might exhibit some DA regardless of the age.

Now, as far as other dogs outside of your household, some dogs interpret the way my Aussie plays as being "agressive", but he is the most sociable dog around. Aussies play different then other dogs, its kind of hard to explain. For instance, when my male plays in a pack, he barks and trys to control their movement. Totally normal for an Aussie. However, some dogs interpret the barking as a sign of agression, when really, its just a working bark.



Keechak said:


> I have never asked the breeders them selves but they are known as V (the letter) to all the aussie folks I talk to,.



you are correct. I had to ask before I purchased B.


----------



## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> but Hawk and my friends aussie Jet do not get along


Strauss and Hawk don't get along either. Mostly because my dog is a jerk.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak,
Hopefull you don't mind that I menitoned Hawk to Marie ?


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

so long you don't say anything bad lol. don't know what you could possibly say bad about my little angle tho lol


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Haha, I don't know Hawkeye, so I just said that I was speaking to you over the internet. 

If things work out, hopefully B can meet your two pups!  I will drive up, about 12 hours.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I am 5 hours from her on the other side of the state.

hope you don't mind but I'd like to get a better feel of WHO exactly I'm talking to, are you male or female, age? state? how long have you been into aussies?


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak said:


> I am 5 hours from her on the other side of the state.
> 
> hope you don't mind but I'd like to get a better feel of WHO exactly I'm talking to, are you male or female, age? state? how long have you been into aussies?



Male. Im 23 and in the Masters program at Pitt. My family owned a farm, and always had working Aussies. After my dad passed a few years ago, my mom had to sell the farm. So there was an Aussie void in my life.

Anyway, I acquired B last October from Terry in Texas. It was the best decision I made. 

He passed the Herd Instinct Test at 6 months, and started on sheep a few months ago. Going to his second trial (12 to 18 months ASCA) this weekend. He has been rocking on the boomer ball lately so I should do well.

hopefly.


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

DJ hopefully you aren't picking about gender and colors like me. I would love an Aussie, still possibly considering one in the future. If I do If I get a Blue Merle I want it to be a male, if its Red Merele it has to be a female, Black Tri Male, Red Tri(not sure the proper term) has to be female. I don' know why but I am like that for GSDs too. Showline has to be female, and working line has to be male.lol.

Good luck in finding your puppy!! There is an Aussie board, that may be of help to get in contact with some other Aussie people and find out about more shows, I think the ASCA website has a list of shows.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

JessieLove09 said:


> DJ hopefully you aren't picking about gender and colors like me. I would love an Aussie, still possibly considering one in the future. If I do If I get a Blue Merle I want it to be a male, if its Red Merele it has to be a female, Black Tri Male, Red Tri(not sure the proper term) has to be female. I don' know why but I am like that for GSDs too. Showline has to be female, and working line has to be male.lol.
> 
> Good luck in finding your puppy!! There is an Aussie board, that may be of help to get in contact with some other Aussie people and find out about more shows, I think the ASCA website has a list of shows.


Haha, no, I'm not that picky. Gender doesn't make a difference to me, and I have color preferences, but they aren't that strong. I want what will suit me best, basically. The red tri male of that thornapple litter would have been perfect, but my financial aid for college is still not here, so I've been living off of my own money, which is depleting rapidly. Thank you though, I appreciate it! 

I've started a fund. Selling all of my quads and riding gear, my mountainboard, snowboard, skimboard. I'm also selling my car and buying a kia. All of this money will be going into a piggy bank on my entertainment center to purchase the new pup.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Good luck!!!! Thornapple is so pricey though.

There are a few good litters coming up in the next few weeks.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> Good luck!!!! Thornapple is so pricey though.
> 
> There are a few good litters coming up in the next few weeks.


I know they are, but I'm really liking their pups.

I am for sure waiting until after winter to get a pup. We raised Frag through the winter and I hated it!


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Personally, I prefer the winter.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Marie invited me out in October, So I might be heading over to Diamond Aire then


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Nice, hopefully there are some puppies on the ground then.


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> Haha, no, I'm not that picky. Gender doesn't make a difference to me, and I have color preferences, but they aren't that strong. I want what will suit me best, basically. The red tri male of that thornapple litter would have been perfect, but my financial aid for college is still not here, so I've been living off of my own money, which is depleting rapidly. Thank you though, I appreciate it!
> 
> I've started a fund. Selling all of my quads and riding gear, my mountainboard, snowboard, skimboard. I'm also selling my car and buying a kia. All of this money will be going into a piggy bank on my entertainment center to purchase the new pup.


Your not the only whos Finacial Aid is being slow. >.< I know some people who have 2 jobs.

Of course other traits of a dog are majorly important, I would just add the color part last.lol.If I end up with a Blue Merele female whose traits fits me best I will be fine.lol

Why are showline dogs more pricey than working dogs? I have noticed that for alot breeds.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I haven't noticed any price difference in general, there are a few breeders here and there that are pricy in show and working.
Hawkeye's breeder breeds for both show and working and her showy pups are no different price wise than her working home pups


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Hopefully her litter produces a red merle bitch.
Thats what I want.
op2::wave::wink:

If not, Las Rocosa will be my next poison.
Hoping for healthy wedding dates and a healthy Diamond Aires whelp.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

JessieLove09 said:


> Your not the only whos Finacial Aid is being slow. >.< I know some people who have 2 jobs.
> 
> Of course other traits of a dog are majorly important, I would just add the color part last.lol.If I end up with a Blue Merele female whose traits fits me best I will be fine.lol
> 
> Why are showline dogs more pricey than working dogs? I have noticed that for alot breeds.


Guh, yeah. I'm living off of a couple hundred in the bank right now. My loan money is supposed to be coming through tomorrow and I'll be set. I'm applying for a second job this saturday, although I don't think the schedules will work out. 

Yeah, I pretty much just DON'T want a black bi or tri. I would love a red merle, red tri, or blue merle.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Black tri + blue eyes = does real well in confirmation. Recessive / recessive gene. 8 percent chance of that combo.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

surftb15 said:


> Black tri + blue eyes = does real well in confirmation. Recessive / recessive gene. 8 percent chance of that combo.


"CH Howards Wabani Ishna Ghost Eyes" = Love 
lol Tho I know the Blue eyes on a black dog do not do well in the AKC ring.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak said:


> "CH Howards Wabani Ishna Ghost Eyes" = Love
> lol Tho I know the Blue eyes on a black dog do not do well in the AKC ring.


Pic?

I do not like the AKC ring. ASCA > AKC


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

going with one of these females:

http://countrystyleaussies.com/litters.html


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

surftb15 said:


> going with one of these females:
> 
> http://countrystyleaussies.com/litters.html


Love the red tri and darker red merle.  That merle looks like she has great focus.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

well i have it narrowed down to 3:
red tri or both red merles LOL.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

surftb15 said:


> Pic?


Ch. Howards Wanagi Ishna Ghost Eyes.



















This guy has contributed a lot to the breed.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Ah yes

http://www.ashgi.org/color/aussie_eye_color.htm


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

ya and ASHGI is one of my favorite organizations


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

I have a few Aussie breeders I like:
Lakehills
Sierra Rose
Skyhi

They are mostly Show breeders(I think). Sierra Rose is having a litter born the day after my birthday! If I had the money I would so get one.lol. But I can wait.=)


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Keechak said:


> ya and ASHGI is one of my favorite organizations


They do good work indeed.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Hmmm....

Two red Merles of interest.

op2:


----------



## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

The aussie puppy my wife and I picked up last May dam is from Las Rocosa lines, and the sire is from Slash V lines. They are a new breeder just getting started, but we have been very happy with our girl. She is incredibly smart with high drive. We plan on getting her started in agility soon(obviously no jumping ect. till she is older though). 

I would be interested in getting her into doing some working, but am not really sure how I would go about getting into that.

Ch. Howards Wanagi Ishna Ghost Eyes. Wow that is a striking dog.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

The first thing you need to do is post some pictures.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Beautiful DOG!! 
I love her eyes!
I may be interested in this one year old pup too for my needs. Either this dog or one of those puppies above.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Guh. I need some more help, guys. I just can't figure out what lines would be best and what breeder and so on and so forth. 

AND, I'm a little confused about ASCA registration. Thornapple doesn't register with ASCA, but if I got a Thornapple pup would there be any way to register her? I've noticed a lot of the breeders I'm looking at have ASCA regsitered dogs with Thornapple lines or direct dam/sires. How does that work?

I'm looking at a few crosses right now, but color keeps impeding me. I know it shouldn't, but I want a red tri/merle. I would settle for a blue merle, but I just do not like black bis or tris. There is a nice cross coming around feb. but they're only throwing blacks. 

Right now I'm looking at this cross (winter 2010 at the bottom)
http://www.richwoodfarms.com/upcoming_litters.htm

Bitch has some Las Rocosa lines in her which I noticed, some WTCH lines (which I want), and Thornapple is prevalant on her dam's side. But she's ASCA registered? 

Dog doesn't have any special lines that I saw, but he is a 3x champion. Bitch just has a UKC CH. and rally legs as far as I can tell. 

What do you guys think of this one?

I was also very intrigued by Diamond Aire's recent litter (where I noticed Keechak took the Sire's photograph for their site. ) but alas, all blacks. 

There's also this cross planned for the early spring which I am going to keep in mind, even though no reds. Blues and blacks, repeat successful breeding.
UKC Ch Faithwalk's Bold Elegance
X
AKC/UKC CH Thornapple Single Barrel "Cruzan"

She's ASCA registered but he's not... would the pups be?

And I've also been very interested in this bitch being bred this winter. Sire has yet to be chosen, but she looks/sounds fantastic. 
AKC/ASCA CH Mercury Thornapple Turn it Up

Once again- she came from Thornapple, but she's ASCA registered. How's that work?

Guh. There are just so many options and so much to process.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Thornapple competes in AKC and USASA (which sucks) and there will not be a way to register with ASCA. ASCA Requires to have blood lines from her kennel, and she does not do that. Unfortunately, that is the major downside with Thornapple dogs.

Honestly, don't worry about color at this stage. If this is your first true herding breed, you may get more then you handle if you judge based on color. There are plenty of blacks that show real well. Henly is one that comes to mind, beautiful bitch. Go to link below then click litters:

http://showdownaussies.com/

The first cross dam and sire both look overdone with coat. 

All of those litters are show quality litters, which is great. I wouldn't worry about having some "WTCH" if its a few generations removed. By that time, most working instinct will not be intact. You need to find working lines for both dam and sire. EVen STD is a good title to have.

Edit: That dog is ASCA registered because they probably sent blood lines into ASCA. Thornapple does not do that for some reason I am not sure.

Edit: DJ I pmed you.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I _think_ you can "hardship" a puppy who has one ASCA registered parent and one AKC registered one. Kechara was elligable for ASCA "hardship" registration as a puppy (saddly 9 years ago I didn't know what ASCA was and I let her "hardship" papers expire)


----------



## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

There aren't a ton of lines that I know much about, but if I were to get another Aussie I would want a Slash V. They breed to almost the type that I would be looking for in an Aussie, and of course they are in Texas which is nice.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Don't get a slash V dog, they're lunatics LOL.

Actually, I have a Slash V male (although outcross) and he is a very nice dog. Extremely easy to live with, but does not have an off switch. He is nicknamed "bernie the border Aussie". Very very very good gathering instict, very motivated worker, but very difficult at times.

Her lines don't mimick the typical Ausssie.



Keechak said:


> I _think_ you can "hardship" a puppy who has one ASCA registered parent and one AKC registered one. Kechara was elligable for ASCA "hardship" registration as a puppy (saddly 9 years ago I didn't know what ASCA was and I let her "hardship" papers expire)


Yes, but the breeder needs to do that I believe. And they will still need to send blood samples to ASCA.

ASCA has been pretty strict about things lately. If one generation from a breeder doesn't have verified blood, then they remove ASCA registration of future crosses.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Hmm. Interesting about the whole ASCA thing. Totally goes to confuse everyone, I think.


----------



## dbulick (May 10, 2010)

That is odd, I would think that most major breeders would want to register with the parent club. I spose it just depends on what they are looking to do with their dogs. Maybe breeders who compete in conformation don't really care about ASCA shows as much as AKC?


----------



## Legacy (Mar 9, 2009)

Keechak's right...you can hardship register to ASCA but I think you better do it quickly. I was in the ASCA website looking up further info to register Shayna and they are posting new deadlines and tightening up rules for certain things. I believe hardship MIGHT have been one of them. Better check it out soon if you are interested!


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

NSDR is the original parent club for the breed, ASCA split off when they wanted to create a standard for the breed. and then the AKC saw $$$ and the AKC created the USASA, it was a BIG Bull-S time for the AKC, The AKC didn't even care if the dogs had a real pedigree to be AKC registered in the early years. And ASCA would not give out certified pedigrees to anyone looking to go into the AKC. There was and still is a big feud between the two organisations. But ASCA has finally accepted back in some of the mutts that registered with the AKC as aussies, thru the hardship program. 

I have a big artical on the whole scheme the AKC's worst point in which they put greed infront of stud book accuracy it took place back in the early 1990's


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

yea and now NSDR dogs are mainly backyard breeder dogs.
The USASA is jsut awful IMO.
Keechak, respond to your PM. 

Have an AUSS-ome thanksgivivng everyone


----------



## Legacy (Mar 9, 2009)

Yes! That's why I found an ASCA breeder...I had heard about the AKC fiasco. ASCA is now requiring that all breeding dogs must be DNA'd. If something in the DNA doesn't check out, they pull the ASCA papers. They do this to protect the bloodlines. I can appreciate this after the difficulty I had finding a "standard" Australian Shepherd. One lady proudly announced her dogs were AKC and I almost reserved a puppy until I visited and the prospective bitch was only 15" tall and to be honest, her head looked "terrier" to me, the sire was on the small side too. Then I was told they only bred "Miniature Aussies". Not what I wanted so I tripped out the door. There are alot of breeders out there passing "Mini" and "Toy" as Australian Shepherds. ASCA may be tougher but to protect the REAL Australian Shepherd they are very needed. I love my Aussie's just they way they have always been!

JMHO


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Ah, thanks for all the information guys. Very sketchy stuff.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I think I may have found my litter. 

http://www.navrockaussies.com/litters.html


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I've seen their kennel name around the ASCA world a lot


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Keechak said:


> I've seen their kennel name around the ASCA world a lot


Yeah? Have you heard/seen anything significantly good or bad?


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

nope don't know much else about them. I just see dog's with their name listed on the results lists from shows frequintly.


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

I was recently offered a Aussie puppy. Turned it down because I am not looking for a puppy and they seemed iffy to me, but then I saw what you guys said about the ASCA. Is it ok if some of the titles have AKC in them?

This is the breeder:
http://RipRoarinAussies.com/


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

JessieLove09 said:


> I was recently offered a Aussie puppy. Turned it down because I am not looking for a puppy and they seemed iffy to me, but then I saw what you guys said about the ASCA. Is it ok if some of the titles have AKC in them?
> 
> This is the breeder:
> http://RipRoarinAussies.com/


Its perfectly fine for a dog to have akc titles, i just don't agree with an aussie ONLY having akc registration.


----------



## Legacy (Mar 9, 2009)

Keechak said:


> Its perfectly fine for a dog to have akc titles, i just don't agree with an aussie ONLY having akc registration.


+1 with Keechak


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Keechak said:


> nope don't know much else about them. I just see dog's with their name listed on the results lists from shows frequintly.


Ah, alright. I guess no news is better than bad news, right? I've been following this breeder for a while and have gotten good recommendations to her by other breeders, so I'm just awaiting a response from her to see if I'll be able to get onto the list. 



JessieLove09 said:


> I was recently offered a Aussie puppy. Turned it down because I am not looking for a puppy and they seemed iffy to me, but then I saw what you guys said about the ASCA. Is it ok if some of the titles have AKC in them?
> 
> This is the breeder:
> http://RipRoarinAussies.com/


A dual Ch. is always better than only one. AKC is great too, but ASCA titles mean a bit more in the Aussie world.


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks. Just double checking.=)

I am interested as them for an Aussie breeder since they are so close to me.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

JessieLove09 said:


> Thanks. Just double checking.=)
> 
> I am interested as them for an Aussie breeder since they are so close to me.


Haha, I really wanted to find a breeder close too, but that didn't happen. She's in Iowa... I'm in Michigan. 

Better than the litter I thought about shipping from Texas though!


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

Yep. But I hope she will be breeding when I eventually start looking for another dog. Right now, I am just browsing.

When I get another GSD , that one may have to be shipped, but I will worry about it when the time comes.

All of my puppy plans are up in the air right now.lol.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

JessieLove09 said:


> Yep. But I hope she will be breeding when I eventually start looking for another dog. Right now, I am just browsing.
> 
> When I get another GSD , that one may have to be shipped, but I will worry about it when the time comes.
> 
> All of my puppy plans are up in the air right now.lol.


Ha. Nice. 

My GSD puppy won't need to be shipped, I already have a local breeder picked out for him.  That won't be for a while, though.


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

I might ship or stay, leaning towards shipping. But we will see when the time comes.


----------



## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Excited that you found your Aussie litter 

Sooo... when are you planning for that Michigan GSD pup?


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Equinox said:


> Excited that you found your Aussie litter
> 
> Sooo... when are you planning for that Michigan GSD pup?


Well, it's not set in stone yet. I'm glad I found it, but I'm gonna be more glad when I get on the list!

Haha, Michigan GSD pup will probably be in 3-5 years, depending on how the Aussie pup turns out. Sooner if she's a dud in the show ring/health department, later if she's breeding material. I have Chris in mind.


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

Chris has gorgeous dogs. Have you looked at Spartanville? I am probably going with her(if I decide to go for Working line)

Are you getting Red Merle? Blue Merle? Black Tri?


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

JessieLove09 said:


> Chris has gorgeous dogs. Have you looked at Spartanville? I am probably going with her(if I decide to go for Working line)
> 
> Are you getting Red Merle? Blue Merle? Black Tri?


Yes, Spartanville has very nice dogs, too, and I considered them for a while, but I think Chris has more that I'm looking for. 

I'm not sure what color I'll be getting yet, I'm hoping for a red tri, but a red merle is my backup. It's a merle/tri cross, so we'll see what genders are what colors.


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

Those Sables are just irresistible!

I am sure you will be happy with whichever you end up with.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

JessieLove09 said:


> Those Sables are just irresistible!
> 
> I am sure you will be happy with whichever you end up with.


I definitely will.


----------



## JessieLove09 (Mar 27, 2010)

And you are going to post pictures!!


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

JessieLove09 said:


> And you are going to post pictures!!


Haha, most definitely.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Well, Brandy from Navrock got back to me today and all of their show reservations are taken up. 

She recommended this litter.
http://www.waterfallaussie.com/WK.htm

Thoughts? I'm kind of iffy.


----------



## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

I think they're some of the best looking puppy-caterpillars I've seen, their coats look shinier than average. But if I were after a show and performance dog, I would not be crazy about the dam having the description Wish does. She doesn't sound very Aussie-ish to me. I would want a dog that was a little more "go," a lot more into all this stuff. She also looks a little out of proportion too me, slightly too long in the back.


----------



## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

RaeganW said:


> I think they're some of the best looking puppy-caterpillars I've seen, their coats look shinier than average. But if I were after a show and performance dog, I would not be crazy about the dam having the description Wish does. She doesn't sound very Aussie-ish to me. I would want a dog that was a little more "go," a lot more into all this stuff. She also looks a little out of proportion too me, slightly too long in the back.


I thought the same thing about her description, which is sort of what put me off. "Doesn't like showing or doing much... but will jump fences for fun..." :O

I believe they edited their pictures strangely and have some of them streched out, as seen in Stella's picture. At least that is what I hope. The only thing drawing me towards this is a breeder recommendation, really. I also thought it was sort of strange that their pedigree's are both randomly not championed here or there, like they were just breeding dogs for the sake, kwim?

I'm having a hard time finding a nice litter once again.. Can't get ahold of Shalako.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

1) No to Waterfall Aussies

2) Call Shalako, they are taking 4 show deposits still and have some beautiful pups in that cross. Beautiful.

3) What traits do you want in an Aussie? List 5 specific traits and we can determine the breeder for you.


----------



## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

I would not go with waterfall they don't seem to have a very high respect for the bitch they bred and it's seems to me the only reason for breeding her is because she is pretty and has a CH.


----------



## surftb15 (Dec 23, 2009)

Waterfall Aussies also made a cross with Epi some generations ago.


----------



## Austinsmom (Apr 5, 2011)

I can't believe you publicly posted such hearsay on a forum. Do you have proof of your actualization?
And in Aussies all lines, may at one time produce it. We are working on a DNA test for a marker but as of
date there is no test. THERE ARE NO "SAFE" LINES. And if you investigate you will find it present in most pedigrees.
It is a polygetic gene and we have to cross our fingers every time we outcross.

That been said I do like Marci of MI Aussies. She is a very warm lady. If you are spending a good deal of money
on a puppy, they should come with a breeder that will be there for you.


----------

