# Difference American Akita Between Japanese Akita



## LoneRider (Jul 6, 2009)

I've done some reading about the Akita Inu or Japanese Akita and American Akita recently and I've noticed there are some differences mainly size and weight with the American Akita being somewhat heavier boned.

I gather the temperment of both breeds are similar? I've also heard that the some circles do not consider the two breeds as separate.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

Personaly I wouldn't consider them seperate breeds, just a difference in type. Think of it as a show vs working versions. There's no more difference between the two then there is for most breeds that have differences in type.


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## LoneRider (Jul 6, 2009)

That's what I imagined as well but there seems to be some contention in some circles as to whether the two breeds should be considered separate breeds or not. Some think that there is enough divergence that this warrants them being considered separate breeds but it doesn't seem to be that substantial at least according to my research.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

Can you just explain to me what the differences are? I've never heard of this before and I'd like to know more!


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## cargo54 (Jan 27, 2010)

for those who dont think they are different watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs0FXWIdDLc

I think the malmamute vs husky comparison is very accurate for the akita.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

One popular story says that during one of the world wars an invading army I beleive American, was slaughtering the Akita. so the Japanese bred their Akita with German Shepherds to perserve the blood but make the puppies less of a target. This story says that some of the soldiers took the mixes home with them and they became the dark faced akitas. 

To This day a dark faced Akita in Japan is seen as an impure bloodline, they beleive the only true Akita has a white face, and that the dark faced ones are the deciendents of the mixing.


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## cargo54 (Jan 27, 2010)

That's possible I've never heard that story.  If you look here at the older pictures you can see they are generally a thinner dog orginally.

http://japanese-dogs.com/akitas2.html

also even thou wikipedia isnt a reputable source this seems to make the most sense on why there are differences 

"
The Japanese Akita and American Akita began to diverge in type through the middle and later part of the 20th century. Japanese Akita fanciers focused on restoring the breed as a work of Japanese art. American Akita fanciers bred larger, heavier-boned dogs. Both types derive from a common ancestry, but marked differences can be observed between the two. First, while American Akitas are acceptable in all colors, Japanese Akitas are only permitted to be red, fawn, sesame, white, or brindle. Additionally, American Akitas may be pinto and/or have black masks, unlike Japanese Akitas where it is considered a disqualification and not permitted in the breed standards. American Akitas generally are heavier boned and larger, with a more bear-like head, whereas Japanese Akitas tend to be lighter and more finely featured with a fox-like head"


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## LoneRider (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks for the explanation Cargo54. And it seems that there are no significant temperment differences between the two types of Akita (for lack of a better term).

The main reason I started this thread curiousity about the breed. I heard they were renowned for their loyalty and I wondered if that trait is commonplace with Akitas. I've also heard they can be headstrong as well.

One of the breeds of dog I'm considering adopting from a shelter in the next few months is the Akita. Among my other choices considered are the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Pitbull Terrier, Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky, and Weimaraner. It'll be a while before I adopt my newest of best friends so plenty of time to do research.


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## cargo54 (Jan 27, 2010)

Yea from my understanding the temperaments are very similar, its hard to research though since most results dont consider the japanese akita different. I am also in the search for a dog, and unfortunately my girlfriend doesnt want a huge dog and the difference between the fox like akita inu which i love and she likes and the bear like akita which i dont mind as much and she thinks is too big.


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## K9 Wolf (Jan 31, 2010)

animalcraker said:


> Personaly I wouldn't consider them seperate breeds, just a difference in type. Think of it as a show vs working versions. There's no more difference between the two then there is for most breeds that have differences in type.


In most countries except the US and Canada, the Akita is 2 seperate breeds, The Great Japanese Dog (American) and The Akita Inu (Japanese). I personaly think they should be different breeds, my friend breeds American Akitas and she thinks they should be too. The difference is so huge. On one side you have a big heavy bear look, the other you have a smooth wise fox look. 

The original Irish Setter was red and white, but now the standart is only red. They called a second breed Red and White Setter. It's the exact same dog with the petite difference of colour, and they're 2 breeds. The akita doesn't only have colour difference, but body as well. Yet they are still one breed with 2 ideas in mind, it doesn't work.


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## princesstiffany (Mar 26, 2009)

cargo54 said:


> That's possible I've never heard that story. If you look here at the older pictures you can see they are generally a thinner dog orginally.
> 
> http://japanese-dogs.com/akitas2.html
> 
> ...


this a fairly good explanation of the differences in the akita breed. both my akitas have mixed lines, meaning have both american and japanese lines in their pedigree, they have the american colors/patterns, but the japanese body type. but the temperments are pretty much the same regardless, just different looks. i know several breeders that would like the breed to be seperated into 2 different breeds, and to be honest, since their are noticable differences i can see why. but then again, its like breeding rough and smooth collie or the crested with its hairless and powder puff variations. 
granted it is more substance that is now dividing the breed and if breeders continue to focus one or the other, i can see in the future this becoming a bigger topic. 
i don't agree with its like comparing a husky and malamute, those are 2 totally seperate breeds from different regions and they do have different temperments.

regardless, the akita is my heart breed and my hope is one day i can import a red or brindle pup from japan from more pure lines!


so hopefully if you are looking to adopt one, make sure you do your research ten fold with this breed. they can be the best dog or can be hell depending on breeding, training and socialization!

and for the husky too. they can make you laugh one minute and then make you want to pull your hair out the next lol

i have 2 akitas and 2 huskies and people say i'm a bit crazy


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

This is a topic that gets beaten to death a lot, and people seem to be very vocal and opinionated on the subject. Its always interesting to be how heated of a debate it can become and how closed minded both sides can be.

*I'm glad that is not the case here on this forum.*

The Akita (both types) is a rather unhealthy breed, and so a lot of the choices made for the breed in America has been based on improving their health. The breed started as one breed, the differences in types you see in America vs. Europe vs. Japan is just simply due to standardization differences at the reconstruction of the Japanese breeds in the 1930s.

Around 1931 the Akita, as well as the other Nihonken, were standardized and preserved as "natural monuments" in Japan. During the standardization each breed had their own standard officially written but the Kishu Ken was the breed used for the base of all the Nihonken breed standards and the selection and refinement process started in order to sculpt the breed into what we know today. All of the Nihonken breeds we see today looked rather different - and more similar to each other - than they do today. 

The Akita, being the largest of the Nihonken, had in the past been mixed with other European breeds to maintain their strength and size. At the point of the standardization out-crossing was no longer allowed in Japan.

Before the standardization in Japan, the Akita had a wide ranging phenotype, and the black mask, which is often thought to be an America-only trait, was prominent. Also, in Japan, there were pinto, brindle, sesame and solid color Akita. It was not until the 1930s (and the standardization) that these traits were selectively bred out of the Akita in Japan.

Meanwhile, in America, a few Akita made their way over to Japan. These Akita had the phenotype of the pre-standardized Akita, and that phenotype was preserved in the American lines since they were not selected toward the new standard created in Japan. Instead, the Akita in America had its own "type" and was therefore shaped differently, over time, than the Japanese variety.

Fast forward to today, after almost 80 years of selection based on 2 different standards and you can see some rather obvious differences in the 2 types. The core genetics - the foundation stock - is the same, but the breeds have been refined in 2 very different directions. 

Now, in America, the 2 types have been merged, and are considered one breed. This was a move to strengthen the genetics of the breed and to create one standard. By mixing the 2 types, it is hoped that, the health issues passed through the breed will lessen. 

In America, if you look at many of the Akita being produced today, from the mixing of these 2 types, you see something very interesting happening - the dogs resemble the Akita of old - the pre-standardized Akita of Japan. Its an interesting case study, really. If America continues to mix the 2 types we will all get to witness the standardization that occurred similarly in Japan in the 1930s, only here in the US there will be a wider phenotype (the acceptance of more colors, etc)... And man would it be cool if the breed's health issues were put in check too.

So, it all comes down to how you define "breed". Is it the standard that makes a "breed" or the genetics and origin that make the "breed"? 

Personally, I couldn't care less. All I know, IMHO, is that the selection process on all sides (America, Europe, and Japan) has taken a strong, noble, and amazing breed and created a weak, temperamentally-volatile, and unhealthy breed - and that is very sad to me.

The caddy politics and silly rules that have evolved around this breed in the American breed clubs (ACA) are gross.

----

On the note of temperament, my wife and I have 4 imported Akita Inu (JA), and we have spent loads of time with several AA, and I can tell you for sure, while there may be some base-level temperament and behavioral traits shared, the temperament of the AA and JA is pretty different, IMHO. 

The import variety of the Akita is a lighter-boned, smaller, lower-drive, and less rugged dog when compared to the American variety. While the American variety is a much more defensive dog with a stronger and thicker build.

Our Akita Inu would rather lay on our couch all day than be playing in the woods. Sure, there is a tiny bit of prey drive in them, and yes they do love to go on walks and play, but they have no real working qualities - IMHO. It seems their drive and "independent working breed" qualities were traded for nice looks, pet temperament, and "showiness". 

Ours do still posses that famed loyalty, as does the American variety, but without the working drive, all that makes for is a Velcro dog that follows you everywhere. 

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I don't mean to poo on the breed, they are wonderful dogs, I have just been disappointed in what they have become and the loss of their "purpose"...

I read the old stories of these powerful hunting dogs and their great ability to bay large dangerous game like Japanese Black Bear, and their courage... said to "not back down from any threat or game". Then I take my Akita out in the woods to hike and they will not even walk through mud! LOL. 

And this protective quality you hear about, where did it go? We had to get _real_ working guardians to protect our Akita! Before we had our CO, one night I let Kona (Kai Ken) and our 2 female Akita out to potty before bed - I didn't realize it but there were 2 Coyote in our yard when I did that... Well, Kona went NUTS - charged after them and ran them off the property. The Akita? Well, they ran back in the house! WTF?

But, for the average Akita owner, I think they probably still "fit the bill". I'm just disappointed in what they have become - add to the lack of drive the terrible health issues (only one of our 4 Akita is free of hereditary illness), and I'd say the breed is lost.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

I forgot, I meant to post this article:

MY THOUGHTS ON THE AKITA DOG -By Naoto Kajiwara


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## LoneRider (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks for the insights guys.

BradA1878 the link you posted didn't work.

As I discern from your post Japanese Akita are less sturdy than the American Akitas in terms of size and musculature and seem to have different temperments. In terms of here in the States and at a shelter I presume an AA versus a JA is what I'm most liable to run accross (frankly where my dog comes from is less important than his or her temperment)?

Most likely I'm going to get whatever dog I get from either a shelter or a rescue but I am doing all the research I can. Part of that research is posting on the forum...


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## princesstiffany (Mar 26, 2009)

i should have just waited until you posted Brad and after my nap to cure my migraine.

i admire your knowledge of the breed ( actually, all the breeds you own, you have some of my dream dogs) and really feel you hit the nail on the head with this breed. out of our 3 akitas so far, only 1 has not had any health issues and i agree with you that what they are doing to the breed as far as lineage, health and such is going, isn't a great thing and its definately changing the breed for the worse.

i know when i started my research on the breed, what drew me to them was their drive and all that the akita was suppose to be. and although i do love the breed and hope to always have one, it does make me a little sad to think that the akita i got 10 years ago to my akita now to my future akita, if that may be, will almost be totally different due to breeding.


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## cargo54 (Jan 27, 2010)

If you don't mind me asking brad how do you go about importing a dog?


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

LoneRider said:


> BradA1878 the link you posted didn't work.


That was my bad, sorry. Its fixed now and here is the URL (in case there are other problems): http://www.docstoc.com/docs/23810585/MY-THOUGHTS-ON-THE-AKITA-DOG




> As I discern from your post Japanese Akita are less sturdy than the American Akitas in terms of size and musculature and seem to have different temperments. In terms of here in the States and at a shelter I presume an AA versus a JA is what I'm most liable to run accross (frankly where my dog comes from is less important than his or her temperment)?


Yes, I would plan for an AA from a US shelter. I have only seen one JA in rescue, and a few blends.

I think its wise to worry about the temperament over anything - and on that note, I will say, I do not find Akita to be quarrelsome dogs - they don't look for fights, but they will not back down from a fight either. Akita also seem to dislike rudeness (from other dogs), and that can cause them to be reactive.

In Akita there is a very high percentage of thyroid problems, last I read it was 75% of the dogs in the US have some form of a thyroid problem. Thyroid issues can cause erratic and unexplained temperament changes - Just something you want to watch for.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

princesstiffany said:


> i should have just waited until you posted Brad and after my nap to cure my migraine.
> 
> i admire your knowledge of the breed ( actually, all the breeds you own, you have some of my dream dogs) and really feel you hit the nail on the head with this breed. out of our 3 akitas so far, only 1 has not had any health issues and i agree with you that what they are doing to the breed as far as lineage, health and such is going, isn't a great thing and its definately changing the breed for the worse.
> 
> i know when i started my research on the breed, what drew me to them was their drive and all that the akita was suppose to be. and although i do love the breed and hope to always have one, it does make me a little sad to think that the akita i got 10 years ago to my akita now to my future akita, if that may be, will almost be totally different due to breeding.


Yea, it really is sad. The irony of our situation is that we brought our Akita into the this country to help improve the temperament and health of the breed - not that we are so vein to think we could fix the problem - but we did hope to at least help a little. It was a starting point.

We did a ton of research, met dams and sires, got references from others who had imported... and then ended up with unhealthy Akita. It has been a painful and disappointing journey for us.

But, we got some wonder couch potatoes out of it, and learned a lot, so I dunno that we can really complain.


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## BradA1878 (Nov 28, 2009)

cargo54 said:


> If you don't mind me asking brad how do you go about importing a dog?


I don't mind you asking, but, to be frank, given our poor track record with importing Akita, my answer is: *We did it the wrong way.*

Seriously tho, we did it through connections, referrals, communicating with the breeders, meeting dogs, and then paying a lot of money.


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## cargo54 (Jan 27, 2010)

I can imagine that to be quite expensive.


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## LoneRider (Jul 6, 2009)

So are Akita's typically one person dogs? Or can they get along with strangers despite as the wikipedia article goes 'being reserved around them'? How challenging is it to socialize an Akita. 

Whatever dog I wind up adopting I intend to socialize him or her with people and animals as I want to include my dog in as many of my activities as possible. And I do plan on having a serious relationship at some point in the next few years so I'd like my dog to be able to accept a girlfriend hanging about without getting pissy with her...


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