# First European company coming to the USA



## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

So if this is true Im very interested to see it because I know how much higher their standards are. Wouldnt this be the first European company to be on the U.S. market? Word is their ND grain free line is coming. I hear its going to be here late September. Might give Orijen a run for their money depending on the pricing.
Link: Farmina ND Canine

Saw this on another forum from TruthAboutPetFood:



> New Pledge!
> 
> We have received a new Pledge to Quality and Origin - this is a pet food manufactured in Italy and will soon make its debut in the U.S. Welcome Farmina Pet Food to the Pledge!
> 
> ...


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

I always though Solid Gold was a European company. . .or started that way anyway.

Ingredients look great. I wonder what the pricing will look like?


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Willowy said:


> I always though Solid Gold was a European company. . .or started that way anyway.
> 
> Ingredients look great. I wonder what the pricing will look like?


Yea I know. That's what I'm wondering. Coming that far the pricing could be really bad :lol: if its good though I think they are really REALLY gonna give Orijen Natures Variety Merrick and Evo a run for their money..... Looking forward to seeing that. Ha maybe it will cause them to raise their standards eventually 


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

I looked at the formulas last night and they are very high in animal protein. They look really good and the website has some very nice information about production methods. Ash is very low for such high protein foods. The boar food has fresh boar, fresh chicken and fresh fish.

The packaging looks very attractive as well, so that bodes well for success.


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## HillyBilly (Jun 11, 2013)

Does anyone know where it will be sold? Pet Food Boutiques? Online pet food stores like Chewy.com, Petflow.com, or Wag.com?


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

HillyBilly said:


> Does anyone know where it will be sold? Pet Food Boutiques? Online pet food stores like Chewy.com, Petflow.com, or Wag.com?


I believe it's going to be online and to distributors for local stores. Which distributors though... I have no idea. I hope Animal Supply Co picks them up or at least one of ours 


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## HicktownJuliet (Aug 26, 2012)

I wonder if I could get it in Canada? I usually prefer to buy products that are more local though. Thats why I feed Dally Acana from Alberta, and Sandy and Will get Horizon Legacy from right here in Saskatchewan.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

I think the decision to come here is very clever. People here buy food from Canada (no offense to the Canadians here) but Canada is about exciting culturally as a shoe and also one of the GMO mother-ships and people spend obscene amounts on canned food from Thailand, which is filthy and disease ridden.

So La Dolce Vita, especially for Americans, seems like a very low risk, high reward move. Italian food and culture is an important part of American culture. I doubt anyone would question ingredient quality from Italy.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> I think the decision to come here is very clever. People here buy food from Canada (no offense to the Canadians here) but Canada is about exciting culturally as a shoe and also one of the GMO mother-ships and people spend obscene amounts on canned food from Thailand, which is filthy and disease ridden.
> 
> So La Dolce Vita, especially for Americans, seems like a very low risk, high reward move. Italian food and culture is an important part of American culture. I doubt anyone would question ingredient quality from Italy.


Might wanna check you stats. China is filthy... Thailand is not. Thailand doesn't have like their own FDA like we do here. They are looked over by the British which is double the standards of the FDA.... Ever looked at canned food from Thailand??!! Fussie Cat and Tiki Cat/Dog is human grade canned. Looks and smells exactly like good human food. In fact the tuna they use in Fussie Cat cans is the same tuna they use at Subway.... Thailand is WAY high quality. China not so much.... 


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Zilla said:


> Might wanna check you stats. China is filthy... Thailand is not. Thailand doesn't have like their own FDA like we do here. They are looked over by the British which is double the standards of the FDA.... Ever looked at canned food from Thailand??!! Fussie Cat and Tiki Cat/Dog is human grade canned. Looks and smells exactly like good human food. In fact the tuna they use in Fussie Cat cans is the same tuna they use at Subway.... Thailand is WAY high quality. China not so much....
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I checked my passport, yep been there three times like I thought. Not sure why you are talking about England because Thailand became independent before 1900. Trust me Thailand is filthy and diseases like typhoid and hepatitis and a few other nasty bugs are widespread. Thailand is nothing like Singapore, Japan or South Korea in terms of food safety, health care, sanitation or life expectancy. Thai people die rather young from infectious diseases easily treated in other countries. Sanitation is terrible there.


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

Bumper1 said:


> I looked at the formulas last night and they are very high in animal protein.


Well you looked at the formulas long before the 30th no? After all, your first posts were advertising this food


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> I checked my passport, yep been there three times like I thought. Not sure why you are talking about England because Thailand became independent before 1900. Trust me Thailand is filthy and diseases like typhoid and hepatitis and a few other nasty bugs are widespread. Thailand is nothing like Singapore, Japan or South Korea in terms of food safety, health care, sanitation or life expectancy. Thai people die rather young from infectious diseases easily treated in other countries. Sanitation is terrible there.


I don't think you are understanding.... Thailand may be a not so great country but canned pet food made in Thailand is one of the best out there as far as quality. I'm talking about England because the EU looks over thailands food production. I don't need a history lesson. I realize they are an independent country but they DO NOT have like their own FDA... That's why the EU regulates them. The EU is double the standards we are.... Like I said the same Tuna you find in like Fussie Cat cans made in Thailand is the SAME tuna they use at Subway. It's VERY high quality human food. Thailand is not a country you have to worry about..... China is.... 


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Link: http://petshops.about.com/od/petfood/f/Pet-Foods-Made-In-Thailand.htm

Official name is the British Retail Consortium or the BRC.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Zilla said:


> I don't think you are understanding.... Thailand may be a not so great country but canned pet food made in Thailand is one of the best out there as far as quality. I'm talking about England because the EU looks over thailands food production. I don't need a history lesson. I realize they are an independent country but they DO NOT have like their own FDA... That's why the EU regulates them. The EU is double the standards we are.... Like I said the same Tuna you find in like Fussie Cat cans made in Thailand is the SAME tuna they use at Subway. It's VERY high quality human food. Thailand is not a country you have to worry about..... China is....
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



The EU does not "look over" food production in Thailand. Thailand is a sovereign country. And yes it does have an "FDA". 

http://www.fda.moph.go.th/eng/about/background.stm

You are talking about a trade organization of which the cannery is a member. It is a voluntary organization not a governmental agency.

*The only reason why an American company would contract with a cannery in Thailand is cost, most likely because of work rules and possible grant incentives from the Thai government to defray shipping costs. Plain and simple. Third word countries will often use financial incentives which are indirectly US tax dollars and World Bank funds which again are US tax dollars to create jobs. 
*
The company has done a good job explaining away the Thai link by having Tracie Hotchner say "Thailand has strict laws about pet food ingredients". I highly doubt that in a country where dog is eaten they even care about pet food. I didn't look at every part of the Thai FDA website but there is no mention of pet food. Most people there have a hard enough time feeding themselves.

I have no issue with pet food coming from Thailand, mind you, I am just saying there is an economic reason for it and the company has effectively rationalized it with blogger publicity making it seem like Thailand is a mecca for health and food safety, which it is not.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Regardless of whether they are a poor country or not they are regulated the BRC.... Which is way more strict than even the US.... Have you ever opened a can of Weruva, Tiki Dog, or Fussie Cat?? You'd probably change your mind after that.... I'm just saying.... Weruva is one of the most popular human grade cans. It smells like people food. Not dog food. 


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Zilla said:


> So if this is true Im very interested to see it because I know how much higher their standards are. Wouldnt this be the first European company to be on the U.S. market? Word is their ND grain free line is coming. I hear its going to be here late September. Might give Orijen a run for their money depending on the pricing.
> Link: Farmina ND Canine
> 
> Saw this on another forum from TruthAboutPetFood:


The US website is up lots of good information and 13 formulas for dogs and cats.

http://usa.farmina.com/?q=content/line/nd-grain-free-canine


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

I saw that. I'm waiting for a response from them about distributors.... Hopefully they get back to me soon 


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## Indigo (Mar 31, 2011)

Bumper1 said:


> Canada is about exciting culturally as a shoe


That is kind of offensive, thanks bud. :/
And what the hell does that have to do with dog food?


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## GLiO (Aug 12, 2013)

Royal Canin is a French company and offered in the US 

This sounds like a good company though.


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## Zilla (May 11, 2013)

Indigo said:


> That is kind of offensive, thanks bud. :/
> And what the hell does that have to do with dog food?


Lol isn't that mean?? That's what I was thinking and I don't even live in Canada.... 

And no one likes crappy foods that infiltrate the vet colleges... Aka royal Canin..... The day that the world turns around is the day the schools kick Science Diet and Royal Canin to the curb.... I hope that day comes sooner than later 


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## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

Bumper1 said:


> Canada is about exciting culturally as a shoe


Actually I have some shoes which have been quite a talking point in US restaurants

although, just realised that I bought them in England :doh:


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

mcdavis said:


> Actually I have some shoes which have been quite a talking point in US restaurants
> 
> although, just realised that I bought them in England :doh:


When I lived in Korea, the trend was for men to wear these really really long and pointy shoes. Like elves almost. I asked the men why they wore these way oversized shoes and they told me because the girls thought them attractive. So I asked the girls why the men wore those long and ski-like shoes... they had no idea of course 

I think the old joke about Canada and yogurt (one has live and active cultures!) isn't true. Maybe for some places but there are boring towns everywhere.

As for the food-- it looks good but not like anything amazing and new. Typical grain free with potatoes, moderately high protein. If the price was right I would certainly try it but I wouldn't go out of my way to purchase it either.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Shell said:


> When I lived in Korea, the trend was for men to wear these really really long and pointy shoes. Like elves almost. I asked the men why they wore these way oversized shoes and they told me because the girls thought them attractive. So I asked the girls why the men wore those long and ski-like shoes... they had no idea of course
> 
> I think the old joke about Canada and yogurt (one has live and active cultures!) isn't true. Maybe for some places but there are boring towns everywhere.
> 
> As for the food-- it looks good but not like anything amazing and new. Typical grain free with potatoes, moderately high protein. If the price was right I would certainly try it but I wouldn't go out of my way to purchase it either.



That's because you can't read a GA or ingredient list. There are very few foods with such high animal protein and such low ash made with vacuum infusion and a liquid vitamin that is not exposed to heat.

Moderate protein? 37% - 42%, and 95% - 96% animal protein content is moderate? Potato is very minor ingredient in these foods. Carbohydrate content is as low as 16%, like Evo but with much better quality meats. These animal protein content numbers are higher than both Orijen and Acana. Champion refuses to publish this number since they stuffed the food with lentils.

The line with grains is 30% - 35% and 92% -93% animal protein, the norm is about 75% or lower.

These are actually very unique formulas ingredient-wise and production-wise. There isn't another pet food company using this technology or grade of ingredient. To make a 42% protein food that is 96% animal protein with 8.60% ash and 1.5% calcium and 1% phosphorous is pretty darn impressive.

And how many companies disclose the names of the suppliers right on the website and file a signed document as to what countries supply the ingredients?


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> These animal protein content numbers are higher than Orijen. Champion refuses to publish this number since they stuffed the food with lentils.


Incorrect on both accounts. According to Champion 98% of the protein content in Orijen is animal protein. They also responded immediately to my inquiry.

The food does look good and I like the company's values, so, assuming the price point is reasonable, I will be adding it to my rotation.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Bumper1 said:


> That's because you can't read a GA or ingredient list.


Or I could just have a different opinion on the food than you have.....
The food looks good, I just don't see the food as some sort of holy grail of amazing that you seem to see it as. 

First few ingredients of the adult chicken recipe:
Deboned chicken, dehydrated chicken, potato, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dehydrated egg product

Potato is the 3rd ingredient so I wouldn't quite say that it is a "very minor ingredient", deboned chicken as a first ingredient is good but includes the water weight so the dehydrated chicken listed 2nd is good to see. 

The protein content is moderate IMO-- higher than many but not higher than a typical dog does well on. "Moderate" isn't an insult. However, for many dogs, the drop to the more common 30-32% protein suits them just fine and the price point of those foods can be a lot easier on the wallet than this food is likely to be priced at. The ash is good for a high meat content food 
(Chicken formula) -- Crude Protein (min): 37.00%; Crude Fat (min): 18.00%; Crude Fiber (max): 2.60%; Moisture (max): 10.00%; Ash (max): 7.80%

It looks fairly similar to Wellness CORE for example with the exception that CORE does have peas. People may or may not care about that
Core Chicken Formula first few ingredients:
Deboned Turkey, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Peas, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potatoes, Chicken Fat

Crude Protein Not less than 34% ; Crude Fat Not less than 16%; Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10%

Edit to add:
Orijen doesn't exactly stuff their food with lentils as you say. Here's the Orijen Adult dog 80/20 formula --- see how many meats come before lentils...

Boneless chicken, chicken meal, chicken liver, whole herring, boneless turkey, turkey meal, turkey liver, whole eggs, boneless walleye, whole salmon, chicken heart, chicken cartilage, herring meal, salmon meal, chicken liver oil,* red lentils*

Protein min 38%, ash content max 8%


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Emmett said:


> Incorrect on both accounts. According to Champion 98% of the protein content in Orijen is animal protein. They also responded immediately to my inquiry.
> 
> The food does look good and I like the company's values, so, assuming the price point is reasonable, I will be adding it to my rotation.


I asked Champion the same thing and that was the answer, except that is not dry matter basis. Lentils and similar legumes are 60% starch, so at 25% total carbohydrate, legumes are about 30 -35% of the dry matter weight. This means that animal protein content is about 85%. You can also tell by how high the fiber is. If the food was indeed 98% animal protein of total protein, they would publish it, not tell you over the phone.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Shell said:


> Or I could just have a different opinion on the food than you have.....
> The food looks good, I just don't see the food as some sort of holy grail of amazing that you seem to see it as.
> 
> First few ingredients of the adult chicken recipe:
> ...


You don't understand labeling it is pretty obvious. Champion's optics are to split lots of ingredients that contain water and then split the legumes several ways so it appears that there is more animal protein than there actually is.

These foods have nothing in common with Core, Core is a good product but nowhere near the protein or animal protein content.

Just as an example, here is the 42% Farmina formula:

"Deboned chicken, dehydrated chicken (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), potato, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dehydrated egg product, herring (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), dehydrated herring (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), herring & salmon oil blend (preserved with mixed tocopherols)"

Potato is #3 correct, with 2% protein, but what you don't know is that the first two ingredients are 55% (this is on the Italian website, the US does not allow weight labeling), with dehydrated chicken at 27% Potato is 10% or less. There are three protein sources after potato, two of which are concentrated with egg at 90% protein and dried herring at 65% protein. 

So at 42% total protein, the food has to be 65% dehydrated animal protein. Orijen is much lower because dried legumes have over 10 times the protein as potato.

The order of the ingredients does not tell you much unless you have the formula or do the math.

The other Farmina GF formulas have the same carbohydrate content as Orijen but higher animal protein levels because potato has a fraction the protein that lentils have.

Math doesn't lie.

If you want to understand the Orijen label, adjust all the wet ingredients and combine them and then add the peas, green lentils, red lentils and chickpeas together, what you will find is something that they wall paper over.

I was just looking at the Champion website. The ingredient list shows yams, pumpkin, butternut squash, spinach, carrots, apples, pears, cranberries and blueberries as "fresh". I didn't realize the climate in Canada was so moderate that all these veggies and fruit grew year-round. LOL


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