# Grain Free Bil-Jac



## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

I know bil-jac it's self if not good, but has any one seen the new grain free? I was hoping dog food adviser would have some thing on it, but it doesn't.

I like how when it's wet it turns almost to powder, and my picky eater loved the samples.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Everyone is getting on the grain free/corn free boat now and it's starting to make me wary of grain free/corn free foods... If EVERY company seems to be doing it, from Ol' Roy to Purina to Iams to Rachael Ray, how can we know they're really THAT much better? But that's just me... I really wish I had the resources and money to go back to raw.


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## TXTorres (Mar 31, 2013)

Too many other, better grain free foods for me to ever try this. 

They are definitely jumping on the grain free train by putting this out there. It just makes you wonder, considering this company has praised the benefits of corn for so long. 

I do feed their PB Nana treats sometimes though


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Check DFA now, the review is out. I'll pass though.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

Darn, my picky eater really likes it. oh well.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

zeronightfarm said:


> I know bil-jac it's self if not good, but has any one seen the new grain free? I was hoping dog food adviser would have some thing on it, but it doesn't.
> 
> I like how when it's wet it turns almost to powder, and my picky eater loved the samples.


Who says Bil-Jac isn't good? DFA? Well the Chairperson of the Health Committee of the Great Dane Club of America uses regular Bil-Jac and has for about 20 years. She is well known and highly respected. It is not hard to find some really smart dog people using that food. My mother's King Charles Spaniels eat the low fat formula and one is 14 and healthy as a horse. Those diets, the pellet method, creates an extremely digestible food. It is very hard to make that food that is why it is probably the only pellet left.

I did the calculation once that the animal protein ratio was about 93%.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Why does it being used by someone well known automatically make it good?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

They say that there's 20 pounds of chicken used to make a 24-pound bag of the food, so if that's true it should have a lot of meat content. But I can't figure out why it only has 30% protein if that is true. With the chicken and the fish meal, it really should be higher than that. Eh. It's not bad but you could probably do better for the price.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Kayota said:


> Why does it being used by someone well known automatically make it good?


Well, because that person is an internationally known expert in the field of dog health. Her name is JP Yousha if you are interested.


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## domika (Jul 1, 2012)

Kayota said:


> Why does it being used by someone well known automatically make it good?


Right?! I was gonna say, Ellen Degeneres makes a food and its not quite on the top of my "to try" list


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## zhaor (Jul 2, 2009)

Willowy said:


> They say that there's 20 pounds of chicken used to make a 24-pound bag of the food, so if that's true it should have a lot of meat content. But I can't figure out why it only has 30% protein if that is true. With the chicken and the fish meal, it really should be higher than that. Eh. It's not bad but you could probably do better for the price.


I don't really feel like googling for things so can you give me a link to where they said that?

What I'm assuming is 20lb of water inclusive meat = ~5-6lb dehydrated. Then take lets say about 60-65% protein from that and you'd get about maybe 4lb of protein at most, which would still only be 17% of a 24lb bag. I'd expect the actual protein from chicken to be lower than that so it's not really that surprising it's only a 30% protein food.

As for everyone jumping on the grain free train, well, it should be expected. When consumers start blindly thinking certain labels are better, companies will exploit that to sell more product. It's pretty simple marketing. Regardless what's actually the truth, tell people what they want to hear to sell people what they want to buy.

Really for me, my dog doesn't have any overly sensitive allergies so I only tend to avoid grains in commercial foods because there are more potential unlabeled toxins in grain inclusive foods than grain free ones of the same quality.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

Here's the Biljac site, the 20 pounds thing is in one of the yellow circles:http://www.bil-jac.com/dog-food-grain-free.php

But that's always been their claim, even for their regular food.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

My picky eater LOVES the regular bil jac. I may try it. I've fed nearly every food made, and only have seen a difference in a couple.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

Bumper1 said:


> Well, because that person is an internationally known expert in the field of dog health. Her name is JP Yousha if you are interested.


Even vets don't have proper training in canine nutrition...


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Kayota said:


> Even vets don't have proper training in canine nutrition...


You are extremely disrespectful and naïve. JP Yousha is held in very high regard and considered and expert in Great Dane Health globally and considered the top Great Dane geneticist. I really suggest you listen more than talk.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

zhaor said:


> I don't really feel like googling for things so can you give me a link to where they said that?
> 
> What I'm assuming is 20lb of water inclusive meat = ~5-6lb dehydrated. Then take lets say about 60-65% protein from that and you'd get about maybe 4lb of protein at most, which would still only be 17% of a 24lb bag. I'd expect the actual protein from chicken to be lower than that so it's not really that surprising it's only a 30% protein food.
> 
> ...


The regular Bil-Jac is 27% protein and over 90% of that is chicken protein. If you average the protein of corn and oats you get about 8%, and assume the foods are about 25% corn and oats, .08 times .25 is 2%. So (27-2)/27 eguals 93%. Even at 30% corn and oats the number is not much different. Fromm's grain free foods according to the company itself are about 70% animal protein.

Bil-Jac gets a bad rap, it is a quality food made very well.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

domika said:


> Right?! I was gonna say, Ellen Degeneres makes a food and its not quite on the top of my "to try" list


I recently had someone tell me, IRL, that Simply Nourish must be a good food because Rachael Ray makes it and she's a chef!
Really, do people think that just because someone has a famous name (Rachael, Ellen, Paul Newman, **** van Patten) that the food with their name or face on it is a good food?


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

InkedMarie said:


> I recently had someone tell me, IRL, that Simply Nourish must be a good food because Rachael Ray makes it and she's a chef!
> Really, do people think that just because someone has a famous name (Rachael, Ellen, Paul Newman, **** van Patten) that the food with their name or face on it is a good food?


What do chefs know about nutrition?

As for JP Yousha, she's not an actual geneticist (as in a person with a PhD in genetics), and while I might have missed something on her page (the whole thing is in italics), I don't see anything about health testing. What I do see is this:



> We deliberately do NOT raise "high-maintenance" or otherwise "fussy" dogs, & breed only dogs fundamentaly robust. We select specifically for physical vigor and a biddable temperament. So they are "naturally" healthy in the sense they either manage on this simple regime or don't get bred.


Um, okay.


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

Ok, I have been feeding my picky eater the sample bag (just 1/4 cup a day) and her poo is more firm, and less smelly, so I think I'm going to keep her on just the little bit since it is helping her out some.


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## PureMutt (Feb 6, 2009)

Where did you get a sample bag?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

It was given to me at the big dog show in Greenville, but all the local petsmarts sell the sample size bags for $3.99


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## momof3 (Nov 24, 2007)

I know some people with small breed pups feed it because it has molasses in it and helps keep blood sugar levels up. I know someone that has fed it for years and swears by it. I try to take dog food choices as I would religion choices, many people will have a different opinion and you should respect it,however just because something is working well for one dog doesn't mean that it will work well for another or vice versa.


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## HORSEandHOUND (May 28, 2009)

Willowy said:


> They say that there's 20 pounds of chicken used to make a 24-pound bag of the food, so if that's true it should have a lot of meat content. But I can't figure out why it only has 30% protein if that is true. With the chicken and the fish meal, it really should be higher than that. Eh. It's not bad but you could probably do better for the price.


 Because fresh chicken is 78% water


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

momof3 said:


> I know some people with small breed pups feed it because it has molasses in it and helps keep blood sugar levels up. I know someone that has fed it for years and swears by it. I try to take dog food choices as I would religion choices, many people will have a different opinion and you should respect it,however just because something is working well for one dog doesn't mean that it will work well for another or vice versa.


There is no molasses in the food. When there was there was 1 tablespoon in the entire 30lb bag.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

HORSEandHOUND said:


> Because fresh chicken is 78% water


Bil Jac is not kibble. Pellet foods don't have the same limits for using fresh meat. At 30% protein, that means on a dry matter basis, chicken and fish are about 50% of the food by weight.

Only 30% protein? Tthat is much more than any dog here will ever need. The meat protein content of this food is about 90% of total which is quite high. This food has more meat protein in it than Acana or Fromm.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Bumper1 said:


> Bil Jac is not kibble. Pellet foods don't have the same limits for using fresh meat. At 30% protein, that means on a dry matter basis, chicken and fish are about 50% of the food by weight.
> 
> Only 30% protein? Tthat is much more than any dog here will ever need. The meat protein content of this food is about 90% of total which is quite high. This food has more meat protein in it than Acana or Fromm.


Ideally, mine need 30-40% protein.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

Kayota said:


> Why does it being used by someone well known automatically make it good?


 Exactly! It gets old hearing people claim something is good because a famous face uses it/created it.

If the head of Peta fed Purina, does that mean we all should too? It must be good if they would feed it considering they advocate for animals well being all tbe time, just saying. You can't assume because someone well known feeds something that its good.

Personally, I think there is plenty of kibble choices that are higher quality close to the same price. I wouldn't feed the food, grain free or not. Grain free o ly says so much about an ingredient list.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

juliemule said:


> Ideally, mine need 30-40% protein.


I doubt that. Hunting trial dogs that train 3 days a week, running over 25 miles per week next to an ATV get along fine with 25% - 30% mid-priced foods. Studies have indicated that above 32% even racing sled dogs don't get much benefit.

So I would imagine your dog would do just fine on regular dog food.


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## Bumper1 (Jul 14, 2013)

Ivyrose said:


> Exactly! It gets old hearing people claim something is good because a famous face uses it/created it.
> 
> If the head of Peta fed Purina, does that mean we all should too? It must be good if they would feed it considering they advocate for animals well being all tbe time, just saying. You can't assume because someone well known feeds something that its good.
> 
> Personally, I think there is plenty of kibble choices that are higher quality close to the same price. I wouldn't feed the food, grain free or not. Grain free o ly says so much about an ingredient list.


Listen, when you accomplish what that person has, I will listen to you, but honestly don't count yourself in that league right now. Be honest with yourself.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Bumper1 said:


> I doubt that. Hunting trial dogs that train 3 days a week, running over 25 miles per week next to an ATV get along fine with 25% - 30% mid-priced foods. Studies have indicated that above 32% even racing sled dogs don't get much benefit.
> 
> So I would imagine your dog would do just fine on regular dog food.


There are also studies that show different lol.

Currently three of mine are in training five days a week. One is still underweight. Even with the added fats and oil. With high metabolism, tons of running, training, and working, it takes quite a bit to keep up with them.

Not only weight, energy levels are better with high fats rather than carbs. Dogs can handle higher protein ratios than initially thought. The studies that show kidney damage were done on rats. Protein over 30% actually keeps injury down in working dogs. Inflammatory fats (canola oil) also helps in k9 prevention of injury. Which is very important with high impact work and exercise.


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## Ivyrose (Aug 11, 2013)

Bumper1 said:


> Listen, when you accomplish what that person has, I will listen to you, but honestly don't count yourself in that league right now. Be honest with yourself.


Oh okay. You keep feeding your dogs based on the opinions of people whom have "accomplished" a lot and I will feed mine based off of years worth of research/scientific research out there, the history of what dogs survived on in the wild, etc. I honestly couldn't care less whether you listen to me, I answered a thread.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

I am being honest with myself... And I _honestly_ think that Pure Balance and The Honest Kitchen are loads better than Bil Jac, by far  Plus raw fish, sardines, eggs, yogurt, and canned pumpkin...


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Bumper1 said:


> I doubt that. Hunting trial dogs that train 3 days a week, running over 25 miles per week next to an ATV get along fine with 25% - 30% mid-priced foods. Studies have indicated that above 32% even racing sled dogs don't get much benefit.
> 
> So I would imagine your dog would do just fine on regular dog food.


You do realize she has working malinois SAR dogs, right?


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> You do realize she has working malinois SAR dogs, right?


Mine stay thin even with added fat and protein. I couldn't imagine them on lower % food. Once they hit five or so, and depending on individual dogs I usually can back down to just kibble with no additives. Really wish I could go to raw.


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