# I finally haz a Pit Bull



## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Axel is done with his ugly puppy stage!!!! 

When I got him-









Now-









BIG difference, right? I'm so glad his ears figured out where to be. 
I know I just posted a pic thread last week, but I'm a proud mama and had to show off my handsome boy!


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Oh god he's good looking! How old is he? He'll be a real stunner when he's all grow'd up! =)


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## savvy (Nov 6, 2012)

I don't mean to be rude, but I think you should do some research on Pit Bulls, these are one of the only dogs defined by their abilities. If it doesn't work, it isn't a Pit Bull! Even if it is registered by the UKC (which does not even consider Pit Bulls a breed of their own)
I usually call them Bully breeds or Bullies for short, since few are even registered and hardly any fit the standard it isn't really correct to call them by an actual breed name.
Many people mistake AmStaffs for Pit Bulls, but AmStaffs are the show/non working version of Pit Bulls, used to be the same breed but were separated by working and non working, American Pit Bull Terriers are 100% working dogs, and sadly many do bite because people do not give them enough physical and mental stimulation which working dogs demand.

Here is a link that can help you learn about Pit Bulls: http://www.workingpitbull.com/

I am not saying this to make you upset, I am saying it because the more educated people get on Pit Bulls the more the will realize that they are blaming the actions of dozens of different types of dogs on one breed.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

He's looking great! Do you think his ears will stay like that? How's Hallie feeling about him now?



savvy said:


> I don't mean to be rude, but I think you should do some research on Pit Bulls, these are one of the only dogs defined by their abilities. If it doesn't work, it isn't a Pit Bull! Even if it is registered by the UKC (which does not even consider Pit Bulls a breed of their own)
> I usually call them Bully breeds or Bullies for short, since few are even registered and hardly any fit the standard it isn't really correct to call them by an actual breed name.
> Many people mistake AmStaffs for Pit Bulls, but AmStaffs are the show/non working version of Pit Bulls, used to be the same breed but were separated by working and non working, American Pit Bull Terriers are 100% working dogs, and sadly many do bite because people do not give them enough physical and mental stimulation which working dogs demand.
> 
> ...


Did you register just to post that? On a puppy picture thread? I actually appreciate the even and kind tone of your post and agree with a lot of what you said, but this has been rehashed and beaten to death on every forum, ever. Your opinion may be better received if you create a new and completely separate topic in the General Dog forum. 

Welcome to DF from another Oregonian, though!


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## savvy (Nov 6, 2012)

I have been using Yahoo Answers for years and wanted to try something new, but the format with forums is completely different, saying something like I did but on Yahoo Answers would have been considered completely normal for someone enthusiastic about Pit Bulls.

But no, I did not register just to post that, on Yahoo Answers you get every idiot with a Yahoo account asking question and a gazillion trolls, but on here there are more dog lovers and the occasional idiot =P
I also am in a few Yahoo groups, but people on there are so set in their ways and often get angry at me for simply having a different view or opinion on things. I rarely tell people they are wrong, I like to provide information and sources and let them decide for themselves, the only downside to that is few people care enough to actually do any research :/ ...


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Oh, I've been there and done that, too. You'll like the forums more, but I can make no guarantees against trolls and the insane 

Your post wasn't out of the ordinary, as I've said it's a big topic that's been brought up and kicked around many times on multiple forums, but there are better approaches. The nice thing was how kindly you worded it, it was clear you weren't trying to be superior or carry out some type of personal vendetta, so I appreciated that. I've seen some nasty disputes over such topics.

I'm not attempting to tell you what you should or should not do, or how forums work - just wanted to throw out a suggestion. No one tries to keep everything rainbows and butterflies, and I personally welcome new opinions (especially when they are voiced considerately as yours was). But Sarah/"Hallie" is a friend and very excited about her new puppy and an excellent dog owner, so I felt compelled to respond. Some people will post controversial comments just to stir up drama or feel superior, and I'm really glad that isn't the case here. 

After all, you're a Shepherd person, an APBT enthusiast, and an Oregonian. My three favorite things


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

CoverTune said:


> Oh god he's good looking! How old is he? He'll be a real stunner when he's all grow'd up! =)


Thank you! He's 4.5 months. I can't wait to see what other changes are in store for him, he looked so different as a puppy! 



savvy said:


> I don't mean to be rude, but I think you should do some research on Pit Bulls, these are one of the only dogs defined by their abilities. If it doesn't work, it isn't a Pit Bull! Even if it is registered by the UKC (which does not even consider Pit Bulls a breed of their own)
> I usually call them Bully breeds or Bullies for short, since few are even registered and hardly any fit the standard it isn't really correct to call them by an actual breed name.
> Many people mistake AmStaffs for Pit Bulls, but AmStaffs are the show/non working version of Pit Bulls, used to be the same breed but were separated by working and non working, American Pit Bull Terriers are 100% working dogs, and sadly many do bite because people do not give them enough physical and mental stimulation which working dogs demand.
> 
> ...


You're fine.  Thankfully, before I got Axel, I put down a deposit for an AmStaff a month earlier and had done a lot of research on bullly breeds. So when Axel came along, I thought I knew what I was getting into. Interestingly enough, Axel is a lazy bum. I was actually hoping I'd have a dog I could do Shutzhund with, or agility, but Axel hates to work. As for his breed, he's a rescue of sorts. He was confiscated from a dog fighting area in an abandoned house. I did meet the crappy 'owner' when he tried to reclaim Axel and his brother, and I learned a bit of his parentage. He is an APBT, and not an AmStaff. Especially with Pits, registration means next to nothing. It's pedigrees that matter. Axel has one, but it's with his crappy owner. His owner may have sucked, but he bred some nice working APBTs. I don't care about the 'pureness' of Axel, but I do call him an APBT without pedigree in hand because I know where he came from. He'll never be bred. He's getting neutered and started in his therapy dog training and obedience. 

I actually appreciate your information, the average first time bully breed owner has done no research at all, and this is a breed where research is absolutely necessary. However, I did extensive research and waited 6 months before I decided I wanted a bully breed. I'm not your typical dog owner. Well, since we're on a forum because we love dogs so much, none of us are. 



Equinox said:


> He's looking great! Do you think his ears will stay like that? How's Hallie feeling about him now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Hallie absolutely loves him! I sure hope his ears stay that way, they frame his head better. He's growing up on me already! I try to be modest about how handsome he is, but honestly, even I'm surprised that he's turning into such a stunning dog.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Very cute. And you can always just go with (read this in a happy squealing tone) PIBBLE!  
I like how much white he has on his chest, it makes the black coat flashier (and easier to photograph!). Our all black litter is soooo hard to get a good picture of.

And really, I know the terms can cause a lot of controversy, but "If it doesn't work, it isn't a Pit Bull!" ? Come on, there are tons of breeds that are used for uses other than their original breeding, doesn't mean they aren't those breeds. Besides, I quite prefer people not use these dogs for one of their original intended uses. UKC registers the APBT, commonly shortened to Pit Bull.
I agree that they need exercise, but I completely disagree with your comment that "many do bite" due to lack of exercise. A reasonably active and loving pet home can give the typical pit bull type enough exercise. Saying that many bite is doing the same disservice to these type of dogs that you are trying to prevent from others.


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## Salina (Sep 2, 2012)

He is just soooo cute...but c'mon, the floppy, weird positioned ears in the first pic are adorable :-D just soooooooo super cute <3


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

If that was an ugly puppy you'd best never show me a cute one. My brains would EXPLODE!!


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

He is beautiful in every way


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## savvy (Nov 6, 2012)

> And really, I know the terms can cause a lot of controversy, but "If it doesn't work, it isn't a Pit Bull!" ? Come on, there are tons of breeds that are used for uses other than their original breeding, doesn't mean they aren't those breeds. Besides, I quite prefer people not use these dogs for one of their original intended uses. UKC registers the APBT, commonly shortened to Pit Bull.
> I agree that they need exercise, but I completely disagree with your comment that "many do bite" due to lack of exercise. A reasonably active and loving pet home can give the typical pit bull type enough exercise. Saying that many bite is doing the same disservice to these type of dogs that you are trying to prevent from others.


If you don't want to learn about them, you don't have to, but the link I posted is full of good information.

The UKC does have a registration for American Pit Bull Terriers, but it is close to meaningless because they do not even consider them a breed of their own and allow duo registries with AmStaffs and Pit Bulls.
A few of a Pit Bulls original functions would be illegal today, and as for farm work people have little need for even horses now. I do not believe in breeding pets because there are so many good dogs in shelters, so really I don't think you should take any working breed and make it into a pet, but that is another story. 
Malinois are another breed defined by their ability and unable to be pets, which is why many prefer them in Schutzhund rather than German Shepherds because it is hard to find a good Shepherd because they have been so diluted and messed up by people. 
But Pit Bulls can do just about any dog sport, I think all of them should be professionally trained in Schutzhund, but there are many sports that will stimulate a working dogs mind and body.

Here are some Pit Bulls: http://www.matrixkennels.com/
Their dogs encompass what a Pit Bull should be.

Pit Bulls also are amazing in weight pulling, you'll wind people with these mutants they call 'american bullies' but a real Pit Bull is compact and pulls a very impressive amount for their size, american bullies are over twice the size of a Pit Bull but don't pull twice the weight! Every Pit should have some form of a Springpole too, while it doesn't do much for the mind Pit Bulls are build for this type of this and it exercised them in ways a run cannot. I wouldn't suggest having any other type of dog on a Springpole though because it is for dogs with a lot of muscle around their neck, head and jaw!


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## savvy (Nov 6, 2012)

> You're fine. Thankfully, before I got Axel, I put down a deposit for an AmStaff a month earlier and had done a lot of research on bullly breeds. So when Axel came along, I thought I knew what I was getting into. Interestingly enough, Axel is a lazy bum. I was actually hoping I'd have a dog I could do Shutzhund with, or agility, but Axel hates to work. As for his breed, he's a rescue of sorts. He was confiscated from a dog fighting area in an abandoned house. I did meet the crappy 'owner' when he tried to reclaim Axel and his brother, and I learned a bit of his parentage. He is an APBT, and not an AmStaff. Especially with Pits, registration means next to nothing. It's pedigrees that matter. Axel has one, but it's with his crappy owner. His owner may have sucked, but he bred some nice working APBTs. I don't care about the 'pureness' of Axel, but I do call him an APBT without pedigree in hand because I know where he came from. He'll never be bred. He's getting neutered and started in his therapy dog training and obedience.
> 
> I actually appreciate your information, the average first time bully breed owner has done no research at all, and this is a breed where research is absolutely necessary. However, I did extensive research and waited 6 months before I decided I wanted a bully breed. I'm not your typical dog owner. Well, since we're on a forum because we love dogs so much, none of us are.


If he did come from fighting lines you can be sure he will be extremely people friendly! Any dog that shows a sign of human aggression is usually culled to keep it out of the genes. People hardly ever adopt a fighting dog from a shelter, but really if they are an only dog they are very loving pets! If Axel hasn't shown any signs of dog aggression toward Hallie I doubt he will ever be aggressive toward her, but he may still be somewhat aggressive toward other dogs. Many people think aggressive means vicious, but dogs like Pit Bulls, Rottweilers and German Shepherds need it to be a good working dog, it can simply mean the dog is willing to protect itself!
My Shepherd Draco lets my brothers Lab bite him and will roll over on his back if he snaps at him, but he doesn't like any other dog coming near his home, he is territorial aggressive, but he is very friendly away from home .


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Shell said:


> Very cute. And you can always just go with (read this in a happy squealing tone) PIBBLE!
> I like how much white he has on his chest, it makes the black coat flashier (and easier to photograph!). Our all black litter is soooo hard to get a good picture of.
> 
> And really, I know the terms can cause a lot of controversy, but "If it doesn't work, it isn't a Pit Bull!" ? Come on, there are tons of breeds that are used for uses other than their original breeding, doesn't mean they aren't those breeds. Besides, I quite prefer people not use these dogs for one of their original intended uses. UKC registers the APBT, commonly shortened to Pit Bull.
> I agree that they need exercise, but I completely disagree with your comment that "many do bite" due to lack of exercise. A reasonably active and loving pet home can give the typical pit bull type enough exercise. Saying that many bite is doing the same disservice to these type of dogs that you are trying to prevent from others.


Thank you! Yes, all black dogs are really hard to get pictures of. With Axel (he's my first black one) I had an issue with him being too shiny and even in natural light it looked like I had used flash, and the pics came out terrible. I have to wait til the sun is just right to get good pics. His chest does make him flashy! Especially now since he's growing into it. I told my mom he was a 'pibble' and she thought I was calling him a pebble.  



Salina said:


> He is just soooo cute...but c'mon, the floppy, weird positioned ears in the first pic are adorable :-D just soooooooo super cute <3


 I admit it! It was! Sometimes they'd flop over his eyes. 


Hambonez said:


> If that was an ugly puppy you'd best never show me a cute one. My brains would EXPLODE!!


haha! He was cute in his 'ugly' stage, he just looked so funny! 


Abbylynn said:


> He is beautiful in every way


 Thank you, Abbylynn! It's fun to have a two pretty pups. Axel has really made Hallie more active. 


savvy said:


> If he did come from fighting lines you can be sure he will be extremely people friendly! Any dog that shows a sign of human aggression is usually culled to keep it out of the genes. People hardly ever adopt a fighting dog from a shelter, but really if they are an only dog they are very loving pets! If Axel hasn't shown any signs of dog aggression toward Hallie I doubt he will ever be aggressive toward her, but he may still be somewhat aggressive toward other dogs. Many people think aggressive means vicious, but dogs like Pit Bulls, Rottweilers and German Shepherds need it to be a good working dog, it can simply mean the dog is willing to protect itself!
> My Shepherd Draco lets my brothers Lab bite him and will roll over on his back if he snaps at him, but he doesn't like any other dog coming near his home, he is territorial aggressive, but he is very friendly away from home .


His brother was full on DA at 3 months. I originally wanted his brother until he was aggressive towards Hallie, so I decided I'd meet his brother. I temperament tested Axel with newborn kittens, children, wheelchairs, cars, birds, guinea pigs, lizards, men, and dogs. He passed with flying colors. No DA.  He plays with Hallie, and I can see how someone could easily misinterpret it with aggression. He snarls, curls his lip, and lunges at her, but they are just playing. Axel is also very vocal, and has a very deep 70lb dog voice that he knows how to use. So... it'd be easy for someone to think he is trying to kill her, but he just sounds vicious. Lots of pits get dubbed DA when they truly aren't. Axel needs to work on his manners as far as seeing another dog on a leash goes. He gets extremely excited and tries to play with the dog, he doesn't understand until he gets snapped at. Then he walks away with his head down and his tail between his legs.  Silly boy. He's being socialized like crazy, and so far we haven't had any problems. He plays very gently with other dogs, but with Hallie he knows he can be rougher. It's neat to see how differently he treats other dogs vs. Hallie. He shows friendly curiosity towards other dogs, but gives them lots of space. He spends hours playing with Hallie. If she doesn't want to play, he leaves her alone. If he doesn't want to play, she leaves him alone. 

So far I'm extremely happy with my choice of an APBT. He's been a breeze to train, and he's never met a stranger. It's awesome. He's gonna be a smaller APBT in many people's eyes, but he'll fit the standard at 45lbs.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

savvy said:


> If you don't want to learn about them, you don't have to, but the link I posted is full of good information.
> 
> The UKC does have a registration for American Pit Bull Terriers, but it is close to meaningless because they do not even consider them a breed of their own and allow duo registries with AmStaffs and Pit Bulls.
> A few of a Pit Bulls original functions would be illegal today, and as for farm work people have little need for even horses now. I do not believe in breeding pets because there are so many good dogs in shelters, so really I don't think you should take any working breed and make it into a pet, but that is another story.
> ...


Those are good looking dogs, a little chesty IMO.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

savvy said:


> I do not believe in breeding pets because there are so many good dogs in shelters, so really I don't think you should take any working breed and make it into a pet, but that is another story.
> Malinois are another breed defined by their ability and unable to be pets, which is why many prefer them in Schutzhund rather than German Shepherds because it is hard to find a good Shepherd because they have been so diluted and messed up by people.


To be honest, if German Shepherd breeders stopped selling dogs to pet homes, I will likely never own a German Shepherd Dog again. I look for very specific traits in even pet/companion dogs, and many of those traits are also what make for a good working dog. I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive. 




savvy said:


> If Axel hasn't shown any signs of dog aggression toward Hallie I doubt he will ever be aggressive toward her, but he may still be somewhat aggressive toward other dogs.


In my limited experience, that is wholly untrue. My German Shepherd Dog became dog reactive somewhere over 1 year of age, and then selectively same sex reactive sometime after 2 years of age. On one occasion he had met with a Labrador Retriever owned by a neighbor, a dog he used to play with regularly, and in a split second he was out to kill. It was the first (albeit only) time I had seen him act truly aggressive towards a dog, and he had never had any issues with him in the past, or even through a fence. 

And that's not even a breed with a history and origins in dog fighting. I have friends who have owned multiple dogs that spent their entire lives with each other, and still have to be crated and rotated and kept away from each other. 



savvy said:


> My Shepherd Draco lets my brothers Lab bite him and will roll over on his back if he snaps at him, but he doesn't like any other dog coming near his home, he is territorial aggressive, but he is very friendly away from home .


My dog is inclined to do the same. Unfortunately for him, I gave him a good talking to about the territory belonging to me, and thus reminding him that he has no business trying to defend it. I like bringing other dogs into my home, and there they are my guests 



Hallie said:


> Thank you! Yes, all black dogs are really hard to get pictures of. With Axel (he's my first black one) I had an issue with him being too shiny and even in natural light it looked like I had used flash, and the pics came out terrible. I have to wait til the sun is just right to get good pics.


I've had the exact same problem with Trent! Too dark and his coat blends right in, too bright/too much harsh lighting and he's just patches of bright shiny coat. 



Hallie said:


> His brother was full on DA at 3 months. I originally wanted his brother until he was aggressive towards Hallie, so I decided I'd meet his brother. I temperament tested Axel with newborn kittens, children, wheelchairs, cars, birds, guinea pigs, lizards, men, and dogs. He passed with flying colors. No DA.


Just going to repeat what I said before about 3-4 months being too early to assess a dog for DA. I'm not in the know when it comes to the breed, but I wouldn't try to look at a 4 month old German Shepherd puppy and decide that he has no defense drives/reactive aggression and won't bite a perceived threat "for real"  

I know you'll be a great owner and will always carefully manage your dogs no matter what, but I did find the assessment a little premature.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Savvy, I sent you a PM - did you receive it? 



Hallie said:


> Those are good looking dogs, a little chesty IMO.


One breeder's page I love to look at: 

http://www.ampitbull.com/bitches.htm

http://www.ampitbull.com/AdultDogs.htm

By the way, I was wondering what happened you getting your blue Am Staff pup! I'm glad you wound up with Axel, but I'm a bit biased


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Equinox said:


> Savvy, I sent you a PM - did you receive it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree it is early. However, his brother was DA at 3 months. I'm taking a different approach with Axel than is commonly taken with potentially DA dogs. He's going to be at the kennel club being a demo dog every week. If he starts to become reactive at all I WILL correct it. Thankfully, he's extremely submissive and has already learned to focus on me regardless of distractions. Even if he isn't friendly with other dogs (worst case) he will tolerate them. I will train him extensively in the event that he develops any dislike towards any dog. We'll see, so far so good. Hopefully he just ignores other dogs, Hallie is dog crazy so shows are difficult with her trying to meet everyone. 

The blue brindle AmStaff from champion lines? *Sigh* I was on the fence about him, and then I met Axel, and fell off the fence into Axel's puppy love. 
But really, I didn't particularly like the AmStaff breeder, and I didn't want to take his word on the dog's temperament. He didn't have birds, kittens, and lizards and the puppy was 4.5 months old... IMO already old enough to want to eat my animals regardless of what I did. He was a beautiful show quality pup, but he couldn't be shown due to an umbilical hernia that he had a scar from. I guess it just didn't happen, but I'm glad! I love my Axel boy.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

In that case, it definitely sounds like Axel was the best choice to make and that everything worked out as it should! You definitely have the advantage of having gotten to test and work with Axel and his brother to assess them yourself. I'm very excited to see him grow up, he'll be a model canine ambassador and a stunner, too.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

What a real cutie and I love the black dogs with a white chest..hence profile pic..ha..ha..gorgeous baby you have there!

and he will be fine not working,all dogs were bred to work in one from or another,whether it's to guard,hunt,bait lots of things.Does anyone really ever use the dog they have for what is was originally bred for? I think not.Long time pitbull owner here and now Amstaff(hubby has had over 40 + years with pitbulls)..ask me anything you would like.
To clarify any registration arguments, my boy is 9 time club registered,he is AKC Amstaff UKC as APBT he is registered with ADBA,American Bullie,NKC,NAPR,Dog Registry of America and the list goes on,he is also AKC DNA profiled! So...I say he is an Amstaff because he is AKC but he can be referred to as APBT or American Bully.UKC has since closed their registry books.APBT cannot be dual registered as AMSTAFFS.

Just remember Hallie,there is always going to be negative comments and sometimes even fightening words surrounding the pitbulls and yes AMSTAFFS! Don't take it to heart,just keep moving and learn from the ones that actually know and move on.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

Hallie,
here is our newest addition,he just turned one! black with white chest alot like your Axel!


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## minnesnowta (Sep 30, 2012)

I fell in love with a pittie at a local rescue group and it broke my heart when the property manager of my association said I couldn't adopt him beacuse the association outlawed the breed. It took me a long time to get over it, then my boyfriend surprised me with Cooper. I still want to rescue him though. He has been there since February.  He is sweet as pie and wouldn't hurt a fly. I HATE that the breed has been labeled to be so vicious. 

Congrats on your little guy, he is ADORABLE.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Equinox said:


> In that case, it definitely sounds like Axel was the best choice to make and that everything worked out as it should! You definitely have the advantage of having gotten to test and work with Axel and his brother to assess them yourself. I'm very excited to see him grow up, he'll be a model canine ambassador and a stunner, too.


 Thank you, Grace! I hope he grows up to be as stunning as your Trent. I'll keep you updating, and you'll see lots of pics on Facebook.


Bear2010 said:


> What a real cutie and I love the black dogs with a white chest..hence profile pic..ha..ha..gorgeous baby you have there!
> 
> and he will be fine not working,all dogs were bred to work in one from or another,whether it's to guard,hunt,bait lots of things.Does anyone really ever use the dog they have for what is was originally bred for? I think not.Long time pitbull owner here and now Amstaff(hubby has had over 40 + years with pitbulls)..ask me anything you would like.
> To clarify any registration arguments, my boy is 9 time club registered,he is AKC Amstaff UKC as APBT he is registered with ADBA,American Bullie,NKC,NAPR,Dog Registry of America and the list goes on,he is also AKC DNA profiled! So...I say he is an Amstaff because he is AKC but he can be referred to as APBT or American Bully.UKC has since closed their registry books.APBT cannot be dual registered as AMSTAFFS.
> ...


 Thank you. I've had countless negative comments, but I've had a few nice ones. 1 nice comment = 10 bad ones.  
The thing about Axel is, even for a puppy, he has no drive. He isn't entergetic. He's extremely mellow and lazy. If he's like this as a puppy... I imagine he wouldn't be a good working dog later. So far he hates to work. Most APBT puppies at his age already love to work, and have been started. Axel just wouldn't do it. 
Your boy is gorgeous! He's much blockier than Axel, but Axel is turning out to not be as stream lined as working ABPTs. \



minnesnowta said:


> I fell in love with a pittie at a local rescue group and it broke my heart when the property manager of my association said I couldn't adopt him beacuse the association outlawed the breed. It took me a long time to get over it, then my boyfriend surprised me with Cooper. I still want to rescue him though. He has been there since February.  He is sweet as pie and wouldn't hurt a fly. I HATE that the breed has been labeled to be so vicious.
> 
> Congrats on your little guy, he is ADORABLE.


Thank you! Before I got Axel, years and years ago, I had a similar experience. I fell in love with a Pit at the shelter. He was so so sweet, but the shelter wouldn't/couldn't adopt pits out, so he was destined for euthanasia.  It's sad, but it is getting better. The more positive exposure the breed gets, the better.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

savvy said:


> If Axel hasn't shown any signs of dog aggression toward Hallie I doubt he will ever be aggressive toward her, but he may still be somewhat aggressive toward other dogs.


I'm going to disagree on this one. Dog aggression can and does crop up around maturity even between "buddies" I think Hallie is prepared to deal proactively but saying it is doubtful that he will ever be aggressive is making a pretty big jump when the dog is well under 1 year old. 

Disagreeing with you on the breed's purpose and requirements doesn't mean I haven't taken the time to learn btw, it just means I am looking at things from different sources and prospective. "Pet" homes are just fine IMO with responsible breeding, I actually wish more of the people looking for a "pit bull" puppy had a GOOD breeder to turn to instead of the guys selling on craigslist cause they bred their 1 year old blue nose. People want different things in dogs- if they are looking for a well trained adult APBT, a trained adult "pit bull type", a mixed puppy or a purebred puppy, we have all of those in rescue. Of course, we also have the ones that are severely damaged emotionally that will take months or a year of rehab before they can be adopted out. Responsible breeding for active "pet" homes would actually help our rescue by helping the breeds' reputations and cutting down on the people that resort to craigslists and friends or friends while we still adopt out adult rescues and train the shelter pulls.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Shell said:


> I'm going to disagree on this one. Dog aggression can and does crop up around maturity even between "buddies" I think Hallie is prepared to deal proactively but saying it is doubtful that he will ever be aggressive is making a pretty big jump when the dog is well under 1 year old.


I'm most definitely willing to deal with any type of DA aggression shown towards Hallie. They're NEVER together unsupervised just in case. All dogs are crated separately when I'm gone, and they're always with me when they're out together. It would be this way even if Axel was a Maltese. Thankfully, Axel is extremely sensitive to touch and corrections. If he's rough with Hallie I just have to touch him to snap him out of his play, and he acts as though I've thrown something at him. This is a good thing, though. He has incredible self control for a puppy. Today was his first night at Rally class, it was Hallie's class but I took him for socialization. He did tremendously well. He didn't care about the other dogs at all as long as I had a treat, and when I didn't it was friendly curiosity. No pulling, lunging, or growling.  He's going to grow up at dog shows, so if any misbehavior crops up, it will be address immediately.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

Hallie said:


> Thank you, Grace! I hope he grows up to be as stunning as your Trent. I'll keep you updating, and you'll see lots of pics on Facebook.
> 
> Thank you. I've had countless negative comments, but I've had a few nice ones. 1 nice comment = 10 bad ones.
> The thing about Axel is, even for a puppy, he has no drive. He isn't entergetic. He's extremely mellow and lazy. If he's like this as a puppy... I imagine he wouldn't be a good working dog later. So far he hates to work. Most APBT puppies at his age already love to work, and have been started. Axel just wouldn't do it.
> Your boy is gorgeous! He's much blockier than Axel, but Axel is turning out to not be as stream lined as working ABPTs. \


My Dakota is blockier because he is Amstaff and the bloodlines he has.He is not a working/gaming dog,plus I have fed him salmon oil since a pup to bulk him up some 
I get a few good comments on how pretty he is but more bad then good  mostly about his ear crop,I have actually lost friends and friends my son had doesn't come over anymore,their parents want let them now.When Dakota was a puppy they came over to play but now that he is grown noone comes over much  and I am not the clueless owner,we have a seperate place to shut him up if need be when people come over but still people here "pitbull" and are afraid.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

And I also have to mention..that yes,when they mature around 1 and reach full maturity around 2 they can become DA even with dogs they are raised with,its their nature and always be prepared for such.The difference in as you may know all other breeds of dogs snap and release,snap and release the pitbull snaps and holds and shakes,with the scissor aligned teeth this is what causes the damage and you cannot break them loose without a break stick or killing the dog.Please just be mindful when he reaches maturity.I have seen a 17 inch pitbull run and hit a 100 pound GSD,grab his throat and shake 3 times and GSD drop dead.Not trying to scare you but just be mindful what you have.You may not see it now but when he turns 1... you will.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Bad news. When I took Axel in for his neuter I learned that his brother had become so aggressive DA and HA that he had to be euthanized. It worries me a little, seeing that him and his brother have the same genetics. However, the previously owner/breeder treated them very different. Axel was a house dog, and his brother was outside on a chain. I believe his intention was to fight Axel's bigger more dominant brother since this guy has a history of dog fighting. 



Bear2010 said:


> My Dakota is blockier because he is Amstaff and the bloodlines he has.He is not a working/gaming dog,plus I have fed him salmon oil since a pup to bulk him up some
> I get a few good comments on how pretty he is but more bad then good  mostly about his ear crop,I have actually lost friends and friends my son had doesn't come over anymore,their parents want let them now.When Dakota was a puppy they came over to play but now that he is grown noone comes over much  and I am not the clueless owner,we have a seperate place to shut him up if need be when people come over but still people here "pitbull" and are afraid.


People can be so ignorant. Dakota is beautiful. I'm lucky that everyone close to me loves Axel just as much as I do. I hope no one acts differently towards Axel as he grows. My boyfriend is petrified of big dogs, but since he's known Axel since he was little I hope it isn't a problem.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

Being on a chain and or in a pen does make a difference,they are very people oriented and need the interaction of family(there person) when chained and penned it aggravates them so you get a higher aggressive attitude.My Hubby use to rescue fightening pitbulls right out of the pit,when they were done or injured they would call him and he would take them..we have only had 2 that are raised as pets..Dakota is one of them.There is a BIG difference in these dogs.(we do not take rescues anymore,I had a rescue kill my pomeranian in a flash and she was use to him (and she ate him) sounds gross and harsh but just tryng to give you some info.

You have to be careful with bloodlines in making sure of good temperments..the show line which is my Dakota are less DA aggressive.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Hallie said:


> Bad news. When I took Axel in for his neuter I learned that his brother had become so aggressive DA and HA that he had to be euthanized. It worries me a little, seeing that him and his brother have the same genetics. However, the previously owner/breeder treated them very different. Axel was a house dog, and his brother was outside on a chain. I believe his intention was to fight Axel's bigger more dominant brother since this guy has a history of dog fighting.


The HA is highly unusual, I suppose it could have been how he was raised, it could have been genetics or it could have been just that dog being wired wrong. As far as I know, HA isn't something that comes up at maturity like DA can, so I wouldn't be stressing that HA might be an issue for Axel. We've had dogs that have been fought (not just "fighting lines") that are completely fine with people and supervised interaction with dogs, a few that cannot have any interaction with dogs but are still totally cool with people. HA is pretty much the opposite of what dog fighters want after all. 

Axel being smaller and probably staying "cute" will help some with the comments. Unfortunately for Bear2010, I'll bet a lot of the negative comments do come from the ear crop, because of the connotations from it and it does take away some of the expressiveness of these natural goofballs.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

The aggression, both human and dog, was a result of how the Guy was keeping the dog, and I don't think being held in the back of the Shelter with the DA and HA dogs helped. He had minimal human interaction back there. I've seen unsocialized pups develop trypes of agression when kept with aggressive adult dogs. Axel will never be human aggressive, that is clear even at this age. I personally don't think he'll 'turn' DA because he's already learning to ignore dogs in training, and is extremely submissive. However, I understand there is a possibility that DA will develop later, and I'm completely prepared to deal with it. 



Shell said:


> The HA is highly unusual, I suppose it could have been how he was raised, it could have been genetics or it could have been just that dog being wired wrong. As far as I know, HA isn't something that comes up at maturity like DA can, so I wouldn't be stressing that HA might be an issue for Axel. We've had dogs that have been fought (not just "fighting lines") that are completely fine with people and supervised interaction with dogs, a few that cannot have any interaction with dogs but are still totally cool with people. HA is pretty much the opposite of what dog fighters want after all.
> 
> Axel being smaller and probably staying "cute" will help some with the comments. Unfortunately for Bear2010, I'll bet a lot of the negative comments do come from the ear crop, because of the connotations from it and it does take away some of the expressiveness of these natural goofballs.


What made the HA even more unusual was the premature age of the dog. We see DA dogs a lot, but they never display HA since the two aren't connected. Usually HA dogs are extremely dog friendly. I knew the HA had nothing to do with the dog aggression, it just troubles me that my dog is from such unstable lines. He'll never be HA, but a dog from stable lines would obviously had been a better choice. Thankfully, despite genetics Axel is an individual and so far he's the opposite of his brother.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Hallie said:


> Axel is done with his ugly puppy stage!!!!
> 
> When I got him-
> 
> ...


Very Earodynamic...


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Hallie said:


> Thank you, Grace! I hope he grows up to be as stunning as your Trent. I'll keep you updating, and you'll see lots of pics on Facebook.


Really glad to hear it!! There is no doubt that he'll grow into a stunner, just look at him now <3

Also, sorry to hear about Axel's littermate. At least Axel wound up in a loving home with you and can go on to live a full and happy life. Hugs for you and Axel.


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## Bear2010 (Aug 21, 2012)

Hallie said:


> Thankfully, despite genetics Axel is an individual and so far he's the opposite of his brother.


Show him love,firm correction when needed letting him know you are in control and not him,don't pen nor chain him up or leave him outside fully with no human interaction( not saying you would) and train,train,train and you should have yourself a loving non HA pitbull..can't say much on DA though.


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