# How do you teach a dog...



## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

that she does indeed have back legs?! 

Harleigh has been doing great on the A-Frame in Agility, but she doesn't realize 2 things. 1) that she has back legs & 2) that while she can go fast go UP the frame, she MUST slow down or she's going to fly off.

She just recently started doing this (not slowing down and her back feet go flying off) and I've put her on leash to make her realize that she *must* shift speeds, but its making slow progress. I'm having to say her "Whoa" word before she even gets over 1/2 of the frame so she can start shifting her speed LOL

In other news, she is SO fast and leaves me in the dust - especially when doing sequences. We were doing 4 jumps, then a tunnel... the first 2 jumps had wings and were straight, but the 3rd jump was at an angle w/o wings. She would break off because she was so far ahead of me and I wasn't there to "push" her into the jump. 

One of the ladies said that I needed to get rockets on my shoes to keep up, LOL. So, assuming that there are no shoes that come with rockets on them, this means that she's going to need to know her signals _extremely_ well, we're going to practice that and hopefully we'll get to wear she'll respond when she's leaving me behind.  I was able to put her in a stay and get about 2.5 jumps ahead of her, but I have a feeling she's going to need to be able to hold that sit with me even more ahead of her.

I'm so glad we enjoy it so much - Harleigh (& myself) look forward to it every Monday! And last night, the weather was so nice that I was able to wear shorts again!!!!!!! 

I should add that we did all the hind end awareness, etc. in the beginning and she's been doing fine. I also practice with her on the ladder every day before we get to class, so she KNOWS she has to shift speeds and stop or else she'll go flying off. However, all of the sudden she just stopped and would rather blast over it. Which isn't good because we only have like 2 links until the A-Frame until is at full height. 

We also teach 2o/2o and have a target at the bottom, so she knows what she's supposed to do  Maybe I should start saying "Whoa" as soon as she climbs on it. 

I guess my main reason for posting this was to see if anyone else's dog just decided it was more fun to launch of instead of doing it like a big girl/boy?


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## Aussie27 (Sep 25, 2010)

I believe that a good way to teach hind end awareness is to have them walk over poles and walk across ladders.  I read that in my research, I don't know if it's what a lot of people actually do though.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

Is she not stopping in the 2o2o position? Your need to clarify. Also use stride regulators but they wont solve a non compliance for the 2o2o if that is the problem.
If it is the 2o2o problem, go back to target work and proofing it.


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

LynnI said:


> Is she not stopping in the 2o2o position? Your need to clarify. Also use stride regulators but they wont solve a non compliance for the 2o2o if that is the problem.
> If it is the 2o2o problem, go back to target work and proofing it.


Its hard to explain. Sometimes she just CAN'T slow herself down to stop for the 2o2o, so while she's trying to, she just can't shift her speed fast enough and her back end swings off. 

Other times she just will run right off of it and then turn around to come back to the target to get her treat (which we take away if we can get to it before her). I'm not sure if thats because she can't slow herself down or if she just doesn't want to. Her just plowing off happens less often then the other I mentioned above.

Sorry, I hope that makes it easier to understand. Thanks, I'll have to look into those! I'll have to ask my instructor if they have any there.


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## LynnI (Mar 27, 2010)

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> Its hard to explain. Sometimes she just CAN'T slow herself down to stop for the 2o2o, so while she's trying to, she just can't shift her speed fast enough and her back end swings off.
> 
> Other times she just will run right off of it and then turn around to come back to the target to get her treat (which we take away if we can get to it before her). I'm not sure if thats because she can't slow herself down or if she just doesn't want to. Her just plowing off happens less often then the other I mentioned above.
> 
> Sorry, I hope that makes it easier to understand. Thanks, I'll have to look into those! I'll have to ask my instructor if they have any there.


Sounds like she doesn't fully understand the criteria and if she is swing her hind off, I would bet my last dollar that you have been facing her and giving her the reward with your opposite hand. Lower the frame or work on a contact board, go back to the basics, make sure you are always facing forward and rewarding with the hand closest to the dog. If it is now a habit, you may have to put up barrier on the other side. Don't go back to the frame, until you have a complete independant contact performance, which means, distance, run bys while she remains in the position until released and sending her to it.

http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p62/adojrts/?action=view&current=MVI_0825.mp4 

Here is a young dog, lots of work on contact trainer before she was put on a lowered frame. This is her second lesson on a frame, as you can see she absolutely knows the 2o2o criteria and waits to be released.


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I don't think if this would be useful or not but I like to teach my dogs rear end awareness so that they know how to turn their butts and such.

You can try but like I said, I have no agility experience, so I do't know how helpful it would be.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> Its hard to explain. Sometimes she just CAN'T slow herself down to stop for the 2o2o, so while she's trying to, she just can't shift her speed fast enough and her back end swings off.
> 
> Other times she just will run right off of it and then turn around to come back to the target to get her treat (which we take away if we can get to it before her). I'm not sure if thats because she can't slow herself down or if she just doesn't want to. Her just plowing off happens less often then the other I mentioned above.
> 
> Sorry, I hope that makes it easier to understand. Thanks, I'll have to look into those! I'll have to ask my instructor if they have any there.


IF you're giving her a treat after she flies off THEN hits her 2o2o, she's probably thinking that's the way to do the A-frame...jump off, turn around, get on the contact, kwim? I actually did a bit of back chaining with Tag with the contact obstacles...2o2o, then led him (on leash) up the frame a step or two, turn, walk down into 2o2o, etc. It might be worth a shot. 
Another thing I did (with contacts) was teach Tag that 2o2o meant two feet on the ground, 2 feet on the obstacle no matter WHERE you're at. If he is standing in front of the contact obstacle, he backs into 2o2o. If he's standing beside it, he side-steps until he's 2o2o. I don't know if this is the "right" way to do it, but it seemed to help him realize that 2o2o was a position, not a "chain", kwim?


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## dantero (Feb 2, 2011)

Sounds like she's getting rewarded sometimes even when she does it wrong (she gets the treat before you can pick it up) so why do it right? Especially when the behavior (yahoo) is self rewarding.

Is she clicker trained? If so, she should understand the concept of a mark for the right behavior, then the reward. Even if the reward is delayed. I'd quit putting treats on her "place" and simply click then reward when she does the 2o2o correctly. This will prevent her from self rewarding for doing it wrong. I would also teach her an "easy" command. I used this with my Malinois when we were doing agility, since they wanted to do it at only one speed, "warp". When they hear "easy" they know to slow it down, that something is coming up they will need to pay attention to. Whether it's a contact, a sharp turn to the next jump, etc.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

***NOT an agility trainer or participant*** just so ya know..

One, it is pretty awesome that she is finding the running of the course so rewarding that she rockets..that's half the battle is making an activity self rewarding....

Two: I agree that you need to go back to basics, take a REALLY good look at how/when and in what position you are rewarding a behaviour/chain and work on impulse control (like the whoa mentioned by Dantero). This is not just a training issue but a safety issue...control on a course will increase the physical athletic longevity of your pup and greatly reduce the potential for injury...this is most likely a training issue of yours, as a handler, than it is the dog...KWIM?


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 18, 2009)

Sorry - I forgot I posted this and haven't been on the board for a little bit. Thanks for all the suggestions!  

For 2 Agility classes Harleigh was mainly on leash doing the A-Frame - I would "leash check" her (thats what I call it, lol) and make her realize that she MUST slow down. AND I realized I have to get her "whoa" command out way sooner, so she starts slowing down soon enough that she's able to stop.

I'm happy to report that 99% of the time she now is able to stop on a dime  Last class we did a sequence of tunnel-jump-aframe-table-teeter-tire-jump and she did amazing. She stopped right away - I was so proud because she had some speed going  Just thought I would update. 

In other news (just in case you are interested)....

Harleigh is now doing the full sized Teeter with now hesitation at all. We've been working our way up and we have finally been rewarded! That had been the one thing that she just was so unconfident on, so we took it slow, built that confidence up and she is doing that Teeter like a champ now.

We also did a 12 set of weave poles (with guides) and the instructors were just amazed how fast ALL of the dogs picked it up (we've been doing channel weaves for quite a bit). They went on about it for the rest of the night, lol. Now that its staying light outside, I hope I'll be able to share some pictures/videos of her... just to show you how far she leaves me in the dust.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> Sorry - I forgot I posted this and haven't been on the board for a little bit. Thanks for all the suggestions!
> 
> For 2 Agility classes Harleigh was mainly on leash doing the A-Frame - I would "leash check" her (thats what I call it, lol) and make her realize that she MUST slow down. AND I realized I have to get her "whoa" command out way sooner, so she starts slowing down soon enough that she's able to stop.
> 
> ...


Yay!!! I want videos! 
Tag is a 15 pound dog who leaves me in the dust. If I were any slower, he'd be able to lap me xD I can't imagine running a large dog who smokes the course!
When Tag was learning the teeter, it was known as the Hot Dog Stand. He loves hot dogs, and I started using hot dogs ONLY on the teeter. It was convincing enough...
I can't wait til we move agility outside again. We usually do that in late April/early May. It's always a riot the first week or two because the dogs are so full of it.


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