# What is he?



## lizalots (Aug 29, 2008)

Check out this gorgeous guy. I am wondering what people think he is? They are calling him AST, but they are notoriously bad for guessing.

In any case, I think he is one of the most handsome dogs I've ever seen.


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Hard to tell exactly due to the photo's perspective, making the head look gigantic. There's no doubt it's a bully breed. And with more pictures of the body it would be helpful to pin it down. I'm thinking that AST is the most reasonable choice here...that's what I would have guessed from the one picture posted. It could also be a bulldog mix, but more body pictures would really help.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

looks like an AST to me.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Size would be a helpful determining factor....because if he's like ninety pounds plus..he is not AST and more likely some mix of mastiff and bully..

if he is in the sixty pound area he is probably mostly AST.


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

He is gorgeous but like said above idea of size would help a great deal.


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

I think the shelter or rescue has done a pretty good job of guessing. I think they are right. He looks absolutely identical to my girlfriend's Pit.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

lulusmom said:


> I think the shelter or rescue has done a pretty good job of guessing. I think they are right. He looks absolutely identical to my girlfriend's Pit.


Pit as in APBT, AST or SBT? There are differences and APBT is the only breed that is actually a Pit Bull...and he doesn't look APBT to me...

Because he looks AST to me but if he is really large he is likely a mastiff mix...


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Pit as in APBT, AST or SBT? There are differences and APBT is the only breed that is actually a Pit Bull...and he doesn't look APBT to me...
> 
> Because he looks AST to me but if he is really large he is likely a mastiff mix...


Actually the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier are one in the same. The breed came to the US in the 1800s and was originally called the Bull and Terrier. The name was changed to the American Pit Bull Terrier in 1898 by the UKC. The name was changed again in 1972 to the American Staffordshire Terrier to distinguish the breed from the Staffordshire "Bull" Terrier of England, the ancestor of the American dogs, which was recognized by AKC in 1974. The SBT (British) dog is 14-16 inches tall and weighs up to 45 pounds. The American cousin is 18-19 inches tall and weighs up to 80 pounds; however, the UKC's standards for the American Pit Bull Terrier is from 30-60 pounds. 

Many dogs look like Pit Bulls and the shelters are full of bull mixes that are mistakenly thought to be Pit Bulls. Unfortunately, there are many that go unadopted because of the fear of the breed.  Here is an interesting quiz to see if you can find the Pit Bull.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

lulusmom said:


> Actually the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier are one in the same. The breed came to the US in the 1800s and was originally called the Bull and Terrier. The name was changed to the American Pit Bull Terrier in 1898 by the UKC. The name was changed again in 1972 to the American Staffordshire Terrier to distinguish the breed from the Staffordshire "Bull" Terrier of England, the ancestor of the American dogs, which was recognized by AKC in 1974. The SBT (British) dog is 14-16 inches tall and weighs up to 45 pounds. The American cousin is 18-19 inches tall and weighs up to 80 pounds; however, the UKC's standards for the American Pit Bull Terrier is from 30-60 pounds.


No, they aren't. You're right that the AmStaff was originally a branch off from the APBT - BUT they are no longer the 'same' breed. AmStaffs are geared more toward Conformation while the APBT maintains a more working style roots. Because of that, the breed structure and overall build varies pretty widely between and AmStaff and APBT.

Some people do duel register their dogs (with both the UKC and AKC) but they aren't really considered the same breed anymore. At least, not by most bully people.


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## lulusmom (Nov 12, 2008)

I'm not a breeder, just a rescuer and reader that loves dogs. I sure haven't been able to find anything that differentiates the two. I did see one sight that says that stating the differences is difficult and that even breeders can't agree. I also found a site that said that even though AKC still calls the Pit an AST, the Pit has evolved into breed that is distinct from the AST or maybe that was vice versa. I'm sure glad the UKC and AKC agree on what my dogs is. 

Quote from dogbreedinfo.com


> The main difference is the bloodline. Amstaffs are show dogs and dog fighters won't use dogs with Amstaff blood. As time progresses there will be more of a difference. Many are duel registered as Amstaffs with the AKC and Pits with the UKC.


http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm

Here are a few other sites that have the same information:

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amerpit.html
http://www.realpitbull.com/history.html


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

lulusmom said:


> Actually the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier are one in the same. The breed came to the US in the 1800s and was originally called the Bull and Terrier. The name was changed to the American Pit Bull Terrier in 1898 by the UKC. The name was changed again in 1972 to the American Staffordshire Terrier to distinguish the breed from the Staffordshire "Bull" Terrier of England, the ancestor of the American dogs, which was recognized by AKC in 1974. The SBT (British) dog is 14-16 inches tall and weighs up to 45 pounds. The American cousin is 18-19 inches tall and weighs up to 80 pounds; however, the UKC's standards for the American Pit Bull Terrier is from 30-60 pounds.
> 
> Many dogs look like Pit Bulls and the shelters are full of bull mixes that are mistakenly thought to be Pit Bulls. Unfortunately, there are many that go unadopted because of the fear of the breed.  Here is an interesting quiz to see if you can find the Pit Bull.
> 
> http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


I've taken that test and passed with flying colors on that one and a few others....I also own One game bred brindle bitch who was my boyfriend's dog and is now mine plus one possibly APBTxAmBulldog bitch. Dakota is absolutely correct.

Oh and.....


"After 1936, AST’s were no longer bred for the defined working type but for what is TYPICALLY a more “flashier” look with blockier heads, larger chests and a thicker jaw.

Currently, the AST, due to a closed gene pool and a great deal of popular stud syndrome, has developed into a very narrow phenotype, while APBT’s still vary phenotypically from lanky to stocky, from terrier to bully. Although the phenotypic expression varied in the APBT, relative weight, size and proportion remained constant and dogs over 60lbs are rarely seen in the yards of ethical breeders"


Taken from http://www.apbt.info/tiki-index.php?page=History+of+the+APBT



To put some perspective on the issue check this link out...

http://www.workingpitbull.com/amstaffpit3.html

The intent of the breeder matters...because it dictates the resulting dogs. If you really compare the standards of the APBT and the AST you will see what I mean. Because of its very exacting standards of angulation and such which directly affects capability....APBT are a very medium in just about everyway breed. AST give more of an impression of a larger dog..



The first is an AST. The second is an APBT. The differences in build are fairly prominent.


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

I think depending on his weight and height he may have American Bull dog in him. In the south it is common to crop their ears, I know the color isn't there so I am thinking a mix.


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

Ab maybe..I would really like to see a side view and a clearer view of his chest..he doesn't have flews or dewlap like most of the mastiff breed as well as a lot of ABs...I've noticed ABs have very round skulls in comparison to the bull and terrier breeds it seems...as well as a more almost blunt muzzle at least the Johnson dogs do...Scott types look more like a pit to me.....APBT heads are sort of wedge shaped with a sort of squarer muzzle. Size would be a helpful indicator...


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## Jen D (Apr 23, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> Ab maybe..I would really like to see a side view and a clearer view of his chest..he doesn't have flews or dewlap like most of the mastiff breed as well as a lot of ABs...I've noticed ABs have very round skulls in comparison to the bull and terrier breeds it seems...as well as a more almost blunt muzzle at least the Johnson dogs do...Scott types look more like a pit to me.....APBT heads are sort of wedge shaped with a sort of squarer muzzle. Size would be a helpful indicator...


The front view of the muzzle is what has me thinking Ab so your right a side view would be great.


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## lizalots (Aug 29, 2008)

I am sorry that I don't have another picture. Maybe today I can go down there and snap one.

This is their caption about him:
08100300a- Gaston - 3 year old, neutered male, American Staffordshire terrier 
Description: Gaston is one of the most strikingly handsome dogs any of us have ever seen. He came to us from a high kill shelter in June 2008 where he was at high risk of being euthanized. He was adopted out, and came to us as a stray, but his family never came to get him. Gaston is super friendly with people. I picked him up into my lap and he instantly turned into Jell-O. Gaston loves being held and cuddled. Gaston knows his basic commands including, “sit”, “down”, “stay” and “no”. He is at a great age where he has enough energy to play and enjoy the outdoors, but he also knows when it’s time to relax and be quiet. Gaston met a male dog and a female dog here at the shelter, he was dominant with both, but with the right dog he just wanted to play and started bowing down like a puppy. I think Gaston would be fine in a home with other dogs, but it’s important that they will be able to handle his dominance. Sometimes he can be overwhelming for other dogs, but has proven that he can make friends, including another pit bull and a huge malamute mix. Gaston met our office cats and was pretty interested in chasing them. I really don’t think that he would hurt a cat, he just really wanted to play with them, but because of his interest, he should live without cats. Since Gaston is so sweet and gentle and has a classic pit bull and Amstaff temperament, a home with kids would be fine. Kids over age five would be best, because sometimes he likes to play and throws his body around. Gaston may be big and a bit intimidating to look at, but if you give this big boy a chance, you’ll see what a teddy bear he really is. Adoption- $150


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

oops...just noticed I made a typo...

the dog on the chain in the first pic is APBT...the second dog is AST.

and its ok about the pic liz..bully breeds are very different breeds..but the differences are not immediately apparent to most people...

the best way to tell is a standing side view...so that the dogs full build is visible.


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