# My puppy just peed deliberatly!



## MasonLover (Nov 29, 2006)

Ok, so I am a new owner of a large breed dog. He is an australian shepherd, named Mason. All I have heard about these dogs is that they are great, and so smart. Well, if that's the case I think I just about got the stupidest most stubborn dog.

He does good with the potty training sometimes, and sometimes no. Which is understandable. BTW - How long does it take to potty train a dog? 

Two, he looked at my husband twice today and peed right in front of him. Three - I put him on our bed for a second, and he knows not to pee on there because for the first time in a while I let him sleep on there the previous night and he waited til I took him out in the morning, and he peed on the bed staring right at me. I'm like what is he doing?

Also, we try to train him, and he knows to sit and lay down. But he is so stubborn that he won't do it sometimes. I feel as though I'm cursed with the dumb dogs. My other dog at home with my parents is like 6 or 7 years old and he still pees in the house. 

I need help, I refuse to live like my mother!


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Well, I would start with a change of attitude first off. There's an old saying that goes...if you think it is so, it is so. And this may be partly your problem. You're so irritated with your dog that his senses tell him to be nervous around you...and thus, he does things that can't be explained in human terms. So cheer up! Accept this as a challenge you will overcome, and not as some derived curse. And to answer your question, it can take up to a year, with sound training methods, to house train some dogs, and have it be perfectly normal. However, most dogs don't take that long when positive attitudes are around. So, tell us some of the basics...what's his schedule like? How old is he? Where did you get him and how long have you had him? Do you practice NILIF? How are you house training him? And what do you do for him physically, socially, and mentally? Have you considered a training class? And I'm not sure if you want to hear it, but welcome to our forum!


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## MasonLover (Nov 29, 2006)

Well, I walk him every morning between 6:30 am - 7:30 am, this is generally when he starts crying. Then I feed him, and then I take him out again to go potty. From then on I just keep a close eye on him, then I feed him in the afternoon again.

He is 3 mo. old, and we bought him from a private breeder. But the only thing is, which I didn't notice til after. Is that the dogs all peed and pooped in the area they lived in, but in a certain corner of the area they lived in.

I do not know what NILIF is, I am house training him unless it is impossible. In which I hope to god that when I move we have a backyard, so he can be happier.

We try to go to the park at least once a week to play with him, other than that we play with him inside. But he likes to play with himself sometimes with this rabbit toy. But it's like he always wants our attention, he will even stand in front of my computer just to get my attention. I've considered a training class, but it would have to wait until next year to begin because of my moving situation (military family).


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

1. At 3 months of age he needs to go out approximately every two hours, and definitely upon awakening, after eating or drinking, and after play of training.
2. Buy a crate and start crate training. For a puppy, if you want to buy a crate for his adult size, you will need to either buy a crate divider (available for wire crates) or block off the back part of the crate so that he only has enough room to stand, lie down and turn around. Once you crate train a dog, you will never want to be without a crate.

3. Everything, that means food, water, play, training, stc. should be on a strict schedule. That doesn't mean giving less, just scheduling it so that you have a better idea as to when he'll need to be taken out. At 3 months of age, schedule at least one outting during the night. It's just like having a baby.
4. Take him out to his designated area, even if right now that means walking him to a vacant field or curbing him (if you live in the city). Then walk him back and forth in the area until he does his business. While walking him and during the time he's doing his business, repeat a word of phrase (for example, get busy) over and over again until he finishes. Eventually, if you are consistent, he'll associate your word or phrase with the action and learn to go on command. When he finishes, have a praise party. Then have a short play session or fun walk before returning one more time to the potty area to see if he needs to finish his business.

5. When you cannot watch him 110% of the time, he should be confined in his crate or tethered to you. He should never be out of your sight.

6. If you catch him in the act, correct him with a firm, low no and immediately scoop him up and take him out to his area to finish. Then praise. Clean up any accident areas thoroughly with an enzyme cleaner such as Nature's Miracle to destroy any odor at a molecular level.

As far as the peeing in front of you and your husband. That was most likely submissive urination. DO NOT scold or react in any way to that or you will make the problem worse. In dog terms, he was just being polite and showing respect to a pack superior.

NILIF stands for nothing in life is free. For a puppy you can use a simple version. (1) No sleeping with you. He sleeps in his crate beside your bed. Beds and furniture belong to the Alpha pair. Later, when he's housetrained, you can allow him on the bed/furniture if you so choose, but only with your specific permission. Also, have him obey a simple command such as sit before he gets anything (play, food, water, petting, etc) even if, at this young age, you have to help him obey. This teaches him his place in the pack and gives him confidence in himself and in your leadership.

Be consistent and patient. He's a baby and it will take time to train him to be the dog you want. But, if you're consistent (there's that word again) in what you want and what you do, it will happen.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

I would highly recomend that you consult a profesional trainer and learn how to correct your problems before they get anymore out of control. Your pup is just that a pup and has yet to learn right from wrong. You need to learn how to train him properly so you're both happy and don''t end up like your moms house.


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## MasonLover (Nov 29, 2006)

I have a crate for him, and he stays in there unless I am watching him profusely. It was as if he peed in front of us because he was angry or something. He knows when we got outside and I say "go potty" he goes potty. How long should I do this until I can be more lenient on him? I let him sleep in my bed last night because he was doing so good. But I guess it's back to the crate. He also gets like jealous of my husband, it's like whenever we kiss he has to like hop on his head to get my attention. 

He loves my husband too, but I spend more time with him. 

It's like sometimes he's a great dog, and other times it's like OMG I can't believe he just did that.


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## MasonLover (Nov 29, 2006)

He's also a really big baby, we like to call him the gay dog.

He always cries whenever we put him in the crate. Also, is there anyway to prevent him from barking when we leave? I've tried putting music on, but that didn't seem to work last night.


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## BriMac35 (Nov 17, 2006)

About his barking when you leave . Make sure you give him something to chew on in his crate to keep him busy . To break my dog from barking and tearing up his bedding in his crate when we left , I put a treat inside a Kong toy so he had to work at it to get to it , after a while I quit putting treats in it . Now he goes nowhere without his Kong . As for his whining , ignore it . If you keep talking to him and going to his crate then he's getting what he wants , attention .


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

Here's a description of NILIF to add to the understanding skelaki provided; Nothing in Life is Free. And as far as training is concerned, I think you both will benefit more if you look for a class or individual training now. Your dog is at an impressionable age, and you don't want to make training more of challenge by waiting. Find a class you can pay for on a week to week basis, or find a trainer who would be wiling to offer short term training if need be. But please don't overlook the importance of training for your sanity, and for your dog's pride.


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## blackgavotte (Sep 28, 2006)

He's only 3 months old, just a baby. He needs company and remember he is not only a baby animal who needs to understand what being a dog is, he also needs now to learn how to manoeuver in our human world, with our strange rules and expectations that may have little to do with his own instincts. 

You do not need to use a crate all the time. You may find that keeping him in an enclosed area is less stressful for him. Look into exercise pens, see if that may work better. He can certainly be in his crate at night if he can hold it, but does he really have to be in the crate a lot during the day? This can be adding stress and confusion to him. 

I wouldn't be putting him on the bed at all, that actually may have frightened him, a strange texture and up higher than he is used to. Try to put yourself in his place a bit, use patience and compassion. He's not gay. Dogs normally interact with the person who seems to be more of the leader. He probably recognizes your husband as such right now. Doesn't mean he doesn't love you, but in a pack they have to know what the rules are and who rules. 

Remember he also needs to play, explore, hold things in his mouth, these are the ways puppies have to learn. Get him into a puppy class, it will be good for him and you.


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## Devo225 (Nov 29, 2006)

All this is good advice posted above, but I saw this and thought I'd add my own experience being a brand new Aussie owner myself.

My Aussie, Chadee, is a female going on about 11 weeks old right now. I can definitely understand your frustration, though my situation seems to be getting better much faster than it was.

I just joined the forums, and this is the only post I've seen so far, so I don't know how everyone here feels about clicker training, but Chadee has definitely responded positively to it. I've been able to phase out the clicker on a few commands (sit, shake, and fetching/bring/drop) which she performs consistently now. 

I use the clicker when she goes "potty" (also the command I use) in the appropriate place. If she has an accident, if I catch er "midstream" I will vocally reprimand her (I use a sound that's rather difficult to describe - just a louder version of a sort of buzzer noise, which she seems to hate) and get her outside immediately to finish. If I find this accident later, I do nothing to correct her actions as dogs are oriented to the present, and wouldn't understand what their punishment is for - just that you are liable to go insane and punish for no reason.

For the past three days or so, she has always gone to the back door prior to actually making a mess. All times but one I successfully took her out and she went where she was supposed to. The exception was actually my fault because I stalled letting her out to finish a part of my Zelda game.  I won't do that again.

Another thing you might look into is activity levels. Aussies are highly active and energetic, and making sure they don't get frustrated or bored can be quite the chore. This could be why Mason is constantly trying to get your attention all the time.

You should also try to take him out more often not just to "go" but to play at different times. I try to go play out the front door and go potty out the back door so Chadee associates them differently. If you take Mason out immediately after he pees in front of you, he may associate peeing with getting to go outside, rather than going outside to pee.

My biggest problem it seems is biting. I know puppies play bite all the time, but I'm concerned she may not grow out of it, and I'm not sure how or when to go about punishing for biting. She never bites out of anger or to hurt intentionally. At least so it seems.

Chadee's my first dog, though I grew up with four. She's turned out to be a handful, but I wouldn't trade her for anything. My fiancee is a little jealous, though. 

Edit: Just thought I'd add my thoughts on housebreaking - I've heard it can take up to 6 months, maybe a year for a puppy to gain full control of his/her "eliminations." That doesn't mean it will take that long for them to understand they shouldn't go in the house, but you'll have to learn how to tell that your dog absolutely can't hold it any longer. Chadee somehow manages to make it through most nights without needing to be taken out. On the nights she has to go, she wakes me up with her whimpering.

Also a note on the crate, try not to use it as a punishment. Chadee is reasonably quiet when I crate her, unless she's wound up and excited. For the most part she associates it with sleep (I tried to put her in when she would take naps) and will usually settle down and lie down after a while. If she is loud, I ignore her best I can. You should use it as a potty training tool, though. If you take Mason out and he doesn't potty, put him in the crate for a while and take him out again a little later. If he goes then, give him a little free time in the house until the next time you think he needs to go out.

Sorry that was so long-winded. Good luck!


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## MasonLover (Nov 29, 2006)

I've put him on the bed before, and he's always been fine. He usually know and just lays there, or moves around. I usually put him on the bed to wake my husband up in the morning, because he can't get mad at the dog. Other than that, he doesn't really recognize my husband as the leader. He's not home as often, so he doesn't get to spend as much time. But thank you very much for the advice.

I would try and get a play pen, but he would probable just jump/climb over it. He's a big puppy, and he's already done that with the baby gate we bought for him. He's around 23/24lbs.


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## blackrose (Oct 7, 2006)

If he is having trouble with recongnizing your husband as leader, make sure that when your husband does spend time with the dog, he is training him. Make the training fun and the dog will be having a blast, learning, getting his energy out, and learning to respect your husband all in one!


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Try to keep in mind that dogs do not do things out of spite. He's not pottying in the house deliberately. He's doing it because he doesn't know any better. He's just a baby. Also, you want him to learn that is IS okay to potty in front of you... just not in the house.

My corgi came to me at 3 months of age, and although he had been started on his potty training, he still was just a baby and had several accidents, some of which included him doing it while looking at me. That didn't mean he was doing it to make me mad, he was just watching me. Most puppies do that.


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

Ex-pens used in conjunction with a crate are great for those times that you must leave him for a longer period of time and don't have anyone to come in and take him out for play and bathroom breaks.


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## MasonLover (Nov 29, 2006)

What is an ex-pen?


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## poofywoof (Nov 17, 2006)

*RE: ex-pen*

Ex Pen is short for "exercise pen" . It is a folding, portable wire pen that you can arrange in a square, rectangle, circular or octagon shape, for your dog or puppy. The pens are made of wire panels that hinge together, but they do not have a bottom, you would be using your floor or the grass or whatever as the bottom of the pen. You can find them at PetCo, Petsmart, etc and they come in different sizes. They are very nice to have, I have gotten a lot of use out of mine. They can fold up to the size of one panel's length x width when not in use.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

MasonLover said:


> Well, I walk him every morning between 6:30 am - 7:30 am, this is generally when he starts crying. Then I feed him, and then I take him out again to go potty. From then on I just keep a close eye on him, then I feed him in the afternoon again.
> 
> He is 3 mo. old, and we bought him from a private breeder. But the only thing is, which I didn't notice til after. Is that the dogs all peed and pooped in the area they lived in, but in a certain corner of the area they lived in.
> 
> ...


Have you had him check for an urinary tract infection?

He's only three months old. What are you doing to make going outside worth his while? When he goes outside, treat heavily! 

You say he was at a breeder and the breeder allowed him to goes iwhere he sleeps, that will make it harder. I would crate train. You need to make the crate the best place for him, a retreat. 

If he's trying to get your attention, you need to give it to him. He may well be telling you he needs to go and you aren't getting the massage. Remember his bladder is not capable of 'holding it' until it's convenient for you. Get up immeadiatly (kep treats in your pocket) and get him out and throw a 'party' with LOTS of treats and enthusastic praise. 

Be patient, you wouldn't expect a one year old child to catch on to potty training so quickly.


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## MasonLover (Nov 29, 2006)

Thank you everyone for the advice. He's not the smallest dog, so a ex-pen I do not think would be the smartest idea, he would jump over it. But so far he's been doing good. I think he peed that day because he was drinking an excess of water from the bathroom tub, I don't know how he snuck in there but he must have. He's obssessed with drinking water.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

They make ex-pens that are 3-4 feet high, and there are companies who make cover screens for them for those dogs who like to jump. >^^;<


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

Check out PetEdge for ex-pens and other supplies. They have a wide assortment of sizes and styles, and their prices are very reasonable.


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## pupskersandhutch (Nov 20, 2006)

One thing do you have children? If you don't do you think a 3 month old baby would know not to pee on the bed? If we didn't have diapers for babies they would **** and piss on the floor too! I have a pup that is 3 months old too and I'm a first time owner (of my own pup in my own house) I had soo many dogs growing up enough about me . THERE IS HOPE it's called PERSISTENCE!!!
just keep with the rules and the daily routine. Also don't play with him where he's pooping . I have a way that will totally change traning it works for my pup!! You have a leash right? well what you do is when you take the dog out to go potty take it on the leash and hold the leash and watch the dog go to the bathroom when he/she does praise he/she then take he/she off the leash if they don't leave them on the leash until the have to go out side for another potty shesh if they do pee/poop then reward them by taking them off the leash they WILL be trained in a week promise!!! my husbands family has done for years and the same with my family. Try it out let tell me if it worked for you or not!!! 

Love Ya (it's okay parenting a brandnew pup is quite frustrating!! )


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## juls (Aug 7, 2006)

Devo225 said:


> I just joined the forums, and this is the only post I've seen so far, so I don't know how everyone here feels about clicker training, but Chadee has definitely responded positively to it. I've been able to phase out the clicker on a few commands (sit, shake, and fetching/bring/drop) which she performs consistently now.
> 
> I use the clicker when she goes "potty" (also the command I use) in the appropriate place. If she has an accident, if I catch er "midstream" I will vocally reprimand her (I use a sound that's rather difficult to describe - just a louder version of a sort of buzzer noise, which she seems to hate) and get her outside immediately to finish. If I find this accident later, I do nothing to correct her actions as dogs are oriented to the present, and wouldn't understand what their punishment is for - just that you are liable to go insane and punish for no reason.
> 
> ...


I also do clicker training and my 6 month old puppy Ellie hasn't had an accident since she was 4 months (and when she did, it was my fault)

About the biting- Ellie's trainer said when she does bite, make a high pitched squeal because it sounds like a yelp (a sound she will recognize) and lets the dog know she hurt you. Make sure right after to pet her so you show you're not mad. This method has really helped with Ellie so I hope it helps you!


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## Dulce (Oct 2, 2006)

Here's what I would suggest you do:

-Consult a Trainer/Behaviorist
-Get an "ex" pen that's tall and/or has a cover
-Have patience, lots and lots of patience
-Be consistant
-When you see the dog begin to urinate in the house, clap your hands loudly, and immediately take the dog OUTSIDE and say "Potty!"
-Put a pee pad in the house. When the dog uses it (if) take it outside where you want the dog go to potty, and he will eventually get the idea, and go where he smells his urine already.


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## ChrissieG (Nov 27, 2006)

I am a first time dog owner and I understand your frustration BUT... you must be patient!! Some breeds can take weeks to train. Remember, although your dog is a large breed they have a tiny bladder and they have no control. How old is you pootch? They start to really learn at about 4-6 months to pee outside. Make sure not to scold your puppy when he pees/poops inside. I understand that it is difficult but if you do not catch them in the act it just confuses them. They forget what they have done the second after they have done it. If they pee in the house and you dont catch it clean it up (and dont let them see you do it) and be more attentive next time. It is our job as their owners to realize when they have to go. If you catch them in the act say "Potty, Potty" or "Outside, Outside" and grab the leash and take them out. DO NOT rub their nose in it or scold them. They will think that going to the potty all together is wrong. And you dont want him thinking that. It will come with time. Just be patient and kind. Make sure that when he does go potty outisde that you reward them with praise and treats!!!! Lots of parise so that he knows that he is doings somethign right. 

Good Luck!


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## bbowers83 (Dec 3, 2006)

THis may sound crazy but at our obedience class the teacher said only reprimand the dog if you catch him in the act of peeing.. She said if you do it after he does it the dog will think that you have a problem with the pee not with him peeing. . She said that we should startle, redirect, and praise


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## juls (Aug 7, 2006)

bbowers83 said:


> THis may sound crazy but at our obedience class the teacher said only reprimand the dog if you catch him in the act of peeing.. She said if you do it after he does it the dog will think that you have a problem with the pee not with him peeing. . She said that we should startle, redirect, and praise


The trainer I go to said the same thing. She said the dog doesn't even understand why you're even yelling. And if you yell during the act (except a noise to stop the dog prior to taking him out), the dog thinks "Oh, she's mad I peed in front of her. I'll make sure to do it where she can't see me" which is obviously much worse


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## ChrissieG (Nov 27, 2006)

We are a military family as well. For training try a PetSmart, if you have one near you. They are wonderful at working with military families. Also kennels or vets in the area should beable cater to your needs as well.

Good luck.


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## Dulce (Oct 2, 2006)

PetSmart is NOT the place to go! Please go to a REPUTABLE EXPERIENCED trainer in your area.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I have seen really good teachers at PetSmart and not so great. You take your chances there. 

Here are some resources for finding good, humane trainers
http://www.ccpdt.org/
http://www.apdt.com
http://www.ipdta.org/

The IPDTA site also explains how adversive training methods can do more harm in the end.


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## ChrissieG (Nov 27, 2006)

PetSmart may not be the best but if your in the military your options are very limited. But I agree with everyone, you sould do training a.s.a.p. If you are there for a year you have pleanty of time to get the basics done.

Good Luck.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I agree Crissie, I'm a military wife too. I have trained my own dogs and if you don't have the money for a trainer, or there are no good positive trainers near you get "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training" By Pamela Dennison. It is a great book and really coversalot of ground not only on basic obediance but also covers properly introducing dogs and helping dogs that are going through fear periods.


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