# 56 Days Pregnant



## Bings

Hello. We are anxiously counting down the days to our dogs first litter of puppies. I do have a very good friend who is a breeder offering me advice but I like to get other oppinions when I can. Duchess is starting to act restless and agitated. She has also lost some of her appitite. The vet says she is very healthy and doing wonderful. She will not be left home alone over the next week. Myself, my husband or our adult son will be here at all times. 

What are some signs of early labor that we should be watching for? The lose of appitite has me worried, she is eating but just nibbling all day. Is this OK? She doesn't seem to be loosing energy and is not weakened by the lose of appitite.

Can you finish this statement for me: "Son, you need to call me at work when Duchess.... (fill in the blank)."

Any advice or information you think I should know please let me know. I'm feeling a bit like the nervous grandmother here. Advice I would love. Critisim or lectures on the dangers of breeding I will simply ignore. Please, Duchess is like one of my children, we are all nervous enough. Save your lectures (trust me, I have heard them all before) for next week when I joyfully get on to tell you of the new puppies. 

Thank you,
Bings


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## britishbandit

Bings said:


> Advice I would love. Critisim or lectures on the dangers of breeding I will simply ignore.


Hmmm, "beggars can't be choosers". I suggest you contact your friend the "breeder", if you are going to dictate what you will and will not ignore here. Besides, you should have known these things well before now. If she's like a child to you, why are you risking her life and the life of her puppies by breeding her without knowing about the labour/whelping process?

Ok, I hate being told what I can and cannot type to you so I'll leave my lecture at that, obviously you know you didn't do this responsibly, or you wouldn't have mentioned for us not to lecture you about it. I don't particlarly want to advise you here, but I also don't want to see any dog suffer because I was stubborn about not wanting to help someone who's "breeding" I don't agree with. And since you havn't explained why you bred, I have to assume I won't like it.

Not eating, that's common before a bitch goes into labour. However, at 56 days, I'd contact a vet. If she is outright refusing food, the day may be coming very soon, and 56 days is far to early, and if she does have them, they won't be old enough to survive, 59 days is about the absolute minimum for the puppies to be born with a chance.

If you don't have a thermometer, get one, and monitor her temperature. If she drops below 100 farenheit, she should deliver within 24 hours, perhaps a bit longer.

Watch for "nesting" behavior, her digging/scratching at the ground. Also watch for lactating, she will express spotting of milk as she gets close. Some bitches pant a lot and get restless, pacing and such, and may seem overly affectionate (looking for reassurance).

As for the actual birth, be there, help her. Watch for puppies being stuck in the birth canal, know when to call your vet. If she hasn't delivered a pup after obvious pushing, get her into the vet, if she hasn't delivered a pup in more than a couple of hours, and it doesn't look like she's going to, and you suspect there may be another pup/more pups inside, get her to a vet. Be ready to step in also. First time mother, she may not know what to do. If she expells a pup and doesn't rip the sac open within 15-20 seconds, you'll have to do it or the pup will suffocate. If she doesn't stimulate the pup to start breathing, you'll have to do that as well. Pick up the pup, and rub it gently, but firmly. Also be sure to to clear away any fluid from around the nose/mouth. The pup/s may swallow some of the fluid, and you'll have to hold the pup along your wrist, facing down and rub to get it out. If you have one of those "booger suckers" for babies, those work well also.


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## Bings

I feel I left Britishbandit with way too many concerns. I will try to clear some of those up. 

My friend has been breeding Basset Hounds very successfully now for about 15 years. She has been wonderful answering question that I have had over the past YEAR. I say a year because that is how long we have discussed with her if we would breed our dog or not. BTW, I have known her for almost 30 years.

We have talked about watching her temperature, nesting, loss of appetite. I was simply looking for any other bits of advice that a place like this can offer me. The experience that the people here have is incredible. But your disire to critisize outweighs your desire to help sometimes. I have been reading this forum for a while now but have been unwilling to post because not many people get the help they come here seeking. 

Everyone on here who breeds started out somewhere at some time. Why have we chosen to breed? This is something we have wanted to be a part of for many years. We chose to wait until my husband was out of the military and we were settled somewhere permanantly. Then we waited an additional 3 years. All in all this is something we have talked about for probably 10 years or more. We have purchased numerous books, our dogs are all vet checked regularly, my friend has been incredible ever sence we first talked to her about the process. 

I feel we did do this responsibly. I can very easily come back and ask if Britishbandit acted responsibly the first time he/she breed. By everyones standards on this forum NO ONE, including the breeders here, acts responsible when breeding.

Almost EVERYTHING Britishbandit posted I know already. But sometimes you can get great little pieces of advice from one person that another person may not mention. For instance, the "booger sucker" (nasal asperator) is very good advice my friend didn't mention although she may have one. I'm simply the type of person who values a second, third or even forth oppinion. You can learn so much from others if they would be more willing to share than to critsize.

Now for some info on my dog. She is eating, but just nibbling all day long. She is full of energy, just not her normal eating habit. She was restless and pacing last night, but calmed down and slept well. She thinks she is human and is ALWAYS very affectionate. So we haven't noticed a change in this behavior. No "nesting" behavior yet similar to what Britishbandit mentioned.

Will we breed her again? We don't know. If we feel that this is something that was not "successful" (too hard on the female dog, not enough demand for the puppies [we already have a large interest in this litter] too much for us as a family to handle) then we will not breed again and our female dog will be to the vet. With our yearly income, money is not an issue and not why we have done this.

Thank you for any useful information you can give. 
Bings


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## Leila12345666

Geeee i cant talk here, but i believe i know a bit more about breeding then you. And i think im younger. I have friend's who have gone trough a dog's pregnancy and they been telling me all about it. 

You might want to watch for a temp drop in your dog. And if she is 56 days into her pregnancy and no complications i believe everything should go alright. And maybe expect some puppies sometime this week or next week. By the way what breed are they going to be?

But i have to agree you should of done the research before you breed.


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## britishbandit

Bings said:


> I feel we did do this responsibly. I can very easily come back and ask if Britishbandit acted responsibly the first time he/she breed.


I will get back to you on this one.  However, this will be a LONG post, one in which I do not have time for at the moment. Coming soon! Oh, and I am a SHE.  Wish that were posted somewhere...LOL.



Bings said:


> For instance, the "booger sucker" (nasal asperator) is very good advice my friend didn't mention although she may have one.


Thanks, I couldn't for the life of me think of the technical name for it...haha. I knew you'd get what I meant though.


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## nicole84

Have you ever thought of asking your vet these questions?


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## Snowshoe

I agree, Nicole. 

"Dogged" is a vet tech moderator on this board, and I'm sure they'll see your thread quickly. You may want to PM them with your questions. 

You may not necessarily like what you hear, but it's the closest you'll come to medical advice on an all breed forum. 

In my opinion, if you don't know the answers to these questions, you probably shouldn't be breeding. 

Good luck!


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## Leila12345666

You will however be hearing from other members soon and there will be drama. You should of not asked this question here because your dog is a week from giving birth and you dont know what to do? Ask your vet go right away and ask him all you need to know. Why dint you research first and maybe taken down some notes. Also how old is your dog and what breed?


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## Curbside Prophet

Leila12345666 said:


> You will however be hearing from other members soon and there will be drama. You should of not asked this question here because your dog is a week from giving birth and you dont know what to do? Ask your vet go right away and ask him all you need to know. Why dint you research first and maybe taken down some notes. Also how old is your dog and what breed?


If you've read Bings post she said that she was interested in getting more advice other than what she's learned already from study and/or from her breeder friend. My guess is she's excited about the new pups and doesn't want to miss anything, despite what she's already learned. Even confirming advice would be comforting to her.


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## Leila12345666

Well she also asked a couple of questions about labor and everything. Hope she comes back and keep's us updated and with pics  Lol


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## poofywoof

*impending labor*

Some dogs do refuse food for up to a couple of days before birth, try offering her some of the milk replacer you have undoubtedly purchased for the pups "just in case". Also, you can try to get her to take a little NUTRISTAT to keep glucose levels up. 
Watch for panting, nesting, trying to use the restroom without success, leaking fluid.


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## Bings

Once again, we have done research. This is something we have wanted to be a part of for over 10 years. Have discusssed seriously for 3 years. Have heavely researched seriously for over a year. What I was hoping to get here was those little pieces of advice that you don't always get from books or just one person. Those pieces of info that you can only get from someone who has gone through it before. Case in point... When I was pregnant I read everything I could get my hands on. Not one book, not my doctor, not my midwife, not my mother and not my best friend told me that I might "mess" myself while pushing during labor. That piece of information came from a lady I met in my doctor's office who was pregnant for the 3rd time. (Wow was I horrofied by that bit of news!!!) 

That is why I posted this morning. Hoping someone might offer some small piece of information I didn't already know. Those pieces of advice you may not get in books or may not get from one breeder but will get from another breeder. The nasal asperator information I find to be very important and will buy one this evening. 

Also, we have two Golden Retrievers. To us they are just incredible dogs. We love everything about the breed. They are such wonderful dogs. We have both the female and male dog. And no we didn't get the female with the express purpose of breeding them, but with the knowledge that some day we might. The male was a gift from me to my husband and a year later the female was a gift from him to me. They are a special pair and very close. If I can figure out how I will post a picture. They are truly a part of our family and travel with us everywhere we go. In fact recently my husband went on a trip without me because I would not leave the female with a friend and didn't feel she should make the trip in her condition.

We have always owned larger dogs. Retrievers and Labs as a married couple. In fact my parents raised and breed Irish Setters when I was a child. They stopped breeding when I was around 10 or 11 so I don't remember much about the process. My father is deceased and my mother in failing health so I chose a close friend, a trusted vet and a lot of reading material as mentors. I just wanted other points of view. A second or third oppinion. 

Leila, whose to say which of us knows more. Please don't take too much offence but you admit that you are not a breeder so it isn't your advice I'm seeking. If you paid attention to my post you will see that I too have a very good friend who has been breeding for many years. 

I am simply concerned about my dogs appitite. She is nibbling at food all day instead of her normal full meal twice a day. Also, should she be restless and agitated this early. Along with any other bits of advice or information people would like to offer. 

Britishbandit, I am honnestly and sincerely interested in how you became involved in breeding and why. What type of dogs you own? And again any helpful advice. I'm just nervous and the critism won't be of any help.

Thank you,
Bings


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## sobreeze

*breeder or not*

i used to breed assies for show and work i do not breed any more i rescue now if your female is not eating a lot of time there is just not enough room in there for pups and a full tummy if she is eating small meals or just picking that may be the cause i raise sheep and ewes that get close to lambing go off feed sometimes alot of times its ewes with twins or more as long as you make sure she is eating high energy feed she may not want as much remember she has a belly full not much more will fit small meals


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## Bings

Thank you Curbside Prophet. I think you explained things way better than I did. I'm nervous about my dog now that she is this close to her due date and just want to know if we are missing anything. Those little pieces of advice that you can't get from everyone or in books. 

I do apologize to everyone because my first post was done in just a few minutes and was not very well writen. I should have taken the time to explain things better and give better information.

This pregnancy was not done on a whim, nor was it an "accident". It was well thought our and researched for many years and I have some wonderful non-cyber friends who have helped us the whole way. 

But people on here are that "other oppinion". That little extra advice. The nasal asperator and Nutristat advice.

We have some panting, no nesting and no leaking of fluids that we have noticed. I'm worried about her loosing strength or energy because she isn't eating like she was just a few days ago. She was also to the vet last week. My vet has an "open door" policy and insists on seeing her as often as we can get her there. He says she is doing wonderful, very healthy.

Thank you again,
Bings


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## britishbandit

Ok, here goes! I told you this would be a LONG post! First off, I never claimed to be a breeder.  But......there has been a litter of puppies in this house. Confusing right? So I'll explain. Let me make this clear though right from the start, the breeding was not planned, it did not happen in my home, I did not consent to it, and did not know it had even occured. But, no matter how you look at it, ultimately it was my own fault.

So, how did it happen? Tysa was supposed to be spayed in May of last year, but......I had to cancel it. I had health issues myself, and I went in for a "short notice" surgery in early May. I fully planned on having Tysa spayed as soon as I got back to work, even though she wasn't due her next heat until July/August. When the doc went in for the surgery, it turned out there was a lot more wrong than originally expected, and I ended up being off work sick for 9 months (even now I am only back on 4 hour shifts). I had problems with claiming my Employment Insurance, which I never recieved until after Tysa's heat. Point being, surviving was hard enough as it was, so the cost of a spay was just out of the question. I did end up getting back-payed, but didn't rush on Tysa's spay since her heat was over, and she wasn't due again till the new year. Anyway, that is why Tysa wasn't spayed before, and PJ wasn't neutered because I was undecided on whether or not I wanted to show him, and even if I didn't, I am more comfortable altering my pets closer to the age of 2, and since Tysa was going to be spayed, there was no rush in making my decision on PJ.

So, here I am, Tysa is in heat, VERY tough listening to PJ whine constantly, and having to have the dogs seperated 24/7. I had recently bought ceramic tiles to replace the linolium floor in my kitchen/hallway, my dad had booked 2 days off to put them down for me (months prior), which happened to coinside with when Tysa's came into heat. I tried to get him to put it off for a few weeks, but he was sure he wouldn't be able to since it had taken him this long to get these 2 days off. He could work around the dogs for the most part, by having them crated in the living room, but needed to find something else until there was room to put the crates up. Anyway, I won't get into the tile job, but a good friend of mine (whom I've know since highschool) offered to take the dogs to his house so we could get the main part of the flooring down, and clear up some space where all the tiles/cement/tools/grout/tile cutter......everything had been piled (also the only available space for the crates). My friend promised he would keep the dogs seperated, both in crates if need be, and I gave strict instructions not to even allow them in the house together, unless both were crated, and not outside together either. It was either one in, one out, or both in, and crated. I cannot even express how thoroughly we went through this.

So, the dogs come home, and everything is dandy. My friend said there were no problems, and he really enjoyed those 4 hours with them.

Just over 5 weeks later, I notice Tysa's teats are getting a bit out of the ordinary, bigger, and reddish, her belly appeared slightly bigger, but felt really solid rather than her soft "normal" belly. She'd had "false pregnancies" prior, and before I got PJ, so early on I never suspected anything out of the ordinary, until things did go differently. I ended up taking her to the vet, where it was confirmed she was pregnant. I was furious, and obviously very confused. I was 100% sure, without a doubt that it didn't happen here. While it was hard having both Tysa and PJ in the same house during her heat, they never once had a chance to mate. With me being off work still, and still on treatments, I rarely even left the house, and when I did, Tysa was in "Fort Knox" (her crate surrounded by an x-pen), and PJ was crated (his crate even fastened with tie wraps along all the seams). He even cut himself at one point trying so hard to get out, but he didn't and couldn't. Also they were not allowed outside together at all, not for a second.

The minute I get home from the vet, I call my friend, who insists that nothing happened when they were with him, I was so angry, and accused him of lying to me, which I knew damn well he was. This went on for a couple of weeks, still denying absolutely nothing happened there.

Anyway, it was research and desicion time for me. Tysa now over halfway into the pregnancy (from the day the dogs were at my friends house), I was very unsure of what to do. I asked advice from breeders I know and have been in touch with for years, vets all over town, and even asked on forums also. It came down to 3 options between all the people and places I had asked. 1. Abort by injection. 2. Pregnant spay. 3. Continue with the pregnancy.
The abortion by injection wasn't possible, she was too far in, and this is only done shortly after mating. Kind of like the morning after pill for humans, but a bit more complicated in dogs. 
So it was down to pregnant spay, or having the pups. I went back and fourth, back and fourth, weighing the pros/cons of each. After days of debate and with all the info at hand I finally made my desicion (which I didn't have long, the longer I waited, the harder it would be on Tysa if I was going to spay). In the end, I felt it was too risky to do a pregnant spay that far along. Both the breeders and veterinarians advised against it that far along. Had it been only a couple of weeks in, the decision to spay would've been simple. As it were, she would be having the litter.

I spent everyday talking to breeders and researching everything I could. I started the pre-natal care with Tysa, setting up the whelping area, getting all the supplies I would need and finding out exactly what to do and expect and what could go wrong during the whelping, the care of Tysa and the pups once they had arrived, even trying to calculate all the costs and what I would need during the 8 weeks (or longer) these pups would be here, and even started making up a contract.

After a couple of weeks of trying to force the truth out of my friend and getting nowhere, I tried to "play him". I told him since I had decided on letting Tysa have the litter, there was no point in being angry about it anymore and my focus should be what was important. Which is when the truth came out and he said something to the sort of "I knew you'd feel that way eventually, I let them mate because they are such awesome dogs, and I want one of their puppies!". I completely lost it, I replied with something in the vicinity of "You.....*bleep bleep bleep*.....you had no right, your a complete moron, you WON'T be getting one of these pups, and you can go straight to.....*bleep bleep*". I hung up on him, and I havn't talked to or seen him since. That is one "friend" I will never EVER forgive. Not only for deceiving me, but for risking the lives of my dogs. Anything could've happened during that mating, of which he knows bugger all about.........he had no right to take it upon himself to breed my dogs, and I'll never forgive myself for being so stupid as to trust someone else with them. On top of the problems that could've happened during the mating, I now had to worry about the risks still hanging over Tysa and the pups with the upcoming whelp.

Anyway, that's how it all came about. The pups were born on October 6th, eleven of them, seven females and four males. All eleven survived and are doing great now (I keep in regular contact with each of the owners), and believe me, I was lucky, VERY lucky that I didn't have to go through losing a pup (or pups). Without all the info I had gathered from numerous sources, I most certainly would've lost some of them. One of the little boys wasn't breathing at all after being released from the sac, he had swallowed so much fluid, and Tysa was popping them out so fast, I had to assist her, she couldn't keep up, by the time she had ripped one from the sac, another had been expelled. She couldn't both rip open the new pup still in the sac, and stimulate the previous pup to start breathing and clean/dry him/her off. The only somewhat lengthy spaces were between pup #1 and 2, and the final 3. And all eleven were delivered in less than 3 hours. I can tell you right now, it was extrememly hard, every part of it. And again I was VERY lucky that there weren't any major compications. The time, worry, work, sleepless nights, money......was insane. I did everything I could for these little ones, I made up strict contracts with the help of all these people who supported me through this (and yes, these people know me, and understood how upset and distraught I was over the whole ordeal). I understood completely those who lashed out at me on forums, as my values and beliefs on breeding are the same as theirs. And not knowing me well enough to seperate me from the BS'ers, I really couldn't blame them for being upset about it.
Those strict contracts I made, were just that.......STRICT.....It covered everything from having to attend socialization and training classes, keeping me updated on the pups progress, to take care of this dog mentally and physically (with specifics), that I have first refusal of the dog should they ever need to rehome him/her (for ANY reason), to SPAY/NEUTER their pup (by 8 months in females, 10 months in males) and send me proof from the licensed veterinarian who did the procedure, and a receipt of the cost (of which I will be refunding in full the cost of the spay/neuters), to see a licensed veterinarian within 48 hours of picking up the pup......etc. I also had a lot of help in the wording of how the court proceedings would be handled should the contract/s be broken. It also covered numerous things that I myself was binded to by contract.


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## britishbandit

I interviewed numerous couples and families who were interested in a pup, and found 9 of them awesome homes by 10 weeks of age (and started interviewing and keeping in touch with these people long before that). It was a difficult process, and I declined about 10 people that came, and at least another 10 before an interview had even taken place, they just weren't the kinds of people I wanted these puppies going to, which was my choice. And glad to have went with my gut, as somebody (I can only assume it was one of the people I declined, tried to steal PJ from out of my yard during this time, and nobody in their right minds would approach my dogs at the gate unless they had previously met them). I also aided the chosen owners in which puppy was best suited for them, which turned out excellent and they all agreed that I knew the pups better than they did and whatever I decided was fine with them, in a few cases, the pup they had singled out was the pup I would've chosen for them (and a good thing too or they wouldn't have got one of the pups). I also stated that since there had been no genetic testing done on Tysa and PJ (beside unofficial hips on Tysa), that once PJ turned 2, I would have them both tested and send each owner copies of the results. Obviously this should be done prior to any breeding, but under the circumstances, for my peronal records, there was no rush (and PJ was not yet 2).......but something I feel the new owners had a right to know and if anything tested poorly, they would at least have an idea of what to expect, watch for or try to prevent in future with their new pup. Each and every one of them knew the situation, knew the pups weren't planned, but also respected how seriously I was handling it. Each pup went away with enough food to last them the first week, or for the new owners to mix in with a new food, collars and leashes, a few toys (of the 50 or so I had bought for them), record books and proof of shots/deworming, and handouts in a folder (which ended up looking like a book) I had typed up from scratch on Rottweiler breed information, a list of how to determine a quality dog food (which I also listed "the good, the bad and the ugly" brands, as well as info on RAW feeding), what to expect during the growing stages of a pup/young dog, advice and info on teething, training........put it this way, everything I could think of that may be of use and help. 

I had also decided to keep one of the pups, that's where Maya came from, but I also still have Maya's sister who I've named (for now), "Cinder". Cinder's search for a forever home was put to a halt when Tysa was spayed just before Christmas, as Tysa didn't need to have to deal with people coming and going while she was recovering. And I was in no rush to place Cinder. I've just started the process again (the pups are now 15 weeks, today actually). And until that right person/family comes along, she will remain as part of this family. As for Maya, she is setting up to become a Therapy Dog. I have all the infomation and contacts ready, but we cannot start this until she turns a year of age. In the meantime, we are working hard on training and socialization (both her and Cinder).

So yes, in all honestly, I can be labelled a BYB, a title I am not proud of in the least. I do feel this was my fault to this day, despite the fact I was not the one who bred my dogs. (and how sick that makes me just typing it). However, this will not stop me stating my opinion or feeling guilty for doing so. To some it may sound hypocritical, and you're entitled to your own opinions also. If anything, this experience has given me all the more reason to want to educate and promote ethical and responsible breeding. Tysa is now spayed, PJ is getting neutered sometime in March/April (before Maya is old enough to go into heat), and this isn't something that will ever happen again. I have no interest in breeding, and feel this should be left in the hands of those people I admire and respect so highly for breeding to a standard that they take very seriously. I have volunteered at my local humane society for over a year now, an my heart lies in rescue. Well on top of my pets, which of course have embedded thier awesome selves into my heart also. My dream one day is to become a professional dog trainer and behaviorist, and start my own rescue. Whether I am able to make it all the way there or not, I don't know, but no harm in thinking big. If not a rescue of my own, I will do the same thing, just on a smaller scale. I want to take in these "problem dogs" that would otherwise be euthanized due to "behavioral' issues, or those that have just never had any training, and are "too wild" to adopt out. Work with them, and try to save as many from being euthanized as I possibly can. Even being the ethical and responsible breeder I preach about, I would still feel guilty for bringing more dogs into this world when there are already so many in shelters. And I'm not saying those who do it right have anything to be ashamed of, NOT IN THE LEAST! I applaud their efforts, and highly respect them. It's the BYB's and puppymills that are the reason there are so many "unwanted" dogs. And yes, I'm now guilty of having added to the problem, which I can only try and rectify from here on out.


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## Bings

Thankyou Britishbandit for your reply. I don't feel that you have anything to feel guilty about. Yours was a decission that was taken away from you, made by someone else. The fault lies with your friend (ex-friend).

I ask people not to lash out at me at this time. Simply because this family does not need the added stress it would create over the next week. AFTER the puppies are born people are more than welcome to. 

Our female had another good night. The panting of two nights ago seems to have stopped. Still just nibbling at her food all day long. She is FULL of energy. That has not lessened at all. She is sitting her with me, wagging her tail, nudging me to pet her. 

I will continue to keep everyone up to date. I feel that I have caused a lot of people to be concerned over the wellfare of my dogs, it would be unfair of me not to let you know how the next days go. And once again any little bits of advice is aways welcome.


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## britishbandit

Thank you for your reply Blings.

And I do understand what a stressful time this is for you, and regardless of why the breeding took place, there is no reason for me to be stubborn and not help where I am able to. Which is why I did in the first place. To what purpose of not helping would I be fulfilling? Would I be taking my frustrations about breeding out on you or your dog? I'd have to say the latter.  What's done is done, and I'd rather see you and your dog, and her puppies get through this and worry later about helping you (or anyone else for that matter), understand just how big of a problem BYB and puppymills really are (and I do realize there are many many different "versions" of BYB's, ranging from those who do not care about the welfare and wellbeing of their dog and are out for a "profit", to those who besides showing/competing *which I do think is extrememly important in finding out if the dog is breed worthy to begin with*, that do absolutely everything else within their power to do right by the dog and the pups).

Point is, you are right, and now is not the time for the debate on "to breed or not to breed". I ended up "blocking out" harsh comments and responding to my posts on forums as the time came nearer for Tysa's due date (which she ended up being one day early), simply because at the time, it was doing me no good. I was extrememly stressed out and frustrated, which wasn't going to help Tysa out in the least. I needed a clear head, and to be able to help my girl through all of this. 

Like I said, Tysa had 11 pups, which was A LOT! I had to bottle feed at times (when the pups would "take" a bottle), and add supplements to Tysa's food. Even still she was COMPLETELY drained. She's picked up a lot since, but at one point my healthy, beautiful girl, looked emaciated. To the point of looking like a black and tan Greyhound (which obviously Greyhounds are naturally slim, but not nice to see a Rottweiler look this way). Part of the reason being that her teats were soooo heavy they pulled her skin down and her ribs were really visible. She lost only about 6lbs from having the pups, but looked terrible for a few weeks there. I was EXTREMELY worried about her. I had discussed this thouroughly with my vet and breeder friends, making sure I was feeding enough and supplementing the right things too, and even being assured she would "pick up", I couldn't help but be concerned. So not only do you have to worry about the care of the pups, the care of the mother is also very important.

After the pups were born, I made up a sign to put on my front door also, stating to please not knock or ring the doorbell to anyone who happend to come over. I also told friends and family. If it was important that they saw me, to call first, and I would make sure Tysa was either outside, or not in the pen with the pups. Reason being for fear that the puppies may get trampled. If Tysa was startled by a knock or the doorbell, and jumped up to see who was here, I was worried about what could happen to the pups nursing on her or sleeping near her. Even the guy from the phone company that came over to check my line (which go figure went wacky soon after the pups were born), read the sign and called from the driveway to let me know he was there.

You should also know (if you don't already), that your girl may not want to eat for a day or two after the birth, or go outside/leave the pups. This is common and nothing to worry about. Although Tysa was eating and asking to go out to pee within hours of the delivery, I had been told this was fairly uncommon so soon. But be sure she is drinking plenty. She can go a day or two with no food, but to keep up her milk supply, she does need to drink and keep herself hydrated. And be SURE to have puppy replacement milk and bottles handy, IN CASE she does not accept the puppies, won't let them nurse (or not for long enough) or tries to harm them. You'll be in for a LONG TOUGH journey if she does this, but it does happen, and some bitches just aren't "natural mothers", so you would have to take on the position. If you don't have a weight scale, it's a good idea that you get one and montior their growth.


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## Leila12345666

Bings said:


> Thankyou Britishbandit for your reply. I don't feel that you have anything to feel guilty about. Yours was a decission that was taken away from you, made by someone else. The fault lies with your friend (ex-friend).
> 
> I ask people not to lash out at me at this time. Simply because this family does not need the added stress it would create over the next week. AFTER the puppies are born people are more than welcome to.
> 
> Our female had another good night. The panting of two nights ago seems to have stopped. Still just nibbling at her food all day long. She is FULL of energy. That has not lessened at all. She is sitting her with me, wagging her tail, nudging me to pet her.
> 
> I will continue to keep everyone up to date. I feel that I have caused a lot of people to be concerned over the wellfare of my dogs, it would be unfair of me not to let you know how the next days go. And once again any little bits of advice is aways welcome.




Now after reading your post ive realize those puppies will be more than welcome into your home and i wish you the best of luck. Please try to come back and keep up updated with pics maybe? Thanks.


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## rottielover

I just want to comment about BB's post. I went down with my daughter ( she is almost 3 ) to help socialize these little puppies. You have to remember they need stimulation and socialization before they leave very important.
I have seen what she has done, and did for Tysa and her pups. I could not even want to imagine 11 pups bottle feeding.
Be prepared. Mom may reject pups if this is her first time litter. If that is the case you are mommy, have a vet close by, find a vet that is open 24 hours, have them on call.
Anything can happen.
Tysa is spayed now, and I know so will Maya, and PJ. I have met her 2 times. If you have any questions do not hesitate to ask her in a PM, she is far from being a vet, but has gone through it, and has done it well.


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## Bings

We had another good night with our female. The panting and agitation of a few nights ago has not returned yet. Also still no signs of nesting. Day 58 and we are thrilled to have made it to another day. Keeping the house quiet and calm. Hard to do with 3 teenagers!!! One teen has gymnastics this morning so I will be away for about 3 hours. After that I am home all weekend. 

She is still just nibbling at food all day long, but is showing no loss of energy or ill effects from it. Was sitting here a minute ago, wagging tail and happy. 

Husband just got out of bed so both dogs are sucking up to him for thier morning outing. Our male dog walks the fenceline of our property each morning looking for new smells to roll in. YUCK!!! Deer, bear, skunk, ratcoon. He found something gross the other morning. Oh my god, the smell!!! While the male finds gross smells the female, who is more active, just runs and plays. May take 5 minutes, may take 30. But neither will come inside until the male has made it all the way around the property and then gone poop.

The male has been very whinny the past few days. They are a very close pair. I think he "know" something is about to happen. 

I will continue to keep everyone updated. Thank you so much for the kind words. Leila, they mean a lot. They help. 

Bings


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## Leila12345666

Ok thanks so much i cant wait to see thise cuties! By the way what breed are they?


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## Bings

Leila, They are Golden Retrievers. 

Another good day and night for our female. At this point she is holding up better than I am.

You can see that she is getting a little agitated, a little restless. Showing small signs of nesting. She goes go her bed, walks around in tight circles, scratches at the bedding, lays down, gets up walks around in circles, scratches at the bedding, lays back down. Constantly cleaning herself. Drinking a lot of water. Nibbling at food all day long. Hasn't lost any of her normal energy sence her eating habits changed so we are no longer concerned that she isn't eating enough. 

Will keep everyone posted.

Bings


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## Leila12345666

Ok so far so good then  I cant really wait to see pics! Will you post pictures please?


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## mistyinca

Bings said:


> Almost EVERYTHING Britishbandit posted I know already. But sometimes you can get great little pieces of advice from one person that another person may not mention. For instance, the "booger sucker" (nasal asperator) is very good advice my friend didn't mention although she may have one. I'm simply the type of person who values a second, third or even forth oppinion. You can learn so much from others if they would be more willing to share than to critsize.


I am confused as to what you are trying to do here. Are you simply asking for help so you can throw it back in another's face and say "ha ha, I already knew that."?

Then you want more information?


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## FranMan

britishbandit said:


> I interviewed numerous couples and families who were interested in a pup, and found 9 of them awesome homes by 10 weeks of age (and started interviewing and keeping in touch with these people long before that). It was a difficult process, and I declined about 10 people that came, and at least another 10 before an interview had even taken place, they just weren't the kinds of people I wanted these puppies going to, which was my choice. And glad to have went with my gut, as somebody (I can only assume it was one of the people I declined, tried to steal PJ from out of my yard during this time, and nobody in their right minds would approach my dogs at the gate unless they had previously met them). I also aided the chosen owners in which puppy was best suited for them, which turned out excellent and they all agreed that I knew the pups better than they did and whatever I decided was fine with them, in a few cases, the pup they had singled out was the pup I would've chosen for them (and a good thing too or they wouldn't have got one of the pups). I also stated that since there had been no genetic testing done on Tysa and PJ (beside unofficial hips on Tysa), that once PJ turned 2, I would have them both tested and send each owner copies of the results. Obviously this should be done prior to any breeding, but under the circumstances, for my peronal records, there was no rush (and PJ was not yet 2).......but something I feel the new owners had a right to know and if anything tested poorly, they would at least have an idea of what to expect, watch for or try to prevent in future with their new pup. Each and every one of them knew the situation, knew the pups weren't planned, but also respected how seriously I was handling it. Each pup went away with enough food to last them the first week, or for the new owners to mix in with a new food, collars and leashes, a few toys (of the 50 or so I had bought for them), record books and proof of shots/deworming, and handouts in a folder (which ended up looking like a book) I had typed up from scratch on Rottweiler breed information, a list of how to determine a quality dog food (which I also listed "the good, the bad and the ugly" brands, as well as info on RAW feeding), what to expect during the growing stages of a pup/young dog, advice and info on teething, training........put it this way, everything I could think of that may be of use and help.
> 
> I had also decided to keep one of the pups, that's where Maya came from, but I also still have Maya's sister who I've named (for now), "Cinder". Cinder's search for a forever home was put to a halt when Tysa was spayed just before Christmas, as Tysa didn't need to have to deal with people coming and going while she was recovering. And I was in no rush to place Cinder. I've just started the process again (the pups are now 15 weeks, today actually). And until that right person/family comes along, she will remain as part of this family. As for Maya, she is setting up to become a Therapy Dog. I have all the infomation and contacts ready, but we cannot start this until she turns a year of age. In the meantime, we are working hard on training and socialization (both her and Cinder).
> 
> So yes, in all honestly, I can be labelled a BYB, a title I am not proud of in the least. I do feel this was my fault to this day, despite the fact I was not the one who bred my dogs. (and how sick that makes me just typing it). However, this will not stop me stating my opinion or feeling guilty for doing so. To some it may sound hypocritical, and you're entitled to your own opinions also. If anything, this experience has given me all the more reason to want to educate and promote ethical and responsible breeding. Tysa is now spayed, PJ is getting neutered sometime in March/April (before Maya is old enough to go into heat), and this isn't something that will ever happen again. I have no interest in breeding, and feel this should be left in the hands of those people I admire and respect so highly for breeding to a standard that they take very seriously. I have volunteered at my local humane society for over a year now, an my heart lies in rescue. Well on top of my pets, which of course have embedded thier awesome selves into my heart also. My dream one day is to become a professional dog trainer and behaviorist, and start my own rescue. Whether I am able to make it all the way there or not, I don't know, but no harm in thinking big. If not a rescue of my own, I will do the same thing, just on a smaller scale. I want to take in these "problem dogs" that would otherwise be euthanized due to "behavioral' issues, or those that have just never had any training, and are "too wild" to adopt out. Work with them, and try to save as many from being euthanized as I possibly can. Even being the ethical and responsible breeder I preach about, I would still feel guilty for bringing more dogs into this world when there are already so many in shelters. And I'm not saying those who do it right have anything to be ashamed of, NOT IN THE LEAST! I applaud their efforts, and highly respect them. It's the BYB's and puppymills that are the reason there are so many "unwanted" dogs. And yes, I'm now guilty of having added to the problem, which I can only try and rectify from here on out.



So how much did you sell the puppies for?


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## britishbandit

FranMan said:


> So how much did you sell the puppies for?


Well that really is none of your business. Damn, no wonder you've been banned from so many other sites, you are truly ignorant. You should know full well everything that happened concerning the pups, you were a member of ROL and saw all of my posts and concerns. And like you are doing here, you caused problems there too with your bad attitude and got the boot. Put it this way, I didn't even break even on the costs of raising the litter. Now go crawl back into the hole you came from.


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## FranMan

britishbandit said:


> Well that really is none of your business. Damn, no wonder you've been banned from so many other sites, you are truly ignorant. You should know full well everything that happened concerning the pups, you were a member of ROL and saw all of my posts and concerns. And like you are doing here, you caused problems there too with your bad attitude and got the boot. Put it this way, I didn't even break even on the costs of raising the litter. Now go crawl back into the hole you came from.


Oh someone is touchy. I am not sure you should be a dog owner. I hope you don't have this temper with your dogs. I didn't follow your threads on ROL. I forgot it was you if you really want to know. I thought the person with 11 pups was a real breeder. 

As far as this thread goes... I've meet a lot of people and know that many many people have hidden agendas. I am not saying that is the case with you. But it is pretty odd that someone is pro fixing their dogs and not getting a dog unless you have the money has two unfixed dogs that happen to breed at the time you have no money. 1000 bucks for a rottweiler times 10 can pay some bills.

As far as ROL, me and a mod got in a disagreement in PM's. The rule over there is you HAVE to respect a mod just because they are a mod. If they disrespect you aren't allowed to say anything. I don't agree with that and of course they have ban button. What other forums am I banned from

You say I have a bad attitude because I don't agree with you. If that's how it works then you have a bad attitude also. The point of an open forum is to get all of the options out there not to tell them to "get real".


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## britishbandit

FranMan said:


> Oh someone is touchy. I am not sure you should be a dog owner. I hope you don't have this temper with your dogs. I didn't follow your threads on ROL. I forgot it was you if you really want to know. I thought the person with 11 pups was a real breeder.


Maybe if you actually took the time to read posts, you would have know the situation. Point is, you only read what you want to read, and hear what you want to hear......the rest is just over your head. 



FranMan said:


> As far as this thread goes... I've meet a lot of people and know that many many people have hidden agendas. I am not saying that is the case with you. But it is pretty odd that someone is pro fixing their dogs and not getting a dog unless you have the money has two unfixed dogs that happen to breed at the time you have no money. 1000 bucks for a rottweiler times 10 can pay some bills.


Maybe so, but I have no hidden agendas. Would you like to see a copy of Tysa's spay certificate? HAHA I never said I had no money when the pups were born, I didn't at the time she got pregnant, and as stated many times before, this didn't happen in my home, and I did not know she was pregnant. You also would have known Tysa was delayed being spayed earlier because I had a surgery myself, and PJ was not neutered because he was going to be shown. As for $1000/pup, I never asked anything EVEN CLOSE to that much, you are truly deluded. I am also refunding spay/neuter fees once proof is given. As for what I did charge for the pups, it was HALF of what YOU THINK.



FranMan said:


> As far as ROL, me and a mod got in a disagreement in PM's. The rule over there is you HAVE to respect a mod just because they are a mod. If they disrespect you aren't allowed to say anything. I don't agree with that and of course they have ban button. What other forums am I banned from


No, you can disagree with the mods, but when you say stupid stuff, get warned and then continue to press the issue (sound familiar?), that's why you get banned. From what I hear you were banned from rott.net also. You don't have a very loyal following do you? I wonder why.....HAHA.



FranMan said:


> You say I have a bad attitude because I don't agree with you. If that's how it works then you have a bad attitude also. The point of an open forum is to get all of the options out there not to tell them to "get real".


No, I am fine with people disagreeing with me, you however are not. The only reason you starting this little arguement (troll), is because I disagreed with you telling someone to use a prong collar on a 5 month old dog, and a shock collar on a Pointer for grabbing food off a counter. You are trying to find some way to get back at me (maybe you think I made you look bad), which isn't working for ya is it? LOL

Keep it up, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before your true self is show and you are banned from here also.


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## FranMan

britishbandit said:


> Maybe if you actually took the time to read posts, you would have know the situation. Point is, you only read what you want to read, and hear what you want to hear......the rest is just over your head.


I read your post. Doesn't mean I buy in to it 100%.




britishbandit said:


> Maybe so, but I have no hidden agendas. Would you like to see a copy of Tysa's spay certificate? HAHA I never said I had no money when the pups were born, I didn't at the time she got pregnant,


Here is what you said "Point being, surviving was hard enough as it was, so the cost of a spay was just out of the question." You at the time did you know you were going to get back pay????





britishbandit said:


> No, you can disagree with the mods, but when you say stupid stuff, get warned and then continue to press the issue (sound familiar?), that's why you get banned. From what I hear you were banned from rott.net also. You don't have a very loyal following do you? I wonder why.....HAHA.


That doesn't sound familiar. I said very little on ROL. Me and nutz4rots got in to in PM. He didn't like the size of my pictures and PM'ed right after I disagreed about avatar size. Told me I had to resize images, which is fine. He got upset when I asked him why out of the blue it is was problem and not the months before while I was posting them. That upset him in which I was told I had to respect him because he was a mod. It was down hill from there. Of course when I was told I HAD to respect him I knew the site wasn't for me. I am sure the PM's are still in my box over there have the real admin of their forward them to you. 

As for rottweiler.net I am not banned from there. That site is horrible though. They filter all your posts. If they don't agree with it they don't approve the post. A site that filters what is said based on their personal opinion is worthless. Freedom of speech is valuable.

As far as my loyal following. I own a couple forums totaling thousands of members. I'd say it is about 50/50 on if they like me  All my members are treated fair tho....




britishbandit said:


> No, I am fine with people disagreeing with me, you however are not. The only reason you starting this little arguement (troll), is because I disagreed with you telling someone to use a prong collar on a 5 month old dog, and a shock collar on a Pointer for grabbing food off a counter. You are trying to find some way to get back at me (maybe you think I made you look bad), which isn't working for ya is it? LOL


Now the name calling? Debate drives discussion and I am always learning from it. I don't mind being wrong. If I am wrong I'd like to know about it. The problem is when people say I am wrong but don't have any reason why. 




britishbandit said:


> Keep it up, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before your true self is show and you are banned from here also.


As long as the mods are like Curbside Prophet I don't think there will be a problem. While CP and I don't see eye to eye he doesn't ride on the power trip roller coaster. Nothing I say is out of line it is just an opinion. 


You did answer my question. If you are really breaking even on the puppies I can respect that you truly had in accident. I've been wondering for a while after reading your post.


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## britishbandit

That's fine, you can believe whatever you want to believe. I have nothing to hide here. I've answered anything asked of me, and with complete honesty. I have no reason to lie to a bunch of people I don't know. As for the "name calling", a troll is classified as someone trying to cause problems, flame, pick fights. Which is exactly what you are (or were) trying to do. I don't think it is name calling when when it's the truth though. 

You must also remember that a litter of pups isn't raised with peanuts. There is money spent, and since not all of the pups left at 8 weeks, there was additional shots, 2nd and 3rd to be done, vet checks, another deworming (to be safe), larger collars, more food, extra crate and no I did not try to "get more" money for pups that I had spent more on. As I said, I did not even break even covering the costs of having the litter, not by a mile.


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## bearlasmom

CAnt we all just get along, lmao

Look ya all, i would love to hear how mom and babies are doing and hopefully i am not upsetting anyone by saying it doesnt matter why someone gets banned from other forums. Sometimes one gets banned for telling other posters taht they should not bash people becuase they come from a sexual gender that a fellow poster did not like or telling someone from a different religious background thatt they are a heathen is wrong. I had been banned from seefido.com because i jumped in aide of posters who were being attacked for asking questions on breeding their dogs and certain others on the forum did not like people breeding period but they were alleged breeders themselves. I also went to the resuce of a person whose sexual preference went under attack because they said they like male dogs not female. and another i backed up because i told them religion was for the religious forum. i pulled out a substantial sized order for supplies from seefido and guess what? banned within seconds. i am glad though because i love this forum and another one that i have been on that specializes in GSD for a long long time. This one i love because the people are truely loving of their dogs. Thank you all now that i have that off my chest. 

So how are the babies and mom anyway? PICS!!!!!!!


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## britishbandit

bearlasmom said:


> So how are the babies and mom anyway? PICS!!!!!!!


Are you asking me or the OP? LOL Well if it's me, Tysa is doing wonderful, she was spayed on December 20th, and healed fairly quickly. She's put her weight back on and back to being my spunky and active gal. I kept one of the pups (Maya), and she's very much a daddy's girl. PJ is such a big softy, and totally adores his daughter.

The pups are all doing awesome, I keep in touch with all the new owners and we set up play dates every couple of weeks. Usually only 2 or 3 of the pups at one time, as not everyone can get out at the same time, same days. They are all enrolled in puppy classes (which was part of their contracts), and are coming along well. I have yet another playdate set up for Saturday, where I'll get to see how Lola and Max are doing. 

You can see pics of the pups that I took up until they left, and some of after they left on our playdates on my photobucket account. 
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/britishbandit/?start=all


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## FranMan

britishbandit said:


> Are you asking me or the OP? LOL Well if it's me, Tysa is doing wonderful, she was spayed on December 20th, and healed fairly quickly. She's put her weight back on and back to being my spunky and active gal. I kept one of the pups (Maya), and she's very much a daddy's girl. PJ is such a big softy, and totally adores his daughter.
> 
> The pups are all doing awesome, I keep in touch with all the new owners and we set up play dates every couple of weeks. Usually only 2 or 3 of the pups at one time, as not everyone can get out at the same time, same days. They are all enrolled in puppy classes (which was part of their contracts), and are coming along well. I have yet another playdate set up for Saturday, where I'll get to see how Lola and Max are doing.
> 
> You can see pics of the pups that I took up until they left, and some of after they left on our playdates on my photobucket account.
> http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/britishbandit/?start=all


Is that you in the pictures?


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## britishbandit

I am in some of them yes. Some have friends, friends daughter, and my mother and her friend are in one also.


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## Tess&Coco

The photos are wonderful. They speak volumes of the dedication and care that you and your family/friends etc took of the puppies (and of course Tysa and PJ) regardless of how they came into being. An example of how to turn a potentially bad situation into something positive. It was not your irresponsibility that caused your dogs to breed, but it *was* your responsibility that meant the outcome was 11 well loved and cared for dogs.


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## FranMan

britishbandit said:


> I am in some of them yes. Some have friends, friends daughter, and my mother and her friend are in one also.


So that's what you look like

http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/britishbandit/?action=view&current=c.jpg


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## Tess&Coco

Didn't Britishbandit say somewhere that she's a she??? It's that chromosome thing again, FranMan


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## Tamara

Anyway Lady Britishbandit your dogs are gorgeous and Tysa's pups are bouncing beauties


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## FranMan

Tess&Coco said:


> Didn't Britishbandit say somewhere that she's a she??? It's that chromosome thing again, FranMan


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## bearlasmom

congrats on the pups. I am glad they are doing well.


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