# Strong or Weak Herding Drive?



## Affirmed (Jul 6, 2016)

I have a 4 month old miniature American/Australian shepherd and I'm kinda stuck on his herding drive. We live out in the country and have 3 ducks, which are relatively easy to herd, I do it every night to put them up. Jude first saw them when he was about 9 weeks old, he immediately was interested and sniffed them but never chased them or try to make them move. An incident happened where my moms tiny toy poodle herded my ducks, but ended up running them into a fence, injuring 2. They were fine after a few minutes of rest but now have a hatred of dogs. When they see the toy poodles or my puppy they charge and start chasing and try to nip them. Jude LOVES this game and when I go outside everyday to work on their enclosure and supplies he goes out with me and plays with the ducks - he runs by them to start the game but never ever tries to hurt them. 
Yet with things other than ducks he shows off his herding drive - he herds kids, cats, he LOVES to herd his toy balls (tennis ball, yoga ball, medium plastic ball) in the yard and nips at them like he would a sheep. He moves around and fusses at the toys as if he were herding a living thing.
So would he ever be a herding dog? I'm thinking maybe the whole ducks chasing him may have been the cause of him never herding them but even before then he never tried.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

There is no reliable way for you to know at this age, and no way you can know based on anything but exposure to actual stock. Lots of puppies look *very* herdy but have no interest in doing anything but chasing after livestock (not herding, that's purposeful, just chasing) and some dogs don't turn on until 2 or 3 years old. Some will play games with toys, but have no interest or ability with the real thing. Some are interested young and either never develop or lose it. 

There's just... no way to judge based on puppy behavior, ducks who aren't acting 'right' (and are chasing HIM) and toys. That said, a really herdy adult would probably herd the ducks just fine, regardless, but with a puppy in the mix and inexperienced it's just... Who knows.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

As a total aside, my sheltie/beagle/chi/terrier (all around mutt basically) also fussed at, nipped at, and stalked her toys. That's just a puppy thing. My BC did it a little more, seemed to move differently and practiced 'the eye' on toys and other dogs, but mostly it all faded out around 6 months old and I didn't see it again until she was 2. She's much more discerning in what she'll direct it on now. 

Sheep, cows, robins (okay this one's weird) and deer - and the deer thing as because she has become very, very useful at acting like a 'goose dog' with deer in my yard. If she wants to round the freaking things up and chase them off, power to her, good girl. Dogs, toys, cats, kids, whatever? No. Okay, occasionally Thud, but mostly no.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Best way for you to know is to just test him out once he's an appropriate age. Chances are he will probably earn his HIC no problems, since he's a MAS


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

...I know poodles and labs that have HICs. they're good things to earn! But they're not going to tell you much about actual herding ability/instinct/desire. I DO agree he'll likely get it, though!


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## Affirmed (Jul 6, 2016)

Good! I had seen things about herding people testing their puppies skills and interest at a young age and then only using the ones who showed interest so I thought there must be logic behind that but your answers make more sense. There are lots of livestock where we live so when he gets to the right age I'll try him out on some sheep. Thanks! I'm glad it's not a "if he won't do it now he won't do it ever" kinda deal.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Affirmed said:


> Good! I had seen things about herding people testing their puppies skills and interest at a young age and then only using the ones who showed interest so I thought there must be logic behind that but your answers make more sense. There are lots of livestock where we live so when he gets to the right age I'll try him out on some sheep. Thanks! I'm glad it's not a "if he won't do it now he won't do it ever" kinda deal.


Nah. Some people will toss even 8 week old puppies, or 4 month old ones or whatever and see what they do, but it's not much of a barometer, at least not for people who are serious about herding trials or have farms. Basically, think more like '2 years' and shelf it to worry about later.


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## Affirmed (Jul 6, 2016)

I can do that. I can easily find sheep trials for him once he's 2 around here since raising livestock is still pretty big here. In the meantime he's getting acclimated into flyball and obedience so we have time lol (nothing that will heir his growth plates though!)


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