# Bouvier grooming technique



## Bart (Jul 15, 2010)

I just got an old (1974) book on Bouviers and in the grooming section it describes a procedure as an alternative to an annual takedown. In the book, those are the only two choices. It doesn't mention rolling a coat like with a schnauzer or terrier or the Coat King tools (obviously because it was before those).

The procedure is:

1. Slicker brush and comb with coarse comb (this much is the regular routine)
2. Back brush with pin brush and back comb with coarse comb
3. Back comb again with fine comb.
4. Rebursh with slicker with the grain

The book refers to this as "monthly stripping"

A knife is used to thin the cheeks or shorten areas as are the thinning shears but it's not mentioned for the whole jacket other than the takedown alternative.

The procedure is interesting and I guess the back combing thins the undercoat sufficiently if it's done often enough.

Any opionions on this technique? Any specific tools recommendations for it? Right now I have a slicker (I already asked about that), and a coarse/medium greyhound comb. What's a good pin brush and fine comb?

I'm going to try to visit a groomer I found who has 3 bouviers not too far away. I'll probably get a groom done and see what I can learn.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

We've had 2 Bouviers, and now have a BRT. 
I would _highly_ recommend getting a Coat King!
I wish we'd have had one when we had our Bouv's.


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## Bart (Jul 15, 2010)

I got three Coat Kings. I quit them after the last time I clipped the coat at the beginning of July. The advice is in this thread: http://www.dogforums.com/dog-grooming-forum/81943-good-slicker.html
makes me want to find a better solution. That's why I'm checking out alternative techniques. I even looked at handstripping but I haven't found any straightforward directions on a Bouvier. One book talks about hand stripping with a knife, rolling or takedown but the author just mentions it without giving directions other than the pulling technique -- doesn't mention which hair to pull. There's better directions for schnauzers and terriers but these coats are a little different. Their coat should be quite wiry and shorter. In my bouvier's coat, I would get lost with those methods. This handstripping author actually uses the Coat Kings as well, to "muck out" the undercoat. When I really analyzed the book, I determined they hardly knew what they were talking about and the book contained a number of errors in fact. The book does have some specific scissoring instructions though. The author was both a professional groomer and bouvier show breeder. I'm not saying their techniques aren't viable, but they are like most everyone's influenced by ill-informed advice and "the way we've always done it."

I'm not looking to re-invent the wheel. I'm just looking for some instructions that I can follow that will produce the best possible results. Someone else can get awesome results, but if they can't tell me how to do the same, it's no good to me. They can tell me exactly what to do to get mediocre results and I'll keep looking.

I tried carding with a coarse knife and I found that it took out a lot of guard hairs with the undercoat. Maybe my knife is too sharp. It also produced little overall. My Bouv's coat is about 1 1/2" long now and I have a feeling as it gets longer carding won't help anymore with this coat type.

I've been doing the technique described in the original post on this thread and found that back combing with a fine comb takes out only undercoat but not huge amounts of it like the Coat King. It seems to be working fairly well and there's no mystery to it as with hand stripping.


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

The process you describe from that book (and yes, 1974 is very oldschool...hehe) are what we today call line brushing. Generally, the step that is most important is the very fine tooth comb, as that is what is removing the undercoat..the other steps are just the process you do in order to be able to get that fine tooth comb THRU the coat at all..However, I would skip the pin brush step, as its useless IMO. 

I stand by NO coat kings! lol

It would help if I knew what you were wanting to accomplish? Do you want the coat thinner? Really, you only want to remove the undercoat that is loose/dead/shedding. Bouv's should not be a single coat, so you don't want to remove all of it, or even tons of it..you want that bulk in the coat..(now this is for show of course, and "correct" breed standard.) If its a pet, and you want ease of maintenance, less coat to deal with and keep in short trim, thats a different story, and you can rip a coat king thru the coat, because by the time you notice the damage 4 or 5 weeks later, you will be cutting the coat down again. THe reason you see so much coat coming out with the coat king is because it is both pulling some undercoat, and cutting alot more undercoat and outercoat...hence the wads of hair. ;-)

The reason you don't find much on taking down the jacket is because, correctly, it is left long and fairly natural. It is combed and brushed, and for show, some debulking here and there to show layback of shoulder, fix a topline, neck, rear angulation, etc..length is not taken off. Dead guard hairs can be stripped out, and should be stripped, not clipped (however clipping a pet is fine). If you want to strip the coat, you ALWAYS strip the longest hairs. Those are the ones that are dead or close to dead, so its really the same as any terrier, but no one really explains it that way. Always strip the longest layer of coat..on any breed you are stripping. You are right..carding is not going to be much help as your dogs coat gets longer, and I would be surprised if you find it any use after 1/2 inch long coat. 

On pet bouviers, I find they look very nice with shorter bodies...like a 1-2 inch attachment on the body, with fuller legs and a tiny bit of underbelly "skirt" hair..and a correct (but downsized) head. If you have never seen or touched a show bouvier head...shudder...thats alot of messy hair! LOL And on a pet, the look can be achieved without that much work of maintaining it.


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## Bart (Jul 15, 2010)

Took the dog to the groomer today. I got a recommendation from a breeder that shows bouviers, I had a long drive but I was thinking I was going to get a wonderful groom for $90-120 that I could hope to copy myself, but I could tell it was going to be a different story as soon as I stepped inside. It was a high volume (smell) operation. There were a few helpers that probably do nothing but move dogs from the crates to the table, clean crates, bathe dogs, blow dry and maybe grind nails or do shave downs. The owner is the only skilled groomer, but that's a relative term.

I told them I wanted the correct cut for the breed, assuming they knew what they were doing because the groomer herself has several bouviers and grooms a bouvier breeder's show dogs. I asked for no coat kings, tight feet and not to clipper/shorten the jacket. She wanted to shorten the jacket a little bit because she thought it would be only a short time before it would be too long.

My dog got a schnauzer head job with the bouvier jacket and legs. The feet were cut with straight shears, hacked like a polygon instead of rounded. She could chat a lot about bouviers but not so much about grooming so I didn't learn anything except from what I saw. I didn't get to watch the job itself, just the results. It was $50, which to me was cheap but I could see the charges for at least another 20 dogs they had done that day (it was only 2pm) on the same page and there were some $70, some $90. I figure the $90 job must have been a bargain on someone's show poodle or someone didn't groom their OES for 4 months.

The job did help me keep from falling behind on clippering the groin (I did a half-baked job about a month ago) and scissoring the edges of the ears (I've been afraid to cut the ear), and plucking the ear hair (he don't like that!). I need to start using a table, get some shears and learn those skills. I am sure I could do better feet even just with thinning shears right away.

My son said, "I liked him yesterday better." My wife said he looks like a girl. Actually I think the complete description was a bald headed girl with a beard and high heels!


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## Graco22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Well, thats too bad you didn't get the job you were hoping for...hopefully you can find another groomer who can get you what you want in the future, when you are ready for some "help." I guess, for $50, (dirt cheap in my neck of the woods..you would have been looking at at LEAST $100 to start) it was a cheap lesson learned. Definitely get yourself a grooming table, some shears, and start practicing..You will learn how to groom your dog in time. Be prepared to mess up..its only dog hair, it will grow back, and that lesson will be well learned.


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## MoosMom (Sep 15, 2009)

The one I groom is a 0 snap or an E snap in winter. To be honest I use an undercoat rake to remove all that coat and my snaps go through very easily.


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