# Performance Puppy



## Springermagic (Sep 17, 2015)

Hi. I have a 10 week old puppy that I am planning on training in agility, barn hunt, dock diving, and possibly rally-o and nosework. Right we are working on basic fundamentals like focus and recalls. I have a friend that likes to interrupt how I train and does not understand that he is still a baby. She also doesn't understand that I train in a completely different fashion than she does. I find it probably more annoying than anything. I am afraid that if I tell her anything, she will take offense, and I do enjoy spending time with her otherwise. She's only met him twice and I've managed to get her to stop by redirecting my guy or picking him up and coddling him. 

How do you handle this and is it better if I am the only one that trains him at this stage to build up the focus and drive for later?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I trained both of my dogs starting from the day they came home at 8-9 weeks. My 6 month old puppy started in agility foundations with a private lesson at 4 months and has been in obedience classes since 9 weeks. I've also done some online foundations level classes with her. She is naturally a focused and biddable puppy and has enjoyed everything we've done and wanted more. My older dog was much more distractable and wild at this age so we did what he could do and kept things short. Every dog is different, but most people involved in dog sports start foundation training right away.

Honestly, I don't have any advice for how to deal with your friend because it would vary based on your relationship and what she's doing. But I really don't let stuff like that get to me. My husband is only interested in our dogs as family pets, he isn't interested in doing sports himself, and so sometimes he does things that make me cringe a little (asking for a stay and then not enforcing it, for example). I show him nicely how I am working on it, or just tell him not to use that cue in general which is usually easier. It really doesn't cause any conflict, and I let the little stuff go. At the end of the day, I care if the dogs listen to me and want to train with me - if they blow off my husband because he hasn't been consistent, then oh well. We both have the relationships we want with the dogs and it's ok that those relationships are different.

What specifically does she do? If she's not a constant presence in the dog's life (like a spouse or roommate would be), then I would be inclined to let it go. Your dog's future performance career isn't going to be ruined by one person teaching him some wrong stuff. You're the one who will be the most important person in his life. Maybe just spend time with her and the puppy in a casual environment, like out at a cafe, and don't talk about training so much if it's causing arguments. If she tells you to do something with him that makes you uncomfortable or contradicts what you've done, then just say he's your puppy and you're making the training decisions and leave it at that.


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## Springermagic (Sep 17, 2015)

Magic and I are doing a retired Fenzi puppy class and my trainer has given me plenty of reading material to start with. We are in a puppy kindergarten class now and will start training with my agility/obedience/barnhunt trainer next month. 

_"What specifically does she do? If she's not a constant presence in the dog's life (like a spouse or roommate would be), then I would be inclined to let it go. Your dog's future performance career isn't going to be ruined by one person teaching him some wrong stuff. You're the one who will be the most important person in his life." _

She will say a command like down or shake and try to lure him into positions I don't think he's old enough to probably be forced into, like sitting pretty. If he doesn't respond to the command, she will progressively get louder and try to force him into what she wants him to do. The only cue I have been working with him is that his name means to give me attention, and come means to come to me, but we aren't ready for anything like that out in public yet or even just when the distraction of her dog is present. His puppy brain just can't quite comprehend that. 

I think the force that she uses is really what bothers me. She did the same thing with my last dog, who had issues with resource guarding. Being forceful didn't help the situation any, but she met my other dog when she was older and did already know things so it wasn't as much stress on her. I think I am a little more overprotective because of my last dog. She recently died at the age of 2 from kidney failure and none of the tests could pinpoint the reason. 

My friend would also like to feed Magic...a lot...and sometimes things I'm not fond of, like cat kibble. We met while walking dogs so a lot of our friendship has revolved around dogs, but we seem to have completely different philosophies about how to raise and train them. She would probably see him about once a week for a couple of hours, so not a constant presence, but a consistent one.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Springermagic said:


> _"What specifically does she do? If she's not a constant presence in the dog's life (like a spouse or roommate would be), then I would be inclined to let it go. Your dog's future performance career isn't going to be ruined by one person teaching him some wrong stuff. You're the one who will be the most important person in his life." _
> 
> She will say a command like down or shake and try to lure him into positions I don't think he's old enough to probably be forced into, like sitting pretty. If he doesn't respond to the command, she will progressively get louder and try to force him into what she wants him to do. The only cue I have been working with him is that his name means to give me attention, and come means to come to me, but we aren't ready for anything like that out in public yet or even just when the distraction of her dog is present. His puppy brain just can't quite comprehend that.
> 
> ...


How close is this friend?? The forcing a puppy into position so wouldn't fly with me....at all. If I were in your shoes, I would find a tactful but firm way to say a) please don't force my puppy into doing whatever commands he doesn't understand right now and b) please don't feed my puppy stuff like cat kibble...and you could use stomach upset as an excuse. But...I'm a big fan of being our dogs advocates and stand up for them when they need us to. It sounds like Magic might need an advocate here. If she were really a close or good friend....she would understand where you're coming from and back off when asked.


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## Springermagic (Sep 17, 2015)

MrsBoats said:


> How close is this friend?? The forcing a puppy into position so wouldn't fly with me....at all. If I were in your shoes, I would find a tactful but firm way to say a) please don't force my puppy into doing whatever commands he doesn't understand right now and b) please don't feed my puppy stuff like cat kibble...and you could use stomach upset as an excuse. But...I'm a big fan of being our dogs advocates and stand up for them when they need us to. It sounds like Magic might need an advocate here. If she were really a close or good friend....she would understand where you're coming from and back off when asked.


Thank you for this...I feel so overprotective right now, that I sort of feel like I am being too nitpicky, but I guess my instincts were more on point. She hasn't been around him much and every time I feel like he's in a situation he might get stressed, I pull him out of it. I have told my friend at times that there are things that he just isn't ready for and get disapproving looks, but it hasn't created real issues, yet. I'm incredibly non-confrontational but want the best for this pup to the point that I am willing to be confrontational. I just didn't want to do it if it wasn't necessary.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

You're not being overprotective. Feeding cat kibble and forcing into positions would not fly with me, either.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I agree with MrsBoats. If she is forcing your puppy to do things, you need to step up and be your puppy's advocate. Gently but firmly tell her that's not how you're training him and that she can't do that to him. Tell her that you are handling his training and while you're open to suggestions, she cannot train your dog. If she tries to feed him foods you don't approve of, say he has a sensitive stomach or allergies or something and absolutely can't have food outside of his normal diet. 

I think it's fine to talk about training with dog friends, but in general it's in everybody's best interest if people don't try to train each others dogs. She is stepping over a line there and it's fine to tell her to back off.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

Where does the cat food come from? Is it something that your friend often carries with her? If so I'd be inclined to carry something myself, something of super high value to the pup. For example, tiny tidbits of stinky cheese or meat. Whenever the friend tries to entice the pup with cat kibble, immediately pull out the meat and re-direct your pup with that, getting right under his nose allowing him to smell it, and then back up and say something like _"oh look what *I've* got !!! look look look !!!". _Simply draw him away from your friend and towards you, and deliver the treat once your pup has disengaged from her and is paying attention to you. In fact, feed two or three or more treats in a row with short pauses in between, to ensure the pup remains engaged with you at that point. Reserve the meat for just these occasions. And repeat 'the lesson' as required, 25 times per get together if that what it takes.

That should send a very powerful message to both parties - pup and friend - right there, without actually needing to say anything further. If your friend is so thick-headed that she doesn't pick up on things, then come right out and tell her your expectations. Politely, but bluntly.


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## Springermagic (Sep 17, 2015)

petpeeve said:


> Where does the cat food come from? Is it something that your friend often carries with her? If so I'd be inclined to carry something myself, something of super high value to the pup. For example, tiny tidbits of stinky cheese or meat. Whenever the friend tries to entice the pup with cat kibble, immediately pull out the meat and re-direct your pup with that, getting right under his nose allowing him to smell it, and then back up and say something like _"oh look what *I've* got !!! look look look !!!". _Simply draw him away from your friend and towards you, and deliver the treat once your pup has disengaged from her and is paying attention to you. In fact, feed two or three or more treats in a row with short pauses in between, to ensure the pup remains engaged with you at that point. Reserve the meat for just these occasions. And repeat 'the lesson' as required, 25 times per get together if that what it takes.
> 
> That should send a very powerful message to both parties - pup and friend - right there, without actually needing to say anything further. If your friend is so thick-headed that she doesn't pick up on things, then come right out and tell her your expectations. Politely, but bluntly.


She actually started carrying treats after I was while I was training my other dog. When she realized her dog liked cat food more than other stuff she began to use that as treats for her dog. With my last dog, I kinda did what you suggested actually, but my dog wasn't food motivated or toy motivated or anything motivated and was difficult to train. She took a lot of patience. My puppy is toy and food motivated so that should work a lot better. Actually having a tug toy might be enough to draw him away. Hmmmm... thinking if I just tell her I'm training with toys (around her) then food won't be in the picture.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

petpeeve said:


> Where does the cat food come from? Is it something that your friend often carries with her? If so I'd be inclined to carry something myself, something of super high value to the pup.  For example, tiny tidbits of stinky cheese or meat. Whenever the friend tries to entice the pup with cat kibble, immediately pull out the meat and re-direct your pup with that, getting right under his nose allowing him to smell it, and then back up and say something like _"oh look what *I've* got !!! look look look !!!". _Simply draw him away from your friend and towards you, and deliver the treat once your pup has disengaged from her and is paying attention to you. In fact, feed two or three or more treats in a row with short pauses in between, to ensure the pup remains engaged with you at that point. Reserve the meat for just these occasions. And repeat 'the lesson' as required, 25 times per get together if that what it takes.
> 
> That should send a very powerful message to both parties - pup and friend - right there, without actually needing to say anything further. If your friend is so thick-headed that she doesn't pick up on things, then come right out and tell her your expectations. Politely, but bluntly.


This whole cat kibble thing opens up a performance dog can of worms too. This is teaching your puppy that other people have good things to offer...you have to teach your future performance dog that all good things come from you. I would absolutely do what Petpeeve suggests because you want your puppy to believe that what you offer trumps what other people are offering. That's a great way to tell her to cut it out because you want your performance puppy to believe that all great things come from its handler...that's one of the ways you build relationships that will carry you through a performance in the ring.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

petpeeve said:


> That should send a very powerful message to both parties - pup and friend - right there, without actually needing to say anything further.


Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with this? I would just tell her that you don't want her to feed your pup. Or ask that she play this game with you where you call the puppy away from her treats to get your treats (maybe she'll enjoy the fact that she can help you train?). But I wouldn't just start doing it without saying anything. Seems very passive aggressive.


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## Springermagic (Sep 17, 2015)

elrohwen said:


> Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with this? I would just tell her that you don't want her to feed your pup. Or ask that she play this game with you where you call the puppy away from her treats to get your treats (maybe she'll enjoy the fact that she can help you train?). But I wouldn't just start doing it without saying anything. Seems very passive aggressive.


The biggest problem I have with shoving food in his face the same time somebody else is, is that it could be really confusing for him. Also, I could see it being passive aggressive. I do like the idea of having her help me, especially for exercises that require someone to hold him. I'll try that first. Thanks.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Springermagic said:


> The biggest problem I have with shoving food in his face the same time somebody else is, is that it could be really confusing for him. Also, I could see it being passive aggressive. I do like the idea of having her help me, especially for exercises that require someone to hold him. I'll try that first. Thanks.


Yeah, she could help you with restrained recalls. Or have her give you pup attention or hold out food, then when you call him away she goes neutral and stops giving him attention (or closes her hand around her food so he can't get it). Maybe if you give her something specific that you want her to do, she won't feel the need to make up her own training stuff.


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