# Is a papillon good for a first time owner?



## newpupmom (Jun 14, 2012)

So I have made my mistakes and now I want to get things right. I am searching for the right fit for us. I have decided a rescued dog that is an adult and proven with cats and children would be better for me. First of all the rescue I am looking through temperament tests all their dogs. 
Anyway there is a six year old neutered papillon. I have read they are good with first time dog owners. Plus it is an adult. 
Can anyone give me insight on them? 
I have read they can be catlike and that drAws me to them. 

I want a small companion dog. I want a dog that wants tO be with me. I want a dog that does well with children and cats. I want a dog that can walk a mile with me once or twice a day in good weather. I want a dog I can take with me places when I visit my mom with dogs andy I laws with dogs.


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## littleorphanmolly (Jun 18, 2012)

I could have wrote this same thread. 
Pugs are my favorite breed but I am open to other small companion dogs as long as it fits my family. 
I try to walk a mile every day too. But we have harsh winters and I don't want to walk that far in the freeze. 
Anxious to read replies.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I've had 7 papillons so far and will likely have many more in the future. They are GREAT dogs but like any breed are not for everyone. All dogs and papillons are individuals and mine vary a ton. If you're looking at an adult dog then it is best to talk to the foster people/previous owners and figure out if that dog in particular is what you want. If you're looking for a puppy, then find a good breeder who can point you in the right direction and match a puppy to you with an appropriate energy level.

The biggest things I can say about papillons is that they do shed and most are pretty vocal. Grooming is minor but I have little white hairs everywhere. 

The energy level and level of drive in papillons varies a lot. I have one papillon that is the calmest dog I've ever met. She is up for a hike but would lay around all day every day and just be thrilled. She never barks and is really easy. On the opposite end of the spectrum I have a papillon that is almost nonstop energy and is very demanding. She's also very vocal in that she yaps and she also excitement screams. She is not a good dog for a lot of people. The other five paps I've had are more along the typical lines of the ones I know. They are energetic and happy, eager to do anything but also okay with just chilling. 

Papillons tend to be higher drive than a lot of toy breeds, which is why papillons are one of the top agility breeds and you even see them up at the world team level with the border collies and the shelties. They're often called the border collie of the toy group for that reason. Papillons can be very busy dogs and can be quite annoying if you don't give them something to do. If you do give them something to do though, they often excel. I know you had a JRT and I will tell you my youngest pap is just as much energy as the JRTs I know and is much more energetic and faster than the JRT in my agility class. However, I haven't found them to be nearly as scrappy as a JRT. Paps are pretty soft, sensitive dogs.

Paps tend to be very into their owners to a level a lot of people find annoying. They are constant (and I mean constant) shadows, following me everywhere . They can be very needy and affectionate and if you gave them the choice, they would never leave your side. I have never had a breed that defined velcro better than they do. Wherever I go around the house, I have a pack of papillons following me.

My basic response to people interested in them is to be really clear with the breeder on what energy level you want. You can get anything from a couch potato to a dog that rarely stops. I know many other toy breed people that have told me they can't stand papillons because they're too hyper. My guys are VERY easy dogs but I do go well out of my way to keep them entertained. If you plan on exercising them like you would a big dog, you'll probably be fine. If you expect a calm little lap dog, they're the wrong choice. Also, don't think that because they get touted often as being the smartest small breed that they don't need training.

anyways, they are wonderful, wonderful dogs but not for everyone. I never mean to scare anyone away but I come across too many people that want one because they're small and cute and don't really research them. I've met quite a few people on this forum coming here with a new papillon that are completely shocked and unprepared for a dog that has so much energy and would really rather play ball all evening than curl up on the couch with you. If papillons are the right breed for you though, you'll be rewarded with a fun, intuitive, and intelligent companion.


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## NozOnyCalAur (Jun 6, 2012)

Very informative. Thank you for posting! I love to learn about new breeds.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

No problem, I love talking about papillons (well dogs in general but I have a soft spot for papillons). They're really really good dogs and so much personality and fun. I don't remember what I did without them! 

As far as health, the big concerns are luxating patellas and PRA. There's also more reports of epilepsy and then a newer disease called NAD (neuroaxonal dystrophy) which is a degenerative neurological disorder. It will show by a few weeks old and is thus far 100% fatal in the breed. It's very rare, though, but I would not take a puppy with any kind of abnormal gait.

Of course the papillon thread:http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/53565-papillons.html

And our family of goons: 


chazsignew by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr


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## littleorphanmolly (Jun 18, 2012)

Do they slow down as they get older? What is their average lifespan?


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## Catdancer (Apr 11, 2012)

Laurelin, COME BACK!! I want to hear more!! I love this thread!! And thank you to the OP for starting it. 

I have a papillon too. Our Dexter is black and white with lots of ticking or freckles (my hubands calls them his tattoos..lol). He is almost 5 months old and when you pair him with my 3 year old son, their nicknames are "Chaos and Mayhem" interchangably. Dexter is pretty high energy. But on the flip side, after we go outside and play ball for 20 to 30 minutes he is perfect happy to wrap himself around my neck or plop down in my lap and chew on a toy for an hour or two. He does need to run off some energy at least twice a day as we crate him while we are gone. So he gets quite a bit of ball playing, his favorite game in the world! lol 

Laurelin, how else do you keep your paps entertained? I'm curious. I've tried frozen yogart and peanut butter in Kongs, I bought some of the brain teaser chew toys and a slew of other toys. Do you have any other recommendations?

As to lifespan...12 to 16 years. 

And one of the reasons that I chose the Pap was that they tend to keep their happy "puppy-like" dispositions through adulthood. I'm sure they slow down, as we all do when we age, but if they are fed a healthy diet and vetted regularly, they should age very well.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

sorry, been busy at work and been had a doctor's appt yesterday after work.

Mine have slowed down some.... if by slow down you mean that they sleep when we're not doing something. Mia would still go all day if I let her, but will also sleep quite a bit now and not be as obnoxious. But she's still really easily excitable and still demanding at times. She also still chews if I leave her out of her kennel unsupervised. My oldest are eight and they're both still pretty energetic for 8 year old dogs. No one believes me when I tell them Summer is 8 because she's so hyper sometimes out in public.

I do training with mine. Mia is in agility class and Summer starts hers up next week. We play ball quite a bit most days. We also train silly tricks and go for walks. I take them to the pet store about once a week. They also play a lot with each other and wear each other out. Puzzle toys work with them, except for Mia because she figures them out in a few seconds flat. I've learned to multitask with the tennis ball and I can do just about anything and keep kicking the ball for Mia to chase.


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## osdbmom (Feb 15, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> I've had 7 papillons so far and will likely have many more in the future. They are GREAT dogs but like any breed are not for everyone. All dogs and papillons are individuals and mine vary a ton. If you're looking at an adult dog then it is best to talk to the foster people/previous owners and figure out if that dog in particular is what you want. If you're looking for a puppy, then find a good breeder who can point you in the right direction and match a puppy to you with an appropriate energy level.
> 
> The biggest things I can say about papillons is that they do shed and most are pretty vocal. Grooming is minor but I have little white hairs everywhere.
> 
> ...


OH, so THIS is where my Zoey gets the ADHD from!! LOl Zoey is a papillon/poodle cross, and Ive never seen another papillon in real life, and always wondered what traits (besides her plumey tail) she might share with a pap.
Camping a couple weeks ago, we met one! And it was so funny, bc she was teeeeny (6 lbs), but had the same brown head and "eye mask", same black and white streaked ears (and I never knew there could be a drop eared papillon, but this one was, and her ears were just like Zoey's- floppy, but they perk up this funny way that is different from most dogs with ears like that.) AND she had the exact same crooked brown spot over her rump. It was so funny to see so many Zoey traits in teeny form, lol Zoey is about 16 lbs. 
The other traits you mention are also things I see in Zoey....hyper, smart, and she is my shadow dog. She waits outside the bathroom door for me, the bedroom door when I get dressed, at the top of the stairs when Im downstairs doing laundry, at my feet when Im doing homework. I can walk her 5 miles and when we get back home she looks at me like she cant' figure out why we've already come back...we've only been walking for two hours! 

I think, if I were to add a third dog, ever, a pure bred papillon would be something for us to look at.


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## littleorphanmolly (Jun 18, 2012)

The pap I am looking at is a foster and I believe he is six ish. I want a house dog that is happy to sometimes be on a lap but also enjoys the hustle and bustle and our active lives. I like to walk and love a dog that will play fetch (frisbee would be cool too). I would love a velcrodog


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## Bau (May 5, 2013)

Papillons are very clever, bright, intense little dogs. 

They are also very small and delicate and, although energetic, fragile, with slender little leg bones and thin tendons. Playing fetch with a very soft ball is great. Any sort of rough-housing is not. They are very willing to leap, but a lot of energetic leaping for frisbees (and it would have to be the super-soft disc, not a frisbee per se) is not good for them. Even just jumping off the furniture repeatedly day after day can damage their joints.

They are small enough to escape from a yard through the little gap between a gate and a gatepost, so you have to have a really tight fence to fence them safely. If you lack a fenced yard, several brisk short walks per day are okay because, again, they are energetic but small. But don't worry, a mile won't wear them out --that would be very healthy. When you can't do those great mile-long walks, they are small enough to get a significant amount of exercise just running around the house or playing fetch in the living room, but exercising their clever little minds is another matter. If they don't have enough to do they can get neurotic -- as someone else pointed out, much like understimulated border collies -- and even a well-occupied pap is prone to barkiness in response to anything it sees or hears within its sensory zone. In a busy apartment building a pap may bark every time an occupant walks past your door, and every time the guy in the apartment above you clomps across the floor, and every time the girl with the early-morning job rides her bike past your window at 5 AM. If you work outside the home it's hard to train them out of such behavior because they will practice it constantly while you aren't there. 

As is typical for tiny dogs, they can be difficult to housetrain because they can't hold their pee very long. Even after housetraining you shouldn't plan to leave them at home alone all day unless they are paper trained or you can closely manage their drinking water, so that they get enough to drink yet aren't forced to urinate in the house. 

If you are sure you will love interacting closely with the dog every day, teaching tricks and playing, and if you can deal with the effects of their small size and relative delicacy, a papillon might be a great choice.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Bau said:


> Papillons are very clever, bright, intense little dogs.
> 
> They are also very small and delicate and, although energetic, fragile, with slender little leg bones and thin tendons. Playing fetch with a very soft ball is great. Any sort of rough-housing is not. They are very willing to leap, but a lot of energetic leaping for frisbees (and it would have to be the super-soft disc, not a frisbee per se) is not good for them. Even just jumping off the furniture repeatedly day after day can damage their joints.
> 
> ...



I'm betting Laurelin has something to say about how delicate paps are, and the fact that they can't hold it all day. Particularly given the number of top agility dogs that are paps and number I know who do just fine holding it all day. I wouldn't recommend them necessarily for a first time owner, but they are NOT frail little couch potatoes. They're called the BCs of the toy dogs, for a reason. Some care in deference to their size, yes, but not playing fetch with anything but a soft ball or allowing jumping off furniture -

Not necessary for the vast majority. Maybe some of the 2 and 3 lb dogs, but those aren't the majority.


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