# Cacausian ovcharka as a first dog...



## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Hello everyone, hope the day is going well for you all. 
I have been thinking of finally getting a dog. It has been my dream since I was young to get a cacausian ovcharka. I have done some research, but I still have some unanswered question (google/previous searches couldn't help)
OVER 100 VIEWS? HERE IS SOME EYE CANDY FOR THE LURKERS (GOOGLED/YANDEXED)


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

A CO is a very powerful, strong and serious dog. How carefully have you considered this breed in particular? What about the CO really interests you, or are there other, possibly more manageable, Shepherds that interest you? 

Never get a puppy until it is at least 8 weeks old. Always go through a rescue organization or a reputable breeder. Socialization begins at birth and ends with death, formal training can begin from day one with the handler. 

Where are you located?


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the answer. I am located in Cali. 
Response- Yeah, I have considered the type of breed that I want. I seen alot of them while I was a child (lived in Russia) & they seemed like great dogs & I always wanted one, it is also fine with all of my family . I am now in a dilemma whether to get the dog from Russia or just find a breeder here. 
Ran some numbers and a show type dog with all the vaccinations/documentations/flight should run me about $3000 if I get it from Russia. Not sure about the prices here because I haven't seen anyone with this breed around here, nor is there any good info online. Any info is welcome, thanks guys.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

I do not have any experience directly with the CO, but have admired them from a far. I don't believe anyone personally owns one on the forum, but hopefully someone will stop by and be able to give you more information. Here are some websites that you should look over for now. 

http://www.aacoo.net/
http://www.cocaclub.us/
http://www.kofoto.org/photopost/index.php
http://www.flockguard.org/cauctoc.htm


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

You may also enjoy this thread: http://www.dogforums.com/dog-pictures-forum/92927-dogs-pics-photographer-artist.html

It is one of my favorites.


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks +two, spent quite a few hrs in the photo section yesterday. Ive had 3 of those links bookmarked already. Hopefully someone can point me to a breeders , so I can compare the numbers and decide whether to import or not. Got about 90% confidence that I am going to get the dog in the upcoming few month at the moment.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

http://www.dogforums.com/members/brada1878.html

This guy owns COs and uses them for guarding purposes. He also posts pics of them (and his other dogs, including other guardians) here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brada1878/


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

And I would honestly not get a CO for a first dog, unless I could find knowledgeable CO owners and breeders and meet them AND their dogs in person and learn the ropes. They are not a dog for every one.


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks Crantastic, nice signature. Do you by any chance know if he is a breeder? Looks like he has quite a few different (good-looking) dogs in his album (not sure if they are all his). His Luyiti* is the type of a dog that I would walk any time of the day hah.


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

ThoseWordsAtBest - Not sure if I like them so much because of my childhood memories or because I have 2 Persians that looks like miniature COs. Speaking of professionals, if I was to buy from Russia, I would get advice given by and the dog picked by one of the best vets in Moscow. Seems that dogs are much like children, where the child is a pure reflection of the parents doings (spend alot of time at a day care). In other words, I think that I am ready (to take on a responsibility, and act like an alpha that I am  ). You know, I watch alot of dog whisperer, so I got the tricks down with out even owning a dog  jk.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Derevnya said:


> ThoseWordsAtBest - Not sure if I like them so much because of my childhood memories or because I have 2 Persians that looks like miniature COs. Speaking of professionals, if I was to buy from Russia, I would get advice given by and the dog picked by one of the best vets in Moscow. Seems that dogs are much like children, where the child is a pure reflection of the parents doings (spend alot of time at a day care). In other words, I think that I am ready (to take on a responsibility, and act like an alpha that I am  ). You know, I watch alot of dog whisperer, so I got the tricks down with out even owning a dog  jk.


I think COs are much more than that. It isn't all coming down to a persons handling because they are A LOT of dog. Is it possible you can find OC breeders/communities and learn from them?


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Oh, I see what you are saying. "Is it possible you can find OC breeders/communities and learn from them?" <-- That's sort of my goal. Been looking around locally, no luck yet... but I am sure that there got to be some around. Wonder if it would be too weird for me to go to a local dog park and see if there are any CO owners there? If I cant find anything locally, I most likely get one from Russia (and learn everything that I need there, as I will have a good vet with me). He is busy most of the time though, unless you come out there and get his drunk a bit (meaning he rarely responds to emails and said that he will simply set everything up if I do decide to come....).


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Where are you? You can just say state if you like (I live in the US so this is me assuming you do as well xD) and maybe some of us can find someone.


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Oh, thought I did... had a Diablo 3 live-stream running, and I got distracted at some point, I guess. I live in Cali (in the Easy Bay area, to be specific).


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Contact the CO club of America, better yet: http://www.cocaclub.us/


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks, I came across that page a few days ago myself, but it didn't seem recently updated. I will try to contact them tomorrow, and go from there. Hopefully contact info works, I don't see any recent info/updates on the website. 


Edit- 
Do you think something like http://www.puppypurebred.com/product_info.php/cPath/5_99/products_id/319 is worth contacting? cant find anything about them on AKC about the breeder, and their posting is over 3 years old, but they could possibly have had another litter or plan for one soon? not sure why they didn't delete their posting if the dog sold, and they didn't expect to have more. Also, I like how that website uses product to call pets.... wth lol.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

No, probably not. Generally sites like that aren't worth much/don't often attract great breeders.


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for all your help! Going to try and get in contact with COCA tomorrow. Hopefully they are alive, some of their links are broken on the website. Any other input is welcome.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

There is another member here with a CO and I just sent her a message to see if she will chime in.


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Wow, dog community is awesome so far, now I definitely need a dog (to meet people at the dog parks hah!). Can't do that with cats... try putting leashes on my little tigers, and you get bone deep wounds lol.

PICTURE LIMIT OF 13??? I HAD 30+ IN THE POST 

MY FAVS


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Derevnya said:


> ThoseWordsAtBest - Not sure if I like them so much because of my childhood memories or because I have 2 Persians that looks like miniature COs. Speaking of professionals, if I was to buy from Russia, I would get advice given by and the dog picked by one of the best vets in Moscow. Seems that dogs are much like children, where the child is a pure reflection of the parents doings (spend alot of time at a day care). In other words, I think that I am ready (to take on a responsibility, and act like an alpha that I am  ). You know, I watch alot of dog whisperer, so I got the tricks down with out even owning a dog  jk.


I don't have any personal experience with COs but from what I've read, they will protect their owner at all costs. Add to that their strength and size, do you think reading the dog.whisperer will prepare you for this dog? In Russia, they are guard dogs right? Unless you have hands on experience in.handling dogs, I would take the other posters' suggestions. Reading is great but actually applying the principles to a dig such as the CO is a different story. Again, I m no expert so you can take or leave my suggestion. I'm not suggesting you would be a bad dog owner, just for you to do more hands on research.


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for your suggestion/concern. I agree with you, before I settle/buy, I will need to hang around them and see what it takes. I am not too worried myself yet, you can go on rabbit/cat forums and people will say the same thing . Also, the dog is gaining popularity in Russia/ some parts of europe as a companion dog. You cant really judge by Russia though, most of Russian towns only have apartments (5+story buildings) not houses like in U.S, due to different terrain/disasters (no earthquakes, but extreme temps for the most parts, etc..)... people that live in houses do need guard dogs though, and ovcharkas are the dogs of choice for the most part.... but if more people had houses there, i bet they would overall be more popular there as simply a companion. Also people suggesting other dogs, I see what you all mean, but I am not sure that you realize I would need to commit myself for 10+ years for a different dog, before I get a dog of my choice? I would really rather learn the ropes from the breeder then spend 10+ years training for something (which i most likely already posses). not like i can adopt a dog on its death bed.. emotional ties breaking almost instantly would be devastating.

Edit- btw dog whisperer is a show on T.V. It was a joke that i was making.


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## Shandwill (Jul 23, 2010)

I own a female CO that is nearing two years of age. In my opinion, they are not a breed for a first-time owner. I would strongly encourage you to seek out as much information and FIRST-HAND experience as possible before making the decision to get a CO, so I'm glad to see you asking questions here on the forum and seeking out reputable breeders. I adopted my dog, however, there seem to be one or two reputable breeders here in the US. (Brad, the other member here who has several COs would likely have more info about them.) I understand that they are gaining popularity, particularly in other countries, but just because more people are wanting COs doesn't mean that they are prepared to live with one. Thankfully, my girl was EXTREMELY well socialized before I adopted her, but even so, she is not a dog for the faint of heart. Caring for her and being a responsible CO owner requires exponentially more work and commitment than any other breed I've had. All that being said, I would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have!


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Crantastic said:


> http://www.dogforums.com/members/brada1878.html
> 
> This guy owns COs and uses them for guarding purposes. He also posts pics of them (and his other dogs, including other guardians) here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brada1878/


First person I thought of. I miss his posts and pictures...


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

No offence to the OP but,
I seriously question the ethics of _any _breeder
who would sell a C.O. to an inexperienced owner!


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## hast (Aug 17, 2011)

prntmkr said:


> No offence to the OP but,
> I seriously question the ethics of _any _breeder
> who would sell a C.O. to an inexperienced owner!


Ditto to this^^^

Listen to Shandwill, it's not an easy dog to handle. It's definitely not a dog to take to the dog park to make friends ... I don't own one, but met a few in Sweden last summer. It's very strong willed and powerful dogs.


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## IWlover (Sep 4, 2009)

prntmkr said:


> No offence to the OP but,
> I seriously question the ethics of _any _breeder
> who would sell a C.O. to an inexperienced owner!


Very good point! A first-time owner should get a dog without special needs. In inexperienced hands, such a breed as an OC could be quite a liability.


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Noo, why must you all come out and say this. I don't really get why they are such terrible dog to have as first. Wonder if someone could explain.... I think, just because I haven't had a dog before, people maybe think that I will try to carry this one in a purse or let it run wild and eat other dogs. or even be afraid of it or something...I took on forests with bears and wolfs when I was just 10 years old (best berries are free forest berries, if you haven't picked them before and have a forest near by, I strongly suggest this, mushrooms as well), do not think a fluffy mini bear can manipulate or be too much responsibility for me.. *Hopefully someone can explain just why they are too much, rather than say they simply are.* Maybe this is why no one gets one in the U.S, because they listen to forums too much, heh jk.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

I think the suggestion that a CO is a tough first dog is not at all incorrect. And really, if I were a breeder you would have to really do a lot of work to convince me you could handle the dog. 

How long have you lived in the US and how familiar are you with animal control laws? I ask because you are looking at getting a potentially human aggressive dog and you need to be aware of the liability. 

Do you have any experience handling and managing human aggressive dogs? Do you own a house, farm, apartment? Do you have a lot of friends/visitors? 

When you say that you would need to train for 10 years to get a different breed, what do you mean?


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

+two,I have two houses, one has a huge backyard. By the way, I think money would convince you first, they are expensive dogs(think if someone looks ok and can afford one, you would be a bit crazy not to). I lived for over 10 years, Cali does have sort of terrible pet laws (my first choice was a bobcat... hah). About the 10 years, well if I do get a different breed (which im sure people will say is also not a good breed to have first.. they always do..), I would live till that dog dies before I get a dog of my choice. I think my problem is that I do not want simply a dog...nor will I settle for any dog, other then a CO at this point. Why? Because I really do not think that "special needs" are something that I cant handle after a while.AS I SAID THOUGH, BEFORE I BUY/ADOPT I WILL SPEND ALOT OF TIME AT THE BREEDER TO SEE WHAT IT TAKES ETC... I COULD ALWAYS CHANGE MY MIND MYSELF, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE WHAT IT TAKES FIRST HAND....


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Brad, the CO-owning poster who I linked earlier, has posted several stories about his COs. He's also offered advice for potential owners, like this:



> I think the short answer to your over-all questions is that you need to be very select in the lines you choose if you go with a CO. Some lines are sharper than others; some are sharper toward dogs, some toward people, some toward everything. A proper CO should not be overly aggressive and should be temperamentally "balanced" - but the breed is a guardian and does represent a rather high degree of liability. Our CO do GREAT with out other dogs, but I know some of the older lines can be VERY dog aggressive.


and



> Even with a huge amount of socialization, your CO may not accept strangers into your home. This means you will need a very secure place to "lock them down". Really, this, IMHO, is a good rule to have with any guardian breed.


There's also this story:



> The area we live and hike has a lot of predators and roaming (usually aggressive) dogs. Because of this we tend to hike with a guardian. Well once we went hiking and took Masha, our Caucasian Ovcharka, with us for protection. Well, went on this really nice hike and never had any issues, then on the way to the car, out of no where this tiny little miniature snouser came jetting across the parking lot coming strait for us! This thing had to be like 12lb, meanwhile our Ovcharka is 110lb. I see this dog running for us and Masha jumps into action - she is pissed and ready to kill this little dog. Obviously I don't want that, so I run out in front to try and catch the little dog and it bites me! Meanwhile Masha is dragging my wife across the parking lot (on her ass) to get at this little dog... Then the little dog runs around me and jumps right for Masha's face! So I jump and tackled it! This is a little 10lb dog and we are in panic over it getting to our guardian!


Another here:



> We had a very good friend visiting last week, he had never met a CO but he knew about Luytiy. Luytiy is intolerant of strangers, so we had him in a kennel while our friend visited. He's is very good with dogs, but Luytiy can make the most seasoned dog enthusiast uncomfortable.
> 
> Well, one night we went to dinner and the topic of Luytiy came up and he admitted that he would like to see "The Luytiy Show" (what I call it when I let Luytiy out of the kennel to do his guarding "display" for guests - which is rather extreme).
> 
> ...


He's also said (in that first thread I linked):



> As for the CO training stuff...
> 
> They are just dogs, they learn through the same conventions as all the other dog breeds do. Sure, CO can be very defensive, are large, and can be serious, but at the end of the day they are a dog and they love cookies just as much as the next dog.
> 
> I don't subscribe to the dominance/alpha stuff for our CO, or any of our other dogs. I never felt the need to hold Masha up and shake her as a pup, she was a gem. Now as an adult, she is super loving and caring - she protect our yard like nothing you have seen before - but a simple "Masha, that's enough" will get her to stop her guarding - and we got there without any silly dominance training methods. Just cookies and learning.


Bottom line is: they're large and powerful dogs, some can be dog-aggressive or human-aggressive (and even if not, the breed in general is highly defensive), and they need a good, experienced trainer (Dog Whisperer stuff is not a good idea). I wouldn't recommend them for a first-timer unless that person had spent a lot of time around the breed and knew as much about them as possible.

(Read all of the linked threads! They're interesting and contain good info and stories.)


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## flipgirl (Oct 5, 2007)

Derevnya said:


> Noo, why must you all come out and say this. I don't really get why they are such terrible dog to have as first. Wonder if someone could explain.... I think, just because I haven't had a dog before, people maybe think that I will try to carry this one in a purse or let it run wild and eat other dogs. or even be afraid of it or something...I took on forests with bears and wolfs when I was just 10 years old (best berries are free forest berries, if you haven't picked them before and have a forest near by, I strongly suggest this, mushrooms as well), do not think a fluffy mini bear can manipulate or be too much responsibility for me.. *Hopefully someone can explain just why they are too much, rather than say they simply are.* Maybe this is why no one gets one in the U.S, because they listen to forums too much, heh jk.


I think the concern is that a CO will protect its owner and property AT ALL COSTS. This means that if you encourage encounter other people or dogs the CO may take them as a threat to you or his property and fiercely protect what he considers as his. And as strong, large and powerful as a CO is, would you realistically be able to control this dog and be able to call him off if need be? The CO isn't like a lab who are are strong too but they are more easily trained and socialized. COs are raised as guard dogs and will guard its owners and property using its power and size. I can't emphasize that enough. They are beautiful dogs and with the proper training and socialization, he can be a good companion. I think what the others are saying is that an inexperienced dog owner would find herself very overwhelmed and possibly under the control of a huge and powerful dog. I am a first dog owner and while she is not a guard dog, I have made mistakes in her training even though I read every book, and took her to obedience school. I will definitely do a better job with my next.one! However, my dog is small and really cannot do much damage (though she think she can). A CO is huge and can do a lot of damage so I would seriously consider your choice. I know that is not what you want to hear but really think about what would happen if you came across a situation in which your CO was protecting you....could you really call him off? Also consider the time you will have to spend training and socializing the CO...you have to start early. Plus you have to adopt a particular training style and be consistent, firm, but not harsh. That's with every dog but especially important with the CO who is headstrong and will do whatever it takes to protect its owner and property. Unless you can strike a deal with a good breeder who will guide you as your puppy grows, I think a CO would be more suitable to an experienced dog owner. Again, I am not saying you would.be a bad dog owner; you have already done.some research which is a great start. However, if you still want a CO, I would strongly suggest doing what the others are telling you...get firsthand experience and talk to good breeders, not ones who just want to sell a puppy. Good luck!


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## Derevnya (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the valuable info everyone. I cant believe people spent their valuable time writing thoughtful responses (especially the ones with quotes!! going to read those threads, thanks!). Sort of wish some people let me decide for myself instead of making it sound like I would be fully incompetent with a CO without any background info (not like ill just bring the money, take the dog and torture it myself without knowledge....sure almost everyone does do that though). I am pretty responsible, and I would make sure to hang out with the breeder for at-least a weekend before my final decision. For now, I will keep on looking/deciding on what to do (long process, no rush). Going to talk to my family some more about this, etc etc... Thanks again everyone, I will be around on this forum, if anyone decides to response. Have a nice day.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

Derevnya said:


> Sort of wish some people let me decide for myself instead of making it sound like I would be fully incompetent with a CO without any background info (not like ill just bring the money, take the dog and torture it myself without knowledge....sure almost everyone does do that though).


True -- I'd bet that most people who go out and get a dog really don't know a lot about them, but manage to muddle through. Most dogs aren't COs, though. COs are serious dogs with an inborn defensiveness that you're not going to find in a lot of breeds, even ones people think of as "tough." If you want a dog park dog, one of these may not be for you. A breeder will certainly be able to tell you a lot more, though.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I would try PMing Foxfire on here too. I believe she has CAOs and not COs but has a lot of experience with large guardian type dogs. And I think Spicy has a CO too? Maybe?


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah, that's right, I think Spicy definitely has a couple COs.


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