# 13-week-old puppy ... regressing?



## LollyWollyDoodle (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello:

This is my first post on the board; happy to join! We got our new puppy just a couple of weeks ago. I've had dogs throughout my adult life, but this is the first time in @ 14 years that I've had a puppy so I've forgotten some things so would really appreciate some help / insight. I started crate-training Lolly (now 13 weeks old) from the day we brought her home. At first, she didn't know what to do when I took her outside and that was a bit frustrating, but with positive reinforcement, she picked up on what she is supposed to do within a few days. Now, when she goes outside, she will do her business almost on command. I reward her with a little treat each time.

The problem now is: how do I train her NOT to do her business inside? She knows to do it outside, but has no clue, it seems like, that she shouldn't be doing so inside. She was fine the first few days, but now, she seems more comfortable with us and will not hesitate to squat right in front of us. We do what we are supposed to do - make a sound to catch her attention - but she doesn't stop and just keeps going. I will take her outside right away and she will finish up, and I will reward her and praise her, but how do you teach the dog to NOT want to do it indoors?

Also, she is starting to whine more when she is in her crate. The first few days, she would whine a bit and then settle down. Now, she will whine and bark for much longer periods of time. She will eventually settle down, but instead of whining for just one or two minutes, now it's more like @ 10 minutes. Are we doing something wrong? I do entice her to go into her crate with a treat and she goes in fine with very little prodding from us. She just does not like to stay there if we are all out and about and she can see us!

One more question, if you don't mind - I am thinking of starting clicker training with her to teach her some basic commands like SIT and DOWN. She is so cute, but jumps on everyone and that is growing old already. She is obviously quite smart b/c she picked up on potty training and going outside right away, just with treats and positive reinforcement, so maybe I don't need the clicker for these basic commands, just more treats and praise? I plan to work with her for @ five minutes at a time, twice a day.

Thanks in advance for all your help and insight. I'm sure you'll hear more from me soon!


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

the increase in whining is probably whats called an extincion burst. when a behaviour is not rewarded aka whining to get out (you dont let her out when she is whining ever right?) if so then often behaviors tend to increase dramaticaly before they cease so she may just be about to give up whining in the crate permanently.

if you are letting her out when she is whining she is learning whining works to get out so it will definitely increase. you need to make sure you never ever let her out when whining or barking only when calm and silent.


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

LollyWollyDoodle said:


> Hello:
> 
> 
> The problem now is: how do I train her NOT to do her business inside?


at 13 weeks she doesn't have the bladder control that you seem to be expecting. she wont actually gain full bladder control until about 6-7 months. so keep your chin up they are accidents. read some of the stickies on housetraining. so you can get a fuller understanding of what to expect as far as pottying outside goes. here below is a link to thread witha bunch of potty thread do some quick reading through them
http://www.dogforums.com/first-time-dog-owner/88458-enough-potty-threads.html


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## LollyWollyDoodle (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks, Sharpei! We definitely do not let her out of her crate when she is whining. I always try to wait for her to be calm / quiet for at least 2-3 minutes before letting her out. Should I wait for a longer period of time (five minutes or more) before I let her out? We used to tell her NO when she would whine incessantly, but I've found that just drags it out longer. Instead, we just now ignore her (hard to do!) and carry on with our own conversations and whatever we are doing, and she seems to give up more quickly and settle down more easily. Seems that if she hears our voices - instead of us just sitting there quietly, waiting for her to be quiet - she's more comfortable and will calm right down.

As for the potty-training ... I figured bladder control was the main culprit, haha. Just thought that, by now, we'd see more signs from her, hinting at her need to go. Yes, she does circle and sniff, but I used to whisk her outside at the first sign of circling and sniffing, and she would stand in the yard, wagging her tail and looking at me expectantly. But now that she knows what she is supposed to do outside, I guess I should keep up with this? However, one question - would my taking her out every time she circles and sniffs, which is about 30 minutes or so, adversely impact her learning bladder control? Or is she just too young to even learn that at this point, like a human baby, so I should just take her out every time she shows those signs, regardless of how soon it has been since she last was outside?

Thanks again!


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

no waiting longer is pointless only 20 seconds to a minute of silence is enough. as long as the silence isnt triggered by your moving towards the crate latch. this part can be tricky. often when crate training for whinier puppies I will advise to reach for and play with the latches but not release the pup so they learn that not everytime you go for the latch means out. that way your gesture wont cease the whining. because if reaching for the latch or approaching the crate causes the silence she is learning that whining works.

but it does sound like an extinction burst is underway and she may give up whining in the crate almost completely.


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

LollyWollyDoodle said:


> As for the potty-training ... I figured bladder control was the main culprit, haha. Just thought that, by now, we'd see more signs from her, hinting at her need to go. Yes, she does circle and sniff, but I used to whisk her outside at the first sign of circling and sniffing, and she would stand in the yard, wagging her tail and looking at me expectantly. But now that she knows what she is supposed to do outside, I guess I should keep up with this? However, one question - would my taking her out every time she circles and sniffs, which is about 30 minutes or so, adversely impact her learning bladder control? Or is she just too young to even learn that at this point, like a human baby, so I should just take her out every time she shows those signs, regardless of how soon it has been since she last was outside?
> 
> Thanks again!


No you should absolutely continue to bring her outside absolutely everytime you think she may need to go.trying to force a blader controll on a dog incapable of holding it just sets up failure. at 13 weeks she sould be take outside as often as humanly possible think every 20-30 minutes or so. at this point it pretty much hits their bladder then falls out with almost no warning. the dog is young and cant interpret the sensation to mean it has to go untill its already coming out. she may already know going outside is a good thing but she absolutely lack any chance of holding it.


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## LollyWollyDoodle (Mar 25, 2013)

Extinction burst - I like that! Hopefully, that is what is happening. Also, thanks for the link to the many helpful potty-training threads! I have started reading them already. Very grateful for all your help this morning!


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

and your welcome, I love dog training (which is good because its what I do for a profession) and helping people out in frustrating situations like potty training is rewarding for me. every time some one gains some insight or even just a notch more patience with a situation I get a warm feeling knowing that I just helped make their relationship with their dog more loving and understanding. like ti says in my signature through patience diligence and love all things can be achieved.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

sharpei said:


> and your welcome, I love dog training (which is good because its what I do for a profession) and helping people out in frustrating situations like potty training is rewarding for me. every time some one gains some insight or even just a notch more patience with a situation I get a warm feeling knowing that I just helped make their relationship with their dog more loving and understanding. like ti says in my signature through patience diligence and love all things can be achieved.


Not to hijack this thread ... but you may just be the person I am looking for.  I will start another thread on "Eddee's Issues" ........ I'd love some suggestions.


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

Abbylynn said:


> Not to hijack this thread ... but you may just be the person I am looking for.  I will start another thread on "Eddee's Issues" ........ I'd love some suggestions.


I can definitely look once you post it. I have to go check on my why my washer is leaking so I may not get a chance to reply in the next few minutes but I will look within the next hour or two. and hopefully I can offer some suggestions. and there are definitely many other experienced people here that will have some great suggestions for you as well. (honestly some of the people here that aren't "professional" trainers are better at training that a lot of the "professional" trainers I have seen around.)


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## pawsplus (May 4, 2012)

LollyWollyDoodle said:


> As for the potty-training ... I figured bladder control was the main culprit, haha. Just thought that, by now, we'd see more signs from her, hinting at her need to go. Yes, she does circle and sniff, but I used to whisk her outside at the first sign of circling and sniffing, and she would stand in the yard, wagging her tail and looking at me expectantly. But now that she knows what she is supposed to do outside, I guess I should keep up with this? However, one question - would my taking her out every time she circles and sniffs, which is about 30 minutes or so, adversely impact her learning bladder control? Or is she just too young to even learn that at this point, like a human baby, so I should just take her out every time she shows those signs, regardless of how soon it has been since she last was outside?


First, IMO a dog should never have to "ask" to go outside--you should anticipate her needs better than that. We've put dogs into a situation none of us would like to be in--a situation in which we have no control over when/where we can eliminate! So it's OUR job (IMO) to make sure that the dog is never so desperate as to have to beg to go outside. 

With an adult, trained dog, I make sure to get them out at least every 2-3 hours if I'm home with them. A 13 week puppy? She SHOULD be going outside every 45 minutes or so when uncrated, and if you wait for her to "ask" you'll be sorry, b/c she realizes she has to go about 30 seconds before she REALLYREALLYREALLY has to go! Take her out regularly -- after eating, after sleeping, after playing, or every 45 min. if none of the above have happened. If you take her out and she does NOT go, you'll either have to watch her esp. closely or crate her for a while and try again.

When she's in the house with you, she should NEVER be in a different room than you are unless she's crated. Tether her to you w/a leash, or to a piece of furniture in the room you are in, use babygates, close doors. Keep an eye on her and be sure to take her out OFTEN. You can't do it too often--more often will only HELP your cause--it can't hurt it!


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## LollyWollyDoodle (Mar 25, 2013)

Yes, we are doing all of that. I have her on a short leash (six feet) with me if I am walking around the house, and only from family room to kitchen, at that. Otherwise, I am carrying her in my arms or actively playing with her on the floor. Sometimes, she may sit with me on the couch. Otherwise, she is in her crate. Yesterday evening, I took her out for @ 15 minutes, and she peed @ five times and did her No. 2. We came back inside and played for @ 15 minutes, and then I was ready to take her out again, and before I could get the leash on her, she peed on the rug. No biggie, but now I get that she may not have that signal from her own body yet that she has to go so, obviously, she can't "tell" me she needs to go or hold it for another five seconds, haha.

It's nice to hear that you can't do it too often because I was thinking that I was training her to think she would be able to go every 45 minutes or so, which is the opposite of what we want to achieve. But if that is actually the way to teach her that inside is not the right place to do her business, then I am all for it and will take her out as often as I need to!

BTW, if the rule of thumb is to take her outside after she's been in her crate ... does this mean that if I put her in her crate for only five minutes while I run to do something else, then I should take her outside again, even though she was only in the crate for a few minutes? Or should I just have her stay in her crate a bit longer, especially if she had just been outside recently?


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## LollyWollyDoodle (Mar 25, 2013)

Also, one question re: bell training to teach them to go outside ... I take Lolly out via the front door, but that is quite a ways away from the family room / kitchen, where we usually hang out. Can I hang the bell somewhere in the family room, and then ring that each time before I take her outside, or does the bell have to be on the door itself? If it's placed in the family room, we would ring the bell, and then we would walk to the front door, where I would put on her leash. So it could be a good 10-15 seconds after we ring the bell before we get outside. Is that too lengthy of a time for her to make the association? She does seem to understand the word "outside" now, so perhaps I can ring the bell and say "Outside" at the same time?


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

LollyWollyDoodle said:


> BTW, if the rule of thumb is to take her outside after she's been in her crate ... does this mean that if I put her in her crate for only five minutes while I run to do something else, then I should take her outside again, even though she was only in the crate for a few minutes? Or should I just have her stay in her crate a bit longer, especially if she had just been outside recently?


 I would take her out after even 5 minutes of crating because when your dog relaxes in her crate sometimes things "settle" and she may be prone to going after getting out so for the best chance of success I would go out after every crating. as mentioned you really cant take her out too often. every opportunity for success is a good thing. some dogs tend to go after resting and some after walking (to help things move along) so there is no definite but I myself would just to increase the chances of good potties.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Oh man, when my pup was that young, we went out every.20.minutes. It was... tedious, and we still had occasional accidents, like if we got distracted for a moment, or lost track of time (had to set a timer anytime anyone was at the house, because time would get away from us easier). He was housebroken around 5 months old though, and now is 15 months and doesn't have accidents in our home, in other people's homes, at play groups, in pet stores, etc... meaning he's generalized "don't pee in the house" to "don't pee inside ANYWHERE." 

Your house set up sounds similar to ours! Our "puppy room" was the family room, which does have a back door, which leads to the deck, so you'd still have to go down a flight of stairs to get into the yard, and we got Hamilton in February and we live in upstate, NY, so that was a no-go. The front door became the potty door, which was through the kitchen and living room. We had a gate blocking access to the kitchen, and we hung his bell on the gate. He learned to ring it at the gate to go outside. We also said, over and over, when we took him out "Do you want to go out?" so eventually if we asked, and he jumped up and looked attentive, it meant YES. If he ignored us, then he didn't need to. It still works now, regardless of where we are. Now we have a bell on the front and back door for him, which he'll ring if he wants to go out, though I take him out every few hours anyway so he doesn't ring it often.


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## sharpei (Mar 15, 2013)

LollyWollyDoodle said:


> Also, one question re: bell training to teach them to go outside ... I take Lolly out via the front door, but that is quite a ways away from the family room / kitchen, where we usually hang out. Can I hang the bell somewhere in the family room, and then ring that each time before I take her outside, or does the bell have to be on the door itself? If it's placed in the family room, we would ring the bell, and then we would walk to the front door, where I would put on her leash. So it could be a good 10-15 seconds after we ring the bell before we get outside. Is that too lengthy of a time for her to make the association? She does seem to understand the word "outside" now, so perhaps I can ring the bell and say "Outside" at the same time?


get one of the wireless doorbells and train her to hit the button for out at the door and put the chime in the living area that way she can more easily ascociate the button with the door. because it is right there. as long as she can hear the chime at the front door to know the button worked it doesn't have to be an actual bell. A person I know did this so when he was upstairs in his office he could respond to the dogs out request it worked well for him I don't see why it wouldn't work for you.


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## LollyWollyDoodle (Mar 25, 2013)

Hambonez said:


> Your house set up sounds similar to ours! Our "puppy room" was the family room, which does have a back door, which leads to the deck, so you'd still have to go down a flight of stairs to get into the yard, and we got Hamilton in February and we live in upstate, NY, so that was a no-go. The front door became the potty door, which was through the kitchen and living room. We had a gate blocking access to the kitchen, and we hung his bell on the gate. He learned to ring it at the gate to go outside. We also said, over and over, when we took him out "Do you want to go out?" so eventually if we asked, and he jumped up and looked attentive, it meant YES. If he ignored us, then he didn't need to. It still works now, regardless of where we are. Now we have a bell on the front and back door for him, which he'll ring if he wants to go out, though I take him out every few hours anyway so he doesn't ring it often.


Yes, that sounds like our house too! We have a deck leading off the kitchen / sunroom, but that is down some steps and across a patio before we get to the yard. Front door is from family room through the front foyer, past living and dining rooms, so it's a straight shot, but about 50 feet away. I am thinking of tying a bell to something in the family room and then just ringing and saying "outside" before we head towards the front door. I've been trying to take her out via the garage if we are going out to play or for any other reason besides going potty so hopefully, she has already come to associate the front door with potty breaks.

I guess I will also have to train my two-year-old not to ring the bell whenever she feels like it, or else the dog will be more confused than ever!


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