# Puppy choosing conundrum



## madhatter (Jan 13, 2012)

OK, this one has me scratching my head a little. Just how is choosing a puppy supposed to work?

Watching Cesar Millan in his raising a puppy episode, he says to find a reputable breeder, and for his show picked a medium level energy pup. I've read other books telling what kind of temperament to look for, and more specifically, what to avoid.

My question is, how are you supposed to do this? Any really sought after breeders seem to have big waiting lists, and the ones who have pups available are usually the last couple of pups or so from a litter where the others are already spoken for. So it seems like everybody is just choosing by some combination of size, colour, sex. I can't imagine you being able to really tell much temperament-wise from a 2 week old puppy, but it seems like litters are all spoken for and choices are made by this point.

Is this just a hazard of picking a puppy or am I missing something?


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## Geogirl (Jan 10, 2012)

So I think the obvious answer is go to a rescue/shelter and adopt one of the many MILLIONS of animals who will otherwise be put down and you won't have this conundrum. You will get to see lots of different pups, from lots of breeds, different ages, energy levels and play with them all before you decide. You won't be expected to reserve one off a two week old photo on a website, you will actually get to interact with them. But I know some people just don't want rescue animals, so I guess you'd have to just make a guess then.


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## madhatter (Jan 13, 2012)

I looked at that option. My last dog was from the SPCA, but the past several weeks there have only been large breeds at the shelter, and we also need a non-shedding dog because of allergies in the family. I was just wondering if this is what other people experience with breeders, or maybe the ones I have been in contact with just do things differently?


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

In my experience, the hazards of puppy picking have been greatly exagerated.

Last two pups were picked by my daughter, when she was 16 and 20. I don't know what her criteria was. The look in their eyes or something.
The one before that was a gift. 
Before that, based on color.

None were from so-called "sought after" breeders. All of them became the most magnificent dogs you can imagine. (one is still a puppy, I'm projecting his outcome)

In fact I've never had a bad dog. Except for the stray we took in, but all the dogs I've ever raised from a pup have been excellent.


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## Loki Love (May 23, 2010)

These long waiting lists are normal (or can be) if it's a reputable breeder. When I will start my search for my next Dane puppy, I will start a good year in advance - talking with breeders, getting to know their lines, etc. It may take ANOTHER year after that before I get my puppy. It's worth the wait for me.

Like Geogirl said, if you can't wait then go the rescue/shelter route. But whatever you do, don't support bad breeders and line their pockets with more money.

And just an FYI - there is no such thing as a non-shedding dog (some shed less, sure - but never? No). Any kind of allergies can flare regardless of the dog. That's one of the reasons so many dogs are dumped - allergies :/


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## LoveCWCs (Oct 21, 2011)

psssh! don't let people talk you out of going to a reputable breeder. ;-) 

Trust me, excellent breeders are worth any time and effort you put in. 

My puppy came from two health tested parents, I know her lineage back and forth, she was picked for me by a way more experienced person specifically because she would be a good fit for me, and you know what? 

It worked out wonderfully. 

Now, I did have to wait six months for Opal and she wasn't cheap! Plus, I was "fast tracked" because of the type of home I offered. 

the breeder is now my mentor and her knowledge is invaluable. My puppy came with a two year health guarentee, although I haven't had to cash that in because she's as healthy as a horse. 

My pup is crazy intelligent, biddable, and drivey. She's exactly what I wanted and exactly what I got. 

Regardless of what everyone else may tell you, there's no shame in getting exactly what you want.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

When you choose which breeder you will use, tell them the type of pup you want. Place a deposit, and you should not have any trouble when the time comes for the dogs.

My last litter, one buyer wanted the two most rowdy, most fearless. One handler wanted a female, for narcotics and patrol. There were two females in this litter, one was bossy, one more reserved. . At six to eight weeks this is easy to see. At two weeks, not so much. By ten weeks, the litter is pretty well established their ranks, and you can really see the more aggressive, bossy, fearless pups. In a pet dog, I would only worry about which one stands out personality wise that you like. Stay away from any overly shy or fearful puppies.


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## Roloni (Aug 5, 2011)

Finding a Wife or Husband.. can be just as confusing..

You have to make sure your future spouses parents are reputable breeders..
Check their medical and dental records ..Look very closely at your future spouses parents.
He or she will end up looking like them one day.
Or..
Sometimes you just gotta trust your instincts and get a puppy you fall in love with.

Unless youre looking for a Trophy Wife..or a Show Dog.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't think you understand quite how breeder waiting lists work. A lot of the time a waiting list will look long, but with good breeders, the waiting list is not really first-come, first-served. If I'm at the top of a papillon breeder's waiting list and I've specified I want a mellow male pup, but she has a litter of energetic female puppies, then I'm not going to get one of those! My name will remain at the top of the list for when the next litter comes along, and the next person on the list who requested an energetic female pup will be contacted. If that person also chooses to wait for the next litter, then someone else gets a shot. So you can actually move up a waiting list much faster than you'd think.

Also, I don't know of any good breeders who let someone choose their specific pup at two weeks. That is too young for their personality to show! By eight weeks, though, the breeder will have a very good idea of what each pup is like and can then match them to potential buyers. Casper's breeder chose him for me (over his almost-identical brother) because she thought he'd be the better fit. She was right; he is pretty much exactly what I expected.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

Look for a breeder that does temperament testing at seven weeks and then selects the pups for the homes. Or at the least, does the temperament testing and then goes over the results with the new owners.

Unless you are going to spend a few days living in the pen with the pups, the breeder is more likely to know what they're really like, who does what, and then temperament testing can sort out details that nobody might expect. With Bender, she was pick temperament for sure, but conformation wasn't as sure until the grandbreeder (bred the mom) came over and said she was small but would get over that. To this day her breeder says she's one of the best dogs she's ever produced. With Storee there were two monsters in the litter, but when it came time to test, Storee was more forgiving and more food motivated, the other pup was a bit less into food and more 'up yours' in attitude, so that helped decide. 

This might help:

http://www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

If you aren't willing to wait more than a few weeks for the right dog, may e you should reconsider getting a dog at all.


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

Amaryllis said:


> If you aren't willing to wait more than a few weeks for the right dog, may e you should reconsider getting a dog at all.


 This times 10.
And trust me, waiting for the right puppy is definitely worth it.

Also, I'm not sure it's been said exactly but a reputable breeder should be picking the puppy for you. They live with the dogs and know them better than anybody ever could. If you tell your breeder exactly what you want in a dog they should be able to match you with the perfect puppy. My boy's breeder has only let somebody hand pick their puppy once or twice and they were only allowed to do that because they had been in the breed and around the dogs for YEARS, still, they picked with her help.


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## madhatter (Jan 13, 2012)

I have no problems waiting at all. I guess I just haven't come across breeders who do this, so I wondered how you were supposed to make a choice like that. It's kind of crazy now that I think back - no one has ever offered this or suggested it in any of the new dogs I've been involved in getting. Mostly as a kid, but even friends that have gotten dogs from good breeders, etc. Hmm.

Anyway, thanks for the input everyone.


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## Canaqua (Sep 27, 2011)

We get our dogs, puppies, cats, horses...from rescues. Meets everyone's needs . 

BTW, my understanding is that "hypo-allergenic" dogs are mostly a marketing gimic...someone seriously allergic to dogs will have allergies to saliva, not just to "fur" versus "hair". If you do have pet allergies in your household, I'd borrow or foster a dog of a breed you are interested in first. That's what my neighbors did, they have an asthmatic/allergic son who tests positive for dog allergies, so they dog sat another neighbor's, purportedly hypo-allergenic, "Pomapoo" before getting one, to make SURE the boy wouldn't react. IMO, the boy is just allergic to cats, not dogs at all, despite the positive test (I test for dog allergies, yet I'm not allergic to them, two sleep in my bed, no problems . Boy plays at our house and the only time he has an attack is when he goes in the closet that my cat sometimes hides in...close quarters with cat hair = reaction. Playing with my two furry dogs = no reaction.


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## 03firefly (Jan 14, 2012)

On hypo-allergenic dogs, I have a friend who breaks out in hives when a dog licks her, but is perfectly fine around poodles. Her family actually breeds poodles. My cousin also has allergic reactions to dogs that shed, but is fine around poodles and Portuguese water dogs and has no trouble with saliva. As Canaqua said, you can always 'test' a dog to see how the person reacts to that animal.

Also, as for a reputable breeder, just keep searching. I have found a few reputable breeders that aren't advertised as much and usually just adopt out to local people. These breeders might only breed once in a while, but do all of the necessary testing needed and take wonderful care of their dogs. I'm not talking about the people that just adopt two random pure-breds from anywhere and breed them, but people who really care about the breed and never let their dogs go to just anyone. They have all been very connected with more advertised breeders. The one we got our dachshund from had actually stopped breeding a long time ago, but was asked to take care of a pregnant dog and given the responsibility of selling the puppies by a very well known and reputable breeder. So, technically our dachshund is from a reputable breeder, but we got him through a second-party. Now, in this case, the reason the person got the dog and puppies was because of personal issues with the actual breeder that was going to keep her from being able to properly care of the pregnant dog as well as her other dogs, but the person we got our dog from said that this does happen every now and then.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

what does hypo-allergenic mean, anyway?

Doesn't just mean that it aggravates allergies less than average? Or only slightly allergenic? Does anybody really expect it to mean the same as "non-allergenic?"

The westie doesn't irritate my wife's or daughters dander sensitivities. The ridgeback similarly is lower in dander than many other breeds. By definition that makes them both hypo-allergenic.

But as I understand it, it was a marketing term coined in 1950's by the cosmetics industry.


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## 03firefly (Jan 14, 2012)

Yes, technically hypo means less than normal. It does not mean non-allergenic. Many dogs can be considered hypo-allergenic. Common hypo-allergenic breeds are curly haired dogs and properly cared for wire-haired dogs. However, I'm sure there are other breeds that can be considered hypo-allergenic depending on the type of allergies and severity of allergies the person has.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

FWIW, I read somewhere that the only reason "hypo-allergenic" dogs usually cause fewer allergy symptoms is because they generally get bathed more often (most breeds that need haircuts go to the groomer once a month). So maybe bathing a dog of another breed more often would help. But if a person has allergies in general, fur floating around isn't going to help, whether they're specifically allergic to dogs or not.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Willowy said:


> FWIW, I read somewhere that the only reason "hypo-allergenic" dogs usually cause fewer allergy symptoms is because they generally get bathed more often (most breeds that need haircuts go to the groomer once a month). So maybe bathing a dog of another breed more often would help. But if a person has allergies in general, fur floating around isn't going to help, whether they're specifically allergic to dogs or not.


And vacuuming a lot. If you have a big, double-coated dog in a home with a person who is sensitive to dander, you pretty much have to bath the dog more often, and vacuum a lot. This I can report from personal experience.


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## bradmeyer (Jan 14, 2012)

When I bought my puppy he was so confident and eager to greet me that I didnt think of anything else.He had some health issues but I took care of it .Why think so much before choosing?Dont they accept us with all our faults and give uncontional love.Then why cant we?


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

bradmeyer said:


> I When I bought my puppy he was so confident and eager to greet me that I didnt think of anything else.He had some health issues but I took care of it .Why think so much before choosing?Dont they accept us with all our faults and give uncontional love.Then why cant we?


uh-oh, better duck and cover. Try not to mind the people who tell you how "unethical" you are. You must either buy an extravagently priced pup from their approved list of breeders, or take on a shelter dog


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

bradmeyer said:


> When I bought my puppy he was so confident and eager to greet me that I didnt think of anything else.He had some health issues but I took care of it .Why think so much before choosing?Dont they accept us with all our faults and give uncontional love.Then why cant we?


 I think if.you are looking for a pet it wouldn't be such a big deal, other than the health issues. Yet, say I want a dog that is not handler hard, or just for detection, or maybe a Herder that needs certain stronger traits. Here is where the breeder can come in handy to recommend which dog is better suited for you.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

DustyCrockett said:


> uh-oh, better duck and cover. Try not to mind the people who tell you how "unethical" you are. You must either buy an extravagently priced pup from their approved list of breeders, or take on a shelter dog


Well, you do have to consider the ethicality of paying people to produce unhealthy animals. How many will suffer because people support the breeders who don't exercise due diligence? I agree with the concept. . .I love my dogs as they are, healthy or not. But I'd be pretty mad at somebody who doesn't do all they can to make sure the pups they produce will live long healthy lives.


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## hounddawg (Jan 10, 2012)

bradmeyer said:


> When I bought my puppy he was so confident and eager to greet me that I didnt think of anything else.He had some health issues but I took care of it .Why think so much before choosing?Dont they accept us with all our faults and give uncontional love.Then why cant we?


Because that impulse buy might make us feel good temporarily, but it usually ends up causing the death of 10 dogs for the one we think we're "saving."


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I occasionally have a pup that I don't feel is going to be the best choice for working. They are sold very cheap, to appropriate homes, or given away if I am completely comfortable with the new owner. Do most breeders not offer this? I don't have a set fee for puppies, just depends on each dog. I have a general price, but that changes as I see what each pup has to offer.


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## lucidity (Nov 10, 2009)

I've spoken to many, many breeders.. and most of them don't have a waiting list per se, more like an "email litter update" list. Everyone who's contacted them for a puppy gets put on that list, and when a litter is born they send out emails to ALL the people on the list. After that, whoever replies first gets first pick, second gets second pick, etc.

They've said that traditional waiting lists don't really work because lots of people change their minds or get a pup from someone else while waiting, so it's a waste of their time to track down these people and cross them off the list. So the litter announcement -> first come first serve reply works for them.

Also, most of these breeders will advise you on which pup they think suits your needs more. Some of the breeders will pick a pup for you, but some are more laid back and will give you advice but let you make the final decision.


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## Morganhorse2003 (Apr 17, 2009)

Bordermom said:


> Look for a breeder that does temperament testing at seven weeks and then selects the pups for the homes. Or at the least, does the temperament testing and then goes over the results with the new owners.
> 
> Unless you are going to spend a few days living in the pen with the pups, the breeder is more likely to know what they're really like, who does what, and then temperament testing can sort out details that nobody might expect. With Bender, she was pick temperament for sure, but conformation wasn't as sure until the grandbreeder (bred the mom) came over and said she was small but would get over that. To this day her breeder says she's one of the best dogs she's ever produced. With Storee there were two monsters in the litter, but when it came time to test, Storee was more forgiving and more food motivated, the other pup was a bit less into food and more 'up yours' in attitude, so that helped decide.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with this. I have been waiting on a puppy for a long time and have been talking for a while with a well-respected breeder. If all goes well, the female will be bred in February and puppies will be expected in April. This breeder is doing a temperament test at 8 weeks old as well as having professional handlers and other breeders come in and evaluate the puppies conformation and temperament. At this point, the breeder will choose which puppy goes to which home based on what the new owner is looking for and which puppy best suits each owner's needs.


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## DustyCrockett (Sep 24, 2011)

Willowy said:


> Well, you do have to consider the ethicality of paying people to produce unhealthy animals. How many will suffer because people support the breeders who don't exercise due diligence? I agree with the concept. . .I love my dogs as they are, healthy or not. But I'd be pretty mad at somebody who doesn't do all they can to make sure the pups they produce will live long healthy lives.


If the animals are healthy, then the ethics are OK? What if they destroy healthy animals because the color scheme is wrong, or the snout too long, or they have no ridge on their backs?


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

DustyCrockett said:


> If the animals are healthy, then the ethics are OK? What if they destroy healthy animals because the color scheme is wrong, or the snout too long, or they have no ridge on their backs?


 I absolutely wouldn't buy from a breeder like that either. Really, my criteria for buying from a breeder is so narrow that I probably would never find a breeder that I felt I could support no matter how hard I look. So it'll alway be thrown-away dogs for me, I guess.

But if there were no other options and it really came down to that choice, I would rather support a breeder that doesn't health-test but treats their dogs well and cares about dogs in general (and is careful about breeding for health and temperment even without testing) than one that does health-test but handles their dogs unethically (it's such a joke that killing ridgeless puppies is in the RR "Code of Ethics") or doesn't care about dogs not their own.

But since it isn't usually that hard to find a breeder that does health test and treats their dogs well (even if not to *my* standards, but within reason), people should make an effort to support those breeders and not those who don't make any effort at all.


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