# PetsMart Training



## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey,
I was curious what everyone's opinion is of PM training (if you have one)? From what I read, it can either be totally awesome or the exact opposite.
Have any of you taken their classes? Would you recommend them based on your experience?
Thanks,

Groucho


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

PetSmart training could go either way and if you have other options I"d suggest looking into them. Some trainers there are fantastic: they've been training for years and they know what they're doing. Some trainers know only as much as PetSmart's employee training program has taught them. And remember, just about everything PetSmart employees do is in order to sell things and the trainers work on commission (unless it's changed). I'd look up the trainer and/or watch a class to see how they train and gather your own opinion on them before taking a class.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

I think it would totally depend on who is teaching the class, and if they teach them all or if someone else teaches some of the weeks - find that out then talk to the trainer. Ask them an 'outside of the box' type question like how to get the dog to calm down at mealtimes, and see if they have a few suggestions or just one that sounds like it came from a book. Ask how many dogs they've trained and watch a class to see how it goes.

Another option to find classes is to look for agility and flyball groups in your area and ask them who they suggest.


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## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

That's my biggest thing. I know for a fact that trainers make $20 bucks for every class sold, bare minimum, and that every single week there is a "quota" of classes to sell (my buddy worked there as a trainer for a couple months). So the fact that I, as a potential student, am really just another number to fill in the weekly quota kind of annoys me. 
Also... a lot of the dogs that I have seen in the training ring seem like they are with the "worst of the worst". What I mean by that, is that there will be fully grown dogs -- or puppies -- who, by watching them in the ring, have never seen a dog in their life. Barking incessantly, jumping, growling, etc. If I were in the ring with my dog... I would be annoyed at the fact that I can't hear what the instructor has planned.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Groucho said:


> That's my biggest thing. I know for a fact that trainers make $20 bucks for every class sold, bare minimum, and that every single week there is a "quota" of classes to sell (my buddy worked there as a trainer for a couple months). So the fact that I, as a potential student, am really just another number to fill in the weekly quota kind of annoys me.
> Also... a lot of the dogs that I have seen in the training ring seem like they are with the "worst of the worst". What I mean by that, is that there will be fully grown dogs -- or puppies -- who, by watching them in the ring, have never seen a dog in their life. Barking incessantly, jumping, growling, etc. If I were in the ring with my dog... I would be annoyed at the fact that I can't hear what the instructor has planned.


Well as a former PetSmart trainer (I left for a variety of reasons, but mostly to start up my own company), I can tell you that I personally could care less about the quota. I wanted students because I enjoyed teaching and training, and I got those students by talking to them about their dogs. If they ended up asking about training, then great. If not, then so be it. Sure there are those that sell just to sell, but they are not all like that (the other ones at my store were/are definitely not). There have been training clubs I have been a part of that work to fill a quota, too - it's not just at the chain stores. People have to make a living, ya know? 

There are also barky dogs that have "never seen a dog in their life" everywhere. So the best thing you can do is check out various places (PetSmart, Petco, local training clubs, wherever) and observe a class or two and talk with the trainer(s) there. 

Hope you find a place that works for you and your dog 

ETA - I had been a trainer before I started working for PetSmart. After I moved from TX to PA, I needed a place to work and wanted to continue training, so PetSmart ended up working for a bit. So there are some that have had prior experience in training before working there.


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## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

Finkie_Mom said:


> Well as a former PetSmart trainer (I left for a variety of reasons, but mostly to start up my own company), I can tell you that I personally could care less about the quota. I wanted students because I enjoyed teaching and training, and I got those students by talking to them about their dogs. If they ended up asking about training, then great. If not, then so be it. Sure there are those that sell just to sell, but they are not all like that (the other ones at my store were/are definitely not). There have been training clubs I have been a part of that work to fill a quota, too - it's not just at the chain stores. People have to make a living, ya know?
> 
> There are also barky dogs that have "never seen a dog in their life" everywhere. So the best thing you can do is check out various places (PetSmart, Petco, local training clubs, wherever) and observe a class or two and talk with the trainer(s) there.
> 
> Hope you find a place that works for you and your dog


Unfortunately, the PM where I live near is VERY much about the quota. My friend told me that the salon, pet care, and cashiers are against the training because of how INSANE management becomes when classes aren't sold.
I understand that people have to make a living, but from my understanding from my friend, I'd just be another number for the weeks goal, which I don't like. That isn't PM's fault in any sense, it's just how I feel : P
And I know that those kinds of dogs are everywhere, but when it is Sunday, and sales are in the air, people flock to PM to get their stuff. A lot of times with their dogs. My issue isn't so much with people having poorly trained dogs (even though it infuriates me), it is the CONCENTRATION of people with said dogs. I can bring my Golden in to train at literally one time throughout the day -- 8 PM. An hour before the store closes. The traffic at this store is just ridiculous. 
I may go over to Petco today and pick their brains apart.


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## nfedyk (Jan 14, 2012)

*I got puppy training classes for my mom for Christmas at Petsmart. I attended the first class with her as I was curious to see how it would go. There were 6 dogs in the class. At first there was alot of barking as some had never been around other dogs. The trainer remained really calm the whole time. The first class the dogs were trained to respond to their name and to sit. The trainer also talked about care of the dogs and made some great suggestions. She gave my mom a sheet at the end of class that summarized what she did so my mom could practice with her dog. The trainer also took some time to work with each dog individually. At the end of class she also asked if we thought it would be better to split the class in half and have 3 dogs per session. Everyone agreed that it would be better. My mom attended the second puppy class this morning alone. She said the dogs were much calmer this time. They reviewed what they learned last week and spent some time socializing the dogs as well as practiced walking on a leash. My mom enjoys the classes and feels they are benficial for her puppy.*


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## DobermanGuy (Dec 16, 2011)

Groucho said:


> I may go over to Petco today and pick their brains apart.


Petco will not be much different in my opinion. 

Have you considered just trying to find a local trainer to help you? (one interested in training and NOT in retail sales)


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Groucho said:


> Unfortunately, the PM where I live near is VERY much about the quota. My friend told me that the salon, pet care, and cashiers are against the training because of how INSANE management becomes when classes aren't sold.
> I understand that people have to make a living, but from my understanding from my friend, I'd just be another number for the weeks goal, which I don't like. That isn't PM's fault in any sense, it's just how I feel : P
> And I know that those kinds of dogs are everywhere, but when it is Sunday, and sales are in the air, people flock to PM to get their stuff. A lot of times with their dogs. My issue isn't so much with people having poorly trained dogs (even though it infuriates me), it is the CONCENTRATION of people with said dogs. I can bring my Golden in to train at literally one time throughout the day -- 8 PM. An hour before the store closes. The traffic at this store is just ridiculous.
> I may go over to Petco today and pick their brains apart.


That's fine - it's your choice as to where you want your dog to be trained. I was just letting you know that not all trainers there are all about the quota (though I know that some are). The management might be (ours was), but we never tried and pressure people in order to make the managers happy. It is a different environment there as far as distractions go, and most trainers there worth anything will give advice as to how to work with those distractions. The placement of the ring also makes a difference (some don't even have training rings and they use the Pet Hotel daycare rooms or just in the aisles). IMO, Petco is not going to be any different than PetSmart - in you will be facing the same issues you've already outlined.

Trainers everywhere need to make a living, at the stores AND at other training clubs. I know, as I've started my own training business and work at a local club. All I'm really trying to say is just do your research with wherever or whomever you decide to train with. You may be missing out on a wonderful trainer just because you have issues with other aspects of PetSmart, or you may not. I don't know your store or the trainers that work there, so I can't tell you for sure LOL.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

DobermanGuy said:


> Have you considered just trying to find a local trainer to help you? (one interested in training and NOT in retail sales)


Yes, because all I cared about when I worked there was retail - I totally didn't love training at all. No concern for the dogs/their owners whatsoever...


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## theyogachick (Aug 2, 2009)

DobermanGuy said:


> Petco will not be much different in my opinion.
> 
> Have you considered just trying to find a local trainer to help you? (one interested in training and NOT in retail sales)


I had a great trainer at Petsmart. He cared about his dogs/owners in class. We have been on hikes with him, I have his number in case I ever had issues. He has gone to people't houses to help them work out issues free of charge. He stops and talks to me each and everytime I am in the store. Whether I have Gracie with me or not, he asks how she is doing. I sent him a text the minute she got her CGC and therapy certification and he sent texts right back.

To classify all Petsmart trainers into a group that doesn't care about training and are only worried about quotas is ridiculous. Are some like that? Probably. But all? Doubtful.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

I had a great trainer at PM as well. I learned a lot from him. He was about the dogs and not the quota (didn't even know there was a quota). He used my Daja several times for examples (she really liked him too). I don't know about the other trainers but David was good. He has been there for a number of years because I still see him there.

Good luck with your training quest.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I would recommend any positive training, if nothing else for the distractions and socialization. I take the SAR dogs for their good citizen deal. The trainer is good for new owners or people very novice to dogs. I never had the impression they were just working for commission or didn't lime training dogs. . I do my own training, but pet stores are great distractions.


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## ArlosMom (Jan 4, 2012)

I was going to do petsmart training, but then I found a six week course done by some trainers licensed by the AKC , for $20 less than petsmart was asking. It's outside in a dog park, not indoors in a small area. The trainers are reachable outside of classes for any questions you might have.
I am more comfortable with this. I was surprised that petsmart wasn't the cheapest option out there, and I love being outdoors and all the dogs in our session are in the same weight range. 

I like that they teach you skills should you want to get your dog involved in any showing, but it's also handy for every day stuff with your dog.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

ArlosMom said:


> I was going to do petsmart training, but then I found a six week course done by some trainers licensed by the AKC , for $20 less than petsmart was asking. It's outside in a dog park, not indoors in a small area. The trainers are reachable outside of classes for any questions you might have.
> I am more comfortable with this. I was surprised that petsmart wasn't the cheapest option out there, and I love being outdoors and all the dogs in our session are in the same weight range.
> 
> I like that they teach you skills should you want to get your dog involved in any showing, but it's also handy for every day stuff with your dog.


AKC doesn't license trainers. The closest I can think of is that if you're certified to evaluate CGCs, AKC allows you to pass out their puppy class materials (and buy their STAR puppy class stuff)


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## ArlosMom (Jan 4, 2012)

Well I should clarify -- It's the "Vegas Valley Dog Obedience Club" (licensed by the American Kennel Club). So, the CLUB is licensed by the AKC. Sorry :redface:


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't care for them, they are totally positive with no adversities at all, sorry but that doesn't work with some breeds. I admit to not being above using a leash pop (light, it's not like I'm pulling the poor creature off it's feet) to get their attention or "touch" them to "snap them out of it" as a certain TV personality says . That's how i trained mine & they are totally focused, even when other dogs lunge at them or ppl want to pet them, they are always happy to oblige.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> I don't care for them, they are totally positive with no adversities at all, sorry but that doesn't work with some breeds. I admit to not being above using a leash pop (light, it's not like I'm pulling the poor creature off it's feet) to get their attention or "touch" them to "snap them out of it" as a certain TV personality says . That's how i trained mine & they are totally focused, even when other dogs lunge at them or ppl want to pet them, they are always happy to oblige.


So what breeds can't be trained with positive reinforcement? What breeds need aversives (or adversities?)


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## Geogirl (Jan 10, 2012)

We had a decent experience with Petsmart training quite a few years ago in southern CA. The trainer was a really great guy, great with the dogs, lots of help, had other experience outside of Petsmart. For the price it was awesome, but our dog had some MAJOR problems that those type of classes just weren't equipped to handle - it was great for sit, down, stay, walk on leash, etc.

I went to our local Petsmart where we live now to get some info on classes for our new puppy and I was immediately turned off by the trainer. She made some asinine comments and was also very condescending toward me. I watched some of her class the other day and it was so, so sad. I am far from a dog training pro, but the people were making just tons of mistakes. I felt so bad for one little boxer puppy. His owner kept YELLING "sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit" over and over in his face. He had no idea what the guy wanted and was so confused. When he finally sat (probably out of boredom), the guy jerks his leash to pull him up again and starts over with "sit, sit, sit, sit" Trainer just kept saying "Keep trying, keep trying"

So - I think its just completely depends on the individual trainer.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

dogdragoness said:


> I don't care for them, they are totally positive with no adversities at all, sorry but that doesn't work with some breeds. I admit to not being above *using a leash pop* (light, it's not like I'm pulling the poor creature off it's feet) *to get their attention* or "touch" them to "snap them out of it" as a certain TV personality says . That's how i trained mine & *they are totally focused*, even when other dogs lunge at them or ppl want to pet them, they are always happy to oblige.


Don't you mean "MOSTLY" focused ?

If your dogs were in fact "totally" focused, there would be no need for a leash pop in the first place.

Maybe injecting a little more positive-style training might help you to achieve focus much closer to "totally". .... Hmmm ???


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

ArlosMom said:


> Well I should clarify -- It's the "Vegas Valley Dog Obedience Club" (licensed by the American Kennel Club). So, the CLUB is licensed by the AKC. Sorry :redface:


Clubs can frequently charge less than Big Box or private trainers. The trainers are volunteers, and especially if they are training in the park, have very little overhead.


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## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

I went to the PM store today and observed a week 1 class (I assume). Clickers were handed out, and the class was told that they were mandatory for the course. 
I love the idea of clickers, and think they are a very neat thing, but I don't like using them at all for a variety of reasons.
I may want to look into my local club..


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Groucho said:


> I went to the PM store today and observed a week 1 class (I assume). Clickers were handed out, and the class was told that they were mandatory for the course.
> I love the idea of clickers, and think they are a very neat thing, but I don't like using them at all for a variety of reasons.
> I may want to look into my local club..


Just out of curiosity, what is your objection to clickers?


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## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

1) I am extremely uncoordinated. : P
2) I get sick of the sound very quickly.
3) I am EXTREMELY uncoordinated. 

With that all said, I have used clicker training as a method in my classes for well over 50 dogs now, and some people adore them, some abhor them. They have the potential to work really,really well; when I work at the local shelter with behavior modification, I have one on me at all times for the dogs I work with. Loading the clicker, working with it, the whole 9 yards. 
For my dogs, it just isn't something I care to use.

Are there potential drawbacks to the clicker? Sure, but in capable hands it can be a very effective tool.


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## PatchworkRobot (Aug 24, 2010)

I love clickers but now that I have timing down I'd rather not use them and substitute a "yes!" instead. If I had a third hand and about 100 clickers so that one was always with me I'd keep with the clickers but since I don't have those things it's hard to always have one and train things where I need two hands.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Groucho said:


> I went to the PM store today and observed a week 1 class (I assume). Clickers were handed out, and the class was told that they were mandatory for the course.
> I love the idea of clickers, and think they are a very neat thing, but I don't like using them at all for a variety of reasons.
> I may want to look into my local club..


LOL I don't use clickers in my own training and I even taught at PetSmart. If that's your only beef with the class, then ask the trainer if you can opt to NOT use a clicker and use a word instead (I teach/taught my students how to time things appropriately so they could end up doing whatever they wanted). I don't think the trainer would have a problem with it, especially if you specifically say you don't want to use one.

You should go check out a class or two at other places, anyway, just to be sure you're picking the right one, though


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## jiml (Jun 19, 2008)

petpeeve said:


> Don't you mean "MOSTLY" focused ?
> 
> If your dogs were in fact "totally" focused, there would be no need for a leash pop in the first place.
> 
> Maybe injecting a little more positive-style training might help you to achieve focus much closer to "totally". .... Hmmm ???


:blabla: whatever works for you.


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

Finkie_Mom said:


> You should go check out a class or two at other places, anyway, just to be sure you're picking the right one, though


Groucho, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't get the impression you're looking to actually join a class, because you are already a trainer?


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## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

3doglady said:


> Groucho, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't get the impression you're looking to actually join a class, because you are already a trainer?


Right. I'm only looking for socialization, that is why PM has my interest. With that said, I am also interested in competition obedience and agility, which PM does NOT offer, but the local club does. 
An elderly man with his Bichon told the trainer he has a lot of difficulty timing the clicker and would prefer to not use it, and the trainer told him to "just keep trying"... I want to be pretty sarcastic, but I won't.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I am all for reward based training but not the treat-heavy methods. It seems to me that the dog does [set] behavior bc they know that eventually they will get a treat. Its hard for me to explain but I aim for my dogs to get excited about the behavior/task they are performing so it BECOMES the reward so we all enjoy ourselves.


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks for clarifying. I tend to avoid PM, but I've heard good things from others. I tend to stay with the local, non-chain, related trainers because they can tailor more to your needs. PM is a bit constrained for me. If I can't find exactly what I need, I'll ask my vets, dog sitters, therapy dog handlers, etc. The more my circle widens, the easier it is to find what I need. Good luck.

ETA: My experience has been that facilities that offer agility tend to have good basic classes. The instructors are more likely to think outside the box. But, Finkie Mom has a point. Talk to the trainer or manager at PM and see if they are willing to work with you.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> I am all for reward based training but not the treat-heavy methods. It seems to me that the dog does [set] behavior bc they know that eventually they will get a treat. Its hard for me to explain but I aim for my dogs to get excited about the behavior/task they are performing so it BECOMES the reward so we all enjoy ourselves.


The wonderful thing about R+ based training is that the behavior DOES becomes the reward. It's set up that way. If you play your cards right, the cue becomes a tertiary reinforcer, and the work has such positive associations that it becomes more important than treats. Frequenly if Alice and I are free shaping, she'll leave offered treats on the floor until she's solved the puzzle. It's the interaction/communication/game that she loves.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

3doglady said:


> Talk to the trainer or manager at PM and see if they are willing to work with you.


Quite honestly, as a local, non-chain related trainer, if someone came to me and suggested they were not interested in actually learning, and training by the methods I teach, but only in having an opportunity to socialize their dogs, I'd probably suggest they go elsewhere. That said, I've probably had more "other" trainers through my classes than most. But they were there to learn.


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

jiml said:


> :blabla: whatever works for you.


Yep, it does work quite nicely for me.

And, over the years, it appears to have worked equally well for my judges too. TYVM  lol


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

> So what breeds can't be trained with positive reinforcement? What breeds need aversives (or adversities?)


It's not the breeds, it's the dog within the breed that may walk to the beat of a different drummer.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

wvasko said:


> It's not the breeds, it's the dog within the breed that may walk to the beat of a different drummer.


and with that dog, what may be important is simply figuring out what motivates or reinforces.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Pawzk9 said:


> and with that dog, what may be important is simply figuring out what motivates or reinforces.


All trainers are suppose to read/figure every dog, but some just lack proper reading skills. Years ago in Chicago there was an "Obedience Send Trainer To Home" company/school (whatever you want to call it) 

Anyway I happened to know the man that started it and he was at best very challenged to read a dog or for that matter pet a dog. He would hire 5.00 an hour people, work with them for an hour and send-em out to homes. He actually stayed in business 4 or 5 years and I shudder at what dog damage he was responsible for, I assume times have changed for the better but I still remain a skeptic. Too many years in the trenches.

I've heard stores like Best Buy turn loose techie sales people after a short training period. I would hope a place like PetsMart has a better plan.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

wvasko said:


> All trainers are suppose to read/figure every dog, but some just lack proper reading skills. Years ago in Chicago there was an "Obedience Send Trainer To Home" company/school (whatever you want to call it)
> 
> Anyway I happened to know the man that started it and he was at best very challenged to read a dog or for that matter pet a dog. He would hire 5.00 an hour people, work with them for an hour and send-em out to homes. He actually stayed in business 4 or 5 years and I shudder at what dog damage he was responsible for, I assume times have changed for the better but I still remain a skeptic. Too many years in the trenches.
> 
> I've heard stores like Best Buy turn loose techie sales people after a short training period. I would hope a place like PetsMart has a better plan.


None of which has to do with the question of which dogs (breed or individual) are unable to respond successfully to positivie reinforcement. I wouldn't say Petsmart has a "better plan" which is why it is important to check out the individual trainer. Some are people with previous experience who know what they are doing. Others are cashiers/stockers who want some extra income. There is a training program, but honestly, I think you can get a ton of "book learning" and if you don't have hands-on experience with a variety of dogs, you are likely to be behind the curve. Of course, I also recommend checking out trainers who work for a club or work at an small business school.


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## 3doglady (Jul 31, 2011)

Pawzk9 said:


> Quite honestly, as a local, non-chain related trainer, if someone came to me and suggested they were not interested in actually learning, and training by the methods I teach, but only in having an opportunity to socialize their dogs, I'd probably suggest they go elsewhere. That said, I've probably had more "other" trainers through my classes than most. But they were there to learn.


I agree with you to the extent that when I join a class, I expect to follow through on what they are teaching - and I learn something new every time, every class. My point is that there are trainers who can work with whatever individual issues you may have, whether it's an inability to handle a clicker, individual behaviors, or a dog who does not respond the same way 95% of the other dogs respond. 

I worked with a trainer in class a few years ago that I had worked with previously, one-on-one, to brush up on Leann's skills for her CGC. It's not that she wasn't taught, or capable, but she did need a refresher in a more social setting. We joined the class with the trainer's permission and I was open to whatever she was teaching. She, as a trainer, was also open to the fact that we knew the drill and that I was there mostly for the exposure. She utilized us for demos and we utilized the class to brush up on her skills. We also learned a few new techniques along the way. It was a win-win for all involved.


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## SassyCat (Aug 29, 2011)

I don't see a problem with using both Yes and clickers depending on occasion. Why would you limit yourself to just one option. Clicker is very good when dog shows extraordinary performance in anticipating a command, like "out" or "release" - you get carried away and say the command slower than you usually do, dog performs well and you can click before you even finish saying the word, more natural than interrupting yourself. Super active dogs love clickers seeing as you would mark their extra effort but it doesn't mean that you should not charge "Yes" as well.


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## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

Absolutely, using both clicker and vocalization is a great idea; I just can't do it.


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Groucho said:


> Hey,
> I was curious what everyone's opinion is of PM training (if you have one)? From what I read, it can either be totally awesome or the exact opposite.
> Have any of you taken their classes? Would you recommend them based on your experience?
> Thanks,
> ...


I personally wouldn't go anywhere near it myself.. Too much corporate liability concerns injected into it for my tastes which impedes the ability of trainers, and I don't agree with their fundamental policies on training.


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## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

Fundamental policies??


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## TxRider (Apr 22, 2009)

Groucho said:


> Fundamental policies??


I don't subscribe to a positive reward only training philosophy, which is their fundamental policy unless I am mistaken. I feel that animals learn equally well from both positive as well as negative consequences just like every other mammal. I feel some things are best learned from positive consequences, some are best learned by negative consequences, and a combination of both can be more more effective than either one by itself.

I can understand why they would impose such policies, but I wouldn't go near it.


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## Groucho (Jan 12, 2012)

Ah, I see.


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