# 9 week old puppy, questions on crate training and collar wearing



## keptwoman (May 23, 2011)

Hi :wave:
We have had our 9 week old boxer puppy for a week now. We have never had a dog before.
On the whole things are going pretty great!
I've already read up on the forum and found answers to questions on biting and pottying, but I still have a couple of others.

1/ She has been wearing a collar for 3 days now, and still frequently tries to scratch it off. She walks around with one leg constantly twitching to get at the collar. After the first day I thought the collar might be too tight, so I loosened it slightly but it has made no difference. Is this leg twitch at the collar normal? I'm sure it's silly but I'm paranoid it will mess up her muscles and damage her hip, she walks funny because of it (and not when the collar is off)

I really want her to get used to it because I really need to have her on a lead inside until she is fully potty trained, we have very large open plan living areas and I simply can't close off bits to keep her close by. She keeps peeing in the dining room, sigh.

2/ Crate training. I have got her sleeping in her crate during the day, she goes there happily now. But come night time she wants to be sleeping on us in the living room, and then on our bed when we head for bed. For the first few nights, the crate wasn't up and I didn't have a box that she couldn't jump out of, so she slept on our bed so I could hear her wake and get her out to potty quickly. I know this was not wise, and I have no intention of it being an ongoing situation.

She has slept through the night since we brought her home, miracle I think! I took her out to potty 4 times the first night and she didn't potty, just wanted to go back inside. As long as I get her out quickly in the morning when we wake, she is fine overnight. 

The crate is downstairs and we sleep upstairs, but it would be really hard to put the crate in our room, as we would need it downstairs again each morning and there is no midpoint because between the current crate location and the bedroom is a set of stairs and a very small landing that will not fit a crate. Also I don't want her going up and down the stairs because 1/ I can't easily supervise when I am downstairs and 2/ the breeder said that too much up and down stairs when they are young is bad for their hips.

I tried putting her in her crate last night, but she keeps barking and crying LOUDLY, and waking the kids. So, do I ease her in, and if so how, or do I just go cold turkey? I was worried that cold turkey may make her hate her crate.

Anyway, thanks in advance for answering these newbie questions.

OK, well so much for being OK with the crate during the day. She IS Ok, but not when we go out. I just put her in for a sleep and then we left the house, leaving one very quiet teen to keep an eye on her, so she thought we were all out. She barked the house down apparantly, he went and sat by the crate to try to settle her but had no luck so got her out.
I don't think we are doing this right, but I'm flying blind here! Is there a thread which explains crate training well?


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Since you have let her sleep in bed, this will be hard to break. What kind of crate so you have? Is it a wire cage one or a plastic one like the ones they use on airlines? Either you can cover, they sell nylon wire crate covers at WalMart foe pretty cheap, that's what I have for mine.

I don't have any other advice then just to let her ride it out at night, no matter how much she cries, you must not give her attention when she is making a fuss, for bathroom breaks, only get her out when she is quiet... Even if its only for a few seconds. 

I always left a radio or something with human voices on when my pups were young, you could try that. I will say that there are more experienced ppl on this forum then me, I'm just retelling what has worked for me, hopefully someone more experienced will stop by lmbo.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

I would put the crate in your room, right next to your bed, and keep her on a tie-down downstairs. 
For my 'normal' puppies, the ones I didnt raise for guide dogs, we let them sleep in our bed :redface: and it was so much easier for us. I could hear them wake up and take them out if needed and they slept in later in the morning. Probably not recomended, but I did it. Of course with my guide dogs, I cant do that. I think your pup will sleep better if the crate is in your room. 

This is a tie-down. My sanity saver. I recommend it to everybody. I either hook the leash to the cable or just hook the cable to the collar. Its a HUGE help with puppies and they dont mind it at all. I have a few hooks mounted throughout my house. 
















Oh by the way, dont take the collar off, he'll get used to it. Some just take longer than others. If he absolutely cant accept it, maybe try a different type.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Congratulations on your puppy!  Here are my thoughts on your questions:

1. Check your collar. Feel the inside. Some collars are made better than others. I was very picky about our dogs' collars (still am, actually!). The part where the collar is folded under and sewn can be rough, or can have a bit of material that isn't flat, and can be itchy. I always make sure the inside of the collar doesn't have any spots that might stick up and be itchy.

2. Having your puppy sleep in bed with you isn't a problem unless you don't like it. The only thing is, I would definitely wait until she's potty trained. Our pups both sleep with us, but were crated at night until they were potty trained. 

So, I think it's important that you crate her at night, at least for now. The thing is, puppies are very social. And, she's in a new home, missing her mama and brother. I think the nights would go much more smoothly if you could crate her in your room for now. It can really help a young pup if she can hear and smell you at night.

This might mean getting a second crate, maybe just a travel crate, to use in your room for now.
Also, try covering the crate at night.

During the day, or anytime that you're home with the puppy you can do some "crate conditioning", which is just working on getting her comfortable in her crate, starting with short periods of time, and gradually increasing. BUT, you say she's fine in the crate for naps during the day, right? So, I don't know if crate conditioning is really necessary.

IMO, the best fix would be to crate her in your room. It keeps her safe, keeps her from roaming free and being destructive at night, and being close to you will probably comfort her.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Labmom>> I love tie down, I use it at the barn to keep her out of trouble when im helping OH with his horses or whatever becsuse she really doesn't know about not picking up naughty things & such every once & a while.

As for the collar, Jo used to scratch at hers alot (she wears a bell so I can tell where she is lol, as she is off lead) Izze hated her collars, & I say pleural because she took off & destroyed more then one lol lol. Now she doesn't even wear a collar unless I have to take her somewhere.


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## Labmom4 (Feb 1, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> Labmom>> I love tie down, I use it at the barn to keep her out of trouble when im helping OH with his horses or whatever becsuse she really doesn't know about not picking up naughty things & such every once & a while.
> 
> As for the collar, Jo used to scratch at hers alot (she wears a bell so I can tell where she is lol, as she is off lead) Izze hated her collars, & I say pleural because she took off & destroyed more then one lol lol. Now she doesn't even wear a collar unless I have to take her somewhere.


Honestly, I wouldnt keep doing this without tie-downs. They seriously save my sanity! I carry it with me, so if I go to someone's house or have a dentist appointment or something like that where I cant hold her, I hook the cable to a piece of furniture or the dentist chair. LOL!.


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## keptwoman (May 23, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> Since you have let her sleep in bed, this will be hard to break. What kind of crate so you have? Is it a wire cage one or a plastic one like the ones they use on airlines? Either you can cover, they sell nylon wire crate covers at WalMart foe pretty cheap, that's what I have for mine.


It's a wire one, and we have it covered with a blanket.

Good idea on the radio, I'll give that a go.



doxiemommy said:


> Congratulations on your puppy!  Here are my thoughts on your questions:
> 
> 1. Check your collar. Feel the inside. <snip>
> 
> ...


I've checked her collar, it seems OK, but I'll take a look at the store tomorrow to see if I can get a better one.

She is fine during the day, but only for sleeping. Although she will wake and be happy for a while but I can't put her in it awake. I'm going to buy a Kong and see if that helps with that. Being able to put her in awake is pretty important, plus her being OK when we leave the house.

No, we really don't want her on the bed at night. She is a bed hog as a 9 week old, imagine what she will be like fully grown!! Having said that, while she is not fully house trained during the day, she sleeps all night and we can take her out in the morning to pee, so I'm not worried about her on our bed from that perspective, PHEW!

I'll check out travel crates, that might be a good option, thanks. We'll probably need one anyway for camping. I actually wouldn't mind her being in our room permanantly if she were crated, but then it might be harder on her when she needs to be kennelled??

[Quote removed by moderator]

Thank you. Yes, I really do need her to be OK alone, I have to take the kids out a couple of times a week to places I just can't take her, she needs to be OK in her crate! Here is a picture of our baby the day we brough her home at 8 weeks, 3 days:


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## keptwoman (May 23, 2011)

Last night = Disaster!

We decided to put Lola in her crate in our room, we carried the darn thing up the stairs and installed it in our bedroom and followed our normal evening routine, ending in puppy going into crate instead of on to bed.

It went like this:
40 mins of crying and barking
DH got down and talked to her and she dropped off to sleep 
15 min sleep
20 mins of crying and barking
DH got down and talked to her and she dropped off to sleep
10 mins of sleep
20 mins of crying and barking
DH got down and talked to her and she dropped off to sleep
5 mins of sleep 
30 mins of crying and barking
We gave up and when she stopped for a second, we got her out and put her on the bed.

Now I know that we should have rode it out, but we had work and school and meetings and visitors the next day so we actually needed to sleep! 

So what I would like help with is a plan to get her OK in her crate, awake during the day and asleep at night.

Right now she will sleep in it during the day and even be awake for periods in it after a sleep but we can not put her into it awake.

Yesterday I went out and bought her some toys. I have 3 things that will be crate toys: a pigs ear (heaven apparantly, who knew!!) a little ball toy thing and one of those things you put peanut butter in but not a kong.

So: my plan. Please critique
Today: Get her comfortable in crate again with door closed sleeping (she is a bit jumpy after last night)
Tomorrow: Periods in crate awake: 3x5 mins in am, 3x 10min in pm
Day 3: Periods in crate awake 3x15min in am, 3x20 min in pm
Day 4: 3x25 min in am, 3x 30min in pm
Day 5: 2x40 min in am, 2x 50 min in pm
I'll also work on her being in her crate for sleeping in the evening rather than in the lounge with us.

Is that too fast? Is that likely to work? This is worse than trying to get a kid to sleep!!

We are able to carry the crate up and down the stairs for day and night.

Question: do I wait until she is comfortable during the day awake before trying at night, or do we simply need to go cold turkey at night, even if she cries for hours?? 

AND If she cries in the crate at night, even in our room, is there any value in having it in our room rather than just leaving it in the living room?

Thanks in advance, I'm feeling rather stressed (and sleep deprived) about it all this morning.


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## Taryn (Feb 9, 2011)

You are just going to have to let her cry and IGNORE HER(even if it takes all night) if you want her crated at night. The more times you let her out the more insistent she is going to be(she's learning that the more noise she makes the more likely it is you'll let her out) and if you keep giving her attention while she is whining in her crate she is going to keep it up. Also, the sooner you start the better, waiting(and letting her keep getting in bed with you) is just going to make it worse.

Honestly the only time we crate Dexter is when we aren't home. He only destroy things when he's home alone, as long as someone is here, even if we are asleep he behaves for the most part(rarely he raids the litter box or the bathroom trash.) 

Also, our Old English Sheepdog Abby was crated for less than a week when she got here because she cried throughout the night in her crate. If you have someplace like a laundry room or other dog proofed room(with a tile or other easy clean up floor) I would try to keep her in there, Abby was ok with the laundry room, but not her crate.

I also wouldn't push it right now with her being crated awake unless you are all leaving or she'll be with someone who will totally ignore her when she cries. She'll eventually learn that crying doesn't accomplish anything. I also make Dexter be quiet before I let him out of his crate. I have actually got up had him whine when I walked up to his crate and walked away when he whined until he was quiet. 

You might end up just having to give her her own dog bed in your room if you are sure she can be trusted without the crate. That will require work too in keeping her off the bed. Dexter decided to hog the couch(my bed) the first night he was here and I got almost no sleep. He has got better at sharing, now I just tell him to move and he'll move so I can lay or sit down. Most of the time now if I get on the couch he'll hop off the couch(there is room for both of us to lay side by side) and go lay down either on his bed or the floor.

I would also try to wear her out through exercise(mental, physical or both) before bed time so she is tired and that will help. I notice Dexter gets very pacey, especially during the day, if he hasn't had enough exercise. Of course he is also an adult so I can take him on really long walks or the dog park without worrying about parvo. I would ask your vet about walks and things like that, he knows better than I do if there are any disease outbreaks in your area and the safety of taking her for walks. If you have a fenced yard playing with her out there will help. I know Dexter get 1/2 an hour in our neighbor's fenced yard(the neighbor said we could use her yard when she wasn't home) if I can't get him to the dog park and he is really pacey. I'll also play fetch with him in the house by throwing his ball(or rope bone) up our hallway and having him chase it, but he also has a cat to chase(him and our cat like to play chase.)

Also, does she have a pad in the crate or is she laying on it's hard bottom. Even a blanket will cushion it so it isn't so hard. Face it, would you want to lay down on a hard crate bottom or sleep in a comfy bed?

I'm not sure if I'm any help, I have never crated a dog at night.

By the way- She is so adorable. I love cute puppies.

Taryn


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Your plan is so detailed! 
The first thing that came to mind is, having a detailed plan like that doesn't always work! For instance, 3 x 5 min. in the morning and 3 x 10 min in the pm, that's pretty detailed, and it might not go as well as you'd like. 

When you do "conditioning" like this, that's when you want to build up your puppy's tolerance. That's when you can go slow. AND, that's when you can listen to your puppy, because she will tell you if you're increasing time too quickly!  And, that's when you can give her a frozen, stuffed kong, so she learns that she can "entertain" herself in the crate, and "self soothe".

Now, when you crate your puppy at night, or during the day when you can't keep your eyes on her, or have to leave the house, THAT'S when you have to just ignore her, and wait it out.

But, the conditioning, the getting her used to being in the crate, THAT can go slowly, and it can be changed or tweaked or adapted to what seems to be working for your puppy!


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## jasper21 (May 26, 2011)

Hi kept woman, I feel your pain. We have had our 8 week pup 4 days and have excatly the same trouble. He won't be left alone for even a millisecond. We tried the leaving him to cry trick and the three times we tried this the howling got worse and worse and when we went to him he had done the toilet in the crate - less than 10 mins after being taken out. I have no advice but know what you are going through.


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## keptwoman (May 23, 2011)

Thanks all of you 

Jasper, it sure is hell huh.
A friend sent me this link, and it seems like a plan I can follow: http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html

Doxie, I didn't plan to follow it to the letter, but that was a general aim, with consideration to how the dog was feeling. But I think I'll use the plan in the link above, she will happily sleep in her crate with the door open (it has a folded towels, then two fleece blankets folded a few times, so it's nice and cosy) so I think I will use feeding her in there to get her to go in awake and stay in for a while. It seems like a logical thing to try. 

I'm also going to see if we can get her sleeping on her own bed in our room. To that end I'm going to do some serious puppy proofing in there this weekend. At the moment we can't have her loose in our room (she can't get off the bed as it's too high) because she chews a multitude of items. There is nothing like a chewy puppy to make you a tidier housekeeper huh!! It's done wonders for the kids picking up their stuff about the house LOL.


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## beverley (Oct 7, 2010)

when we got branston, he screamed the street down for 8 nights! we never got up to him (bad i know) he would scream for 20 mins then sleep for 20 mins repeatedly all damn night. but after 8 days he has never made a sound since. it was really hard to ignore him and we all had to get up for work/school but i felt that if i gave in to him he would always do it.

when we got tia, she too screamed at night, but ALL night with no breaks at all! after 2 night we had had enough so we put her crate in our room and now she just sleeps all night. although i have now got to move her downstairs..............

good luck


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## keptwoman (May 23, 2011)

Update:

We have had our Lola for nearly 5 weeks now. For a while there I wondered what on earth I had signed up for, but it's going smoother now 

Here's what we have managed before the questions:

She is pretty much housetrained, if we let her out and tell her to go, she will go, but if she can't get out she will pee inside. I'm hoping she will start to ask by scratching or whining at the door more often.

She will sit on command, come when called (mostly LOL) and stay and drop are coming along nicely.

Walking on the lead without pulling is getting better. We have a special no tug type harness as she would keep pulling until she choked, and still keep going!!

We have her off the bed and onto a dog bed in our room. This is a solution we are happy with, it only took 3 nights and was much easier than trying the crate in the room.

She knows not to jump up on us, she never does it and always comes and sits by us for attention.

Bite inhibition is coming along nicely.

Questions:
1/ The dog hates her crate. I can get her to go in for sleeps, when we are home. But I can't get her to go in awake at all, well not happily, no matter what is in there with her. And she will wake if we leave and cry and bark. I have left her for periods between 30 mins and 2 hours, when we get home she is quiet with bouts of howling. We come in the door and ignore her for a few minutes, then go open the crate. When I open it, she immediately drags all her toys and blankets out of it in a show of protest. I'm seriously considering the tether thing someone linked above. Should I persevere? Any suggestions?

2/She has just got big enough to start getting stuff off of tables, the kids are not the tidiest and this is causing a fair bit of chaos. I'm seriously considering ridding ourselves of the coffee table aka crap collector, and we will be tidying surfaces more often. But how do I stop her thinking anything on tables is fair game. I'm guessing it's consistent discipline, but our house is open plan and I don't have eyes in the back of my head.

3/ She jumps all over visitors. And they generally don't know to ignore it, so her behaviour gets rewarded. I'm hoping to get her to be able to sit and drop when visitors arrive, but right now she is not quite that compliant. She will sit now during most boisterous behaviour, but visitors are just toooooo exciting to stop her. If she was crate trained, I'd put her in it but she isn't. Do I do that anyway and she just gets used to it, or is there a better solution?

And on a cheerful note, she is just such fun. She is on the floor now while DS is going his grammar, putting her paw on him because she wants to play. She cracks us up constantly, crazy dog!


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