# White hair Rottweiler



## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

Got a 4 month rottweiler, with excelent lines, grand grandfather was Astor Junipera, best Rottweiler 2010. 

But he got some white hair on the chest, say around 20-30 hair and say maybe 5-10 hair on the throat. 

Will it grow away you think ? Is the puppy fur gone now ? Or am i doomed to pick it away if im gonna compete ?


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## kcomstoc (Mar 9, 2013)

Pictures are helpful


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Photos would help. 

Also, was he sold to you as a show prospect?


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

https://goo.gl/photos/q2eMRUnX9w1tm6xp7

Its a really bad picture, you can see some at his chest, i had told the breeder i wanted a working dog and taking him to a show would be fun as well even if it wasnt priority. I am mad at my self cause i didnt think about it and had 3 puppies to choose from. I had Rottweiler before and never even thought about this. 

So i hope it will grow away, is there any risc if i pick it out that it will spread even more ?


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## MosinMom91 (Aug 12, 2016)

A lot of older german bloodlines will carry white. 

It's not actually a disqualifying feature as long as it's just a few scattered white hairs and not a full patch. It's a possibility that the pup will lost the white as it gets older. My brother had one that had a patch that dwindled away to a much smaller smattering of hairs by the time she was a year old.


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

I hope as you said it will grow away, this pic blurry head but show chest better if you zoom in.

https://goo.gl/photos/pbyMnSW47CTTnAwA6


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## MosinMom91 (Aug 12, 2016)

glacial said:


> I hope as you said it will grow away, this pic blurry head but show chest better if you zoom in.
> 
> https://goo.gl/photos/pbyMnSW47CTTnAwA6


Even if it doesn't get lost as the pup gets older (Which, it totally could. Pups can change fur color up until about a year old), that doesn't look like enough white to even disqualify you from showing. I wouldn't worry about yanking the hairs out.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

What country are you located in? 

Unfortunately if you were to show him in AKC that much white would probably be held against him, unless he were absolutely perfect in every other way. Even then it can be difficult to find a judge that will acknowledge an exceptional dog with an inexperienced handler. In addition to the white marking he's also not docked, which is against the AKC standard. Now I'm fairly certain there are full tailed AKC Rottweier champions, keep in mind they're not my breed but I have see ads claiming Chmstatus on tailed dogs, however those dogs did not get where they did without great expense.


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

animalcraker said:


> What country are you located in?
> 
> Unfortunately if you were to show him in AKC that much white would probably be held against him, unless he were absolutely perfect in every other way. Even then it can be difficult to find a judge that will acknowledge an exceptional dog with an inexperienced handler. In addition to the white marking he's also not docked, which is against the AKC standard. Now I'm fairly certain there are full tailed AKC Rottweier champions, keep in mind they're not my breed but I have see ads claiming Chmstatus on tailed dogs, however those dogs did not get where they did without great expense.


Hi i am located in Sweden, and i think the rules is the same here about white hair, maybe some judge will be a little more generous than other. But white hair is not allowed. But still he dont really have fur on the chest, as on the back with the double coating. So maybe it will change a bit ! I hold my thumbs.

I see also some spread of the white hair on the sides, just a few here and there. It is as annoying as the white hair in my beard


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## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm seeing white spots mentioned as an eliminating fault in the Swedish breed standard, but nothing about scattered white hairs. 

I'd say wait, take some foundation classes and ringcraft just in case, and see how his adult coat comes in. I don't know much about the breed in terms of how likely it is for the white hairs to go away, but even if they don't, you can get some practice in learning how to handle a show dog! You can see if you enjoy it and gain some experience if you decide you want to show another dog in the future, even if your current (lovely) boy can't succeed in the ring.

I know here in Norway, professional handlers are a lot less common than they are in the US. Most dogs are handled by the owner and/or breeder. Do you know if it's the same in Sweden?


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## MastiffGuy (Mar 23, 2015)

animalcraker said:


> What country are you located in?
> 
> Unfortunately if you were to show him in AKC that much white would probably be held against him, unless he were absolutely perfect in every other way. Even then it can be difficult to find a judge that will acknowledge an exceptional dog with an inexperienced handler. In addition to the white marking he's also not docked, which is against the AKC standard. Now I'm fairly certain there are full tailed AKC Rottweier champions, keep in mind they're not my breed but I have see ads claiming Chmstatus on tailed dogs, however those dogs did not get where they did without great expense.


While not the norm, there are undocked Rottweiler that show AKC. It states traditionally is docked, but it is not supposed to be a fault. All according to the judge on tail, friend shows them AKC and his older is docked but both his younger are natural and he shows them.


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

MastiffGuy said:


> While not the norm, there are undocked Rottweiler that show AKC. It states traditionally is docked, but it is not supposed to be a fault. All according to the judge on tail, friend shows them AKC and his older is docked but both his younger are natural and he shows them.


Docked tail is förbidden for atleast 20-25 years in Sweden, its a felony and animal cruelty that you can go to jail for. My self am happy for my Rottweilers tail, i love his waving tail when he is happy  And all the mood he express with the tail that otherwise would be missing ! I do not support docked tail, leave the animal the way they were born !


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Often times a pup will be born with a few white hairs on his chest and they will fall out as they get their adult hair. Yours has a few extra hairs but they might still fall out. Nice looking pup and the white hair is only an issue if you are showing or breeding. Makes no difference at all for a pet.


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## animalcraker (Nov 9, 2006)

MastiffGuy said:


> While not the norm, there are undocked Rottweiler that show AKC. It states traditionally is docked, but it is not supposed to be a fault. All according to the judge on tail, friend shows them AKC and his older is docked but both his younger are natural and he shows them.


Here's what the AKC breed standard states on the tail:
"Tail - Tail docked short, close to body, leaving one or two tail vertebrae. The set of the tail is more important than length. Properly set, it gives an impression of elongation of topline; carried slightly above horizontal when the dog is excited or moving."

Seems to read pretty clear to me that the tail is to be docked. But nowhere in the standard does it specifically list a full length tail as being a disqualifying fault. Like I said I've seen it done before, but it's certainly not easy or cheap. I remember when I got back into seriously competing that docking was a major issue for the breed club. They would have weekly ads in the dog magazines stating that they are a DOCKED breed and they would pass out special pamphlets to international judges reminding them to judge to the American standard which calls for a docked dog. Back then there was handful of breeders trying to push for an updated breed standard to allow undocked dogs in the wording of the standard but it appears those breeders were unsuccessful since the breed standard hasn't been updated since 1990. 

How competitive and successful is your friend with their younger dogs?


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

animalcraker said:


> Here's what the AKC breed standard states on the tail:
> "Tail - Tail docked short, close to body, leaving one or two tail vertebrae. The set of the tail is more important than length. Properly set, it gives an impression of elongation of topline; carried slightly above horizontal when the dog is excited or moving."
> 
> Seems to read pretty clear to me that the tail is to be docked. But nowhere in the standard does it specifically list a full length tail as being a disqualifying fault. Like I said I've seen it done before, but it's certainly not easy or cheap. I remember when I got back into seriously competing that docking was a major issue for the breed club. They would have weekly ads in the dog magazines stating that they are a DOCKED breed and they would pass out special pamphlets to international judges reminding them to judge to the American standard which calls for a docked dog. Back then there was handful of breeders trying to push for an updated breed standard to allow undocked dogs in the wording of the standard but it appears those breeders were unsuccessful since the breed standard hasn't been updated since 1990.
> ...



Hi, we do not dock tail from dogs in Sweden, it is forbidden for atleast 20-25 years i think. Which i aprove of my self, i like to se my Rottweiler with tail wagging back and forth when happy and showing moods. I think its a myth that some say about balance or something just to have a real "reason" to dock the tails. I think all dogs deserve to have there tails! 

My breeder is not active her self in shows but have many of her dogs being in shows with good sucess. Now maybe i just got a bad luck with the estectics, but ofcourse a healthy dog is ofcourse more important.


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

I also notice one thing more ,the hindlegs seem a little bit taller then the front, maybe an ilussion but the back is a little bit higher. I have no good pics to show but ofcourse can produce one if neccesary  But do puppys grow a little bit uneven ? 

And can also there but little curve on the back ?


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Yes perfectly normal. Puppies grow in all kinds of goofy ways. High in the rear, narrow etc... Curve in the back? This is not going to be a show dog, right? Even the best dogs in the world will produce some that are not breeding/show quality. This in no way changes their ability to be good working/obedience dogs and pets. It is just physical but give him time, he is so young. He is going to change a LOT before he is an adult.

Do you mean a curve in the back like this?


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

Inga said:


> Yes perfectly normal. Puppies grow in all kinds of goofy ways. High in the rear, narrow etc... Curve in the back? This is not going to be a show dog, right? Even the best dogs in the world will produce some that are not breeding/show quality. This in no way changes their ability to be good working/obedience dogs and pets. It is just physical but give him time, he is so young. He is going to change a LOT before he is an adult.
> 
> Do you mean a curve in the back like this?


Hi it prob won't be a good show dog, I will try take some good photos today .

Yes exacly that curve on the back. I will try and photo it also . Is it bad ? Why is it like that !?!?


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

Inga said:


> Yes perfectly normal. Puppies grow in all kinds of goofy ways. High in the rear, narrow etc... Curve in the back? This is not going to be a show dog, right? Even the best dogs in the world will produce some that are not breeding/show quality. This in no way changes their ability to be good working/obedience dogs and pets. It is just physical but give him time, he is so young. He is going to change a LOT before he is an adult.
> 
> Do you mean a curve in the back like this?


Here i got a photo, although very dark, but i think you see the curve on the back . https://goo.gl/photos/nE1pqxQdqMjxuXAN6

Is it bad or will it grow away ?


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Your puppy is very high in the rear right now and also straight in the back legs. Not much for angles but those* can *come back as he gets closer to adult. He is growing so it is not abnormal at all to have screwing looking angles. The pup posted above has a very nice topline right now...again, he is still growing so I am hoping it stays nice as I am hoping to show him. A small bend in the topline is certainly NOT a health issue to worry about, if that is what you are thinking. Cute puppy by the way. Sweet face.


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

Inga said:


> Your puppy is very high in the rear right now and also straight in the back legs. Not much for angles but those* can *come back as he gets closer to adult. He is growing so it is not abnormal at all to have screwing looking angles. The pup posted above has a very nice topline right now...again, he is still growing so I am hoping it stays nice as I am hoping to show him. A small bend in the topline is certainly NOT a health issue to worry about, if that is what you are thinking. Cute puppy by the way. Sweet face.



Damn forum it deleted my msg when i posted reply, anyway.

It will show less if he is in a more alert position, straighten head and hindleg a bit more back. Now the legs are a bit tucked in. But as long as he can be a hard working dog with no hip or bone problems i am happy. Still a bit annoying hes uneven when he got world champions in his lines, but i guess thats nature.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

glacial said:


> Damn forum it deleted my msg when i posted reply, anyway.
> 
> It will show less if he is in a more alert position, straighten head and hindleg a bit more back. Now the legs are a bit tucked in. But as long as he can be a hard working dog with no hip or bone problems i am happy. Still a bit annoying hes uneven when he got world champions in his lines, but i guess thats nature.


 Give him time, he is a puppy, he is growing. Sadly, world champion lines help but each dog is an individual.


And YES, he would look better if he was stacked. That is normal.


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

Inga said:


> Give him time, he is a puppy, he is growing. Sadly, world champion lines help but each dog is an individual.
> 
> 
> And YES, he would look better if he was stacked. That is normal.


What does stacked mean ? You mean straight back or maybe even a lower back on the legs så it goes in a little angle upwards ? 

Well if he is healthy im ok, otherwise i will leave him to breeder, i want a working dog and if he is not ok with his hips or bones it mean i cant work anything with him with danger of hurting him. Then it is better he is with a family just being a family pet, cause he is great with kids so far.

And even if he is loosing his teeth he is pretty good only nipping me at sometimes or the leesh on walk.

Btw another question, why do dogs chase tails ? He get sometimes in some crazy mood and chase the tail for 5 minutes.

Maybe he is just bored


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

This is stacked 



Standing square in front It isn't perfect but he was a youngster in that shot and just learning. 

Tail chasing is just play unless it is happening too often and can become a neurotic thing. I would just redirect him when he does it by tossing a toy or playing with him. What kind of "work" do you wish to do with him?


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

Inga said:


> This is stacked
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow what an amazing Rottweiler, perfect musculature. Wish it was a high res photo for my background  
That is what i mean, it should go like a little curve downwards on the back , exacly as in that photo. Not rounded like mine is. But i hope it straighen out ! For know he has a bit many faults. And he cost me 1600$ , i looked for over 1 year before finding a decent breeder. 

We dont have pro breeders as in U.S , most are home breeders, not bad but not in the legue of a pro. Since you cant live doing this in Sweden.

https://www.hemvarnet.se/verksamhet/grundutbildning/hundforare
This is what i want to do, Patroldog, he is supose to detect and track enemy. Or guard duty. This is not regular army but home defense. You do a couple of weekends each year for training. And both you and your dog get same salary  Not much but its for fun. 

But i also would like to use him for search and rescue, missing people. So when someone is missing he can hopefully help.

And as i said before the protection training is mostly so he get basic idea what to do in a threatning situation. A untrained dog could easily bite owener cause he is afraid unsure what to do. And Sweden is becomming less and less a safe place because of migration from middle easy /africa.


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## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

What a cool program! It looks like the dog will mostly be trained in tracking skills, not to engage with anyone aggressively right? That's good. A dog actually trained to attack is a lot of legal and moral responsibility. I do hope to train a dog for search and rescue some day, myself, though! And my wife's done water rescue training with Leonbergers.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'pro' breeders. Most breeders producing excellent dogs in the US aren't making money off of it, they're doing it out of love for the breed. There are show kennels in some breeds, but they're far from the norm, and I personally will always prefer a dog raised in a home setting from birth. So long as your pup came from health tested stock with parents that were successful in showing and/or working (either in dog sports or in the field), your boy will most likely be perfectly capable for working. Genetics is a strange and wonderful thing, but the natural variation does mean that two show champions can produce a dog that's not _quite_ to standard in one way or another, and won't be competitive in the show ring, but that rarely affects the dog's ability to function.


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

DaySleepers said:


> What a cool program! It looks like the dog will mostly be trained in tracking skills, not to engage with anyone aggressively right? That's good. A dog actually trained to attack is a lot of legal and moral responsibility. I do hope to train a dog for search and rescue some day, myself, though! And my wife's done water rescue training with Leonbergers.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by 'pro' breeders. Most breeders producing excellent dogs in the US aren't making money off of it, they're doing it out of love for the breed. There are show kennels in some breeds, but they're far from the norm, and I personally will always prefer a dog raised in a home setting from birth. So long as your pup came from health tested stock with parents that were successful in showing and/or working (either in dog sports or in the field), your boy will most likely be perfectly capable for working. Genetics is a strange and wonderful thing, but the natural variation does mean that two show champions can produce a dog that's not _quite_ to standard in one way or another, and won't be competitive in the show ring, but that rarely affects the dog's ability to function.


Hi, yes you are right it is mostly for tracking and protecting the group your with. Not an "attack" dog in that sense, but well enough to protect you in case of danger. Attack dog we have att our figther jet squadrons, they are crazy mental dangerous dogs  

Here are some more photos i took today, sooooo hard to get a straight pose since most of the time is spent with him nosing the ground. 
https://goo.gl/photos/EPun3bHf71YEaRDBA

Ahh ok, i thought kennels in U.S were more like dog farms, living to sell and breed dogs in a professional scale  Then i guess its the same as Sweden. I think my dog has old lines from German /Serbian dogs. Broad head and mussle.


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## DaySleepers (Apr 9, 2011)

He really is a handsome boy! I don't know anything about showing Rotties, so I can't speak to his structure.

The US does have dog farms, or puppy mills as we call them. They're awful places, keeping dogs in tiny cages to pump out litter after litter with no health testing or regard to temperament. Often they have minimal to no veterinary care. They sell puppies through brokers or in pet stores or on websites to anyone who has cash on hand, whether or not they're good homes for a dog. Unfortunately, it's hard to shut them down legally without also hurting small-scale breeders.

There's also show and working kennels, which may be more what you're thinking - they keep dogs in nicely sized kennels, make sure they're socialized and exercised appropriately, health test and make sure the parents are good breeding stock in looks, temperament, drive, etc, don't overbreed their females, etc. Like I said, personally? Not somewhere I'd get a dog, but that's largely because the breeds I'm interested in bond strongly to people and need to be in the house with their families. I'd probably have a different opinion if I were looking into, say, a mushing dog or some of the working hounds. But like I said, they're not super common, because doing everything right in terms of health and showing is expensive, and not many people can afford to start and maintain a kennel on that scale and do it ethically.


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## glacial (Jan 7, 2017)

DaySleepers said:


> He really is a handsome boy! I don't know anything about showing Rotties, so I can't speak to his structure.
> 
> The US does have dog farms, or puppy mills as we call them. They're awful places, keeping dogs in tiny cages to pump out litter after litter with no health testing or regard to temperament. Often they have minimal to no veterinary care. They sell puppies through brokers or in pet stores or on websites to anyone who has cash on hand, whether or not they're good homes for a dog. Unfortunately, it's hard to shut them down legally without also hurting small-scale breeders.
> 
> There's also show and working kennels, which may be more what you're thinking - they keep dogs in nicely sized kennels, make sure they're socialized and exercised appropriately, health test and make sure the parents are good breeding stock in looks, temperament, drive, etc, don't overbreed their females, etc. Like I said, personally? Not somewhere I'd get a dog, but that's largely because the breeds I'm interested in bond strongly to people and need to be in the house with their families. I'd probably have a different opinion if I were looking into, say, a mushing dog or some of the working hounds. But like I said, they're not super common, because doing everything right in terms of health and showing is expensive, and not many people can afford to start and maintain a kennel on that scale and do it ethically.


I didnt look for a show rottweiler, just a working dog, but also not that small rottweiler that many people have these days. I want a muscular dog around 50-60 kilos not that enormous either that can barley walk. 

In Sweden athletic competiions is popular which made some breeder shrink there Rottweiler to fit this. I dont like it making small rottweiler male Rottweiler only around 30-35 kilos 65 pounds about ! I rather think you get the dog fit for the job.


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## dextersuerte (Mar 5, 2018)

Hi All,

What can you say about white hairs in the neck of my 8 months old Rottweiler?

For experienced thoughts please.. 

Thanks


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