# Got her spayed, now she leaks?



## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

We got Noel spayed last Friday, and she bounced right back to normal (energy wise) the very next day. She has all the energy she ever did before. _BUT_, my wife and I have noticed that the floor is damp all over the place whenever she gets up ever since... That and her tail is always really wet, almost like its been dipped in her water bowl... It's been a week since her surgery... We didn't know what it was, maybe just excessive licking and chewing? But I also noticed that some spots were more than damp, even little puddles... Well, just now I've been watching her closely, and I noticed that while she was lying down, she was licking herself 'down there' an awful lot... I got down on the floor and felt the floor, and it was soaked (dark carpet, couldn't see it)... Then I noticed little driplets of urine that she was actually licking up as they were coming out... 

So basically, it seems that Noel is _constantly_ leaking pee, non-stop... Everywhere she goes, she leaves little drops of pee... This CANT be normal after getting spayed, but I just wanted to check, cause I've been wrong before when it comes to Noel... 

She's got a slow but constant leak!!!! What to do?


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## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

wish I had more info for but I have heard of this before. I hope they didn't accidently nick(sp?) the bladder during the operation. Hope she will be okay


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

Now that I've actually figured out she's leaking pee, I'm walking around the house and smelling things, and I'm noticing that pretty much everywhere she lays or has laid smells like urine... The couch, her bed, on the floor next to my bed, the entryway of our house... EVERYWHERE... I don't know how we didnt actually figure out it's pee earlier, but I guess it took seeing her licking it up while it was coming out to make me believe thats what it is...


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

Honestly I'd either call or visit your vet. 

Dogs can have incontinence problems after a spay, but this doesn't sound like that at all. 

It's possible her bladder was nicked or that it's nothing to do with the spay and is a urinary tract infection or something similar. 

Yeah I'd at least call the vet and let them know to be sure.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

It could be pee. 

My dog was swollen and had a thin whitesh fluid leaking out of her insition site.

I agree, take her to the vet....that isn't normal with a spay.


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## FourIsCompany (Apr 18, 2009)

Spaying of a dog can cause estrogen deficiency, which causes incontinence. 



> Testosterone and oestrogen deficiencies can induce urinary incontinence. It occurs in 20% of spayed dogs. This effect is not well understood but sexual hormones probably have effects on the urethral sphincter. And this problem is more frequent on females than males. [...] 65% of Boxers are affected, and Dobermans and Giant Schnauzers have a more then average disposition to this condition.
> 
> A study showed that spayed bitches have a higher risk of developing urinary tract infections, the sexual hormone deprivation having an effect on the bladder defense system.


One of my females (Mia) takes hormones twice a week to keep her from leaking all over as you describe. Talk to your vet.


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

so then we get her spayed to prevent one problem, and in doing so create another? poor girl... she's sitting out back staring in not knowing why she cant come in... its killing me, but i have to leave her out... whatever little bit of leaking there was before has gotten much worse, and its a puddle anytime she lays down anywhere...

going to the vet tomorrow...


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

personally I'd let my dog in. Then again I clean up puppy poop and pee all day, so I'm used to it....


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

matthew0725 said:


> so then we get her spayed to prevent one problem, and in doing so create another? poor girl... she's sitting out back staring in not knowing why she cant come in... its killing me, but i have to leave her out... whatever little bit of leaking there was before has gotten much worse, and its a puddle anytime she lays down anywhere...
> 
> going to the vet tomorrow...


I am glad you are going to the vet. This could be as simple as a bladder infection. Her system was all upset with the spay and she might just need some antibiotics to get back to normal. I hope so. I had a dog with an ectopic ureter so I know what you are going through. Good luck at the vet tomorrow. Let us all know how it goes. 
Can you just bring her into the kitchen or hard surface and toss a towel down for her to lay on? I am sure she is miserable with that issue too. The fact that she is licking her bottom might also just be an infection. Let's hope so, that would be an easy fix.


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## FourIsCompany (Apr 18, 2009)

Or make her a diaper out of an old t-shirt? Poor sweetie. The good news is that *IF *it's the hormone imbalance, it's only 2 pills a week in our case. And if she starts them tomorrow, the problem clears up within a day.


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

ahhh... homemade diaper... i didnt think about that... i'll give that a try, cuz she looks MISERABLE outside...


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

Glad you're going to the vet! Get some PullUps and just cut an opening for the tail. Hopefully, this is temporary.



> =FourIsCompany;542876]Spaying of a dog can cause estrogen deficiency, which causes incontinence.


It's only been a week since her spay, so not enough time has gone by for estrogen deficiency.


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

poodleholic said:


> It's only been a week since her spay, so not enough time has gone by for estrogen deficiency.


Well that's a relief to know... Hopefully entirely accurate... Headed to the vet in a few minutes...

Go figure she's not leaking right now though, all dry (must have leaked every last bit of urine out through the night)... Like taking the car to the shop, and suddenly the engines running fine...


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

Okay, I'm not buying the bull that the vet is feeding me... 

According to the vet, Noel has 'Post Spay Incontinence', a _permanent_ dysfunction... He said he's never seen it at his hospital, but that he'd heard of it... So they gave us some medication called Proin 50 that is _supposed_ to help after a couple of weeks, when it tightens the bladder or something like that... I'm not buying it... How do we wind up with the _one in a million_ case, the ONLY one he's ever seen at this vet clinic... Give me a break... I think they did something to her and they're not fessing up to it... Noel is freakin 6 months old, she's a stinking puppy! Now she's permanently incontinent for the rest of her life unless she's on meds, which by the way have a warning label that says it can cause "Hyperactivity and Restlessness"... And she still has to wear a freakin diaper for a few weeks until the meds have time to kick in... This doesnt sound right to me... None of this sounds right... Millions of dogs get spayed... Ton's of them get spayed at THIS CLINIC (it's a very popular and crowded clinic) and they've NEVER had this happen?! Give me a break... Poor Noel seems depressed too... She is not acting like herself... She's being kind of disobedient, she literally looks like she's frowning most of the day, and today at the vet she was barking at all the other dogs... She's _NEVER_ done that before, and she's been to the vet plenty of times... Something isnt right... 

My wife's mom lives down the street from a vet surgeon, and she talked to him about it... His words? "There's no way, that just doesn't happen"... And let me ask ya'lls opinion on this... My wife was the one that took her last week for the operation... She didnt meet the surgeon, was never introduced, wasnt explained what any of the complications or side effects can be, or anything... Regardless of how slim chance something may be, shouldnt the possibility be explained? My wife has been crying most of the day now because she feels like a "bad mom" because we got her spayed and now this has happened to her... Truth be told, neither one of us wanted to spay her in the first place... We only did it at everyones freakin insistence that we do it... So we did it, and now, for lack of a better way of explaining it, she's broken! I'm just not buying it... I think they did something to cause this and they just dont want to fess up to it... When my wife picked her up after the surgery, she was soaked... She asked why and they told her she peed herself in the crate so they hosed her down... We figured 'okay, normal, she was under anesthesia' but now I'm not so sure... Humans dont piss themselves when they're under anesthesia... Noel is completely housebroken... Hasnt had a single accident in about 3 months... She can be inside for 8+ hours easy, and now she walks around leaking all day? 

I'm freakin upset... I dont know what to do with this information or how to process it... I feel so bad for Noel...


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## blkshadow (May 1, 2009)

Ah...I'm so sorry you're going through all this! I don't know what to tell you...I've never heard of this. Maybe you should try going to a different vet to get a second opinion?


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Oh Mathew and Noel, I am so sorry to hear this. I spoke to a friend of mine last night about your dog. She works at a vet clinic and I was explaining the symptoms. She too said, it sounds odd. She thought it sounded more like a bladder infection as well and that it does happen somewhat regularly. Puppy gets spayed and then gets blood in urine and some leaking afterward. Usually that can be cleared up without issue. I really hoped that was what was happening in Noel's case. 
I too wonder about a second opinion. Maybe take he to your mom's neighbor? At his office of course. 
I am just curious as to why you didn't know the surgeon? Did your normal vet NOT want to do the surgery? I mean, spay/neuters are usually done by general vet. I have a hard time imagining that nothing can be done. In humans after a hysterectomy the womans bladder can begin to sag causing incontinence. Usually they can do a bladder lift and solve this problem. I wonder if that is a possibility for your dog?


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

Thank you both for your concern about Noel... Yeah my mom thinks we should get a second opinion as well... 


Inga said:


> She thought it sounded more like a bladder infection as well and that it does happen somewhat regularly. Puppy gets spayed and then gets blood in urine and some leaking afterward. Usually that can be cleared up without issue. I really hoped that was what was happening in Noel's case.


 I was hoping it would be something like this as well... The thing is, once we finally got called into the back at the vet, we basically explained what was happening, and he gave us his diagnosis right off the bat... He didn't rummage through options or ask many questions, he just told us what it was as if he was sure... I thought it seemed too quick, rather than having any other options... He said it was too early to culture her urine since she's still on antibiotics from the surgery...


Inga said:


> I am just curious as to why you didn't know the surgeon? Did your normal vet NOT want to do the surgery? I mean, spay/neuters are usually done by general vet.


 I completely agree... The thing is, she doesn't have _a vet_, and by that I mean there isn't one person that see's her... The vet we go to has like 6 actual veterinarians, and whichever one happens to be available or gets to you first is who you get... So we've never had one that we actually called hers, the way you or I have a family doctor... And as far as who performed the surgery, I have no idea? I didnt know the actual vet could, I thought they had surgeons that did that... So the veterinarian is able to do this procedure then? If so, I dont know who performed hers... But no, we never met the person, never got a chance to talk to them or ask questions, nothing like that...


Inga said:


> I have a hard time imagining that nothing can be done. In humans after a hysterectomy the womans bladder can begin to sag causing incontinence. Usually they can do a bladder lift and solve this problem. I wonder if that is a possibility for your dog?


 My sentiments exactly... It seems like there has to be _something_ that can be done other than being on medication for the rest of her life... I could see it if she were a senior dog or something, but she's freakin 6 months old! She's so young... She was perfectly healthy... The PICTURE of health... And now this....


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Spay incontinence happens...that's what I first thought it was.

There are all sorts of risks that are associated with altering young pets, but the vets only mention the benefits, as do those who are pro pediatric spay/neuter.

Google Spay Incontinence...things will come up.

Sorry you're going through this with your girl.


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## Binkalette (Dec 16, 2008)

My aunt and uncles chocolate lab had the same thing happen to her here in MN.. she is also taking the pills for the rest of her life


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

I find it extremely hard to believe you would see spay incontinence so soon after a spay. Have had dogs with it. I just dont' see it happening that fast...it takes time for the hormones to leave their system and it takes time for their "pee sphincter" to weaken. Our dogs with spay incontinence have not needed meds their entire lives. They take them for a few months if they start leaking and then we wean them off. Haley hasn't needed meds in a couple years!

Get a second opinion from a completely different practice.


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

lovemygreys said:


> I find it extremely hard to believe you would see spay incontinence so soon after a spay. Have had dogs with it. I just dont' see it happening that fast...it takes time for the hormones to leave their system and it takes time for their "pee sphincter" to weaken. Our dogs with spay incontinence have not needed meds their entire lives. They take them for a few months if they start leaking and then we wean them off. Haley hasn't needed meds in a couple years!
> 
> Get a second opinion from a completely different practice.


This is _exactly_ what I'm afraid of, and that's what I mean when I say I don't buy it... She was leaking _immediately_ after the surgery... I mean she wet her crate at the vet afterwards... I really and truly think that they did something in surgery and messed her up... She never had time for hormones to get out of whack or sphincter to weaken or anything, it was immediate... I'm really worried that somethings really wrong with her and its not just spay incontinence, which would suck but I could live with...


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## FourIsCompany (Apr 18, 2009)

I know I said it was spay incontinence at first, but now I'm having my doubts for the same reason that lovemygreys mentioned. How can the vet diagnose something he's only heard of without testing? And then prescribe meds to treat the symptom without knowing what the problem really is??? And if it was hormonal, it seems they'd prescribe hormones (DES), not Proin. That's very confusing. Something doesn't sound right and I vote for a second opinion (different practice) and a new vet while you're at it. 

I'm so sorry, Matthew!


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## lovemygreys (Jan 20, 2007)

Spay incontinence is really not a huge deal...though I'm pretty sure that's not what you are dealing with. There really isn't a test for spay incontinence...its more of a diagnosis of elimination and then you treat to see if that fixes the leaking problem. You want to rule out other issues that can cause incontinence: kidney function, surgery complication, UTI, bladder infection, etc....

I'd have her at another vet asap. While a spay is pretty routine surgery, it is still major abdominal surgery so if there's something not right, it's best to find it sooner rather than later. Being such a routine surgery, major side effects are pretty uncommon, but they do happen unfortunately. I hope you find some answers for your pup. Please keep us posted....


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## FourIsCompany (Apr 18, 2009)

Matthew, can you take her temp (did the vet?) and see if she's running a fever? A sign of infection.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

Matthew find another vet and get her in to actually be looked at. Do you have any friends in the area that are really happy with their vets and would recommend them to you? I have an issue with a vet that makes a diagnosis without any tests and then tells you it is a one in a million thing that happens and that they never saw it happen in their clinic. Hm, something is VERY off with that story. 
Snap diagnosis might work if it is something that happens all the time but he told you it is RARE. It just does NOT add up to what is being said. Good Luck to you. I am still hoping it is an infection and can be cleared up.
I also never had my dogs on antibiotics after a spay/neuter either.


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

FourIsCompany said:


> Matthew, can you take her temp (did the vet?) and see if she's running a fever? A sign of infection.


 Yes he did take her temp... I think it was 101? He said a dogs temp is normal up to 102-103... That's the only _test_ he did do, was take her temp...



Inga said:


> Snap diagnosis might work if it is something that happens all the time but he told you it is RARE. It just does NOT add up to what is being said. Good Luck to you. I am still hoping it is an infection and can be cleared up.
> I also never had my dogs on antibiotics after a spay/neuter either.


 That's what I was thinking... It wasn't that he seemed _unsure_ about his diagnosis, it just seemed like a pretty freakin quick diagnosis, without any testing and relying only on our description of what was going on...

They don't usually put a dog on antibiotics after spaying them? The vet gave us pain killers and some kind of antibiotic (amoxicillin)...


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## Lolas_Dad (Apr 28, 2008)

Because of the possibility of spay incontinence or something else going wrong I had Lola spayed at the regular vet who was recommended to me by my sister. I could have opted for a clinic and probably gotten a cheaper rate but I might not have gotten my dog back. The small ones are especially critical to being put under.

As for a rabies shot I take her to the clinic the health department has annually because it is free. Saves me about $25.00 when I go to the vet for her other shots and wellness check.


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## matthew0725 (Dec 25, 2008)

Look at her... Does this look like a happy dog? Poor girl (although she still manages to make a diaper look awfully cute)


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## Bonnie Napholc (Apr 28, 2009)

aww Im so sorry for you and puppy I would personally go and talk to the surgeon responsible and tell them you expect them to pay for further expenses in seeing she gets repaired or looked at by a specialist! I wish you all the best and I hope she heals all on her own soon best of luck


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## blkshadow (May 1, 2009)

Except I doubt the surgeon would hear any of it. He'd deny that the spaying surgery had anything to do with her bladder issues.


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## lulutoo (Mar 30, 2009)

I agree with the getting her to another vet for a second opinion, but you might want to consider keeping her on the Proin while you get this worked out.

Last summer we adopted a five month old mixed breed from our local shelter. She was spayed there before she was released to us. In less than a week from her adoption date we noticed that she was incontinent in her sleep. She would wake up from her nap and there would be a puddle underneath her. 

The first vet I took her to did a culture looking for infection, mentioned spay incontinence or perhaps a birth defect that caused the leaking. He mentioned all kinds of tests and surgeries. I was in shock and took her home. We had adopted a young dog that was basically going to wet herself for the rest of her life!

I took her to a vet that I had used before for a second opinion and she was put on Proin, without all the tests the other vet had mentioned. She had been on antibiotic even though the first vet did not find an infection but her had recommended that we finish the prescription. Anyway, we wanted to see if the Proin was helpful before we started rummaging around her insides.

Well, we have had very good results with the medication. Even though I do not know what caused the problem in the first place I know what I can do to help her. She may be able to be weaned off the meds, but that hasn't happened yet. I was able to get the prescription through KVVET.com for a discounted price that made it more affordable.

Our dog is happy, and I couldn't say that she is any more hyper or aggitated because of the meds. She sometimes has a relapse when we forget too many pills in a row, but that is our fault. As time has gone by I often wonder if she was dumped at the shelter because of her incontinence, but that is a different story. God has placed her with us because he knew we would do what we could to take care of her. 

I empathize with your anguish over the whole thing. Especially if there is someone that could have answers that they are not forthcoming with. Hopefully, it is something that will get better with time. You sound like a very caring and thorough man and your dog is lucky to have you. Good luck with this.


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

I would definitely get a second opiniom myself. This sounds kind of strange. How does the area look where she was spayed? When I had Nell spayed, she did leak a little now and then, but nothing serious. Then after a couple days, I noticed some bubbles forming at the ends of the incision, and a couple along the incision where the stitches were. So I called and they just said to keep a close eye on her and not to let her lick the incision. The very next day the incision started oozing a lot of white puss, so I took her in immediately. They said they would take her back to check her, then send her home with me with antibiotics. Well, 10 minutes later they came out and said they had to keep her overnight, as they had to take her into emergency and reopen her and flush her out, as she was extremely infected. They flushed her out, redid her stitches, and put her in antibiotics, and she was fine after that. In fact, within 2 days, she was hard to keep from running around, but I tried to keep her as inactive as I could so it could heal. And she was fine ever since. I'm glad I have a good vet, anything I need they will actually look at and not just give you what you want to hear without actually looking. And we have like 6 vets at the office, but you can request a specific one, so I have the same guy for all 3 of my dogs. The only time I would have a different one is if my regular vet is out of town or on vacation, which is very rare. When Nell went in for the infection, it was another vet that worked on her, as my regular vet had just gone home for the evening. I know all the vets in the office are good as well, so I had no problem with her being seen by one of the others. It was urgent, and he was right there.

So how does the incision look? Any swelling or bubbles? Anything that may look not right due to her licking? She shouldn't be licking the incision at all. How's she doing now?


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

See another vet ASAP, take a deep breath, and try to relax. It may well be a UTI, which can be cleared up w/meds. I'm against early spays, although 6 months isn't THAT young (unlike spaying infants at 8, 10, & 12 wks.). My understanding is that incontinence is a risk when spays are done in young dogs (before sexual maturity), but, not always the case. I chose to not spay Maddy, until she had something else requiring her to go under anesthesia, so had it done at that time (she was 7 yrs. old). She is not incontinent. I also elected to have a specialist do laser surgery; less invasive, quicker recovery. 

If something happened to your little girl during surgery, I would think that you'd be facing a medical crisis right now. As upsetting as this situation is, it may not be permanent, so keep the faith, and expect the best. 

Keep us posted!


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

matthew0725 said:


> Yes he did take her temp... I think it was 101? He said a dogs temp is normal up to 102-103... That's the only _test_ he did do, was take her temp...


Yeah, a dog's temperature should be between 100.5 and 102.5. 

Spay incontinence is actually not that uncommon and is fairly easily treated. We have several dogs at my clinic that are treated with Proin for spay incontinence, but I have never seen it come on quite that quickly.

I'd definitely get a second opinion. Even if it ends up being spay incontinence (pretty easily treated by proin or DES) they _really_ should have done a full urinalysis to rule out urinary or bladder problems.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Sometimes a vet nicks the ureter or bladder when they're cutting out the reproductive organs. That could also cause leakage almost immediately, and if the meds don't work you should look into that possible cause.


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## DogsforMe (Mar 11, 2007)

Incontinence was one of my concerns having Tilba spayed. I took her to the vet the week before she was done to make sure she was up to it & ask about it. He went into great detail on the possible causes, what they used to think it was & what they are leaning towards today. I can't remember much of what he said, only that a spay itself doesn't cause it. My previous bc had incontinence in later life, she was spayed at 6 mths & Tilba was spayed at 14 mths after having a season.

Have you taken Noel to another vet yet? & if so what did they say?


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## scottmm3 (Sep 26, 2013)

I just got my puppy spayed a week ago and we are experiencing the exact same situation that happened with Noel. I was just wondering what the final result was and if Noel is still on medication. Any help is greatly appreciated!!!


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

So fast after surgery, not spay incontinence. Did the vet do a urinalysis? Many are able to do one right in the hospital. One would not want to run a culture and sensitivity without running a in house urinalysis first. It takes a while for the hormones to leave the body. Plus I would use DES http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_diethylstilbestrol__des_.html instead of Proin personally for my own dogs. I have 8 spayed females right now and not one of them has this problem. Two of them are 14 and 16 years old. I still would spay my dogs because I see more complications with pyometra (infection of the uterus) and breast cancer in the unspayed female dogs. 

I would take her to another vet for a second opinion and see what they have to say. You are under no obligation to stay with this vet.


Just saw this post is from 2009 and to the poster from today I will leave my advice to you to follow through with. Have her check for a UTI and then go for meds for incontinence.


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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

Yeah from 2009. 

BUT spay incontinence is much higher in females who are spayed young, under 1 year old. It was talked about on the aussie forums a fair amount when spay's came up. Some of the posters had previous aussie's or dogs who experienced spay incontinence at an early age spay. I agree something may have been wrong after surgery though, for her to be leaking right away . Hope you figured out what the deal was OP!


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## scottmm3 (Sep 26, 2013)

The vet did another urinalysis today and said everything looked normal. They took an x-ray and said that she is "blocked up with poop". So they are keeping her overnight and "fasting" her to hopefully help with that. I figured maybe they would give her a laxative, but they didn't mention anything about doing that so we are just confused.


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## Sparkles123 (Dec 3, 2012)

So sorry that you are going through this! It's upsetting enough to go through the surgery, any surgery!


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