# Training for Obedience/Rally



## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Would it be a bad idea to try to train for obedience or rally on my own? We are in a new training club, and they require that you take some basic courses before you move on to the more advanced stuff. That makes sense in my mind, but lots of the stuff we are doing in class is stuff we already know. (We being me and Kimma, not me and Pentti)

I don't want to stop helping her to progress in her heel work and all of that, but we aren't getting direct instruction as to how to train it all. Should I just wait and keep with the basics? We are also doing a Recall course online by Susan Garrett, so it's not like we're not doing anything new... And with our taking a break from agility for a bit, I figured obedience/rally was the way to go for the time being. In the long run, I would want to keep up with training in all of those area.

I'm just so new at this, and I don't want to mess anything up. Does anyone have any good videos/online stuff to help me out? Or should I just be patient and wait until we're in formal classes?

FWIW, I'm more in to doing formal obedience first, and maybe rally after that. I would love for Kimma to get her CD or CDX (probably not more obedience after that), then maybe her RAE. In like a few years, of course


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

Not a bad idea at all  I do. I really don't enjoy doing it on my own, but it is VERY possible to do it yourself.


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## LuckySarah (May 3, 2010)

Do it yourself and do rally first (its easier).

The hardest part for me is the rules since I am a newbie but watch a few videos on youtube and you get the just of it.


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## RaeganW (Jul 14, 2009)

I think there's an argument to be made for doing either first. Rally can be REALLY easy, especially AKC Novice, and you can build a lot of bad habits. You can also go into it knowing your next stop is Big O Obedience and build good ones for you and your dog.  

I can't really help you with heeling since I'm no good at it either, but I'm kind of having fun with Fanny Gott's method with Marsh. We just started yesterday, so I can't say much about how it's working.

How's the recaller class?


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## Shaina (Oct 28, 2007)

Well it's like any dog competition -- you can absolutely train it yourself...the catch is you actually need to know what you're training for. Just knowing signs (rally) or exercises (obedience) you need to execute isn't always the whole picture. But really it just depends on how detail-oriented and dedicated you are and where your strengths are. Some people do best in class, others with private lessons, others training with friends, and still others doing it mostly solo. Only way you'll know is if you try. 

Most clubs I've seen won't actually make you go through the whole junior progressive if you're truly ready to skip ahead. May need to do one class to get to know people and give them a chance to see where you are, but the instructors should, in theory, be experienced beyond the level of the class and able to make your work more difficult, then point you to an appropriate class for future work, if that's the way you want to go. Talk to them about it if you haven't already.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

Xeph said:


> Not a bad idea at all  I do. I really don't enjoy doing it on my own, but it is VERY possible to do it yourself.


I think that's where I'm at too... I don't mind doing it on my own, but it's difficult since I've never done any of it before, hahaha. I only have this forum, youtube videos, and whatever else I can find online to guide me 

But I want her to keep progressing and not get bored with our training at home.

And you've got Mirada all signed up for some rally trials soon, right? I am sure she will be amazing - you've trained her so well. And of course, you must let us know of the results 



LuckySarah said:


> Do it yourself and do rally first (its easier).
> 
> The hardest part for me is the rules since I am a newbie but watch a few videos on youtube and you get the just of it.


Yeah, I'm utilizing youtube as well, LOL. I sort of want to to obedience first because I would rather do the "more difficult" thing first, then go into rally... But I go back and forth with that...



RaeganW said:


> I think there's an argument to be made for doing either first. Rally can be REALLY easy, especially AKC Novice, and you can build a lot of bad habits. You can also go into it knowing your next stop is Big O Obedience and build good ones for you and your dog.
> 
> I can't really help you with heeling since I'm no good at it either, but I'm kind of having fun with Fanny Gott's method with Marsh. We just started yesterday, so I can't say much about how it's working.
> 
> How's the recaller class?


That's why I'm sort of afraid to do rally first. I want to just get her CD or CDX and I will be probably done with formal obedience. Then I would love to do rally and go for her RAE. I was honestly never thinking of formal obedience for her, just rally and agility, but I had a couple of "private" classes with a nearby trainer who does a bit of everything, and she actually told me that I should be able to easily put a CD or CDX on Kimma, once I get the basics down, since I've never done anything like this before. So there we go 

Oooohhh thanks for the link! I will read it over for sure! 

The recallers class is quite good! I can already see a difference in her focus to me when we train. It's all about not pushing them too hard too fast (which I was TOTALLY guilty of - hence the break from agility), and about building their drive to be with you. I'm so glad I'm doing the course, though I'm a few weeks behind LOL. Luckily I have access to it for I think the rest of the summer at least (I can't remember), so I will get it all done before that time runs out.



Shaina said:


> Well it's like any dog competition -- you can absolutely train it yourself...the catch is you actually need to know what you're training for. Just knowing signs (rally) or exercises (obedience) you need to execute isn't always the whole picture. But really it just depends on how detail-oriented and dedicated you are and where your strengths are. Some people do best in class, others with private lessons, others training with friends, and still others doing it mostly solo. Only way you'll know is if you try.
> 
> Most clubs I've seen won't actually make you go through the whole junior progressive if you're truly ready to skip ahead. May need to do one class to get to know people and give them a chance to see where you are, but the instructors should, in theory, be experienced beyond the level of the class and able to make your work more difficult, then point you to an appropriate class for future work, if that's the way you want to go. Talk to them about it if you haven't already.


I've talked to them about it. Their issue with Kimma is her boredom barking/anxiety, which they said we must work on before she can really pass out of the basic stuff. We've actually passed out of their very basic class (which is more pet dog training stuff - we took it anyway just to work on the barking, and the instructors did give us some more difficult stuff to do, which was good), but we HAVE to take an intro to competition class before we get in to higher level agility/obedience/rally. It's a requirement for the club. I'm sure if we were already winning titles we could make a case to get out of it, but all she has is her CGC. So we will not take the CGC class, and we MAY be able to be excused from another tier of basic obedience class after the intro class is finished. We will be evaluated for that after the class is done (so like mid-July). 

We may be able to begin training for rally/obedience by the end of the summer. I mean, it's not so bad doing things over again, especially because it really means we just get to proof more stuff in a new environment and around new dogs, but at home, I think we're both getting bored, hahaha.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

If you're not getting any advice on how to actually train heeling, I would opt out and do some research and expirimentation to see what works and do it yourself...at least to get started. IME a bad class is worse than no classes at all. 
I'm not sure if you're a visual learner, but I am. I have to make a point to NOT watch a not-so-great handler work their dog, because I tend to pick up on a lot of stuff I see people do. I've watched people work their dogs and had to make a point to turn my attention onto something else, because there were handling mistakes being repeated that I didn't want to pick up on  I also stare shamelessly at a GOOD handler, because I soak up the little things I see. 
Having a training plan and keeping a training notebook has done more for me than any method out there. Knowing exactly what I am looking for, having that picture fixed in my mind, and breaking it down into ridiculously small pieces and eventually chaining it together has been one of the best ways for me to teach Tag anything I have the patience to teach him. And keeping records of our training sessions helps a lot, too. Through records, I learned Tag actually works BETTER if he's been fed about 1/2 a regular meal portion as opposed to nothing at all. If he's really, REALLY hungry, he doesn't seem to be able to think about anything except eating. Auz OTOH works best if I starve him for a week or two (xD, jk obviously). But the difference is there. If I work Auz, I don't feed him his meal before the session. If I work Tag, I feed half. If you work by yourself at home, another perk (at least for Kimma) would be the not having to wait/stand around while someone else has their "turn" (on the agility course, on the rally course, or needs the instructors 1 on 1 help for something). Auz was never a good "Waiting around" dog, so keeping the sessions at home at an intense 10-15 minutes worked better for him than a lax 60 minute class. It's something to think about.


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## Pawzk9 (Jan 3, 2011)

Finkie_Mom said:


> Would it be a bad idea to try to train for obedience or rally on my own? We are in a new training club, and they require that you take some basic courses before you move on to the more advanced stuff. That makes sense in my mind, but lots of the stuff we are doing in class is stuff we already know. (We being me and Kimma, not me and Pentti)
> 
> I don't want to stop helping her to progress in her heel work and all of that, but we aren't getting direct instruction as to how to train it all. Should I just wait and keep with the basics? We are also doing a Recall course online by Susan Garrett, so it's not like we're not doing anything new... And with our taking a break from agility for a bit, I figured obedience/rally was the way to go for the time being. In the long run, I would want to keep up with training in all of those area.
> 
> ...


Was going to answer this last night, until my internet went south and I had to spend a bunch of time this morning with a nice, very patient, man from India trying to get back on line. Really, Rally is sort of developed as a "pre-Obedience" program. You are allowed to give your dog a lot more information and support than you can in formal Obedience. However, if you do the rally (which is easier and may build your confidence) work towards handling more smoothly and quietly before starting Obedience. I did get Alice's CDX and RE on the same day, but only because it took me that long to decide if I really wanted to spend money on doing Rally. AKC Rally is ultra easy. The hardest part is learning the signs. If you have APDT Rally in your area, I'd suggest that's actually a better segue into obedience, as you aren't allowed to use air cookies and multiple cues are penalized. A good book for rally training is Pam Dennison's "Click Your Way To Rally Obedience" You can print out the AKC signs from this site: http://www.gracegift.info/rally/ and a description is available on AKC's website. Many clubs/schools have drop in rally classes and show-n-gos. And of course, if you haven't done it before, it's really useful for both Rally and Obedience to have a second set of knowledgable eyes.


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

LazyGRanch713 said:


> If you're not getting any advice on how to actually train heeling, I would opt out and do some research and expirimentation to see what works and do it yourself...at least to get started. IME a bad class is worse than no classes at all.
> I'm not sure if you're a visual learner, but I am. I have to make a point to NOT watch a not-so-great handler work their dog, because I tend to pick up on a lot of stuff I see people do. I've watched people work their dogs and had to make a point to turn my attention onto something else, because there were handling mistakes being repeated that I didn't want to pick up on  I also stare shamelessly at a GOOD handler, because I soak up the little things I see.
> Having a training plan and keeping a training notebook has done more for me than any method out there. Knowing exactly what I am looking for, having that picture fixed in my mind, and breaking it down into ridiculously small pieces and eventually chaining it together has been one of the best ways for me to teach Tag anything I have the patience to teach him. And keeping records of our training sessions helps a lot, too. Through records, I learned Tag actually works BETTER if he's been fed about 1/2 a regular meal portion as opposed to nothing at all. If he's really, REALLY hungry, he doesn't seem to be able to think about anything except eating. Auz OTOH works best if I starve him for a week or two (xD, jk obviously). But the difference is there. If I work Auz, I don't feed him his meal before the session. If I work Tag, I feed half. If you work by yourself at home, another perk (at least for Kimma) would be the not having to wait/stand around while someone else has their "turn" (on the agility course, on the rally course, or needs the instructors 1 on 1 help for something). Auz was never a good "Waiting around" dog, so keeping the sessions at home at an intense 10-15 minutes worked better for him than a lax 60 minute class. It's something to think about.


A lot of her anxiety can be seen while we are waiting for out turn. If we're constantly working, she's usually fine and happy. I'm lucky in that she really loves to work. That's a great idea about feeding her half! I will have to start doing that sometimes and see if it makes a difference. And of course, keeping a planner is also a fabulous idea. 

When it comes to this stuff, I'm a visual learner. I need to see someone do it right, and then I can replicate it. We haven't even really done too much heeling work (I've not named it or anything) and I know I've already picked up bad habits, LOL. Do you have any good videos of what you would consider "good" heelwork??? I also would like to see a good finish, if you know of any videos/sites that talk about that! (I know, I know - I'm needy!!!! )



Pawzk9 said:


> Was going to answer this last night, until my internet went south and I had to spend a bunch of time this morning with a nice, very patient, man from India trying to get back on line. Really, Rally is sort of developed as a "pre-Obedience" program. You are allowed to give your dog a lot more information and support than you can in formal Obedience. However, if you do the rally (which is easier and may build your confidence) work towards handling more smoothly and quietly before starting Obedience. I did get Alice's CDX and RE on the same day, but only because it took me that long to decide if I really wanted to spend money on doing Rally. AKC Rally is ultra easy. The hardest part is learning the signs. If you have APDT Rally in your area, I'd suggest that's actually a better segue into obedience, as you aren't allowed to use air cookies and multiple cues are penalized. A good book for rally training is Pam Dennison's "Click Your Way To Rally Obedience" You can print out the AKC signs from this site: http://www.gracegift.info/rally/ and a description is available on AKC's website. Many clubs/schools have drop in rally classes and show-n-gos. And of course, if you haven't done it before, it's really useful for both Rally and Obedience to have a second set of knowledgable eyes.


Oh! Thanks for the signs! That's a huge help 

Now you're making me rethink my plan, hahaha. I'm not worried about building my confidence, honestly. And Kimma is a pretty confident dog, so I think she will be OK as well. I don't mind messing up, TBH. I would just rather do what is right for me and Kimma, whether that would be rally or obedience. I will have to see if there is APDT rally around here. But I wouldn't have anyone to critique me before I start the actual classes, which wouldn't be until late July/August at the very earliest. Unless I start filling this board with more of my training video spam 

I've thought of trying to find a show-n-go relatively soon. I was going to do an agility one about a month back, but we decided against it, as this was about the time we started our agility break anyway. I will look and see if there are any around here. Do you have any video examples of good runs for either early/beginning obedience or early/beginning rally???


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