# I need my dog to pee!



## jencam (May 28, 2009)

In the AM and before bed, I need her to empty her bladder w/o a walk.

She will hold it for 24 hours before she will concede to this.

I read today to issue the command 'go potty' when she is peeing, and then treating, but she goes 15 times on a 20 minute walk - it seems like I would just be reinforcing holding her pee to spread out instead of letting it go.

Or at most she will learn to pee 'just a little' those times we are not walking to get her treat.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

jencam said:


> I need her to empty her bladder w/o a walk.


Why? x10 limit.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

Curbside Prophet said:


> Why? x10 limit.



I am not able to take her for a 30 minute walk 5 times a day.

A 20-30 minute walk is the only time she will empty her bladder.

She has had two UTI's and I feel it may be related to this.

Plus, it must be uncomfortable for her.

For a while, she seemed to understand at night to let it go before bed but she has gone back to being stubborn.

I am especially not walking that long before bed - it interferes with me winding down to sleep, and it causes her to drink a bunch of water that she then has to hold all night!

I used to take her for an evening walk, and then later after she saw me bathe and change she seemed to understand this meant bed-time and go pee right outside!

I need that habit back.


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

I was wondering if a walk to the end of the driveway to the sidewalk patch of grass would be far enough? Not necessarily a full on walk. Some dogs need a little movement to eliminate. Maybe your dog is one of them. 

Seriously, it's ok if you take your dog for a short walk in your evening robe and slippers. No one will laugh.


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

I think you need to compromise...she wants to walk to pee, and really other than messing up your night there is nothing wriong with that. When you took her you made a promise to her that you would be patient, kind, loving and do whatever it takes to keep her healthy, since you cannot reason with her, or explain what you need than you need to pretty much suck it up...sorry if that sounds mean, even if owning a dog interferes with your life, thats really your problem not hers.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

jbsmomto1 said:


> I think you need to compromise...she wants to walk to pee, and really other than messing up your night there is nothing wriong with that. When you took her you made a promise to her that you would be patient, kind, loving and do whatever it takes to keep her healthy, since you cannot reason with her, or explain what you need than you need to pretty much suck it up...sorry if that sounds mean, even if owning a dog interferes with your life, thats really your problem not hers.


It is hot here (Texas). A long enough walk to empty her bladder will make her thirsty enough to fill it up again!

The evening walk is timed so that she can eliminate the water she drinks after before being shut in for the night.



Curbside Prophet said:


> I was wondering if a walk to the end of the driveway to the sidewalk patch of grass would be far enough? Not necessarily a full on walk. Some dogs need a little movement to eliminate. Maybe your dog is one of them.
> 
> Seriously, it's ok if you take your dog for a short walk in your evening robe and slippers. No one will laugh.


I tried that - something she consented to for a while but is now holding out for a long walk.

I got no sleep for a week when she had a UTI. I didn't want her to want to go or *try* and not be allowed.

If she continues to hold onto her urine she is inviting more infections, imo.


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

Instead of giving her another dish of water at night after that final walk, why not offer some icecubes instead? Both my dogs love their cubes.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

jbsmomto1 said:


> Instead of giving her another dish of water at night after that final walk, why not offer some icecubes instead? Both my dogs love their cubes.



1) Because she is dehydrated after a long walk and needs the water.

2) I am absolutely not going for a long walk at night.

We should not have to go 30 minutes several times a day.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

It can be harmfull for a dog to drink alot of water after a good walk, that's why some owners preffer to give the dogs two ice cubes instead of have the dog drink bucketloads of water.

Uh... well, your dog, sooner or later will have to pee, even inside your house

I just thought of something.. you could um, collect some of her pee, and pour it in a spot you'd like her to pee on, dogs usually pee on the same place they have pee'd before because their scent stays there, so maybe you can use that to your advantage.


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

OK, lets start with just a little more info first...
What kind of dog do you have?
How old is your dog?
Does she currently have a clean bill of health from the vet?

FYI, it's OK to just let her have a small amount of water so she won't have such a full bladder before bed.


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## Locke (Nov 3, 2008)

jencam said:


> We should not have to go 30 minutes several times a day.


If the dog REQUIRES it, then yes, you SHOULD have to go out 30 minutes several times a day. The majority of people on here walk their dogs for HOURS a couple times a day. Unless you have a medical condition that prevents you from taking your dog out the number of times it requires, than you're being extremely selfish and I'm not sure if owning a dog is right for you if you cannot be more flexible.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

Erick Aguilar said:


> It can be harmfull for a dog to drink alot of water after a good walk, that's why owners preffer to give the dogs two ice cubes instead of have the dog drink bucketloads of water.
> 
> Uh... well, your dog, sooner or later will have to pee, even inside your house
> 
> I just thought of something.. you could um, collect some of her pee, and pour it in a spot you'd like her to pee on, dogs usually pee on the same place they have pee'd before because their scent stays there, so maybe you can use that to your advantage.


She has held it 36 hours before. Obviously I didn't intend that - I know from when she had surgery - she peed for several minutes when she got home - they provided for indoor peeing which she will not do.

She doesn't want to pee in the same spot either - she is like a male dog - likes to spread her scent out all over. That's the problem!

Used to, she got one walk long enough to satisfy that urge, a couple of short ones to relieve some more, and then like I mentioned she'd empty at night and in the AM.



Locke said:


> If the dog REQUIRES it, then yes, you SHOULD have to go out 30 minutes several times a day. The majority of people on here walk their dogs for HOURS a couple times a day. Unless you have a medical condition that prevents you from taking your dog out the number of times it requires, than you're being extremely selfish and I'm not sure if owning a dog is right for you if you cannot be more flexible.


I hate this part of pet forums - gimme a break! 

One long walk, two short ones, and unlimited times to go down to a grassy area is quite sufficient.

There are ways to teach a dog to go on command - I was looking for advice on my particular situation regarding this.

Many people teach their dogs this for when they are on a time constraint and don't want to leave the dog shut in with a full bladder, or it's the middle of the night, freezing and raining (no bother to a part Akita, lol).

I guess you'd get up at Midnight and again at 3:AM and go for a mile-long hike in a blizzard everyday for the rest of your life to satisfy the DESIRE (not need) of a dog to spread his scent at that time and everyone else doesn't deserve to have a dog?


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

If you act this way you won't get any help, so i recommend you chill out.

Give us more information on your dog, the operation might have gone wrong with your dog.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

Dieselsmama said:


> OK, lets start with just a little more info first...
> What kind of dog do you have?
> How old is your dog?
> Does she currently have a clean bill of health from the vet?
> ...


There is no issue other than the dog wants to tinkle little bits in 50 different places and will hold her pee as long as it takes until she gets that opportunity.

It's a behavioral issue. I know you are trying to help - she had two UTIs (possible related to this) and as a result had blood work done. She is healthy. We've battled this off and on for the whole time I've had her.

I think it may be the weather - she was more willing when it was cold, but now with all the critters out and everything else, she wants to be running around all the time.

I swear she knows I want her to pee and uses it as leverage to go traveling!

Akita/Shepherd/Shar-pei (spelling?)

That is the best guess of vets and groomers - she is a pound puppy.


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

I wonder if maybe dog is smarter than you think? How much exercise does she get other than the walking? How much time do you spend, playing with her outside and inside? If you are just walking her clearly she is needing more than just walks, but for her they'll do if she has no other choice. So perhaps by not peeing when you think she should she is holding out for that walk, some interaction and some good healthy exercise. 

I promise you that she will not dehyrdate in a few hrs or even overnight as long as she has had good access to water all day long, ice cubes will be fine, they give them some water and some stimulation, nothing is more fun for my 2 than chasing icecubes around either the floor or their dish. I say it again, you CANNOT reason with a dog, they don't give a flying fig if your tired or if your sleep pattern is tested, they need their basics need met and yes that includes walking. I hear you say you don't want her to have another UTI, but if you are unwilling to help out than she will and it will be your fault for being less attentive and caring towards her needs. Dogs walk, they enjoy them, they love to stop and smell every pole, every hydrant...everything, its just what they do. they need that exercise, they need that interaction with you, it's not on a ''when it's convient for me" basis all the time. 

if you are serious that you are unwilling to walk her b/c it screws up your down time, than maybe you can either pay someone to walk her for you or rehome the dog to someone else who will pay attention the needs and desires. Walking is a basic part of a dogs life. It just is, no excuses as to why you can't do it, you promised her when you took her you would do everything you could to make her a happy girl. We walk in the rain, the snow, the heat etc etc.....and yes we have even been known to walk theblock in our jammies!!


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

Well have you consulted a Behaviourist??
Vets are just vets, and groomers are just groomers.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

What is your set up at home?..would it help to walk her around the yard on a leash?


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

Erick Aguilar said:


> If you act this way you won't get any help, so i recommend you chill out.
> 
> Give us more information on your dog, the operation might have gone wrong with your dog.



Maybe you should say that to the person who says I'm too selfish to have a dog if I don't walk her for hours every day?

I'm pretty sure she did this before the operation (spaying) which was years ago.

It's clear to me it's a behavioral thing - my neighbor's dog even picked up the habit from her and now drives her assistant crazy with it!

There is nothing medical in needing to pee little bits all over the complex (I live in a condo).

In the winter, she will empty her bladder before bed and when I first get up right at the bottom of the stairs, and then do her scent-spreading on walks.

In the Spring/summer, she refuses.



pugmom said:


> What is your set up at home?..would it help to walk her around the yard on a leash?


Condo. I've tried going around the building but when she is really stubborn, it doesn't work.



Erick Aguilar said:


> Well have you consulted a Behaviourist??
> Vets are just vets, and groomers are just groomers.


Sorry - I meant on her breed. She is a pound-pup so it has to be guessed at.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

jencam said:


> Maybe you should say that to the person who says I'm too selfish to have a dog if I don't walk her for hours every day?
> 
> I'm pretty sure she did this before the operation (spaying) which was years ago.
> 
> ...


How old is your dog...and how long has this been going on?.....I can understand why its a seasonal issue....who wants to pee out in the cold....I know I like to spend more time outside when the weather is nice

how many times a day do you want her to go....what would be your preferred schedule?


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

jencam said:


> Maybe you should say that to the person who says I'm too selfish to have a dog if I don't walk her for hours every day?
> 
> I'm pretty sure she did this before the operation (spaying) which was years ago.
> 
> ...


THAT person, is a moderator,and you better not piss the mods.
And i agree with him, you are too selfish to spend 30 minutes you probably spend laying on the couch watching T.V. rather than walking your dog daily.

This means that.. if you do solve the problem you will never walk your dog again?

You sound like you know alot about dogs.. so why not go away and try to fix it yourself instead of listening to people who actually know how to treat dogs?


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

Just to give you an idea, my guys are 10lbs and 7lbs, both dogs walk 1 hr in teh morning, 1 hr in teh afternoon, and 1 hrs at night. We also go to an eclosed area in teh evenings so they can run, romp and be dogs. So thats at minimum 3 hrs walking a day, the enclosed space can last anywhere from 30mins to 90 mins depending on when they tucker out. A shepard/akita mix is going to need more exercise than my 2 small dogs do, but they get more than yours does. I'm not saying you have to walk for hrs, but you do have a bigger mix and with bigger usually means more exercise and stimulationis needed. Do you take her to dog parks? Is she premitted to romp and play in a safe place outside of your apartment? Theother thing is I'm not sure how big your condo's are but here in my neck of canada they are pretty tiny maybe 800sq ft, which wouldn't even give my 2 small dogs enough space, yours in texas might be bigger idk...But chances are if she is only getting walks for stiumli and exercise than she is probably bored and trying to force you into a walk. is she alone all day? do you work? How many times is she out, is it just walking or do you run or bike with her?


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

jbsmomto1 said:


> I wonder if maybe dog is smarter than you think? How much exercise does she get other than the walking? How much time do you spend, playing with her outside and inside? If you are just walking her clearly she is needing more than just walks, but for her they'll do if she has no other choice. So perhaps by not peeing when you think she should she is holding out for that walk, some interaction and some good healthy exercise.
> 
> I promise you that she will not dehyrdate in a few hrs or even overnight as long as she has had good access to water all day long, ice cubes will be fine, they give them some water and some stimulation, nothing is more fun for my 2 than chasing icecubes around either the floor or their dish. I say it again, you CANNOT reason with a dog, they don't give a flying fig if your tired or if your sleep pattern is tested, they need their basics need met and yes that includes walking. I hear you say you don't want her to have another UTI, but if you are unwilling to help out than she will and it will be your fault for being less attentive and caring towards her needs. Dogs walk, they enjoy them, they love to stop and smell every pole, every hydrant...everything, its just what they do. they need that exercise, they need that interaction with you, it's not on a ''when it's convient for me" basis all the time.
> 
> if you are serious that you are unwilling to walk her b/c it screws up your down time, than maybe you can either pay someone to walk her for you or rehome the dog to someone else who will pay attention the needs and desires. Walking is a basic part of a dogs life. It just is, no excuses as to why you can't do it, you promised her when you took her you would do everything you could to make her a happy girl. We walk in the rain, the snow, the heat etc etc.....and yes we have even been known to walk theblock in our jammies!!



I understand what you are saying, but many people teach to pee on command for when they are on their way to work or late at night.

If I walk enough in the day/evening, I am not a bad pet-owner for not doing ANOTHER long walk late at night, which is not safe anyway.

Around the block would be fine with me - I'm talking about 20-30 minutes. I promised to fill her needs, not her every whim!

At night she wants to hunt possum. The evening walk is a stuggle with her trying to get into the bushes to find them - I'm not repeating this late at night.

She is holding me hostage to hunt possum - not something she needs!


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

jencam said:


> There is no issue other than the dog wants to tinkle little bits in 50 different places and will hold her pee as long as it takes until she gets that opportunity.
> 
> It's a behavioral issue. I know you are trying to help - she had two UTIs (possible related to this) and as a result had blood work done. She is healthy. We've battled this off and on for the whole time I've had her.
> 
> ...



Well, she's a larger dog then, you didn't mention how old she is? I'm guessing a median age since you didn't say she was still a puppy (under a year) or older (over 7 or 8)
A dog of the mix you describe, of a median age, would really need _at least_ a solid, brisk paced walk of a minimum of 45 minutes twice daily in order to fulfill their physical and mental need for stimulation, as well as a few "potty" trips a day. My best guess as to what's going on with your dog is two fold. First she's bored, she's not exhausting her mental stores, nor her physical ones. She's trying to get you to give her some more stimulation (subtle isn't she  ) She's also asking for it at times of day when it's a little cooler and therefore more comfortable for her to be outside. 
My best suggestion would be to start taking her for a good brisk 45. minute walk early morning (say around 6am before it gets warmer out) and again a little later in the evening (again say around 8pm or so, if it's cooling down then) intersperse some training and tricks in your walk to help tire her out mentally as well, lots of treats and rewards will help keep her focused on the walk and training instead of marking. Give it a week or two going on this very regular schedule and keep bringing her out to relieve herself at other times to her designated area. Throw a rock star party when she does eliminate outside without venturing further. Oh also, this is important, do not allow her to eat or drink for 45 mins. before and after a walk, a few ice cubes after are fine to help alleviste her thirst, but no more, that's literally asking for a bloat issue if she's tanking up as soon as you come in. You can also pick her water up a couple hrs. before bedtime.


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

Ok but she said she was spayed years ago, so how old is she? She isn't going to learn nything really easy, I'm sure she can do it, but you gotta give a little to get a little. Ya just gotta, it's the way life is. 
If she wants to hunt, than get a shortler leash, teach her to heel. Again all this will take time, you haven't said how old she is just that she has been spayed for years.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

jbsmomto1 said:


> Just to give you an idea, my guys are 10lbs and 7lbs, both dogs walk 1 hr in teh morning, 1 hr in teh afternoon, and 1 hrs at night. We also go to an eclosed area in teh evenings so they can run, romp and be dogs. So thats at minimum 3 hrs walking a day, the enclosed space can last anywhere from 30mins to 90 mins depending on when they tucker out. A shepard/akita mix is going to need more exercise than my 2 small dogs do, but they get more than yours does. I'm not saying you have to walk for hrs, but you do have a bigger mix and with bigger usually means more exercise and stimulationis needed. Do you take her to dog parks? Is she premitted to romp and play in a safe place outside of your apartment? Theother thing is I'm not sure how big your condo's are but here in my neck of canada they are pretty tiny maybe 800sq ft, which wouldn't even give my 2 small dogs enough space, yours in texas might be bigger idk...But chances are if she is only getting walks for stiumli and exercise than she is probably bored and trying to force you into a walk. is she alone all day? do you work? How many times is she out, is it just walking or do you run or bike with her?


Luckly, Akitas have moderate exercise requirements. In addition to walking, we play catch in the condo and she goes to a dark park once a week. When she is there she only plays for about 30 minutes - the rest of the time she leisurely walks around sniffing, meeting/greeting.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

How about one of those puppy pads that stimulate dogs to pee?


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

Akitas may be moderate for exercise (and I'm not sure that they are), but shepards are not. And that is only a guideline, my 7lb dog needs moderate exercise, but she wants a lot more, so she gets it. It isn't hurting anyone to walk her and she loves it. Quincy also doesn't need that much exercise but again he likes it.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

jbsmomto1 said:


> Ok but she said she was spayed years ago, so how old is she? She isn't going to learn nything really easy, I'm sure she can do it, but you gotta give a little to get a little. Ya just gotta, it's the way life is.
> If she wants to hunt, than get a shortler leash, teach her to heel. Again all this will take time, you haven't said how old she is just that she has been spayed for years.


Sorry - I thought I did say. She is 4.



Dieselsmama said:


> Well, she's a larger dog then, you didn't mention how old she is? I'm guessing a median age since you didn't say she was still a puppy (under a year) or older (over 7 or 8)
> A dog of the mix you describe, of a median age, would really need _at least_ a solid, brisk paced walk of a minimum of 45 minutes twice daily in order to fulfill their physical and mental need for stimulation, as well as a few "potty" trips a day. My best guess as to what's going on with your dog is two fold. First she's bored, she's not exhausting her mental stores, nor her physical ones. She's trying to get you to give her some more stimulation (subtle isn't she  ) She's also asking for it at times of day when it's a little cooler and therefore more comfortable for her to be outside.
> My best suggestion would be to start taking her for a good brisk 45. minute walk early morning (say around 6am before it gets warmer out) and again a little later in the evening (again say around 8pm or so, if it's cooling down then) intersperse some training and tricks in your walk to help tire her out mentally as well, lots of treats and rewards will help keep her focused on the walk and training instead of marking. Give it a week or two going on this very regular schedule and keep bringing her out to relieve herself at other times to her designated area. Throw a rock star party when she does eliminate outside without venturing further. Oh also, this is important, do not allow her to eat or drink for 45 mins. before and after a walk, a few ice cubes after are fine to help alleviste her thirst, but no more, that's literally asking for a bloat issue if she's tanking up as soon as you come in. You can also pick her water up a couple hrs. before bedtime.


I read that I should praise/treat her when she pees where I want her to, but when she only lets a little out I feel like I am reinforcing that.

I don't know if she can understand she only gets the reward for a long pee.


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## Locke (Nov 3, 2008)

I'm just saying that maybe your dog needs to go out that much, especially if she is getting UTIs. 

I understand that people cannot devote multiple hours at a time, but if the dog needs it, I think it's important to be a little more flexible.


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

jencam said:


> I read that I should praise/treat her when she pees where I want her to, but when she only lets a little out I feel like I am reinforcing that.
> 
> I don't know if she can understand she only gets the reward for a long pee.


The idea from my entire post is, when she's getting enough physical and mental stimulation at specific times of the day, she'll be better able to differentiate between when it's time to go out for a good walk, and when it's time for just a potty break. If you create a routine that is fulfilling these needs and stick to it consistently, her desire to do little pees and mark should decrease, so yes, for now treat any pee she does at these times. After a period of time, you can begin to pick a specific name for peeing at these times and use it to "mark" the behaviour linked with her reward for complying.
You really need to address the physical and mental outlets for her before you'll see much sucess in what you're wanting her to do.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

Locke said:


> I'm just saying that maybe your dog needs to go out that much, especially if she is getting UTIs.
> 
> I understand that people cannot devote multiple hours at a time, but if the dog needs it, I think it's important to be a little more flexible.


I understand. It's just not possible for me to do a long walk before bed, and upon waking, and two-three more times in the day.

I think if she is getting a long walk and two short ones that may not be all that she wants, but it is enough and I want her to eliminate for the sake of her health.

There are not even enough average homes for dogs - much less ideal. That is why I really take offense on pet forums when if I do not do everything on the planet for my dog, she would have been better left on death row where I found her. I went through the same thing on a forum over my cat because I would not concede that she has to eat all canned, all the time, or somoene should call the pet protection services (she is 18 and in marvelous health, btw!)

When I got the dog I was preparing to move into a house where she'd have a yard to eliminate at will and for a bit of exercise, though yards are pretty boring mine does enjoy my mother's when she visits.

Anyway, financial tragedy has kept me here. I have physical constraints on bird/squirrel/possum hunting for hours a day.....I do not think she is abused or neglected, though I do wish she could be out more.

I looked up dog walking - $20/day for 30 minutes. No can do.

Sometimes at night I will put her on a tether at the bottom of the stairs. When I'm not looking (or rather, she thinks I am not) she will eliminate!

She seems to enjoy that quite a bit - even though it's only 20 feet she loves to watch *whatever* dogs watch and have the freedom to go from one side of the building to another.

However it is againt HOA rules so I do not do this often.

I also take her to a neighbor-friend's house where she can play tag with his dog and get some energy out.

*It has no effect on eliminating - she wants to spread it out each and every time no matter how much exercise/play she gets.*

Only in the winter, for some reason, will she let it go at bedtime/sometimes first thing in the AM. I know the cold doesn't bother her in the least, so I don't know why this is other than not as much wildlife to go after and in addition to marking, she is using her pee as leverage to go out further!



Dieselsmama said:


> The idea from my entire post is, when she's getting enough physical and mental stimulation at specific times of the day, she'll be better able to differentiate between when it's time to go out for a good walk, and when it's time for just a potty break. If you create a routine that is fulfilling these needs and stick to it consistently, her desire to do little pees and mark should decrease, so yes, for now treat any pee she does at these times. After a period of time, you can begin to pick a specific name for peeing at these times and use it to "mark" the behaviour linked with her reward for complying.
> You really need to address the physical and mental outlets for her before you'll see much sucess in what you're wanting her to do.


I addressed the rest of your post in my reply to Locke.

Treat her only when she pees here? At the grassy spot just outside where I want her to go?


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm not sure what you want to hear.....you don't want her to hold it...but you don't want to walk her every time so she can go?

The only way I can think of is to just keep taking her outside every few hrs just like you would do if you were housebreaking a puppy.....but you said she would hold it and that worries you....but I cant think of anything to do to make her pee.....kind like you can lead a horse to water..etc...


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

pugmom said:


> I'm not sure what you want to hear.....you don't want her to hold it...but you don't want to walk her every time so she can go?
> 
> The only way I can think of is to just keep taking her outside every few hrs just like you would do if you were housebreaking a puppy.....but you said she would hold it and that worries you....but I cant think of anything to do to make her pee.....kind like you can lead a horse to water..etc...


I was hoping to hear from people who have their dogs trained to go on command. Hoping they'd have something to tell me regarding our specifics.


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

people have offered you suggestions, they have given you ideas on what can help, but yet you choose not to listen and do what needs to be done. You have an excuse for everything, you are your dog can be stubborn together because I give up, and I hope you do as well before her uniary tract and kidneys are damaged beyond repairs due the unwillingless to walk her about so she can pee, so she doesn't get any more infections and so she is a happeir dog. It's been said and I'll say it again, Dogs walk, shepards need more than 2.5 hrs a day in walking. Once a week at a dog park is not sufficient. 

until you are willing to help yourself, nobody is going to be able to help you.


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

jencam said:


> I addressed the rest of your post in my reply to Locke.
> 
> Treat her only when she pees here? At the grassy spot just outside where I want her to go?


OK, well you asked for some help and advice, I have given you what I think will work for you. 


*"I think if she is getting a long walk and two short ones that may not be all that she wants, but it is enough and I want her to eliminate for the sake of her health."*

It really isn't "enough" she's not getting the physical and mental stimulation she needs as a first step in solving your problem. Truly solving your problem necessitates getting her set up in a consistent routine that meets her needs. She's making it blatently obvious she needs more stimulation and until her needs are met, I'm afraid you won't have a lot of sucess in addressing your problem. Simply put, your problem and her problem are different things. If you're unwilling/unable to address her issue, your stalemate continues on


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## lis (May 21, 2009)

Right now, I am having similar issues with my puppy. She was doing so well with peeing on command... until today. I'm hoping today is just an off day... and not too much of a set back. 

We as well live in a condo, and completely understand having to take your dog for a walk to eliminate. There are quite a few dogs in our building, and that means there is SO much to smell. She is more interested in smelling than going pee. Its frustrating because you know that first thing in the morning, the dog needs to pee.When initially teaching Lucy how to pee on command, we would say 'go pee' when she would finally go pee, and we said it a few times while she was doing so. After the was done, we would praise her and praise her, and then give her a little treat. We would also take her to the exact same spot every time, and this seemed to work as well. 

This has worked everyday for the past few weeks, until today. She is just a puppy and does not seem to enjoy the rain, and today and yesterday it has been pouring. We will be heading out for our final pee of the day soon, and cross your fingers for me that it works this time!  Our biggest issue is that we adopted her from a local shelter, and she has a (healing) broken femur, so we are unable to take her for a long walk at all.


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

jencam said:


> I was hoping to hear from people who have their dogs trained to go on command. Hoping they'd have something to tell me regarding our specifics.


People who have their dogs trained to go on command have made the effort to invest in their dogs training, training is only sucessful when you're able to address roadblocks such as the ones you're encountering with productive solutions. Part of that includes listening to advice from folks who have dealt with the issue sucessfully and being willing to adjust your approach. There is no magic wand unfortunatly.


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## ioreks_mom (Oct 1, 2008)

we had a problem with iorek for a while where he would refuse to pee in the backyard. i know he was holding out for walks (not that he doesn't get them!). he went as long as 14 hours without peeing. i would just take him for a little walk (10 mins) before bed until he did go. sometimes he still refused and then i did get up at 3 am to take him out (i still do if he wakes me up at night). i also brought him to daycare during the day so i knew that he was going when i was at work. i don't know how he started going in the backyard again but i do know that when he did go i rewarded like nuts. he LOVES to run and play so when he would pee i would give the command "do your pee" while he was peeing and then when he was done i would run and jump around like a nut with him. now it is great, i take him out to the spot in the backyard where i want him to go and i say "do your pee" and he does.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

lis said:


> Right now, I am having similar issues with my puppy. She was doing so well with peeing on command... until today. I'm hoping today is just an off day... and not too much of a set back.
> 
> We as well live in a condo, and completely understand having to take your dog for a walk to eliminate. There are quite a few dogs in our building, and that means there is SO much to smell. She is more interested in smelling than going pee. Its frustrating because you know that first thing in the morning, the dog needs to pee.When initially teaching Lucy how to pee on command, we would say 'go pee' when she would finally go pee, and we said it a few times while she was doing so. After the was done, we would praise her and praise her, and then give her a little treat. We would also take her to the exact same spot every time, and this seemed to work as well.
> 
> This has worked everyday for the past few weeks, until today. She is just a puppy and does not seem to enjoy the rain, and today and yesterday it has been pouring. We will be heading out for our final pee of the day soon, and cross your fingers for me that it works this time!  Our biggest issue is that we adopted her from a local shelter, and she has a (healing) broken femur, so we are unable to take her for a long walk at all.


Poor baby! Bless you for adopting her. I am sure rain is throwing her off - I was surpirsed that it didn't affect mine in the least, because I believe it does most dogs, at least at first.


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## tigress (Feb 6, 2008)

jencam said:


> In the AM and before bed, I need her to empty her bladder w/o a walk.
> 
> She will hold it for 24 hours before she will concede to this.
> 
> ...


Not going to be helpful as I don't know how to fix this but glad I'm not the only one who has a dog that won't pee at a certain time.

All my friends think I'm crazy for having to get some one to let my dog out while I am at work cause my dog will go in the morning, and then will not go again before 11 or 12 (seriously she will not go unless I take her on a long walk if it hasn't reached 11 or 12 pm). Which causes problems sometimes when I go to work at 10 am and won't come back for 8 hours and she will not have peed since 6:30 am.

Heh, and I think your dog and my dog have some similar habits as my dog hates going in the same spot. That whole thing about marking her spot, she gets bored of peeing in the same spot and I can tell when she's really wanting to go elsewhere.

As for the people bitching at OP for not taking advice, I can kinda see her point. Many posts who initially posted just told her to suck it up. Some I think I could see where they were going but I could also see how it could be construed as just suck it up (I am guessing they were trying tos ay maybe excercise the dog more during the day so she gets some stimulation besides the walks?). One post looked like it was giving advice that she wanted (how to train the dog to pee on command) but that happened after she started defending herself from people telling her she shouldn't have a dog cause she didn't want to walk it right before she went to bed (I honestly can fully understand her point, I can't go to bed if I just went on a 30 minute walk, I have to have a wind down period).

As for training on command, I hate to say it but I know at least one book I read (Housetraining for Dummies) says that not every dog will take to learning to go on command. Mine has not but usually she figures out if I keep her in one spot on a leash I want her to go so usually I just have to stand with her a few minutes and she'll go. Every now and then she gets obstinate, but it usually works (except if it is around 10 am in the morning and she already went that morning  I don't even try anymore in that circumstance. It just ends up frustrating me).


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

Dieselsmama said:


> People who have their dogs trained to go on command have made the effort to invest in their dogs training, training is only sucessful when you're able to address roadblocks such as the ones you're encountering with productive solutions. Part of that includes listening to advice from folks who have dealt with the issue sucessfully and being willing to adjust your approach. There is no magic wand unfortunatly.


I agree with you - however most of the advice has been to cater to the dog 100% and do as many long walks as it takes per day/night to let her mark to her heart's content.

I seriously doubt most people are in a position to do that and my desire to have her eliminate before bed w/o a long walk is reasonable.

She does know that is expected/desired.

I dislike the method I used to teach it to her, though, and don't want to repeat.

I just let her hold it if that was her choice. Every time she asked to go out, I took her to her spot and counted backwards from 10.

She learned she was going back in on 'one' and started going there; THEN I took her on a walk.

The goal was to teach her to pee on command and when approporiate a walk was her reward (in addition to praise and sometimes treats) OR she was more comfortable in the instances of being stuck in while I was gone/asleep.

I am unwilling to do that again because I do not know the source of the UTI's but holding urine can't help.

She also has a short route and a medium route. These are set to where she knows when we start how much time/space she has to spread out her elimination.

(on a long walk, I let her decide which way to go and she knows she has as much time as she wants).

Usually if she will not go at the designated spot I will give in and go on the short route, or even medium route, even if I'm bathed and in my jammies!

All I am saying is I cannot go on a long walk every night just before bed.


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## lis (May 21, 2009)

jencam said:


> I am sure rain is throwing her off - I was surpirsed that it didn't affect mine in the least, because I believe it does most dogs, at least at first.


Yea... my old dog (which lives with my parents in NS) does not like rain... but she still goes when she needs to.. lol I'm sure Lucy will get over this.... just frustrating.. as you can imagine. Thankfully the weekend is supposed to be full of sunshine. 

My boyfriends parents have a dog that likes to pee every 10 steps during a walk, it doesnt matter how many times she has pee'd during the day.... it is inevitable that she will pee 50 times during a walk. However, his mom has been able to make her pee on command. Yet, that being said, i believe it is a bit different when you live in a condo, because when you put a leash on your dog, she probably automatically thinks your going for a walk, because you have to physically take her out yourself. Whereas in a house, they are able to learn the difference because you just let them out on a leed or in a fenced yard to do their business.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

tigress said:


> Not going to be helpful as I don't know how to fix this but glad I'm not the only one who has a dog that won't pee at a certain time.
> 
> All my friends think I'm crazy for having to get some one to let my dog out while I am at work cause my dog will go in the morning, and then will not go again before 11 or 12 (seriously she will not go unless I take her on a long walk if it hasn't reached 11 or 12 pm). Which causes problems sometimes when I go to work at 10 am and won't come back for 8 hours and she will not have peed since 6:30 am.
> 
> ...


That person takes your dog for a walk or just lets him out to go? He won't even when you come home from work - he holds it until late?

Thank you for your other remarks - as I said in my last post 'just do what the dog wants' has been the majority of the responses.

It's not that I'm unwilling to do without wind-down time, I simply cannot do any activity and then leap into bed.

AND this is Texas - I am not getting into bed sweaty (gross).

SO if we do a long walk, then I have to bathe, then wind down to sleep,,,,,this is just elongating the time before I get up and take her out again!


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## Dieselsmama (Apr 1, 2007)

*I agree with you - however most of the advice has been to cater to the dog 100% and do as many long walks as it takes per day/night to let her mark to her heart's content.
I seriously doubt most people are in a position to do that and my desire to have her eliminate before bed w/o a long walk is reasonable.*

I never said this, I've said there's a problem, and obviously you're not getting anywhere approaching it in the manner you have. I've suggested 2 walks per day of a minimum of 45 mins. because of where you live and how hot it is there I've recommended doing it during the cooler morning and later evening hours. It's about 9:30 PM where you are right now so an 8 o'clock walk seems like it isn't "right before" bed for you.

I can really only say this same thing so many different ways, unless you address her boredom and excess energy level first, you'll likely have little sucess with what YOU desire, therefore your expectations would be UNreasonable.
Really if your expectation was reasonable you'd not be having the issue in the first place.

Here's another option for expending her energy, if it's too hot to go out for a walk, you could join an evening obedience class that's held indoors, or you could spend that 45 minutes at a local pet store where dogs are welcome socializing and working on training. On nights when there wasn't class you could be working on the class homework


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

lis said:


> Yea... my old dog (which lives with my parents in NS) does not like rain... but she still goes when she needs to.. lol I'm sure Lucy will get over this.... just frustrating.. as you can imagine. Thankfully the weekend is supposed to be full of sunshine.
> 
> My boyfriends parents have a dog that likes to pee every 10 steps during a walk, it doesnt matter how many times she has pee'd during the day.... it is inevitable that she will pee 50 times during a walk. However, his mom has been able to make her pee on command. Yet, that being said, i believe it is a bit different when you live in a condo, because when you put a leash on your dog, she probably automatically thinks your going for a walk, because you have to physically take her out yourself. Whereas in a house, they are able to learn the difference because you just let them out on a leed or in a fenced yard to do their business.



Retractable leash = we are going to walk as long as you want.

Regular leash = short or medium walk; get business done in that time.

Believe it or not she knows that toothbrushing is my final bedtime activity and that 'to the bottom of the stairs' is it and will (usually) go.

She just goes through these stubborn times......


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

I don't think anyone is saying "do what every the dog wants'....but your situation is more difficult then most because of you dogs medical condition....

you are going to have to find a compromise.......you cant go to sleep after walking and your dog can't hold it for a few extra hours at night because of its uti issue.....something has to give

maybe you can walk the dog 2hrs before bed...then get up an hour earlier to let him out in the am?


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

Dieselsmama said:


> *I agree with you - however most of the advice has been to cater to the dog 100% and do as many long walks as it takes per day/night to let her mark to her heart's content.
> I seriously doubt most people are in a position to do that and my desire to have her eliminate before bed w/o a long walk is reasonable.*
> 
> I never said this, I've said there's a problem, and obviously you're not getting anywhere approaching it in the manner you have. I've suggested 2 walks per day of a minimum of 45 mins. because of where you live and how hot it is there I've recommended doing it during the cooler morning and later evening hours. It's about 9:30 PM where you are right now so an 8 o'clock walk seems like it isn't "right before" bed for you.
> ...


Yes, your advice was very constructive. We just disagree that enough walking/other activity will solve it completely. 

After 4 years with her in different environments and varying activity levels, one thing is consistent and that is she doesn't want to eliminate close to home.

Hopefully I can find some hints and tricks - thanks for the reminder that I need to have her out as much as possible in the day for lots of reasons, not just elimination.


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## lis (May 21, 2009)

I really hope you and your puppy can work this out. I imagine its both stressful on you and her!!!  I'm sure there must be some tricks or something that will help you.... sorry I couldn't help!!


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

pugmom said:


> I don't think anyone is saying "do what every the dog wants'....but your situation is more difficult then most because of you dogs medical condition....
> 
> you are going to have to find a compromise.......you cant go to sleep after walking and your dog can't hold it for a few extra hours at night because of its uti issue.....something has to give
> 
> maybe you can walk the dog 2hrs before bed...then get up an hour earlier to let him out in the am?


She'll hold it in the AM too until we go for a walk.

She wants to save it all for marking. This is her town, lol.

Maybe she would be OK with the two hour before bed thing, but it makes *me* uncomfotable.

This dog will hold pee without even whining for 24 hours. I cannot rely on her to know when she needs to.

I feel better about her health when she goes right before bed.

Good or bad, right or wrong, my goal here is to see if I can get her to go next to the house first thing in the AM and last thing in the PM.

I guess treats and praise for doing so is all I can try - and I guess that applies even if she only goes a little, but to me that encourages her to keep doing tiny pees to get more treats!



lis said:


> I really hope you and your puppy can work this out. I imagine its both stressful on you and her!!!  I'm sure there must be some tricks or something that will help you.... sorry I couldn't help!!


Thank you - I hope your puppy heals fast!


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## Curbside Prophet (Apr 28, 2006)

One of these might work, but reading the reviews it looks like hit or miss.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

We've trained our dog to go at night before bed by giving her a little bit of peanut butter (her favorite thing in the world) in a Kong after she goes potty. We ask her to get her Kong, she brings it, we put the peanut butter in it, and then tell her we're going outside for potty. Once she goes, she runs to her bed and waits for us to give her the kong. She never fails to go because she's so motivated to get the peanut butter. Giving her an over the top treat for going really worked for us. 

RE the morning pee, our dog will occasionally refuse to go as well, but I think our situation has more to do with her being in a new stimulating environment. If she's too distracted (think horses, lots of wildlife - oh my!), she just won't pee. 

I think the suggestion to treat this like a new potty training situation is a good one. And I would put some time distance between the morning and evening pee training and the walks, i.e. don't set your dog up to think that peeing = walk. Put her on a schedule where she goes potty in the a.m. then an hour later gets her long walk. At night, same thing -- long walk, then last pee at night with a great treat. If she knows that she'll get the walks she craves on the same schedule (your schedule), maybe she'll stop holding her pee to get them. 

So a new routine + potty training 101 + favorite reward for peeing could do it. Worth a try! I know how frustrating it is to worry about your dog not peeing while still trying to do what you need to do (work, chores, etc.).

Good luck and let us know how it goes.


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## yuugi (May 6, 2009)

We have very harsh winters here in Finland and sometimes i am not able to walk her in certain days. Bearing this in mind i tought her how to eliminate on cue and it has helped alot.

Basically whenever your dog starts doing her business you give her the command.I use "Go Potty". When she was done she was praised alot and i given a little piece of treat. By 3 months old she started going on cue. 

I also rewarded her with a walk each and every time she peed or pooped. At the time when she was a little puppy i took her out every hour so that was alot of reward walking. Like this she started eliminating really fast so she could go on a walk. 

After awhile the harsh winter started and i couldn't go for a walk each time she did her business, i only went for a half an hour walk a day and exercised her indoors instead. She also hit adolescence and started being stubborn and not going when i asked her to. I knew it was stubborness because she would not eliminate during the walk, and would do it inside the house, each and every time.

At this moment i went back to Potty training basics and i would crate her if she did not eliminate and tried again after an hour or so. 
After a month of being consistent with this, she only refuses to go once or twice in a week. It's getting much better again, phew. 

So basically i tought her how to eliminate on cue and rewarded her with a walk each and every time she did something. Now, if you want this to work you'll have to do alot of walking at first, even if just for 5 minutes. But your dog needs to associate the "going potty" with a nice little walk afterwards. If she doesn't do it just crate her, she will eventually need to go.


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## tigress (Feb 6, 2008)

Curbside Prophet said:


> One of these might work, but reading the reviews it looks like hit or miss.


Heh, that works if your dog likes to go in the same spot (like smelling her pee cues her to go there).

Judging from what OP said, it won't work at all for her. I tried it for my dog when I first housetrained her, she never went on it or near it once. And she also has the I don't like going pee in the same spot issue.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

winniec777 said:


> We've trained our dog to go at night before bed by giving her a little bit of peanut butter (her favorite thing in the world) in a Kong after she goes potty. We ask her to get her Kong, she brings it, we put the peanut butter in it, and then tell her we're going outside for potty. Once she goes, she runs to her bed and waits for us to give her the kong. She never fails to go because she's so motivated to get the peanut butter. Giving her an over the top treat for going really worked for us.
> 
> RE the morning pee, our dog will occasionally refuse to go as well, but I think our situation has more to do with her being in a new stimulating environment. If she's too distracted (think horses, lots of wildlife - oh my!), she just won't pee.
> 
> ...


I think the distraction element has a lot to do with it - she sees the birds and squirells and wants to go after them - potty is the last thing on her mind. A short walk generally works for that because she gets her excitement out of the way enough to remember she needs to!

I may need to stay up a little later taking her down several times until she goes and trying the uber-good treat when she does. Thanks

She's so used to me giving in and walking she might have to go one night holding it, but hopefully that will not hurt her but show that rules have changed.


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## yuugi (May 6, 2009)

Well that's the thing for me. If she is distracted and doesn't listen to me i just take her back inside and crate her for an hour. 
She only gets to play around or go for a walk after she has done her business. She learned that potty time is potty time and play time is play time. 

If you take yours for a walk or let her play before she goes, then she will never go unless you walk her. You need to reward her with playtime only after she does her business. 
That's the only way you get your dog to go without a walk.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

yuugi said:


> Well that's the thing for me. If she is distracted and doesn't listen to me i just take her back inside and crate her for an hour.
> She only gets to play around or go for a walk after she has done her business. She learned that potty time is potty time and play time is play time.
> 
> If you take yours for a walk or let her play before she goes, then she will never go unless you walk her. You need to reward her with playtime only after she does her business.
> That's the only way you get your dog to go without a walk.


That is how I taught her the first time, but now it's hard when I'm worried about UTI....I don't know why she gets them, but it can't help to hold urine. (She had two in three months).

I stayed up late last night - she last voided around 1:30 AM. It is 3M and we have gone down several times - no cigar. She is whining for a walk.

If she had peed, we'd be on an afternoon walk by now!

Anyway - she can hold it until tonight playing this game and it makes we worry too much!

It's a difficult balancing act becuase it I don't teach her this it will result in other times she is forced to hold.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Mine go on command. They learned early by my saying "go potty!" while they were going, so they connected the command to what they were doing. When they go AT ALL, I praise profusely, and then their reward IS the walk that comes after. If they refuse to go at the time, they go straight back inside, and we try again shortly after. If this means that while I am training, I have to go outside 10 times in the course of an hour, then so be it. It's not PERMANENT. No potty = No walk. 

Also, I don't use different leashes for when I'm doing a quick outing vs. a long walk. Dogs are way too smart and many can tell the difference. I use the same type of leash for EVERY outing.


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## ValtheAussie (Apr 19, 2009)

I am having a time of it because when my last dog was a puppy I didn't have issues with arthritis that I have now. Fifteen years makes a big difference in health issues.

I wish I could walk my dog as long as I think he would like, but I have issues with painful joints. 

My old girl went outside in the backyard with no trouble, but I am having more troubles with my little guy than I thought I would.


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

Cheetah said:


> Mine go on command. They learned early by my saying "go potty!" while they were going, so they connected the command to what they were doing. When they go AT ALL, I praise profusely, and then their reward IS the walk that comes after. If they refuse to go at the time, they go straight back inside, and we try again shortly after. If this means that while I am training, I have to go outside 10 times in the course of an hour, then so be it. It's not PERMANENT. No potty = No walk.
> 
> Also, I don't use different leashes for when I'm doing a quick outing vs. a long walk. Dogs are way too smart and many can tell the difference. I use the same type of leash for EVERY outing.


I like her knowing the difference, and she also knows the route no matter the leash.

Usually, her knowing this means she voids appropriately for the length.

long walk = marking all she wants.

medium walk = 2-3 stops

short walk = pick a place and move on!

I'm doing the first half of your post - it's hard, but I'm doing it.



Cheetah said:


> Mine go on command. They learned early by my saying "go potty!" while they were going, so they connected the command to what they were doing. When they go AT ALL, I praise profusely, and then their reward IS the walk that comes after. If they refuse to go at the time, they go straight back inside, and we try again shortly after. If this means that while I am training, I have to go outside 10 times in the course of an hour, then so be it. It's not PERMANENT. No potty = No walk.
> 
> Also, I don't use different leashes for when I'm doing a quick outing vs. a long walk. Dogs are way too smart and many can tell the difference. I use the same type of leash for EVERY outing.


One question - if she goes only a little and I treat her and then go for a walk,,,,,,she'll still save most of it for marking when my whole point is I want her to empty!

this is more complicated than it seems, lol.

After 18 hours, she finally went and I treated and praised her but no walk yet as I wasn't prepared for one.

I think maybe I will let the walk be totally unconnected,,,,,,,,


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## Straygirl (Feb 10, 2009)

I only skimmed through the 3 pages of posts here so forgive me if I am repeating someone, but here is what I would do....

Use 2 different commands when you get the leash to go outside. One being "let's go walk" or something like that. Use this for when you intend a long walk. The other command something like "pee time" for when you want a 5 minute pee break. 

On the 5 minutes pee breaks, take her out for 5 minutes and 5 minutes only. If she pees great, treat, praise, click, whatever you do make it FABULOUS. If no pee, fine, back in the house. Do these 5 minute pee breaks when you KNOW she has to go. If she doesn't go in 5 minutes, back in, then try again in 20 minutes or so. No long walks until she pees on a 5 minute break.


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## BobSD (Feb 1, 2008)

Well I have decided to make a response, oh, oh, pugmon may want hit me with a crowbar, MRC, May kick me out, Eric drop some very aristocratic lingo. But here goes.

It does get very uncomfortable in Texas, even at night, that is the main reason I live in cold country, SD. I am assuning you are a female, and even not, walking out late at night can be an intro to a mugging, or worst. I also feel you in in some kind of building complex, no back yard?

Anyways you have done an excelant job thus far and no one here has to say, you not doing enough. In the real world, if you have a job to go to in the morniing the dog definitely comes second. If the dog wants food, and visits to the vet, some one must pay. You also avoided disowning the dog, so I sense a very close relationship. You also do not want urine smell through out the house. We all may be able to appreciate that.


You have options, crating when you go to bed, dogy diapers, closing off an area that is easy to clean. But do not go for long walks at night, or your dog may end up going to a shelter, because you are no longer living! 

I really hope things work out for you, because obviously you are trying your best, and be rational at the same time. Good Luck


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## jencam (May 28, 2009)

This is funny - she has no idea yet why she is getting treats after peeing,,,,,the look on her face is so funny, like 'what is this for? kewl.......'


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## lis (May 21, 2009)

lol thats good tho. She'll quickly learn that shes going to get a treat each time, and soon she will become to expect it. I know Lucy LOVES the idea of getting treats for doing something she needs to do anyway!!


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