# Dog growled at my 5-year-old tonight...



## mathbox20girl (Aug 19, 2007)

We got a 9-month-old dog from a shelter last week. I knew he'd been returned once..I posted about his "fearful" behavior on the health thread. The last family returned him because he wasn't playful enough for their kids..at least that's what we were told. He spent the first few days with us acting like he was on the verge of death, and he is absolutely, positively TERRIFIED of everything. 

He has obviously never, ever been socialized a bit in his entire 9 months. He's afraid of doors, cars, birds, cats, people, OUTSIDE, INSIDE..you name it. He was abandoned at a puppy swap by some stupid backyard breeder who thought it would be fun to breed labradoodles and then couldn't sell them for the high price he'd seen advertised, I'm sure.

The past couple of days the dog has started coming around..he seems to like people in general..and we no longer have to forcibly pick him up to make him go outside to potty or forcibly pick him up to get him out of the car.

Oddly enough though he shows some signs of dominance..he will refuse to get in his crate, which you'd think would make him feel safe...It takes me a good while to force him in. He turns that 46lbs of body weight into dead weight. He will hop on the bed, or sofa, moments before he knows I'm going to and then refuse to move. He will act like he doesn't even know his name. For the first few days I didn't THINK he DID know it.  

He jumps when a door shuts, when someone walks by, when the computer makes a noise, when the phone rings, when a car goes by...but he's getting better. He'd go off & hide if I'd let him. He's TERRIFIED of being outside..we go out to potty and then RIGHT back in. He could care less about playing or running.  He has, however, started playing at night after the kids go to bed. He'll run through the house, jump & hurdle the furniture..and act doggy! He loves his chew toys and I'm sure they're the first ones he's ever owned in his life. He loves his raw hide, his raggedy animal, his stuffed squirrel. He acts happy when people pay attention to him and has never acted aggressive towards our neighbors, their dogs, or strangers. He's seen the vet on more than one occasion and he's healthy except for the worms he had when we first got him. I relaxed once he started playing and showing signs of life...he's still terrified of everything, but starting to get excited about going for car rides, and although he gets out of the car and runs STRAIGHT to the front door...he doesn't have to be forcibly removed. LOL

HOWEVER...last night he did a little stand off with one of our kittens, whom he's previously ignored or been terrified of. He growled and barked and did his dominance thing..and I scolded him and he retreated. 

Tonight I was in the kitchen and he did the same thing to my 5-year-old...Now I have to say that I have NEVER seen him act aggressive..but he is just now starting to act like anything. I know he tries to dominate me by his selective hearing, refusing to get up and walk, refusing to move for me, etc. When we go for walks he will step in front of me EVERY STEP like he has a strong herding instinct or something. He's never been on a leash or been out of a kennel before, so he needs some obedience and training. I figured we'd get to that once he socialized a bit. ?????????? I mean it would be hard to take him to obedience classes when he's terrified of every single noise and smell and sight. 

Of course everyone is freaking out now..saying I need to find another home for him. My mom says an undersocialized dog, with herding & dominance tendencies, who is terrified of everything and starts growling at your kids a week AFTER you have him is a dog bite waiting to happen. I would hate for him to have a dog bite on his record as I know he would NEVER get adopted...and as fearful as he is I know I'd have an impossible time finding a home for him. 

That being said, my child is my top priority. My 10 year old seems to get along with him fine...but he more or less has ignored the other 2 kids. He will not play around them though and only gets playful at night. My kids are very well educated in dog safety as our neighbor has a very fearful & aggressive german shepherd, so she knows not to approach a strange dog, a sleeping dog, an eating dog, etc...it really, REALLY bothers me that he'd growl and bark at her.  

What really gets me is that why NOW? Why not a week ago when he didn't know us and she got around him? He was afraid but didn't show aggression or dominance. (Just dominance to me..the first night home he INSISTED he got my bed, and he refused to move..I picked him up and he got right back on, and pushed against me all night.) Dominant, or bed hog?  

Two nights ago he showed some aggression towards one of our cats...who are just kittens. He growled and barked and carried on until I scolded him, and then he retreated. He keeps doing it and I keep trying to keep them separated. I don't want to put him outside because he needs socialization, and he is TERRIFIED of being outside. We try to spend a few hours outside every day together, and he hasn't made any progress yet but I figure in time.

Tonight I thought maybe he was playing with the kittens, or trying to. They're not really interested in playing with a giant 9-month-old dog. He lunged at them but w/o growling...so who knows?

So because of his growling at my daughter, I am afraid to leave him alone with her. I cannot stand the thought of giving up on this dog..but what if he's going to be fearful of small children indefinitely? I can't have a dog that I can't leave alone with my kids even long enough so I can potty. 

Does anyone have any suggestions? I live in a very remote rural area and there are no obedience classes..even if I could get his scaredy-cat doggy butt there. 

If he bites my daughter, I'll never forgive myself for keeping a dog that SHOWED me he wasn't comfortable around children. I keep thinking what if it was a fluke...but then the logical side of me says it only takes one second for him to bite her. 

He's adorable..white,fluffy, with the biggest brown eyes and black nose you've ever seen, and when he plays he just steals your heart. I think of all the months of lonliness and fear and heartache this dog has known, and I realize how attached I am already. He already loves me and is attached to me..if he can't find me he begins to worry. He's had so much abandonment over his short 9 months. It's so not fair to him. It's been so much work...beyond my wildest imagination..trying to get him to stop being afraid of the CAR even has a huge obstacle; I have to take him everywhere with us.. and worry constantly about how he's going to react to everything. But he has made improvements in just a week. 

Please offer suggestions to me if you have them. I'm prepared to face the awful fact that we may not be the right family for him..that he might need a family w/o children or with older children. If this doesn't work out for us, I do NOT want to try to foster or adopt another dog. I want this dog, and I want it to work out, but I don't want to be stupid and place myself, the dog, or my child at further stress or danger. If he bit my child or someone else's...and I was asked if he'd ever growled or shown aggression at children before, I'd have to say yes, that I knew he was uncomfortable around small children at least, but okay with my older one.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

DO NOT scold for growling!!! A growl is a warning, NOT dominance. Would you rather he bit without warning and sentenced himself to be euthinized? I've seen too many dogs that have had the warning system punished out of them by human misunderstanding. They end up *DEAD* !!!! Then ther is the fact that he could very well associate teh punishment with the CHILD, not the growling which could cause hoim to fear the child more and feel he has to defend himself. It sounds like you really want to help him, so lets not make annmore backwards steps.

What was your 5 year old doing when the dog growled at her? I'm not blaming your kid, but it will help all here to help you and your dog. 



> So because of his growling at my daughter, I am afraid to leave him alone with her


A five year old (or 10 year old) should NEVER be unattended with ANY dog, too much can happen. For now control the situation and keep the dog separate from the child(ren). Here's a good article on child safety with dogs

http://www.doggonesafe.com/

http://www.livingwithkidsanddogs.com/

Now for the facts, your dog is fearful, the fearful dog is a ticking timebomb. You need to get a pro involved ASAP. I'll put links in to help you find a qualified, CERTIFIED trainer that will use methods that will boost your dogs confidence levels and help him trust you as his BENEVOLENT leader, not a DOMINANT bully that he has to fear more. In the mean time I'll give you a couple good book reccomendations to help you work onthe problem

Reccomended Reading

HOW TO RIGHT A DOG GONE WRONG: A ROADMAP FOR REHABILITATING AGGRESSIVE DOGS
by Pamela Dennison (because fear and aggression have the same working protocols) 

ON TALKING TERMS WITH DOGS: CALMING SIGNALS 2ND. ED.
by Turid Rugaas 

This will help you and your family learn what his body means and you can use some of the techniques to give HIM sinals that you mean no harm. 

HELP FOR YOUR FEARFUL DOG: A STEP-BY-STEP GUIDE TO HELPING YOUR DOG CONQUER HIS FEARS
by Nicole Wilde 

Here are some resources for finding a trainer/behaviorist. Many will come to to your home and evaluate your dog and get you started.

http://www.iaabc.org/consultant_locator_dogs.htm

http://www.apdt.com/po/ts/default.aspx


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

I read your last post, the one in the health thread about him being so stand-offish and terrified of everything... but I did not want to post because of putting your hopes down. The first thing I thought of when I read that was the incident with my grandmothers Standard Poodle mix. She was the same way, very scared of anything, very stand-offish, but in the first 5 weeks of having her she bit my little 7 year old cousin straight on the face and she required 13 stitches. What happened was my cousin had picked up a toy that was about 8 feet away from Lola (the dog) and she just came and attacked with no warning.

Lola was returned to the Humane Society, and was put to sleep after additional behavioural tests were done. She was not suitable for adoption. 

I am very deeply sorry, but if a new dog so much as growled at a child of mine (which i do not have any right now) I would not have it in my household again. I would take it to a humane society. My childrens safety would completely come first. There is no saying what an unpredictable and unsocialized dog will do, especially one that is not comfortable in any circumstance. I'm very sorry mathbox20girl... that is my input on it.
Please take care and good luck with any decision you make.
Nessa and Guera


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Oh, one other thing, get him to the vet and get a T4 thyroid test and a tick titer done. T4 is not the in house, but one which has to be sent out. If he has an underlying health problem it needs to be corrected before progress will be seen behaviorally, yu might also ask about some puppy prozac to help calm him down and relieve his anxiety in the mean time.



chul3l3ies1126 said:


> What happened was my cousin had picked up a toy that was about 8 feet away from Lola (the dog) and she just came and attacked with no warning.


This dog has given warning, therefore I feel there is still hope if the right steps are taken.


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## mathbox20girl (Aug 19, 2007)

Carla~Thank you so much for the links and for responding. I had just done a search and found those pages and bookmarked them. I am very impressed with that information and would like for all 3 of my children to see the photos and read through that with me. 

This was probably, aside from my trips to the restroom, the first time I wasn't in the room with her & the dog for any amt of time. I'm thinking it wouldn't have happened if I'd been in here as he seems to gain a sense of calm and reassurance when I'm with him. I'm not sure that my idea of socializing him is helping him if I'm only teaching him to be that dependent on me. The information I've read online is very conflicting and confusing at best. I admit that I feel bad for him, for as much as he's been alone, so I try to keep him around us constantly except for the times that he lets me know he needs/wants to be alone. (And he does show me with his body language.)


I did not see the incident happen in the beginning, but my older child was on the sofa and said the dog started growling as the child walked around in the room (and not just close to him.) When she continued walking, he began barking. I cannot believe that I never, ever thought of the consequences of scolding him for growling. I suppose I haven't, technically..as he barked AFTER the growling..but still,he did give warning first like he is supposed to and it is our job to heed that warning. Thank you for sharing that view with me...I can see what you mean so plainly now. 

The kids know that his bed is HIS place and they are never to approach him there..but when he's walking around they can read his body language and tell if he wants attention from them. It just surprises me that he did this as I KNOW he followed her around this morning. I kept following HIM because I wasn't at ease with him wanting to be near her so much, but he never acted aggressive. It was just the 3 of us all day today as the other 2 were in school. She feeds him treats, helps walk him, etc and he has NEVER acted the LEAST bit growly. He does try to dominate all 3 kids...he will practically sit on them in the car. He thinks the back seat is his and if one of them sits there, he'll try his hardest to sit as close to them as possible,pushing and leaning. At first I thought "how sweet..he wants to be close to someone." I'm so naive.

I'm going to all my vet tomorrow and see if they know of anyone that could work with us ASAP. I'm actually very pleased with the progress he has made so far with us as far as overcoming his fear. He may never be completely fear-free, but in just a week he's already discovering that not all things are bad. He's such a joy to work with and I think this dog has a LOT of potential. 

Oh, and we love him. We absolutely adore him. I hope with some proper training, love, patience, and time he could turn out to be THE dog everyone wishes they had. He's a doll.


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

cshellenberger said:


> Oh, one other thing, get him to the vet and get a T4 thyroid test and a tick titer done. T4 is not the in house, but one which has to be sent out. If he has an underlying health problem it needs to be corrected before progress will be seen behaviorally, yu might also ask about some puppy prozac to help calm him down and relieve his anxiety in the mean time.
> 
> 
> This dog has given warning, therefore I feel there is still hope if the right steps are taken.


Yes me too, I believe there is some chance for him. I only wish that Lola would have given warning, and that my cousin did not have to live with an emotional and physical scar for the rest of her life. That is why I say good luck with everything you do mathbox, I hope all goes well. As for me, it would be very truly hard for me to keep an unpredictable dog in my house with my children. But again, that is just my opinion, everyone thinks differently, and I completely respect and love that. Take care all,
nessa- guera


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

I also want you to forget the dominance voodoo. It may well be that he does just want to be near them in the back seat. Do your children do any training with him? if not, get a clicker book and start working with him and when he starts getting the commands down, have the kids do the same (supervised closely by you of course). This will help you to set up the leadership order. I'd also start him on the "Doggy Zen" training in the training forum, it will teach him some manners and help his concentration, it is also a good ground work for NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) as it teaches a dog not to take anything without permission. Believe it or not, these simple ground rules set him in the "pack" order and will give him more confidence in his place in the family, which may help his anxiety level. 

Remember, he's in a new environment and everything is questionable. It's alot like when Social Services places a child in a new home, they don't know their place and act out to try to establish it. It's not "dominance" it's lack of confidence. 

I hope I'm making sense, I've been up since 5:00 this morning and working in the heat all day.



chul3l3ies1126 said:


> Yes me too, I believe there is some chance for him. I only wish that Lola would have given warning, and that my cousin did not have to live with an emotional and physical scar for the rest of her life. That is why I say good luck with everything you do mathbox, I hope all goes well. As for me, it would be very truly hard for me to keep an unpredictable dog in my house with my children. But again, that is just my opinion, everyone thinks differently, and I completely respect and love that. Take care all,
> nessa- guera


 
In my case it wasn't a cousin, but my own child that was bitten by a dog that gave no warning. It was a dog I adopted from a rescue that placed a known biter. I wasn't told that the dog was a resource gaurder and he put neatly 50 stitches in my daughters face.


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

cshellenberger said:


> In my case it wasn't a cousin, but my own child that was bitten by a dog that gave no warning. It was a dog I adopted from a rescue that placed a known biter. I wasn't told that the dog was a resource gaurder and he put neatly 50 stitches in my daughters face.


First of all, lol, you neeeed sleep Carla!!! Please get some soon or you won't be feeling good tomarrow, these days I don't get much sleep either, hehe I'm a late bloomer (most active and awake in the evening and night).
Second, what breed or mix of breed was your dog that bit your daughter, and did you keep it after all of that? I could not possible think of putting the dog back near my child after he/she put 50 stitches in thier face. Can you please tell what happened, (and sorry to stray away from the topic of mathbox's thread) thanks
nessa-guera


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

Mathbox, do not let anybody near him that uses punishement or dominance based methods. It could very well cause the problem to get worse. You want someone who uses positeve reenforcement and negative punishement (ignoring the dog when it acts out). 

In fact, the next time the dog starts barking at one of your kids, have them turn their backs and walk away from it. Back turning is not only a calming signal, but purposly ignoring the bad reaction will take away the dogs reward (attention for barking).



chul3l3ies1126 said:


> First of all, lol, you neeeed sleep Carla!!! Please get some soon or you won't be feeling good tomarrow, these days I don't get much sleep either, hehe I'm a late bloomer (most active and awake in the evening and night).
> Second, what breed or mix of breed was your dog that bit your daughter, and did you keep it after all of that? I could not possible think of putting the dog back near my child after he/she put 50 stitches in thier face. Can you please tell what happened, (and sorry to stray away from the topic of mathbox's thread) thanks
> nessa-guera


 
I had the dog immeadiatly euthinized. The bite was far too serious to do anything else. It was an 18 month old Rottie, understand, my mom raised Rotties so I was very familiar with the breed (still love them). This dogs history was not revealed to me and the rescue adopted it knowing I had a small child (she was 5). The fact is the dog should have never been accepted into rescue with a bite history much less adopted to a family with small children.


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## mathbox20girl (Aug 19, 2007)

I am so, so grateful for the advice and suggestions. I am writing everything down for his file so I can look at it tomorrow when we start fresh. Every day with him is like a journey into who-knows-what-he'll-freak-out-about-today. LOL It isn't funny but he IS the most difficult dog I have ever had in my life, and I'm no stranger to dogs. The fact that I WANT to love him and teach him so much just seems to make it worse. I know-patience is key.

I contacted 2 trainers from that link that are 4-5 hours away. (They were the closest.) I'm not wasting anymore time in that department. I thought socialization would be the way to go..to build his confidence, but I need to be able to get a handle on him.

Tonight he's started jumping on me while I'm sitting at the computer. He knows NO when I say it,and I put him down and say down, and praise him when he gets down on his own..but he's really, REALLY stubborn and ..well, stubborn. It would be cute if he wasn't so darn big.  Can you tell I'm just crazy about him already? I REALLY do not want to see this dog wind up looking for another home..I just don't know how much more his little heart can take. 

nessa-guera~I am having a very hard time with it..I tend to be a little on the over-protective side with my youngest anyway, (okay...with all of them, but I try to sound like it's just the youngest..haha) so it really, REALLY freaked me out. I'm fully prepared to face the fact that he may NOT be the pet for us...he really may need a home w/o small children. I do NOT want him to have a bite on his record though...he'll never get adopted with his fear/shyness issues.


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## Ella'sMom (Jul 23, 2007)

I hope I hope I hope you can keep him. He sounds like he needs a lot of love and a lot of training but I am hopeful that he can stay with you. Labradoodles are so darn cute. Please keep us posted.


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## cshellenberger (Dec 2, 2006)

mathbox20girl said:


> Tonight he's started jumping on me while I'm sitting at the computer. He knows NO when I say it,and I put him down and say down, and praise him when he gets down on his own..but he's really, REALLY stubborn and ..well, stubborn. It would be cute if he wasn't so darn big.  Can you tell I'm just crazy about him already? I REALLY do not want to see this dog wind up looking for another home..I just don't know how much more his little heart can take.


Dogs don't understand "NO" they understand your tone. Instead of "No" turn your back, be a tree and IGNORE. Remember any attention, good or bad can reenforce undesirable behavior. AS SOON as he settles, reward heavily with lots of yummys (a fanny pack of goodies may be required and hot dogs cut into small pieces work great). What you will be doing is negative punishment followed by Positive reenforcement.


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## mathbox20girl (Aug 19, 2007)

I will ignore all future jumping episodes. The biggest problem with "training" is that he doesn't seem to be motivated by praise/affection OR treats. He could care less about hot dogs, cheese, hamburger, doggie treats, milk bones, etc. Someone else suggested liver...haven't tried that yet but nothing else phases him.  

One of the trainers I contacted emailed me and asked me to call him tonight after 7 and we'd discuss what my options were. He is almost 5 hours away though so I don't see how this could possibly work?  

He DID say he's worked with many, many dogs that sound just like this one, and has experience with undersocialized/fearful dogs. That sounds encouraging. Today he is just ignoring everything..laying at my feet under the computer like he's dead. LOL My youngest has been over here, steps away from his face, and he doesn't even flinch or blink an eye. He's an odd one to figure out, that's for sure.

Today after his nap, he went to where Maddie was on the sofa, and licked her face all over, then sat by her forever. (She on the sofa, he on the floor.) 

Maybe he's trying to psyche me out..making me think he really likes her, but watching me so he can bite her when I'm out of site?  

This dog is really an interesting one, that's for sure. I have a hard time thinking he's mean..I would give anything to know what set him off with her last night?


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

Poor dog....and good for you for trying.

Dont psyche yourself out thinking your dog is trying to psyche you out. Be aware of his every move when your daughter is around him. I think..that he is just getting used to a new home. I dont think he knows how to act and he is running on doggie instincts. Just watch him as you are and he will soon break down those barriers and become a wonderful pet for you and you family. He got a lot of learning to do. good luck!


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## redox (May 21, 2007)

mathbox20girl said:


> I will ignore all future jumping episodes. The biggest problem with "training" is that he doesn't seem to be motivated by praise/affection OR treats. He could care less about hot dogs, cheese, hamburger, doggie treats, milk bones, etc. Someone else suggested liver...haven't tried that yet but nothing else phases him.


You don't have to use a food or verbal reward. If that doesn't motivate the dog then there is no point. In fact, I'd say most dogs couldn't care less about verbal rewards while training. We say "good boy" while they're thinking "yeah, yeah, now where's my treat!". It is more rare for a dog not to be food motivated, but it's not unheard of. I would also consider attention, play time, special toys, etc to see if you can find something to motivate your dog.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Liver seems to be a good monvatior for my dog. If I want him to do something I will let him get a taste of his kong stuff'n liver snap treats and he will do all the tricks he knows.  I really hope your new dog will work out for you!


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## chucky (Mar 5, 2007)

all dogs are differnt just like ppl, when i was born we had a gsd, my parents trusted that dog with their life, i was left alone with dog thousands of times, not once he growled or even nipped me, he was protecting me at all times, my perents could leave me in a carrege and dog would sit by me, and wouldn,t let anyone approach me. whan i was 7-8yo i was walking him myself(he weighed more than me) he odeyed my every command as much as he did my parents'. while it would seem careless and even be a criminal offence in us, it was common practice in my country, and cuz of that gsd, i can,t imagine my life without dogs, when i culdn,t have one i felt like something great was missing. when i have kids i'll do everything i can to tech them how dogs can enrich and make our life better.


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## Ella'sMom (Jul 23, 2007)

It really sounds like he is trying to figure out his place in the family. He probaby isn't sure where he belongs and your daughter is young and tiny which may be a bit confusing to him. He is probably still trying to decide if she is alpha to him or not. Give him time. He is still somewhat a baby and hasn't had it easy. God bless you for doing everything you can.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't wish to offend you, but, I feel you're in over your head, and probably need professional help. You've only had this poor dog for a week, yet it sounds like he's been given freedom of the house, and just let loose to go with the flow of the household. 

Any new dog, rescue or straight from the breeder, needs time to adjust to the changes, kept in one area of the house, exposed to things and people in a controlled environment with the handler being very calm and matter of fact. And *never, ever leave a dog and child alone unsupervised.* The fact that this puppy growled at your daughter doesn't automatically mean that he's aggressive or dominant. With that said, give me an aggressive dog before a fear biter any day. DO NOT correct this dog for growling. Doing so will simply train him to go diretly to a bite. And keep your children from interacting with him on their terms. Plan together time with the dog tethered - to you or the leg of the sofa, and let him initiate contact. You will want to get the *dog to associate good things happening whenever the children are present*, so have some especially yummy treats to pop into his mouth while the kids are in the room. I prefer Natural Balance food rolls because they're like doggie heroin, you can cut up into tiny pieces, and it's not messy. Since you're rural, you may not have access to a pet store that sells it, so maybe cheese will do.


I see that you're in a rual area without access to a trainer. If you really want to give this dog a chance to make it in your family, then you're going to have to commit to a crash course in research, learn dog behavior, and training methods. IFrom what you've posted, it seems that you're inexperienced in dog behavior and reading their body language, but, we all start from scratch! You can, too.

He may not have been properly crate trained, or, never have been crated before. The fact that he doesn't want to be crated does not mean that he's dominant. What's clear is that he does not want to go in there! You need to read up on *how to crate train*, and ensure that he associates good things with his crate. You need to be aware of your emotions during these times you have forced him in the crate. Our emotions not only travel down the leash, they fly across the room! Remain calm, and do not allow frustration on your part to infect what you're attempting to do.



> He's TERRIFIED of being outside..we go out to potty and then RIGHT back in. He could care less about playing or running. :


Ok, he's scared. Give him time to adjust in his own space, a safe place for him to retreat. For now, I would recommend containing him to one area of the house with the use of baby gates, and only in other areas of the house when you can provide direct supervision. (Keep his crate next to your bed for sleeping at night.) 



> ( He has, however, started playing at night after the kids go to bed. He'll run through the house, jump & hurdle the furniture..and act doggy!


Children freak out many dogs with their jerky movements and shrieky voices. This is why it's imperative to never allow interaction between the dog and your kids unless you are right there to supervise. Your children need to be taught what is, and what is not appropriate behavior with dogs. NO hugging, squeezing, running, or roughhousing should ever go on with the dog. Here's another topic to do research on. 



> He acts happy when people pay attention to him and has never acted aggressive towards our neighbors, their dogs, or strangers.


This says volumes about his temperament! Good dog! And, he's shown much progress and improvement in a short period of time. Be patient and consistent with him. 



> HOWEVER...last night he did a little stand off with one of our kittens, whom he's previously ignored or been terrified of. He growled and barked and did his dominance thing..and I scolded him and he retreated.


*This is perfectly normal*. Another area for you to research on how to introduce resident cat(s) to a new dog.



> Tonight I was in the kitchen and he did the same thing to my 5-year-old...Now I have to say that I have NEVER seen him act aggressive..but he is just now starting to act like anything.


What was your 5-year old doing?



> I know he tries to dominate me by his selective hearing, refusing to get up and walk, refusing to move for me, etc. When we go for walks he will step in front of me EVERY STEP like he has a strong herding instinct or something. He's never been on a leash or been out of a kennel before, so he needs some obedience and training. I figured we'd get to that once he socialized a bit. ?????????? I mean it would be hard to take him to obedience classes when he's terrified of every single noise and smell and sight.


Read the above statement you made. Your answers are there! 
My dogs had to be taught house rules, and be trained how to walk nicely on lead. *Your dog has no clue what is expected of him! It's your job to teach him! * You said yourself he's undersocialized and has never been on a leash, or out of a kennel. Do you expect him to get it through osmosis?! LOL Of course not! Your home is a strange new world where people don't speak his language and he doesn't know yours.




> Of course everyone is freaking out now..saying I need to find another home for him. My mom says an undersocialized dog, with herding & dominance tendencies, who is terrified of everything and starts growling at your kids a week AFTER you have him is a dog bite waiting to happen.


Well, she's right to a degree. However, I seriously doubt that this dog has "herding" tendencies based on how he walks on a leash, and trash the dominance theories. Dominance plays a role with other dogs; we're talking about a dog who doesn't do what you want him to do because he has no clue what you're talking about when you want him off the sofa, etc. 


Again, dogs and children should always be supervised when together. WHAT was your daughter doing when he growled and barked at her? 



> What really gets me is that why NOW? Why not a week ago when he didn't know us and she got around him? He was afraid but didn't show aggression or dominance.


He was overwhelmed by a new environment, new people, new smells, etc. I foster rescues, and do a lot of rehab work, behavior modification, and basic training. I had one foster who from the get go was mild, mellow, got along with all the dogs and cats and people coming and going. Four months down the road his true nature came through: very dog aggressive, and human aggressive to boot! It takes up to a year or more for some dogs to show who they are - they wait until they get comfortable. 



> Just dominance to me..the first night home he INSISTED he got my bed, and he refused to move.


This is not about dominance. He just arrived, he's scared, he doesn't know what's expected of him, or what his place is, but he sure knew that you were nice to him, and next to you is where he wanted to be. Smart dog. 



> Two nights ago he showed some aggression towards one of our cats...who are just kittens. He growled and barked and carried on until I scolded him, and then he retreated.


This is perfectly normal behavior. It's your job to know what and how to properly introduce them, and implement the new dog into daily life with others in the household. You are not doing this. 



> So because of his growling at my daughter, I am afraid to leave him alone with her.


It would be irresponsible of you to leave any dog alone with a 5 yr. old child. My female Standard Poodle is now 6 yrs. old, a wonderful girl who is gentle with children, the disabled and the elderly. When first introduced to my then 5-yr. old grandson, she was 5 months old, and a wild little maniac! She had to be taught not to mouth/nip, jump up on, or grab pantlegs, etc., just as my grandson had to be taught how to interact appropriately with her. And yes, she barked and growled at him, lunged, and was crazy acting. She adored my grandson and was playing! To someone not savvy, it would have looked like she was a vicious little monster, trying to hurt James. My 18 month old grandson could take food out of Maddy's mouth and be safe, but I wouldn't allow this to happen even once. I don't want my grandson picking up bad habits! 



> I cannot stand the thought of giving up on this dog..but what if he's going to be fearful of small children indefinitely? I can't have a dog that I can't leave alone with my kids even long enough so I can potty.


When we bring a dog into our lives, we have to live up to the responsibilities this entails. You brought an unsocialized, 9 month old dog you have no history or pedigree on into your home with young children. That's pretty risky in and of itself. You aren't savvy to canine behavior, body language, how to introduce a new dog to a new household, or how to introduce a dog to walking on lead, much less a dog with fear issues due to lack of socialization, and God knows what else. You're doing the best you know how, but, you need to learn, and learn quickly how to deal with your situation. My dogs all feel they have to accompany me to the potty  so it wouldn't be an imposition for me to take a new puppy with me to the potty, but if you aren't willing to do that, no problem. Put him in another room, or his crate, or an ex-pen. It's not going to be forever that you will need to do this! 


The simple solution is supervision, supervision, supervision! Give the dog and the kid a chance, keep it safe, and THEN decide. Best of luck to you!


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

You've gotten lots of great advice. I'm new to dog owning myself, but I have done lots of research and will put in my own thoughts/reiterate some others' points.

1) Start working on leash training. Do it inside your house in a hallway if he's too scared to be outside at first. I would suggest an easy-walk harness, which discourages pulling gently (my golden retriever pup is so very submissive and gentle, and a tool like a choke collar or head harness would just break her spirit; this corrects her bad walking without any harsh jerks or corrections, just gentle pressure to her chest that encourages her to slow down a bit). You can read about it on their website and there's a # to call to find where you can order it: http://www.premier.com/pages.cfm?id=74
The leash will give you control over him inside and out, as well as being an important part of obediance (he will know that with the leash on, he has to do as you say). Plus, if he gets used to the leash, you can start to venture out on walks (even if just to the potty area and back at first) and slowly build up to get him exercise--a tired dog is a good dog!

2) Invest in a playpen or indoor kennel that you can put up to keep him separated from the kids/cats but still with you and the family. He probably shouldn't have the run of the house until you're more comfortable with his behavior and know he won't have problems. This also might help him learn to appreciate the kids more, as getting "free" of his playpen to play with them will be a special treat. Also, this gives you a place to put him in "time out" if he's jumping on you. But I wouldn't just think of it as time out, it's limited freedom. He'll have enough room to move around (unlike a crate), but can't get at whatever he wants.

3) Don't leave kids/dogs alone, as many others have said. My 5 month old golden retriever is the friendliest dog ever, but I would still never trust her around kids without a leash and my supervision because she gets so excited by their high-pitched voices and small stature and just wants to jump and play (and her play is a bit too boisterous for most children). 

4) Obediance training. And get the kids involved, too. The dog should be just as obediant to the kids as to you. Make sure you are with them and teach the kids the commands and hand signals you are using in training so that they keep the training consistent.

While you wait to meet with a trainer, you can work on sit, down, stay, and off (to stop jumping) as well as nice leash walking on your own. Even if it seems he already knows these, I would do repetitions of them anyway, both to build a training relationship and to make sure that he really understands that _every_ time you say down, he does a down.

5) As far as treats, I have two suggestions (other than trying liver, which may/may not work). First is that I assume you are feeding kibble, and you can incorporate training into feeding time. If your dog is getting breakfast during training, he might be more willing to eat/concentrate because he will be hungry and will only be able to get his food if he obeys your commands and does the training. You can do this, giving one piece of kibble at a time, for 10 minutes or so and then reward him by letting him have the rest of the bowl. Secondly, if he loves to be with you, then praise and affection might be enough. Having you ignore him or leave him in his area while leaving the room might be enough of a deterrant to make him want the praise. Since he loves his toys, you could also use those for training--he only gets a toy after he follows your commands.

Good luck. I can tell that your heart is in the right place and I think with commitment, you will be able to succeed (I really hope so; I hate to think of dogs as unfixable). Also, many dogs show fear-based aggression, so he's not necessarily dominant, but probably just afraid/uncomfortable--which means that he needs to feel safe (going in his safe area) and not be scolded, but still be given a firm command to sit and stay until he calms down. 

Also, you read so many conflicting things online, that I would make a game plan and just stick to it for at least a few weeks (it may take awhile to see improvement). I know lots of people try something, don't see any immediate change, and just assume it doesn't work and so move on to the next thing, when they really aren't giving any technique enough time to work. We tried everything, for example, to get our pup to stop nipping our hands, and in the end, it was the first technique we'd tried (ignoring her and saying no bite) that worked in the end--but it took a couple of months of maturity for her to get there!

Your dog is still quite young, so he should be able to change and adjust but he is also still immature!


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## Mdawn (Mar 3, 2007)

Your posts about this dog has just broke my heart! I can't imagine what he must have suffered in his short life to be left so traumatized. 

From everything I've read, I don't think that this dog is a hopeless case. I really think that with commitment and determination on your part this dog has a shot to become a great family dog. 

Just wanted to give you some words of encouragement!! Good Luck!


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## Ella'sMom (Jul 23, 2007)

poodleholic said:


> I don't wish to offend you, but, I feel you're in over your head, and probably need professional help. You've only had this poor dog for a week, yet it sounds like he's been given freedom of the house, and just let loose to go with the flow of the household.
> 
> Any new dog, rescue or straight from the breeder, needs time to adjust to the changes, kept in one area of the house, exposed to things and people in a controlled environment with the handler being very calm and matter of fact. And *never, ever leave a dog and child alone unsupervised.* The fact that this puppy growled at your daughter doesn't automatically mean that he's aggressive or dominant. With that said, give me an aggressive dog before a fear biter any day. DO NOT correct this dog for growling. Doing so will simply train him to go diretly to a bite. And keep your children from interacting with him on their terms. Plan together time with the dog tethered - to you or the leg of the sofa, and let him initiate contact. You will want to get the *dog to associate good things happening whenever the children are present*, so have some especially yummy treats to pop into his mouth while the kids are in the room. I prefer Natural Balance food rolls because they're like doggie heroin, you can cut up into tiny pieces, and it's not messy. Since you're rural, you may not have access to a pet store that sells it, so maybe cheese will do.
> 
> ...




Wow. Fantastic advice. I learned a lot from this post!!!


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## whimsy (Aug 19, 2007)

Please give this dog a chance. But until he has been rehabed I wouldn't leave the kids alone with him. His grwling or nipping is not dominance, it's fear. Maybe fear of losing a home? Are you the one who picked him out and took him home...then he would feel protective and jealous of anyone around "his territory". We adopted a dog with the same problem, it took 7 mos to get him to be trustworthy, but every bit of work we put into him paid off. He became a cherished family member. Your vet could give you lots of guidance re; behaviour. He needs to be taken to obedience classes to learn to accept you as his alpha. It's lots of fun and easier with a class for support.
Unless he is physically unsound or has any health issues, I'm sure he can become a great dog.


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