# Dog bites during and after his baths



## Eden (Aug 7, 2011)

Our dog Oliver has always hated baths, to the point where I now have to muzzle him. If he's not muzzled, he will bite me with force. With the muzzle on, he sits perfectly still, but the second it comes off he goes nuts. I usually let him run around the house for a bit afterwards and then do training exercises with him to calm him down, but tonight he bit my husband hard enough to draw blood right after his bath. My husband was trying to get him to calm down while I was still cleaning up the tub (ill advised, but he's not usually around after Oliver's baths) and Oliver turned around and bit his arm very hard. He was snapping viciously and it was a little bit frightening. My husband is now convinced that he's a "psycho dog" who has split personalities, because we've never had a dog that could go from happy-go-lucky to biting his owners just because of a bath.

Any advice on how to deal with this? It seems that our pup is actually angry at us for bathing him!


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## Touareg (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm not too sure how to handle it. But I do know how it goes. My mother's dog HATED baths and whenever you went to pick him up to put him in, he growled and nipped, and bit and anything possible to try and get away. But, it always seemed that once he was actually IN the bathtub he was fine. So what we started doing what luring him in to the bathroom, and allowing him to come in on his own time, and comfort before getting into the bath and with one stern NO at the first snarl he seemed to be alright. However still, the further away from the bath the more aggressive he seems to be about getting it.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

You could be traumatizing your pup by forcing it to take baths like that (which has probably already happened if you are "to the point where I now have to muzzle him." That phrase also tells me he didn't start out hating it as much as he does now? I'm pretty sure one bad bath experience during puppyhood was what made my dog afraid of water (till this day!)

Does he like water in any other forms? (swimming? sprinkler?) If so, I would try rebuilding this concept of a bath. If he happens to hate tubs but might not be so adamant about sprinklers. I would *slowly* start trying to teach him to like hoses. First by praising/rewarding for being around the hose, then when the hose is on, then when there's only a bit of water splashing him... you get my drift. Alternatively, if you hose him down right now and he hates it, I would try to get him to be comfortable being around/in a basin of water. 

If he absolutely hates water in all it's forms. Good job. I guess the damage is done. But you can either try looking into other ways of getting your dog clean (unscented baby wipes work wonders). Or if you're really insistent on bathing him the way you do now, you could keep the muzzle on longer until he calms down. Then give him lots of love and treats if your dog likes food. Also, you might want to start practicing putting on the muzzle and taking it off, and rewarding for calmness, at random points of the day. If you only muzzle him during baths he'll have associated muzzles with baths.


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## Eden (Aug 7, 2011)

Canyx said:


> You could be traumatizing your pup by forcing it to take baths like that (which has probably already happened if you are "to the point where I now have to muzzle him." That phrase also tells me he didn't start out hating it as much as he does now? I'm pretty sure one bad bath experience during puppyhood was what made my dog afraid of water (till this day!)
> 
> Does he like water in any other forms? (swimming? sprinkler?) If so, I would try rebuilding this concept of a bath. If he happens to hate tubs but might not be so adamant about sprinklers. I would *slowly* start trying to teach him to like hoses. First by praising/rewarding for being around the hose, then when the hose is on, then when there's only a bit of water splashing him... you get my drift. Alternatively, if you hose him down right now and he hates it, I would try to get him to be comfortable being around/in a basin of water.
> 
> If he absolutely hates water in all it's forms. Good job. I guess the damage is done. But you can either try looking into other ways of getting your dog clean (unscented baby wipes work wonders). Or if you're really insistent on bathing him the way you do now, you could keep the muzzle on longer until he calms down. Then give him lots of love and treats if your dog likes food. Also, you might want to start practicing putting on the muzzle and taking it off, and rewarding for calmness, at random points of the day. If you only muzzle him during baths he'll have associated muzzles with baths.


I already do that with the muzzle. He is not afraid of the muzzle; I simply have to use it because he has bitten me several times during previous baths. And no, he has not gotten progressively worse with his behavior during bath time - he has always acted this way, but I was very reluctant to muzzle him. I tried everything else first, and then finally reached a point where I decided it was necessary for my own safety. He is also much calmer with the muzzle on.

Thanks for assuming that I'm traumatizing my puppy and that "the damage is done". My dog is actually a rescue dog that was severely abused and left for dead. I am extremely gentle with him during baths and have tried everything (including everything recommended by a very good dog behaviorist) and nothing has worked, which is why we BOTH agree that a muzzle is necessary. I do not do anything "traumatizing" to him during his baths - it's simply what it is. For all I know the sickos who abused him held his head underneath the water and that's why he's terrified - I don't know. I have introduced him slowly to water and he is fine with all water except for bath time.

Your assumptions and general tone were completely unhelpful. Before you assume someone is an uneducated dog owner who just must be doing permanent damage to their dog, please remind yourself that you know nothing about me or my dog. I asked for advice, not for stupid blind judgment based on absolutely nothing.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Eden said:


> I already do that with the muzzle. He is not afraid of the muzzle; I simply have to use it because he has bitten me several times during previous baths.
> 
> Thanks for assuming that I'm traumatizing my puppy and that "the damage is done". My dog is actually a rescue dog that was severely abused and left for dead. I am extremely gentle with him during baths and have tried everything (including everything recommended by a very good dog behaviorist) and nothing has worked, which is why we BOTH agree that a muzzle is necessary. I do not do anything "traumatizing" to him during his baths - it's simply what it is. For all I know the sickos who abused him held his head underneath the water and that's why he's terrified - I don't know. I have introduced him slowly to water and he is fine with all water except for bath time.
> 
> Your assumptions and general tone were completely unhelpful. Before you assume someone is an uneducated dog owner who just must be doing permanent damage to their dog, please remind yourself that you know nothing about me or my dog. I asked for advice, not for stupid blind judgment based on absolutely nothing.


How are you bathing him? In a tub full of water? In a tub/shower with a handheld shower attachment? 
At what point does he start biting? If you are putting him in a tub full of water, I'd get a handheld shower attachment. I find dogs are much better with those. Then I'd start desensitizing him. If he can go into the bathroom fine, but balks at the tub, start there. If you can get him in the tub without water, start there. Then everyday, I would put a leash on him, walk him into the bathroom, and pat/treat, and walk out. Repeat. If you can put him in the tub (empty), I'd put him in there daily, and give him a high value treat, remove, repeat. Then when he isn't around, adjust water setting so it's warm. Shut it off, and put him in the tub (empty), turn on spray on gentle setting, but don't get him wet, praise, treat, remove. Repeat. The next day ( or when he no longer gets tense...don't push him to the point of getting upset...don't go to the next step until he is relaxed on the current one), let the spray barely touch his feet. Stop, treat/praise. And so on.

Go very slow. He will need time until he is fully relaxed with one step to go to the next one. It won't be a steady progression. What he is ok with one day, he may get tense for the next. Don't be afraid of backing up a step for a few days. The whole key, is being VERY aware of his body language (eyes, ears, tail, muscle tenseness). When you first take him into the bathroom, just chill out with him, maybe play with his favorite toy, scratch his favorite spots, etc, until he finally is relaxed. Then treat/leave. Don't leave with him tense. Just chill with him at that point, wherever he is, until he settles, then treat. Don't treat when he is tense/misbehaving.

It will take a lot of patience, but you can make him learn to be ok with baths. In the meantime, I'd use wet wipe shampoo cloths for dogs.


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## Eden (Aug 7, 2011)

spotted nikes said:


> How are you bathing him? In a tub full of water? In a tub/shower with a handheld shower attachment?
> At what point does he start biting? If you are putting him in a tub full of water, I'd get a handheld shower attachment. I find dogs are much better with those. Then I'd start desensitizing him. If he can go into the bathroom fine, but balks at the tub, start there. If you can get him in the tub without water, start there. Then everyday, I would put a leash on him, walk him into the bathroom, and pat/treat, and walk out. Repeat. If you can put him in the tub (empty), I'd put him in there daily, and give him a high value treat, remove, repeat. Then when he isn't around, adjust water setting so it's warm. Shut it off, and put him in the tub (empty), turn on spray on gentle setting, but don't get him wet, praise, treat, remove. Repeat. The next day ( or when he no longer gets tense...don't push him to the point of getting upset...don't go to the next step until he is relaxed on the current one), let the spray barely touch his feet. Stop, treat/praise. And so on.
> 
> Go very slow. He will need time until he is fully relaxed with one step to go to the next one. It won't be a steady progression. What he is ok with one day, he may get tense for the next. Don't be afraid of backing up a step for a few days. The whole key, is being VERY aware of his body language (eyes, ears, tail, muscle tenseness). When you first take him into the bathroom, just chill out with him, maybe play with his favorite toy, scratch his favorite spots, etc, until he finally is relaxed. Then treat/leave. Don't leave with him tense. Just chill with him at that point, wherever he is, until he settles, then treat. Don't treat when he is tense/misbehaving.
> ...


Thank you for your helpful reply.

I use a handheld shower attachment because it's so much easier and he seems to like it better. I currently put him in the tub that has no water in it, because he *really* doesn't like to go into a tub that has standing water in it. He starts biting when I massage the shampoo into his coat, particularly near his hind legs or belly. I know it's not a medical concern because I've had him checked out at the vet -- I think it just comes down to not feeling safe in a tub for some reason, especially with physical contact involved.

I have tried to do similar conditioning exercises as you suggested, but not with that much detail or patience! I'm definitely going to give it a shot and see if he can start making lasting positive associations with the bathroom and eventually the tub. He doesn't seem to have any fears or problems except for this issue, but it's a big one ... especially with the nasty bite he gave my husband tonight. I'm glad to hear you think it's possible to get to the point where he's okay with baths, though -- I was starting to lose hope.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

How is he for you to massage his hips/thighs/back when he's not in a tub? Could he have an old injury/arthritis that makes massaging that painful? If he was abused, it might not be out of the question. They sell sprayers for horses (and people, now that I think of it) that have the shampoo built into the sprayer, so it mixes with the water, which would mean you wouldn't need to scrub shampoo into him. (Or buy a miracle grow spray container, and attach that, and add shampoo to it, so it mixes with the water). Might try that, if he's good with everything but the scrubbing. If your hanheld shower attach is the one for dogs that just has a light spray setting, consider getting a people "Shower Massage" so you can use the Pulse/massage setting to get down to the skin without actually massaging on him.
Adding a rubber mat to the tub to help his grip might help, as sometimes the footing is slippery, so they feel off balance. More so, when you are scrubbing shampoo onto them.
Just a few things to try/consider. It may take a little trying different things to see what helps. But definitely do the desensitizing.
I have a dog that you couldn't hold her paw without her screaming like you were killing her, and pulling away. It took a lot of slow desensitizing, but now she gives me her paw and lets me clip her nails, without even being leashed. But it took me a couple of months.


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## Eden (Aug 7, 2011)

spotted nikes said:


> How is he for you to massage his hips/thighs/back when he's not in a tub? Could he have an old injury/arthritis that makes massaging that painful? If he was abused, it might not be out of the question. They sell sprayers for horses (and people, now that I think of it) that have the shampoo built into the sprayer, so it mixes with the water, which would mean you wouldn't need to scrub shampoo into him. (Or buy a miracle grow spray container, and attach that, and add shampoo to it, so it mixes with the water). Might try that, if he's good with everything but the scrubbing. If your hanheld shower attach is the one for dogs that just has a light spray setting, consider getting a people "Shower Massage" so you can use the Pulse/massage setting to get down to the skin without actually massaging on him.
> Adding a rubber mat to the tub to help his grip might help, as sometimes the footing is slippery, so they feel off balance. More so, when you are scrubbing shampoo onto them.
> Just a few things to try/consider. It may take a little trying different things to see what helps. But definitely do the desensitizing.
> I have a dog that you couldn't hold her paw without her screaming like you were killing her, and pulling away. It took a lot of slow desensitizing, but now she gives me her paw and lets me clip her nails, without even being leashed. But it took me a couple of months.


Hmmm ... now that you mention it, he sometimes growls and looks unhappy when I brush him near his hind legs. It's nothing like during his baths and usually he just tolerates it, but it's a definite difference than when I brush other parts of him. He actually enjoys getting brushed all other places except for his hind legs. I've never thought of him possibly having an old injury because I've never seen him limp or act like anything is bothering him, but it could be something that I just can't see. He's only 9 months so I don't know about arthritis, but it is possible that his prior abuse had something to do with his hind legs.

I use a handheld attachment made for people and I just have a extra-long cord for it. I've never been able to find one made especially for pets that had enough pressure to get all the shampoo out of the coat quickly. I may look into the sprayer that will mix the shampoo with the water, because it's really the scrubbing that bothers him instead of the water. 

Thanks again for the suggestions! I'm going to keep a look out for how he reacts to his hind legs being touched from now on. It would explain a lot if there was an old injury there or some psychological issue.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

As an experiment, if he is otherwise healthy, you could give him the correct amount of aspirin (enteric) with a small amount of food, for his weight, wait a half an hour or so, then groom him and see if he seems less reactive to having his hips/legs handled. You might need to try it every other day for about 6 days, in case some of the "resistance" is in anticipation of pain. If on he 3rd time, he seems fine, then I'd say it might be worthwhile having a vet xray hips/legs. May be something that is causing pain, that with the aspirin, is removing the pain.
Aspirin is not the first pain reliever of choice because of the risk of ulcers from it, so I wouldn't leave him on it if it turns out to be pain related. But as a diagnostic tool in a healthy dog, it can be helpful. You can check with your vet as to the dose, and to get his ok, as to the safety with your dog's current physical condition. A phone call is free.


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## shaunna (Jul 14, 2011)

Aww, sounds like Oliver is very lucky to have someone that is willing to help him with his issues. I hope that you can come up with a solution soon.


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## The_Monstors (Oct 1, 2010)

Spotted Nikes has been giving great points. 

Even though you got offended at Canyx she did give a really good point on maybe starting fresh with baths outside? 

While going slow on desensitizing him, stretch out the baths for now. They dont really need a lot of baths. I do mine maybe 4 times a year only. You can use wipes, but also there is dry shampoo if he gets particularly oily. 

I'm surprised that he's that bad when supposedly you went to a good behaviorist. I would try someone else if you dont get anywhere with him. I do hope he gets better and that this isn't something that can't be turned to a positive experience.


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

I'll second spotted nikes points.

Forego actual bathing and use bath wipes for now. I shaped my neighbors husky so he could learn to tolerate bath time. First we worked on walking into the bathroom, walking into an empty tub. Turning the water on in the tub, splashing a little water on his back, etc. We did all of this leash free with high value treats and a clicker. 

It takes time. 
What did you do with your behaviorist? I suggest tracking down a new one that will help you build a positive association with bathing.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Eden said:


> I already do that with the muzzle. He is not afraid of the muzzle; I simply have to use it because he has bitten me several times during previous baths. And no, he has not gotten progressively worse with his behavior during bath time - he has always acted this way, but I was very reluctant to muzzle him. I tried everything else first, and then finally reached a point where I decided it was necessary for my own safety. He is also much calmer with the muzzle on.
> 
> Thanks for assuming that I'm traumatizing my puppy and that "the damage is done". My dog is actually a rescue dog that was severely abused and left for dead. I am extremely gentle with him during baths and have tried everything (including everything recommended by a very good dog behaviorist) and nothing has worked, which is why we BOTH agree that a muzzle is necessary. I do not do anything "traumatizing" to him during his baths - it's simply what it is. For all I know the sickos who abused him held his head underneath the water and that's why he's terrified - I don't know. I have introduced him slowly to water and he is fine with all water except for bath time.
> 
> Your assumptions and general tone were completely unhelpful. Before you assume someone is an uneducated dog owner who just must be doing permanent damage to their dog, please remind yourself that you know nothing about me or my dog. I asked for advice, not for stupid blind judgment based on absolutely nothing.



I wasn't trying to have a go at you or your dog :/
In fact, all of it was meant to be advice, though I see how you might be offended at the "good job" part. Unfortunate, that tones don't come across the way I mean them to on the internet.
None of it implied that you are a bad owner. And also, physically abusing your dog is not the only way to traumatize him. I was just stating how my dog was traumatized by the hose simply because he wasn't introduced to it properly and how he also has a certain fear of water because of it. Your dog hates baths to the point of showing aggression during them? Well then the only thing I would think that you did 'wrong' is continuing to put him in that high stress situation. But that also does not mean you're a bad owner. Take it as you will.
Otherwise, the useless advice I gave (slowly introducing your dog to another means of bathing, even if means switching to something waterless) is basically what spotted nikes said in her first post.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

What's the footing like in your tub? Do you have a rubber mat or anything that gives traction? Sometimes pups can freak out in a tub simply because it's slippery and they don't feel secure. It doesn't sound like that's the main issue, but it could be a contributing factor.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

There have been some excellent ideas here (from the asprin to the footing to all of the above). We've dealt with dogs at work that, for whatever reason, decide they will NOT get a bath and the bather shall die if they attempt it. On the occasion the owner is willing to work with us, the vet is called and a light sedative has been prescribed. NOT enough to "knock them out", or anything like that, but just enough to take the edge off the anxiety. And gradually, we (the owners, us, and the vet) wean the dose lower and lower until the dogs can successfully deal with a bath without spazzing. It has worked many times, but it does take time to get there. But it's certainly do-able, and something you might want to ask your vet about if no other suggestions work. 
Another idea is you mentioned you're "Very gentle", which is good obviously. However, I've noticed in myself that if I get "TOO" gentle, I become almost hesitant, and that IMMEDIATELY puts most dogs on guard and on edge, especially if it's something they're already uncomfortable with. And if you're prepared for your dog to freak out, it's going to upset YOU, and therefore you'll be more hesitant (touching lightly with jerky motions, jumping a bit at every move the dogs makes, etc)...it can lead to disaster and actually cause a bite. (Don't take this as if I'm saying it's all your fault, because it's not. But I know how handling can make a dog bite vs. make a biter say "no worries here"...) It sounds ridiculous but I talk very quietly to these types, but not in a high pitched sing-song voice. It's almost a combination of reassurance, and "I'm in control, so don't worry". 
I hope things work out for you guys


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Great advice, especially from spotted nikes. 

I would just through in that if you are planning on taking on a full counter conditioning plan, be prepared. It will take a lot of time, energy and _patience_! You must be extremely consistent for maximum effectiveness. Will Oliver ever love taking baths? Probably not. Can you get him to take baths willingly and with no aggression? Definitely!

I would agree that it sounds like Oliver is very sensitive to being touched. I would recommend not bathing him until you have completed the whole process of desensitization, which could take months/years. In the meantime, use baby wipes. 

I'd start also desensitizing him to being petted/massaged. Do the same thing described for the bath, but with petting. Touch, click, treat. Slowly working your way towards actually massaging his rear. Then I would start the process all over again, but with water. Again, this is a slow process and you might wonder if it is working but the whole goal is to slowly change the feelings and associations your dog has with a certain movement/place/whatever.

I would also seek the help of a positive reinforcement behaviorist. Specifically mention this issue but especially that in general he does not react well to his hips being touched. I really think that is the key to the whole 'bath' issue you are having. The new environment, being confined, held and the extra stress of water is, IMO, what is causing the extreme reaction. He doesn't have those extra stressors when you normally touch him, so you may not see that aggressive reaction.


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