# What age to switch from puppy food to adult food?



## TibetanFan (Aug 31, 2007)

I have a 7 month old Tibetan Terrier. Our pet store is having a big sale this weekend so I want to stock up on dog food. She currently eats Merrick Puppy Platter dry food mixed with Merricks canned food. At what age would you change to the adult dry food? Thanks for any advice.


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## Renoman (Mar 20, 2007)

As far as I know, unless your vet says otherwise, with medium to small dogs it's usually ok to keep them on puppy food until they're a year old.


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## 007Dogs (Aug 22, 2007)

Birth. I have been involved in purebred dogs for 47 years and I do not feed puppies puppy food ever. I feed them high quality adult food from birth. With many breeds feeding puppy food is the equivilant of bringing a newborn home from the hospital and feeding it steak and potatoes, now how many of us would really do that. I hope the answer is none. The marketing of puppy food for puppies is just that, a marketing ploy to get more of our money. Also feeding puppy food can sometime cause permanant structual damage. The protein content is so high that bones grow fastest than tendons and ligaments, thus causing structural damage to young growing dogs. It is not good for a puppy to grow too fast.


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## The Muttlies (Nov 24, 2007)

I personally do not feed puppy food, either. I start them on an all life-stages food such as EVO or Canidae. My youngest dog was started on TimberWolf Organics.


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

I'm in the same boat as the others who dont feed puppy food, dont get me wrong, I did at one point, but now knowing what I do and realizing how little the pet food industry really seems to care about our pets as apposed to our money... I wouldnt ever feed it again.
Since you are now, I would look into switching now, especially if you are buying a bulk amount.


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## Renoman (Mar 20, 2007)

The Muttlies said:


> I personally do not feed puppy food, either. I start them on an all life-stages food such as EVO or Canidae. My youngest dog was started on TimberWolf Organics.


Since I have a large breed, that's exactly what I do. Guess it's the same with smaller dogs. Learn something new every day.


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## Harmonybear (Oct 24, 2007)

> She currently eats Merrick Puppy Platter dry food mixed with Merricks canned food.


Luna is on Puppy Plater, too. But... correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Merrick Puppy Plate is technically _not_ puppy food. From the back of the bag: _"Puppy Plate is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food nutrient profiles for all life stages."_ 

I thought I read somewhere that if a food is for all life stages, it's not puppy food? Of course, it does have a lot of protein (~28%), but that's not nearly as much as Innovo EVO for example (~42%). Can anyone help clarify for me?


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## TomN (Jul 1, 2007)

Harmony bear said:


> Luna is on Puppy Plater, too. But... correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Merrick Puppy Plate is technically _not_ puppy food. From the back of the bag: _"Puppy Plate is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food nutrient profiles for all life stages."_
> 
> I thought I read somewhere that if a food is for all life stages, it's not puppy food? Of course, it does have a lot of protein (~28%), but that's not nearly as much as Innovo EVO for example (~42%). Can anyone help clarify for me?



I think the term "all life stages" basically means it is formulated to suit dogs of all ages from puppy to senior. It also means that it will contain moderate amounts of protein/fat and vitamins and minerals. On the other hand most of the formula's such as "large breed puppy" and such are more of a marketing gimmick IMO. Regardless of brand or formula, large breed puppies or any puppy for that matter should be fed a high quality, highly digestible kibble. The main key is to control the amount they eat to match their activity level and not allow them to become obese. Obesity is where you can run into problems later in life with joint problems, especially with larger breeds. Much better to have a pup slightly on the thin side than plump. A fat pup will put too much stress on their rapidly growing bones. Feeding a formula such as Innova EVO which is a grainless formula meant to mimic a raw diet would probably be ok, BUT.... you would have to strickly monitor their weight and portions as the feed is very calorie dense.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

TomN said:


> The main key is to control the amount they eat to match their activity level and not allow them to become obese. Obesity is where you can run into problems later in life with joint problems, especially with larger breeds.


actually, the main key is to control PROTEIN. ESPECIALLY in large and giant breeds. PROTEIN is what is going to cause growth diseases. Ideally with pups you want a protein level less than 23%. No additional supplements, especially not vit.C..... but yes, you dont want a fat pup either. Really, what you want is to be able to look at your dog overhead standing. you want to see a visable waist, but not boney. when you look at them from the side you should (depending on color) just barely see their ribs, but when you touch them you want to feel all the ribs, they shouldnt be fatty. The stomach should be tucked up, no extra pouches or jigglies.


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## TomN (Jul 1, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> actually, the main key is to control PROTEIN. ESPECIALLY in large and giant breeds. PROTEIN is what is going to cause growth diseases.


Your partially right here. While excessive protein certainly plays it's part, so to does excessive fat and carbohydrates. Each of these when fed in excess to a large/giant breed growing puppy who's activity level cannot support the extra calories(energy) will gain weight. The end result is an obese pup putting undue stress on his rapidly growing skeletal system from over nutrition. 

Let's use Wolves as an example. I think most will agree that wolves are closely related to our domesticated dogs. Wolves eat a very rich diet in protein throughout their entire lives even as youngsters. If high protein in itself was the sole cause of the so called "growth diseases" as you say, they would not be the success story they are today as they would not be able to hunt effectively to survive in the wild. Rarely do you see the issues at all in the wild with obesity as you do in domesticated dogs, so IMO therein lies the true issue.


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## xxxlisaxxx (Oct 15, 2007)

007Dogs said:


> Birth. I have been involved in purebred dogs for 47 years and I do not feed puppies puppy food ever. I feed them high quality adult food from birth. With many breeds feeding puppy food is the equivilant of bringing a newborn home from the hospital and feeding it steak and potatoes, now how many of us would really do that. I hope the answer is none. The marketing of puppy food for puppies is just that, a marketing ploy to get more of our money. Also feeding puppy food can sometime cause permanant structual damage. The protein content is so high that bones grow fastest than tendons and ligaments, thus causing structural damage to young growing dogs. It is not good for a puppy to grow too fast.


   O guys tell me this aint true!!!!!

After joining dogforums I realised how bad dog food was. I spent hours and hours trying to find a decent high quality food in Ireland without any success and ended up ordering Orijen PUPPY food for my Sammie It is PUPPY food for the larger breed. Have I made a big mistake here????? He has been on it for about 3 weeks now and still about 3 weeks supply left. Can someone please tell me when I have to re-order what brand of Orijen I should get. Im totally confused by all this now.

Orijen is the only one I can get (that has a 6 star rating) from the UK. Anything else has to come from the US and postage is ridiculas plus it would take ages to get here whereas the Orijen is here from the UK within 4-5 days. 

O BOY I REALLY THOUGHT I HAD IT SUSSED NOW IM TOTALLY THROWN. My Sammie is 14 weeks old and as you know they are a pretty big dog so he is pretty big now for his age!!!


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## 007Dogs (Aug 22, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> No additional supplements, especially not vit.C.....


Ok GreatDaneMom, you are going to have to give the gal from the Show Me State, are reason for the vitamin C statement. I totally agree on not suplimenting anything in any amimal(including human) without first doing blood work to determine there is a actual need for that suppliment. But Vitamin C. It is a water soluable vitamin, so any excess it passed safely through the urine. It is a big asset to give to relieve the stresses associated with growing puppies. 

xxxlisaxxx, it is not too late to change. Most structural issues can be resolved if caught before the growth plates close. Here is a good way to check to see if structural issues are caused do to nutrition rather than just bad structure. First you need to know how to properly hang a puppy. This requires lifting the puppy by the jaw bone and with your finger gently placed between the rear legs. I say gently, because it is of utmost importance of how we handle our male puppies and there testes. Then you look in to a mirror, if you are seeing strutrual faults when hanging, and then you set the puppy down onto a table and they vanish, it is more than likely caused by nutrition. If you are really good you can run your hand down the front legs and actually feel those growth plates. But most dogs do not close until at least one year. For large breed dogs it can be closer to 2 years. If you have a chance to pick up Pat Hastings, PUPPY PUZZLE VIDEO, it is worth it's weight in gold for evaluating puppies structure.


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## TrackInDirt (Nov 27, 2007)

I agree with the consensus here. I don't feed puppy formulas anymore, not even the large breed ones. I was having pano left and right a few years back, and this was on pups who were at ideal weight. I was feeding a large breed pup food that was about 28% protein. Needless to say, I ditched that brand straight away and got all the pups I had at the time on adult food with moderate levels of protein AND calcium/phosphorous. The latter has not been mentioned as of yet, but its quite important when dealing with growing pups. The more calcium and phosphorous a food contains, the quicker the bones will grow, & that's just not normal. Slow, even growth is desired. I use a feed that has around 26% protein, and that usually keeps the phosphorous levels in a food down to a normal range.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

i wish people would stop comparing wolves to dogs. theyre NOTHING alike! wolves have a completely different lifestyle than dogs. you should read over some of the raw feeding threads. they are meant to minipulate natural feeding and you should look at how much protein they are really taking in with that. its not as much as you would think. high proteins cause rapid growth, thats why you want a food LOW in protein. carbs and fats are easy to keep track of, all you do is watch what the body looks like and feed accordingly.


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## Wimble Woof (Jan 16, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> i wish people would stop comparing wolves to dogs. theyre NOTHING alike! wolves have a completely different lifestyle than dogs.


Yeah... you lost me here...
Sure they have different "life styles" but they have the same structure, digestive system, teeth and ancestors to name a few similarities... 
the main thing I can think of is wolves have to hunt for their food while our pets get the luxury of having it handed to them. However, the excess energy requirements thats wolves need to hunt, can be easily compared to our dogs and their daily excersice...(especially when it comes to working or sporting dogs)

While I do agree with you on the protien, I too am at a loss on your vit C issue?


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

well as far as i know when it comes to growth issues (my dog had HOD) you shouldnt be supplementing with vitamin C because it can promote faster growth and abnormal growth. I forgot what exactly it all was, but something about some kind of abnormal calcification too... i have to look it all up again to find out exactly what it was. i also was to 5 vets with her, all who said not to give vitamin C for the same reasons i had found online myself.


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## Shalva (Mar 23, 2007)

007Dogs said:


> Birth. I have been involved in purebred dogs for 47 years and I do not feed puppies puppy food ever. I feed them high quality adult food from birth. With many breeds feeding puppy food is the equivilant of bringing a newborn home from the hospital and feeding it steak and potatoes, now how many of us would really do that. I hope the answer is none. The marketing of puppy food for puppies is just that, a marketing ploy to get more of our money. Also feeding puppy food can sometime cause permanant structual damage. The protein content is so high that bones grow fastest than tendons and ligaments, thus causing structural damage to young growing dogs. It is not good for a puppy to grow too fast.



ditto, I dont feed or encourage the feeding of puppy food. I don't feed kibble but have switched a few of the pups to kibble before they have gone to their new homes and I put them right on adult food.


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## ozzy (Sep 29, 2007)

Well I am a little confused about this subject because my pup is on puppy food and after he was neutered the vet told me to slowly switch him to adult. That was at 6 months. The breeder told me to switch him at 8 months and she has the most experience with these dogs so I trust her. He is almost 7 months now so I think I am going to start switching him when the current bag of puppy food runs out.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

here is the big problem with talking to vets about food- most of them have no real clue! vets arent given a huge course on nutrition when theyre in schooling, and the course that they are given...i cant even say is good. most vets know that whatever they are being pushed to sell in their office is whats best and you should buy it.... most of them dont know about ingredients- they dont know most of the food out there even.


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## all4thedogs (Sep 25, 2006)

GreatDaneMom said:


> No additional supplements, especially not vit.C...


I disagree with this statement. Vit C is water soluble and excess is passed in their urine. Vit C has been shown to help prevent growth issues. I gave Ryder vit C the entire time he was growing (recommended by my vet (who raises Danes), the rescue I am involved in, and nearly all the research I did on my own)). Vit C is also proven to bring up flat feet in Great Danes (a big problem with growing pups). 

As for the puppy food...I never feed puppy food. They are immediately given adult food.


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## TomN (Jul 1, 2007)

Wimble Woof said:


> Yeah... you lost me here...
> Sure they have different "life styles" but they have the same structure, digestive system, teeth and ancestors to name a few similarities...



Thank you Wimble Woof! Greatdane mom I said nothing with regards to lifestyles. I was referrring to the affects of consuming large amounts of protein vs growth deformities. And yes there are some parallels with that but it's how much is consumed vs activity level. In growing pups Overnutrition = overweight = joint disorders.


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## 007Dogs (Aug 22, 2007)

Wow, now that is odd regarding the vitamin C, because I was told that it would fix flat feet. I got this information from AKC judge, and author of the Puppy Puzzle and Tricks of the Trade, Pat Hastings. I have attended her siminar as well as other siminars regarding breeding, and raising sound puppies. 

GreatDaneMom, I was watching a National Geography special on Wolves years ago, and they stated the DNA of the wolf is EXACTLY the same as the domestic dog. Wonder how that can be. 

Many years ago, it was a common practice amongst Thoroughbred horse breeders to use "creep feeding" of hi-protein sweet feed for growing suckling and weanling foals. When these foals started getting physitis/epiphysitis (inflammation of the growth plates) and lesions in the bones (OCD--Osteochondrosis-dessicans) as yearlings and two year olds, thinking started to change drammatically. A fat foal is one that is more likely to have sketetal problems. Same with puppies. Fat is cute, but it is not healthy once those puppies start motoring around. Fat is hard on those growth plates and joints.


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## TomN (Jul 1, 2007)

007Dogs said:


> GreatDaneMom, I was watching a National Geography special on Wolves years ago, and they stated the DNA of the wolf is EXACTLY the same as the domestic dog. Wonder how that can be.


I guess I'm not the only one who saw that special... 

Wolves consume very high amounts of Protein from very young pups to adults. It is acquired from the animals they hunt. Yet there are seldom obesity issues with wild wolves. Thus the joint issues are all but non-existent.



> A fat foal is one that is more likely to have skeletal problems. Same with puppies. Fat is cute, but it is not healthy once those puppies start motoring around. Fat is hard on those growth plates and joints.


Exactly.. It's not that the high protein in itself which is causing the problem as is the over consumption of protein(calories) which causes obesity. Feed according to activity level and watch body composition. Obesity at an ages in which the bones are growing rapidly is the real culprit. And to say that Protein is the only cautionary, it is not. Excessive carbohydrates as well as fat intake will cause the exact same condition.


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## Cobalt (Jul 27, 2007)

I have a Tibetan Terrier puppy as well and I am just as confused as you are! Mia will be 6 mths on 12/6

Currently, Mia is fed Innova Puppy. We tried many foods and she was not interested in a lot of them. I asked the vet if it was time to switch her to Canidae and she said no. She does like Canidae and it is an all phase food. Mia is thin and was recently sick so that may have been part of the reason.

I do mix her food with a bit of California Natural because she loves CN and if I don't do that, she only eats half the amount of Innova that she should. 

I tried Chicken Soup... Puppy and she wouldn't eat it. 

Tibetan fan, I haven't found many other TT owners. Aren't you asked what kind of dog that is over and over?? I say T Terrier and they think Terrier. Then I say, no, they are called that but aren't really a Terrier. More like a small sheepdog! Mia had her first trim, we are not going to show her and I am not ready to deal with all of the hair. It went okay. I am still confused about the food but at least we aren't feeding Old Roy from Walmart!


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## TibetanFan (Aug 31, 2007)

Hi Cobalt,
Yes I love my Tibetan! I am a first time dog owner and got her because we love the calm easy going nature of this breed. Also 3 out of 4 of us in my house have dog allergies and we're fine with her. People don't know what a TT is! Even though there are a few others in my town, I still get blank stares when I say what she is. Maybe that will change when she gets in her top coat and looks more like an adult TT. As far as the food, my vet say around 1 year to go off the puppy food. The opinions here are so opposite from that that I plan to call other vets and my breeder to see what they think. These boards are fabulous for information but I definately wouldn't make any decisions based only on a few people's opinions. Mostly these boards educate me so I know what questions I should even be asking!


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## xx aussie shep love xx (Aug 20, 2007)

we switched our dogs food to adult food after she was about 8 or 9 months, thats what our breeder told us to do


im not sure if thats right, i was in 2nd grade at the time. but those numbers ring a bell...somewhere


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## woundgal (Oct 1, 2007)

I have a 2.5 lb Maltese puppy. I feed Innova Evo small bites. From my reading feeding a good quality food doesn't need to specify for "puppys". I agree with the other comments that it is a marketing niche. Feeding quality food is the goal.


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## Dieselboxers (Dec 10, 2007)

When we get a pup, we bring it home eight weeks, I keep them on the food the breeder has fed for a month. Too much changing all at once. New home, new smells, new people Then, I switch to adult food, grain free if they can tollerate it after 18 months. No need for puppy food.


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## rogueslg71 (Dec 6, 2007)

i'm about to switch my lhasa apso puppy to dog food, shes 13 months old now and has been on pro plan for puppies. im wondering what to change to since i saw the thread with the calculator and pro plan adult food got F's =( i found this website k9cuisine and am thinking about orijin or addicted? does anyone have any thoughts on those and also how slowly should i switch??


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