# 2 types of poms??



## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

ok so i am trying to learn all i can about my poms coat, she is now 7 months old and is growing a very pretty coat in, but her coat is more soft shiny then it is fluffy so i was looking up why it was like this when i came across a forum were it said that there are 2 types of poms standard poms and "fox" poms? now people also say there are teacup poms or "mini" poms but i know that a lot of people on this forum disagree on that, so what are your thoughts on this. do you think that there are "fox" poms? is my pom going to be smooth and silky instead of puffy? or is this another breeders made up breed. 
if any one has any tips to help my poms coat look more full and puffy that would be nice ^.^ her coat is very healthy we feed her great food and i brush her about once a week, is that to often? her skin is also exceptional, not a flake in site.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Mother Gaia said:


> ok so i am trying to learn all i can about my poms coat, she is now 7 months old and is growing a very pretty coat in, but her coat is more soft shiny then it is fluffy so i was looking up why it was like this when i came across a forum were it said that there are 2 types of poms standard poms and "fox" poms? now people also say there are teacup poms or "mini" poms but i know that a lot of people on this forum disagree on that, so what are your thoughts on this. do you think that there are "fox" poms? is my pom going to be smooth and silky instead of puffy? or is this another breeders made up breed.
> if any one has any tips to help my poms coat look more full and puffy that would be nice ^.^ her coat is very healthy we feed her great food and i brush her about once a week, is that to often? her skin is also exceptional, not a flake in site.


I've heard "non puffy" pet quality poms referred to as "flat coated poms". I have zero knowledge about pomeranians, except that I want one, and I prefer the pet coat to a poufy show coat. 
I know in papillons, it can take up to 3 years for their coat to come in fully. Maybe this is true for poms. A customer of mine has 2 poms, one is an adult and is very poufy. The younger dog is about 18 months old, and in just the past 6 months or so has really gotten a heck of a puffy coat. I groom a few who don't carry that much coat into adulthood, and they tend to mat less.


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## Bordermom (Apr 28, 2010)

Depends a lot on where you got your dog from. Where the parents poofy show dogs? With lots of coat? Or? Usually dogs will look a lot like their parents, so if they have lots of coat then you'd know what to expect. If the parents didn't have a ton of coat then don't expect poofies....

Poofies.... that's a fun word. If it helps, my one golden has a ton of coat, but comes from show lines on both parents. My younger dog has not so much coat, but her dad is a field dog so she isn't going to be a hairy critter. 

Lana


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## MoosMom (Sep 15, 2009)

They don't offer two coat varieties in show. Its all genes. Some are bad some are good.


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## grab (Sep 26, 2009)

There are not varying types of Poms. There are plenty of Poms who do not meet the standard to be show quality (which does not affect their ability to be a great pet), but there are not different types. There are no "mini" or "toy" Poms, nor any of the other descriptions. There are plenty of Poms who outgrow the size they'd need be to compete in a show ring, but it doesn't make them a different type.

What sort of breeder did you get your dog from? Did they show the other dogs? Were the parents champions? (thus, likely to be of a proper size) What type of coats did they have? By looking at the parents, you should get at least a fair estimate of the appearance your pup will have.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

grab said:


> There are not varying types of Poms. There are plenty of Poms who do not meet the standard to be show quality (which does not affect their ability to be a great pet), but there are not different types. There are no "mini" or "toy" Poms, nor any of the other descriptions. There are plenty of Poms who outgrow the size they'd need be to compete in a show ring, but it doesn't make them a different type.
> 
> What sort of breeder did you get your dog from? Did they show the other dogs? Were the parents champions? (thus, likely to be of a proper size) What type of coats did they have? By looking at the parents, you should get at least a fair estimate of the appearance your pup will have.


I got my pup from a small breeder who was in it for the love of the breed and more of breeding healthy pups then the show quality pups. i got to see both parents, ( my little girl looks more like the dad i think) and i remember them being rather fluffy just not cut to look rounded. the mother had lost a lot of her fluffy fur from the pregnancy, ( and before anyone freaks about that saying that shouldn't happen, it is natural for some mom dogs to loose a lot of fur after giving birth because of all the hormonal changes. i have done my research.) 
I think my little pom just hasn't grown her undercoat in yet. and she could use a trim and a good rounding hair cut.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Poms are only trimmed a few places. To round and neaten the ends of the ears, the hair on the bottom of the feet, and to clean near the anus.

I will just repeat what I say when people try to talk to me about German vs. American Rottweilers. Yes, there are 2 types. Correct, and incorrect.

When you say a Pom has a flat coat, you are describing a dog without the correct undercoat. 

The full profuse harsh off-standing topcoat is a hallmark of the Pomeranian breed. A correct full undercoat not only protects the dog from harsh weather, it is also a major component of a correct topcoat. Lack of undercoat causes the topcoat to lie flat. Soft, flat or open coats are major faults in the Pomeranian. A Pomeranian with a flat coat is lacking in Breed type.

Caring breeders breed not only for good health, but also for correct Breed type. IMO it is irresponsible to breed for one and not the other.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> Poms are only trimmed a few places. To round and neaten the ends of the ears, the hair on the bottom of the feet, and to clean near the anus.
> 
> I will just repeat what I say when people try to talk to me about German vs. American Rottweilers. Yes, there are 2 types. Correct, and incorrect.
> 
> ...


 when i purchased my little pom i was still a little new to the whole "buying from a breeder." all my past dogs i have had were usually mutts from a shelter. I was mostly concerned about getting a loving caring breeder that wasn't a puppy mill and had healthy sweet dogs, i still don't care to much about having champion blood in my dog, but i understand that if breeders don't breed for the standard then the entire breed changes and lacks what it is suppose to look like. our little girl was only $300.00 and for that price i think we have an amazing little pom.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> Poms are only trimmed a few places. To round and neaten the ends of the ears, the hair on the bottom of the feet, and to clean near the anus.


Show Poms in the ring nowadays have a lot more than just those things trimmed and shaped:










vs










Trimming to alter the outline of the dog used to be a DQ in the standard for many years I believe, but that's not a rule in the current one. I'm not sure when/if the standard was changed or if the current ring fashion just developed on it's own. In any event, they're much more heavily groomed nowadays than they used to be.


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## Patt (Feb 12, 2008)

Possibly she doesn't have her full adult coat yet. Here's the AKC standard on Poms check the info on coats.

http://www.akc.org/breeds/pomeranian/index.cfm


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## Michiyo-Fir (Jul 25, 2009)

I agree with Red on this. There are all sorts of different coat types but only one of them is the correct one. 

For example, in my breed Papillons the dogs could end up with a single coat or a double coat. A double coat would be the incorrect coat to have, it is a different coat but it's not the acceptable one. Doesn't make them any worse pets though.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

Michiyo-Fir said:


> I agree with Red on this. There are all sorts of different coat types but only one of them is the correct one.
> 
> *For example, in my breed Papillons the dogs could end up with a single coat or a double coat. A double coat would be the incorrect coat to have, it is a different coat but it's not the acceptable one. Doesn't make them any worse pets though*.


Tag is dropping hair, and when I comb him out I get a comb or two's worth of "soft" fuzzy hair. I think he's got a double coat.
As far as the pom pictures go, the sculpted look isn't something I care for. I like poms to look natural


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Mother Gaia said:


> when i purchased my little pom i was still a little new to the whole "buying from a breeder." all my past dogs i have had were usually mutts from a shelter. I was mostly concerned about getting a loving caring breeder that wasn't a puppy mill and* had healthy *sweet dogs, i still don't care to much about having champion blood in my dog, but i understand that if breeders don't breed for the standard then the entire breed changes and lacks what it is suppose to look like. our little girl was only $300.00 and for that price i think we have an amazing little pom.


just wondering how you knew her dogs were healthy? I have met several Poms who suffer from luxating patellas when they get older (7-8 years) and people would have said those dogs looked healthy when they were younger.


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## luv2byte (Oct 21, 2009)

Its probably how it is with American Eskimos - some have a super soft rabit fur coat that is fluffy then there are eskies I've seen that are SUPER SUPER fluffy with either a very rough feeling coat or a semi-soft feeling coat. I've also seen eskies with very dense coats, so thick it would seem impossible to ever see their skin, to others that are fluffy but not very dense. I've also met eskie who blow their coat in traditional methods then there are ones like my Chloe that its just a semi-heavy shed, no major clumps. Its all in genetics.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

Keechak said:


> just wondering how you knew her dogs were healthy? I have met several Poms who suffer from luxating patellas when they get older (7-8 years) and people would have said those dogs looked healthy when they were younger.


She had a health history for her breeding poms, witch were my poms parents. none of them or their blood line dating way back had the luxating patellas, the only problem she had seen with any of the puppies that had come from her breeding pair was one pup who was allergic to vaccines. (and it just so happened my little girl was the second.) she also had a very healthy 15 year old pom who was just adorable. but truthfully i don't think i was careful enough, like i said in anther comment, this was my first time buying from a breeder and i got her for only $300.00, she could have lied to me about the health history. i wasn't quite sure what to ask for as proof... i'm still not sure what to look or ask for. i also was such a noob i thought my pom came with AKC registration, but when i got the pup i found it was ACA.


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## Mother Gaia (Mar 2, 2010)

Patt said:


> Possibly she doesn't have her full adult coat yet. Here's the AKC standard on Poms check the info on coats.
> 
> http://www.akc.org/breeds/pomeranian/index.cfm


I think so as well, she is only 7 months and i read that it takes up to 2 years before their coat comes in all the way.


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## spanielorbust (Jan 3, 2009)

Keechak said:


> just wondering how you knew her dogs were healthy? I have met several Poms who suffer from luxating patellas when they get older (7-8 years) and people would have said those dogs looked healthy when they were younger.


Keechak, as someone who has talked to a lot of toy dog breeders asking specific questions, on line and at shows, I can tell you that this answer is never an easy one to get - from the vast majority of breeders.

The OFA screen for luxating patellas is commonly done by a qualified veterinarian that grades patellas on a 1,2, 3 or 4 basis. I know quite a few breeders (that I've asked at shows about this) and they screen through their vets and keep their own records of ancestors. A HUGE number do not get the paperwork done, for various reasons, even though they screen (or say they do). It seems that often their word is expected to be trusted on this. I have found this fairly standard across the board for most of the Toy Breeds.

Just in regards to Pomeranians, luxating patellas truly are a concern.

This OFA page puts the Pomeranian breed at the top for patella failure rate (43.7%): http://www.offa.org/patluxstatbreed.html

At the following links you will find the form the vet fills out for the breeder (for a fee) with the descriptions of the grading. 

http://www.offa.org/patluxinfo.html

http://www.offa.org/plappbw.pdf

SOB


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