# Food for dog with Crystals in urine



## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

Two weeks ago I took Jasper into the vet because he was drinking a lot, and peeing a lot. We ran a urinalysis and it was high protein and high PH. The PH level was a 8 out of 10. He was on Cephalexin 500 MG Capsules, 1 capsule twice a day. I took him back to the vet today and we ran another urinalysis. The same results came back as last time. Though this time when they read his urine slide it had a few crystals on it that were not there before. The vet told me that when we recheck in two more weeks if he has more crystals she wants to put him on W/D Science Diet. I am not comforable with that at all. I do not like Science Diet food. It has been hard enough finding a food he does good on, and now they are wanting me to swtich him again. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

He has been on:
Purina puppy Chow (When I first got him. We moved him to a 5 star food shortly after I got him)
Earthborn (Farting, and diarrhea)
Acana (Diarrhea)
Taste if the Wild (Would not eat it well)
4Health 
Professional (He LOVES this food)


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## VanLeeRet (Feb 23, 2013)

You didn't mention what kind of crystals or if the dog had a UTI.


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## Dog Person (Sep 14, 2012)

My Vet wanted Zoey off of high protein foods just because she felt a pet doesn't need as much protein as a working dog. There has been a lot of discussion on the pros and cons of protein and I'm not going there with this. If he is having problems maybe switching him to a lower protein food may help and I'm sure the Science Diet is way lower in animal protein. Not sure what Professional is but maybe a food with less protein, a 4 star food, would be helpful. Zoey is on Pinnacle Grain Free and it is like 27% protein, she was on Orijen before. 2 weeks is not a long time and switching now may not work in time for the test but it is your dog and you can start the switch and if it doesn't improve then you can have him tested once the switch is completed for a short while. I think going from higher protein to lower protein is easier on a dog and may take less time then the reverse but I don't know for sure.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

As much water as possible, to dilute the urine enough that the crystals don't form. Canned food, if possible (he's big, so that could be too expensive), or add water to his kibble.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Yeah you need to mention what type of crystals for people to give you proper recommendations  For a dog with struvite crystals (the most common form), you will want to increase the animal protein intake to make the urine more acidic. When urine is TOO acidic, you obviously want to do the opposite.

I've never heard of a single dog doing badly on a high protein diet, pet or not. All of my fosters have been on a high protein diet and I have seen them become significantly healthier under my care  It's an ongoing debate, but I am all for high protein diets for dogs. My dog hardly gets any veggies or other things, mostly animal protein (he's on the raw diet), and he hasn't had issues, even when switching from a much lower protein diet.


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## VanLeeRet (Feb 23, 2013)

Struvites are due to a UTI and that is the most common of them. The minerals and some proteins that form crystals are always in the urine but they form crystals when the PH of the urine is off, too high or too low.

However, the high protein could be cystine. So let your vet give you advice.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

^+1

Was a culture done? Perhaps the antibiotic wasn't the right one for that infection. I knew to have the vet take a sterile sample directly from the bladder and have that cultured to both find the bacteria and to identify it so the appropriate antibiotic could be used.

If urine pH is high then it is natural for struvite crystals to precipitate out of the urine. If the pH is neutral or slightly acidic then that particular crystal won't form. The pH is generally high because there is an infection. 

And there are very few times keeping well hydrated is a poor way to go. More water is usually a good thing.


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## WestieLove (Jan 29, 2012)

There are different types of stones so you need to be more specific. Personally, I would fallow the advise of your veterinarian. There is nothing wrong with his diet recommendation (short or long term). I am tired of hearing people diss these foods that clearly help some major medical issues in pets. IF you are that aginst a prescription diet then I would work with a veterinary nutrition specialist (a veterinarian specializing in nutrition) for an alternative diet to get rid and prevent crystals. Especially if your unsure what kind of crystals your dealing with. I don't think is something you should be getting recommendations for online - work with a professional. 

Not all dogs can do well on a high protein diet, I have seen a lot of problems associated with these very high protein foods. They are not for all dogs.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm not too familiar with the effects of prescribed dry food for dogs, but I know it's a DISASTER for cats. If your cat has urinary issues, you should NOT be feeding a dry food, even if it is vet prescribed to help with the issue. First of all, cats are supposed to get most of the moisture from their diet from their food, not water. Second of all, they are obligate carnivores, so corn and other grains are taxing on their kidneys. Third of all, why pay so much money to achieve the same effect for an overpriced bag of corn that has been injected with chemicals, when you can offer a natural, biologically appropriate diet for them and get the same results?

I feel the same about dogs. Why would I shell out that much money for a chemically balanced bag of corn that will be harder to digest when I can offer a natural, more digestible, alternative and get the same results for cheaper?

WestieLove, just curious, what types of problems you have seen with high protein foods?


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## WestieLove (Jan 29, 2012)

Everyone is going to have their own opinion on prescription diets. 

What clinic told you to feed your cat soley a dry diet? I completely agree if your cat has urinary issues that a dry food is not going to be your best option because you need to increase its water consumption. I recommended canned food only for urinary issues in the beginning. Blocked cats are not uncommon and we have only ever sent home canned food to get through x number days and recommend they go back to their referring veterinarian (we're after hours) to get more. These diets are formulated and scientifically tested to dissolve and prevent crystals. Your not going to find a commercial diet with the same controlled levels of calcium, magnesium and phosphorus and oxalate. If you wish to do an at home diet - work with a professional ... not against them. This isn't always an option for everyone so I think its great there are affordable prescription diets to do this. Just browsed the ingredients of two prescription brands urinary foods ... (canned formula) not full of corn. Injected with chemicals? I would love to know where your getting this information... Judge prescrption foods less. They are there to help people and believe me ... we make them affordable because there are a lot of families out there who have to work within tight financial guidelines. 


What are your more "natural, more digestible, alternative and get the same results for cheaper" ???? 

What prices are in your area is going to vary so saying cheaper ... may not be the case for someone elses area. Our pet store foods are certainly not cheaper then the veterinary. 

The same problems that can happen on just about any food will happen on a high protein "oh so natural diet" ... they aren't bad but they aren't for every dog either. I find these diets that are high in protein are often high in calcium : phosphorus and other minerals. Problems like urinary crystals and bladder stones, chronic diarrhea, weight gain etc. they may work great for some dogs but certainly not all. 

It's clear its not the right food for the OP's dog and a switch is in order.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

WestieLove said:


> Everyone is going to have their own opinion on prescription diets.
> 
> What clinic told you to feed your cat soley a dry diet? I completely agree if your cat has urinary issues that a dry food is not going to be your best option because you need to increase its water consumption. I recommended canned food only for urinary issues in the beginning. Blocked cats are not uncommon and we have only ever sent home canned food to get through x number days and recommend they go back to their referring veterinarian (we're after hours) to get more. These diets are formulated and scientifically tested to dissolve and prevent crystals. Your not going to find a commercial diet with the same controlled levels of calcium, magnesium and phosphorus and oxalate. If you wish to do an at home diet - work with a professional ... not against them. This isn't always an option for everyone so I think its great there are affordable prescription diets to do this. Just browsed the ingredients of two prescription brands urinary foods ... (canned formula) not full of corn. Injected with chemicals? I would love to know where your getting this information... Judge prescrption foods less. They are there to help people and believe me ... we make them affordable because there are a lot of families out there who have to work within tight financial guidelines.
> 
> ...



I'm not here to argue, WestieLove, so I apologize if I came off that way. Like I said in the post to the OP, I suggested that he/she should let us know what type of problem the dog is having.

Which two brands did you look at? I'd like to know since the ones I have seen readily available at most vets are made with grain. When my cat developed urinary crystals (the struvite kind), I was advised on switching him to a prescription wet food, designed to chemically change the pH balance of the urine. It still contained tons of grains though, which is funny considering struvite crystals causing sterile cystitis is caused by basic urine, and chronic dehydration. I was feeding wet food once a day and controlled portions of vet recommended food when this happened (Royal Canin, wherein I believe the second or third ingredient is corn). In the case of struvite crystals, you do not need to feed a chemically balanced food to make the pH acidic again. I was able to do this by feeding my cats raw, which also solved the dehydration issue. THAT is the type of vet food that people are leery of. Cats, in general, should not be fed dry at all, and this is common knowledge to people that have done just a tiny bit of research into cat nutrition... so why are vets still offering dry foods. Furthermore, why are they still putting corn and other grains (even though cats cannot digest grains) into their foods, and then chemically changing the balance? I guess it's because it's cheaper... which is funny because I would have paid more for the canned vet recommended food that was recommended. Both my cats cost me approximately $20 a week on raw... It would have cost double the amount (At least $2.50 per can, so that's going to ONE cat since it's usually 6-8 lbs of body weight). And to add, my cat has had no flareup of cystitis ever since being on his new diet, which was not my vet's (even though I love him for all things otherwise) recommendation (it wasn't against his, but it was not what he had suggested).

Anyway, this is about dogs, not cats, but that is why I am personally leery of vet recommended foods. I was just explaining why some people may not always trust a vet's recommendation 100%.

EDIT:
I would also like to know which prescription formulas for cats with urinary problems is grain free (or does it just not contain corn?). Sounds very interesting considering I have never since such formulas (not trying to sound snarky, I am seriously interested.. would suggest it to my vet to bring it in then )

EDIT 2:

Just to add, these are the following ingredients from commercially available prescription diets:

Prescription Diet® c/d® Multicare Feline Bladder Health with Chicken:
Pork By-Products, Water, Pork Liver, Chicken, Rice, Corn Starch, Oat Fiber, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Fish Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Calcium Sulfate, Guar Gum, Fish Oil, Brewers Dried Yeast, Glucose, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Taurine, Cysteine, Calcium Carbonate, Dried Egg Yolk, Glycine, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate.

Purina UR Urinary St/Ox® Feline Formula:
Ingredients (Dry):
Corn gluten meal, chicken, poultry by-product meal, brewers rice, oat fiber, wheat gluten, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), salt, animal liver flavor, phosphoric acid, dried egg product, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, fish oil, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.


Ingredients (Canned)
Meat by-products, water sufficient for processing, liver, chicken, poultry by-products, rice, calcium gluconate, oat fiber, guar gum, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, caramel color, carrageenan, salt, taurine, Vitamin E supplement, calcium phosphate, zinc sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, copper sulfate, niacin, Vitamin B-12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin D-3 supplement, folic acid, potassium iodide, biotin.

Royal Canin Urinary S/O diet:

Wet:
Water Sufficient for Processing, Pork By-Products, Chicken Liver, Chicken, Corn Flour, Chicken By-Products, Powdered Cellulose, Dried Egg Product, Calcium Sulphate, Guar Gum, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Natural Flavour, Carrageenan, Fish Oil, Taurine, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Vitamins (DL-Alpha-Tocopherol Acetate [Source of Vitamin E], Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Niacin Supplement, Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement [Vitamin B2], Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid and Vitamin D3 Supplement), Trace Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Iron Sulphate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite and Calcium Iodate) and Marigold Extract (Source of Lutein).Approximately 148 kcal/can, 165 g/can

Dry:
Chicken Meal, Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Corn, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavour, Soy Protein Isolate, Powdered Cellulose, Salt, Dried Egg Powder, Dried Brewer’s Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Fish Oil, Sodium Bisulphate, Calcium Sulphate, Soybean Oil, Taurine, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Vitamins (DL-Alpha-Tocopherol [Source of Vitamin E], Niacin, Biotin, Riboflavin [Vitamin B2], D-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Vitamin A Acetate, Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement and Vitamin D3 Supplement), Trace Minerals (Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate and Sodium Selenite) and Marigold Extract (Source of Lutein). Naturally Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract and Citric Acid. Approximately 292 kcal/cup, 386 kcal/100 g, 76 g/cup



Oh, and if you want the list for dry from the main three companies, feel free to ask, because it is pretty similar.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

Its been a while and I forgot I even made this thread. SORRY! I am still having problems though.  I will try to go though and address all of the replys. 

I am also having another problem...well I have been have it for a long time I just figured it would get better with a stable food pattern.

Jasper has been on professional for a while now. And has been doing well, much better than on any other food he has been on. The problem is that he has _always_ had loose stool. Not liquid just....soft serve so to speak. It really irritating to say the least. I am constantly having to wash his butt off. I am just wondering if anyone has had this issue before? I have had his stool checked multiple times. I have also had them do exams, xrays, etc. The vet told me that I should look into a LID. I was thinking about trying Natural Blanace Sweet Potato & Fish. I have read some good things about it helping with chronic loose stools. I'm not feeding too much because I have tired feeding less and the same thing still. And I feed less than the recommended anyways. We also do not feed lots of treats. He gets maybe 5 pea sized training treats a day or a little bit of frozen peas. I'm just kind of at my wits in with this dog. haha he has been do good except for his health. 



VanLeeRet said:


> You didn't mention what kind of crystals or if the dog had a UTI.


He does have a UTI and has been on 3 rounds of meds now. He was on Cephalexin 500 MG Capsules twice, and now is on Clavomox 250MG Tablets. The Cephalexin didn't help at all. He has been on the Clavomox for about 5 1/2 days now. He has struvite crystals. He still has them this last time we went in.



Dog Person said:


> My Vet wanted Zoey off of high protein foods just because she felt a pet doesn't need as much protein as a working dog. There has been a lot of discussion on the pros and cons of protein and I'm not going there with this. If he is having problems maybe switching him to a lower protein food may help and I'm sure the Science Diet is way lower in animal protein. Not sure what Professional is but maybe a food with less protein, a 4 star food, would be helpful. Zoey is on Pinnacle Grain Free and it is like 27% protein, she was on Orijen before. 2 weeks is not a long time and switching now may not work in time for the test but it is your dog and you can start the switch and if it doesn't improve then you can have him tested once the switch is completed for a short while. I think going from higher protein to lower protein is easier on a dog and may take less time then the reverse but I don't know for sure.


Thanks for replying. Professional is a 4 star food with I believe 21-22% Protein in it. He has been on professional for a while now and loves it. My vet did tell me that she wanted him on a lower protein food.



Willowy said:


> As much water as possible, to dilute the urine enough that the crystals don't form. Canned food, if possible (he's big, so that could be too expensive), or add water to his kibble.


Thanks for replying. I have him on Canned 4 health along with his dry food. Right now he is getting:

1 cup dry, 1/3 cup wet food, 1/2 tsp Aller G3( once a day only-he has flea allergies), and 1/2 tsp Soild Gold Berry Balance. 
The barry balance was recommeded by a holistic vet for his Crystals. I just started it 2 days ago.



taquitos said:


> Yeah you need to mention what type of crystals for people to give you proper recommendations  For a dog with struvite crystals (the most common form), you will want to increase the animal protein intake to make the urine more acidic. When urine is TOO acidic, you obviously want to do the opposite.
> 
> I've never heard of a single dog doing badly on a high protein diet, pet or not. All of my fosters have been on a high protein diet and I have seen them become significantly healthier under my care  It's an ongoing debate, but I am all for high protein diets for dogs. My dog hardly gets any veggies or other things, mostly animal protein (he's on the raw diet), and he hasn't had issues, even when switching from a much lower protein diet.


Thanks for replying. Yeah sorry I had forgot to mention the type before. All of my dogs have always been on a high protein food so when they told me that I should lower it I was supprised. I have heard of some dogs not doing well on it before though.



VanLeeRet said:


> Struvites are due to a UTI and that is the most common of them. The minerals and some proteins that form crystals are always in the urine but they form crystals when the PH of the urine is off, too high or too low.
> 
> However, the high protein could be cystine. So let your vet give you advice.


Thanks for the reply. 



Kathyy said:


> ^+1
> 
> Was a culture done? Perhaps the antibiotic wasn't the right one for that infection. I knew to have the vet take a sterile sample directly from the bladder and have that cultured to both find the bacteria and to identify it so the appropriate antibiotic could be used.
> 
> ...


It was not done the first or second time but it was done this last time. He has water avalible to him at all times day and night.



WestieLove said:


> There are different types of stones so you need to be more specific. Personally, I would fallow the advise of your veterinarian. There is nothing wrong with his diet recommendation (short or long term). I am tired of hearing people diss these foods that clearly help some major medical issues in pets. IF you are that aginst a prescription diet then I would work with a veterinary nutrition specialist (a veterinarian specializing in nutrition) for an alternative diet to get rid and prevent crystals. Especially if your unsure what kind of crystals your dealing with. I don't think is something you should be getting recommendations for online - work with a professional.
> 
> Not all dogs can do well on a high protein diet, I have seen a lot of problems associated with these very high protein foods. They are not for all dogs.


Thanks for the reply. Yes sorry I was not more clear last time. I forgot to add what kind of crystals he has. I do believe that SD does help some dogs. I do not like the food myself but would never tell someone else not to follow the advice of their vet. I work at a vets office and most of our clients use it. I have no problem with other people using the food. I myself though would prefer not too. And yes I know that I can't find all the answers I am looking for just on a dog forum. I have seen a holistic vet as well as my normal vet. I do agree that not all dogs do good on a high protein diet. None of my dogs have ever had a problem with it though.


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## Gally (Jan 11, 2012)

Don't think anyone posted this yet. You might find it helpful: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjstruvites.html#struvites


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

Gally said:


> Don't think anyone posted this yet. You might find it helpful: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjstruvites.html#struvites


Thank you.


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## Shoul (May 8, 2012)

Gally said:


> Don't think anyone posted this yet. You might find it helpful: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjstruvites.html#struvites


Thanks you! Simon recently got a bladder infection and both the sample that tested positive for infection, and the one three days after finishing meds that tested negative, had high PH levels. To which my vet just recommended I switch to SD C/D. When I asked him what it was about these foods that would help so I could make up my own mind, he mentioned about the AAFCO statement and high levels of calcium in pet store brands which wasn't much to go on. This link, on the other hand, was super helpful! :clap2: 

Plus looking at the first few ingredient list for SD C/D: 
Whole grain corn, pork fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken by-product meal, soybean meal, corn gluten meal, soybean mill run

Not something I particularly want to feed my dog.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

I have just gone through this with Kris, my Dobe pup. I thought she had a UTI as one day she peed a lot more than usual when we were out walking and seemed to have trouble going. Then she never did it again but about two weeks later she had a slight discharge, nothing else, eating, drinking and peeing normally but I took her into the Vet just to check it out. She had struvite crystals in her urine and the Vet said she would check with their Food representative to see what type of food to put her on as she is a puppy. (probably Hills). They informed her that it was not unusual to find Struvite crystals in urine and did not recommend any change in her food. The Vet did not seem at all concerned with the discharge, said it was probably a little discharge from the uterous and did not give me anything for it.
http://easytospot.blogs.com/easy_to...nary-tract-infections-treatment-and-diet.html


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Damon's mom It is frustrating for many owners that have to deal with this. I have tryed the LID foods. My Dobie did good on them while he had some issues with his poo. My suggestion to you is if you do switch him to this food that you stop the berry supplement. The only reason why is because of the beef added to the ingredients. I would just give him cranberry pills instead. I have seen that just by adding cranberries to a dog/cats diet did help the animal out. 

Soft poo problem--I do not know who you use for an outside lab for your vet clinic. We use Idexx. You probably have done it already but I would do a fecal panel through your lab source.

On the prescription diets- does seem to help cats from re-blocking. The problems I have seen is when the owners because of cost switch the cat back to store food. Usually dry. Usually cheap lower end food. My sympathies go for the poor cat. Having to pee and just can't. I have and I am sure many others who work in a vet setting have seen the cat who does not make it because the owner waited so long to bring the cat in. The poor little thing.


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## Damon'sMom (Aug 2, 2011)

Thank you all. 

With only 1 week on the Berry Balance Supplement and the Crystals and UTI are gone. I am very happy with this product. I am now only giving it every monday instead of everyday. I had tried 5 different antibiotics before just using the SG BB. None of the antibiotics worked for him and the SG worked within a week. And it has continued to keep his problems away.  It has cranberries in it. 

We use Antech as our send out lab. I have sent out a fecal panel and everything came back fine. 

I have been out of town for 3 weeks (family problems). I came home last night to find that the place were I boarded Jasper (not at my clinic) had not been feeding him the Professional I had left for him. They told me "Well he was having loose stools and it worried us" I was livid! I had told them before that he had this problem. They had been feeding him Purina Pro plan, Purina dog chow and Purina One mix. They told me he was having perfectly normal dog stools. One of the workers even went as far as to tell me "you should be greatful we found something to help him." I was_ almost_ stunned silent...almost. They expected me to pay for the food they gave him. I did not. And before I left they told me that they had thrown out my 35 pound bag of Professional dog food. UGH.


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