# Dog crying for full day after anesthesia



## Zwolf (Apr 7, 2016)

On Sunday, my 7y/o Pitbull stepped on glass while out for a walk and needed surgery to remove it and stitch the cuts. He was fine after that, slept all day and was a little groggy the next two days, but he was eating and drinking right and was generally in a good mood. Only issue was that the bandage the vets wrapped on him fell off on its own day 1, so we had to make do with some bandage wraps we had at home. It was our first time going to this vet since our usual one is closed Sundays and this was the only 24/7 one nearby.

Yesterday, Wednesday, we went back to the vet for a follow-up and to rewrap his bandages. His stitches were fine, no bleeding, just some minor irritation between two of his digits. We weren't allowed in the back with our dog, and eventually the doc came out and told us he was too stressed out and wouldn't let them wrap the bandage or put ointment on the irritated digits, so they wanted to put him under anesthesia again. My father and I tried to say no and to let us just go back there and try to calm him first, but the doc said something that amounted to "Um, well you see, no." So we had no choice but to let them sedate.

It's been a over 24 hours since going under anesthesia for a second time in a week and he hasn't stop crying and pacing since we got back, and he has a bug eyed look on his face near constantly. Is this normal or did something go wrong? The whole situation with the vet felt very fishy and I don't know if this is expected or if they did something to him. Making him go under again felt extremely unnecessary and I hope it didn't harm him.


----------



## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Sedation and anesthesia are two different things. Sedation is lighter and can be quickly reversed, which is what your dog underwent the second time. So he has not been under anesthesia twice in a week, nor is his crying a response to anesthesia. It's a potential response to sedation, however.

Vets generally do not allow non-staff into back areas because if something happens to you in their business, even if your own dog bites you, they are potentially liable for damages. So that is normal. And sedating a dog who is too fearful or in too much pain to otherwise be treated and re-bandaged is not 'extremely unnecessary', it's actually highly necessary for the safety of the staff and for the mental well-being of the dog.

I imagine that his whining is a response to the pressure sores/irritation he has on his toes, which are probably very uncomfortable, and a reaction to the stress of two vet visits and probably minimal exercise since the injury occurred. 

If he is not eating or drinking normally, or eliminating normally, within another 24 hours, I'd take him back to the vet. In the mean time, try to encourage him to settle with high value bones that he can chew calmly on.


----------



## Zwolf (Apr 7, 2016)

Confusing the two words once in my post was my mistake, it was anesthesia and not sedation. I doubt they'd have specifically charged us for anesthesia otherwise haha.

Seems I got "lucky" with my normal vet, huh. They let owners in the back for anything that isn't surgery or xrays, usually so they can ask us questions as they work. What I mostly found unnecessary was not allowing us to try to calm him so we didn't have to resort to anesthesia, and then the lack of proper reasoning why we couldn't. If they phrased it like you did I'd have no issue, but it sounded like they couldn't explain to us what was happening. Guess that gave _me_ a bit of anxiety ^^'

Thank you for your advice, though, I'll be keeping an eye on him!


----------



## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Zwolf said:


> Confusing the two words once in my post was my mistake, it was anesthesia and not sedation. I doubt they'd have specifically charged us for anesthesia otherwise haha.
> 
> Seems I got "lucky" with my normal vet, huh. They let owners in the back for anything that isn't surgery or xrays, usually so they can ask us questions as they work. What I mostly found unnecessary was not allowing us to try to calm him so we didn't have to resort to anesthesia, and then the lack of proper reasoning why we couldn't. If they phrased it like you did I'd have no issue, but it sounded like they couldn't explain to us what was happening. Guess that gave _me_ a bit of anxiety ^^'
> 
> Thank you for your advice, though, I'll be keeping an eye on him!


Anesthesia is used for surgical procedures. It usually requires bloodwork, an IV for fluids, heart monitoring, potentially a cardiac exam beforehand, etc. It also takes many hours for a dog to fully wake up from anesthesia, which is why dogs stay at the veterinary clinic at least 4-5 hours after most surgeries.

If he was treated and then you took him home directly afterwards, he was not anesthetized, he was sedated. If you were charged for anesthesia, I'd call the billing department and ask them why.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Hiraeth said:


> Anesthesia is used for surgical procedures. It usually requires bloodwork, an IV for fluids, heart monitoring, potentially a cardiac exam beforehand, etc. It also takes many hours for a dog to fully wake up from anesthesia, which is why dogs stay at the veterinary clinic at least 4-5 hours after most surgeries.
> 
> If he was treated and then you took him home directly afterwards, he was not anesthetized, he was sedated. If you were charged for anesthesia, I'd call the billing department and ask them why.


Um, typically, but not always.

I picked Molly up about an hour after she was out of surgery and I PROMISE you they didn't spay her under sedation. There were extenuating reasons for that, but it's a thing. Kylie was also home very, very quickly (more than an hour, less than 4) because of other circumstances (Dog stress with Molly, with Kylie it was weather).

Also, I really, really, don't find most people (read vets) around here do heart monitoring, blood work before surgery as standard , and the only cardiac exam is a listen with a 'scope. Sometimes. Maybe. Certainly none of it's standard, though I won't speak to the IV for sure. I've never gotten a dog back with the typical leg shave from routine surgery (alterations, tumor removals, dentals). 

Basically, it's an involved as owner and vet want it to be, but not a single one of those things is an absolute certainty.


----------



## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

My dog was sedated for a procedure last week and he also cried for the rest of the day. He was better the next day, still uncomfortable but not crying anymore. I think it was a combination of stress from being away from us, handled by unfamiliar people in a scary place, the drowsiness/grogginess of being sedated, and then just pain from the procedure. Did they send you home with any pain meds originally? And, what do you mean by he looks bug eyed?


----------



## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

> Also, I really, really, don't find most people (read vets) around here do heart monitoring, blood work before surgery as standard , and the only cardiac exam is a listen with a 'scope. Sometimes. Maybe. Certainly none of it's standard, though I won't speak to the IV for sure. I've never gotten a dog back with the typical leg shave from routine surgery (alterations, tumor removals, dentals).


Same here. It's not standard at all. 

Anesthesia makes you feel weird. If he isn't feeling better by tomorrow give the vet a call.


----------



## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

CptJack said:


> Um, typically, but not always.
> 
> I picked Molly up about an hour after she was out of surgery and I PROMISE you they didn't spay her under sedation. There were extenuating reasons for that, but it's a thing. Kylie was also home very, very quickly (more than an hour, less than 4) because of other circumstances (Dog stress with Molly, with Kylie it was weather).
> 
> ...


In my rather extensive experience with vets and dogs, I have NEVER heard of a dog being anesthetized and released in a period of time less than three hours, and usually not less than six. 

And I certainly have never heard of a dog being fully anesthetized for a bandage change and a quick wound cleaning. That would be ridiculous and unnecessary. The dog needs to be lightly sedated for 15-20 minutes for that type of thing, not fully anesthetized without any type of monitoring within a week of having surgery (which is beyond risky). We did seven bandage changes on Loki after his ulnar ostectomy, a massive procedure after which he had horrible pressure sores, and he was lightly sedated for each one.

Blood work, heart monitoring and IV fluids have been a standard part of the procedure during the nine times I've had various dogs operated on. We did an EKG on Titan before putting him under for his eye surgery. 

IMO, that's all basic care that ensures the best outcome for a dog (minus the EKG, which is a Dane thing). If a vet didn't do that, I would be very unhappy.

ETA: Maybe the surgery release thing is size related? Carrying any dog I've ever owned to a car hasn't really been an option, whereas carrying a smaller dog would be easier. Either way, I think it's a huge risk to remove a dog from veterinary monitoring less than 60 minutes after a surgical procedure. Maybe necessary in extenuating circumstances, but still a huge risk.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Eh, wound cleaning typically would be sedation but your experience in your area really isn't universal. Frankly, most people in my area couldn't and wouldn't pay for blood work before routine surgery. *I* wouldn't do it, though I've also never been offered it unless the dog was a senior and hadn't had a senior panel done recently or had some other issue. 

I've never heard of ANYONE who even opts for the blood screen do it for a dog who isn't a senior or having some other issue and cardiac exam? LOL, NEVER has it even been an option unless there's a suspected heart issue, and even then it's 'go to tech/the vet school if you need more than a listen and maybe quick look'. I'm fine with that. 

For me, none of those are standard care. Those are things you do for a senior dog, a dog who has had health issues or may have health issues, or is on medication that requires monitoring. Not for a spay, neuter, dental cleaning or the like - they're just not. In fact your post here is the first time I've heard most of these things mentioned, even on the forum. Pre-surgical bloodwork for a young healthy dog and a cardiac exam? Nope, not even on here - not as standard. 

Molly being released early was weird, but frankly it was a s/n clinic we use regularly and have previously taken rescue animals to. She was losing her CRAP the entire time she was there and needed moved, but I've had my regular - trusted, good, vet, has sent me home with dogs on IVs, dogs requiring injectable meds, the works, and it's not uncommon for them to do with regular patients. They're not staffed overnight, for one, and for another in case of communicable things they prefer it. 

So for me *that* is standard, good, care. I'd be annoyed as crap if my vet told me to do a cardiac exam and bloodwork before doing routine, relatively minor surgery on a young dog with no previous health issues or reason to suspect them. 

Different strokes....


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Willowy said:


> Same here. It's not standard at all.
> 
> Anesthesia makes you feel weird. If he isn't feeling better by tomorrow give the vet a call.


Yeah, agreed. Definitely go back if he's not feeling better tomorrow, see what's up and get it looked at. What they used on him matters, too. Some dogs get really weirded out for a while, or react differently to different meds.


----------



## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Not sure about other clubs, but I think the GDCA is one of the few who releases strict surgical guidelines:



> 3. Prior to any surgery, request that the veterinarian do a complete physical examination, including a good heart auscultation, and EKG.
> 
> 4. Ensure that you elect to have the pre-surgical blood work done (CBC and serum chemistry panel) and ask them to also include a CLOTTING PROFILE.
> 
> ...


I'd rather pay more and cover my bases than lose a dog on the table and wonder if monitoring would have saved their life. I've done IVs, heart monitoring and pre-surgical bloodwork on every dog I've ever had, though. Titan was the first I did an EKG on.

Different strokes, indeed


----------



## Terriermon (Mar 19, 2016)

My first dog who was a pitbull mix also did this after anesthesia. He really hated being 'messed up' but it would stop after he had a good night's sleep. You still should go back to the vet if he still looks off after he has had a good long sleep, I think.


----------



## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I can't imagine *not* doing bloodwork before being put under anesthesia except possibly for an emergency. Wouldn't you want to know if there was a problem before putting dogs under? It just seems like a no-brainer to me.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> I can't imagine *not* doing bloodwork before being put under anesthesia except possibly for an emergency. Wouldn't you want to know if there was a problem before putting dogs under? It just seems like a no-brainer to me.


Eh, I've never had it recommended with any kind of seriousness -offered on a list of prices like a menu not recommended or suggested - and after literal hundreds, possibly even a thousand, relatively minor surgeries (spays, neuters, benign tumor removals, biopsies, things stitched, dentals) in my own and (mostly) foster dogs (not always in my house)and never, ever, having had a single problem with a young healthy dog and a routine or minor surgery? I don't see the point. Like I said, different strokes. For me it's money down a drain. 

I DO do blood work if the dog is on medication, they get regular check-ups, they often have blood work as a result of other issues/if there is another issue, and about once a year once they're seniors. That's a full panel. I just don't see any benefit when you're dealing with a short, minor, surgery in a young, healthy dog who isn't on meds and has no symptoms of a problem.

That said, I freely recognize that all those years working with a rescue group where money was a big deal has likely skewed my view. My own pets, I could add that 170.00 to the surgery, but adding that to the cost of altering a dog just pulled from a shelter was never going to happen. So I've seen a loooot of dogs go through those things without the blood work and seen them be fine so that's undoubtedly made me way more relaxed about it.


----------



## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Our Vet only mentions the blood work and IV on older dogs, never had it used on a young healthy dog that I have had spayed and had their teeth done at the same time. They let you pick them up and bring them home a few hours after they are finished depending on how wide awake they are. There is nobody there overnight so would rather have them come home.


----------



## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

My two pit bulls routinely cried for a day after teeth cleanings. I found that if I wrap them in a blanket and hold them, it sometimes helps. Alarming, but "normal" behavior at my house.

I had another dog who needed major abdominal surgery on Christmas Eve. Without it, she would have died. I actually took her home minutes after they stitched her up with a drain tube in place. She was out cold and we carried her to my car and tossed her in the back seat. I had to get help unloading her when we got home. She didn't wake up for an hour.

I think that vet procedures vary wildly from region to region.


----------



## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

CptJack said:


> That said, I freely recognize that all those years working with a rescue group where money was a big deal has likely skewed my view. My own pets, I could add that 170.00 to the surgery, but adding that to the cost of altering a dog just pulled from a shelter was never going to happen. So I've seen a loooot of dogs go through those things without the blood work and seen them be fine so that's undoubtedly made me way more relaxed about it.


$170 for bloodwork? Yikes. Eva and Chester both have had a full blood panel done in the past 2 months, at 2 different vets, and one cost $60 and one cost $62. 

Eva's was optional for a teeth cleaning but since she hadn't had one before and because I had a dental month special that was $50 off on the cleaning part, it was a no-brainer for peace of mind. Vet requires it for dogs over age 6.
Chester's was not optional, he's a senior and his knee surgery was a much longer anesthetic time frame and he got pain killers, injections of anti-inflammatory and antibiotics all of which can tax the organs. 
I've never heard of a dog having a routine surgery like spay, neuter, small growth removal etc having an EKG as the normal standard. I think 2 of the foster dogs had fluids for spay/neuter (but it was a cryptorchid neuter and he had a ton of stitches), none of the dogs having a "surface" surgery like cherry eye fix or growth removal had it. 



trainingjunkie said:


> My two pit bulls routinely cried for a day after teeth cleanings. I found that if I wrap them in a blanket and hold them, it sometimes helps. Alarming, but "normal" behavior at my house.


Eva whimpered and cried after her teeth cleaning, really alarming me until my mother pointed something out -- Eva was only whimpering when someone was there to cuddle her for it. If you left the room and kind of listened in on her, she stopped whimpering and showed no distress. 
Stinker  They can be such big babies.


----------



## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yep. There is a 65.00 partial thing they do that is basically *just* kidney function, but full blood panel is 170.00, or at least that was what the two were when we had Molly's done last month after the raisin incident. 

They DO push annual blood work/full panel for senior dogs (over 8 here), but that's unconnected to surgery.


----------



## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Shell said:


> *I've never heard of a dog having a routine surgery like spay, neuter, small growth removal etc having an EKG as the normal standard. * I think 2 of the foster dogs had fluids for spay/neuter (but it was a cryptorchid neuter and he had a ton of stitches), none of the dogs having a "surface" surgery like cherry eye fix or growth removal had it.


Bolded - As I mentioned, that's a pretty Dane-specific thing. They do not do well under anesthesia and cardiac issues at a young(er) age are not at all uncommon in the breed, so an EKG is viewed as a safety measure, just like IV fluids or cardiac monitoring during surgery. I haven't done EKGs on any of my other dogs.

When I tell people not to get a Dane unless they're prepared to spend thousands upon thousands on vet bills, I'm not joking


----------



## lzrddr (Feb 3, 2015)

I think if you 'shop around' you will find 'standard of care' varies enormously from clinic to clinic and from town to town (as much as costs do, too). A lot of 'routine' preanesthetic screening is extremely dependent upon the local economy and clientele. We frankly would love it if all our clients would agree to full work ups prior to each anesthetic procedure, but then we may hardly get anything done as many would find it too much of a financial burden. But we do have some 'musts' or we just won't proceed (most of the costs of these just get worked into the cost of the procedure so the client can't opt out of them... such as IV fluids, pre-procedural exams, blood work on all critical, old or very sick pets and pain meds for anything that might possible result in post surgical discomfort (which includes just about everything)). I have worked at several clinics over the years- some which have required ECGs prior to each procedure (this one was in Beverly Hills, though)... but very few other clinics do this unless there is a strong suspicion of cardiac problems. All clinics in which I have worked recommended lab work on ALL patients, but allow those clients with apparently healthy young pets opt out if they want to (they have to sign something though that says they declined the work up). Most require IV fluids, but some again have allowed clients to opt out of this step. 

As for 'sedation' and anesthesia, these are not quite the same, as already mentioned above... however, many minor surgical procedures can be done under sedation and local anesthesia very easily with minimal risk (masses removed, laceration repairs, bandaging procedures, wound cleaning etc.). Not all sedation is reversible, however... in fact most are not. But those that employ Dexdomitor or Rompum (not used too much anymore) are and allow pets to go home in an hour or less after the procedure feeling about the same as when they came in. Full anesthesia usually requires a longer observation time to be sure the pet is stable and able to safely go home, though there is no exact time for such a situation. Some animals recover far faster than others, and the shorter time a pet is anesthetized for, and depending up what drugs were used, some pets could safely be released not that long after a procedure, while others may need to stay a full day. 

Some pets react differently than do others, and many will have some narcotic or post anesthetic 'mania' or delirium, making them anxious and often vocal for many hours. These patients often need additional sedation or anti-anxiety meds to smooth out their recoveries so they are not so anxious or confused/delirious. This mania is not unusual with people either, from what I understand, and the same rules/procedures apply. Some anesthetics allow many pets to recover feeling absolutely fine (like when I had propofol for a procedure- I felt I could run many miles as soon as I woke up I felt so good)... while others may make some feel very weird or nauseous (as I felt when I had some narcotic or gas anesthesia for various procedures). We try hard to make the whole procedure/day as pleasant (or as little unpleasant) as possible for both owner and patient, but sometimes we fall short, or some patients do not recover as smoothly as expected or hoped. Howling at home would certainly classify as a 'less than ideal' anesthetic recovery and we would be trying to rectify that as best as possible. I am sorry you had to experience that, but I hope your pet is OK now.


----------

