# From BARF to Pray model



## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

I am thinking of changing my dog from the ground diet to a pray model, but I am worried about getting it right. I need a little more education on the subject.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

Sarayu14 said:


> I am thinking of changing my dog from the ground diet to a pray model, but I am worried about getting it right. I need a little more education on the subject.


I would google prey model dog food diets and go from there, also join a forum or yahoo list.


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

Figure 2% of your dog's weight for a daily ration. A 50 pound dog starts with 16 ounces or a pound of chicken. Start with raw defatted and skinned chicken. Since your dog is accustomed to eating raw there probably won't be much problem switching and you will see firm to hard poops right away. If poop is too hard leave on a bit more of fat/skin every couple days. After poop is reliable for about a week on chicken with all the fat and skin left on start switching a bit of chicken for a bit of the next protein. Once your dog can eat about half bony chicken and half new meat you can switch to chicken and another protein. I used the really bony backs and wings along with the new meat to keep the bone content quite high.

Once your dog can eat chicken and the usual other proteins - turkey, beef, pork, lamb, maybe fish - then you can start working organ into the food. As the ultimate goal is only 5% of the diet to be liver and 5% to be other organ such as kidney, pancreas, spleen, brain do remember to start very small. A 50 pound dog's ultimate daily amount of liver would be only .8 ounces a day plus .8 ounces of other organ so start with the merest sliver of the first organ. 

After all the meats and all the organs are fine and dandy then you can start working on the fun stuff. Less bone so the diet is about 10% bone rather than the 30% bone contained in chicken carcasses. Feeding only liver one day and only kidney the next. Then feeding bigger meals some days and smaller the next. 

Max is currently eating a really big bit once a month or so and the rest of the time he gets bigger bony/organy meals alternating with meat only meals which is probably as far as I can take this as he is 11 years old now. This way I can feed him more interesting bony bits and he can have more of his much loved organs a day and keep his bone intake down closer to where it should be. If I fed him a chicken wing along with meat and organ daily he would be getting about 20% bone every day but I can now give that chicken wing+organ+meat to make a bigger meal and just plain meat the next day so he is getting closer to 10% bone overall. Of course if you are more comfortable feeding bone/meat/organ daily that is fine too. Some raw feeders like to feed bony meat a couple days a week with an organ meal a week and boneless meat the other days so they are just handing some sort of hunk to the dog once a day, fine too.

The diet is mostly meat, as much of that meat should be beef/pork/lamb/venison/? as possible - at least 50%. Keep the bone down to a dull roar and remember to feed that organ. If you are feeding a lot of grain fed meat then either supplement with fish oil or feed about 15% fatty fish like salmon, mackerel or sardines.

Do NOT worry about giving the wonderful variety some of us marvel at. It is just fine to feed chicken, beef, pork and canned fish as long as you get the organs in and don't over do the bone. I am super happy I can feed Max some ostrich and rabbit along with chicken, pork and beef but it isn't all that important.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

what kathyy said. 

the poo will tell you how your dog is doing...too loose? add a little not a lot of bone...too hard and crumbly? take some bone away...

remember to breathe..it's only the transition that counts and since he's been on raw...it's not a great leap from what you're doing to what you will be doing....you're just not going to feed the veggies or grains or whatever barf model you're using..

you are going to get him used to a progression of foods, watch for the detox which takes a few months....and then you're golden.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

MagicRe said:


> and then you're golden.


I was just about to ask, what about my Golden (I have a Golden Retriever you see lol). I don't think that my mom will let me change her food but I will change my Lab mix's food and see what she thinks. Thank you for all of the info it is a bit daunting but I should be fine. Do I need any supplements at all?


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

if you're feeding prey model raw, then no, you should not need supplements as long as you feed a variety of meats fowl and fish..

if you find that you can't get your dog to eat fish....then salmon oil supplements (either in a spray bottle or gelcaps - no soy) or anchovy/sardine spray will suffice.

other people use other supplementations because they are feeding grocery store meats, but many dogs do fine on these meats fowls and fish without supplementation....

if you should decide that you should use them...there are many good ones out there....just create a thread and you'll be bombarded with others use....

i only use sardine/anchovy spray from iceland pure, but that's just a choice i made. others use alaska salmon oil gelcaps from costco, real good stuff.

believe it or not, this should not be daunting....

you start with chicken bone in. for your lab, chicken quarters and backs should do it. 
how much does your lab weigh?

the lab is going to be on chicken for about two weeks...during that two weeks, you think about turkey.....two weeks later, you think about pork...two weeks later, you think about sardines and anchovies and mackerel....if not fresh, then canned no soy.....two weeks later, you think about red meat. two weeks after that, you begin to give a sliver of liver....until you build up to 5% of his diet...it's balance over time, remember that....and then after that, you give slivers of kidney or pancreas or spleen, ya know, the other organs..but by that time, you'll be an expert...

you watch the poo. if it's solid, you're golden ...if it's real loose, feed a boney meal....if it's a little crumbly, then you're feeding too much bone...

and the best advice i ever got...was go slowly. real slowly. turtle slowly...

and we're here to help....


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

MagicRe says this should not be daunting. Wish I believed that, LOL. I doubt I will ever do raw outside of frozen because I'm scared to death


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

MagicRe said:


> how much does your lab weigh?


She is I think close to 60lb, I would like her closer to 50Lb if possible, (we are in training and using treats)


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> MagicRe says this should not be daunting. Wish I believed that, LOL. I doubt I will ever do raw outside of frozen because I'm scared to death


believe me, before i actually did it, i was petrified.....it was like closing my eyes and jumping off a cliff, only with my dogs...the first time i heard them crunch a bone, i knew they were going to die...i just knew i was killing them LOL

my first three months were a horror story....to the point where i went back to cooking for them....long story....but all user error, not anything bad for the dog...well, i was bad for the dog, raw was fine LOL

and then i wrote to a friend of mine, who mentored me every inch of the way....and my dogs are doing great over a year later...

it seems daunting, i agree...but in reality, it's actually very easy 



Sarayu14 said:


> She is I think close to 60lb, I would like her closer to 50Lb if possible, (we are in training and using treats)


ok...so you want her to lose weight, but remember, in the beginning, you also want to transition, so no worries about weight for the moment...

but, since you want her to weight 50 lbs.....let's do this:

50lbs x 16 oz = 800 oz x .02 = 16 oz per day. that works out very well...because when you start raw, you want to start on a little less just to give them a chance to get used to it.

so tomorrow, feed her breakfast and then don't feed her until sunday. yes. she will hate you...but only for a little while.

then, tomorrow, if you have chicken backs ( they can be big and weigh about 8 oz.....) take the skin off or if you have leg quarters, take the skin and excess fat off.....and feed one of those...

she may not know what to do with it. she might lick and walk away in a huff..how dare you feed me that...you want me to eat THAT?

you can ribbon a leg quarter, to give her something to pull on....because, remember...she has no clue how to eat raw and needs to learn.

for the first few times, you can hold it for her and let her tug...

we feed on our kitchen floor on a towel. easy to clean...

the first week is when she learns how to eat....so feeding her a leg quarter twice a day or a back and a leg quarter twice a day to equal 16 oz....isn't nearly as important as teaching your girl how to eat. 

if you're nervous, make a cocktail...because she will feel your tension right down to the chicken....

and if you need help, pm me or post here..and i will do what my mentor did for me.....and walk you through the first six weeks, by which you and she will be expert.


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## abi88 (Jul 2, 2008)

Re is exacty right(she has helped me get my boys on RAW!). And believe me you wont regret it!! My boys are all doing AMAZINGLY on it and I'll never look back!! I, I guess unlike most, have always swam up stream when it comes to my family and my pets food...so I didnt see it as that daunting. I transferred the boys(2 at the time and a 3rd one a week latter) they are now happily on their 3rd and 4th weeks NEVER looked, felt, smelled or pooped better!!! :wink: 

Good luck!!! And CONGRATS to you and your dogs!!!!


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

We are already feeding 8oz twice a day so that wont be too hard we have also done chicken backs before. I really appreciate all of the info and help thank you very much. I am starting to think that had we started my 15 year old (RIP Bear) on this kind of diet instead of Science Diet that he may still be alive today. Thank you very very much.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Sarayu14 said:


> We are already feeding 8oz twice a day so that wont be too hard we have also done chicken backs before. I really appreciate all of the info and help thank you very much. I am starting to think that had we started my 15 year old (RIP Bear) on this kind of diet instead of Science Diet that he may still be alive today. Thank you very very much.


i know, believe me, i so wish i had done this for my shih tzu bandit....and all my dogs...but health is number one...it's not just about white teeth and a great looking coat...it's all about the health...and my twelve year old acts half her age....g'd willing, she will live well longer...but at least she will live well 



abi88 said:


> Re is exacty right(she has helped me get my boys on RAW!). And believe me you wont regret it!! My boys are all doing AMAZINGLY on it and I'll never look back!! I, I guess unlike most, have always swam up stream when it comes to my family and my pets food...so I didnt see it as that daunting. I transferred the boys(2 at the time and a 3rd one a week latter) they are now happily on their 3rd and 4th weeks NEVER looked, felt, smelled or pooped better!!! :wink:
> 
> Good luck!!! And CONGRATS to you and your dogs!!!!


abi...i didn't know you were over here.....i'm glad to hear they are doing well.....wow....those chicken necks you scored for the washington co op -- awesome...


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

MagicRe: do you have some good and/or favorite links to share, for those of us pondering the whole raw thing?


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## abi88 (Jul 2, 2008)

MagicRe said:


> Abi...i didn't know you were over here.....i'm glad to hear they are doing well.....wow....those chicken necks you scored for the washington co op -- awesome...


lol yep I'm here, have been-without posting-for years!LOL. And thank you!. I'm loving how they are doing!! And are your 2 in love with the necks as much as my 3 are?!? They can't get enough of them!!


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

abi88 said:


> lol yep I'm here, have been-without posting-for years!LOL. And thank you!. I'm loving how they are doing!! And are your 2 in love with the necks as much as my 3 are?!? They can't get enough of them!!


there aren't any real uncomplicated sites, but two i'll recommend right off:

http://preymodelraw.com/

and the easiest one and the one that i followed mostly...

http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

there are many yahoo lists out there, but i find some very strict and too too rigid...

there are some things, as a raw feeder i try not to do..like feed ground beef...greater area for germs and it doesn't give a dog a good chew.....things like that, but you learn them on the way. 

there are thread that are stickied in this forum that offer some great tips.....



abi88 said:


> lol yep I'm here, have been-without posting-for years!LOL. And thank you!. I'm loving how they are doing!! And are your 2 in love with the necks as much as my 3 are?!? They can't get enough of them!!


i have a gulper and a corgi mix....the necks are too small for the corgi mix and the gulper tried to down them without crunching, so we kind of stay away from them...but man, they are a mover on the list......

for anyone in the washington portland area, this co op is da bomb...

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WAzzuOR_BARF/


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## abi88 (Jul 2, 2008)

MagicRe said:


> i have a gulper and a corgi mix....the necks are too small for the corgi mix and the gulper tried to down them without crunching, so we kind of stay away from them...but man, they are a mover on the list......
> 
> for anyone in the washington portland area, this co op is da bomb...
> 
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WAzzuOR_BARF/


ah I got ya, I've been really lucky that even with the BCs, and Rhett only being 4 months old none of my boys are gulpers! Brody is the closest and that only results in him bringing it back up and not doing it for another few days!LOL
But they love it, and as you know, thanks to the juices from them I've even got Leo eating veal!HAHAHA 

But yes VERY much so agree with anyone in the PNW should join the co-op!!

And yes I love both those other links....the first one is great!


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

I have some people trying to talk me out of doing the change, what should I say when they say that I am going to harm the dog?


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Sarayu14 said:


> I have some people trying to talk me out of doing the change, what should I say when they say that I am going to harm the dog?


personally, these are your dogs and you have dominion.....i don't know the people who are trying to talk you out of it....i can offer you a white paper by orijen one of the best kibble makers around who not only support raw feeding they tell you why and how...

these are your dogs....what do you want to do? there is no pressure for you to feed barf or prey model...

there are, and this is my opinion only, very good reasons not to feed veggies and fruits and dairy to a dog....they can't handle it....nor have they...nor should they..it's bad for the bacterial and pH balance in their digestive tracts....sugar is bad bad bad for their teeth....and a whole laundry list of reasons that dogs on prey model do fantastic...no vet bills...no dentals...and shining health..

isn't that what this is all about?

and, for the record....why not just try it and if you don't like it, go back to barf....it's not carved in stone that once you start prey model you can never return from it.

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf

one of the best papers i ever read and it's by a kibble manufacturer.....


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## Kathyy (Jun 15, 2008)

The white paper is awesome, put out by a kibble company yet!

Here is another one. http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

And here is a long one specifically targeting the bacteria issue. http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/did-purina-executive-influence-delta-society%E2%80%99s-ban-of-raw-feeding.html


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Kathyy said:


> The white paper is awesome, put out by a kibble company yet!
> 
> Here is another one. http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
> 
> And here is a long one specifically targeting the bacteria issue. http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/did-purina-executive-influence-delta-society%E2%80%99s-ban-of-raw-feeding.html


i don't remember where i found it...i think on this forum...was where i saw it first....i read every page..and thought...well, wait a minute. this is a white paper. it's scientific. it not only backs raw but says it's the way to go.....and i said praise the Lord


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

MagicRe said:


> personally, these are your dogs and you have dominion.....i don't know the people who are trying to talk you out of it....i can offer you a white paper by orijen one of the best kibble makers around who not only support raw feeding they tell you why and how...
> 
> these are your dogs....what do you want to do? there is no pressure for you to feed barf or prey model...
> 
> ...


And for the record, if I have to feed kibble, I only ever feed Orijen or the grain free Acana.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

of all the dog kibbles, i would consider feeding that and ziwipeak....if i could get it....

that paper, though, was very insightful...


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Would you recommend beef ribs or pork riblets? This is an early order form that I have made up includes price with GST. What are some of your thoughts?

*Chicken Carcasses (frames) X1* $25.50 (30lb-40lb)?

*Chicken hearts &Livers (Mixed) X5 bags* $8.40 (10lb)?

*Chicken Gizzards X2 bags* $5.00 (4lb)?

*Chicken, turkey, duck, geese (limited) feet (5 bags mix)* $8.00 (10lb)?

*Turkey Backs 1 box (20-25lb) $1.25/lb* $25.00 (20lb)?

*Duck Carcasses 1 Box (20lb box) $1.45/lb* $29.00 (20lb)?

*Beef Chunks (Bone in Ribs mostly)* $11.50 (5lb)

*Beef Chunks (boneless)* $14.25 (5lb)

*Pork Chunks (boneless)* $8.00 (5lb)

*Whole Piglets ($1.25/lb) 2-6lb ea (3 or more $1/lb)* $6.00 (3 piglets 6lb)?

*Pork Riblets* $4.50 (5lb)

*Meaty Pork bones (shanks/hocks with feet)* $4.50 (5lb)


*Subtotal* $149.65

*GST* $7.12

*Total* $156.77

*Meat weight* approx. 125lb

*? some weights are approx.*


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

to be honest with you, i would recommend not making this huge order until you have transitioned your dog...to all the proteins....

for the next week or two, you're just going to be feeding chicken.....and that's just to get the flora and fauna in his gut to adapt...to give his teeth and gums a chance to heal from gingivitis and placque removal (at least the beginnings of it)....

and then you're going to intro turkey....

it's a slow process, one in which you're never sure what they will eat easily and what you'll have to coach them to eat, like organs and you're at least three months away from feeding organs...

in answer to your question, though, i would not buy pork riblets, as the bones are too small....but the pork ribs would work...whole piglets? baby bigs? skin on and everything? that's awesome for about six to eight months from now...

the transition ususally goes like this..

first chicken - boney chicken - bonier than usual to stabilise the stool and get things going.

then chicken and turkey necks or turkey breasts and turkey, but always use the base of chicken for one of the meals...

then pork and chicken

then fish and chicken (sardines, herring, mackerel, anchovies) i started my dogs with tiny bits as treats and built them up to whole meals....

then beef....this one is the rich one...beef is what they should eat, along with other red meats....but beef is rich...so you intro it the same way you do all the other proteins..

when they are used to eating these proteins, then you can get a little creative....about six months down the road....so you don't have to spend this much on this much variety.....when you're transitioning and you don't want to create cannon butt, which is almost always user error and easily corrected....it's one protein at a time and allow enough time for your dog to get used to that particular protein and eating raw in general.

that's a nice list for my dogs though.... and the price sounds pretty good...six to eight months from now, you'll be ordering in bulk and buying a new freezer....and you'll get one drawer for your stuff and your dog gets all the rest LOL



from that list, i would buy for a new dog:

chicken carcasses - frames

chicken, turkey, duck, geese feet

turkey backs

duck carcasses

that's it.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

So no need for organs yet? (I don't want to sound like a pest) thank you again for all of your help and guidance, it has meant a lot.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Sarayu14 said:


> So no need for organs yet? (I don't want to sound like a pest) thank you again for all of your help and guidance, it has meant a lot.



believe me, you're not a pest....the person who walked me through the steps to keep it from getting complicated...humans do that, ya know .....i must have emailed him or posted on the board several times a day....when you're in the kitchen, waiting to hear that first crunch, not sure of what you're doing and is it okay to do it...am i killing my dog.....if raw is right, then why are so few doing it..and all the other doubts...it helps to know that you're not alone..that you can ask as many questions as you feel you want to ask or need to ask....i know i'll answer you best i can....

but to answer your immediate question.....it's balance over time...so no organs yet. they are way too rich....for a newly transitioned dog....if you've ever heard the term cannon butt, that's what happens when dogs are overfed, fed too rich, not fed enough bone....for too long....and you want to avoid that....you'll be pleasantly surprised at the smaller poos less often as your dog gets used to raw.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

I gave her 8oz of stew/stir fry beef for dinner with 1 egg and shell(she will not eat the shell) and she seemed to be fine (the Golden got the same dinner). Was it okay to do this, or am I taking a risk? I want to feed the same thing tomorrow night because we can't eat it and I don't want to toss it(it was too expensive).


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Sarayu14 said:


> I gave her 8oz of stew/stir fry beef for dinner with 1 egg and shell(she will not eat the shell) and she seemed to be fine (the Golden got the same dinner). Was it okay to do this, or am I taking a risk? I want to feed the same thing tomorrow night because we can't eat it and I don't want to toss it(it was too expensive).


when first starting out, you may want to add bone to the next meal..the worst that can happen is you'll give her cannon butt because she's so new to eating raw.....


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Are chicken thighs okay until I get some backs?


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Sarayu14 said:


> Are chicken thighs okay until I get some backs?


are you still feeding barf with the beef stew/ stir fry? just askin'.....

thighs are fine....

as i said, just watch the poo. if she gets cannon butt or the blatts, give more bone...if she is fine, do what you're doing....and if the poo is crumbly, give her less bone...

if you don't think you can get away from barf feeding, you can maybe lessen the veggies and increase the proteins.....

just my opinion, but veggies count in caloric real estate, so gotta figure that in if you're going to include it.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Sunday we get the food that we ordered and it includes chicken backs. The stew beef is all gone, she seemed to really like it, and it slowed her eating down a bit which is good.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Sarayu14 said:


> Sunday we get the food that we ordered and it includes chicken backs. The stew beef is all gone, she seemed to really like it, and it slowed her eating down a bit which is good.


sounds like you're on your way.....if she's eating beef without a problem, then you've got a transitioned dog. how long was she on barf?


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

Since this time last year. The Humane Society had her on Iams, but we changed her to barf in the morning and Orejin at night, then two months later we had her eating full barf. We had tried chicken backs before and also freezer burned beef from my sister, both dogs really liked the beef.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

aha! lol....so really, she's already on raw....now all you have to do is feed whatever proteins she has been eating....add bone and a little organ and you're good to go...she's already transitioned..

just don't feed the veggies and fruits and grains

she can't digest them properly and it causes problems down the line, both in the digestive tract and their teeth.


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## abi88 (Jul 2, 2008)

MagicRe said:


> aha! lol....so really, she's already on raw....now all you have to do is feed whatever proteins she has been eating....add bone and a little organ and you're good to go...she's already transitioned..
> 
> *just don't feed the veggies and fruits and grains
> 
> she can't digest them properly and it causes problems down the line, both in the digestive tract and their teeth*.


Where is the like button when I need it?!?!LOL


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

abi88 said:


> Where is the like button when I need it?!?!LOL


i keep looking for it too, but this forum doesn't have the like button


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

We got the meat yesterday, the chicken frames are actual frames with no wings or legs. I had to cut them in half and feed them to both dogs this morning. They did have trouble with them to start but they got over it fast and loved them. I just got an offer from a friend for soup bones. What are your thoughts on those types of bone? She said that she used to give them to her Lab cross so I think that they will be a good size.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Sarayu14 said:


> We got the meat yesterday, the chicken frames are actual frames with no wings or legs. I had to cut them in half and feed them to both dogs this morning. They did have trouble with them to start but they got over it fast and loved them. I just got an offer from a friend for soup bones. What are your thoughts on those types of bone? She said that she used to give them to her Lab cross so I think that they will be a good size.


it is certainly your decision, and it is your risk to take.

personally i do not ever feed the bones from a weight bearing animal, such as cow...and marrow bones or soup bones make a wonderful broth but we call them tooth breakers.....to those who have never had a problem...well, i 'd say you were lucky...i would rather not take the chance...

people feed them all the time, especially to big dogs...and often enough to the smaller ones because the small dogs can't choke on them. but what the small dogs do is gnaw and grind and eventually they wear their teeth down on these bones....if they eat kibble, that's not a problem but if they are eating raw, it can be.

with larger dogs...those dogs have powerful jaws and sometimes, just like with kids, do not know their own strength...one wrong bite and you've got a 500. visit to the dentist with a fractured tooth. 

i love chicken frames....they usually have some meat on them and the bone is from the breast which is a great starter for dogs....

glad they liked them....next week, you can intro chicken without bone for one meal....so brekkie would be frame, dinner would be boneless chicken.....


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

shoot. i keep forgetting you're going from barf to no barf.....sorry about that....you can pretty much feed what you want. but you may want to up the bone content until your dog gets used to not having other things to stabilise the poo, besides bone providing all those minerals and vitamins.


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

I just did my first clean up after starting raw and half of it was small, dry, and nearly white. Both girls are loving it so far.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

i keep forgetting...and i won't again..promise, that your dog is already on raw.....

you can back off the bone a little, because the only changes you're making is to feed no veggies or fruits or grains...

so you can feed drumsticks or leg quarters depending on how much they are fed each meal.....

small is good, not loose is good, nearly white is too much bone  --- this one's on me. my bad.....easily corrected, tho...isn't that the beauty of raw?


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

When should I start with organs?


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

has your dog had organs?

since your dog is already on raw....i'd maybe wait about a month just for you to get used to this type of feeding....

feeding a diet without the veggies, fruits, and grains is a little different....

the veggies, fruits and grains are the stool stabiliser and now you're counting on bone to stabilise the stool....

....and i would start them small....and build up to about 5% of her diet and then introduce another organ as the other 5%...could be kidney or brain or spleen or pancreas...


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## Sarayu14 (Apr 26, 2010)

I fed fish for the first time. The Goldie loved it but Shay (the labX) had to be hand fed or she would not have eaten it.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

Sarayu14 said:


> I fed fish for the first time. The Goldie loved it but Shay (the labX) had to be hand fed or she would not have eaten it.


why is it always one loves it. the other doesn't. 

we discovered that one would eat the fish frozen, guts and all...and the other i ground, guts and all....takes a little experimenting, i think..

there are those who simply feed canned fish....because trying to get their dogs to eat fish has become so difficult....

right now, my dogs are eating primal sardines..which is just sardines ground up.....because i ran out of fish...

i'm very limited on what i feed for fish..i want the highest omega 3 fishes with the lowest amount of mercury..and so far, the only ones i've come up with are herring, mackerel, sardines and anchovies.....


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