# Early Training for Dog Sports?



## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

For all the different dog sports enthusiasts out there, I had a general question.

When you have a puppy does your choice of dog sport(s) influence early training or do you generally follow a pretty general training program until the dog is older and ready to specialize and learn about the specific sport(s)? Do you feel there are advantages or disadvantages to either approach? Are there any things you wish you'd taught your dog differently as a pup as you got more involved in your chosen sport(s)?

I'm not thinking of anything specific to my situation here, it's just something that's been bouncing around in my head lately. Thank you!


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Regardless of the sport, I teach engagement, engagement, engagement and impulse control and SOCIALIZATION, with a heavy emphasis on socialization to environment. You need all of those things regardless of the sport.


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## Poly (Sep 19, 2007)

trainingjunkie said:


> Regardless of the sport, I teach engagement, engagement, engagement and impulse control and SOCIALIZATION, with a heavy emphasis on socialization to environment. You need all of those things regardless of the sport.


+1 to that. You can't build a house without a strong foundation.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I know I'm not a heavy player or anything, but thirded. 

No matter the sport, you need your dog focused on you and comfortable in all kinds of settings and around all kinds of things. Other dogs are less important than the ability to work in ANY setting, with anything going on around them (including people and dog) and happy to do so. 

Just focus on getting him comfortable performing with all sorts of distractions and a solid rapport and, maybe, really solidify 'watch me' . Everything else is built on that. EVERYTHING.


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## Emily1188 (Jun 21, 2011)

trainingjunkie said:


> Regardless of the sport, I teach engagement, engagement, engagement and impulse control and SOCIALIZATION, with a heavy emphasis on socialization to environment. You need all of those things regardless of the sport.


Yes, this.

After that, it depends on your sport. I do lots of body awareness work, I walk while feeding puppy from my hip on either side to create reinforcement zones that will pay off later in heelwork and agility. 

With pups, I don't focus much on can they "sit, down, stay, etc etc by 6 months old." It's less about formal commands and more about getting the pup to see me and our relationship in a certain way, and to value and seek out certain behaviors and certain attitudes about training. Sorry, I know that's vague, but I hope it makes sense.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Most of the above. I do a lot of tunnel work, wobble board work, socialization to equipment, no bar jumps, going away and around a pole, etc. for agility foundations. Lots of uneven surfaces and weird textures, noises, banging... a little more than I would do for a house pet, but not a lot more. Lots of heelwork as well like mentioned by Emily. I definitely teach strong basics though as well as being handleable on a table. If I had cattle, pup would most certainly be out there every day moving them with me from the time they came home.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. They're really good.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

trainingjunkie said:


> Regardless of the sport, I teach engagement, engagement, engagement and impulse control and SOCIALIZATION, with a heavy emphasis on socialization to environment. You need all of those things regardless of the sport.


Add my voice to the "agreed 100%" chorus. 

The other thing that has worked out beautifully with Squash especially (the only of my 3 I've had since he was a wee puppy) has been a lot of shaping and trick training. It has taught him to "learn to learn," pick things up really fast, offer behaviors, and to really enjoy training.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

sassafras said:


> The other thing that has worked out beautifully with Squash especially (the only of my 3 I've had since he was a wee puppy) has been a lot of shaping and trick training. It has taught him to "learn to learn," pick things up really fast, offer behaviors, and to really enjoy training.


I just wanted to second this ^^. I was introduced to shaping in my first agility class with Zoey and the difference between how she learns and picks up on things now compared to before is really awesome. I feel like it has really helped build her confidence and to strengthen our relationship in training as well.


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## Kyllobernese (Feb 5, 2008)

Lucy is the first dog I have had that I have done clicker training with and I did not start that until the Agility Foundation class when she was ten months old. Now that I have found out how well it works, I started it with Kris right away. It really seems to help them learn quicker and want to learn new things and enjoy doing it.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I've never really raised a dog specifically with sports in mind but I found my two had a really great foundation going in.

I didn't do much at all formal training wise with Mia, but I dragged her around everywhere with me, all over campus and weird sounds/things were pretty commonplace for her. We did some shaping and trick training, which meant we got to agility with a leg up and her already anticipating 'i do things and get rewards'. 

I know a lot of people really focus on things like doing tunnels, wrapping and doing jumps with the bar down, etc. To me that is not really important at all and I see people (imo) over-training their young pups. I will probably spend my next pup (who I am hoping to be competitive in agility with) doing games and building the dog playing and engaging with me in a variety of situations. That is one thing I wished I'd done more was to really encourage play more often with Mia when she was a youngster. As a result she lost a lot of her drive to tug and still has trouble playing in certain over-exciting situations.

We will take some classes though, not sure which ones. Mostly for a socialization standpoint.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Tug seems to be widely recommended for almost any dog sport, to maintain and increase drive. We already play a lot of tug since it's the only game my pup really likes.

A lot of my puppy class trainer's methods seem to be about reducing drive. She tells people never to play tug with their dogs. Another thing I'm choosing to disregard from her class.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

packetsmom said:


> Tug seems to be widely recommended for almost any dog sport, to maintain and increase drive. We already play a lot of tug since it's the only game my pup really likes.
> 
> A lot of my puppy class trainer's methods seem to be about reducing drive. She tells people never to play tug with their dogs. Another thing I'm choosing to disregard from her class.


I definitely would disregard that. I talk all about engagement and tug/games like this in my puppy classes or sport classes, and I think people are finally getting it. When I placed my foster puppy I had done WEEKS worth of engagement training with him and showed his new mom what it was all about. Now he's in my puppy class and at 15ish weeks he's way ahead, attention and confidence wise than any of the other dogs, even those much older than him. I can really see the difference since I know how he was raised and it's crazy!


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## petpeeve (Jun 10, 2010)

packetsmom said:


> Are there any things you wish you'd taught your dog differently as a pup as you got more involved in your chosen sport(s)?


There is a popular phrase, "we make all of our mistakes on our first (competition) dog". I'm not so sure how true that is, in a literal sense. I think we continue to make mistakes, just at a lesser rate. But we learn with each new experience, each new dog, and we improve.

Hindsight is 20 / 20.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

petpeeve said:


> There is a popular phrase, "we make all of our mistakes on our first (competition) dog". I'm not so sure how true that is, in a literal sense. I think we continue to make mistakes, just at a lesser rate. But we learn with each new experience, each new dog, and we improve.
> 
> Hindsight is 20 / 20.


No Doubt. There are always more mistakes to be made, but MAN did I make a ton of whoppers with my first. Good news is, he couldn't care less. At least I always kept it fun!


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

trainingjunkie said:


> No Doubt. There are always more mistakes to be made, but MAN did I make a ton of whoppers with my first. Good news is, he couldn't care less. *At least I always kept it fun!*


It's tough because, like anything else, you don't know...what you don't know. I'm sure, no matter what sport(s) we do, I'll make plenty of mistakes as a handler and trainer and it's sad because I see a lot of potential in my dog and I know I will be the reason he doesn't reach as far as he could if I had my stuff together more, BUT...at the end of the day, we're doing all this because he's my pet and I want us to have something fun to do together. I think this might be even moreso the case because he is a mix. There's no chance that I'd breed him even if he was a champion at this or that, so maybe it really doesn't matter if he reaches his maximum potential in anything...as long as we have fun together and both enjoy whatever we do?


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

packetsmom said:


> It's tough because, like anything else, you don't know...what you don't know. I'm sure, no matter what sport(s) we do, I'll make plenty of mistakes as a handler and trainer and it's sad because I see a lot of potential in my dog and I know I will be the reason he doesn't reach as far as he could if I had my stuff together more, BUT...at the end of the day, we're doing all this because he's my pet and I want us to have something fun to do together. I think this might be even moreso the case because he is a mix. There's no chance that I'd breed him even if he was a champion at this or that, so maybe it really doesn't matter if he reaches his maximum potential in anything...as long as we have fun together and both enjoy whatever we do?


I once asked someone, who was wondering about placing a dog in a home that would love the stuffing out of her but not necessarily 'train her and help her reach her potential', what exactly the ultimate full potential of a dog WAS? Because I can tell you right now, that Kylie could probably excel in agility and freestyle, and rack in titles and wins if she had a better handler. She doesn't. She has me. 

Do I feel guilty about it? Nope. 

I feel a little wistful and regretful realizing that I will not get as far with Kylie as I maybe could if I were more experienced and had access to more, better, closer, training classes and facilities. We have an amazing bond, and I look at her and think how much we could accomplish and how awesome it would be. But that's _ME_. I ADORE that dog, and* I* want to do everything in the world with her and show the world how awesome she is! *I* want the validation of her. *I* want her incredibleness to be recognized by people!

_She's _a dog. She doesn't care. She's not ambition. Win, lose, draw, or make a fool of herself, she's happy. She just wants to play with me.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Having fun with your dog is why we all do these things. It should be the reason behind it all at least.

I think you will surprise yourself though and you will start to care more about doing things well... not for competition or 'being the best' but just because it's fun to start really putting together how your dog ticks. How to get them really into it all. Sports for me has really opened a whole new level of appreciation for my dogs and what they both have to offer. 

So... don't fret about 'am I doing this perfect'? But do learn about your dog and what works and what doesn't. Dogs are surprising creatures.

I started agility up from ground up 'just for fun' with my 8 year old papillon at the time. Fast forward one year and she's phenomenal. Just an incredibly talented little agility dog. Sometimes I stop and think that if only she'd been in great hands or if only I'd have gotten her as a pup and started her at one. I have no doubts she could've made it far. How far? Will never know but she has all the potential in the world. But she doesn't care at all. She's having a blast and I'm coming to appreciate her even more than ever through learning agility _with her_.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

This thread is really awesome, some great advice in here.

However, I don't think what happens in puppyhood determines everything. There's always time to teach a dog new skills, as long as the dog is normal and confident (e.g. not scared and undersocialised or aggressive etc). Getting the right foundation early on makes the whole process quicker, but there's no reason why you can't retrain an older dog. The dog being confident and willing to work for you for treats and/or toys are the most important thing, anything else is just skills training. And a dog is never too old to learn new skills, it may just take a little longer and you may have to re-train to fix some bad habits.

So even if you mess up your first sports dog's puppyhood, there's no reason why the dog can't be just as great as any other dog. I've heard numerous stories of dogs who had issues with running off the agility field, stopping to sniff, getting overexcited etc, receiving some better training later in life and making a complete turn-around. Also, shelter dogs usually aren't trained for sports early in life, but plenty of shelter dogs have made great sports dogs.

But that being said, there's nothing to say that there's anything wrong with a dog not meeting its full potential. Most dogs don't. As long as they're happy and their family is happy, it's all good.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Oh and we all learn and mess up all the time. No one's ever done learning about dog training. That's why dog training is so much fun. It's never the same and there's always room to do things differently.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Sam loves what little training we've done and always seems to want more. He loves playing tug. He loves hiking and sniffing everything he can along the trail. All those things could translate into dog sports, but, he'd still probably be just as happy if we just spent time together hiking, tugging, and doing some tricks in the backyard as he would if we did all kinds of sports. I think he'd be happy doing whatever, as long as it's with his people...and bonus points if there are tasty treats involved.

I think it could be very easy to get too caught up in sports or (depending on your dog) shows and whatnot and lose sight of the reasons you had for starting them, particularly when you really want to do the best job you can for your dog. Maybe it's good to stop now and then and think about what they enjoy the most, which is usually the simple things?


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

packetsmom said:


> I think it could be very easy to get too caught up in sports or (depending on your dog) shows and whatnot and lose sight of the reasons you had for starting them, particularly when you really want to do the best job you can for your dog. Maybe it's good to stop now and then and think about what they enjoy the most, which is usually the simple things?


I just had a conversation about this with my boyfriend yesterday. I don't really understand the people who put thousands of dollars and hours into sporting competition for no personal gain (other than for their ego?) and don't enjoy it/have dogs who don't enjoy it and lose sight of the reason for doing it. 

Personally, I train in dog sports because it keeps me fit and my dogs like it, it's cheap and convenient to me. I _compete_ because, as a trainer, it looks good and will help my career _and_ my dogs enjoy it. Competing is fun and I don't judge those that do it for no reason, just the ones who spend ungodly amount of money and don't seem to really enjoy their dogs/their dogs don't enjoy running all weekend, etc.


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## MonicaBH (Jul 5, 2008)

By definition, every person here is a trainer to some degree. I think we've all trained our dogs to do... something.

That being said, I'd have a hard time taking classes from someone who isn't extensively titled in what they're teaching me.


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## cookieface (Jul 6, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I once asked someone, who was wondering about placing a dog in a home that would love the stuffing out of her but not necessarily 'train her and help her reach her potential', what exactly the ultimate full potential of a dog WAS? Because I can tell you right now, that Kylie could probably excel in agility and freestyle, and rack in titles and wins if she had a better handler. She doesn't. She has me.
> 
> Do I feel guilty about it? Nope.
> 
> ...





Laurelin said:


> Having fun with your dog is why we all do these things. It should be the reason behind it all at least.
> 
> I think you will surprise yourself though and you will start to care more about doing things well... not for competition or 'being the best' but just because it's fun to start really putting together how your dog ticks. How to get them really into it all. Sports for me has really opened a whole new level of appreciation for my dogs and what they both have to offer.
> 
> ...





lil_fuzzy said:


> This thread is really awesome, some great advice in here.
> 
> However, I don't think what happens in puppyhood determines everything. There's always time to teach a dog new skills, as long as the dog is normal and confident (e.g. not scared and undersocialised or aggressive etc). Getting the right foundation early on makes the whole process quicker, but there's no reason why you can't retrain an older dog. The dog being confident and willing to work for you for treats and/or toys are the most important thing, anything else is just skills training. And a dog is never too old to learn new skills, it may just take a little longer and you may have to re-train to fix some bad habits.
> 
> ...


Thank you for these comments! I've been following this thread for the great advice, but started to feel overwhelmed and defeated because I wasn't able to start early training and began worrying that it was already too late for my 2-year-old to become good at anything. Then, I started to reflect on my short-comings as a trainer/handler. My dog, I think, would be great at anything she was asked to do; I'm a slow-moving klutz who gets dizzy turning around once. Maybe we're not doomed.  Thanks.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

cookieface said:


> Thank you for these comments! I've been following this thread for the great advice, but started to feel overwhelmed and defeated because I wasn't able to start early training and began worrying that it was already too late for my 2-year-old to become good at anything. Then, I started to reflect on my short-comings as a trainer/handler. My dog, I think, would be great at anything she was asked to do; I'm a slow-moving klutz who gets dizzy turning around once. Maybe we're not doomed.  Thanks.


Oh no, never too late! And sometimes an individual dog just clicks with an individual sport/activity regardless of when you start.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

I agree that the most important thing is to have a dog who loves to learn and is willing to try new things. Everything else is just skills. Sure, if you want a dog who will be competitive in agility by 18 months, there is some specific foundation work you should be doing, but if you just want to try agility "some day", there's no rush to do those things (replace "agility" with whatever sport you are interested in).

I try to take Watson to every training event and class I possibly can. By 10 months he has been introduced to lots of basic obedience, nosework, some obstacles (though not a lot), conformation, and trick training. He is a dog who will be able to do just about anything, though none of it will necessarily happen on a tight schedule because of my abilities and commitment as a trainer. Maybe a better trainer could get a rally title on him by 18 months, plus a solid start in agility competition (and finish his conformation championship), but I'm in no rush. We're having fun and he's getting a well rounded education and that's all I care about.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

cookieface said:


> Thank you for these comments! I've been following this thread for the great advice, but started to feel overwhelmed and defeated because I wasn't able to start early training and began worrying that it was already too late for my 2-year-old to become good at anything. Then, I started to reflect on my short-comings as a trainer/handler. My dog, I think, would be great at anything she was asked to do; I'm a slow-moving klutz who gets dizzy turning around once. Maybe we're not doomed.  Thanks.


Definitely not! Frag was well over a year old (about 1.5/2?) when we first started training in agility/rally/nosework/dock diving. He had no prior foundations in any of the venues and took to them all right away... it's just a slower process to build up to with him(minus dock diving). Recon was introduced to all four by 4 months old, so he is going to be a lot better than Frag sooner, but that doesn't mean Frag doesn't/can't enjoy it just as much or excel by any means! And with sports like lure coursing and dock diving, they come more naturally to dogs. My Pit was just introduced to Dock diving and is already better than Recon who has been training for many months. Frag took right to Lure Coursing at 3 years old and had no trouble! Recon's alerts are much stronger in nosework than Frag's, and I think that is because he learned so young, but who knows?


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

There is a wonderful book just for this. It's all about building a bond and the drive for work in puppies. It uses a lot of play and games to lay the groundwork for a future performance dog. It's a must have in my opinion. 

The title is Building Block for Performance and the authors are Bobby Anderson with Tracy Libby. 

I have used this book for both Ocean and Lars when they are puppies. It really helped me to get them to love working.










Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

MrsBoats, is that book appropriate for older puppies as well? I would assume it is, but I can't seem to find the answer specifically online.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Oh yeah...you can use it for older puppies. You can get that on Dogwise.com 

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTO211

Another awesome couple of DVDs for agility puppies are:

Foundation Fundamentals with Mary Ellen Barry (who is incredible) - http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2625&ParentCat=215

and Susan Salo's Puppy Jumping DVD http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?f...lay&product_id=2083&ParentCat=175&string=Salo

There is a lot of stuff out there for building working foundations for future performance puppies...you just have to know where to look. 

As for the original question posed...no, I start teaching performance building blocks when they are babies. I teach a down from a stand and never from a sit for doing a down on an agility pause table or a drop on recall someday. I teach "heel" as an attention heel right from the get go. Everything I teach them as puppies is taught with an obedience exercise or agility thing from the start. Loose leash walking is taught as something different as "let's go"...heeling is competitive obedience heeling in our world. "Out" will someday become releasing a dumbbell. I always have dog sport in mind when I teach everything to my pups.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Great! I found it on Amazon as well and added it to my list for the next time I place an order. I think he has good basics and loves to work, but there are so many things I have to learn about building drive and weaning off of treats in distracting environments. None of that stuff seems to be in the "standard" training books (the ones that teach potty training, sit, down, no jumping, etc)


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

MrsBoats said:


> and Susan Salo's Puppy Jumping DVD http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?f...lay&product_id=2083&ParentCat=175&string=Salo


I actually just rented the foundation jumping DVD from Susan Salo at Bowwowflix to fix Frag's jump technique per my trainer's request... Love it! Definitely not just for puppies... he's almost 4! lol


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

Oh no...you're not going to find much at all in standard training books for performance stuff. 

For later in the game if obedience is going to be your gig...another awesome book I have and highly recommend is "Ring Ready" by Marie Sawford. It's a work book full of ideas for problem solving of common errors in obedience (for both YOU and the dog), proofing, and working with distractions. It also has a lot of games and drills for when you're training alone and if you're training in a group. It's such a great book for people if you train a lot alone. 

It's also on Dogwise - http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTO232

It's a little expensive...but man is it worth it.  Like I said...there are a lot of wonderful resources out there for the dog sport enthusiast...you just have to know where to look.


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## MrsBoats (May 20, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I actually just rented the foundation jumping DVD from Susan Salo at Bowwowflix to fix Frag's jump technique per my trainer's request... Love it! Definitely not just for puppies... he's almost 4! lol


I have that one and the puppy one. I need to get the other two she has with working with handler motion and competitive jumping work. I did a ridiculous amount of jump work with Lars...but haven't with Ocean because he doesn't drop bars. But, his jumping style needs some work because sometimes...he pogo sticks into the air over jumps. LOL


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

So far my only "performance" books are "Clicker Training for Obedience" and "Control Unleashed". I love CU, and while I love the idea of "Clicker Training for Obedience", it is so text heavy that it feels like reading a textbook sometimes. Good to read through, but not easy to apply into actual training exercises. 

I don't think I've looked at a standard training book in a long time. I love books like "The Other End of the Leash" for general behavior, but they also don't get to performance specifics of course.

My Amazon cart currently has "When Pigs Fly" because I've heard great things (though I don't think Watson is particularly difficult to motivate, I'm sure there are lots great ideas in the book that I could use). Also a book on conformation showing that got good reviews, and a book on training flushing spaniels, just for my education (I don't have any intentions to hunt with him). I love expanding my library and I'll be adding some of your suggestions!


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Elrohwen, have you thought about DVDs? Bowwowflix is a great rental place like netflix, but it only has dog DVDs and a great library of them, at that! Lots of competitive subjects.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> Elrohwen, have you thought about DVDs? Bowwowflix is a great rental place like netflix, but it only has dog DVDs and a great library of them, at that! Lots of competitive subjects.


I've considered it, but haven't gone down that road yet. I do enjoy reading, and don't have as much time for watching tv/movies/video as I did before the dog, but someday I will get around to it


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## Cattledogfanatic (Sep 18, 2011)

I wanted an agility dog. A "real" agility dog, whatever that means. I've never done a dog sport in my life. I just completed my first puppy agility class with my 7 month old puppy. OMG! It was a humbling experience to realize the dog is going to be great. I'm the one who needs to get it together. It was an awesome experience and I'm hooked. I still would love a dog that could run faster (and really, I just don't see myself as a 1 dog person) but I'm learning a lot and learning a lot about my dog and have an immense appreciation of the intelligence of my dog that I've never had before. I'd tell people to get into it for that reason alone.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Cattledogfanatic said:


> I wanted an agility dog. A "real" agility dog, whatever that means. I've never done a dog sport in my life. I just completed my first puppy agility class with my 7 month old puppy. OMG! It was a humbling experience to realize the dog is going to be great. I'm the one who needs to get it together. It was an awesome experience and I'm hooked. I still would love a dog that could run faster (and really, I just don't see myself as a 1 dog person) but I'm learning a lot and learning a lot about my dog and have an immense appreciation of the intelligence of my dog that I've never had before. I'd tell people to get into it for that reason alone.


At 7 months old, you have a lot of maturity and drive that you can tap into still to speed things up once he's matured and all of the foundations are in place! It's a lot easier as a handler with a young puppy to have a slower dog that is methodical in learning to have the patience to learn correctly the first time instead of flying through everything and having no idea what they're actually doing. 

For instance, I am clicker training my 11month old Border Collie's weaves.. We take it super slow (and clicker training really drops his drive into "obedience style") and work on the process/motion and what it's all about so that around 12-14 months, we can have it on cue and swap clicker training for a toy and build the drive coming through them to change it from a slow walk to a fast weave through them, kwim? 

What breed is your puppy?


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## Cattledogfanatic (Sep 18, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> At 7 months old, you have a lot of maturity and drive that you can tap into still to speed things up once he's matured and all of the foundations are in place! It's a lot easier as a handler with a young puppy to have a slower dog that is methodical in learning to have the patience to learn correctly the first time instead of flying through everything and having no idea what they're actually doing.
> 
> For instance, I am clicker training my 11month old Border Collie's weaves.. We take it super slow (and clicker training really drops his drive into "obedience style") and work on the process/motion and what it's all about so that around 12-14 months, we can have it on cue and swap clicker training for a toy and build the drive coming through them to change it from a slow walk to a fast weave through them, kwim?
> 
> What breed is your puppy?




He's an American Cocker.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Cattledogfanatic said:


> He's an American Cocker.


I see so many Cockers doing agility, I think you'd be surprised what kind of drive you can get out of them. Also, it's better to learn with a slow dog that is forgiving of your mistakes than a 500 mile a minute dog right away.


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## Cattledogfanatic (Sep 18, 2011)

Yep! Your right. I think if I had a 500 mile an hour dog I'd feel terrible because I wouldn't feel like I was bringing out his potential because I kept screwing up.  The first time I realized how good my dog could be was we were practicing manuvering obstacles and Hunter kept laying down over by the cones. The trainer asked me if I rewarded my dog a lot for being in front of me and at first I said no, then I thought about it and realized i did. I also realized that while I wasn't exactly clear as to what I wanted him to do because I wasn't sure myself, but he picked up that if he went over to the cones he'd get rewarded. I think this was only after 1 or 2 attempts.


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## GottaLuvMutts (Jun 1, 2009)

lil_fuzzy said:


> This thread is really awesome, some great advice in here.
> 
> However, I don't think what happens in puppyhood determines everything. There's always time to teach a dog new skills, as long as the dog is normal and confident (e.g. not scared and undersocialised or aggressive etc). Getting the right foundation early on makes the whole process quicker, but there's no reason why you can't retrain an older dog. The dog being confident and willing to work for you for treats and/or toys are the most important thing, anything else is just skills training. And a dog is never too old to learn new skills, it may just take a little longer and you may have to re-train to fix some bad habits.
> 
> ...


Yes, this. 

Kit's puppyhood is a mystery to me. I got her at 7 months and she had very little prior training. We immediately enrolled in basic obedience, but after that, I took a break from classes so that I could just work with her on my own (she needed some remedial work and tons of impulse control). We enrolled in our first agility class when she was around 18 months. She's 4 now, and last fall we competed at a national agility championship. Not only is she my first agility dog (so I learned the sport alongside her), she's also my first dog ever. 

As lil fuzzy says, dog sports generally require confidence and motivation. Confidence may be enhanced by early socialization, but more and more, I'm convinced that it's largely genetically determined. If the dog has confidence and motivation, then the strong relationship that you observe between top handlers and their dogs is built naturally through the process of learning the sport.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Summer is the best dog ever to learn from. She is incredible. She's also 9 and just now entering in her first trial ever next month.

I started agility with her when she was 5, then moved away (trainer wasn't great anyways). another bad trainer, then we waited a couple years and started over. This dog has a lot of natural talent. She is fast but keeps her head, she is responsive, she's biddable, totally confident, social, easy going, will do anything for one tiny piece of cookie.... You could not create a better starter dog if you tried. You never have to ramp her up, she's already there. On the other hand she's not like some dogs that are so super excited they have no control. I could rave about Summer forever. If I could have any dog in the world, I'd want Summer at about 1 year old. 1 year old Summer in expert hands would have been incredible and I believe could have gone extremely far.

Mia is more difficult because she's more sensitive. Summer didn't come to me until she was 4 but we didn't really start training till she was 8. She simply naturally has a great temperament for the sport. Mia is good too but not as simple to work with. 

In a case like Mia, where you have a more complicated and sensitive type personality, i think early development is a BIG key. It wasn't like I was doing a lot of agility as a youngster. She was just going lots of places and doing lots of things with me and around people and dogs. Mia in less involved hands would have probably been a very fearful dog that didn't know how to work through her fear. Now she is more sensitive than some dogs but can work through that fear. One nice thing about Mia though is that she is much more naturally inclined to be very keyed into me whereas Summer is a bit more distractable. 

I do not believe that you could have messed Summer up if you tried. She is a very solid little dog. So it didn't matter that I didn't get her until she was 4 in the slightest. Mia though would be a totally different dog had she not had a lot of early work put into her, I am positive of it. So it depends on the dog, really. I think the best/easiest sports prospects are probably inclined to just turn out that way no matter what.


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