# How bad is Royal Canin?



## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I feed 4health food for the most part. Occasionally I will buy another brand to mix in, or to try with Greta who is an extremely picky eater.

I normally wouldn't care if she was picky, but she is terribly thin. I have tried everything I have heard of, to no avail. She is perfectly healthy. Her vet says she is just so active with a high metabolism, and her lines are all fairly thin. You can see her ribs, hipbones, and occasionally her spine. I have tried some raw, kibble with every imaginable topping, table scraps, canned food, the log rolls, etc. She likes a lot, but only eats a little of anything. I have used additives, weight gain supplements, oils, you name it.

After trying almost every brand of food, her two favorites are bil jack and royal canine. Sigh, lol. So how bad are these?


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Of course she likes them, think McDonalds with those foods. Your high quality will be more like gourmet. 

More importantly, have you tried freeze dried or raw? I haven't met a dog yet that doesn't like The Honest Kitchen or Grandma Lucy's. 

One more question: what breed and age is your dog?


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

I don't know anything about Bil Jack or Royal Canin. Try looking them up on the dog food analysis site.

That being said, my dog is doing really well on Fromm(the grain free varieties). She has always been very picky, eats like a bird, and you can always see her ribs, hip bones, and spine. She's now a whopping 46.6lbs! This food will be a keeper for her. It might be worth looking into for you too.


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

IMHO, if that is what she likes and that is what she actually will eat, I'd feed it. Maybe rotate in some healthier options, but if she likes it and is doing well on it, then I would just do it. I know the feeling of trying to feed a dog everything and still having them refuse, and I like a thin dog but I don't want to see spine. 

Is there any chance she could be having an issue with her teeth? 

And what about making a "gruel"? Hot water and then something really smelly and gross, like tripe? Or what about sardines?


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

She is a belgian malinois, almost two. All of my other mals are a good weight.

I have not tried freeze dried. She won't eat raw. I have coaxed her into satin balls, anything else must be at least partially cooked. Even boiled chicken she will only eat so much of. 

I have done free feeding, scheduled meals, and fasting. She has recently gained weight, but it is a pita to keep much on her.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Try the freeze dried. Our dogs go crazy, even my finnicky Sibe, Delilah. I was hard pressed to get her to eat a cup a day of kibble. We feed Grandma Lucy's Pureformance Chicken. Don't worry about the sticker shock it makes 51 lbs of food and ends up cheaper than kibble. I swear by it.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I have tried fromm, I don't recall which flavor. Maybe I shouldn't say she is that picky, as she will eat different things but only for a day or so. 

She has been this way since I got her as a pup. Teeth and health is great. I will often tease her with another dog or two, since she will eat more to compete with them.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Mheath0429 said:


> Try the freeze dried. Our dogs go crazy, even my finnicky Sibe, Delilah. I was hard pressed to get her to eat a cup a day of kibble. We feed Grandma Lucy's Pureformance Chicken. Don't worry about the sticker shock it makes 51 lbs of food and ends up cheaper than kibble. I swear by it.


 Where is this available? So do you soak and then feed?


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## Dog Problemz (Jun 9, 2012)

Not so great in terms of the actual ingredients. Looking at Royal Canin's ingredients... The main ingredient is chicken meal. Meal is fine as a second or third ingredient, but the first ingredient should be unprocessed meat. The next few ingredients are brown rice and oats. Not only is grain not necessary for dogs to eat, it is also toxic to them. Just like it is to humans. The reason cows, horses, elephants and other animals that naturally eat grasses and grains have multiple stomachs is not only because it would be impossible to digest otherwise, but also to chemically bind toxins in grain to neutralize them. Even the natural eaters of grain cannot fully digest its contents, and the food comes out looking relatively the same as it did coming in. Grain isn't a natural part of either dog's or human's diets, but it is highly pressed as a source of fiber by farmers and "nutritionists" because it is the highest grossing agriculture product. Remember, wolves and humans bonded together in the first place because they naturally ate the same foods. The next ingredient after that is chicken fat. Fat is healthy, but not when it's listed as one of the top ingredients. Then there is processed beet pulp. While beets are great for dog's health, beet pulp on the other hand, is mostly sugar and fiber. Following that is corn gluten meal, which is sugar, which is completely poisonous to dogs and should never, ever be a part of any dog food. Natural chicken flavor comes next on the list, and then brewer's yeast, an appetite stimulant commonly put in low-quality dog foods to make them addictive. The rest of the ingredients include added salt, and chemically produced vitamins and minerals. To top it off, this product even contains Mono-Sodium Glutamate. Also called MSG, it is an addictive food additive commonly used to make low quality foods, like Cup of Noodle and Top Ramen, more appealing. This dog food consists almost entirely of processed meat, grain, salt, food additives, and lab-made vitamins and minerals. What's missing here is any form of real meat, and it has absolutely no fruits or vegetables whatsoever. Considering that a dog's natural diet is made up of real meat, fruits, and vegetables, and absolutely no grain whatsoever excluding occasionally grass (which isn't listed here, either), this dog food is highly processed and unnatural. I would consider it unfit for consumption for any animal.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

You can get it at most specialty places. I just order online. Wag.com has free 2 day. shipping and first order gets 15% off just look for the coupon code on the front webpage. All the grandma lucys are good. If u go to the website you can get specifics on everything. It even has puppy guidelines. Its all life stages and human grade. We mix 1 cup pureformance with 1 cup warm water. Stir let sit a few minutes and then it gets gobbled down.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Thank you all. I will try the freeze dried.

Dog problez,, what is your opinion on 4health dog food?


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## +two (Jul 12, 2011)

Have you tried Sojos? It is another kind of raw dog food mix that I hear is quite successful for picky eaters. I am not sure where you are but most "holistic" pet stores will carry it. You could also try to find a distributor through their website. 

What about Ziwi Peak? I know they sell trial size bags and you can see if she goes nuts for it or not. IMO, it is too expensive to feed as a whole diet but works well for training. It may do the trick if mixed in with other kibble/raw. 

Hey, can we see a picture? I love hearing about your dogs (and I envy your living) but I don't remember ever seeing them.


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## Gina_1978 (Jun 3, 2012)

Dog Problemz said:


> Not so great in terms of the actual ingredients. Looking at Royal Canin's ingredients... The main ingredient is chicken meal. Meal is fine as a second or third ingredient, but the first ingredient should be unprocessed meat. The next few ingredients are brown rice and oats. Not only is grain not necessary for dogs to eat, it is also toxic to them. Just like it is to humans. The reason cows, horses, elephants and other animals that naturally eat grasses and grains have multiple stomachs is not only because it would be impossible to digest otherwise, but also to chemically bind toxins in grain to neutralize them. Even the natural eaters of grain cannot fully digest its contents, and the food comes out looking relatively the same as it did coming in. Grain isn't a natural part of either dog's or human's diets, but it is highly pressed as a source of fiber by farmers and "nutritionists" because it is the highest grossing agriculture product. Remember, wolves and humans bonded together in the first place because they naturally ate the same foods. The next ingredient after that is chicken fat. Fat is healthy, but not when it's listed as one of the top ingredients. Then there is processed beet pulp. While beets are great for dog's health, beet pulp on the other hand, is mostly sugar and fiber. Following that is corn gluten meal, which is sugar, which is completely poisonous to dogs and should never, ever be a part of any dog food. Natural chicken flavor comes next on the list, and then brewer's yeast, an appetite stimulant commonly put in low-quality dog foods to make them addictive. The rest of the ingredients include added salt, and chemically produced vitamins and minerals. To top it off, this product even contains Mono-Sodium Glutamate. Also called MSG, it is an addictive food additive commonly used to make low quality foods, like Cup of Noodle and Top Ramen, more appealing. This dog food consists almost entirely of processed meat, grain, salt, food additives, and lab-made vitamins and minerals. What's missing here is any form of real meat, and it has absolutely no fruits or vegetables whatsoever. Considering that a dog's natural diet is made up of real meat, fruits, and vegetables, and absolutely no grain whatsoever excluding occasionally grass (which isn't listed here, either), this dog food is highly processed and unnatural. I would consider it unfit for consumption for any animal.


I found this post VERY interesting.When I got my pups,I asumed that Royal canin (breed specific) was *the* best food out there because of it´s price (at 20€ *$25* for a *3lb* bag,its the most expensive on the market) and because it can only be found at veterinary clinics (not in regular stores).
Now that I think about it,the ingredients list is very short and you´re right,it has no vegatables or fruit of any kind.

I recently switched to Acana (puppy small breed),its ALOT cheaper (16€ *$20* for a *5lb* bag) yet I´ve read it´s quality is alot better than RC..is that true?


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## oldhounddog (May 31, 2010)

juliemule ,

I think you are doing the right by trying different foods to see what works. I am not a fan of The Royal C or Bil-jac products , however , I do think the 4-Health is a very good base to build on and finding foods to add that Gretta will eat is Key. I had an Irish Setter with the same problem with trying to put weight on her. What worked with her was adding healthy food from our table to her food that did it , even then it was an up hill battle. She liked and meat source foods from our table , we would cook things like beef/pork and turkey that we could find on sale and add to her food from our table. When she saw and smelled that it came from our food she would eat very well. Just keep on trying things and you will find what works.

oldhounddog


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

Royal Canin and Bil Jack are not good foods, BUT...some dogs can't or won't eat the better kibbles. I have a friend who used to raise German Sheperds, and her dogs got sick, lost weight, and had excessive hair loss on both Blue Buffalo and Taste of the Wild. The only food they did well on is Purina Pro Plan Performance, which is NOT a good food. She still has one of the dogs purely as a pet now, and she continues to feed her this food (she now feeds Sam's version of this food b/c it's cheaper).

4 Health is a decent food at a very good price, especially the Potato and Salmon, which is grain free. My westiepoo seems to be sensitive to potatoes, or I'd feed it! I feed Innova Prime Salmon and Herring, which my dogs love. They also really like Acana grain free - the Pacifica is very strong smelling - maybe your dog would like that! I quit feeding Acana b/c it has potato in it, but it's a great food.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Gina_1978 said:


> I recently switched to Acana (puppy small breed),its ALOT cheaper (16€ *$20* for a *5lb* bag) yet I´ve read it´s quality is alot better than RC..is that true?


IMO, absolutely. Acana is a really nice food. It might be helpful for you to compare the ingredients. Acana. Royal Canin. Just goes to show that more expensive does not always mean better.



Dog Problemz said:


> Meal is fine as a second or third ingredient, but the first ingredient should be unprocessed meat.


I don't really agree with this. It might be a lofty ideal, but I'd much rather see several named meals than one meal and a whole bunch of fresh meats. IMO the fresh meats are sort of gimmicky because they're mostly water. It's certainly not a bad thing if a food contains fresh meats at the beginning but for me it is far from a requirement.


Anyway, to the OP, I don't think Royal Canin is so bad that I would avoid it if that's really all your dog likes. It contains corn (and corn gluten as a protein booster) and wheat, but if your dog doesn't have an issue with those things it's not so bad. It's certainly overpriced but at least the first ingredient is a meat meal for the formulas I've looked at. It's certainly far better in quality than your average generic or something like Beneful that hardly contains any meat at all.


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## Pekinchick (Jun 11, 2012)

Have you tried the 15 minute rule? You leave food down for 15 minutes then take away whatever's left and then not feed again until the next feeding time. Also no treats in between, not even chews if she didn't finish her meal. My dog will eat anything if I add salmon oil. I also make him a variety of cooked meats mixed with either homemade gravy, yogurt or organic broth. I freeze them in ice cube trays and melt 1 cube onto his meal. 

I also make a huge fuss over him whenever he finishes his meal so that he knows that eating all of his food makes me really happy which makes him really happy. Royal canin isn't a good food.


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## Abbylynn (Jul 7, 2011)

To answer your question about the 4Health? ...

I use and love 4Health. I have been using it for about a year now. My dogs do great on it. I add other foods like BB and Wellness ... and did add TOTW to it to keep their meals interesting and to keep them from being bored.

In fact I just bought a 35 pound bag of 4Health Chicken and Rice ... and the new Salmon and Potato was on sale at TSC for $4.99 on a 5 lb bag ... so I bought one of those to see if they like it. I am also currently using Wellness Super5 Mix and BB Fish and Sweet Potato. My dogs are fat and sassy! Lol!  Actually these foods do cause my dogs to gain weight if I am not carefully measuring it out.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

I don't think RC is THAT bad. If she does well on it, and it's all she eats... then why change? Yes, I think you could do better, and I think in most places RC is horribly over-priced. But they have good quality control, few recalls, and I admit, a lot of dogs seem to do well on it. My uncle's Shepherd has the prettiest softest coat I've ever seen and it's what she eats.

You can find a few formulas without any corn too, but if your dog does fine with it, I don't think it's, like... awful.


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## Gina_1978 (Jun 3, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I don't think RC is THAT bad. If she does well on it, and it's all she eats... then why change? Yes, I think you could do better, and I think in most places RC is horribly over-priced. But they have good quality control, few recalls, and I admit, a lot of dogs seem to do well on it. My uncle's Shepherd has the prettiest softest coat I've ever seen and it's what she eats.
> 
> You can find a few formulas without any corn too, but if your dog does fine with it, I don't think it's, like... awful.


Oh I dont think it´s terrible.Infact,I have always fed royal canin to my dogs asuming that it´s price meant that I was giving my pets the best food I could give them.They did well on it (meaning they´d eat it with no problems),but my previous yorkies all had AWFUL awful coats,and I had no idea what was causing that at all.It never ocurred to me that it could be the their food,because how can a 3lb bag of kibble that costs $25 not be giving them all they need? 
This time around we started on royal canin again,but something told me that I should try another brand..even if it was cheaper.This is why we have switched to Acana...and as for how their coats do on it,well,we´ll see  

I honestly dont like what I´m reading about royal canin and I do wish that I had done my homework before instead of spending hundreds on vitamins and suppliments for my dogs coats when the problem could have just been their food  Many dogs do fine on it,I dont doubt that at all  But I´d rather stear clear of it for now.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

I second the 15 min rule. I know people freak out when told about this, at least those who I have told sometimes do. But a dog will not starve itself unless something is seriously wrong. 

Um which brands have you tried, other than the ones you have stated? Seems to me she is just working off all the nutrients from her food. I don't know if RC has a high protein food, never have looked into it. I know 4health has a performance food. 

I tend to switch between 4 health and Pro plan, when we forget to check are stock because we have a TSC up the road. My dogs get the 4 health canned, a spoonful at each meal. BB is a very active girl, she is outside most of the day, running the 3 acre yard, and we do canicross whenever the weather will cooperate. So she is on a mixture of PP performance, and PP sensitive skin and stomach (which she has neither of but I like that it is fish based). She gets a little of 4health canned (I do not get the beef stew something about that has made my dogs sick, and it tends to be only gravy with very little meat). And she is on a multi vit twice a day. She is in good weight now, where as when she was on a lower protein food she was getting too skinny. 

I agree that if RC is working, then you should stick with it. My philosophy is that if the dog is eating it, is doing well on it, then the dog should stay on it. Don't change it just cause people make you feel guilty about feeding it (cause there are those that will), it is your dog and your dog alone, so you know what is best for her.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I have tried wellness, blue buffalo, merrick, totw, acana, solid gold, iams, pedigree, bil jac, halo, a few others I know. Normally I keep everyone on 4 health. It's good and affordable, as I usually have around 15 large dogs.

The problem with offering her food then taking it up, she will eat a few bites, then she is off. If I continue that for days she drops weight like crazy. I don't give treats really, unless its the pups in training. I will try to post a pic, she doesn't look too bad this week, but I have really been adding a bunch to her feed the past month.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Here are two of her.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

At my local kennel club (training club) most of the breeders have their dogs on Royal Canin, and their dogs look absolutely fantastic. Some of them work in conformation. They have beautiful coats and bright eyes. 

Royal Canin is not going to hurt your dog, and it is definitely not the same as 'junk' food. It's fairly decent, with several formulas having chicken meal and rice as the main ingredients. If it works for your dog then feed it to your dog. Every dog does differently on different foods, but just because your dog did 'bad' on a food doesn't mean the food itself is bad.


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

If you can afford it you could try Vital refrigerated foods, I'm feeding my dog Complete Meals right now, she goes crazy for it... But it's $20 for a 3lb bag! Very good food though.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Kayota said:


> If you can afford it you could try Vital refrigerated foods, I'm feeding my dog Complete Meals right now, she goes crazy for it... But it's $20 for a 3lb bag! Very good food though.


Currently I'm feeding between 45-60 lbs a week. So that's out lol.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Hallie said:


> At my local kennel club (training club) most of the breeders have their dogs on Royal Canin, and their dogs look absolutely fantastic. Some of them work in conformation. They have beautiful coats and bright eyes.
> 
> Royal Canin is not going to hurt your dog, and it is definitely not the same as 'junk' food. It's fairly decent, with several formulas having chicken meal and rice as the main ingredients. If it works for your dog then feed it to your dog. Every dog does differently on different foods, but just because your dog did 'bad' on a food doesn't mean the food itself is bad.


 I don't mean to be rude, but I strongly disagree with this. After looking over the ingredients, CORN is the almost always the most prevalent source of protein. This is never good for dogs, even if they don't have allergies. Dogs need meat proteins to keep their bodies running efficiently. At the rate you are going, you might as well feed pedigree.

Royal Canin:
Ingredients:
Chicken meal, brewers rice, brown rice, corn, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, wheat gluten, dried beet pulp, vegetable oil, brewers dried yeast, fish oil, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, salt, fructooligosaccharides, sodium tripolyphosphate, DL-methionine, choline chloride, L-lysine, magnesium oxide, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], taurine, trace minerals (zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), L-carnitine, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid 

Pedigree:
GROUND WHOLE CORN, MEAT AND BONE MEAL, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, ANIMAL FAT (PRESERVED WITH BHA/CITRIC ACID), SOYBEAN MEAL, GROUND WHOLE WHEAT, BREWERS RICE, DRIED PLAIN BEET PULP, NATURAL FLAVOR, SALT, VEGETABLE OIL ([SOURCE OF LINOLEIC ACID] PRESERVED WITH BHA/BHT), POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, VITAMINS (CHOLINE CHLORIDE, a-TOCOPHEROL ACETATE [SOURCE OF VITAMIN E], NIACIN, BIOTIN, d-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT [VITAMIN B2], PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, THIAMINE MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1], VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT) MINERALS (ZINC SULFATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER SULFATE, POTASSIUM IODIDE, COPPER PROTEINATE, MANGANESE PROTEINATE), ADDED FD&C COLORS (RED 40, YELLOW 5, BLUE 2


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

I third the 15 minute rule. Royal Canin isn't horrible, you can do better, if you want to change.


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Have you tried EVO? I don't normally recommend it because most of their formulas have way too much protein for the average dog. But she sounds like she is burning too many calories and not taking in enough, so EVO might work.


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Mheath0429 said:


> I don't mean to be rude, but I strongly disagree with this. After looking over the ingredients, CORN is the almost always the most prevalent source of protein. This is never good for dogs, even if they don't have allergies. Dogs need meat proteins to keep their bodies running efficiently. At the rate you are going, you might as well feed pedigree.
> 
> Royal Canin:
> Ingredients:
> ...


As seen above^^ Royal Canin is much much better than Pedigree. Like I said, if her dog does well on it and will eat it, then there's no need to change. It isn't going to harm to OP's dog.

ETA- I'm keeping my reply short because I really want to avoid a nasty corn/dog food debate.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Hallie said:


> As seen above^^ Royal Canin is much much better than Pedigree. Like I said, if her dog does well on it and will eat it, then there's no need to change. It isn't going to harm to OP's dog.
> 
> ETA- I'm keeping my reply short because I really want to avoid a nasty corn/dog food debate.


Lol I agree. I prefer to not feed corn. I don't think its the end all however. I'm not sure if she will do well on it, simply because I have only tried it for about a week. All I know is that she really likes to eat it, where the other food she turns up her nose. She will eat the others, as someone stated she don't starve. But we jokingly call her an ethiopian malinos, because she gets so skinny. 

She runs and plays non stop. She also works about four or five days a week in training, then on call outs. So she is burning tons of energy. I'm used to thin malinois, as most young ones are. She is just bones if I don't really add tons to her already high performance diet.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

Mheath0429 said:


> After looking over the ingredients, CORN is the almost always the most prevalent source of protein. This is never good for dogs, even if they don't have allergies. Dogs need meat proteins to keep their bodies running efficiently. At the rate you are going, you might as well feed pedigree.
> 
> Royal Canin:
> Ingredients:
> ...


I don't know how you can claim that corn is the primary source of protein when the very first ingredient is a meat meal. Corn doesn't even come until the 4th ingredient and a corn protein doesn't appear until the 5th ingredient. Now this may be more plant protein than you want to see, but it certainly isn't "the most prevalent source of protein."

I also find it kind of interesting that you linked the ingredients to compare it to Pedigree...if you look at those ingredients it is blatantly clear that they aren't comparable AT ALL. The *very first* ingredient for Pedigree is corn, while it doesn't appear until much later for RC. Pedigree contains absolutely no named meat meals, while the *very first* ingredient in RC is chicken meal. Pedigree contains generic animal fat while RC contains chicken fat. Pedigree contains BHA and numerous food colorings/dyes, while RC contains neither of these things. IMO they are in no way similar foods.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

ChaosIsAWeim said:


> Have you tried EVO? I don't normally recommend it because most of their formulas have way too much protein for the average dog. But she sounds like she is burning too many calories and not taking in enough, so EVO might work.


I honestly don't remember. I know I had tried one food that was something and fish, the dark lobbied was fish and she would pick out each dark piece and leave the rest. If I could find that dark pieces only again, lol, I know it was one of the better brands. She is so difficult lol.


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

kafkabeetle said:


> I don't know how you can claim that corn is the primary source of protein when the very first ingredient is a meat meal. Corn doesn't even come until the 4th ingredient and a corn protein doesn't appear until the 5th ingredient. Now this may be more plant protein than you want to see, but it certainly isn't "the most prevalent source of protein."
> 
> I also find it kind of interesting that you linked the ingredients to compare it to Pedigree...if you look at those ingredients it is blatantly clear that they aren't comparable AT ALL. The *very first* ingredient for Pedigree is corn, while it doesn't appear until much later for RC. Pedigree contains absolutely no named meat meals, while the *very first* ingredient in RC is chicken meal. Pedigree contains generic animal fat while RC contains chicken fat. Pedigree contains BHA and numerous food colorings/dyes, while RC contains neither of these things. IMO they are in no way similar foods.


This ^ x1000.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Alright, I was just trying to point out that they both use corn, corn gluten and wheat. I admit that it wasn't the best comparison. My bad.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

I agree with those who are saying Royal Canin isn't THAT bad. Certainly not the worst on the market, and I believe better than Bil-Jac. It wouldn't be my first choice (and obviously it's not yours), but a higher quality food won't accomplish anything if she won't eat it! And Ziwipeak and so forth are great...for those who have tiny dogs...or are made of money. For the rest of us, I say go with the best thing you can convince your dog to eat!


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## DaViking (Apr 13, 2012)

Royal Canin isn't bad at all, a bit pricey for what you get though. Comparing it to Pedigree is ridiculous, it's among the very best of the mid tier foods imo. You can find better alternatives in the same price range but if the selection is limited and the dog will eat it I'd stick with it. Maybe add some rolls or canned food?


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

Gina_1978 said:


> I found this post VERY interesting.When I got my pups,I asumed that Royal canin (breed specific) was *the* best food out there because of it´s price (at 20€ *$25* for a *3lb* bag,its the most expensive on the market) and because it can only be found at veterinary clinics (not in regular stores).
> Now that I think about it,the ingredients list is very short and you´re right,*it has no vegatables or fruit of any kind.*
> 
> I recently switched to Acana (puppy small breed),its ALOT cheaper (16€ *$20* for a *5lb* bag) yet I´ve read it´s quality is alot better than RC..is that true?


Dogs are carnivores and don't need fruits or vegetables, too much vegetation can actually be detrimental to a dog (and cats) health. The reason Royal Canin is so terrible is because of the ingredients they use. Corn, soy, wheat, chemicals, etc have no place in dog food, and that is why Royal Canin sucks. I don't even get why they make it so expensive, it isn't as if we are running low on corn here!

Acana is 100 times better than Royal Canin. I wouldn't feed Royal Canin to my dogs if they payed me a million dollars a bag, but if I had to switch back to commercial food I would probably choose something like Acana or Orijen.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

LilasMom said:


> *Corn, soy, wheat,* chemicals, etc have no place in dog food, and that is why Royal Canin sucks.


I don't understand what's inherently wrong with those ingredients if your dog does ok on them and has no allergies. They're all just sources of carbohydrate, the same as rice or peas or sweet potatoes. In a food that isn't overly carby, I probably wouldn't object to them. This food seems to contain a lot more meat than your average food that contains these things.

I'd be interested to hear what "chemicals" you're objecting to.


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

By chemicals I mean all the extra vitamins they have to put in because of all the fillers they use. I should have worded it better, my bad. And what is wrong with those ingredients is that most cheap corn and soy is genetically modified and corn and soy, rice, peas, sweet potatoes no matter genetically modified or organic are not really needed by a dogs body. Processing veggies is just extra work on a dogs body. It wasn't designed to process those types of ingredients.


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

kafkabeetle said:


> I don't understand what's inherently wrong with those ingredients if your dog does ok on them and has no allergies. They're all just sources of carbohydrate, the same as rice or peas or sweet potatoes. In a food that isn't overly carby, I probably wouldn't object to them. *This food seems to contain a lot more meat than your average food that contains these things.*
> 
> I'd be interested to hear what "chemicals" you're objecting to.


Isn't that just comparing something to something else that is similar? If you are comparing it to something as bad or worse then of course royal canin is better, but just because something is better than the worst doesn't make it good. I would rather pay less for a higher quality food that I know has no genetically modified grains and has meat as the first few ingredients.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

LilasMom said:


> By chemicals I mean all the extra vitamins they have to put in because of all the fillers they use. I should have worded it better, my bad. And what is wrong with those ingredients is that most cheap corn and soy is genetically modified and corn and soy, rice, peas, sweet potatoes no matter genetically modified or organic are not really needed by a dogs body. Processing veggies is just extra work on a dogs body. It wasn't designed to process those types of ingredients.


Ok, well then lets be clear. You don't agree with any kibble.



LilasMom said:


> Isn't that just comparing something to something else that is similar? If you are comparing it to something as bad or worse then of course royal canin is better, but just because something is better than the worst doesn't make it good. *I would rather pay less for a higher quality food that I know has no genetically modified grains and has meat as the first few ingredients.*


Ok, well that's awesome for you then. But the OP clearly stated that their dog won't eat anything else.

And btw, all I was trying to say was that you (and others) are probably blinded by the quality of *most* foods that contain soy, wheat, corn etc in the same way that many are blinded by the quality of most grain inclusive. IMO there is nothing wrong with grains, especially things like oatmeal and millet. I would feed a grain inclusive food in a heartbeat if I could find one as high in fat and low in carbs as the grain free foods I choose to feed. Therefore it would be a mistake for me to say "grain inclusive foods suck because most of them are really carby." But if GMO is your gripe I guess that's a whole different issue I won't get into, LOL.


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## meggels (Mar 8, 2010)

Maybe try Earthborn Holistic's grain free's? They've always been very palatable to dogs I've introduced them to


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

kafkabeetle said:


> Ok, well then lets be clear. You don't agree with any kibble..


That isn't true. I disagree with kibbles that include soy, corn, and wheat, and I disagree with kibbles that include high amounts carbs. Just because I disagree with low quality kibble doesn't mean I disagree with all kibbles. And I do think if you can, avoid grains. It is extra work on a dogs body to process those types of things.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

LilasMom said:


> It is extra work on a dogs body to process those types of things.


More than potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas, tapioca, lentils or chickpeas? Sorry, but I don't buy that grains are any more difficult for a dog to process than any other sorts of carbs.


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## LazyGRanch713 (Jul 22, 2009)

LilasMom said:


> By chemicals I mean all the extra vitamins they have to put in because of all the fillers they use. I should have worded it better, my bad. And what is wrong with those ingredients is that most cheap corn and soy is genetically modified and corn and soy, rice, peas, sweet potatoes no matter genetically modified or organic are not really needed by a dogs body. Processing veggies is just extra work on a dogs body. It wasn't designed to process those types of ingredients.


I've fed ground veggies for years, and so far my dogs haven't had issues with them. I pulverize them and the dogs love them. 
Orijen, though an excellent food that I would feed (if I could afford it...) has a lot of vitamins and things added back in as well as the "other" dry foods you were referring to, as well as a lot of "worthless, hard to digest" veggies and fruits! ;P. From what I understand, it's NOT because of using fillers, but it's because when you cook food to turn it into dry kibble, you cook a lot of the vitamins and minerals out and you need to add them back in. Which is why a lot of people who do home cooked diets have to know their stuff, cooking kills a lot of the vitamin/minerals and messes with their balance so they need to add it back in some way. From what I gather, that's why, say, canned 95% meat diets say "for supplemental feeding only". It's canned meat, water, and broth. No vitamins or minerals added; so for the long haul you would be doing no favors for anyone by feeding such a diet day in day out, kwim?
(Orijen) Fresh boneless chicken*, chicken meal, fresh boneless salmon*, turkey meal, herring meal, russet potato, peas, sweet potato, fresh boneless turkey*, fresh whole eggs*, fresh chicken liver*, fresh boneless lake whitefish*, fresh boneless walleye*, sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), organic kelp, pumpkin, chicory root, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.
ETA: I've tried numerous foods and diets on my GSD, and nothing makes him look as good or keep weight on or prevent diarrhea like RC has. I don't feed it exclusively, but it gives him a good coat, good weight, and a good (even) energy level...not nutso off the wall and not lethargic. I wish it weren't so expensive, but if it keeps him looking good and feeling good, I'll take it. If anyone wants to try him on something "better", I welcome you to take him home and switch him  FYI--stock up on paper towels. Oh, and get a step ladder. If he eats anything too rich for his system, he can crap 6 feet up a wall...


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

I feed the frozen NVI or Stella/ chewies raw, with NVI beef Kibble. Mine will only eat about a cup a day, 1 1/2 at the most (she gets fed once a day bc she won't eat in the am either :/) I feed her three patties with one cup of dry. 

She doesn't like satin balls??? Wow she really must be picky :/.


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## Mizbri (Jun 13, 2012)

Dog Problemz said:


> Not so great in terms of the actual ingredients. Looking at Royal Canin's ingredients... The main ingredient is chicken meal. Meal is fine as a second or third ingredient, but the first ingredient should be unprocessed meat. The next few ingredients are brown rice and oats. Not only is grain not necessary for dogs to eat, it is also toxic to them. Just like it is to humans. The reason cows, horses, elephants and other animals that naturally eat grasses and grains have multiple stomachs is not only because it would be impossible to digest otherwise, but also to chemically bind toxins in grain to neutralize them. Even the natural eaters of grain cannot fully digest its contents, and the food comes out looking relatively the same as it did coming in. Grain isn't a natural part of either dog's or human's diets, but it is highly pressed as a source of fiber by farmers and "nutritionists" because it is the highest grossing agriculture product. Remember, wolves and humans bonded together in the first place because they naturally ate the same foods. The next ingredient after that is chicken fat. Fat is healthy, but not when it's listed as one of the top ingredients. Then there is processed beet pulp. While beets are great for dog's health, beet pulp on the other hand, is mostly sugar and fiber. Following that is corn gluten meal, which is sugar, which is completely poisonous to dogs and should never, ever be a part of any dog food. Natural chicken flavor comes next on the list, and then brewer's yeast, an appetite stimulant commonly put in low-quality dog foods to make them addictive. The rest of the ingredients include added salt, and chemically produced vitamins and minerals. To top it off, this product even contains Mono-Sodium Glutamate. Also called MSG, it is an addictive food additive commonly used to make low quality foods, like Cup of Noodle and Top Ramen, more appealing. This dog food consists almost entirely of processed meat, grain, salt, food additives, and lab-made vitamins and minerals. What's missing here is any form of real meat, and it has absolutely no fruits or vegetables whatsoever. Considering that a dog's natural diet is made up of real meat, fruits, and vegetables, and absolutely no grain whatsoever excluding occasionally grass (which isn't listed here, either), this dog food is highly processed and unnatural. I would consider it unfit for consumption for any animal.


Whoa! Thanks for this break down! I am feeding Iams, and I took the info here to comapare my label...yikes!


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Mizbri said:


> Whoa! Thanks for this break down! I am feeding Iams, and I took the info here to comapare my label...yikes!


Unfortunately, this "break down" is total nonsense for several reasons...

1. "The main ingredient is chicken meal. Meal is fine as a second or third ingredient, but the first ingredient should be unprocessed meat." Actually, as others have said, a named meat meal like "chicken meal" is perfectly fine. It's basically just chicken with the water removed.
2. "The next few ingredients are brown rice and oats. Not only is grain not necessary for dogs to eat, it is also toxic to them. Just like it is to humans." Obvious nonsense. If grain was toxic, we would all be dead. 
3. "...Following that is corn gluten meal, which is sugar, which is completely poisonous to dogs and should never, ever be a part of any dog food." Ummm..no. Corn gluten is PROTEIN. Cheap protein and not as good as meat protein, but definitely not sugar and not "completely poisonous."
4. "brewer's yeast, an appetite stimulant commonly put in low-quality dog foods to make them addictive." This is just false. Brewer's yeast is a byproduct from breweries and is mostly protein. Some people think it causes allergies, but other people think it keeps away fleas. Again, not the best protein source, but it's not some sort of dog addiction conspiracy either.
5. "this dog food is highly processed and unnatural." Go ahead, try to find a kibble that's not "highly processed." That's what kibble is, by definition.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

I already made myself look like a big dummy on this thread, but this site seemed to help pick through some of the dog food myths: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=myths 

As far as grains go, I will not feed a grain inclusive food. My adult Siberian has horrible allergies to grain and cannot seem to tolerate any in her food. I have tried anything from freeze dried, kibble, to making rice and chicken. She throws anything with Grains up, or she ends up getting diarrhea. 

While I wouldn't feed a grain inclusive food, I guess someone else might be comfortable with it. 

FWIW, RC might be better than "grocery store" brands, and yes the dog eats it, but that doesn't mean it is a high quality food. I'll gladly stick by that ideal.

High Price Tag does not equal High Quality.


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## LilasMom (Jan 18, 2012)

kafkabeetle said:


> More than potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas, tapioca, lentils or chickpeas? Sorry, but I don't buy that grains are any more difficult for a dog to process than any other sorts of carbs.


I was referring to all of those. Some of those ingredients are better than others, and some aren't too bad, but mostly- meat kibble is of course going to be easier to digest than one that is mostly potatoes, or corn, peas, etc.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

hamandeggs said:


> Unfortunately, this "break down" is total nonsense for several reasons...
> 
> 1. "The main ingredient is chicken meal. Meal is fine as a second or third ingredient, but the first ingredient should be unprocessed meat." Actually, as others have said, a named meat meal like "chicken meal" is perfectly fine. It's basically just chicken with the water removed.
> 2. "The next few ingredients are brown rice and oats. Not only is grain not necessary for dogs to eat, it is also toxic to them. Just like it is to humans." Obvious nonsense. If grain was toxic, we would all be dead.
> ...


In response to #3. 

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/dog-food-corn/


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

Mheath0429 said:


> In response to #3.
> 
> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/dog-food-corn/


That is a good website! But it doesn't really address what I said. Again, corn gluten is protein. It's not the same thing as the gluten that people with gluten intolerance can't eat. But it is still not sugar and not poison.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

It was talking about the glycemic index dear, I wasn't saying it was poison at all. BUt it is very high on the glycemic index.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

LilasMom said:


> I was referring to all of those. Some of those ingredients are better than others, and some aren't too bad, but mostly- meat kibble is of course going to be easier to digest than one that is mostly potatoes, or corn, peas, etc.


Honestly I'm having difficulty following your train of thought. You are against feeding dogs plant material...or I can only assume you are because you refer to all the ones I can think of as somehow taxing on a dog's digestive system. Yet you also state that you are not against kibble altogether. But guess what? ALL kibble contains some form of carbohydrate and it all comes from plant sources. "Meat kibble" doesn't exist. It can't. It wouldn't hold together into nice little pellets. So I don't see how you can reconcile those two seemingly contradictory opinions. 

Btw, in case their is any confusion, meat is the primary ingredient in the Royal Canin ingredients list provided earlier. Maybe it's not as much as EVO or Orijen, but it's probably a similar amount to something like California Naturals, and even some formulas made by Fromm and Wellness. We're not talking about a food that contains a minuscule amount of meat here. It contains 50% carbohydrate which is pretty much normal for better quality grain-inclusive foods. It's a middle of the road food. No one claimed it was a bargain...it's been stated many times that it is overpriced, but it still isn't bad going off of quality alone.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

hamandeggs said:


> Again, corn gluten is protein. It's not the same thing as the gluten that people with gluten intolerance can't eat. But it is still not sugar and not poison.


It actually is the same gluten that people with intolerances can't eat. Many vegetarians create seitan by kneading a ball of flour dough in water until all of the starches dissolve and you're left with pure gluten, the protein of most grains. It's definitely not a carb, but a plant protein. So no, it is NOT high on the glycemic index because it contains no carbohydrates at all!

Seitan









But I of course agree that there is nothing wrong with it for your average person or dog who doesn't have an intolerance to it. That's like saying milk is inherently unhealthy just because some people have difficulty digesting it. Or that mangos are poison for everyone because I just happen to have a severe allergy to them.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I actually don't mind.feeding some grains. I tend to stay away from corn as I do have one sensitive to it, but Greta is ok on it. Ideally, I would like to feed raw. But with as many as I have, a work schedule of 24-48 hour shifts, then travel and call outs, its just not feasible at this point. Greta HATES raw anything.


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## Mheath0429 (Sep 4, 2011)

Juliemule, try the freeze dried. It's the closest you can get to raw.


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## hamandeggs (Aug 11, 2011)

kafkabeetle said:


> It actually is the same gluten that people with intolerances can't eat. Many vegetarians create seitan by kneading a ball of flour dough in water until all of the starches dissolve and you're left with pure gluten, the protein of most grains. It's definitely not a carb, but a plant protein. So no, it is NOT high on the glycemic index because it contains no carbohydrates at all!


I'm aware it's a protein, obviously...but are you sure it's the same as wheat gluten? My understanding was that people with gluten intolerance can eat corn (unless there's been cross contamination). 

We're saying the same thing though. "Corn" writ large might be high on the glycemic index, but "corn gluten" is a part of corn that is only protein.


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## kafkabeetle (Dec 4, 2009)

hamandeggs said:


> I'm aware it's a protein, obviously...but are you sure it's the same as wheat gluten? My understanding was that people with gluten intolerance can eat corn (unless there's been cross contamination).
> 
> We're saying the same thing though. "Corn" writ large might be high on the glycemic index, but "corn gluten" is a part of corn that is only protein.


Huh, upon further research it seems that gluten is only the protein of wheat and corn gluten is actually a misnomer, because corn doesn't contain actual gluten. It should be stated as corn protein or corn protein meal.


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## DaViking (Apr 13, 2012)

Mheath0429 said:


> In response to #3.
> 
> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/dog-food-corn/


I like that site but there is also a lot of rubbish written there. That article is a good example of the best of intentions turned into nonsense with little educational value at the end of the day. In fact reading that article closely you'll find that, except for some very few points who are not really related to nutrition, cooked/processed corn is not bad at all and is a perfectly good ingredient used together with other animal and plant sources to make a balanced formula for whatever use. The article seems to believe that everyone else thinks corn is the best thing since sliced bread and should be responsible for most of the nutrition in a formula. The author of the article is wrong in that respect, except for maybe a few crazies no one preaches that. He even compare it to meat sources. Again good brands who use corn does not include it as a cheap substitute for meat. If that was their gameplan they could just do a corn, soy, legumes and spirulina mix and they would have a complete amino acid profile. Except for some grocery, a few big box brands and various bargain basement brands corn play a lesser role and is not there to substitute meat. In mid tier brands and up that contain corn animal sources usually account for 70 to 90% of the protein anyway. So bottom line is imo, if used as the carbohydrate it is, with it's unique properties, processed corn is a perfectly good ingredient in low to moderate carb formulas. Is it the best carb alternative? Nope but it certainly does not deserve all the hate it get from some. Not touching the whole GMO side of things because it's more a personal thing and not related to nutritional value. There are alternatives if you do not want any GMO products.

And I have to ask; what differences in the chicken protein from chicken meal vs deboned chicken do you find after extruding/processing into kibble? You have touched on this a few times and just thought I'd ask what you mean?


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## TTs Towel (May 22, 2012)

.......................


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## Hallie (Nov 9, 2008)

Someone opened a can of worms :doh:


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## ChaosIsAWeim (Feb 12, 2011)

Hallie said:


> Someone opened a can of worms :doh:


Yep exactly.


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## titiaamor (Nov 17, 2011)

ROFL over here in Brazil! RC is the best I can get here...we trade our vet services for English classes, so it doesn't hurt as much. 




LazyGRanch713 said:


> Oh, and get a step ladder. If he eats anything too rich for his system, he can crap 6 feet up a wall...


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't consider Royal Canin even close to a decent kibble. You can definitely do better  The decent ones are: Taste of the Wild, Orijen, Acana, Wellness (I heard they got sold, so not sure now).

Canine nutrition should compose of the following: Meat, Organs, Bones, Cartilage, and a little Fruits and Vegetables. That's what they need. And I'm pretty sure a lot of illnesses and diseases can be prevented through diet alone.

Yes they can "tolerate" eating corn, grain, rice, brewers rice, by products, etc. and won't die on the spot, but it is not what's best for their system.


If your dog is really picky, try making the kibble "wet" by soaking it with some chicken broth. This will make it more appealing to them generally.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

She won't touch watered down food. If I add something like beef stew, she will literally lick the gravy off each piece of kibble. Mostly I feed 4health. She does like bil-jac, so occasionally I will buy a bag, but I don't care to feed corn based feed.

She still won't touch raw anything. She turns up her nose at canned food, the mush types. She will eat the chunk type canned, so I mix it up with her kibble occasionally, but usually she will still pick through.

I am getting her to eat more by feeding her next to one of the other dogs she competes with. So she will eat a little more than normal, just to keep the younger dog from getting her food. I know this isn't ideal, but its working :/

She hates TOTW, and blue buffalo.


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

juliemule said:


> She won't touch watered down food. If I add something like beef stew, she will literally lick the gravy off each piece of kibble. Mostly I feed 4health. She does like bil-jac, so occasionally I will buy a bag, but I don't care to feed corn based feed.
> 
> She still won't touch raw anything. She turns up her nose at canned food, the mush types. She will eat the chunk type canned, so I mix it up with her kibble occasionally, but usually she will still pick through.
> 
> ...


Just curious, do you ever feed her from the dinner table? Or human food generally?

Also, it might be a good idea not to give her too many treats before meals

It also might be a good idea to choose a good food, and just stick with it. If you keep changing the foods to something they will eat, she will hold out for that one because she knows it will come. A dog will never starve itself.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

chubby said:


> Just curious, do you ever feed her from the dinner table? Or human food generally?
> 
> Also, it might be a good idea not to give her too many treats before meals
> 
> It also might be a good idea to choose a good food, and just stick with it. If you keep changing the foods to something they will eat, she will hold out for that one because she knows it will come. A dog will never starve itself.


No she won't starve herself. She will eat, but only enough to survive. Little better now, but her ribs, spine, and each bone were easily felt, her ribs and spine visible. 

Sticking with one food she doesn't like won't work with this girl. I don't feed treats often, only occasionally but during training she works for a tug. The problem is she is so high energy and active, she burns more than she takes in. She has been this way since day one, just not a big eater.

I will give her table food sometimes, after she eats all she will at mealtime. I have also tried fasting with her. All vet checks are fine. Most of my working dogs are thin, but she is just so skinny.


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

juliemule said:


> No she won't starve herself. She will eat, but only enough to survive. Little better now, but her ribs, spine, and each bone were easily felt, her ribs and spine visible.
> 
> Sticking with one food she doesn't like won't work with this girl. I don't feed treats often, only occasionally but during training she works for a tug. The problem is she is so high energy and active, she burns more than she takes in. She has been this way since day one, just not a big eater.
> 
> I will give her table food sometimes, after she eats all she will at mealtime. I have also tried fasting with her. All vet checks are fine. Most of my working dogs are thin, but she is just so skinny.


Wow that is a really tough case. Have you considered getting a second opinion for the vet? The fact that she's really high energy and isn't having the appetite that should come with that is really concerning. My dog will eat anything and everything she can get her hands on, and she's extremely high energy.

I would definitely stop feeding her from your table. I know it's hard because you want her to have more food in her, but eventually she will make the association that after she eats her meal, you will give her tastier food, so it won't give her much incentive to eat more of her own food because she knows more is coming after anyway.

It's hard to do and we all do it, but it could possibly help in the long term.

Don't know what else to suggest! If it continues and you can still see her ribs after some time, it might be a good idea to seek a behaviourist who may find some underlying issues or more constructive ways to get her to eat her meals!


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks chubby. No I haven't had a second opinion, since she has no other issues other than being thin. It is typical for young malinois to be skinny, but I jokingly call her an Ethiopian Malinois. Even good stuff like boiled chicken, those log roll type treats (natures balance or something) "puppy crack" she will only eat so much of. 

So I think not only is she picky, she just doesn't eat large amounts of thing she likes. She literally will leave a juicy fat steak, to fetch or work. I have tested this lol.

She never vomits, doesn't seem to stress at all, is a very well balanced mal considering . Though she is obsessive, as most working dogs are. Her appetite remains the same when traveling.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

You'll just have to change her name to Twiggy


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

That's fitting willowy lol!


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## georgiapeach (Mar 17, 2012)

I know this won't go over well, and I wouldn't feed it b/c it's grain (including corn) based, but OP, have you tried Pro Plan Performance? This is the ONLY thing my friend's GSDs could eat that would keep weight on and their coats shiny for their show/breeding careers - who knows why? They got very skinny and they shed horribly when fed BB or TOTW - they also didn't like it. PP Performance also comes in a generic formula at Sams Club (can't remember the name) for a very reasonable price. I've always said that every dog is different, and what works for one dog won't necessarily work for another.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

georgiapeach said:


> PP Performance also comes in a generic formula at Sams Club (can't remember the name) for a very reasonable price.


Is Exceed supposed to be a generic Pro Plan? Hmm, I'll have to compare ingredients. I used to buy Exceed occasionally (only for Moose when he was refusing to eat enough to keep his weight up, because the other 2 can't have corn) because at least it had chicken meal as the first ingredient. But they changed the formula and now it has only chicken by-product meal . But I never thought to compare it to Pro Plan.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

georgiapeach said:


> I know this won't go over well, and I wouldn't feed it b/c it's grain (including corn) based, but OP, have you tried Pro Plan Performance? This is the ONLY thing my friend's GSDs could eat that would keep weight on and their coats shiny for their show/breeding careers - who knows why? They got very skinny and they shed horribly when fed BB or TOTW - they also didn't like it. PP Performance also comes in a generic formula at Sams Club (can't remember the name) for a very reasonable price. I've always said that every dog is different, and what works for one dog won't necessarily work for another.


I have not tried that one. She actually tolerated corn based food. I just don't like the idea. I agree what works for some doesn't for others.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

Bil jac is corn based, and she likes it, but just for a little while, then she tires of it. I don't mind rotating feeds, I just wish she would enjoy eating. Lol, then again, I am also dealing with two overweight dogs, so I better enjoy this while it lasts!


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