# help me stop my dog from eating tissue paper.



## Jack_Shepherd (May 20, 2009)

I have a 9 month old Lab/Shepherd who won’t stop eating tissue paper/toilet paper/paper towels. We keep our main trash can under the sink but the bathroom and bed room trash cans we keep on the floor. 90% of the time we keep the doors closed because we know he'll come running out with some if we don't. I'm really scared because when we clean the house some of the paper towels have chemicals like pledge, glass cleaner, and 409 on them. I turn around for a second and he's chomping down on them. I grab it from his mouth and say NO, give him a toy and say good boy! and throw the paper towel out. I figure after awhile of doing this he would be like.. OK this = sad, toy = YAY! Nope he will grab tissue paper and eat it. I'm thinking about getting a zap collar that vibrates when he miss behaves. Any thoughts or ideas?. Thanks!


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

Keep the doors closed all th etime, and watch the puppy more.


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## Jack_Shepherd (May 20, 2009)

right, but I know that and thats not helpful. I need new ideas to try or tricks people have used etc.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

Try teaching the leave it command. This is primarily an issue of prevention though. It is helpful if you keep the doors closed 100%. My bathroom door is NEVER open when the puppy is out of the crate. We don't have a problem with her stealing the TP anymore.


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## Jack_Shepherd (May 20, 2009)

Yea we use the drop it command and he normaly does after a few times, but some times he'll try to get you to chase him. I we try to keep the doors closed for the most part, but it's tuff to remember every time and I see it as a failure on my part that I have to do that. I should be able to teach him not to go in there and take TP. He's a very smart dog, so it's something on my part that im not doing.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

Drop it is not Leave it. 

The failure is in assuming a 9 month old dog is smart enough to remember not to do something when no one is there to teach him otherwise. Dogs are IN the moment. If you're not watching him, he'll keep going in there. If you are watching - close the door, or use Leave It.


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## Jack_Shepherd (May 20, 2009)

anyone else?


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

Is he stealing the TP from the roll or the trash? If it's the trash, can you put the trash can up/in a cupboard. If it's from the roll, I have no ideas. I can honestly say I have never had a dog or a cat play with the TP roll. Sorry I'm not more help...

It's hard to remember to close the door all the time...trust me I know. Consistency is the key for both of you...you with closing the door and him to not eat the paper. You can both learn...I know you can!


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

If you can't remember to close the door (and everybody forgets occasionally); then I suggest removing the bedroom trash can completely or getting one that has a closing lid with a foot pedal to open. For a bathroom trash can, either a foot pedal opener or keeping it under the sink (if you have a cabinet style sink).

Alternatives could be baby-gating the hallway or doorway that leads to the bedroom and bath area (or stairs etc however your house is laid out) or getting creative-- you could attach a spring door-closing mechanism like is common on storm doors/screen doors to that the door's default is closed. 

But if you consciously make closing the door a habit, it will stay a habit; I've heard that if you do something (or not like quitting a bad habit) for 6 weeks, then you will keep doing it without thinking. True or not, after a reasonable time, the habit gets stronger.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

Maybe teach the TP roll to mean something else.

Like lie on his spot. 

Pair the presence of TP with some command. For example, I show the tp and say the behavior I want him to do, like going to his place. Then reward.

Keep it up and eventually the tp roll can predict the next cue and he'll go on his spot. Of course, this takes time as you want to cause the connection to the tp in many ways (like on the ground, in your hand, in all the rooms, etc) and it can be challenging in the beginning.

Maybe something like that could help if the standard "leave it" doesn't work (though, it should I would think).



Shell said:


> But if you consciously make closing the door a habit, it will stay a habit; I've heard that if you do something (or not like quitting a bad habit) for 6 weeks, then you will keep doing it without thinking. True or not, after a reasonable time, the habit gets stronger.


6 weeks?

Wow, I heard 21 times - I love the habit theories


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## Jack_Shepherd (May 20, 2009)

Good ideas guys thanks! I didn't even think of a baby gate. has anyone tried the bitter spray? I was thinking about giving that a shot as well.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

It would seem to me that you'd have to spray bitter apple on every piece of trash that went into the can. Surely that's way more trouble than just keeping the door closed!

For the nine? ten? years of my last dog's life, we kept the kitchen trash can on top of the clothes dryer in the kitchen. That's what kind of dog trainer I am


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

jesirose said:


> Keep the doors closed all th etime, and watch the puppy more.





Jack_Shepherd said:


> right, but I know that and thats not helpful. I need new ideas to try or tricks people have used etc.



How is it not helpful? If you keep the doors closed the puppy can't get to them....problem solved.


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## Labsnothers (Oct 10, 2009)

With some of our more difficult puppies, we have used mousetraps. Set it on the floor in front of the trash can. One snap is enough to keep some dogs away for good. Others are smart enough to defeat them.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

What the hell.


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## lizziedog1 (Oct 21, 2009)

> How is it not helpful? If you keep the doors closed the puppy can't get to them....problem solved.


His dog might be able to operate door knobs.


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

lizziedog1 said:


> His dog might be able to operate door knobs.


Then he should say so. 

But I doubt it's the case.


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## Cracker (May 25, 2009)

I don't think the op is getting what is being said here...THEORETICALLY certainly you can teach your dog to NOT eat paper, but the problem here is twofold:
1/not enough management from the owner (keeping doors closed, making sure any chemically treated paper products are in a HIDDEN garbage can or taken out of the house when used) and not enough supervision.
2/an adolescent dog who finds paper to be SELF REWARDING. Self rewarding behaviours respond better to extinction (see management) combined with training. I certainly would be hesitant to use an ecollar for this as there is risk he may misconstrue what the stim is for..possibly resulting in a dog that won't go in the bathroom or bedroom at all..timing is so very important in using training of any kind and if you find that management is too hard I really can't see you using an ecollar in the proper way either. There are few quick fixes in dog training, especially in innate behaviours like garbage stealing.

Keep working on the drop and the leave it in your regular training sessions so the dog has a good reinforcement history (learning) for those moments when you really need it. You need to set the base before expecting a good response under distraction.

Manage your garbage so that things are not tempting for him...he's been intermittently self-rewarded for taking the paper things so this makes the behaviour stronger.


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## Jack_Shepherd (May 20, 2009)

emily445455 said:


> How is it not helpful? If you keep the doors closed the puppy can't get to them....problem solved.


Im not trying to train myself, im trying to train my dog. At sometime and some point we are going to leave the door open or a friend is going to leave the door open, this is not a solution to the problem this is a work around. I want to be able to train my dog to not go though the trash.



lizziedog1 said:


> His dog might be able to operate door knobs.


Not yet, but he's starting to figure it out... they are the long handles you push down to open.



Cracker said:


> I don't think the op is getting what is being said here...THEORETICALLY certainly you can teach your dog to NOT eat paper, but the problem here is twofold:
> 1/not enough management from the owner (keeping doors closed, making sure any chemically treated paper products are in a HIDDEN garbage can or taken out of the house when used) and not enough supervision.
> 2/an adolescent dog who finds paper to be SELF REWARDING. Self rewarding behaviours respond better to extinction (see management) combined with training. I certainly would be hesitant to use an ecollar for this as there is risk he may misconstrue what the stim is for..possibly resulting in a dog that won't go in the bathroom or bedroom at all..timing is so very important in using training of any kind and if you find that management is too hard I really can't see you using an ecollar in the proper way either. There are few quick fixes in dog training, especially in innate behaviours like garbage stealing.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info, this was helpful! We live in a small apt so it's one second he's chewing his bone and the next kathy (my girl friend) leaves the door open and he running out chomping away. We are trying really hard to keep the doors closed, but like I said thats just a work around a larger problem. We try to leave him out as much as possible when we are home because he is crated during the day while we work. I don't want to have to crate him everytime we start making dinner or watch tv etc. I was thinking about bringing a trash can out and everytime he walks up to in and sticks his head in tell him no, and when walks away give him a treat, or something along those lines. I also make sure not to punish him when he drops the TP when I ask.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

If your three-year-old puts her hand on the hot handle of a pot on a stove burner, you absolutely tell her not to touch the pot...but you also stop putting the pots on the front burners of the stove where your three-year-old can get to them, because you aren't going to watch her every second and she might forget what you thought you taught her.

You can train a dog to stay out of the trashcan, but one of the most integral parts of that training is going to be your presence. You will need to keep an eagle eye on the dog so that you can interrupt and correct the bad behavior, then redirect the dog to a positive one. It seems to me that you are not able to keep that kind of an eye on the dog, hence the reason it is able to sneak off and steal trash.

There's no shame in getting trashcans with lids or keeping the bathroom door shut or putting the hazardous waste in a different room or whatever. It isn't a "work around," it's a solution.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

You hit the nail on the head Fille. 

When I had puppies it was my fault if they ate my shoes if I left them out after they chewed on them once. I had a dog who would get in the bathroom trash...I bought a trashcan with a swing-lid on it...worked most of the time.

The trash can solution only works if the dog/cat isn't pulling the TP off the roll. If that's the case, closing the door is the only thing that will work.


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## Jack_Shepherd (May 20, 2009)

FilleBelle said:


> If your three-year-old puts her hand on the hot handle of a pot on a stove burner, you absolutely tell her not to touch the pot...but you also stop putting the pots on the front burners of the stove where your three-year-old can get to them, because you aren't going to watch her every second and she might forget what you thought you taught her.
> 
> You can train a dog to stay out of the trashcan, but one of the most integral parts of that training is going to be your presence. You will need to keep an eagle eye on the dog so that you can interrupt and correct the bad behavior, then redirect the dog to a positive one. It seems to me that you are not able to keep that kind of an eye on the dog, hence the reason it is able to sneak off and steal trash.
> 
> There's no shame in getting trashcans with lids or keeping the bathroom door shut or putting the hazardous waste in a different room or whatever. It isn't a "work around," it's a solution.


If your three-year-old puts her hand on the hot handle of a pot on a stove burner, you absolutely tell her not to touch the pot...but you also stop putting the pots on the front burners of the stove where your three-year-old can get to them, because you aren't going to watch her every second and she might forget what you thought you taught her.

Yes and no. If you keep something a seceret/mistory from a child they will try harder to find out why. I know I did . I see that as the same with my dog, if I keep the doors closed, ok that works 90% of the time but once it's left open he's going to want to go in there and find out why whats in here.

You can train a dog to stay out of the trashcan, but one of the most integral parts of that training is going to be your presence. You will need to keep an eagle eye on the dog so that you can interrupt and correct the bad behavior, then redirect the dog to a positive one. It seems to me that you are not able to keep that kind of an eye on the dog, hence the reason it is able to sneak off and steal trash.

This is were I am going wrong, I need to start catching him in the act so he learns to stay out of the bathroom/trash can. I need to keep a better eye on him. 

There's no shame in getting trashcans with lids or keeping the bathroom door shut or putting the hazardous waste in a different room or whatever. It isn't a "work around," it's a solution.

Trash can with lids are a solution yes, the doors are a work around because like I said at some point someone will leave the door open and he will see his opertunity.  OM NOM NOM.


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

At least part of training a puppy is also training the humans that live with said puppy. 9 month olds can be terrors. I know, I have one...9 months, 126lbs. If given a chance, he will shred any paper he can get his mouth on...its far from limited to TP! Books, paper towel, notes from the kids' school, homework (yes my kids really CAN say "the dog ate my homework). 

The way we get around it is watch him if he's loose in the house (which is most of the time). Ive also taught LEAVE IT, DROP IT, and OUT. If I see Buster going for an item he shouldnt have, he hears LEAVE IT. The MOMENT he turns away, he's praised. If I stupidly leave him unsupervised long enough to get something he hears DROP IT. The moment he spits it out, he's praised (we've also done a lot of "trade"..exchange what he has for something of higher value). He doesnt always have to be in the same room Im in. If I enter a room I dont want him in, he hears OUT and I expect him to turn his butt around and leave the room. Again, the moment he's out, he's praised.


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## bobt (Mar 27, 2009)

Cesar Milan had an episode on exactly this problem. If I remember correctly he put the tissues on the floor and guarded them. Then he offered the dog some tasty treats, may have been chicken. When he was done, the dog didn't even care about the tissues on the floor. Cesar put a bunch of them on the floor. I'm working on a similar problem with Rawhide Agression and mine doesn't put such a high level of importance on the rawhides anymore.

As for the apple bitter, the only one it bothers is me. The mist gets into my beard and I taste for days. Yes, I wash the beard every day but the stuff is tuff. My doggie just licks it off. She doesn't like it but licks it off all the same. I sprayed it on some carpet and her leash and she licked it off. She had her surgery and we sprayed it on the bandage, off came the bandage and she even ate the whole thing. Luckily it came up during the night or we would have been making an emergency call to the vet. After 12 hours it wasn't digested a bit and came out in one piece just as she swallowed it.


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

Jack_Shepherd said:


> Im not trying to train myself, im trying to train my dog. At sometime and some point we are going to leave the door open or a friend is going to leave the door open, this is not a solution to the problem this is a work around. I want to be able to train my dog to not go though the trash.


When the dog gets older, it will be less and less interested in getting things out of the trash. But for right now, it will save you a lot of headaches and time if you keep the door shut.

When the door is left open, then use that time to correct....but when the dog is a pup...the easiest thing and safest thing is to puppy proof the house.


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## Kay Weber (Oct 21, 2009)

Can you move the trash cans into the room were you are - say the living room were you can supervise and teach him not to get in the trash can? Teach him trash cans are off limits... with you there to supervise and the cans being out with easy access - correct him whenever he approaches a can. Give him a toy -- or something else to do.

You will have to pay attention and correct him each and every time until he "gets it" otherwise he'll just learn to be sneaky. When you aren't able to watch him closely, put them up. But every time you can, bring them all out and train him to leave them alone.


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## EarthMonkey (Nov 14, 2009)

We just stuck the trash can up on a tall box that is in the room. That way the puppy can't reach it. If he gets tall enough that he can reach it we will probably use the cabinet to put the trash can in.


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## Zen (Nov 11, 2009)

Jack_Shepherd said:


> Im not trying to train myself, im trying to train my dog.


Sorry, but I see this comment as half of your problem. If you can't be arsed to be a responsible owner, the training will only be half assed anyway. Hell, my 9 year old autistic son learned to close the bathroom door in 2 weeks to keep our puppy out; are you telling me a grown man and woman have that much of an issue?


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## dawnlee (Jul 9, 2010)

Jack_Shepherd said:


> Good ideas guys thanks! I didn't even think of a baby gate. has anyone tried the bitter spray? I was thinking about giving that a shot as well.


I have two shelties and a retriever mix. My shelties like to shred toilet paper and paper towels. My retriever mix will actually eat it. I often forget to shut the bathroom door so my retriever mix will go into the trash and eat everything "tissue." I have tried bitter apple on tissue but as soon as it dries, they go to town. I am also at a loss too as to what to do to stop this behavior.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

I think there are just some things that it's unrealistic to rely on training to prevent. This is a self-rewarding behavior... every time he gets into the tissues he rewards himself. If you are unwilling to use management as a tool, then you are allowing him to perform and reward himself for a behavior you don't want to see, which makes no sense at all. I had a friend who would get really mad at her dog for getting into bags of garbage that she left hanging from the back door doorknob (until she got around to taking it outside). To me, why not just NOT leave the garbage hanging there? That's an awful lot to ask of a dog IMO. So this is one of the rare situations where I think you just have to admit defeat and become the tissue police. Do whatever it takes to keep him away from the tissues.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

While I agree with using management, why not do both management and training?

Why not teach the dog that if the door is open, you sit and wait until cued to go through it. I taught it to Wally (for different reasons) and I'm no master trainer. Seems like while managing the problem, making door open -> cue sit and wait behavior would be a workable solution.

Heck, use tissue on the ground as a cue to something just like a dumbbell on the ground stimulates Wally to go get it. 

I think it can be done - and of course manage the issue until it is. I don't know I guess I see management as an opportunity to teach as well as preventing a problem.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

KBLover said:


> While I agree with using management, why not do both?


 
I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it that way, but this not the hill I personally want to die on or where I want to focus my training time and energy. Garbage in the toddler-locked cabinet gets me what I want.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

sassafras said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it that way, but this not the hill I personally want to die on or where I want to focus my training time and energy. Garbage in the toddler-locked cabinet gets me what I want.


Oh absolutely - if he's not getting it (and until he does) I agree - and yeah, some battles might not be winnable - I'm just saying, I don't like give up without fighting and trying to attack from multiple fronts.


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