# Kameha's scuffle at dog park



## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

I already know he needs more training in social skills. I am so stupid and feel like such a failure about teaching him this. He is great on a leash but off leash he picks out a dog to challenge. I don't know where this comes from since I socialized him a lot as a pup. Do you think that what could have effected his social skills was when he was a pup I would always take him to my moms cuz they have 3 dogs 2 the same age and those dogs would always gang up on kameha. He seemed to always want to go back though so I would take him but my husband didn't want me too. he said it would affect kameha's development but I didn't believe him. Anywhoo..2 years later we're at the dog park today there is a small JRT type and medium dog. Kameha got on fine with the small dog to my surprise. But the owners were playing catch with the other dog and everytime the dog had the ball kameha would look intense and try to mount or take the ball. well the 2nd mount drew the line and the dog snapped back hard. So they were fighting and we were trying to pull them apart. We did and i made kameha laydown and stay. They took there dog and left. We both apologized. there dog had a small cut on his eye. Kameha has a small deep gash on his cheek that i didn't see til later. I hate that he isn't more relaxed and that he doesn't know how to play with every dog. I hate that I didn't take care of the problem before it became a problem.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Dont be too harsh on yourself LMH, after all dogs will be dogs and all the socialisation in the world cant stop dogs doing things which come natural to them eg;Mounting(my neutered male does it very seldomly and Aslan because his balls are still dangling.lol) also i realise there are so many dogs that are so docile and friendly with everything but for everyone of them theres ten that are not so docile.Just look at it like this Kams a nice well looked after dog and he pissed the dog off by mounting him/her and the dog reacted,however neither dog is a dangerous trained to kill and attack pooch otherwise u'd have more than grazes and small cuts?Still dont like seeing my buddy Kameha with that cut though.lol


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

I hate it when that happens. Even the most socialized dog can all of a sudden meet up with another dog that it does not get along with. Is there a good trainer/behaviorist in your area that can work with you and your dog teaching socialization skills? Doesn't look like Kameha is too bad off. Luckily it was ended quickly. I am happy that neither dog was hurt to bad. Give Kameha a smooch on his good cheek for me.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks P man.You're right not all dogs are going to be docile. Kameha so not a fighter either, I think he would get his butt kicked if the other dog really wanted to. The owners got scared cuz they saw their dog hanging on to kameha's lip ,i didn't see that thank god, that would have really scared me. As soon as i start working again I'm going to start with behavior classes. My poor baby K's face is ruined! Now he can't be in movies like I wanted him to be-LOL



Inga said:


> I hate it when that happens. Even the most socialized dog can all of a sudden meet up with another dog that it does not get along with. Is there a good trainer/behaviorist in your area that can work with you and your dog teaching socialization skills? Doesn't look like Kameha is too bad off. Luckily it was ended quickly. I am happy that neither dog was hurt to bad. Give Kameha a smooch on his good cheek for me.


thanks Inga. I think I found one in my area. I am just waiting for some moola to come in. Look at the website-does it look like he's a bunch of hype or legit?
I will give him a big smooch for ya
http://www.dominantdogs.com/


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Seems like a cesar wanabe to me,uses his name enough times on the site.lol,check out his prices if they are competative give him a try,but personally i think your worrying too much its always like that after a scrap(especially when Kameha could kill a dog if he really wanted to but he's not like that) Theres been a few times that little s*** Blake has embarrased me with his stupidness but Aslans as cool as ice(although the look he gave a westie that tried it on once did worry me just a lickel.lol)Try a good book first LMH ask some of the more experienced members which one would be suitable for your situation,it'll save u plenty dollar.lol


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## Annamarie (Oct 14, 2007)

i know that dogs don't always get along with other dogs well, but please do not take your dog to a dog park until you are sure that your dog knows how to socialize. i would get this dog to a trainer to help with socialization and only let your dog interact with dogs when you can control the situation. at a dog park you don't know the owners or dogs there and there can be some fights waiting to happen which will further set this dog back.


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## Inga (Jun 16, 2007)

LMH, You might be further ahead asking your vet for references or looking into a kennel club in your area or nearby for references. I can't say that the website looks good. I would be a little leery of that. I know what you mean about waiting for moola. I will keep you in mind when I win some lottery or something. LOL Oh, I guess I would have to buy a ticket.


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## Sugar Daddy Otis (Jan 9, 2008)

Awwwww...my baby boy...glad he is okay!! My other Mastiff was just like Kameha-drove me NUTZO!! Glasd things weren't worse for the "little guy" (((HUGS))) to you 'cause I know you are a great mommy to him!!


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Sugar Daddy Otis said:


> Awwwww...my baby boy...glad he is okay!! My other Mastiff was just like Kameha-drove me NUTZO!! Glasd things weren't worse for the "little guy" (((HUGS))) to you 'cause I know you are a great mommy to him!!


I felt like a dumb mommie when it happened. So did your other mastiff ever change or was that just his personality?

I have been trying to look for someone to work with me one on one and It's hard to find someone good. Other one on one's i've had just didn't seem like it would be worth all the money. they didn't seem to do anything different than what I'm already doing. I would like Cesar Milan to take him to his pack so he can learn socialization-haha. The guy at the local pet store has training classes. I should ask him how the trainer is.Petsmart has a behaviorist too that will go to your house. Last time we went to the dog park was about 3 weeks ago. I kept him on the leash most of the time cuz there were a lot of dogs and everything went smoothly. I'll have to keep him on the leash so he doesn't reinforce that bad behavior.


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## Sugar Daddy Otis (Jan 9, 2008)

LMH said:


> So did your other mastiff ever change or was that just his personality?QUOTE]
> 
> Well, I rescued him when he was 3-so he was already that way. We battled for 7 years with it until he passed away this past August. We went to a behaviorist and all of that, but decided he was going to stay this way. we figure her must have had no socialization when he was growing up or something happened to make him this way. I felt like a bad mommy, too...but sometimes they are the way they are no matter what we mommies do- just like children don't always do what their parents want them to, ya know??
> I just hope Otis stays the way he is and dosen't turn in to a "predator"


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## Dogsareme (Mar 1, 2007)

It does not sound like lack of socailization skills to me in this scenario. However I would not allow him to mount and correct that behavior whenever it happens. 

It sounds like it was a combination of things that set the dogs off. First the other dog was playing fetch and if he/she is anything like my dog, she HATES other dogs chasing or trying to take her ball and does get aggressive to them. I have seen this in many dogs. My dog is no longer allowed to go to areas with alot of dogs with a ball anymore and that stops the behavior right there. Second your dog trying to mount him/her during this also set the dog off on top of him trying to get the ball. 

If you think it is due to undersocailization what other cirumstances have scuffles started from? And yes dogs do learn bad behaviors and habits from other dogs unfortunatly.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

1st, after 12 trips to Hawaii and changing kennel name to Aloha, we are a tad Hawaii/Maui crazy. Absolutely love your dog's name. Just one little tidbit to add to the fetch routine, some dog's do have a higher prey drive that can cause them to get in trouble. Whatever it is, don't panic just be careful in dog park. Keep up whatever obedience routines you are doing to keep your dog sharp.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Dogsareme said:


> It does not sound like lack of socailization skills to me in this scenario. However I would not allow him to mount and correct that behavior whenever it happens.
> 
> It sounds like it was a combination of things that set the dogs off. First the other dog was playing fetch and if he/she is anything like my dog, she HATES other dogs chasing or trying to take her ball and does get aggressive to them. I have seen this in many dogs. My dog is no longer allowed to go to areas with alot of dogs with a ball anymore and that stops the behavior right there. Second your dog trying to mount him/her during this also set the dog off on top of him trying to get the ball.
> 
> If you think it is due to undersocailization what other cirumstances have scuffles started from? And yes dogs do learn bad behaviors and habits from other dogs unfortunatly.


Yeah, i hate when owners play fetch at the dog park. Not very smart. but honestly Kameha could only play nice for about 20 min. then he must control and dominate which ever dog he wants to pick on. But what's funny is he has been put in place by wienner dogs and older dogs that give him a good warning growl. He will stay away. But some dogs he just wants to play rough with. Sometimes a dog he's playing with will stand over him and he will get up fast and try to bring that dog down. He never bites down on them but he mouths them. I guess it would'nt be a prob if I didn't like dog parks but I love going to dog parks. 



wvasko said:


> 1st, after 12 trips to Hawaii and changing kennel name to Aloha, we are a tad Hawaii/Maui crazy. Absolutely love your dog's name. Just one little tidbit to add to the fetch routine, some dog's do have a higher prey drive that can cause them to get in trouble. Whatever it is, don't panic just be careful in dog park. Keep up whatever obedience routines you are doing to keep your dog sharp.


I love HI. names too. I love Hi. I lived there for 2 yrs and I miss it. I think I will keep him on a leash when dogs are playing catch or there is too many dogs there.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

LMH said:


> Yeah, i hate when owners play fetch at the dog park. Not very smart. but honestly Kameha could only play nice for about 20 min. then he must control and dominate which ever dog he wants to pick on. But what's funny is he has been put in place by wienner dogs and older dogs that give him a good warning growl. He will stay away. But some dogs he just wants to play rough with. Sometimes a dog he's playing with will stand over him and he will get up fast and try to bring that dog down. He never bites down on them but he mouths them. I guess it would'nt be a prob if I didn't like dog parks but I love going to dog parks.
> 
> 
> I love HI. names too. I love Hi. I lived there for 2 yrs and I miss it. I think I will keep him on a leash when dogs are playing catch or there is too many dogs there.


Excellent, That is a great way to keep the King safe for now. My opinion only. I and my wife are very, very, very jealous of anybody living in Hi for 2 years.
Mahalo for reply and Aloha


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I'll be honest, I would be FURIOUS at your behavior if you were at my local dog park. 

THe dog park belongs to everyone. If my dog does not guard the ball, there is NO REASON I shouldn't be able to play fetch with him there. If he DOES guard the ball- or anything, really, he's either not trained enough- or not suitable for- the dog park. 

Mal is a fairly soft, reasonably submissive dog. I do not allow other dogs to dominate him at the park. It's not fair to him, he'll put up with it, and we're NOT there to make him miserable. (It particularly annoys me when I've moved to the far side of the park multiple times, started a new game of ball or tug, and the offending dog FOLLOWS US, with the other ignoring it, blathering away on the far side of the park.) 

If your dog needs to be on a leash, he's not ready for an off-leash park. Putting him on leash when dogs are doing things that annoy him is a GREAT way to increase his frustration level, and raise the possibility of him redirecting onto another dog. 

There's nothing wrong with NOT being a dog park dog. A lot of perfectly nice dogs AREN'T. It's chaotic, it's rowdy, and it's just not right for everyone. Indy (the corgi in my sig) doesn't go to dog parks because he does the 'police man' thing that Kameha does- 'hey you, stop running so fast! You! No shoving! NO HAVING FUN UNLESS I SAY SO." So he doesn't get to go. There's plenty of other places I can take him for on-leash walks, which frankly, he enjoys more, because he doesn't have to stress out about what the other dogs are doing. MOST of the molassar breeds are fine at dog parks as puppies but not so great once they mature- the chaos and the constantly shifting social structure really seems to offend their sense of order. ;P

While you may enjoy dog parks, that doesn't mean that Kameha does, or that his behavior is appropriate at them. If he can behave for 20 minutes? Take him for 20 minutes and then go for a walk on leash somewhere. Most dog parks are IN larger parks, so you've got the space to do that. You could even do a 20 minute play session in the park, 20 minute walk, and then another 20 minutes at the park, if he can manage that- he may just get overstimulated and forget his manners. 

Lastly, as much as you love the park, you need to consider that it's NOT your private park.If you know Kameha's behavior isn't appropriate- and it sounds to me like you understand this- it is absolutely NOT okay to keep taking him out there until you have resolved it. It's not fair to Kameha- who could end up with a bite record (because even though he got bit too, it sounds ilke he provoked this scuffle, and with a large, intimidating breed like a CC, that's always a risk you run), and it's not fair to the other dogs and owners, either. You can always go to the park to socialize without him!


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well I'd be furious if I saw you playing fetch with your dog dogstar. Because a dog park is a place for the dogs to play, not for you to play with the dog. Our dog park has a rule that no toys are allowed because some dogs have resouce guarding issues and if they see another dog playing fetch and they want the ball then it can cause a fight. If I saw people playing fetch with their dogs I'd call and complain to the people who own the dog park so that the person can either get a warning or banned from the park.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Durbkat said:


> Well I'd be furious if I saw you playing fetch with your dog dogstar. Because a dog park is a place for the dogs to play, not for you to play with the dog. Our dog park has a rule that no toys are allowed because some dogs have resouce guarding issues and if they see another dog playing fetch and they want the ball then it can cause a fight. If I saw people playing fetch with their dogs I'd call and complain to the people who own the dog park so that the person can either get a warning or banned from the park.


I agree. There have been the more savvy dog owners there that get so annoyed when people bring out the ball and expect no other dogs to follow. 



Dogstar said:


> I'll be honest, I would be FURIOUS at your behavior if you were at my local dog park.


Them sound like fightin words to me.
You would be furious that I grabbed my dog and apologized. What should have my behavior been? Next time I'll just walk away and not say anthying. That statement you made is a little bold for my taste.


THe dog park belongs to everyone. If my dog does not guard the ball, there is NO REASON I shouldn't be able to play fetch with him there. If he DOES guard the ball- or anything, really, he's either not trained enough- or not suitable for- the dog park. 

Mal is a fairly soft, reasonably submissive dog. I do not allow other dogs to dominate him at the park. It's not fair to him, he'll put up with it, and we're NOT there to make him miserable. (It particularly annoys me when I've moved to the far side of the park multiple times, started a new game of ball or tug, and the offending dog FOLLOWS US, with the other ignoring it, blathering away on the far side of the park.) 

If your dog needs to be on a leash, he's not ready for an off-leash park. Putting him on leash when dogs are doing things that annoy him is a GREAT way to increase his frustration level, and raise the possibility of him redirecting onto another dog.![/QUOTE]
I disagree, there are a few people who bring their dog to the dog park on a leash for the socialization. And my dog acts totally fine on a leash and loves smelling the other dogs, and having them chase him. 

While you may enjoy dog parks, that doesn't mean that Kameha does, or that his behavior is appropriate at them. If he can behave for 20 minutes? Take him for 20 minutes and then go for a walk on leash somewhere. Most dog parks are IN larger parks, so you've got the space to do that. You could even do a 20 minute play session in the park, 20 minute walk, and then another 20 minutes at the park, if he can manage that- he may just get overstimulated and forget his manners. ![/QUOTE]
those are good suggestions-thanks. 

Lastly, as much as you love the park, you need to consider that it's NOT your private park.If you know Kameha's behavior isn't appropriate- and it sounds to me like you understand this- it is absolutely NOT okay to keep taking him out there until you have resolved it. It's not fair to Kameha- who could end up with a bite record (because even though he got bit too, it sounds ilke he provoked this scuffle, and with a large, intimidating breed like a CC, that's always a risk you run), and it's not fair to the other dogs and owners, either. You can always go to the park to socialize without him![/QUOTE]
I know it's not a private park that's why I think it is not fair when owners come to the DP and want to play just with their dog. You go there for the dogs to interact, not for you to play fetch or tug with your dog. Save that for your own yard or house. And Dog's hump Kam's head all the time and have even pee'd on his head to mark him and he never reacts like this dog did. not that it is the other dogs fault. You just never know how dogs are going to react to certain things.


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## beagler (Jan 3, 2008)

I didn't read all the posts but you need to keep that cut clean. Use a warm rag to clean it out and then put neosporin (or the cheap stuff) in there. If you don't it will probably get infected pretty quick.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

I tell you the one thing that makes me "FURIOUS" is when theres that one person in a dog park playing ball or fetch with their pooch and they have that "dont let your dog come near mine look" theres a simple way of making sure that doesnt happen .....dont go to the dog park because its bound to occur.Dogstar i think your response to Kamehas unfortunate inccident are way over the top to say the least.


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## Dogsareme (Mar 1, 2007)

Dogstar... I have to agree with the previous posts about fetch at the park. 

However if your dog is possessive with his toys to another dog, that is not from lack of training. Teaching another dog not to resource guard their toys with strange dogs is a very different matter then teaching your dog not to resource gaurd with people and dogs in the same home.

Lets put it this way - You bring a book to your favorite coffee shop and sit down and start reading, someone comes up to you that you have never met and sits down to chat with you. You give the person hints that you just want to be left alone but they are still trying to chat with. Then suddenly the other person decided to take your book so you will chat with them! You would get mad too! No one has the right to snatch and steal your stuff out of your hands!!! 

This is how dogs feel when they have their most favorite toy at the dog part and another bully comes up to try and take it! Its not due to lack of training. Yes other dogs are more submissive and will allow this to happen, just as some people would allow someone else to annoy them and take there stuff without doing anything about it.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Yeah, but my point is, if your park allows toys? Your dog NEEDS to be trained to that point- and you should be ready and prepared to tell them to LEAVE IT if need be.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Right, but wouldn't you agree that a dog park is a place for dogs to play with each other and not for the owner to play with it? Isn't that what a yard is for or going when no one else is there?


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

beagler said:


> I didn't read all the posts but you need to keep that cut clean. Use a warm rag to clean it out and then put neosporin (or the cheap stuff) in there. If you don't it will probably get infected pretty quick.


Thanks for the tip. I put peroxide to clean it. but I didn't know if I should keep cleaning it or if i should let it dry up to heal. Now I noticed a cut under his chin as well. I will keep an eye on both of them. 



Mr Pooch said:


> I tell you the one thing that makes me "FURIOUS" is when theres that one person in a dog park playing ball or fetch with their pooch and they have that "dont let your dog come near mine look" theres a simple way of making sure that doesnt happen .....dont go to the dog park because its bound to occur.Dogstar i think your response to Kamehas unfortunate inccident are way over the top to say the least.


One time a fight almost broke out with the owners cuz the man was yelling at the dogs for running after HIS ball! Haha-what nerve, he was at a dog park.



Dogsareme said:


> Dogstar... I have to agree with the previous posts about fetch at the park.
> 
> However if your dog is possessive with his toys to another dog, that is not from lack of training. Teaching another dog not to resource guard their toys with strange dogs is a very different matter then teaching your dog not to resource gaurd with people and dogs in the same home.
> 
> ...


That makes sense.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Durbkat my sentiments exactly,you cant expect dogs(unless they are sedated) not to want to go and play with another dogs toys/ball,when i want to do that i play in my garden.Dogstar i expect your dog is extremly well behaved and disiplined but theres millions of dog owners everywhere and i think it would be easier to "pick out" dogs that shouldnt be allowed to be there due to aggressive behavior if toys etc were not in the picture.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

All the dog parks i've been to, I don't think post whether toys are allowed. I think it's assumed that it's just common sense that you shouldn't bring balls and toys to the dog park.


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## Spitzy (Oct 13, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> Right, but wouldn't you agree that a dog park is a place for dogs to play with each other and not for the owner to play with it? Isn't that what a yard is for or going when no one else is there?


I don’t agree with this at all. I’d say that a dog park is a safe and legal place for dogs to be allowed off leash.

I do tend to think this is an issue with regional variation in expectations, however. Where I am located, I think that a good majority of the people and dogs at the park do not have their own yards to play fetch in. In my area, all the parks I’ve been to have been liberally stocked with tennis balls. Therefore it is a bit odd for me to see this negative reaction towards people who play fetch in dog parks.

I do understand that it is a situation that can be problematic for some dogs. And I agree that it is a bit silly for people to get upset if their dog is getting distracted by the other dogs present instead of playing fetch with them.

Overall, I think I agree with Dogstar’s first post. And I say this as an owner of a dog who never plays fetch. My dog, in fact, is the one who will often run after and bark at the dog playing fetch. I believe it is up to me to make sure that _my_ dog’s behavior is okay, and that her attention isn’t too intimidating for the fetching dog. If it appears to be, then I will call my dog away and redirect her attention somewhere else. If I didn’t feel confident that I could call her away, I wouldn’t take her to the dog park.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

But a person should be able to take their resource guarding dog to a park without having to teach it a recall because someone brought a toy to play with their dog instead of letting it play with other dogs. If you don't have a yard to play fetch with a dog then do it inside, thats what I do with my dog. He hasn't been to a dog park yet but he is fine with playing fetch inside and running around outside.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

It must be different at other dog parks. Here I know people get mad when people play fetch and bring toys. But around here most people have yards so dog parks are for dogs to interact with each other and not meant for the sole purpose of exercise with the owner. I am not defending my dogs actions.I'm just trying to understand it. I wouldn't take him there if I thought he would bite or attack another dog. He has never bit down on another dog. He keeps his mouth open which is how that other dog got a nick on his eye,because he bumped his head against his tooth. At a dog park I think there is some basic dog behavior you should be ready for. It's like taking your kids to the playground and excpecting all the kids to be little angels. That's not going to happen. I take mine there cuz I know he likes other dogs, he just has problems I need to work on with him , but like i said, he has never aggresivley attacked or bit down on another dog. He has been bit in the face by many dogs and even got little cuts but since they were not intimidating dogs I'm expected to brush it off. And kameha never relates, he just turns his head.And he actually is an angel on the leash so I will keep him on one.


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## tcasby (Apr 30, 2007)

My park also has dozens of tennis balls in various states of decay laying around.

It is a very crowded urban park. Dirty, smelly, often chaotic, with as many as 50 dogs in the single acre during peak periods, but well policed by the regulars. 
Despite the pleas and shouts of the owners, there's still lots o humpin and other silliness going on. Frequent minor squabbles, occasional fights that result in minor wounds, and very rare (maybe a dozen in 5 years) serious fights.

There are 2 other parks within twenty minutes. Both are clean, have nice grass (we have rotten wood chips, mud, and poop). One even has agility equipment. What they don't have is dogs.


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

Yeow, this thread has gotten heated...I'm going to add a few words on dog parks from my own innumerable experiences (remember, I have a high energy golden retriever puppy in a city and have NO yard).

On fetch: toys and fetch are perfectly acceptable at our parks, as there are no yards for most people in Boston...in general, we haven't seen problems with toys. In fact, that's what usually gets the dogs to chase each other...but perhaps we just have exceptionally well socialized dogs around here because everyone relies on dog parks. You have to understand though that some people might not have a big yard or something and that their dog just loves to play fetch and not play with other dogs. Two ways to handle this situation: 1. Keep your dog away from a dog playing fetch, especially if that dog has gone off to one side of the park and 2. If the park is getting crowded, politely ask the owner if they could put the ball away for awhile, as you know that your dog as well as many others might not react well to toys in the park. We always put Zoe's favorite (squeaky green cuz) ball away when there are other dogs there (yes, we go to the dog park so much that we are often the only ones there) because that is a very highly desired toy and we don't want to start anything over it. However, if the other dog in the park is not paying any attention to Zoe or running around, we'll start playing fetch again.

On the scuffle: I think you should have left the park as well after the incident. It's just for the best. Zoe has gotten a bit into a couple of scuffles, but always where she was just dominated completely and we had to try to get the other dog to get off of her long enough that she could at least get back to her feet--so we've never left because of that (well we did once, but that was when a pack of huskies kept cornering her...and we left for her safety). But it's important, especially with a big dog like a Cane Corso, that you leave immediately if your dog has been involved in a scuffle...it is only responsible.

And finally, I agree that there is no reason your dog needs to go to the dog park, especially if you have a yard. A lot of dogs just don't like it all that much. You could also go on off hours or try to meet up with people whose dogs you know yours gets along with...that way you're less likely to have a scuffle. I know it sounds terrible, but trust me, when you walk in with a cane corso, you need to prove to the other owners there that your dog can behave well enough to be there, as I am sure your dog makes some other dogs and humans nervous. I'm sorry to say this, and I don't agree that a cane corso should have to prove himself more than a lab or golden or chihuahua...but a lot of people do feel that way.

If you're worried about dog aggression being potentially violent or uncontrollable, I would seek out a behaviorist. But I think it would be a waste of money to call in a behaviorist to get your dog to do well at a dog park...because as others have said, not all dogs like the dog park or do well there.

Just my $.02...from someone who has logged a LOT of hours at dog parks in the last 8 months..


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

tcasby, I saw your post before you edited it. For people without a yard, as I stated, should play fetch inside their house. If there dog is to large and the house is to small for them to play fetch inside then maybe they shouldn't get such a large dog.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Durb, I'm sory, but that's just DUMB. 

Why should MY dog not be allowed to play fetch- he isn't interfering with anyone- when someone else can't recall their own dog? I don't particularly care if their dog steals the ball (it's a park ball, it's not ours, and Mal doesn't care), and Mal *does* play with other dogs some. If your dog has resource guarding issues, he's not ready for the dog park, period. It's not a big leap from guarding items from other dogs to guarding YOU from other dogs, after all.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

So what are the people with resource guarding dogs supposed to for exercise with their dog because somebody brought a ball to play at the park. So you wouldn't care if your dog barked/growled at the dog for stealing the ball from him?


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## FriendsOfZoe (Aug 7, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> If there dog is to large and the house is to small for them to play fetch inside then maybe they shouldn't get such a large dog.


I'd like to see you wear out a jack russell terrier with fetch inside a house...they're small dogs...

You know, if people don't bring toys to the park, then the dogs find another toy to chase each other with--a stick, a poop bag, even a milk carton that blew in from the wind...


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Well I wouldn't try to tire out a JRT with a game of fetch, I'd take him to the park so he could play with the other dogs. I don't see a problem with people playing fetch with their dog if there is no one else there, but if its crowded then it might not be a good idea.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it's a good idea to play IF no one else is there. Or if there is a dog there that doesn't care. But in my situation those owners knew their dog had a gaurding issue as well. They had to correct their dog cuz when they would try to get the ball he would growl at them. So this just shows that a lot of people don't have a 100% perfect dog. So maybe putting the dog toys away when other are around is a good idea. And yes we should take the breed into consideration. If it was two low prey dog breeds then there probably wouldn't be a problem. But we have a cane corso a pitt bull and a toy so let's just have respect for those breeds and put the toys away. My dog got a long fine with the little chi/mix cus there was no toy involved. I wish they did have a "bully"breed dog park but I have to put up with little dogs yapping in my dogs face all the time so it would be nice if at the dog park there was some understanding of garding rescource type of dogs.Durbat has a small breed that probably wouldn't make a fuss anywhere but he also understands not all dogs are the same.And my dog does LIKE the dog park so I will keep taking him there on a leash. Also, I didn't leave when it happened cuz they decided to leave first. I said I would leave or put my dog on a leash but they insisted on leaving. I am determined to make a dog park dog out of my dog! If cesar can have a pack of bully breeds that all get along then it is not impossible to do for my dog.


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## Spitzy (Oct 13, 2007)

LMH said:


> If cesar can have a pack of bully breeds that all get along then it is not impossible to do for my dog.


I’m rather worried by this reasoning. It’s an edited tv show.

Frankly, I’ve heard second hand that dogs sent to him for training have ended up killed by his pack. Now, I wouldn’t stake my life on the truth of that claim since I didn’t delve into it. But I certainly wouldn’t stake my dog’s life on it being untrue.

I think my other thoughts have been well covered and better stated by Dogstar and FriendsofZoe. 


_Edited much afterward to add: I am _EXTREMELY_ offended by being called pathetic. I respect my source, and have no reason to believe he lied to me. To be belittled in such a manner for stating my opinion and a small piece of data (which, if anything, I over-qualified) disgusts me._


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Spitzy said:


> I’m rather worried by this reasoning. It’s an edited tv show.
> 
> Frankly, I’ve heard second hand that dogs sent to him for training have ended up killed by his pack. Now, I wouldn’t stake my life on the truth of that claim since I didn’t delve into it. But I certainly wouldn’t stake my dog’s life on it being untrue.
> 
> I think my other thoughts have been well covered and better stated by Dogstar and FriendsofZoe.


Spitzy without sounding too offensive,thats "pathetic" Ceasers show is shown world wide and if "any" dogs had been killed by his pack im sure the "media" worldwide would have had a frenzy!especially in my country where they take no prisoners.So maybe you should "delve" into it a little more before posting next time.Take care,Mr pooch.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Spitzy said:


> I’m rather worried by this reasoning. It’s an edited tv show.
> 
> Frankly, I’ve heard second hand that dogs sent to him for training have ended up killed by his pack. Now, I wouldn’t stake my life on the truth of that claim since I didn’t delve into it. But I certainly wouldn’t stake my dog’s life on it being untrue.
> 
> I think my other thoughts have been well covered and better stated by Dogstar and FriendsofZoe.


I'm not talking about his t.v. show, i'm talking about the fact that he has a center of more that 30 dogs that vary from toy breeds to bully breeds.If dogs were being killed at his center i'm sure it would make headline news. Also I didn't mean I was going to try to be Cesar, i just meant it is something to aspire to, that my dog is not hopeless.I think my thoughts are well covered by Durbat and Mr.pooch and of course by me. I do see both sides of it though.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Um, actually, I'm 90% sure it's all bully breeds that are allowed to 'be a pack'. That sort of size difference would be extraordinarily dangerous.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Dogstar said:


> Um, actually, I'm 90% sure it's all bully breeds that are allowed to 'be a pack'. That sort of size difference would be extraordinarily dangerous.


Beg to differ,when you have friends you see on a regular basis with their dogs too,both your own and the friends dogs form another"social scructure" egack leader,passive,dominant etc,and the pack leader of my dogs and their friends together just so happens to be a jack russell,now my bullmastiffs head is bigger than this whole dog so i dont see where "danger" comes in to it.Dogstar unless of course you are coming to a conclusion that all Bully breeds are incapable of socializing with any dogs smaller than themselves?


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## Dogsareme (Mar 1, 2007)

Dogstar said:


> Durb, I'm sory, but that's just DUMB.
> 
> Why should MY dog not be allowed to play fetch- he isn't interfering with anyone- when someone else can't recall their own dog? I don't particularly care if their dog steals the ball (it's a park ball, it's not ours, and Mal doesn't care), and Mal *does* play with other dogs some. If your dog has resource guarding issues, he's not ready for the dog park, period. It's not a big leap from guarding items from other dogs to guarding YOU from other dogs, after all.


Did you actually train your dog not to resource guard? 

Again, teaching your dog not to resource guard from humans and family/friend dog members is different!! Going to the park and suddenly having 3 other dogs chasing YOUR ball is a whole different story. To some dogs, that ball is the best thing in the world and they will be damned is some other dog is going to swoop in and steal it!

Same as the scenario I put before....... you bring you wallet with you everywhere, someone tries to steal it, you are not going to let them!!

Again it is not a training matter when dogs resource gaurd from STRANGE dogs. It's more a trust matter. They don't know that dog, that dog is not there best friend, would you allow someone who is not a friend to borrow your car? I dont' think so. 

DIFFERENT!


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

Actually, yeah, I did teach him not to resource guard, to some extent- items that he has are his if I feel like and not his if I don't- lots of trade games as a puppy. But even my corgi- who is a pushier dog and might be more inclined to try and keep something away from another dog- will leave an item if told to and let another dog take it without even a dirty look. (I won't say he'd leave food, but any sort of toy? Yeah, pretty much.) 

Dogs aren't people. People aren't dogs. Your analogy is completely invalid.

Pooch- there's a HUGE difference between allowing dogs of difference sizes to play together with supervision and leaving them alone in a pack environment unsupervised. Bullmastiffs are great. Would I leave Lizzie unattended with a group of them? Hell no. Likelihood of something happening? fairly low. But that'd be scant comfort if she was injured or killed because *I* was negligent.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Dogstar said:


> Um, actually, I'm 90% sure it's all bully breeds that are allowed to 'be a pack'. That sort of size difference would be extraordinarily dangerous.


Umm..that's my point. He does have a mix in his pack of small and large breeds and it is possible is all i'm saying. 



Dogstar said:


> Actually, yeah, I did teach him not to resource guard, to some extent- items that he has are his if I feel like and not his if I don't- lots of trade games as a puppy. But even my corgi- who is a pushier dog and might be more inclined to try and keep something away from another dog- will leave an item if told to and let another dog take it without even a dirty look. (I won't say he'd leave food, but any sort of toy? Yeah, pretty much.)
> 
> Dogs aren't people. People aren't dogs. Your analogy is completely invalid.
> 
> Pooch- there's a HUGE difference between allowing dogs of difference sizes to play together with supervision and leaving them alone in a pack environment unsupervised. Bullmastiffs are great. Would I leave Lizzie unattended with a group of them? Hell no. Likelihood of something happening? fairly low. But that'd be scant comfort if she was injured or killed because *I* was negligent.


Nothing was said about leaving small dogs alone with big dogs. just that there can be a pack made up of this. 
And yes dogs are not people which is why there will always be an element of unpredictablity. If people are not ready for that then they should not go to the dog park. But I think the analogy was fitting since we can not go in a dogs mind we have to do the best to interpret. I will not let this one sitution keep me from socializing my dog. But of course I would not take my dog if he ever showed signs of aggression towards dogs either.
Anywhoo..I respect your opinion.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

This thread gives me a headache - mainly because I cannot *believe* some of the arguments that are actually being made.

Bottom line is, you want to go to a dog park? Then you sure as hell better have a well behaved animal. Other park goers should not have to accommodate you because you can't control your pet. Period.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Dakota Spirit said:


> This thread gives me a headache - mainly because I cannot *believe* some of the arguments that are actually being made.
> 
> Bottom line is, you want to go to a dog park? Then you sure as hell better have a well behaved animal. Other park goers should not have to accommodate you because you can't control your pet. Period.


Dakota spirit,understandable but obviously you have read the posts and it goes further than the original posting!Kameha doesnt seem like an uncontrolable lunatic to me just a dog thats just turned two and happens to be of a breed "yes" that could potentially do alot of damage.I cant BELIEVE some of the things said also and im a tad confused to what you cannot believe.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

Mr Pooch said:


> Dakota spirit,understandable but obviously you have read the posts and it goes further than the original posting!Kameha doesnt seem like an uncontrolable lunatic to me just a dog thats just turned two and happens to be of a breed "yes" that could potentially do alot of damage.I cant BELIEVE some of the things said also and im a tad confused to what you cannot believe.


Yes, I was aware it went beyond that...I just didn't feel like getting in the middle of the scuffle. I wasn't calling Kameha out of control, just stating my opinion on the matter. I don't care how old your dog is - you need to be in control if you are going to be in public.

If you've read any of my posts, you'll know that I am a huge advocate of such breeds. I don't need to be told of the steryotypes...I'm well aware.

...and as said, I cannot believe some of the things that have been posted in this thread. I didn't signal anyone out because 1) many of my points and opinions have already be stated and 2) I didn't feel inclined to add to the fire that is already sparking between posters here.


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## Dogsareme (Mar 1, 2007)

Yes I think Kameha is more then fine to go the park too. Just watch the humping behavior and stop it, and if she is getting to excited with another dog who is playing fetch, to be on the safe side just call her away. Nothing more you can do.

Dogstar - I to have trained my dog not to resource guard, even to the point she will spit out food if she thinks I have something she wants (literatly, it is so funny I should record it one time... lol half eaten food just falls out)...but when it comes to other dogs and they start getting to excited when she is chasing her ball and then start trying to take it, she corrects them. And I am sorry if it is wrong of me....but I let her...... she corrects them nicely and I think she should be allowed to because really the other dog should not be bugging her or trying to take her toy. 

And of course dogs and people are different and yes we will never know exactly how they think but I am only trying to use an analogy that is easy to comprehend that is close to the same circumstances. 

I do not understand why we all expect our dogs to be perfect .....look at us! At least dogs can't scrap with one another on a computer.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Dakota Spirit said:


> Yes, I was aware it went beyond that...I just didn't feel like getting in the middle of the scuffle. I wasn't calling Kameha out of control, just stating my opinion on the matter. I don't care how old your dog is - you need to be in control if you are going to be in public.
> 
> If you've read any of my posts, you'll know that I am a huge advocate of such breeds. I don't need to be told of the steryotypes...I'm well aware.
> 
> ...and as said, I cannot believe some of the things that have been posted in this thread. I didn't signal anyone out because 1) many of my points and opinions have already be stated and 2) I didn't feel inclined to add to the fire that is already sparking between posters here.


My appologies Dakota spirit i wasnt being offish just trying to find your stance in the situation.I have followed many of your posts and find them both knowledgeable and interesting(also noticed ur advocacy of such breeds) i understand fully the need to have your dog under FULL control but i just felt Kamehas experience had been turned into something other than it was.LMH seems to be doing a fine job with him to me.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

Mr Pooch said:


> My appologies Dakota spirit i wasnt being offish just trying to find your stance in the situation.I have followed many of your posts and find them both knowledgeable and interesting(also noticed ur advocacy of such breeds) i understand fully the need to have your dog under FULL control but i just felt Kamehas experience had been turned into something other than it was.LMH seems to be doing a fine job with him to me.


It's fine, I wasn't offended or anything - sorry if it came off that way. My comments were not necessarily targeted at LMH and her Kameha, rather they were meant for some of the other posters on this thread.

I don't think it's a matter of expecting our dogs to be 'perfect', as little things DO happen. If you know your dog has a problem though (ie. resource guarding) then it needs to be handled, and you shouldn't be putting your animal into situations that will spark up such behaviors. I just think, if you are going to go into such off leash areas then you need to have an animal that is guaranteed (or pretty darn close) to be on it's best behavior. Otherwise things get unsafe for everyone.

Heh, I'm sure it's obvious..but I'm not a big fan of dog parks. Too many people that DON'T have any control whatsoever over their pets. Not only that, but any misbehavior gets dismissed to easily as "oh..they're just playing!" Just not my kind of scene.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

LOL.know what you mean,its different over here you can take your dog to almost any park PROVIDED its well behaved.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Dakota Spirit said:


> This thread gives me a headache - mainly because I cannot *believe* some of the arguments that are actually being made.
> 
> Bottom line is, you want to go to a dog park? Then you sure as hell better have a well behaved animal. Other park goers should not have to accommodate you because you can't control your pet. Period.


It did turn into a bit of a headache. I don't see a dog mounting as an out of control pet. My dog has been mounted countless times and he never snapped back at them for it. It's a dog park, dogs are going to get mounted-they are animals after all. I know these breeds can do a lot of damage. I see the small puncture underneath my dog's chin and on his cheek. And that was minor.he has never bit a do like that so I assume he has a good temperment. In fact if he had ever bit a dog I wouldn't take him to the dog park period. Over all my dog is very well behaved.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

LMH the fact that Kam has let other dogs mount him and not retaliated aggressively just proves my point that your doing fine with him and he is certainly not a "problem" pooch.


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Dakota Spirit said:


> This thread gives me a headache - mainly because I cannot *believe* some of the arguments that are actually being made.
> 
> Bottom line is, you want to go to a dog park? Then you sure as hell better have a well behaved animal. Other park goers should not have to accommodate you because you can't control your pet. Period.


I completely agree.....


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

LMH said:


> It did turn into a bit of a headache. I don't see a dog mounting as an out of control pet. My dog has been mounted countless times and he never snapped back at them for it. It's a dog park, dogs are going to get mounted-they are animals after all. I know these breeds can do a lot of damage. I see the small puncture underneath my dog's chin and on his cheek. And that was minor.he has never bit a do like that so I assume he has a good temperment. In fact if he had ever bit a dog I wouldn't take him to the dog park period. Over all my dog is very well behaved.


See, in my mind that is not acceptable. If my dog had a mounting habit I would correct it - ESPECIALLY if I planned to attend a dog park. I'd expect the same from any other owner, as well. There are plenty of dogs out there (case and point, here) that do not appreciate being mounted...and they shouldn't have to deal with, nor should the owners.

Far to many behaviors are dismissed as 'normal dog behavior', and your right...they are. The fact remains though that these behaviors are not always welcomely accepted by other dogs and thus can not become common practice in pack situations (the parks) with strange LOOSE dogs. It leads to too many fights and just isn't responsible, in my opinion.

And for the record, once again, my comments have nothing to do with Kam's breed or the breeds of any of the other dogs. Nor do I think Kam is a problem dog. I am simply giving my opinion on this particular situation.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Dakota Spirit said:


> See, in my mind that is not acceptable. If my dog had a mounting habit I would correct it - ESPECIALLY if I planned to attend a dog park. I'd expect the same from any other owner, as well. There are plenty of dogs out there (case and point, here) that do not appreciate being mounted...and they shouldn't have to deal with, nor should the owners.
> 
> Far to many behaviors are dismissed as 'normal dog behavior', and your right...they are. The fact remains though that these behaviors are not always welcomely accepted by other dogs and thus can not become common practice in pack situations (the parks) with strange LOOSE dogs. It leads to too many fights and just isn't responsible, in my opinion.
> 
> And for the record, once again, my comments have nothing to do with Kam's breed or the breeds of any of the other dogs. Nor do I think Kam is a problem dog. I am simply giving my opinion on this particular situation.


I do see that the last thing anyone wants is problems at the dog park and everyone should do their part so that everyone has a safe fun time. It could also be argued that the dogs being mounted and snap should not be so defensive and therefore shouldn't be taken to the dog park. My dog doesn't mind being sniffed by other dogs while some dogs have a big problem with it. i see that all the time at the dog park, so should we not let the dogs sniff each other cuz it might upset the other dog? All sorts of things can tick a dog off and it is in a lot of cases no body's fault. I just think this situation was being blown up , it was a scuffle and dogs have them.I will be very responsible and on top of it next time.I do not know how to work through a problem by avoiding it which is why I don't want to stop going. he has a mounting problem not a biting problem so I think on leash would be fine. Originally all I asked was if anyone thought his interaction with my parents aggressive dogs had any affect on him.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

I do think some things got out of hand, yeah. That tends to happen on message boards, I've noticed.

In the interest of ending the argument though, I'll just shake hands and agree to disagree on some aspects. You're going to be working with him, so it doesn't really need to be discussed anymore .


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

Very well said. THE END


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## MegaMuttMom (Sep 15, 2007)

The whole arguement that dogs shouldn't be allowed to mount gets my goat. I have the world's most submissive dog and he, in a strange dog moment, has mounted maybe 3 other dogs, just momentarily and half-heartedly. I am always shocked and surprised. Now, if this is the one and only time another owner has met my dog, is it fair to assume I have an out-of-control dog who shouldn't be at a dog park? I don't ask him to stop because it has always been over so quick and what would be the point?

Now my dog has been repeatedly mounted by smaller dogs and the owners NEVER ask their dogs to stop and seem to think it is cute and funny. My dog goes into a submissive posture and cowers away. He does not snap or anything, he is VERY submissive. The most offensive thing he has done to stop mounting is to sit down when the dog was approaching so the other dog couldn't have a rump to mount.

My dog also has been barked at straight in the face by numerous kinds of terriers and he responds with submissive posture to that. One time a Wheaton Terrier kept approaching and wouldn't stop barking in his face and my dog showed his teeth. Should the other owner have a right to say my dog shouldn't be allowed to show his teeth? Shouldn't that owner be keyed into the fact that their dog was being pushy? I don't get involved in these interactions because I watch my dog and he has never shown any sign of turning into an aggressive dog. He is what I would call "bullet proof".

Now, given all of that, he is a very rough player with dogs who like to play rough. Some other dog owners take this as aggression. I like the response that I got from another dog owner yesterday. Our dogs were playing rough and she commented that wow, your dog is so submissive, you will never have to face a dog fight. She could see his body language. She understood that not all rough dogs are aggressive dogs. My dog mouths on me and he is gentle as can be. He personality is as soft as can be also. But, he looks bull-ish to some people and it sends their rational thinking out the window. Yes, he does take other dogs down in a flash, often with his mouth on the neck. But, the other dog jumps back up and comes right back at him. Cherokee doesn't get taken down because he is so athletic and/or he rolls on his back so fast to show his belly (did I mention that he is super-submissive?)

I think the dog that responded to Kameha's mounting with a bite is at fault. I don't care if he was guarding a ball. Responding to another dog's mounting with teeth puncturing skin is wrong, wrong, wrong. I would hope that Kameha would learn not to respond back with his teeth. Clearly they both controlled their bites but punctures can be serious wounds that easily get infected. I would keep an eye on him to see how he responds to obnoxious behavior and if it is on the aggressive side of the scale (rather than using calming signals, he uses his teeth), then I would question the wisdom in taking him to dog parks. That would be for his own safety as well as the other dogs.


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## Dogstar (May 11, 2007)

I don't think mounting is a problem, particularly, except when it gets obsessive and out of hand. My boy will move away, offer calming signals, and try and diffuse the situation pretty much every way he knows how- but he won't snap. Mal is a bit saintly though, and I don't expect every do to go that far. I *do* expect them to not take it as far as biting. What I find really obnoxious though, is when these other dogs are repeatedly shoving Mal around just because they can, he's not having fun, we've moved across the park multiple times to try and get away from the dog, and the dog's owner does NOTHING to redirect their own dog. 

Mal is not a rough player- he loves to run WITH other dogs but he doesn't like a whole lot o physical contact. (Occasionally he'll collide with another dog because he's got lousy brakes and doesn't turn on a dime the way some lighter dogs do). I think the important thing for ALL dog owners to realize is that dogs play differently- and a lot of what 'appropriate behavior' is is defined by the dogs your dog is playing with- this isn't to say that your dog must always give way- but in a public space, there's always give and take. Having a rock solid recall, leave it, and being willing to leave when your dog is not behaving are just necessities of the dog park, IMO.


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## LMH (Jan 2, 2008)

MegaMuttMom said:


> Now my dog has been repeatedly mounted by smaller dogs and the owners NEVER ask their dogs to stop and seem to think it is cute and funny. My dog goes into a submissive posture and cowers away. He does not snap or anything, he is VERY submissive. The most offensive thing he has done to stop mounting is to sit down when the dog was approaching so the other dog couldn't have a rump to mount.


I know what you mean. They always think it's funny when dogs mount him just because they are usually smaller. Kameha usually just looks at them like what the hell are you trying to do , then he keeps walking.



MegaMuttMom said:


> My dog also has been barked at straight in the face by numerous kinds of terriers and he responds with submissive posture to that. One time a Wheaton Terrier kept approaching and wouldn't stop barking in his face and my dog showed his teeth. Should the other owner have a right to say my dog shouldn't be allowed to show his teeth? Shouldn't that owner be keyed into the fact that their dog was being pushy? I don't get involved in these interactions because I watch my dog and he has never shown any sign of turning into an aggressive dog.


Same here. He has gotten snapped in the face by many other dogs and the look on his face is sad, he never snapped back he just puts his head down and walks away. 



MegaMuttMom said:


> Yes, he does take other dogs down in a flash, often with his mouth on the neck. But, the other dog jumps back up and comes right back at him.


That is how my dog plays. he mouths other dogs which looks scary cuz he's so big but has never bit down on another dog. He's been taken down by a huskie that was half his size-haha. That husky new how to play. 



MegaMuttMom said:


> I think the dog that responded to Kameha's mounting with a bite is at fault. I don't care if he was guarding a ball. Responding to another dog's mounting with teeth puncturing skin is wrong, wrong, wrong. I would hope that Kameha would learn not to respond back with his teeth. Clearly they both controlled their bites but punctures can be serious wounds that easily get infected. I would keep an eye on him to see how he responds to obnoxious behavior and if it is on the aggressive side of the scale (rather than using calming signals, he uses his teeth), then I would question the wisdom in taking him to dog parks. That would be for his own safety as well as the other dogs.


For as many times as kam was bullied by other dogs when he was younger I totally thought he would be leery of dogs but it hasn't seemed to stop him from wanting to play and meet other dogs. What I have to work on with him is mounting and prey drive. Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Dogsareme (Mar 1, 2007)

I will admit my one girl is a pretty big "WORD FOR A FEMALE DOG" when it comes to other dogs mounting her. She will turn around and correct them. She is not into the mounting thing. She has never engaged in it either. 
She first gives them the calming signs, then the growl, and then the turn and snap. Being fair she does give them time...
My other dogs are not very into mounting either. The odd time they will do it to another dog and usually if I clap my hands (to grab there attention, just so much is going on in the park they are not always listening for your voice) then I tell them off, it seems to work. 
Mounting can be a problem again depending on the dogs engaging in it. Some will just put up with it. My other 3 do nothing and just stand for it, but my female will not stand for it long.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> Well I'd be furious if I saw you playing fetch with your dog dogstar. Because a dog park is a place for the dogs to play, not for you to play with the dog. Our dog park has a rule that no toys are allowed because some dogs have resouce guarding issues and if they see another dog playing fetch and they want the ball then it can cause a fight. If I saw people playing fetch with their dogs I'd call and complain to the people who own the dog park so that the person can either get a warning or banned from the park.


All the dog parks I have been too have dog toys available????? Soooooo????? Hmmmmmmm...
You can't bring your own toys, but I have always seen toys available. What's the point of a dog park in a big city if you can't play with your own dog...seriously? What if that's the only place you can actually play with your dog in the 'open' because you live in an apartment? One shouldn't have to be concerned about another owner's dog's attacking theirs if they are playing with them. 

Public parks aren't always welcoming of people allowing dogs off lead, much less people letting them run and play. So Dog Parks are the only place people can go; and I am sorry but when my dog is having fun, I want to be interacting with him and having fun too...not just losing him in a crowd! Sure, I'll let 'em run for a bit, but after a while, it's nice to actually call the dog back, and play one one one; it's a great place to work obedience and agility with distractions as well. Haha. 

Yes, dog parks ARE for dogs to play, HOWEVER, if a dog owner is bringing a dog who is a resource guarder, or even would guard his companion dog, that owner should not even consider going to a dog park. If they know their dog has not been properly socialized, they shouldn't be there; not just because there are other dogs there, but there are other people there. 

I, for example, would NEVER bring my dog Dominoe to a dog park; one, because he is dog aggressive. two, because he will guard Sophie, three, because he doesn't like other people. I won't take the risk of him biting another dog, OR a person. He's had tons of socialization, too...he's just not ever gotten 'better' in his attitude.



Dakota Spirit said:


> This thread gives me a headache - mainly because I cannot *believe* some of the arguments that are actually being made.
> 
> Bottom line is, you want to go to a dog park? Then you sure as hell better have a well behaved animal. Other park goers should not have to accommodate you because you can't control your pet. Period.


Hahahahahahaha...DITTO!!!!



Durbkat said:


> But a person should be able to take their resource guarding dog to a park without having to teach it a recall because someone brought a toy to play with their dog instead of letting it play with other dogs. If you don't have a yard to play fetch with a dog then do it inside, thats what I do with my dog. He hasn't been to a dog park yet but he is fine with playing fetch inside and running around outside.


A dog who knows no recall shouldn't be OFF LEAD PERIOD!!!!! If you don't have that voice control over your dog, then he can't be off lead in such a big area yet...he's got some learning to do; and you've got some work to do. What if there are big dogs there? What if there are dogs there that start a scuffle? You want to be able to call your dog off and away from there...a dog with no recall will likely be too distracted to want to come to you...get the obedience training down, then work on off lead parks.



Durbkat said:


> tcasby, I saw your post before you edited it. For people without a yard, as I stated, should play fetch inside their house. If there dog is to large and the house is to small for them to play fetch inside then maybe they shouldn't get such a large dog.


That's awful selfish...and not always do able either; what if you don't have that large of a house? AND have a large or just plain active dog???? What about smaller dogs who are super active??? In my previous apartment I had NO room to exercise my dogs...NONE...and I know I am not the only person on here who was or is in that kind of a situation...you telling people to simply exercise their dogs inside before going to a dogpark to exercise them is immature and selfish...dog parks are for everyone. True, not all parks are going to allow you to bring your own toys; and I recommend that one doesn't, but I don't think a person should "have" to play fetch with their dog at home before heading off to the dog park...



Durbkat said:


> So what are the people with resource guarding dogs supposed to for exercise with their dog because somebody brought a ball to play at the park. So you wouldn't care if your dog barked/growled at the dog for stealing the ball from him?


I won't bring my resource gaurding dog to a park...period; no one should, that's the point. There are other ways to exercise a resource guarder, like teaching him to bike along side you, jogging with him, roller blading, etc...Even doggie day care can be an option, because you can cater it specific to your dog's needs. And if you have a resource guarder, you can learn the 'off times' too, and go when there is no one there, as well...it works both ways. Not just those who want to play fetch should have to go during off times. In every park I have been to there have always been toys available, too, so no matter what time one would go, a resource guarder 'could' potentially be an issue...one thing to keep in mind. My Sophie, loves to play with toys, so if a resource guarder saw her...I certainly wouldn't be happy.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

So say, Snoopy had resource guarding issues, he doesn't I can take food out of his mouth while he is chewing and toys, he can't exactly run along with me on a bike and I can't rollerblade and I can't jog for long periods of time because of my weight. Plus we don't have doggy day care. So he shouldn't get to play with other dogs because there is a chance there could be a scuffle over a toy. 

I know not all dog parks are as strict as ours but I'm glad ours is that way. 

I don't want to argue with you guys, I'm just trying to get you to see that resource guarding dogs shouldn't not be allowed because people are playing with their dogs.


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## Dakota Spirit (Jul 31, 2007)

Durbkat said:


> So say, Snoopy had resource guarding issues, he doesn't I can take food out of his mouth while he is chewing and toys, he can't exactly run along with me on a bike and I can't rollerblade and I can't jog for long periods of time because of my weight. Plus we don't have doggy day care. *So he shouldn't get to play with other dogs because there is a chance there could be a scuffle over a toy.*
> 
> I know not all dog parks are as strict as ours but I'm glad ours is that way.
> 
> I don't want to argue with you guys, I'm just trying to get you to see that resource guarding dogs shouldn't not be allowed because people are playing with their dogs.


He should AT LEAST be restricted from engaging in play with dogs when it involves toys, food, or other desirable objects.

Your argument makes absolutely no sense. It'd be the same if I tried to take my dog (who is dog aggressive) to the park and made the argument that I should be allowed to bring her anyway...because there is only a _chance_ she'll get into a fight.

But taking your known resource guarder into an area with a lot of toys and a lot of dogs - your are setting him/her up failure, and that isn't fair to the dog or the other park goers.


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## Durbkat (Jun 26, 2007)

Not all dog parks have toys supplied, ours doesn't. It would just be the random person who brought one or two toys with them. I know you don't see my point, which is your choice. It makes sense to me.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

This is totally off topic but Durbkat when you said you can take anything out of snoopys mouth,toys,food i think thats really important because i can do that with all mine too and if i see one show of teeth there would be trouble.There is only one pack leader in my house ME.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Dakota Spirit said:


> He should AT LEAST be restricted from engaging in play with dogs when it involves toys, food, or other desirable objects.
> 
> Your argument makes absolutely no sense. It'd be the same if I tried to take my dog (who is dog aggressive) to the park and made the argument that I should be allowed to bring her anyway...because there is only a _chance_ she'll get into a fight.
> 
> But taking your known resource guarder into an area with a lot of toys and a lot of dogs - your are setting him/her up failure, and that isn't fair to the dog or the other park goers.



Stole the words out of my mouth...Lol...

I suppose you could play with your dog at home too...like you pointed out earlier, to those of us who like to play interactively. I am not trying to be rude, just pointing out an option, if this was an actual 'ordeal' you and snoop had to face


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Durbkat said:


> Not all dog parks have toys supplied, ours doesn't. It would just be the random person who brought one or two toys with them. I know you don't see my point, which is your choice. It makes sense to me.


I see the point,everyone brings their dogs favourite toy to the dog park=MADNESS


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Mr Pooch said:


> I see the point,everyone brings their dogs favourite toy to the dog park=MADNESS


I don't see it as madness...if people can handle their dogs, what is there to worry about? I have no problem playing with other dogs too...do it when ever I encounter other dogs...I have plenty of extra ropes and balls, too, if the park doesn't have any  I also carry extra treats. 

Often, what I have encountered is the owner coming over, and 'apologizing' for their dog being a pest, even though it was engaging in lovely play...oh well, their loss. I always make sure to tell them it was okay that their dog was playing...sometimes they let the dog stay, sometimes they don't. 

If I encounter a problem dog, I put my toys away, watch how the dog continues to interact, and if there still seems to be an issue, I will try to hunt the owner down...I kindly ask them to keep their dog closer to them, and to keep an eye on their behavior because they seem a bit edgey. Dog parks are meant to be fun for everyone, not just one dog, or one person. And some people just bring their dogs there to let them run, and don't bother keeping an eye on them...a kind reminder is usually all it takes to snap them back to reality that this is not "their" property. Plus, if your not watching your own dog, you can't clean up after him either...Lol!!!



Mr Pooch said:


> This is totally off topic but Durbkat when you said you can take anything out of snoopys mouth,toys,food i think thats really important because i can do that with all mine too and if i see one show of teeth there would be trouble.There is only one pack leader in my house ME.


Ditto on that...


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Love's_Sophie said:


> I don't see it as madness...if people can handle their dogs, what is there to worry about? I have no problem playing with other dogs too...do it when ever I encounter other dogs...I have plenty of extra ropes and balls, too, if the park doesn't have any  I also carry extra treats.
> 
> 
> LOL.poor old Kameha,this post has turned into "TOYS AT THE DOG PARK YES OR NO?" but i see everyones point and i think maybe everyone should agree to disagree


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Mr Pooch said:


> This is totally off topic but Durbkat when you said you can take anything out of snoopys mouth,toys,food i think thats really important because i can do that with all mine too and if i see one show of teeth there would be trouble.There is only one pack leader in my house ME.


Well, that's kind of what it's like with my Betty. The only difference is instead of being able to take something out of her mouth, she shares with me, lol. It's not hard at all getting stuff out of her mouth, especially when she offers it to me, lol.


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## Mr Pooch (Jan 28, 2008)

Lonewolfblue said:


> Well, that's kind of what it's like with my Betty. The only difference is instead of being able to take something out of her mouth, she shares with me, lol. It's not hard at all getting stuff out of her mouth, especially when she offers it to me, lol.


Lonewolfblue,betty sounds lovely,what i hate about taking things out of Aslans mouth is the drool im covered in after so i travel with baby wipes.lol


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## Lonewolfblue (Oct 28, 2007)

Mr Pooch said:


> Lonewolfblue,betty sounds lovely,what i hate about taking things out of Aslans mouth is the drool im covered in after so i travel with baby wipes.lol


hehehe, got to love that drool, lol......


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