# When can you leave a Yellow Lab Puppy Outside



## bacchus (Jun 5, 2009)

We got our Yellow Lab about 4 weeks ago from a good local breeder. I plan to make him a duck dog for hunting. He will be 11 weeks old on Monday. We are crating him on the back porch during the day while at work and i go home at lunch to let him out and then again after work. We also crate him at night while sleeping. Our back yard is completely fenced in. My question is at what age is it acceptable to give him free range of the back yard and not crate him anymore. I'm not worried about him getting out. I'm more worried about him chewing up something that will kill him. I will obviously clean up all material i thought he could get into prior to this. 

He is allowed inside while we are home for play and sleep. Once he is full grown he will only be allowed inside for sleep. Play will be outside. So he does need to be house broken. He has had a few accidents in the house when we first got him but we watch him like a hawk now and he gives us just alittle warning before going...i usually catch him in time.

So at what point can I let him just roam the back yard at night and at work? Thanks! Any other tips will be appreciated. He is an awesome puppy...he has sit, stay and come down well already and sits on the whistle sometimes. I'm getting him there!


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## MissMutt (Aug 8, 2008)

I totally disagree with your decision to leave the puppy outside unattended.

Why not just move the crate indoors? It is much safer, regardless of a fenced yard. Safe from someone trying to steal him, safe from the possibility of him digging out/climbing over a fence, and to be left outside alone constantly is to deny a dog what they want: to be with their owner.

If you even have the slightest bit of worry about him chewing something, you should keep him inside. It seems like the obvious fix. A bored puppy alone in a backyard will likely dig, chew and eat things he shouldn't be touching.


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## LoveMyBirdDog (Apr 3, 2009)

Not sure where you live but isn't it too hot outside to leave the dog crated on the porch? Hopefully this is a screened or covered porch. I agree with Miss Mutt that the pup should be crated inside during the day. Then when you get home you can play with the pup outside in the fenced yard.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Read this thread.
http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/52797-how-well-do-gsd.html

Or the first two pages at least... after that it kind of veers off-topic.


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## bacchus (Jun 5, 2009)

LoveMyBirdDog said:


> Not sure where you live but isn't it too hot outside to leave the dog crated on the porch? Hopefully this is a screened or covered porch. I agree with Miss Mutt that the pup should be crated inside during the day. Then when you get home you can play with the pup outside in the fenced yard.


LOL. The back porch is covered and in the shade and I leave the fan on. What do other wild animals that live outside do for the heat? I guess they randomly die from it?


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

bacchus said:


> LOL. The back porch is covered and in the shade and I leave the fan on. What do other wild animals that live outside do for the heat? I guess they randomly die from it?


They make their way into cooler parts of town. 

Maybe my perspective differs from yours, but I'd like my pet to have a much more comfortable life than that of a wild animal.


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## LoveMyBirdDog (Apr 3, 2009)

bacchus said:


> LOL. The back porch is covered and in the shade and I leave the fan on. What do other wild animals that live outside do for the heat? I guess they randomly die from it?


Well if the crate was in the direct sun and the pup was unable to make its way to any shade then the dog could most certainly die for heat exhaustion.


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## sheltiemom (Mar 13, 2007)

I hope you are keeping water in the crate in a container that cannot be spilled....they make different attachments for inside crates. I disagree with crating him outdoors and I also disagree with outdoor dogs in general, but regardless, it's important for him to have water out there.


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## FidoTheYorkie (May 12, 2009)

I could never leave my dog outside alone!
I think its cruel to leave a dog outside and then just go for work or something.
Thats just what i think.

My dog is always in a crate inside when no one is home, and sometimes he just comes with us and waits in the car (we always have the window open ofcaurse)


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## chul3l3ies1126 (Aug 13, 2007)

My answer?

Sorry, but I dont have one that could help you... I have 5 dogs, 2 being Great Danes... and they are always inside. They only go out when they want, and when I'm out there.

My dogs are FAMILY members and deserve the same respect and the same level comfort 24/7 that we do. They are never "bored" the way SOME people think inside dogs are... they all get 30 mins-1 hour walk every day.... and how can they be "bored" when they are with the humans they want to be with most?

Plus... a Lab puppy... left alone outside... is just ASKING for disaster. Their level of destruction knows no ends... so your yard must be COMPLETELY puppy proofed if you wont be watching him the whole time he is left outside.

Nessa


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I don't think it's possible to lab-proof (or Plott-proof) a yard.

If my dogs can't find some trouble to get into, they will dig up trouble. Maybe I'll post pictures later. They have dug up nasty-looking stuff that should probably be donated to the Smithsonian. And that's while I'm home.

I'll also post photos of my kennel solution - 1 12'x18' chain link kennel run where they can be safe and secure outside on mild days. The only time the have the run of the large, fenced yard is when I'm home with them. At night, they are in the house regardless.


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## 'tasha (Sep 12, 2007)

rosemaryninja said:


> They make their way into cooler parts of town.
> 
> Maybe my perspective differs from yours, but I'd like my pet to have a much more comfortable life than that of a wild animal.


Couldn't have said it better myself!


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## GenuineGoldens (Feb 24, 2009)

bacchus said:


> We got our Yellow Lab about 4 weeks ago from a good local breeder. I plan to make him a duck dog for hunting. He will be 11 weeks old on Monday. We are crating him on the back porch during the day while at work and i go home at lunch to let him out and then again after work. We also crate him at night while sleeping. Our back yard is completely fenced in. My question is at what age is it acceptable to give him free range of the back yard and not crate him anymore. I'm not worried about him getting out. I'm more worried about him chewing up something that will kill him. I will obviously clean up all material i thought he could get into prior to this.
> 
> He is allowed inside while we are home for play and sleep. Once he is full grown he will only be allowed inside for sleep. Play will be outside. So he does need to be house broken. He has had a few accidents in the house when we first got him but we watch him like a hawk now and he gives us just alittle warning before going...i usually catch him in time.
> 
> So at what point can I let him just roam the back yard at night and at work? Thanks! Any other tips will be appreciated. He is an awesome puppy...he has sit, stay and come down well already and sits on the whistle sometimes. I'm getting him there!


I'll just answer the question. 
Before giving him more freedom (run of the backyard), give it a test run. I'd start by just leaving him in the yard while you're home. Watch out the window and see how he does. He'll be fine. Then, maybe on the weekends when you don't have to work, leave him out in the yard while you run a quick errand in town. Gradually leave him for longer periods until you can trust him. Crate him when you leave for work like normal, and when you return at lunch to let him out, leave him in the yard until you get home from work. If you intend for him to sleep inside as an adult, go ahead and keep him crated at night still (I wouldn't give him run of the yard at night). Happy future duck hunting!


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

Having experienced the destruction a Lab puppy can do when "everything is picked up", Id have to go with never. And thats just with the risks already present in any given yard. Pup could eat a stick or rock and end up with an intestinal blockage or the stick caught in his mouth/throat. 

He could dig under or climb over the fence which then puts him at risk of being hit by a car, he could be stolen from the yard (happened with my brother in laws yellow female...in a small town), bored dogs often bark which could lead to a neighbor dropping poison over the fence. 

You have to decide if the risk of one day coming home to a missing, dead or seriously ill puppy are worth it. To me, its not. My boy (47lb, 15 1/2 week old Saint Bernard) is a house dog. Im not willing to leave his life in the hands of those we dont know.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

I know many people with "outdoor only dogs". For some, they are show dogs, and they're kept outside to keep them in coat. Others have hunting kennels and keep them outside so they're acclaimated to the weather of the area.

They both have one thing in common:
None are allowed free roam of the yards. They're all in Indoor/outdoor kennel runs.


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## pugmom (Sep 10, 2008)

Xeph said:


> I know many people with "outdoor only dogs". For some, they are show dogs, and they're kept outside to keep them in coat. Others have hunting kennels and keep them outside so they're acclaimated to the weather of the area.
> 
> They both have one thing in common:
> None are allowed free roam of the yards. They're all in Indoor/outdoor kennel runs.


I'm in agreement with Xeph.....I personally would not leave my dogs out all day ..just too many uncontrollable elements to try to deal with .....but if I was it would be in a kennel w/shelter and water available and if possible a top........I could never see letting them run the yard all day...


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## peppy264 (Apr 23, 2009)

I think only the OP can answer because it all depends on your back yard, the area you live etc. Dog thefts? Coyotes? Escape? Problems for some, not for others.

I can tell you from other threads there is a big bias on DF against having your dog outside, even if inside they would be alone and probably in a crate. I think that bias is unfortunate and that most dogs would rather be alone in the back yard than alone inside. You just have to evaluate the risks in your particular situation and whether or not they are acceptable. Dogs are animals. Outside is good, as long as they have adequate shelter and safety.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

Xeph said:


> They both have one thing in common:
> None are allowed free roam of the yards. They're all in Indoor/outdoor kennel runs.


This is key. Bored Lab puppies will find something interesting to do, and their destructive capacity is a force to be reckoned with. I wouldn't expect to be able to give a young Lab the free run of the yard (without supervision) before he's about 2 years of age. A properly constructed kennel/run/doghouse is an investment that will pay enormous dividends. By the time cold weather becomes an issue, he should be big enough to handle it--assuming he's got appropriate shelter available.


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## 4dogs3cats (Dec 21, 2007)

My dogs have free roam of the yard all day when I am at work. But they are allowed inside via a doggy door. i could not keep my dogs outside 24/7 because it is arizona and they would surely die. (That and I have them sleep IN my bed and that would get too dirty lol.)

If I had a situation where they had to be kept outside, I would do a setup like what Ron has, or a indoor/outdoor kennel situation.

if you have already made your choice, just make sure there is plenty of water... water that at ALL points in the day are never in direct sunlight.


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

bacchus said:


> LOL. The back porch is covered and in the shade and I leave the fan on. What do other wild animals that live outside do for the heat? I guess they randomly die from it?


Oh but you sound terribly ignorant compared to all these learned folk. Honestly you should build your dog a separate house, equipped with automatic waterer (with added electrolytes of course), velvet cushions, don't forget the air conditioning and adequate ventilation, he needs a live in nanny for those hours when you're not at home, so he never learns to be alone and how to cope with that. And when the nanny goes to the toilet, which nannies inevitably do (idiots) he'll need a plasma screen Tv with inbuilt dvd and sound system, so that he can watch Lassie all day long, but never the same movie twice, because heaven forbid he get bored. He'll need a nutritionist on site, to advise him constantly on his organic raw food diet. Oh and don't forget to get him castrated, we couldn't possibly have a person like YOU breeding inferior puppies destined for shelters everywhere.
seriously everyone needs to relax, I'm sure she's quite confident in herself as a dog owner and knows what her dog needs. Hell my dogs live outside....arrest me. you could probably start to let him out now for half the day, if you're confident you've picked everything harmful up, there shouldn't be a problem.


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## aokisweet (Apr 17, 2009)

I Like the last half of the answers. They are reasonable although the Plasma might be a bit much! 

Honestly, I am sure you have the answers you want by now. I am certain your a concerned dog owner trying to do the right thing and seeking advise. Good luck, and sorry you got bashed.........AND ITS FRIDAY!


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## jbsmomto1 (Mar 7, 2009)

I could never get a pet, claim that was pet was part of my family, but yet not have the pet live WITH the family. Mind you I have small dogs. I don't see the point in keeping a dog outside all the time. Nor would I ever leave my dogs outside unattended, to many dog thieves in this world.


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

Wow, GSDGal.. can you get any ruder? If you don't like what people has the say, there is this X button at the top right corner of the window, click it and do not return.

I also disagree with leaving a dog outside unattended. I watch dogs jump fences, wander the streets, even get hit by cars, because their owners decided that their dog would be happier outside then inside where they are safe. Dogs do not need a yard at all. They are nice, yes but they do not "need" them. Nubs hasn't had a real "yard" since I've owned him and he is a very very happy dog. 

Now, When I am able to actually start my own kennels, Yes they will be outside dogs. No questions, BUT they will be outside in a secure encloser like an indoor/outdoor kennel. It's too easy for a large dog to jump a 6ft fence, or even dig under it. It's just as easy for a small dog to crawl under the fence or through a small hole in the fence.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

Here, as promised, is my personal solution.



















Truly, it depends on your comfort level. There are certainly owners who are comfortable with their dogs having the run of the neighborhood. I see them wandering around and, honestly, I hardly ever seen them dead in the middle of the road.

There are certainly dogs left alone in fenced yards. I can hear them all day long if I happen to be home. But you asked for opinions and you got them.


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

Darkmoon said:


> Wow, GSDGal.. can you get any ruder? If you don't like what people has the say, there is this X button at the top right corner of the window, click it and do not return.
> 
> I also disagree with leaving a dog outside unattended. I watch dogs jump fences, wander the streets, even get hit by cars, because their owners decided that their dog would be happier outside then inside where they are safe. Dogs do not need a yard at all. They are nice, yes but they do not "need" them. Nubs hasn't had a real "yard" since I've owned him and he is a very very happy dog.
> 
> Now, When I am able to actually start my own kennels, Yes they will be outside dogs. No questions, BUT they will be outside in a secure encloser like an indoor/outdoor kennel. It's too easy for a large dog to jump a 6ft fence, or even dig under it. It's just as easy for a small dog to crawl under the fence or through a small hole in the fence.


I wasn't being rude to anyone...I was simply stating my opinion with poetic license, everyone seemed to be very rude to her and it was completely uncalled for...seriously i'm pretty sure she's not dumb enough to leave an expensive lab puppy sitting in a cage in the middle of the hot sun...everyone just thinks they are the bees knees when it comes to dog owning and in the end they don't even answer the darn question asked, but go off into "opinion land".


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## KaseyT (May 7, 2008)

bacchus said:


> LOL. The back porch is covered and in the shade and I leave the fan on. What do other wild animals that live outside do for the heat? I guess they randomly die from it?


Would you only let your child inside for sleep? Labs thrive on companionship. When the family in inside watching TV or whatever, you dog will be desperate to be with you, not outside alone. It is not a hunting machine to be forgotten about when not working.


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## alphadoginthehouse (Jun 7, 2008)

My dogs have always had the run of the yard. Before I got the doggie door, my dogs were outside when I was gone. The one car garage was their "kennel" with carpet, blankets and even an air mattress. I don't think my Jeep has ever been in the garage, and my truck before that only a few times, if the weather was going to be real cold (which in Texas is not often!).

Try it while you are home and see how it goes. Check your fence, and again, and then again, to make sure there are no holes. You would be surprised at the small size a dog can get through! Clean up everything and then check again. I'm sure you will do fine.


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## BetterDog4U (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm not going to pass judgement one way or the other about outside dogs. I'll just say that IMHO I feel a pet should always be around the family, not put outside alone. Dogs are very social animals and they need interaction and input from thier owners. That is the differance between a fair dog and a great dog.

I agree with others here that your dog shouldn't be left unattended and loose. I've seen labs jump and clear a 6 foot fence without ANY trouble. When exposed to outside distractions such as a stray, a female in heat or even a squerral in the next yard, they will do ANYTHING to get out and that can be dangerous for your dog and for the ppl who live in your neighborhood... At minimum, I'd suggest a large dog run with a cover. (6'x12' min)

I have a friend that has 3 black labs that he huts. They ARE outside dogs and have been since the age of 6 months. But like he says, a dog will only work for you if he likes you ... so he provides his dogs with what HE calls the "Best of Both Worlds". 

They all have seperate runs that are in the shade of a big leafy tree, plenty of water, good food twice a day and a clean and dry place to sleep. He made custom dog houses for them. They are 3x5 ft with insulated side walls and insulated roofs that are removable for cleaning. The dog houses have a vent on the back side and he puts a solar powered fan in the vent hole during the summer months so there is good air flow. In the winter he closes the vent to keep the house warm. When it goes below 10 degrees at night, he brings them into the garage where he has a small run and the 3 crates that he uses for transport to and from the field. The garage is kept at 35 degrees in the winter.

They get out a minimum of 3 times a day. 30 mins in the morning, 20 min over the lunch hour and about an hour every evening. (my dogs play with them in the evenings). when the dogs are out he works and plays with them. Tosses balls, retreving dummies and so one. At night they also socialize with other dogs and humans. 

His 12 y-o boy also walks them 3-4 time a week. That keeps them from wanting to run off and see the world ...


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I wasn't being rude to anyone...I was simply stating my opinion with poetic license


No, you were being out and out rude and insulting >.<

My dogs live indoors with me...my dogs are also kenneled while I am away. Are my dogs trained? Yeah, out the yang. My dogs are also in air conditioning, simply because I'M in air conditioning.

My dogs are also SMART and they KNOW when I'm not there/not looking. All dogs are opportunists, but I've noticed that the herders and sporting dogs are the world class robbers, where other breeds lack finesse and take a more "in your face" approach (Terriers anyone)?

I don't agree with keeping dogs outside for the most part, but people are going to do it, and they should at least do it RIGHT. RonE has a good set up. His girls get SAFE, wholesome outdoor time.

We've got a Labrador here at the house. He can't be trusted in free roam of the back yard. He slips under the fence and through gates. He has to be supervised at all times.

This, by the way, is NOT a smart Labrador...he's just good at escaping. I've met smart Labs....Buddy is not one of them. And yet he still manages to poof from the yard if someone isn't paying attention.

I got my dogs for companionship, not a lawn ornament or tool to use whenever I deem them necessary to my current activity.

If the OP wants the dog outside, fine, but proper precautions should be taken. And a kennel run doesn't HAVE to be a narrow 6 x whatever....they can be huge, or they can be small...depends on the dog, but safe containment is key.



> you could probably start to let him out now for half the day, if you're confident you've picked everything harmful up, there shouldn't be a problem.


Yes, let's leave an 11 week old puppy to his own devices....

Honestly OP, you're kind of doing things backwards. If he's going to end up sleeping inside, he should sleep inside all the time. It makes no sense to leave an 11 week old BABY outside by himself, but allow him inside when he's full grown...


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## ownedbypups2010 (May 29, 2009)

wow, just by reading all the notes and advise people are giving is amazing, i see real advise, humor advise (GSDGAL) and all.. her is my 2 cents ( i LOVE giving 2 cents opinons), here is how i see it, now, this advise/suggestion is based only on what i have seen, no one else.. 

when i first got my 2 dogs, ( 4 months and 9 months) they were able to go in and out when the pleased, day or night, granted, we lived in a semi small city, and everyone had dogs in our area, and our backdoor was not seen from the front of the house, and i slept in the living room ( remember this was during training) and we did this for about 3-6 months, then as they go older, we would still allow them in the backyard, and yes _*unsupervised*_, and we never had a problem, it is possible to puppyproof your backyard, not 100% mind you but, it is. kee in mind i have a GSD/lab mix, who, when he stands on his hind legs is taller than 5 ft!!! but, we also taught him NOT to jump fences!! and when we were going thru the digging period, we taught him not to dig!! ( YES, it can be done)!!! 

then, soon after we got them, we started working and **GASP** left them in the backyard unsupervised, we have done this since they were little, and they are still alive well and doing great, yes, every now and then they get into something they are not suppose to, but, they do not tear up the yard.. ADVISE:dogs only get bored when there is nothing to do!! so, to fix that we load up the backyard with TONS of toys, a 5ft wading pool and music!! yes, and it works, we go to work do the things we need to do, and come home and they come in, now, keep in mind, we only do this during the fall spring and summer months, winter time is totally differs, and they are in 95% of the time. 

thru out the day, someone is home and they let them in and out, as needed, and it work.... oh and BTW my mom has 3 dogs that live outside, in a kennel, and they do wonderful, she goes out to visit them everyday, and spends time with them, allowing a dog outside, to me, is the best you can do for them, they get to smell the smells, see the blue sky and enjoy the outdoors! whenever they want. and while they are inside they get the 5 star treatment with bottled water, food from a silver platter ( SARCASIM HERE) and feed from a fork and spoon ! 


Keep in mind that not EVERYONE can spend 24/7 with their dogs, some of us do have to work, and i find it offensive that some have said on here that just because you have and outdoor dog, you are mean and not giving the dog what it really wants??!!!??! who are you to judge that person??? how do you know that they do not care for their dogs!! Sorry that last part was my "tude" coming out.

anyways, i think the OP has to be commended because at least they are looking for advise and wanting to know what is best.. you can see it in the post, and you can tell he/she is wanting what is best for the dog, they have said they come home and care the dog at lunch and such..


On a side note, i am NOT for crating, IMHO i think crating is wrong, unsafe and cruel!! to some of the posters on here that have said would you keep your child out on the porch in the sun with no water ( along those lines) well, to them i would say the same thing, would you keep your own child in a crate they can only stand up turn around and sit back down for UP TO 8 hours per day??? and i am not buying the whole " it is a denning thing"? or " they love the crate"? the reason i say this is because i have seen way to many dogs that have been crated and are NOT happy ( i am entitled to my opninon), and that is no life for a dog... and do not start me on the whole " it helps with house training.. end of rant i am not going there....


so, to the OP good luck on what YOU choose to do and let us know what you are going to do..


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

wow, my dogs live on 35 acres of land during the day, I'm either home or i'm not. They NEVER leave the boundary, they could cross it all they like, but they DON'T because they are TRAINED NOT TO. dogs aren't people, and not matter how much you treat them like people THEY WILL NOT CHANGE! 

and i wasn't being any ruder than anyone else! dog people just hate opinions that differ with their own.



ownedbypups2010 said:


> wow, just by reading all the notes and advise people are giving is amazing, i see real advise, *humor advise (GSDGAL) *and all.. her is my 2 cents ( i LOVE giving 2 cents opinons),


thanks for seeing the humor.....you are now on my top 10 favourite dog people list


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> wow, my dogs live on 35 acres of land during the day, I'm either home or i'm not. They NEVER leave the boundary,


35 acres is a pretty long ways to travel...they're most likely just not inclined to go that far.



> dog people just hate opinions that differ with their own


.
I didn't know that was limited to just dog people....huh.



> IMHO i think crating is wrong, unsafe and cruel!!


How on earth is crating unsafe?



> would you keep your own child in a crate they can only stand up turn around and sit back down for UP TO 8 hours per day???


If he were a brat, probably 



> the reason i say this is because i have seen way to many dogs that have been crated and are NOT happy ( i am entitled to my opninon)


And your opinion it is. I leave the house and somedays Strauss is in his closed kennel, some days he's just got free range of my room....99% of the time when I come home he's laying in his open kennel, not on my bed, and not on the carpeting.



> thanks for seeing the humor.....you are now on my top 10 favourite dog people list


Yes, thank you for encouraging the rude behavior of making fun of people who choose to keep their dogs indoors.



> oh and BTW my mom has 3 dogs that live outside, *in a kennel*


Please note the bolded section



> allowing a dog outside, to me, is the best you can do for them, they get to smell the smells, see the blue sky and enjoy the outdoors!


Color blind, the smells really don't change that much from day to day (no more than indoors), and the last....well, take it up with my Shepherds if you want to know how they feel about "the great outdoors" LOL


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## Darkmoon (Mar 12, 2007)

GSDGAL said:


> wow, my dogs live on 35 acres of land during the day, I'm either home or i'm not. They NEVER leave the boundary, they could cross it all they like, but they DON'T because they are TRAINED NOT TO. dogs aren't people, and not matter how much you treat them like people THEY WILL NOT CHANGE!
> 
> and i wasn't being any ruder than anyone else! dog people just hate opinions that differ with their own.
> 
> ...


Yeah your dogs are the ones I walk past then chase me down as I walk my dog and you never know because they return after they run off.

You want to talk about how we are humanizing our dogs. Your expecting a dog to know not to leave a yard. If your not out there watching what your dogs are doing then how do you know? They are just "dogs" you know. They don't know right from wrong. 

It's funny. Dogs do not need to live outside to be "dogs". Nubs is an indoor dog. He is walked for 1 hour a day which includes a run in an open field or a run with the flirt pole. He never leaves my side, and is a very happy dog. Why? Because his needs are fulfilled. He is just a dog. He has rules he has to live by, and humans come first (although I'm not sure why because my dog is a heck of a lot better then a lot of people I've encountered).

Leaving a puppy outside is not wise. Your asking for a lot of trouble. Puppies are smart and you need to bond with them otherwise they will learn to be scared of you and who wants a hunting dog (or dog in general) that is scared of you?

I'm not pleased with dogs that only live outside. They have more issues then dogs that live inside. There are ways to have an outside dog that are good. But I refuse to risk having a "trusted" neighbor throw poison over the fence or a neighborhood punk take off with my dog for "fun".

You need to respect everyone views even if they are different then your own. And your post was NOT humorous at all, it was insulting. Making fun of people views is never "funny"


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## emily445455 (Apr 8, 2008)

KaseyT said:


> Would you only let your child inside for sleep? Labs thrive on companionship. When the family in inside watching TV or whatever, you dog will be desperate to be with you, not outside alone. It is not a hunting machine to be forgotten about when not working.


I agree. Labs definitly thrive when they are part of the family. Limited human contact can and usually does lead to a not very fun animal to be around....anti social, emotinoal, aggressive, territorial, etc. 

Also...how are you going to potty train when he's outside all the time? The lady I got my labs from adopted a dog who was an outside dog on a farm...he wasn't pottied trained at all.

IMO there are too many down sides to having an outside only dog and too many up sides to having an inside dog who is part of the pack/family.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

And I would like to reiterate to the OP, if you are going to keep your puppy outdoors, that is your perogative. While many of us disagree, that is your choice. OVERALL what we are trying to tell you is that if you're going to do it, offer your dog a nice kennel run (Like RonE's set up) to keep your puppy safe and protected.

As the dog gets older, maybe you wean it away from that, or leave the door open like a giant crate, but containment for these dogs is PARAMOUNT!


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

GSDGAL, your sarcasm is ridiculous. By the way, I don't think ANYONE here who has posted against leaving dogs outside has neurotic dogs with behavioural problems. On the contrary, I think most of the posters who have responded here have dogs trained to a T.

Back to the OP: I don't think it's absurd to leave your dog out in the yard when you are not around, and when he is much older. There are three things you should really consider right now:

1) Your dog is a puppy. Leaving a puppy anywhere unsupervised is not a good idea. Puppies are naturally curious, and when they are curious about things, they put them in their mouths. And like others have said, you'd be surprised at how devious a Lab puppy can be when you think you've puppy-proofed the area.

2) Your dog is a LAB. I don't know if this is your first Lab, but bored Labs are -- how do I put this -- four-legged hurricanes. And before you tell me that he won't be bored because he'll have a yard to run around in... I'm sorry, that won't work. Labs don't entertain themselves by tossing a ball around the yard by themselves. They entertain themselves by playing with their humans, by going on walks, by being put through training sessions. If they can't do these things, they entertain themselves by chewing, digging, barking and trying to escape. (Don't underestimate the escape abilities of a Lab who really wants to get out. They are excellent climbers.)

3) Labs are also a VERY "people breed". I mean, dogs in general LIVE for the purpose of being close to humans, but Labs really live to please their people. There's nothing they love more than to be next to their owners, and although I'm sure you hear this a lot, if you spend quality time with your pup as he grows up, it will really start to show. My boyfriend has a Lab and she literally worships the ground he walks on. She looks at him like he's her own little canine version of Barack Obama. My dogs don't and never will look at me that way. Neither will dogs of certain other breeds. But Labs really look at you like the sun shines out your nose. Because of this, I strongly recommend you continue to let your dog inside the house whenever you are home.

Okay, if you leave your dog outside 16 hours a day, he probably won't die. He probably won't develop any neurotic, obsessive behaviours, or any separation anxiety, although a lot of outside dogs do. But I do think it will be a bit of a waste.


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

Darkmoon said:


> *Yeah your dogs are the ones I walk past then chase me down as I walk my dog and you never know because they return after they run off.
> *


Impossible, i live in the middle of nowhere...everyone's dogs are on farmland...pretty sure no one has ever walked a dog past here....


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

I've had a dog stolen from his run (when I was a kid), and have had one poisoned when I stepped inside for literally a minute or two (last year)...these were totally different 'living places' as one happened in the middle of no where, and the other happened in town. I don't think I, personally, will ever leave my dog unattended for any long period of time outdoors, ever. My dogs will always be with me (I work as a dog groomer and they go into daycare), or will be safely crated at home when I'm away. 

I don't condemn those who feel safe enough to leave their dogs unattended, but after two very hard experiences, I couldn't do it myself. My husband has no problems leaving his dog outdoors, but I can't leave my pooch out there alone, not even for a minute...


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> bored Labs are -- how do I put this -- four-legged hurricanes.


Now THAT is humor! LOL!



> Impossible, i live in the middle of nowhere


Lucky minority


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

APOLOGISES WHOLEHEARTEDLY!

i over stepped....friends?


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

I hope I don't have to start my day tomorrow by banning anyone for losing control here or by reading messages or posts from someone begging us to cancel their registration because they got their feelings hurt. (We can't, BTW.)

Let's try to keep it semi civil. If you are a person who can't sift through all the opinions, take the ones you can use and ignore the rest, an Internet forum is probably not going to be a happy place for you and your days here are almost certainly numbered.

And please don't make any assumptions about who this is directed at. It's directed at all of us.


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## nikkilugi (Mar 11, 2009)

It sounds like this pup is going to be a working dog. I grew up in the country and most hunting and working dogs were raised outside in kennels and most were not indoor/outdoor - outdoor only. I think it is pretty normal for working/hunting dogs to be living outside a lot.

I do think many people get a little too freaked out when they read something they don't agree with. It is ok to state your opinion but (just as a newer observer) some opinions sound pretty condenscending. A person is not BAD if they choose to raise their animal/pet a different way from the majority but some have a hard time seeing around their opinions I think.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> I grew up in the country and most hunting and working dogs were raised outside in kennels and most were not indoor/outdoor -


Curious, what state are you in nikki?


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

nikkilugi said:


> It sounds like this pup is going to be a working dog. I grew up in the country and most hunting and working dogs were raised outside in kennels and most were not indoor/outdoor - outdoor only. I think it is pretty normal for working/hunting dogs to be living outside a lot.
> 
> I do think many people get a little too freaked out when they read something they don't agree with. It is ok to state your opinion but (just as a newer observer) some opinions sound pretty condenscending. A person is not BAD if they choose to raise their animal/pet a different way from the majority but some have a hard time seeing around their opinions I think.


Agree completely.

I keep my dogs crated sometimes on our front porch, but then I'm in the boondocks and we've got a lovely shaded porch with an excellent breeze.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

I like Ron's kennel run. If i had to keep a dog outside, that would be the only way. The dogs all have access to shade, shelter, water etc.

Both my dogs are crate trained, but I'm not a fan of locking a dog in a crate outside. I don't care if the porch is covered. If you're going to lock a dog in a crate where it can't escape direct sunlight or extreme temperature changes, then crate the dog inside where the temperature is more controlled.

Then again, most porches aren't really very climate controlled, so that's just what I'm going by...


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## KenyiGirl (Nov 12, 2008)

I let my dogs outside unsupervised, sometimes for a couple hours. I have a 6 ft wooden fence, and they're pretty respectful of it. I don't think I give them enough exersize, so they get to run around and wrestle outdoors. They always have shade, and there's always water out. But there's no shelter out there, so they come back in at night, or whenever I think it gets too hot out or it rains, etc. 
I trained my puppy to live inside (I crate train, so I didn't worry about her chewing anything up) before letting her stay outside by herself. First and foremost, I wanted her to be comfortable and confident inside, but that's because i was training her to be an inside dog, not an outside one.


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## zorba (Mar 26, 2009)

I have had both inside and outside dogs in my life and the inside dogs (pomeranian, shitzus) were the ones I had a connection with. The outside dogs (Irish Wolfhounds and German Sheppards) were when I was a kid and we liked them when we were out there with them, but for the most part, they didn't get much interaction with us. Looking back now, that makes me feel bad. 

As a mature (meaning older haha) pet owner I got a pug because a. they are cute as hell in so many ways, but b. they were bred to be companion dogs and love their humans. I wanted a little guy who I could spend time with and train, exercise and care for, but also one who wanted to hang with me. 

Right now, I am with a broken leg staying with my sister. When she goes to work (only 2 days a week) the dogs (another pug and a shitzu) are out in the kennel because I simply cannot wrangle them for potty breaks like I would need to with these crutches and the leg. I hate it when Billy is out there...I miss him. 

Plus, it isn't like he and the other dogs are out there romping around having a gay old time the entire time...they just fiddle around for awhile, sleep and when they are awake they sit at the gate and look towards the house to see when a human is going to come get them. Once they get inside they are so happy and then they really start having a good time...it is always by your feet or around you. 

Dogs are different things to different people regardless of their size. It is very situational and I don't think any way is the right way or the only way.

Just my experiences anyway...


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## LoveMyBirdDog (Apr 3, 2009)

Some advice.

If you decide to leave your pup out during the day. Which is fine as long as it has water and shelter. I would make sure you build him a sandbox. Labs love to dig. I can promise you that when you get home you will have multiple huge craters in your yard if you don't teach him that he has his own special place to dig. 

Hide toys and chewies in the sandbox for him to find. Keep it fun and switch it up. Even if your yard is puppy proof you Lab will want to dig. It gets worse as they get older. When he is really small he will dig small holes, as he gets bigger... so will the holes. 

My puppy is almost 9 months and he can dig a hole as big as him in about 5 minutes.


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## nikkilugi (Mar 11, 2009)

Xeph said:


> Curious, what state are you in nikki?


I grew up in very rural Kansas in farming country. We lived many miles away from even a town with a grocery store - lol. Try being a teenager without even a fast food joint within 50 miles, lol. Tough!


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## BobSD (Feb 1, 2008)

Was an interesting thread, and very good points were made on both sides of the issue! I will like the opportunity to just comment on what impressed my simple brain the most. Glade that Ron did not feel this thread was too over board with negativity

The best comment was and who is always on my best top ten list to read her comments is the darling of DF the gracious "DarkMoon". And she has come down on me also when needed. She stated something to the affect and it will be your dog coming out of nowhere when I am taking my dog for a walk etc, how true that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have the problem here and two labs that are kept in the back yard every now and then get out and want to KILL my min-schnauzers if they catch us out for a walk. No problem I carry a ..........n!

There was a dog PB mix that was set on fire, and did not make it, she even wiggled her tail at the vets that was trying to save her in so much pain. This can happen to any dog left out side with no one home, but they are just dogs, not human, sorry I cannot buy that one!

I really appreciate where the majority of folks on this site are coming from I never really have anything to add because they covered everything.

Rosemaryninja had some very good advise must add


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## bacchus (Jun 5, 2009)

GSDGAL said:


> Oh but you sound terribly ignorant compared to all these learned folk. Honestly you should build your dog a separate house, equipped with automatic waterer (with added electrolytes of course), velvet cushions, don't forget the air conditioning and adequate ventilation, he needs a live in nanny for those hours when you're not at home, so he never learns to be alone and how to cope with that. And when the nanny goes to the toilet, which nannies inevitably do (idiots) he'll need a plasma screen Tv with inbuilt dvd and sound system, so that he can watch Lassie all day long, but never the same movie twice, because heaven forbid he get bored. He'll need a nutritionist on site, to advise him constantly on his organic raw food diet. Oh and don't forget to get him castrated, we couldn't possibly have a person like YOU breeding inferior puppies destined for shelters everywhere.
> seriously everyone needs to relax, I'm sure she's quite confident in herself as a dog owner and knows what her dog needs. Hell my dogs live outside....arrest me. you could probably start to let him out now for half the day, if you're confident you've picked everything harmful up, there shouldn't be a problem.


Finally someone who doesn't carry a Yorkie around in his purse. Thanks. Apparently no one properly trains there dogs anymore.



RonE said:


> Here, as promised, is my personal solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like your solution...i may do something similar. Our fence is 10 feet tall...so unless i bought a super dog he ain't jumping it. Dig under it maybe but he hasn't started digging yet.



KaseyT said:


> Would you only let your child inside for sleep? Labs thrive on companionship. When the family in inside watching TV or whatever, you dog will be desperate to be with you, not outside alone. It is not a hunting machine to be forgotten about when not working.



Agreed. He is always inside when we are home for the most part. Kenneling him indoors while you are gone 8 hours to work is not the definition of being with the owner. That to me is miserable. I don't care how much of a "den" animal they are.


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## InkedMarie (Mar 11, 2009)

bacchus said:


> He is allowed inside while we are home for play and sleep. Once he is full grown he will only be allowed inside for sleep. Play will be outside. So he does need to be house broken. He has had a few accidents in the house when we first got him but we watch him like a hawk now and he gives us just alittle warning before going...i usually catch him in time.
> 
> !


While I don't agree with dogs being left outside all day, it's your dog, your choice but you need to make sure that you have adequate shelter for him, you need to have water accessible to him at all times. You need to supply him with stuff to do while he's outside, so he's not bored...things like stuffed Kongs, toys where you hide treats inside, I saw in a catalog that there's a toy that spits out a treat every so often (you set the timer). I like Ron's setup...years ago, a neighbor had a garage that was heated, connected to the garage was a kennel similar to Ron's with a dog door so the dogs could be inside or outside, whatever they wanted. I think this is a great set up as well.
In what I quoted above, I have to ask, why, when he is full grown, will he only be allowed inside to sleep? If you want to leave him outside when you're at work, that's your choice but IMO, when you're home from work, he should be inside, becoming a well socialized member of your family.


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## bacchus (Jun 5, 2009)

InkedMarie said:


> While I don't agree with dogs being left outside all day, it's your dog, your choice but you need to make sure that you have adequate shelter for him, you need to have water accessible to him at all times. You need to supply him with stuff to do while he's outside, so he's not bored...things like stuffed Kongs, toys where you hide treats inside, I saw in a catalog that there's a toy that spits out a treat every so often (you set the timer). I like Ron's setup...years ago, a neighbor had a garage that was heated, connected to the garage was a kennel similar to Ron's with a dog door so the dogs could be inside or outside, whatever they wanted. I think this is a great set up as well.
> In what I quoted above, I have to ask, why, when he is full grown, will he only be allowed inside to sleep? If you want to leave him outside when you're at work, that's your choice but IMO, when you're home from work, he should be inside, becoming a well socialized member of your family.


The dog is inside about 6 hours during week days and more on the weekend. Our back yard has a 10 foot wooden fence and a 500 square foot COVERED back porch. I just didn't want to crate him 4 hours at a time. He ends up peeing or pooing himself and you have a really unhappy dog. Rowdy is alittle over 4 months old now and I crate him from morning to lunch and then after lunch i let him have the backyard. Of course there is plenty of water (and why i should even need to make that clear is ridiculous), plenty of shade and plenty of toys. So far he hasn't gotten into much except he likes to tear up the one shrub we have back there. 

GSDGAL: The only rude people I see here are the ones forcefully giving me there opinion. You sound much more sane. My family owns 7000 acres of land(i don't live on it) and that is where i get my farm mentality when it comes to dogs. Rowdy is going to be a half inside half outside dog. He is very happy with the setup he has going now. I want to get him a kiddie pool to swim around it too. He loves the water.

All that said: To post such a simple question as to when a lab might be somewhat trustworthy to leave running around in the back yard and to get NOTHING but RUDE opinions back leaves me never needing to come back to dogforums for anything. I didn't realize 95% of everyone here were the city folk types carrying Yorkie's around in there purses. Thanks!


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## Tofu_pup (Dec 8, 2008)

I quite like the set up that RonE posted.
I too, grew up in the country where most every dog was an outside or outside/inside dog. My GSDs were outside dogs once my father married(wife thought they shed too much).
My only suggestions:
Bring 'im in when it gets too cold. My GSDs had the garage during the winter. The sandbox is a great idea if you don't want craters in your yard. 
And to answer your original question, I'd say that six months is the time I'd start trusting a puppy as an outside dog provided your offer plenty of stimulation, etc.


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

Why would anyone have an outside dog? I've never understood it. Is it that they don't want to be bothered by the dog for most of the time that they're home? (In that case, they shouldn't be getting a dog IMO.) Is it that they're worried the dog will have accidents in the house? I think this is extremely rare and not the end of the world among adult dogs. It just seems like there are zero advantages to it.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

And outside dog... is not a dog that will ALWAYS live outside, people tend to think the worst of it when it comes to dogs.

Think of it this way..
Imagine an indoor dog, that is taken out occasionally for walks and stretching out, maybe for a vacation and a good road trip.

Now imagine an outdoors dog, that is taken IN occasionally during very hot days, when food time arrives, some good ole family time and play (dogs ALSO need a time for themselves,this you already know).

It's not that bad when you think of it that way.
My dogs**note, EXCEPT THE PUPPY i have** are out most of the time,they like it better outside in my backyard because they don't have to be still, they want to play alot with eachother and in rough ways.
Now... if they did that inside, they would break things, hurt themselves, and probably hurt the family too, for instance, Apollo once broke a glass vase, and the kitchen turned to be a danger zone, but it was an accident, thing that can happen both inside, and outside.

It gets very hot here (over 90f) but dogs have acclimated well to the extreame heat, it's just evolution, this does not mean that a dog can survive without water and shed, things that are vital for any living thing on the earth.

However, my backyard is like a giant kennel, large walls and fences, an inprogress orange tree that will provide natural shed in the following years, a little pool, and water, and Apollos hole, which he dug and now loves to be in there when he is outside.

I do not like when people go on comparing humans babies and dogs, the animal instinct and supervision is probably hundreds of time better than a humans instinct and supervision, they don't require the same cares also.

If a dog sleeps outside(in a kennel, or fenced yard) it is o.k,i say it because i have had my dogs sleep outside MANY times in my backyard because it gets very cool outside in the nights,and nothing bad has happened to my dogs in their outside life.

I have an aunt that works for the ''Caliente:casino, horse races, and natural welfare protecting society'' in Tijuana Baja California,she has 15 dogs in her house, 5 which are fosters, and 4 more live outside all the time while the little ones stay inside.

She is an expert dog trainer and behaviourist, and former xoloscuintle breeder, she knows what she is talking about when it comes to dogs, and she says that dogs will survive happily if kept outside RACIONALY.

Just my opinion


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Bonn1997 said:


> Why would anyone have an outside dog? I've never understood it. Is it that they don't want to be bothered by the dog for most of the time that they're home? (In that case, they shouldn't be getting a dog IMO.) Is it that they're worried the dog will have accidents in the house? I think this is extremely rare and not the end of the world among adult dogs. It just seems like there are zero advantages to it.


A friend of mine has 12 Siberian Husky's that she keeps in kennels outside at all times. These are racing bred Sled Dogs.

Would YOU want 12 35-60 pound sled dogs in YOUR house?

Her dogs are not pets, they are purely working dogs, and they do not want to cuddle with you on the couch, they would prefer to kill and devour her cats, and rip up her carpeting.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

Keechak said:


> A friend of mine has 12 Siberian Husky's that she keeps in kennels outside at all times. These are racing bred Sled Dogs.
> 
> Would YOU want 12 35-60 pound sled dogs in YOUR house?
> 
> Her dogs are not pets, they are purely working dogs, and they do not want to cuddle with you on the couch, they would prefer to kill and devour her cats, and rip up her carpeting.


Excuse me, but a Siberian that works, and is not family friendly, or is purely for sled racing is not a quality Husky.

Siberians were bred to be fast, strong, working dogs, but very sociable,and family dog/pet, saying that a sled pulling dog isn't a pet because they are racers is not very humane...

Just my opinion, and what i have learned from other Siberian Mushers.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

> Excuse me, but a Siberian that works, and is not family friendly, or is purely for sled racing is not a quality Husky.


Many people with working Huskies would disagree with you


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## Pepper (Jan 27, 2008)

> A friend of mine has 12 Siberian Husky's that she keeps in kennels outside at all times. These are racing bred Sled Dogs.
> 
> Her dogs are not pets, they are purely working dogs, and they do not want to cuddle with you on the couch, they would prefer to kill and devour her cats, and rip up her carpeting.





> Excuse me, but a Siberian that works, and is not family friendly, or is purely for sled racing is not a quality Husky.
> 
> Siberians were bred to be fast, strong, working dogs, but very sociable,and family dog/pet, saying that a sled pulling dog isn't a pet because they are racers is not very humane...


It really does depend on the individual dog. If the lady never let her dogs in doors, or spent any time with them, then they probably won't know how to behave...If the huskies were bred to race and work, and nothing more, then that's what they will do if they haven't been cuddled up to our "loved on".

Same with a farm herding dog. If he stays outside and is never with the family, and his only job has ever been to protect/herd the livestock, then that's what he'll do. But labs I think are a little different, as they are only retrievers, not herders/protectors/or racers. 

Their are a lot of different types of mushers here. Mainly those that care about their dogs on a more personal level, and those that just use them for racing. Most of the huskies in our shelter prefer to be outside(shelter has dog houses set up with chains that cant get tangled) they don't know how to act inside, and they don't like to be inside, they want to run, run, and run some more. Some adjust to the indoors, but a lot would rather spend their time outside. It depends on how they were raised in the first place. But labs are not racing huskies, yes they may enjoy the outdoors, but they enjoy being with their family..huskies can be quite independent and like to do things for themselves(not saying they are all like that)


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

this is silly...my dogs do obedience and agility mostly and have never been inside, we have a very close bond and they are well adjusted obedient and well mannered dogs, dogs didn't evolve to spend all day in the den.....


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

Keechak said:


> A friend of mine has 12 Siberian Husky's that she keeps in kennels outside at all times. These are racing bred Sled Dogs.
> 
> Would YOU want 12 35-60 pound sled dogs in YOUR house?
> 
> Her dogs are not pets, they are purely working dogs, and they do not want to cuddle with you on the couch, they would prefer to kill and devour her cats, and rip up her carpeting.


OK, then insert the word "pet" before the word "dog" in my previous post, as I really was talking about only pet dogs. If I were in that person's shoes, the Husky's could stay outside but I'd still want at least one indoor pet dog.



GSDGAL said:


> this is silly...my dogs do obedience and agility mostly and have never been inside, we have a very close bond and they are well adjusted obedient and well mannered dogs, dogs didn't evolve to spend all day in the den.....


They didn't evolve to be fenced in either. Does your yard have a fence? Very little that we humans or our pets do nowadays represents what we evolved to do (beyond the basics like eat, sleep, reproduce). I think there's a faulty assumption here that people or animals are always "better off" doing what they evolved to do. Sometimes, surely they are but other times I doubt it. Just as one example, we definitely didn't evolve to give away our children. Nevertheless, in some scenarios, putting a kid up for adoption is in everyone's best interests. Or we didn't evolve to travel via airplane but it's still the best way for me to get from Alabama to NY to see my family. 



Erick Aguilar said:


> And outside dog... is not a dog that will ALWAYS live outside, people tend to think the worst of it when it comes to dogs.
> 
> Think of it this way..
> Imagine an indoor dog, that is taken out occasionally for walks and stretching out, maybe for a vacation and a good road trip.
> ...


Well separating the indoor-outdoor continuum into two or three categories is obviously an oversimplification. Nevertheless, when a dog spends a lot of time alone outdoors but also spends time, including social time, indoors, I think the term "indoor/outdoor dog" is usually used rather than "outdoor dog."


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

Bonn1997 said:


> OK, then insert the word "pet" before the word "dog" in my previous post, as I really was talking about only pet dogs. If I were in that person's shoes, the Husky's could stay outside but I'd still want at least one indoor pet dog.
> 
> 
> They didn't evolve to be fenced in either. Does your yard have a fence? Very little that we humans or our pets do nowadays represents what we evolved to do (beyond the basics like eat, sleep, reproduce). I think there's a faulty assumption here that people or animals are always "better off" doing what they evolved to do. Sometimes, surely they are but other times I doubt it. (In many cases, what we've evolved to do is unprovable anyway.)


No it doesn't have dog proof fencing...i live on 18 acres of horse fenced land, yeah we have kennels and runs but the dogs only go in there at night, the rest of the time they spend in the yard. And I think it's rude and disrespectful to just throw out a generalised statement saying that all dogs should be inside and better off inside...where's your proof? My dogs would disagree with you, they love nothing more than sniffing around, rolling in the grass and sun, digging massive holes and running around all day. And yet they still have a balanced mind and love me and have eyes for only me


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

GSDGAL said:


> No it doesn't have dog proof fencing...i live on 18 acres of horse fenced land, yeah we have kennels and runs but the dogs only go in there at night, the rest of the time they spend in the yard. And I think it's rude and disrespectful to just throw out a generalised statement saying that all dogs should be inside and better off inside...where's your proof? My dogs would disagree with you, they love nothing more than sniffing around, rolling in the grass and sun, digging massive holes and running around all day. And yet they still have a balanced mind and love me and have eyes for only me


Well I do volunteer work for my local humane society and they've spoken to us about research on the topic. I haven't directly read the research because keeping my girls outside was never something I'd consider. However, they've told us that outdoor dogs live shorter lives and are more likely to be given up to shelters. I believe a good dog owner can give the dog plenty of time to do all the things outside you're describing. I should clarify, though, that I don't think there's anything inherently good about being indoors. Rather it's the amount of time you spend with your pet dogs that matters. If you're spending several hours a day with your dogs outside, then in my opinion that's good enough, although it's probably an extremely rare scenario for outdoor dogs. Your situation with no fence in 18 acres is also extremely rare. It doesn't sound like your situation is remotely close to what the OP was asking about or most people here are discussing.


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## Erick Aguilar (Jun 9, 2008)

Xeph said:


> Many people with working Huskies would disagree with you


Always on the negative side.

You might be right, but also, many people people with working Huskies would agree with me.



Bonn1997 said:


> OK, then insert the word "pet" before the word "dog" in my previous post, as I really was talking about only pet dogs. If I were in that person's shoes, the Husky's could stay outside but I'd still want at least one indoor pet dog.
> 
> 
> They didn't evolve to be fenced in either. Does your yard have a fence? Very little that we humans or our pets do nowadays represents what we evolved to do (beyond the basics like eat, sleep, reproduce). I think there's a faulty assumption here that people or animals are always "better off" doing what they evolved to do. Sometimes, surely they are but other times I doubt it. Just as one example, we definitely didn't evolve to give away our children. Nevertheless, in some scenarios, putting a kid up for adoption is in everyone's best interests. Or we didn't evolve to travel via airplane but it's still the best way for me to get from Alabama to NY to see my family.
> ...


This is why, big dogs will never enter in a full indoor life either (which is what we are talking about, big breeds and outdoors)
It's a circle, you can't have an indoors dog without it being also an outdoors dogs and viceversa, you need one to make the other one work.


I'm speaking as if we were talking about a very healthy dog,that needs to run, play, socialize.


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

Bonn1997 said:


> Well I do volunteer work for my local humane society and they've spoken to us about research on the topic. I haven't directly read the research because keeping my girls outside was never something I'd consider. However, they've told us that outdoor dogs live shorter lives and are more likely to be given up to shelters. I believe a good dog owner can give the dog plenty of time to do all the things outside you're describing. I should clarify, though, that I don't think there's anything inherently good about being indoors. Rather it's the amount of time you spend with your pet dogs that matters. If you're spending several hours a day with your dogs outside, then in my opinion that's good enough, although it's probably an extremely rare scenario for outdoor dogs. Your situation with no fence in 18 acres is also extremely rare. It doesn't sound like your situation is remotely close to what the OP was asking about or most people here are discussing.


actually until 2 years ago i lived in a residential block for 3 years, with 4 dogs, 3 of which passed away 2 years ago at the ripe old ages of 16, 16 and 19 I my mother had these dogs before i was born and they became mine, they were never inside and were always looked after brilliantly, they got a walk daily and in their latter years just hung around, sleeping in their kennels. Again i state, you have to proof that dogs prefer living indoors, because you've never given yours the option, and don't use rescues as a reference they are usually pretty well OFF the mark


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Erick Aguilar said:


> Excuse me, but a Siberian that works, and is not family friendly, or is purely for sled racing is not a quality Husky.


I didn't say her dogs weren't friendly, just that they would probably eat cats. Most of her dogs give lots of licks and such. although I did get bitten by one of them while I was holding the gag line, she was telling me "GET OUT OF THE WAY!!"



Erick Aguilar said:


> *Siberians were bred to be* fast, strong, working dogs, but very sociable,*and family dog/pet*, saying that a sled pulling dog isn't a pet because they are racers is not very humane...


I agree with the others but show me where Siberian Huskys were bred to be family pets.

Is it inhumane to have a dog that's not a pet?



Erick Aguilar said:


> Just my opinion, and what i have learned from other Siberian Mushers.


You said "other" mushers. are you a musher?


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

GSDGAL said:


> actually until 2 years ago i lived in a residential block for 3 years, with 4 dogs, 3 of which passed away 2 years ago at the ripe old ages of 16, 16 and 19 I my mother had these dogs before i was born and they became mine, they were never inside and were always looked after brilliantly, they got a walk daily and in their latter years just hung around, sleeping in their kennels. Again i state, you have to proof that dogs prefer living indoors, because you've never given yours the option, and don't use rescues as a reference they are usually pretty well OFF the mark


I can't prove what they prefer until they learn how to speak English and put their preferences in writing. That said, the research that outdoor dogs (not rescue dogs but outdoor dogs) live longer is good enough for me and I hold it in higher regard than anyone's personal anecdotes. If you go to Google and search, you'll see plenty of articles indicating that keeping your dog outside all the time is a good way to shorten his/her lifespan. I want to be clear, though: I'm talking about most people's scenarios. Yours, I've already indicated, is extremely uncommon.



Erick Aguilar said:


> Always on the negative side.
> 
> You might be right, but also, many people people with working Huskies would agree with me.
> 
> ...


I agree with all this. I'm just saying it's bad for a dog based on what I've read to be spending 100% or close to 100% of his/her time outdoors. By no means am I saying 100% of the time should be indoors though.


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

i'm sorry but most everyone I know has outside dogs, and these dogs are well cared for and many are in house yards and not free range like mine, and yet they remain faithful happy and healthy companions. Just because you choose to keep your dogs in the house (which is completely your prerogative) does not mean hat everyone in the world should follow suit. It's your opinion and I believe you are wrong


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## txcollies (Oct 23, 2007)

my conformation, obedience, THERAPY, rally, freestyle and soon to be agility and tracking dogs are outside dogs. Inside everyonce in awhile and that's it.

It's never once affected our relationship, training, or manners one bit - or our scores. ;-)


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

GSDGAL said:


> i'm sorry but most everyone I know has outside dogs, and these dogs are well cared for and many are in house yards and not free range like mine, and yet they remain faithful happy and healthy companions. Just because you choose to keep your dogs in the house (which is completely your prerogative) does not mean hat everyone in the world should follow suit. It's your opinion and I believe you are wrong


There's really nothing left to discuss. I just want to be clear though that the research on life span cannot be considered "opinion"


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

well tell that to all my friends who's dogs all made it to over 17 and lived happily outside, this is by the way at least 10 different medium and small sized breeds...Or does living inside make a dog immortal?


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

GSDGAL said:


> well tell that to all my friends who's dogs all made it to over 17 and lived happily outside, this is by the way at least 10 different medium and small sized breeds...Or does living inside make a dog immortal?


I have lots of friends who smoked all their lives and still lived long lives. These anecdotes have to be given a lower priority than carefully controlled research. If your doctor recommended a new medication and you asked if the medication was safe, how would you feel if he said "I have ten friends who have used it without any problems?" Compare that with how you'd feel if he said "an extensive body of scientific research indicates that the drug is free of serious side effects." Your "immortal" comment is disrespectful. I have not intentionally grossly misstated any of your views.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Bonn1997 said:


> There's really nothing left to discuss. I just want to be clear though that the research on life span cannot be considered "opinion"


Does the research include ALL outside dogs including street dogs and "yard ornaments"? or does it specify a standard of living that they follow?

obviously the outside dogs being discussed by GSDgal and I are kept outside in a better standard of living than the average street dog or "Lawn ornament" dog. And as such they would not be accurately represented in such research.


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

Keechak said:


> Does the research include ALL outside dogs including street dogs and "yard ornaments"? or does it specify a standard of living that they follow?
> 
> obviously the outside dogs being discussed by GSDgal and I are kept living in a better standard of living than the average street dog or "Lawn ornament" dog. And as such they would not be accurately representation in such research.


I don't know what you mean by street dogs (strays? obviously these wouldn't be included in research studies--the owner volunteers to have the dogs be in research studies and/or vets keep records). I've never heard the phrase lawn ornament to describe a dog either. Can your clarify your question?


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Bonn1997 said:


> I don't know what you mean by street dogs (strays? obviously these wouldn't be included in research studies--the owner volunteers to have the dogs be in research studies and/or vets keep records). I've never heard the phrase lawn ornament to describe a dog either. Can your clarify your question?


When I say "yard ornament" I mean a dog that somebody buys and then the dog gets to be too much for them so it is sent to live outside simply so that the owners never have to "deal" with it ever again (except feeding). 

The "dogs with a standard of living" that I spoke of are dogs that live outside, but their owners set aside time everyday to spend time with the dogs, train the dogs, give them vet care, work with them, clean their kennels/yard, groom them, ect.


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

GSDGAL said:


> i'm sorry but most everyone I know has outside dogs, and these dogs are well cared for and many are in house yards and not free range like mine, and yet they remain faithful happy and healthy companions. Just because you choose to keep your dogs in the house (which is completely your prerogative) does not mean hat everyone in the world should follow suit. It's your opinion and I believe you are wrong


Also, I thought more about your comment about dogs evolving to live outside, as it is a good point. I'd add though that dogs are highly social animals who also evolved to spend the bulk of their time with other animals, including their pack leader (which should be you IMO). I guess you have to decide which evolutionary force would be less damaging to violate: spending the majority of the time indoors but in a highly social environment or spending the bulk of the time outdoors but in isolation in a small, fenced in yard. (Again, I'm talking about the average outdoor dog's experience.)



Keechak said:


> When I say "yard ornament" I mean a dog that somebody buys and then the dog gets to be too much for them so it is sent to live outside simply so that the owners never have to "deal" with it ever again (except feeding).
> 
> The "dogs with a standard of living" that I spoke of are dogs that live outside, but their owners set aside time everyday to spend time with the dogs, train the dogs, give them vet care, work with them, clean their kennels/yard, groom them, ect.


I assume all those dogs would be averaged in in the sample. I don't think it bodes well for the outdoor dog side of the argument if there's a disproportionately number of neglectful owners in the outdoor group. In most circumstances (and this part is just my opinion), I believe that neglect or at least indifference toward the dog is the reason the dog is kept outdoors. I've never said having an outdoor dog cannot be done in a manner that's rewarding to the dog. I just think it's so uncommon among outdoor dogs that I would never advise someone seeking help on a discussion forum to keep their dog solely outdoors.


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

I disagree. Where is the study that says the majority of people that keep their dogs outside don't care for them and treat them on the same standard as an indoor dog...this is a gross generalisation to assume that the general public that chooses to keep their dogs outside are neglectful owners...


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

Bonn1997 said:


> I assume all those dogs would be averaged in in the sample. I don't think it bodes well for the outdoor dog side of the argument if there's a disproportionately number of neglectful owners in the outdoor group. In most circumstances (and this part is just my opinion), I believe that neglect or at least indifference toward the dog is the reason the dog is kept outdoors. I've never said having an outdoor dog cannot be done in a manner that's rewarding to the dog. I just think it's so uncommon among outdoor dogs that I would never advise someone seeking help on a discussion forum to keep their dog solely outdoors.


I was under the impression you thought it was cruel or inhumane to keep a dog outside no matter the circumstance.


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## bacchus (Jun 5, 2009)

Bonn1997 said:


> There's really nothing left to discuss. I just want to be clear though that the research on life span cannot be considered "opinion"


The lifespan arguement is laughable. Do you eat an American diet? So you are telling me you keep your dogs indoors so they will live longer while you suck down cheeseburgers? Just wondering? 

I know alittle harsh: These ARE dogs we are talking about and not humans. I LOVE my lab puppy. He is awesome. Just to be clear he gets 6 hours a day in the house and the rest outside in the shade with plenty of water and toys and plenty safe. We train for 1-2 hours a day in the evenings after work. This dog is so happy I wish i could calm him down sometimes. LOL.

Man people are more opinionated about dogs than I thought. If people would get this passionate about politics we might be able to fix this country!


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

hey Bacchus did you see the pic of my little lab pup, go to the thread in the general dog forums called My new lab puppy...oh what's you boys name?


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## bacchus (Jun 5, 2009)

GSDGAL said:


> hey Bacchus did you see the pic of my little lab pup, go to the thread in the general dog forums called My new lab puppy...oh what's you boys name?


She is GORGEOUS! We named him Rowdy and the names fits him perfectly. Just snapped this pic for you.


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## GSDGAL (May 27, 2009)

bacchus said:


> She is GORGEOUS! We named him Rowdy and the names fits him perfectly. Just snapped this pic for you.


Oh i just want to cuddle him forever...he's still got a lot of growing to do LOL


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## bacchus (Jun 5, 2009)

GSDGAL said:


> Oh i just want to cuddle him forever...he's still got a lot of growing to do LOL


He is 17 weeks and probably about 32-35 lbs i guess. He has a way to go...his dad was 85 lbs and mom about 75lbs. He is ridiculously smart and has a great nose. I almost want to train him for deer tracking instead of a bird retriever.


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## Keechak (Aug 10, 2008)

bacchus said:


> I almost want to train him for deer tracking instead of a bird retriever.


I say, both!


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## Tankstar (Dec 30, 2006)

I would be carful about leaving him out alone at a young age. a puppy may get in to anything and everything. If you have close neighboors, they might get annoyed by a young puppy crying/barking to find its "mom" (owners). Not saying it is crying or barking. I would really start off slowly doing this, so its not just thrown in his face all at once.

Nothing wrong with a out door dog. Aslong as they have good understanding owners. And dont just toss him out back when the cutness wears off. But a owner who like you has a goal for the dog. Hunting is your goal, which is awsome, the dog will LOVE it and Im sure being a lab will thrive on it. Aslong as a dog is fed, watered, given shade and a cozy place to sleep, socialized and excersised, I see no issue with a outdoor dog. Would I ever have one? very unlikley, as I do enjoy my dogs inside. My dog would never stay out by himself, he gets lonley after 15mins outside alone, and begs to come back in haha.Maybe if I had more of a "leave me alone" breed, like a great pyr, then I would consider keeping the dog out alot longer then Blaze, my current dog stays outside alone.


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## Bonn1997 (Dec 17, 2008)

GSDGAL said:


> I disagree. Where is the study that says the majority of people that keep their dogs outside don't care for them and treat them on the same standard as an indoor dog...this is a gross generalisation to assume that the general public that chooses to keep their dogs outside are neglectful owners...


I was very clear that that was only my opinion. I was merely taking the research finding--that outdoor dogs live shorter--and speculating as to why.



bacchus said:


> The lifespan arguement is laughable. Do you eat an American diet? So you are telling me you keep your dogs indoors so they will live longer while you suck down cheeseburgers? Just wondering?
> 
> I know alittle harsh: These ARE dogs we are talking about and not humans. I LOVE my lab puppy. He is awesome. Just to be clear he gets 6 hours a day in the house and the rest outside in the shade with plenty of water and toys and plenty safe. We train for 1-2 hours a day in the evenings after work. This dog is so happy I wish i could calm him down sometimes. LOL.
> 
> Man people are more opinionated about dogs than I thought. If people would get this passionate about politics we might be able to fix this country!


Actually I'm very careful with what I eat and I have roughly 10% bod fat. This is a forum where people care immensely about the well-being of animals and will do everything they can to convey what has been established as healthiest for your animal. 

6 hours a day in the house is not bad, though. And it sounds like you're spending a good amount of time outside with the dog too. I think you do rank dogs lower than I do--I've never found myself having to justify my decisions by saying "they're just dogs--not humans." I rank my dogs as just one small notch below humans. Objectively, I think "we're just humans" would probably be more accurate because I'm not at all convinced the average human contributes more good to this world and less harm than the average dog or animal in general. 

That's a bit of a tangent though. From your description, it sounds like you're doing a good job as a dog owner. I still do think the dog would benefit from more time inside with you but it also sounds like you're doing much more for your dog than the average dog owner.


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## SweetJeannie (Jul 7, 2009)

I just wanted to say good luck with your puppy! I'm sure he will be a great dog, regardless of keeping him inside our outside. The fact that you came here and asked about it showed that you do care for his well being. Good luck!!


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