# Puppy barking to initiate play?



## Veronis (Oct 30, 2010)

Hey all,

I have a rescue dog, Nero, who's pushing about 5 months old now. He was neutered 2 days ago, but the contents of this thread reflect behavior that began before the neutering. He's equal parts Harrier, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard, and Beagle.

I've read several threads on the forum, but wondered if anyone had advice based on my dog, as I still have specific questions to which I can't find answers. Maybe someone knows how to remedy my issue?

1. He barks when he wants to play (he's usually in a play bow), or during play (e.g. I WANT THAT TOY IN YOUR HAND!!). I've read that somehow only humans are supposed to initiate play. Should I never initiate play when he's overtly requesting play? He needs to get energy out, but if we start playing now that he's barking, isn't that teaching him that barking at us gets attention? How do we do this? Once he gets into play mode it seems to be too late to be the initiators.

2. He responds to Cesar's TSST two-finger touch to side of neck or hind. However, he barks at us when we correct him for biting during play - what are we doing wrong? I assume at this point Cesar's correction has no place during playtime and some other method will have to be used to stop play biting, I just don't know what. How do we let him know, without punishing him which I am against, that biting even during play is NOT ok?

He does not bark at corrections in any other situation - if he's lying around and we pet him, occasionally he will try to bite/mouth our hand - when we correct him in THIS case (same method), he generally settles.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

Well, of course, during play time, he's excited and won't react to corrections as calmly as he will at other times.

That said, most people on this forum don't recommend Cesar's methods. I don't want to get into a discussion on that, just wanted to let you know! 

I don't think there's harm in playing with your pup when he initiates the play. BUT, you don't have to do it all the time. For instance, if you are in a playing mood, and he invites you to play, fine. But, if he wants to play, and you're reading or doing something else, then ignore him. It won't teach him that barking always gets your attention. Dogs have different barks: wanting to play, alert barking, barking because of pain. You'll get to know the different sounds of the barks. My point is, he knows he's asking you to play, and you can say yes if you want to, or ignore him if you don't.

When he mouths, nips, bites, etc: there's a very good sticky "The Bite Stops Here" on the forum; I'd read that for starters, but basically:
- when he bites, nips, etc. make a loud yelp or say ouch. This lets him know you weren't happy with that.
- if he keeps at it, make the noise again, and then walk away from him for 20 seconds or so. More than that and he'll forget why you left, he has a short memory.

Basically, it just repeating this over and over. I know, it's frustrating. But, puppies like human contact. And, if you leave every time he bites, he'll learn that he should stop biting. BUT, you have to be consistent and do it EVERY time. Otherwise, he'll keep up the biting because he knows that sometimes he can get away with it! 

Don't underestimate the time it can take for this to get better. It's weeks, not days! Yes, it's a hassle to keep leaving the area, but it works!


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

No...

1. The pup can ask for play at any time. You can chose to agree or not and for how long. Under all circumstances, you need to create the 'rules' and to follow them consistently. When he initiates, then you can enforce the rule that he has to sit and stop barking, otherwise you will say "Oh-Oh" or will Yelp, turn your back for 10 sec., and eventually leave him alone in a time-out. You don't want to punish him with a "No!" , but more want to give him an instructive reprimand (Ian Dunbar's phrase) to teach him the rules and etiquette of play.. etc.

2. It is OK for him to bark once or twice, politely (If it is OK with you). But it should not be out of control. Although my dog can be a pest with other people, he will bark once, then wait, then bark again at me when he wants to play. If I tell him that I don't want to, then he will stop and go lie down. And, when I put him in the backyard for potty, he will bark once to tell me he's through. I recognized this and rewarded it when he was a puppy.

3. Forget Cesar for play biting and Bite Inhibition. Read the Sticky: The Bite Stops Here... it is a much more effective approach, much faster, and more consistent. Nero is barking because he is playing, and you are communicating that play is wrong. Instead, you want to instruct him how to play, using Bite Inhibition.

Bite Inhibition Summary - 
A. Yelp when Nero nips. He will startle. Praise him. 
B. He will nip again. Yelp again. He should startle, praise him. 
C. He may nip again (if you pay attention, the nip should be a little more gentle than the first one). Yelp again and turn your back for 10 sec.
D. If he barks or play bows, or comes around to face you, then he is apologizing. Accept it with praise.
E. He may lick you and then start nipping. Yelp again. If he is gentle, go back to Step A. If he is not gentle, leave the area for 30 sec. Effectively, you are trying to give him a time-out, but you are leaving, not him.
F. If he nips you again, Yelp and stop playing (for 10 mins)
G. He may not learn the first time, but you should notice significant progress the next morning. Repeat the steps, if needed. And, by the third morning, you should happier with his progress. 

Read the sticky for more detail. This is a very powerful approach for most dogs. But, everyone needs to learn to 'yelp.'

One other point, he is ~ half his adult weight at this age, and he is teething, so he needs something to chew on, like a hard rubber bone or a Kong.


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## JuneBud (Feb 17, 2010)

Actually, if you are following Cesar Millan's methods, he says you should "gently but firmly" grasp your puppy's neck or head and hold until the puppy calms down and lets go of your hand. I've never tried it, but he says that's what the mother dog does when puppy bites too hard. I guess that's about the only thing I didn't try to stop my puppy's biting because I actually forgot about this method, but I would have tried it because nothing else worked very well. He actually got worse when I tried the yelp/ouch method. What worked is separating myself from him or turning my back to him when he bit, but it took a long, long time before it started to have any noticeable effect. I have a very determined and very bossy puppy. I have Cesar's book "How to Raise the Perfect Dog" and he is extremely into socialization when raising puppies and that's what I remember most about the book. 

Anyway, when my puppy wants to play and is being obnoxious about it, I make him sit or lie down first, then play with him if I have time. "They" say exercise helps to calm them down - but not always true. When we come back from a 1+ mile walk, my puppy is even more wound up and obnoxious, but after about 15-20 minutes of zoomies after a walk (actually a trot for him) he will settle down and take a nap usually. He's 7 months old now and is constantly testing to see what he can get away with.

You are fortunate that your pup settles after a correction for mouthing when you try to pet him. You shouldn't have much of a problem controlling his play behavior with the methods described above and in the sticky on the forum.


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## lil_fuzzy (Aug 16, 2010)

Hold the puppy's head until he lets go of the hand? That doesn't even make sense. My puppy has never bitten and held any part of my body, or anyone else's. It's always just a quick nip, then jump back and play some more, maybe another nip etc. There is no way I would be able to grab him fast enough for him to associate that with that quick little nip.

My puppy doesn't respond much to 'yelping', so I would initiate play with him and let him nip and bite, and whenever he bit me too hard I would say 'ow' and then freeze for about 5-10 seconds. So basically, bite too hard = game ends for 10 seconds. Then I would continue playing with him until he did it again, and so on.

Another thing I did was when he would grab half my finger when I would hand him treats. I would say 'ow' and pull my hand back with the treat, pause for 3-5 seconds then try again. So grab finger = no treat until you can take it gently. That worked pretty fast, because he is very food motivated (most puppies are).


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## JuneBud (Feb 17, 2010)

Well, no actually, I said that wrong. He said to hold the puppy until it settles - not releases the hand. It was not a direct quote from the book. My bad. Sorry. I should be more careful, or Cesar will get an even worse reputation than he already has. That finger hold on the head/neck is the only thing I didn't try. We did get bite inhibition, but the persistent little tyrant still wants very badly to use his mouth.


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