# Ever Wish Your Dog Was Lower Maintenance?



## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

I've missed you guys. 

Sam and I are going through a challenging stage. I love the guy and have no doubt that we'll be fine, but there are just times I find myself wishing I could just relax and enjoy him and be his buddy rather than having to work so much on his training. He's growing into an amazing dog, so handsome and strong and impressive and when things click, I LOVE working with him, but then there are the times when I'm just tired of having to really be on top of him (training wise, not literally), when I wish I could relax and not have to focus so much on being a strong leader and let up on the NILIF and such. Or I realize that I really can't skip Schutzhund practice or else he's just not the same all week without the outlet he needs.

I'm very lucky that I have great trainers as part of my ScH club and one of them spoke to me this weekend when I was working really hard with him. She said, "You got the dog you need. If he was anything else, you'd be bored with him, but as it is, he demands your attention. It will make you closer and you'll never settle for anything less."

I love him for who he is and he pushes me to be better for him, but sometimes, it's a tiring process and I sometimes envy people with more laid back dogs. Then I remember how far we've come together and I see how much potential he has to just be amazing.

Have you ever wished your dog was lower maintenance or wished you could get a break? How did you work through it? It seems like in the club there are few ways people deal with it. One is to get another dog of a different breed that is more laid back that they can then spoil and treat like a pet. Another seems to be moving to more aversive methods that don't require quite as much constant work from the handler. Some only interact with their dogs as working dogs, with their dogs living in a kennel and not having a pet relationship at all. The other model I've seen is the handler simply upping their game and becoming what the dog needs, which is what I'm trying to do. Those handlers have fewer dogs and a very deep relationship with them, but their life pretty much just revolves around 1 or 2 dogs with no other hobbies or interests or sometimes even family.

Just curious to see how others handle this and sorry for the ramble!


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## Rescued (Jan 8, 2012)

yes.

/tooshort.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm not sure if I can truly relate, but I always up the exercise. If I plan to have a relaxing night, I just take Jewel for a dog play date with another playful dog or on a super long hike. That way, she is relaxed all evening and too tired to get into trouble. She is like clock work, if I wait too long to take her hiking/running on the weekend, you can see her mind looking for things to get into. She's pretty low maintenance though and I really can't complain. More exercise is my solution for everything though lol.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

She is a dream dog as long as she gets her 2-3 hours a day of off leash running. All the exercise can be tedious though and frustrating at times when she decides to chase something 2 seconds before the hike is over. Somedays I bring wine on our hikes and it's like my after work unwind.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes and no.

I have dogs now I consider low maintenance. I love them dearly.

The ones who require more of me are better for me by a mile, and my relationship with them *seems* better, too. It's not actually, mind you, but I perceive it that way fairly often because it's both more difficult and more rewarding/I can be proud of myself and the dog, where as if it's too easy I don't necessarily appreciate it as much.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

I agree with CptJack. Sometimes it is hard not to compare Remus to Duke. Duke is a dream of a dog. Despite the horrid life he lead before coming to us it took only love, a small child he worships, and a simple socialization style training class to turn everything around for him. He was with us less than a month before he was a completely different dog. He will do anything you ask of him, frequently without needing to be asked. He is just so easy (aside from a few health quirks but even those are easily managed). However my bond with him isn't that strong. I adore him I really do but I always think of him as my youngest son's dog. My youngest son is the one he follows everywhere. He mourns if my child spends the night away from our home. While I'm sure he likes me I'm not his favorite (yes I'm that sulky about it LOL). Remus is hard. He needs hours of mental and physical stimulation and even then he isn't exactly easy. I had him trained pretty well, for an adolescent, and then he hit 14months and it was like he forgot everything. Now we are back to the beginning and I am not loving it. Still he keeps me active. He is my workout buddy because he has to get out and I know it. Just looking at him makes me smile. I can't help feeling better just being around him, even when he is naughty (and I have to keep from laughing when he does things). I love the way he talks to me, my other dogs don't talk, and sings. I just have to wonder how our youngest is going to turn out. She has a wild streak in her too and has not been easy to house break at all. I'm betting her training is not going to be easy.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

d_ray said:


> I'm not sure if I can truly relate, but I always up the exercise. If I plan to have a relaxing night, I just take Jewel for a dog play date with another playful dog or on a super long hike. That way, she is relaxed all evening and too tired to get into trouble. She is like clock work, if I wait too long to take her hiking/running on the weekend, you can see her mind looking for things to get into. She's pretty low maintenance though and I really can't complain. More exercise is my solution for everything though lol.


You're dog is gorgeous, BTW...I love those markings! 

With Sam, it takes more than wearing him out physically, although that definitely helps. It also helps when I remind myself that the very qualities that wear me out about him are also the ones that make him so much fun to work with and make me love him.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> I have dogs now I consider low maintenance. I love them dearly.
> 
> The ones who require more of me are better for me by a mile, and my relationship with them *seems* better, too. It's not actually, mind you, but I perceive it that way fairly often because it's both more difficult and more rewarding/I can be proud of myself and the dog, where as if it's too easy I don't necessarily appreciate it as much.


I think this is what my training coordinator was trying to get at. She seems to think that if I had an "easy" dog (whatever that would mean in this context), I'd lose interest and wouldn't be as engaged with the dog. It's likely that if Sam were the gentle giant we'd been planning on, I'd be less involved with him beyond the usual feeding and care and he'd be spending most his time with the kids. As it is, we've considered, once Sam is fully grown and well-socialized, getting a second dog for the rest of the family because he's turned out to be more *my* dog. (Although we all love him and he loves the kids, he's just much more focused on me since I handle him.)

In just the year I've had him, I've learned a ton and he's made so much progress. I think you're absolutely right in that I appreciate our relationship all the more because it isn't easy and it has required work and that work is something we've done together.


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## Avie (Jul 10, 2011)

Sometimes I wish Mike would just relax and take it easy. 

Then I am reminded of how low maintenance he actually is. He knows his commands, listens really well, is very attentive, is not difficult at all except for one thing that's not even detrimental (he's insecure when it comes to other dogs. Just yesterday he got frightened by a chihuahua in a tutu). 

He's everything we could want. I shouldn't complain.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

packetsmom said:


> You're dog is gorgeous, BTW...I love those markings!
> 
> With Sam, it takes more than wearing him out physically, although that definitely helps. It also helps when I remind myself that the very qualities that wear me out about him are also the ones that make him so much fun to work with and make me love him.


Thanks  Since Jewel is bred to hunt, the off leash forest hikes tire her out mentally as she's always tracking or chasing something. Also, we use it as a chance to practice recall and she always has to remember to check back in with me and be conscious of my movements and whereabouts. 

I noticed a huge difference between her after an off leash romp versus her after a leash walk.

Although, we lucked out as she doesn't require intense mental stimulation.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Short answer, yes. Almost every single day.

Long answer, still yes. lol Watson is hard. I've had dogs, known dogs, worked with dogs in a shelter, and he's just a hard dog. He's high energy and very easily overstimulated by things. When he's over stimulated he's all or nothing and throws himself head first into things. If he's working with me, then it's great and he's working his heart out. Probably 70% of the time he's not working with me, and is all out trying to do whatever else it is that he wants to do. He's not the type of dog to quietly follow me around a rally or obedience ring waiting for my instructions - he's the little dog with flashy focused heeling for about 20 seconds until "OMG! I need to sniff that sign over there! And what is that dog doing?! We need to check this out. Come on, mom!!" and hitting the end of the leash with all the strength in his 45lb body. No matter how many times he hits the leash and I don't budge, he's still going to try running into the end of the leash again, just in case. 

He's one of the most stubbornly persistent dogs I've met. I probably haven't done NILF with him as well or consistently as I should have, because I've never had a dog who needed that much structure. Most dogs seem to figure out that action=consequence after a number of times, but Watson doesn't make those connections (or just doesn't care that biting means he goes in his crate, for example). I'll admit his manners can be poor sometimes, and I'm just glad he's small.

I try to remind myself that overall he's friendly with dogs and people (even if other dogs sometimes dislike him), he settles pretty well in the house (except for maybe 30min a day when he turns into demon dog), and is the sweetest best snuggler I've ever met. He's also very food motivated, and his all or nothing personality does make him a flashy obedience/agility dog when he's focused on the task, instead of the things he wants to check out. He wants to do work, it's just a matter of convincing him that my work is more rewarding than the work he makes up. I'm happier with that attitude than with a dog who didn't want to work at all. (though a super handler focused dog would be awesome!) I think he would be much happier as an actual hunting spaniel (he would sniff for things until he fell over from exhaustion), but I can't provide that type of work for now, so he needs to adapt to the type of work I can offer. 

I just really wasn't expecting him to be so difficult from about 9 months until now (20 months). My experience was dogs who were bad as young puppies, and then grew up around a year, but he has a slower timeline. He was perfect at 5-6 months old, so even during the bad months I kept saying "Oh, he'll settle down soon." Now I've realized that it will probably be years, and I just have to keep working with what I've got. If he doesn't feel like working with me today, then oh well, the treats go in the cabinet and I walk away. I think I spent too much time trying to convince him to work for me, instead of using his desire to do *something* and teaching him that it's either do something with me, or be bored.

All that to say I feel your pain. Some dogs are just easier than others, and sometimes dealing with the tough dogs is exhausting.


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## kadylady (Sep 23, 2010)

I would not categorize my dogs as high maintenance (maybe medium, Zoey a high medium) so I'm not sure how much I can relate to your situation, but as I have been doing more with them I am noticing their expectations increase, especially with Zoey who is higher of the 2, but even a little with Luke. In the past I could give them 2 good full days of activity on the weekends and they would be fine through the week with just a walk in the evenings. Now that we are more involved in agility and other training throughout the week they expect that and after maybe a day, Zoey is whining or pacing or throwing a toy at me where before she would be content to just chill in the house or outside. The more we do the more she craves it! And when I am exhausted after a long day at work and just want to crash on the couch when I get home it is irritating. But then we have a fantastic weekend like we did this weekend with 3 full days of showing Rally and Agility and her performing amazingly each and every day and it is so worth it and I try to remember than the days that I am tired. Luke is much more tolerant and has a much longer "chill period" than she does but I see how happy he is to be "working" and it gives me the motivation to get off the couch.

One thing that helps me is trying to plan out the week ahead of time. For example I have agility class Thursday so that takes care of that day, I can take them to Rally practice Tuesday night, they can handle Wednesday off in between and we will be super active on the weekend so Monday can be a light day, or I know I have to do stuff around the house on this evening so better plan for a raw bone night to keep them content or have hubby take them for a lunch time walk. Just trying to balance for my sake.

I also agree with CptJack, Zoey is a higher demand dog than Luke. I didn't start doing all these extra activites and dog sports with I know LOVE so much until I got Zoey. Luke loves doing it too but he doesn't need it. Zoey needs it.

ETA: Since we've been doing agility Zoey has become more physically fit and her endurance has increased a ton! We did 3 FULL days of showing this weekend and my husband just texted me and said why isn't she tired?! Her last class of the day on Sunday, she ran the fastest.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

No, I want an even higher maintenance dog next. I really miss Mia's first couple years. They were WILD. And fun.

Summer is the easiest dog on the planet. I appreciate her all the time.


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## d_ray (Nov 5, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> No, I want an even higher maintenance dog next. I really miss Mia's first couple years. They were WILD. And fun.
> 
> Summer is the easiest dog on the planet. I appreciate her all the time.


This!!! Jewel is extremely easy too! Maybe I was expecting more of a challenge since she is my first dog, and I don't have much to compare her to. Now I'm like "bring it on".


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

I'll admit yes, especially when Dexter was here (or even more so when Dexter AND Diesel were here). Caeda requires a fair bit of attention. I'm like Cpt Jack though, requiring more of me is better for me, I have the dog I need, that is for sure! Right now having an awful cold that has been dragging me out for a while now, and having so much home improvement stuff to do, I really wish she was lower maintenance. She does adjust well to spurts of less activity (like one or two days max), but I can tell she doesn't like it, and it isn't good for her. Ever since I realized that Schutzhund wasn't working (I missed half of the practices, since I work every second weekend, plus, although nice people, I didn't mesh with the club so well, they were better for experienced Schutzhund people not so great at guiding new people), she has been a bit....off, which is why I've been trying to find something else that will work for her with my schedule. Fact is though, I'll figure something out for her, even if it isn't a group thing...and her and I BOTH will be better for it. Though, being sick, I wish I didn't need to do that, I'll change my mind when I feel better though and get on it again . 

Dexter on his own was a really low maintenance dog, if he had been our only dog I would have called him crazy low maintenance, other than cleaning up his shedding hair. You want to exercise, he'll exercise, you want to lay on the couch, he'll lay on the couch and cuddle. Diesel was fairly high maintenance though, but that was only because he had behavior issues to work on, aside from that, he didn't require much either, just some company and the occasional romps and he was super happy.


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## gingerkid (Jul 11, 2012)

I used to wish that Snowball wasn't leash reactive - it stressed me out a ton. But not so much any more; I'm much better at handling it, recognizing the signs of reach his threshold, etc. I do, however, sometimes wish Snowball would get laryngitis. Especially since he seems to bark the most when I'm trying to get work done/have my hands in a raw chicken.

I want my next dog to be a bit more challenging; whether because they're a puppy or because its just a higher drive dog, I haven't decided yet (and I won't have to for a few years at least).


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Avie said:


> Sometimes I wish Mike would just relax and take it easy.
> 
> Then I am reminded of how low maintenance he actually is. He knows his commands, listens really well, is very attentive, is not difficult at all except for one thing that's not even detrimental (he's insecure when it comes to other dogs. Just yesterday he got frightened by a chihuahua in a tutu).
> 
> He's everything we could want. I shouldn't complain.


I think I would be frightened by a chihuahua in a tutu.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

@elrohwen -

I relate to a lot of what you said, in different ways. With Sam, if he's not working, he's just not happy. He NEEDS to work, at least in some way, every day and it really makes him a lot more sane. When we spend an entire day working, he's more settled for days after and I think it has less to do with the physical exertion than it does with the mental exertion. He thrives on being put in situations where he has to figure out something new. He gets frustrated to no end and complains, but it fulfills something in him that nothing else does. Without that, he's bored and it comes out in other ways.

And yes, I think structure is the word for it. Sometimes I wish he could handle having less structure, but he is very much like a soldier that thrives with a drill sergeant. The more routine things are and the more structured everything is, the more he relaxes and the better he does. The moment I start to slip on the NILIF or slack off on the structure, he's more like a sailor on shore leave. LOL! So, I'm the drill sergeant.

But when things "click" and we're both in sync...that feeling really is like nothing else.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

You know, I'm coming back to this because I'm thinking about it and I think to some degree it depends on the kind of maintenance? 

Kylie's high maintenance. She's high energy. She's high drive. She's demanding - but I enjoy her and if I could have her to the 10th power I would be All. Over. It. That's basically what I want my next dog to bed. Smart, energetic, wild, and TROUBLE... but also biddable and engaged with me. She's who got me into dog sports, she's who got me off my butt and into training for more than basic obedience, and she's danged well kept me on my toes, moving and thinking and DOING. I can definitely get away with less EXERCISE with her than I can training - training is her thing and keeping her mind active and her figuring things out in a constructive way is important, without it she falls completely apart. There is no slacking off with her, no skipping, and I like that. She thrives in classes and activities and sports and I really really love that. I want that in my life always.

Thud... is high maintenance, but mostly he's just hard. It's not the energy, it's not the drive, it's... just Thud being Thud. Kylie works with me. She's sharp and engaged and she's MAKING DEMANDS of me to be there and her partner. She WANTS to learn, wants me to teach and wants me to be doing this stuff WITH her. Thud's mostly just high energy and high drive, and I'm incidental to him. With him it's like the goal is to manage and direct the energy and drive, and prevent fallout from not having done so. He's not particularly biddable, I guess would be the termhere. His interest in working WITH me is pretty minimal, to tell the truth. Sadly, this makes it unpleasant enough for me that my interest in working with him is lower - it's just Not As Much Fun most of the time. Our relationship is still a billion times better than it would be if I could get away with doing very little with him, but...

He's still hard. I wouldn't give him up for the world, but he's not a dog or dog type I would or will have again - at least not voluntarily. 

I like cooperation between me and the dog and frankly that ain't there with Thud. He's affectionate, he's loving, he listens and he knows commands, but 'cooperate with the person' is not something he has an abundance of desire to do. Everything in the world is more exciting, rewarding, and interesting than me about 80% of the time. It's a different kind of exhausting and I don't really enjoy it, to be frank.


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## prntmkr (Jan 17, 2009)

Hesitate to post this, but:

Although its cannot be said for all BRT's, for us,
ours was/is _extremely_ easy to train,
and _extremely_ easy to raise.
All in all, he's been a total joy ...

Come to think of it, 
as was each of our dogs!?!
Obviously, it helps to be so anal 
with one's choice of breeder/puppy. :eyebrows:

It would be nice if grooming were a bit easier,
but that's the trade-off for minimal shedding.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Greater Swiss said:


> I'll admit yes, especially when Dexter was here (or even more so when Dexter AND Diesel were here). Caeda requires a fair bit of attention. I'm like Cpt Jack though, requiring more of me is better for me, I have the dog I need, that is for sure! Right now having an awful cold that has been dragging me out for a while now, and having so much home improvement stuff to do, I really wish she was lower maintenance. She does adjust well to spurts of less activity (like one or two days max), but I can tell she doesn't like it, and it isn't good for her. Ever since I realized that Schutzhund wasn't working (I missed half of the practices, since I work every second weekend, plus, although nice people, I didn't mesh with the club so well, they were better for experienced Schutzhund people not so great at guiding new people), she has been a bit....off, which is why I've been trying to find something else that will work for her with my schedule. Fact is though, I'll figure something out for her, even if it isn't a group thing...and her and I BOTH will be better for it. Though, being sick, I wish I didn't need to do that, I'll change my mind when I feel better though and get on it again .


We are SO lucky that we found the club we did. It's about 1/2 newer people and 1/2 more experienced people. I still sometimes feel intimidated by the more experienced folks, particularly one that likes to playfully "tease" people about their training mistakes, but on the whole they've been VERY supportive of Sam and I and willing to spend a ton of time and patience helping us. That kind of environment can be tough to find.

I hope you find an activity for Caeda that works for you both. I know with Sam, it makes a HUGE difference. I often find myself wanting to skip practices simply because it takes up so much time, but luckily, dh often prods me along because he enjoys how much more relaxed Sam is for days afterwards and, if we do skip, Sam knows it and is a basket case all day that we should have practiced! LOL!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> Thud... is high maintenance, but mostly he's just hard. It's not the energy, it's not the drive, it's... just Thud being Thud. Kylie works with me. She's sharp and engaged and she's MAKING DEMANDS of me to be there and her partner. She WANTS to learn, wants me to teach and wants me to be doing this stuff WITH her. Thud's mostly just high energy and high drive, and I'm incidental to him. With him it's like the goal is to manage and direct the energy and drive, and prevent fallout from not having done so. He's not particularly biddable, I guess would be the termhere. His interest in working WITH me is pretty minimal, to tell the truth. Sadly, this makes it unpleasant enough for me that my interest in working with him is lower - it's just Not As Much Fun most of the time. Our relationship is still a billion times better than it would be if I could get away with doing very little with him, but...
> 
> He's still hard.


Watson and Thud have a lot in common. Watson might be more biddable on a basic level, but he can be independent and very much has his own interests. He wants to hunt, and gosh darn it that's what he wants to do. I'm just the person standing at the end of the leash sometimes. At the same time he's weirdly co-dependent and really truly does like to train, but in stimulating environments his eyes glaze over and his brain falls out of his ears and he's focused on everything and nothing.

I did notice a solid difference in moving from obedience to agility. In obedience, working at home is awesome and fun, but in a stimulating environments that work is boring. In agility, he's much more engaged and really interested in working with me. He just does not like to be still and he'll do it if required, but he's not going to enjoy it - obedience is too much standing still. He still runs away sometimes in agility, with that eyes glazed over thing, but overall he is so much more interested in working with me, because he finds the work to have intrinsic value in a way that can actually compete with running around and visiting other dogs.

People say that border collies are crazy high maintenance, but honestly a dog who was crazy yet super handler focused would be easier than Watson in many ways. It would still be a lot of work, but I think there would be less moments where I wanted to beat my head against the wall. But then he's ridiculously fun and goofy and sweet and I want another one (maybe just a less crazy one).

ETA: Watson also explodes with too much structure. When we get home from agility classes he's super bitey and over stimulated. He's a physical dog and using his brain for too long comes out in unintended physical ways. He really needs physical exercise every day more than mental, even if it's only a 30-60 min walk where he can trot along and sniff all of the things. The more I try to control him sometimes, the more wild he becomes. We use tug in classes not as a reward, but as a physical outlet so he can re-focus.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> People say that border collies are crazy high maintenance, but honestly a dog who was crazy yet super handler focused would be easier than Watson in many ways. It would still be a lot of work, but I think there would be less moments where I wanted to beat my head against the wall. But then he's ridiculously fun and goofy and sweet and I want another one (maybe just a less crazy one).


That is interesting and I think a place where Sam is a bit different from Thud and Watson. Sam gets distracted like any dog his age, but on the whole, he is almost handler obsessed. He wants to be with me, touching me...all...the...time. As in, oh, you're across the room? That's too far away. I need to be right with you. Even moreso, I need you to tell me what you want me to do...every moment. He's happiest when he's getting constant focus from me and clear commands and I think that's what makes time at home more "work" for me, because I'd prefer to be able to casually relax rather than work. If I do not give him something to do, though, then he'll find another way to get my attention. 

I've worked on teaching him a "place" command and sending him there when I need a break and that has helped. But for now, it's kind of like he has no "training off switch" where I can stop being the handler and just be part of the family. I'm guessing that some of this will be helped by summer coming, with more frequent Schutzhund practices and tracking starting back up.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> ETA: Watson also explodes with too much structure. When we get home from agility classes he's super bitey and over stimulated. He's a physical dog and using his brain for too long comes out in unintended physical ways. He really needs physical exercise every day more than mental, even if it's only a 30-60 min walk where he can trot along and sniff all of the things. The more I try to control him sometimes, the more wild he becomes. We use tug in classes not as a reward, but as a physical outlet so he can re-focus.


That really is interesting as well and so different from Sam.  Sam can handle less physical exercise, but if you don't wear his mind out...he'll get himself into trouble trying to do it himself. LOL!


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Watson and Thud have a lot in common. Watson might be more biddable on a basic level, but he can be independent and very much has his own interests. He wants to hunt, and gosh darn it that's what he wants to do. I'm just the person standing at the end of the leash sometimes. At the same time he's weirdly co-dependent and really truly does like to train, but in stimulating environments his eyes glaze over and his brain falls out of his ears and he's focused on everything and nothing.
> 
> I did notice a solid difference in moving from obedience to agility. In obedience, working at home is awesome and fun, but in a stimulating environments that work is boring. In agility, he's much more engaged and really interested in working with me. He just does not like to be still and he'll do it if required, but he's not going to enjoy it - obedience is too much standing still. He still runs away sometimes in agility, with that eyes glazed over thing, but overall he is so much more interested in working with me, because he finds the work to have intrinsic value in a way that can actually compete with running around and visiting other dogs.
> 
> People say that border collies are crazy high maintenance, but honestly a dog who was crazy yet super handler focused would be easier than Watson in many ways. It would still be a lot of work, but I think there would be less moments where I wanted to beat my head against the wall. But then he's ridiculously fun and goofy and sweet and I want another one (maybe just a less crazy one).



Kylie is, I have decided, temperament wise a border collie and I'm cool with that. The handler focus makes all the difference in the world to me, in how much fun I'm having.

Thud just... I hate trying to compete with everything in the world that's more interesting than me. I did sign him up for agility foundations in June and think he'll do better with that because of the movement involved (and because of your remarks about it). He can have fun playing the game when its just us, and he IS friendly and affectionate and loving, but. Yeah. He's exhausting and frustrating. Happy! Friendly! Loving! Definitely wants to be on top of me 18 hours a day - but wanting to touch and be near me DOES NOT = Handler focused for him. Kylie is handler focused. Kylie is not interested in being touching and is just fine sitting across the room or whatever. Thud just wants physical affection, I think. Or me to entertain him. 

...Mostly I think Thud is just unfocused, period.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Kylie is, I have decided, temperament wise a border collie and I'm cool with that. The handler focus makes all the difference in the world to me, in how much fun I'm having.
> 
> Thud just... I hate trying to compete with everything in the world that's more interesting than me. I did sign him up for agility foundations in June and think he'll do better with that because of the movement involved (and because of your remarks about it). He can have fun playing the game when its just us, and he IS friendly and affectionate and loving, but. Yeah. He's exhausting and frustrating. Happy! Friendly! Loving! But exhausting and frustrating.


I find I get very easily frustrated when I feel like I'm having to compete for my dog's attention. It really is hard to keep a good attitude myself if I feel like I'm being blown off. If I have that attention, then even if he's not obeying or we're struggling, I have a lot more patience. I'm guessing that is part of Thud's guardian breed coming out in that he is drawn to work independently sometimes?


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

packetsmom said:


> That is interesting and I think a place where Sam is a bit different from Thud and Watson. Sam gets distracted like any dog his age, but on the whole, he is almost handler obsessed. He wants to be with me, touching me...all...the...time. As in, oh, you're across the room? That's too far away. I need to be right with you. Even moreso, I need you to tell me what you want me to do...every moment. He's happiest when he's getting constant focus from me and clear commands and I think that's what makes time at home more "work" for me, because I'd prefer to be able to casually relax rather than work. If I do not give him something to do, though, then he'll find another way to get my attention.
> 
> I've worked on teaching him a "place" command and sending him there when I need a break and that has helped. But for now, it's kind of like he has no "training off switch" where I can stop being the handler and just be part of the family. I'm guessing that some of this will be helped by summer coming, with more frequent Schutzhund practices and tracking starting back up.


Oh, Watson is extremely velcro. It took over a year to get him to not shriek and cry if I left him gated in one room and went to another (even now his tolerance is about 5 min). It took 12 weeks of nosework classes for him to be quiet in the car (and it's mostly because he's anxious, not because he's excited about nosework). He is always on my lap, or at the furthest across the room where he can keep an eye on me and jump up the second I move.

So he is handler obsessed, he just wants me nearby while he does his own work. lol I guess that's what hunting dogs do though. As long as your people are following along, keep on keeping on and find the birds. If I call him and disappear, he will give up on hunting and start to panic - it's just hard to get the guts to lose sight of him on purpose and trust he will come back.

I really do think we would be further in our training if I used removing myself as a consequence of not working. You don't want to work today? That's fine, you can go in your crate and I'll be across the facility doing things with other people. That would really get his attention. Instead, I'm still at the end of the leash, still with him, so there's no consequence to goofy around instead of work.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

A low-maintenance-Gypsy would not be a Gypsy. I couldn't imagine her without all the traits that make her a challenge and an occasional PITA. She's tireless, excessively enthusiastic, drivey, obsessive, busybusy in the house. She requires a ton of micromanagement, especially in public. BUT. I love her exactly the way she is. I didn't always, but we've developed a very strong relationship over the years. We have a blast together, now that I know how to handle her and she understands what to expect of me. She still drives me nuts sometimes, and I have no desire for a second Gypsy. But I love MY Gypsy. 

My next dog will ABSOLUTELY, DEFINITELY, MOST CERTAINLY be lower maintenance, though. LOL. I crave a dog that just chills sometimes. Boy, that would be so, so amazing.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

packetsmom said:


> I find I get very easily frustrated when I feel like I'm having to compete for my dog's attention. It really is hard to keep a good attitude myself if I feel like I'm being blown off. If I have that attention, then even if he's not obeying or we're struggling, I have a lot more patience. I'm guessing that is part of Thud's guardian breed coming out in that he is drawn to work independently sometimes?


Yes, this is basically how I feel. I really really don't care if he's doing things right, as long as he's paying attention to me and trying. It's the not paying attention that's hard. In agility the other day he ran off a few times after doing the tunnel (which he hasn't done lately). Later in the class we were teaching them to follow our cues and do two jumps, and not just run to the tunnel automatically. Watson ran straight to the tunnel, but he came out the other side and ran right to me, and I rewarded that heavily. Hey, he didn't do the right obstacle, but we can work on that later. Doing that tunnel and choosing to come to me rather than run to the other dogs was something worth rewarding.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Get a silken so I can be jealous.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

packetsmom said:


> That really is interesting as well and so different from Sam.  Sam can handle less physical exercise, but if you don't wear his mind out...he'll get himself into trouble trying to do it himself. LOL!


Yeah, Watson gets into trouble trying to be more physical - jumping up, biting, running around the house with a sock in his mouth, counter surfing, etc. I think mental exercise = impulse control to him, and that's hard for his little sporting dog brain.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> Oh, Watson is extremely velcro. It took over a year to get him to not shriek and cry if I left him gated in one room and went to another (even now his tolerance is about 5 min). It took 12 weeks of nosework classes for him to be quiet in the car (and it's mostly because he's anxious, not because he's excited about nosework). He is always on my lap, or at the furthest across the room where he can keep an eye on me and jump up the second I move.
> 
> So he is handler obsessed, he just wants me nearby while he does his own work. lol I guess that's what hunting dogs do though. As long as your people are following along, keep on keeping on and find the birds. If I call him and disappear, he will give up on hunting and start to panic - it's just hard to get the guts to lose sight of him on purpose and trust he will come back.
> 
> I really do think we would be further in our training if I used removing myself as a consequence of not working. You don't want to work today? That's fine, you can go in your crate and I'll be across the facility doing things with other people. That would really get his attention. Instead, I'm still at the end of the leash, still with him, so there's no consequence to goofy around instead of work.


We have a couple of handlers that use that in the club. If one of their dogs isn't paying attention when they're trying to work, they'll hand them off to someone else to be put into a down while they work the other dog...right in front of them. These are dogs that are REALLY handler focused, so it usually results in a lot of whining and pitifulness but after a couple of times, they learn that when they're on the field, they'd better pay attention or they lose their turn and someone else gets to have it. I think that's probably the roughest punishment from the dog's perspective that I've seen used and we do have handlers that use some tough aversives. Most of the dogs would rather have a tough correction of any kind and still get to work than not get to work AND have to watch their handler work with someone else.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

packetsmom said:


> I find I get very easily frustrated when I feel like I'm having to compete for my dog's attention. It really is hard to keep a good attitude myself if I feel like I'm being blown off. If I have that attention, then even if he's not obeying or we're struggling, I have a lot more patience. I'm guessing that is part of Thud's guardian breed coming out in that he is drawn to work independently sometimes?


Very likely seeing some breed traits emerge, yeah. He's pretty velcro in his own way, he's absolutely reliable with recall and to stick close. He is not absolutely guaranteed to care one single WHIT about what I want in an environment with interesting stuff in it. 

And yeah, a dog struggling but trying and focused on me is fine and I'm cool. It's when EVERYTHING IS MORE EXCITING THAN ME OMG that I just kind of want to crawl off somewhere and hide.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

packetsmom said:


> We have a couple of handlers that use that in the club. If one of their dogs isn't paying attention when they're trying to work, they'll hand them off to someone else to be put into a down while they work the other dog...right in front of them. These are dogs that are REALLY handler focused, so it usually results in a lot of whining and pitifulness but after a couple of times, they learn that when they're on the field, they'd better pay attention or they lose their turn and someone else gets to have it. I think that's probably the roughest punishment from the dog's perspective that I've seen used and we do have handlers that use some tough aversives. Most of the dogs would rather have a tough correction of any kind and still get to work than not get to work AND have to watch their handler work with someone else.


Watson would hate that soooo much. I'm not sure if he would make the connection though... he has a very hard time connecting action to consequence (or maybe I'm just not 100% consistent and that's what it takes for him). I could see him flipping out the same way the 20th time we tried that as he did the first time and not realizing what action of his made me leave him. I have been trying this type of thing more at home and it seems to help a bit. The "Gimme a Break" game was really the best thing ever though - telling him he could sniff whatever he wanted suddenly made me more interesting.

I do think in some ways it would be nice to have another dog to be able to do things like that - crate Watson and work with the other dog.


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## Arya of House Stark (Jan 14, 2014)

Oh god, yes. Esme's pretty low maintenance--she's 9 years old, so all she wants to do is go for walks, play a bit, and cuddle. Zoe…well, Zoe's hitting the bratty teen years and she's a GSD mix--that should explain everything. While she won't be more than 30 pounds full-grown, I'm exhausted most nights, especially since she's becoming very barky while on a leash. She barks at _everything_-strollers, bikes, people, etc. Talk about a stereotypical Brooklyn dog, hah!

While I don't mind her barking every once in a while (it keeps away the creepers, lol) I'm working with her on not being such a loudmouth while we're outside. She's also high energy and requires an hour walk in the afternoon, plus playtime and training. Needless to say, I'm exhausted and ready for bed by the time 9:30PM rolls around.

The good thing is she's very smart and picks commands up right away, so with a bit of training and some patience, I'm sure the "must show off that I am a Brooklyn dog" bark-a-thon teen phase will blow over. Esme did something similar as a puppy, and now she's unflappable as an adult. Plus, Zoe's very friendly with other dogs and people--Esme's picky about who she likes, so the upside to all of this is that I can take Zoe to the dog park to play with her friends and when we go home, she'll be nice and relaxed.

I do love my Zoe-belle and wouldn't trade her for anything, I just wish she wasn't such a hyper doofus 24/7 lol. Although she's calming down a lot since she was a little baby, so I think given a bit more time and training she'll be a bit more laid back. And hey, I just keep telling myself that thanks to my jogging routine, belly dance gig, and Zoe, I'm getting in excellent shape thanks to all the running around I do!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Also, something I hadn't considered much but might be a factor is the young intact male thing. I was watching a Leslie McDevitt video and she described some very Watson-like behavior in her adolescent male border collie, and acted like that was normal for young intact dogs. That very "OMG there are dogs here! I must meet them all! Everything is so exciting!" So I would probably get a border collie and have the same problems. lol

The female Welshies are so much calmer and more serious about life from what I've seen. Probably not an accident that the most successful person competing with Welshies has had all females.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Also, something I hadn't considered much but might be a factor is the young intact male thing. I was watching a Leslie McDevitt video and she described some very Watson-like behavior in her adolescent male border collie. That very "OMG there are dogs here! I must meet them all! Everything is so exciting!" So I would probably get a border collie and have the same problems. lol
> 
> The female Welshies are so much calmer and more serious about life from what I've seen. Probably not an accident that the most successful person competing with Welshies has had all females.


Yeah. I frequently need to remind myself that Thud is not yet 18 months old and has his balls. Someday, he's going to grow an attention span - even a tiny one. 

SOMEDAY.

But his similarities to Watson seriously make me wonder if I'm not totally wrong about my breed guesses and there's something sporting in there. He acts JUST LIKE the 10 month old Golden Retriever in our agility classes. It's uncanny.

I swear though Next dog: Herding - Corgi, Sheltie, or BC. Period, the end. Maybe, MAYBE a RT, which still counts as herding in my book, but probably not. Let me tell you how much I do not regret ending up with a springer after having Thud, though .


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> Watson would hate that soooo much. I'm not sure if he would make the connection though... he has a very hard time connection action to consequence. I could see him flipping out the same way the 20th time we tried that as he did the first time and not realizing what action of his made me leave him. I have been trying this type of thing more at home and it seems to help a bit. The "Gimme a Break" game was really the best thing ever though - telling him he could sniff whatever he wanted suddenly made me more interesting.
> 
> I do think in some ways it would be nice to have another dog to be able to do things like that - crate Watson and work with the other dog.


I'm definitely in the minority in that I only have Sam and it's interesting to see how the people who have more than one dog sometimes use that to their advantage working them. It's also interesting to see where it causes issues, like when a handler who has an older, more experienced dog forgets that their younger, less experienced dog doesn't know everything yet, or when another handler brought the dog they usually do agility with to Schutzhund and then forgot that this dog wasn't as far along in this sport. You also see handlers that are thrown for a loop when what worked with one dog doesn't work with their newer dog or where issues between the dogs at home bleed over into working on the field.

I go back and forth thinking about nextdog. Sometimes I think it would be best to get a lower drive, calmer family dog. Other times, I think I'd like a working line dog, bred for Schutzhund to work with. Other times, I think Sam is more than enough all on his own. I do know that I'm going to avoid all pictures of puppies near me until Sam at least has his BH if not longer. LOL!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

packetsmom said:


> I'm definitely in the minority in that I only have Sam and it's interesting to see how the people who have more than one dog sometimes use that to their advantage working them. It's also interesting to see where it causes issues, like when a handler who has an older, more experienced dog forgets that their younger, less experienced dog doesn't know everything yet, or when another handler brought the dog they usually do agility with to Schutzhund and then forgot that this dog wasn't as far along in this sport. You also see handlers that are thrown for a loop when what worked with one dog doesn't work with their newer dog or where issues between the dogs at home bleed over into working on the field.
> 
> I go back and forth thinking about nextdog. Sometimes I think it would be best to get a lower drive, calmer family dog. Other times, I think I'd like a working line dog, bred for Schutzhund to work with. Other times, I think Sam is more than enough all on his own. I do know that I'm going to avoid all pictures of puppies near me until Sam at least has his BH if not longer. LOL!


Yeah, I think a lot about what I want next. I do want another high-ish drive dog, but I'm between another Welsh and some type of herder that might be more naturally handler focused, like an Aussie. But I'm waiting until after having a kid (which is still a couple years away) because I can't imagine having a baby while taking care of two higher drive obnoxious dogs. lol


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Yeah, I think a lot about what I want next. I do want another high-ish drive dog, but I'm between another Welsh and some type of herder that might be more naturally handler focused, like an Aussie. But I'm waiting until after having a kid (which is still a couple years away) because I can't imagine having a baby while taking care of two higher drive obnoxious dogs. lol


We'll be on about the same time frame. Let's get herders together and do this whole puppy raising thing together again


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

CptJack said:


> Yeah. I frequently need to remind myself that Thud is not yet 18 months old and has his balls. Someday, he's going to grow an attention span - even a tiny one.
> 
> SOMEDAY.


I hadn't even thought about it, but some of Sam's recent reactivity coming back could be due to raging hormones. We haven't had any incidents at home since the "great bed humping/shredding incident of 2013," but he is kind of acting like a teenage boy who picks fights and then isn't quite prepared for the older guy to take him up on it. :/ If it continues, I might consider neutering at 18-24 months, but hopefully he'll settle down by then. So far, he's been manageable.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> Yeah, I think a lot about what I want next. I do want another high-ish drive dog, but I'm between another Welsh and some type of herder that might be more naturally handler focused, like an Aussie. But I'm waiting until after having a kid (which is still a couple years away) because I can't imagine having a baby while taking care of two higher drive obnoxious dogs. lol


I'm lucky in that my human babies are now big enough that they can let the dog out.  On the downside, they both feel the need to "help" with training, which all too often leads to bad behavior being rewarded. My daughter (8 years old), though, has started going with us to Schutzhund and is actually starting to get really good with basic training. Sam obeys her better than dh! It's the 10 year old that pets him when he's being naughty.

Kids are harder to train.


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## Remaru (Mar 16, 2014)

packetsmom said:


> I'm lucky in that my human babies are now big enough that they can let the dog out.  On the downside, they both feel the need to "help" with training, which all too often leads to bad behavior being rewarded. My daughter (8 years old), though, has started going with us to Schutzhund and is actually starting to get really good with basic training. Sam obeys her better than dh! It's the 10 year old that pets him when he's being naughty.
> 
> Kids are harder to train.


I have this issue with my kids too. My oldest is 12 and my youngest is 8. My American Bulldog is my youngest son's dog/shadow and it is beyond adorable to watch a 100lb dog walk so politely next to a 40lb child. My son can put Duke through all of his commands and tricks no problem but Duke is amazingly forgiving of any slips. He's working on it though, been reading lots of books on dogs and dog training (I make sure they are all R+ he likes the dog breed books too). My oldest is autistic and can be a little off putting to dogs. He does tend to accidentally reward or work up the dogs. He taught Remus to chew clothes when he was a puppy. It was accidental but not fun to untrain. He is super helpful for taking the new puppy out though.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

CptJack said:


> We'll be on about the same time frame. Let's get herders together and do this whole puppy raising thing together again


Haha. I think about it, but then I see traits in herders that I wouldn't want either. It's A balance and sometimes it's more about lucking into the perfect-for-you dog than finding the right breed, because there will always be variation

I think Watson is similar to a high-ish drive lab or golden in many ways, and I see lots of them who are awesome adults. I get impatient though and worry he won't grow out of this crap, but I think he will with time and work. In many ways he's awesome when I don't let my expectations get in the way.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Thinking back, Trent was a very, very good dog between 2 months and 8 or 9 months. A lot pointed to him becoming my current ideal dog (although I wasn't crazy about his energy/personality at the time). But during adolescence, from that 9 month old to 2 year old range, he went through a variety of issues that had me in way over my head. It wasn't just his energy, it was his drives being strong in all the areas I wish it wasn't, the low thresholds,the independence, etc. I had wished he was lower maintenance, that I had gone with a different breed, a different litter... But starting from right around 3 years of age, he really grew into himself and gave me that break that I'd wished for during that adolescent stage. Sure, there are still times when I ask him "hey, dude, can you be a normal dog for once?" but really I just enjoy working with him so much. There isn't much that I'd really change about him, and I'd love to do it all over again if I could.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Laurelin said:


> Get a silken so I can be jealous.


Ever since you talked about your experience with that one Silken, I've been really wanting one. There's a pretty big breed club in the area and a specialty (UKC, I think?) during the summer that's very close by. I've always said that I'd like two working dogs and a LH Whippet (or a CKCS), but now I'm thinking that a Silken would be really great, too.


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## katbou (Jan 24, 2012)

Yes. I guess I solved it by getting a second dog. Most of the dogs we are talking about are really puppies. Age alone can solve a lot of high maintenance issues. 

I have a Brittany, Cap and recently got a Standard Poodle pup, Oliver. They are both very smart but otherwise complete opposites. Oliver is sooo laid back. He is really focused for a puppy. Is willing to learn anything you want to take the time to teach him. Very calm. Cap, well he is a Brittany, enough said. Having the two helps me appreciate how easy Oliver is and Cap's enthusiasm and sense of fun. When I say touch, Cap runs to my hand and slams his nose at it, Oliver walks over and very gently barely touches my hand. 

Elrohwen, hang in there. At around age two Cap's focus starting improving significantly. He is still high energy but his behavior is much improved. I believe this will continue until he matures. I am hopeful that will be somewhere between 3-4.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Equinox said:


> Ever since you talked about your experience with that one Silken, I've been really wanting one. There's a pretty big breed club in the area and a specialty (UKC, I think?) during the summer that's very close by. I've always said that I'd like two working dogs and a LH Whippet (or a CKCS), but now I'm thinking that a Silken would be really great, too.


She was just as sweet and wonderful this last week too! And so CUTE. She really has some of the cutest mannerisms when she's shaping tricks. Very clever little girl too.

Everyone needs one, haha. I just want pictures.


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## Equinox (Nov 11, 2008)

Laurelin said:


> She was just as sweet and wonderful this last week too! And so CUTE. She really has some of the cutest mannerisms when she's shaping tricks. Very clever little girl too.
> 
> Everyone needs one, haha. I just want pictures.


Ugh, how do you stop yourself from scooping her up and just running away with her? I've met a few downright sweet and cute and lovely dogs that I've just wanted to steal on the spot. A Silken would look so great with Mia and Summer! Pretty and feathery dogs everywhere! I'm thinking I'll definitely go to that show in August just to meet the breed. And pray I don't run into any breeders with puppies there that are available... I shouldn't get a puppy but my resolve can only hold up for so long. 

But really though, they are so pretty and photogenic. I'm already thinking of all the pictures I could take, and how nice a little girly Silken will look next to Trent. Goddangit.


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## Miss Bugs (Jul 4, 2011)

eh, this is why I tend to have a mix of dogs lol, I enjoy the different types, having a chill "pet" and some goofy dogs and focused read to work dogs.. I do on occasion wish my dogs weren't SO obsessed with working, but only because in classes I feel like the "mean mom" because my dogs don't just turn goofy, they dot "switch" modes. we'll be in class working on exercises and the instructor will say "ok release your dogs!" and everyone's dogs will turn into happy mushy dorks and my dogs wont even leave position, they just want to know what do do next, heel? sit? front? go jump? weave? they just wait in position with a grin waiting for the next command and telling them "no no, you can do whatever you want now" is like "does.not.compute.." lol I feel like people must think I am some kinda drill sergeant at home!I swear they are dorky goofballs but once they are in "working" mode, they are IN working mode, and their joy becomes the work, they have no desire to start playing around in the middle.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Equinox said:


> Ugh, how do you stop yourself from scooping her up and just running away with her? I've met a few downright sweet and cute and lovely dogs that I've just wanted to steal on the spot. A Silken would look so great with Mia and Summer! Pretty and feathery dogs everywhere! I'm thinking I'll definitely go to that show in August just to meet the breed. And pray I don't run into any breeders with puppies there that are available... I shouldn't get a puppy but my resolve can only hold up for so long.
> 
> But really though, they are so pretty and photogenic. I'm already thinking of all the pictures I could take, and how nice a little girly Silken will look next to Trent. Goddangit.


If I wasn't set on a herderbrain agility dog next I would be considering it... Maybe a few dogs down the road.

You need one.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

packetsmom said:


> We are SO lucky that we found the club we did. It's about 1/2 newer people and 1/2 more experienced people. I still sometimes feel intimidated by the more experienced folks, particularly one that likes to playfully "tease" people about their training mistakes, but on the whole they've been VERY supportive of Sam and I and willing to spend a ton of time and patience helping us. That kind of environment can be tough to find.


 You are lucky. Don't get me wrong, they are a great bunch of people, but the main people involved with the training weren't receptive to my styles of training and were very used to training GSDs and dealing with GSD temperament. I didn't get much in the way of help with the protection either....I needed help knowing what to train next, and what particular things I needed to watch for etc...there wasn't much volunteering of information, I had to ask for it and I felt that if I didn't ask the exact right questions I wouldn't get the information I needed. One of the toppers was that I really didn't enjoy tracking, Caeda thought it was alright, but wasn't SUPER hyped about it....but it really didn't do it for me. Obedience went great, I could have gotten the BH, but I didn't want to have to register with the GSD club of Canada (And spend the extra bucks) since I had pretty much realized I was going to move on. 

I will find her something though!! A bit more research, and perhaps I'll ask for our schedule to be more fair (one of the three in my position doesn't work weekends....if he starts to it might be worth signing up for something on weekends). At least I live in a small city now, so I should be able to find something, plus there is a lot of countryside nearby...perhaps herding, I'm not sure.


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## Flaming (Feb 2, 2013)

yes and no

Manna will probably never get fat because of her hyperness but I mean common! you're a Newfie Manna not a BC!


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## PatriciafromCO (Oct 7, 2012)

training wise and living with have been easy with the group,, am getting better at grooming the one lol.. think I am getting the hang of it and have a nice collection of different brushes for different areas and different shedding stages... so that would be the wish for lower maintenance and the knowledge not to ever have two of them at the same time


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## Kayota (Aug 14, 2009)

it doesnt get lower maintenance than this.. if i wanted a lower maintenance dog i may as well be wishing for no dog at all lol


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Also yes. Though I doubt any of mine are as high octane as yours :, they have their little deals that irritate me. But I chose to take them into my life so I try not to get mad at them lol.


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## GrinningDog (Mar 26, 2010)

Laurelin said:


> Get a silken so I can be jealous.


As soon as I finish grad school (and get stable and alla that), that's the plan! Assuming I'm still alive after the apartment + grad school + Gypsy medley...


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## Jacksons Mom (Mar 12, 2010)

Sort of, but in a different way. Then again, sort of not, because some of his quirks are the reason we're so close. I think.

He's very easy and laid back in the sense that I can take him anywhere, and know he's going to behave. He's an amazing dog to travel with, go on trips, etc. He's my bombproof boy that I can try anything with... whether that be dock diving or agility, etc. He is SO smart and learns things so easily. He's so much fun to train and work with. He's just mostly an all around really great dog. He's high energy when need be, but can be relaxed and laid back when need be too.

The way that he's high maintenance is his little quirks and issues. He's not a dog that I could just... board for the weekend, or bring to doggie daycare during the week, or have just any person come into our house and let him out. He hates the vet and gets sooo scared that his anal glands release. He often does the same thing for his groomer even though it's a mobile groomer who comes to our driveway and he has seen her every 8 weeks or so for the past 2 1/2 years. If he gets scared of a noise, he can often shut down (i.e. a firework, or gunshot) and if something bad happens, he will remember it forever.

So anyway, he's high maintenance in THAT way, but most of the time he's truly my perfect dog. But I do get slightly envious at those that don't have to worry so much about who is going to watch their dog if you need to go away or whatever. The only person/house I trust to leave him in is my dads house. If I could create my perfect dog, it'd be him except I would probably take away his noise sensitivity and his fear of strangers sometimes. I don't mind an aloof dog at all (in fact, I think I prefer it) but the scared-ness makes me feel so bad for him. Overall he's not a fearful dog so it's not a HUGE issue to just make sure he's not around with fireworks or gun shots etc, but it would be awesome if he didn't have it.


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## KodiBarracuda (Jul 4, 2011)

You know, for me at least, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Maisy is 14ish months old now and she's going through weird phases. She will be super quiet and subdued for about 2 weeks and I start thinking "golly gee I sure wish Maisy was "crazy Maisy " like before, then I have a week of her needing constant monitoring and stimulation and I yearn for the relaxed Maisy. Lather rinse repeat.

I will be happy with either version of her when she matures and decides to be one or the other or a mixture of the two, but right now she is either all go or no go.

People always say to me "gosh I sure would like a dog but I dont know how you do it." I don't tend to tell them that she usually spends all of her indoor hours sleeping under the desk while I study or chewing on a chew toy, I don't want them thinking it will be easy and then going out and getting themselves some manic animal and hating ME because I misrepresented dog ownership to them.


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## Canyx (Jul 1, 2011)

Nope, since Soro's already as low maintenance as they come.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Equinox said:


> Thinking back, Trent was a very, very good dog between 2 months and 8 or 9 months. A lot pointed to him becoming my current ideal dog (although I wasn't crazy about his energy/personality at the time). But during adolescence, from that 9 month old to 2 year old range, he went through a variety of issues that had me in way over my head. It wasn't just his energy, it was his drives being strong in all the areas I wish it wasn't, the low thresholds,the independence, etc. I had wished he was lower maintenance, that I had gone with a different breed, a different litter... But starting from right around 3 years of age, he really grew into himself and gave me that break that I'd wished for during that adolescent stage. Sure, there are still times when I ask him "hey, dude, can you be a normal dog for once?" but really I just enjoy working with him so much. There isn't much that I'd really change about him, and I'd love to do it all over again if I could.


Of course he is the ideal ... Trent is like ... The best dog ever!


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

packetsmom said:


> I've missed you guys.
> 
> Sam and I are going through a challenging stage. I love the guy and have no doubt that we'll be fine, but there are just times I find myself wishing I could just relax and enjoy him and be his buddy rather than having to work so much on his training. He's growing into an amazing dog, so handsome and strong and impressive and when things click, I LOVE working with him, but then there are the times when I'm just tired of having to really be on top of him (training wise, not literally), when I wish I could relax and not have to focus so much on being a strong leader and let up on the NILIF and such. Or I realize that I really can't skip Schutzhund practice or else he's just not the same all week without the outlet he needs.
> 
> ...


No I have never had that wish.....


And I doubt you really do either. You got that intense high drive dog because you wanted it... You may be going through a bit of a rough patch.....
But I think you will get past it..... And I take it this is your first dog of this intensity. One day you will wake up... When the dog is three, maybe four etc.... And all the work you have done, all the training, all the time you have spent and you are going to be in the dogs head and the dog is going to be in your head....... To a level that is kind of spooky. And when you ge t there...... It is easy.... Almost too easy...

And next thing you know.... You are going to find yourself dreaming of this..... 

[video]http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/238/So_You_Think_You_Want_a_High_Drive_Puppy/[/video]


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## BernerMax (Mar 15, 2013)

YES definitely. My gal killed all of our baby ducklings sunday, all of them. She has to be so carefully managed and monitored (she killed chicks that first year and now she is fine with our free range hens, but she is new to ducks)-- all it took was distraction and looking away (pen is visible from a window, they were having their outside time in process of transitioning out of the brooder)....
She needs her excercise and stimulation, or- she finds her own....

That said I was so upset and sad and she tried to crawl into my lap she didnt understand what I was upset about....
So yeah she is high maintenance. She will be fine with ducks, eventually.... but we are going to have to go slower, and more carefully....


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## JohnnyBandit (Sep 19, 2008)

Funny.... I have on occasion had low maintenance dogs. But also always had at least a couple of high maintenance dogs at the same time. The low maintenance dog tends to get lost in the crowd. Works better now that I am married to my current wife. Her last dog was Buc. He was a low maintenance dog most of his life. She is getting a crash course in high maintenance with her young Lab Keely.... She is Gonzo...


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## Foresthund (Jul 17, 2013)

Now that he is 6 years old he is pretty low maintenance,doesn't mean he still can't be naughty and energetic. In fact once in awhile he can still be a pain in the butt. Just that he's pretty relaxed most of the time,and will actually let me sleep in all day if I wanted. As well as being naturally clean without any gross habits. When younger he was a lot more higher maintenance,and yes it can get overwhelming at times.

Energy wise for my next dog whenever that is I would want it to be about his energy level or slightly higher. 

Although I think I'd prefer a dog with less DA to other male dogs than him,and with my life style I don't think I want a dog with as a high as prey drive as my first dog. Although some prey drive is a necessity,I want a dog that can chase a toy around but won't eat my cats. If the dog wants to go after stray cats, so be it. Coat wise I want a dog either like my Rott or even Malamute mix,and not like the Newfie. I dislike fur that easily tangles and catches debris. I cannot afford a $100 grooming trip every two weeks for my dog. 

The Malamute/GSD was a big wake up call for a first dog,sure she may have not been the best beginner dog choice but I loved that dog. Sometimes is just takes awhile to fully appreciate a dog,and strong personalities can really make a dog shine.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Overall, if my dog was lower maintenance he'd be a doorstop. 

I do sometimes need a break from him though, especially in this long winter. He does tend to cling to me and that gets to be a bit much at times, but then I worry about what he's getting into when he isn't clinging to me, so I check on him, and he's reminded I'm here, and wants to come have a cuddle. When he gets annoying, it can usually be solved with 15 minutes of play time or training, or a walk.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

katbou said:


> Elrohwen, hang in there. At around age two Cap's focus starting improving significantly. He is still high energy but his behavior is much improved. I believe this will continue until he matures. I am hopeful that will be somewhere between 3-4.


Nice to hear from another sporting dog owner. IME, brittanies can be more difficult than Welshies at this age, which makes me glad we steered away from getting a britt. Young male sporting dogs in general are just a PITA I think. They definitely require patience and a good sense of humor!


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

JohnnyBandit said:


> No I have never had that wish.....
> 
> 
> And I doubt you really do either. You got that intense high drive dog because you wanted it... You may be going through a bit of a rough patch.....
> ...


LOL...oddly enough, when we were looking for a puppy, we were planning on the "gentle giant," laid back type. We looked at Newfies and BMD's and finally we found Sam. His mother's owner thought the father was a very mild mannered black lab his neighbor owned. Sam's attitude and looks seem to suggest someone else snuck in and then we found out another owner owned an intact Belgian Malinois, which seems much more likely.

I suddenly found myself with a puppy that was much different than we expected, but to me, it was my job to adjust to him. We found a Schutzhund club and changed our expectations and he's come so far...and you're right...he is my first dog that is really this intense. My parents bred GSD's, but it's quite different when your parents are breeding dogs rather than you raising a dog yourself. That, and he's a lot bigger than GSD's, which adds a whole other dimension to things.

But you're right...I love him to pieces and those moments where we are in sync are so rewarding. I also find myself sometimes envying the people with higher drive dogs because, while the dog is nuts to live with, they have that intense joy on the field.

I think I did get the dog I need.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

JohnnyBandit said:


> No I have never had that wish.....
> 
> 
> And I doubt you really do either. You got that intense high drive dog because you wanted it... You may be going through a bit of a rough patch.....
> ...


This, all of it. Nothing like raising a high drive puppy, they bury themselves deep into your soul like no other dog can. They are just ... Different.


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## Kyndall54 (Apr 26, 2013)

Sometimes there are days when I just want to relax on my day off, but Ammy still has trouble settling well. I just want her to cuddle up with me sometimes and take a nap or relax with me on the couch (especially when I was in the ER this weekend!) but she is not that kind of dog. She's not a big cuddler and she doesn't like naps much. She can't settle pretty much anywhere besides her crate. This is the only thing I wish was different about her. 

But I still love her and she'll do things some days where I think, I wouldn't have you any other way! (until she chews a $40 bra in half -.-.)


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## aiw (Jun 16, 2012)

Oh yes.

Pete is not a difficult dog in the way that some others here are. I'm pretty sure I could never walk or work him again and aside from some extra zoomies he'd be fine.... It's other aspects in which he's a pretty high-maintenance dog. His absolute determination to get any food, his issues with anxiety and confinement and *by far* the most frustrating.... housetraining. He still makes the odd mistake, punctuated by weeks or months without a problem. So frustrating.

Overall though all his problems are manageable and they've improved *massively* in the two years he's been home with us. What issues he has left are mostly my responsibility for failing to manage or retrain. He's a sweetheart.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

On that video, that's how Izze acted as a puppy and she was my first ACD, my other dog I had at the time gave me the same look that poor dog I the video on the doggy bed had "why did you do this to me?" Lol.

That being said, we both survived and she became a great dog ... Btw if you thinkthatbstage is bad you should we the teenage stages


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> Long answer, still yes. lol Watson is hard. I've had dogs, known dogs, worked with dogs in a shelter, and he's just a hard dog. He's high energy and very easily overstimulated by things. When he's over stimulated he's all or nothing and throws himself head first into things. If he's working with me, then it's great and he's working his heart out. Probably 70% of the time he's not working with me, and is all out trying to do whatever else it is that he wants to do. He's not the type of dog to quietly follow me around a rally or obedience ring waiting for my instructions - he's the little dog with flashy focused heeling for about 20 seconds until "OMG! I need to sniff that sign over there! And what is that dog doing?! We need to check this out. Come on, mom!!" and hitting the end of the leash with all the strength in his 45lb body. No matter how many times he hits the leash and I don't budge, he's still going to try running into the end of the leash again, just in case.





CptJack said:


> Thud just... I hate trying to compete with everything in the world that's more interesting than me.
> ...Mostly I think Thud is just unfocused, period.


You both pretty much described Ryker to a T. He's great and people love him. They say he has a lot of "character" haha oh yeah...tons. He's not very handler focused when there are more interesting things around. Most of the time there's is always something more interesting than me. He's not too high energy, more like active if that makes sense. I feel bad that our obedience teacher has to yell over his incredibly loud bawls lol. With the bad there is definitely good, he's an awesome cuddler, funny, and settles very well if I'm too tired to go for a walk/run. I would never in a million years have TWO hound or sporting breeds at the same time. No way. My 2nd dog will be different.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

jade5280 said:


> You both pretty much described Ryker to a T. He's great and people love him. They say he has a lot of "character" haha oh yeah...tons.


Haha, I get that one all the time. I'm guilty of it too, because the dogs I love in our classes are the ones who are kind of nuts and probably driving their owners crazy (for different reasons than Watson drives me crazy, usually). It also makes me happy to realize that he used to be much crazier in classes, so at least we've accomplished something.

I think they do settle down eventually, for the most part (and Ryker is right in the the worst time at 8 months). I know old man Goldens and Welshies who are just sweet and easy going, but they weren't always that way. I figure when Watson's about 5 or so he won't be too much trouble anymore and I'll be ready for another (maybe a female next time). And I don't think I want a dog who is just easy right from the start - I guess it's about picking which not-easy traits I'd rather live with. I don't think I would want a drivey dog who spooky or reactive either, even if it was super handler focused.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> I guess it's about picking which not-easy traits I'd rather live with.


Yup.

I've had dogs my whole life, but this is the first time I've ever really felt like I was going to be in control of what type of dog I ended up with - I mean more than the very basics. It's been a learning curve, which is maybe kind of strange given said history of dog ownership, but it's a thing. 

I can deal with spooky and reactive. I can deal with exuberant, happy and outgoing, too, though it's not always my favorite. 

I can not deal with a lack of handler focus - or in Thud's case much focus at all.. Which I am realizing more and more why I'm okay with Bug but NOT so okay with Thud. I mean I love Thud but working with him really is often an exhausting chore I need to decompress from MYSELF. Bug? I don't have that with. She wants to go home with everybody and is loving and friendly and outgoing and wiggly and bouncy....

But she is also 200% willing to focus on me and learn with me, as opposed to deciding she wants to leave in order to investigate that leaf that just blew by.

'Course, Bug is also 7. Thud's not even 18 months old, yet.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Going back a couple pages to what Packet said about working another dog helps with the other dog (and such). 

I found a big difference in Ranger's drive pre and post foster dog. Previously he would space when we were working on things (like darting to his toy box to bring me a toy, etc) and no interest in 'real' tug (pulling backwards on it, trying to get it out of my hand vs just holding/mouthing it). 

Since Sophie came (and went onto her new home) he's started a glimmer of real tug drive...he's played tug pulling backwards with another dog, and he'll play in short bursts with me). He also has more interest in keeping attention since if he went off I'd just play around with her.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Kylie never wants to work with me more than when I'm working with another dog. Frost and Bug are also inclined to really want to give me attention because I'll drop it and move on to another dog.

Jack gets relieved and goes to our bed and takes a nap. Thud just... carries on wandering off. At MOST he's jealous that the other dog is giving me attention. Not that I'm giving the other dog attention, but that they're giving me their attention. And yet the highest value reward I can give him, even above food, is physical affection.

Definitely some LGD stuff going on. It'd bother me less if he were lower energy, I think.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

We went on vacation last year with our friends and their ACD (mix?). One day I decided to teach the ACD something new, and Watson would not leave us alone - he wanted to work too. I'm sure he would pay a bit more attention if he knew I could leave him to work with another dog. I'll just have to convince my husband that we need a puppy. lol


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

jade5280 said:


> You both pretty much described Ryker to a T. He's great and people love him. They say he has a lot of "character" haha oh yeah...tons. He's not very handler focused when there are more interesting things around. Most of the time there's is always something more interesting than me. He's not too high energy, more like active if that makes sense. I feel bad that our obedience teacher has to yell over his incredibly loud bawls lol. With the bad there is definitely good, he's an awesome cuddler, funny, and settles very well if I'm too tired to go for a walk/run. I would never in a million years have TWO hound or sporting breeds at the same time. No way. My 2nd dog will be different.


that is why I will never own a hound or sporting breed ... because I just couldn't deal with a dog who wasn't handler focused. I know some of it is training, but I have been told by some hound / sporting breed owners that you can only train handler focus to a point. No thanks LOL. I like my super biddable (but crazy) herding and working breeds.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> that is why I will never own a hound or sporting breed ... because I just couldn't deal with a dog who wasn't handler focused. I know some of it is training, but I have been told by some hound / sporting breed owners that you can only train handler focus to a point. No thanks LOL. I like my super biddable (but crazy) herding and working breeds.


That's certainly not true about sporting breeds in general. Retrievers in particular can be extremely handler focused. There are plenty of labs and goldens tearing it up in the obedience and agility rings and their handler focus isn't an issue.

Hounds are a different story.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> that is why I will never own a hound or sporting breed ... because I just couldn't deal with a dog who wasn't handler focused. I know some of it is training, but I have been told by some hound / sporting breed owners that you can only train handler focus to a point. No thanks LOL. I like my super biddable (but crazy) herding and working breeds.


 He's very smart and learns new tricks extremely quickly (I'm actually surprised most of the time) but you are right, I don't think he will ever be super handler focused or biddable outside of the house when other things are more fun and engaging to him than I am.

There is also a reason why I wanted a hound though. I like the challenge and I'm sick in the head.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> That's certainly not true about sporting breeds in general. Retrievers in particular can be extremely handler focused. There are plenty of labs and goldens tearing it up in the obedience and agility rings and their handler focus isn't an issue.
> 
> Hounds are a different story.


Yep. Hounds, sure. Sporting breeds? NOT REALLY APPLICABLE AT ALL. Sub in LiveStock Guardians/Guardian breeds there instead of sporting, and I won't disagree.

Sporting breeders are just, frankly, danged slow to mature and energetic. That's not the same thing at all. 

(And come to that, I suspect at least half of my issues with Thud are less 'not handler focused' on its own and more 'not handler focused and HYPER. Things not to combine, IMO: Herders and guardians, OMFG. Not that I really know what he is, but I'm willing to bet money at this point that there's some of both.)


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

elrohwen said:


> Nice to hear from another sporting dog owner. IME, brittanies can be more difficult than Welshies at this age, which makes me glad we steered away from getting a britt. Young male sporting dogs in general are just a PITA I think. They definitely require patience and a good sense of humor!


There were a lot of birds at the trial last weekend. Like landing on the course in the middle of a run lot ofbirds. And a britt running. I am not sure I have ever appreciated more what innate instinct is. Talk about distraction! That dog was flushing birds all over the place. Screw agility!

My easy dog is not boring at all. She can get lost sometimes, I think, behind Mia but it just takes some effort to find things that enable her to really shine. She's 10 so not the most impressive sports dog but she has a lot of focus and try on her jobs. She always impresses me with her enthusiasm to work and recently her odor detection work has come along so nicely and the game is really clicking. She's nice and easy and super friendly. She's always happy to do things or not do things and is not fearful or reactive. And yet she's very focused on me. I think dogs like her are very underrated, quite frankly.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> There were a lot of birds at the trial last weekend. Like landing on the course in the middle of a run lot ofbirds. And a britt running. I am not sure I have ever appreciated more what innate instinct is. Talk about distraction! That dog was flushing birds all over the place. Screw agility!
> 
> My easy dog is not boring at all. She can get lost sometimes, I think, behind Mia but it just takes some effort to find things that enable her to really shine. She's 10 so not the most impressive sports dog but she has a lot of focus and try on her jobs. She always impresses me with her enthusiasm to work and recently her odor detection work has come along so nicely and the game is really clicking. She's nice and easy and super friendly. She's always happy to do things or not do things and is not fearful or reactive. And yet she's very focused on me. I think dogs like her are very underrated, quite frankly.



The problem with me with easy dogs is that if there isn't a consequence for not doing things with the dog... I'm almost definitely not going to do much with the dog. That's a flaw in me, not the dog (and it's a major one, I know). I'm basically lazy. If the dog will 'let me' get away with minimal training and exercise, I'm going to do minimal training and exercise. It's fine for the dog, but it's lousy for ME and my mental and physical health. 

But yeah, it's totally underrating the dogs and not particularly fair to them.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Yeah you could do nothing with Summer and she'd be perfectly cool with that. Just give her a snuggle or two a day. And food. Summer likes food. That said when I got her at 4 years she was significantly higher energy and did need some exercise often. But still overall easy.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Boxers or any breed that never grows up, I can handle slow to mature but eventually I want them to mature. I love bully breeds but I want them to mature eventually. Josefina would let me "get away" with being lazy as a trainer but since I am not lazy I am always doing hints with her. She goes running with me and I am always playing with her and working with her. She is just so eager to learn that it makes me feel like a bad person I don't work with her. 

By sporting breeds I was referencing the spaniels, I don't care for the spaniels (sorry to anyone who owns them) and hounds.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> Yeah you could do nothing with Summer and she'd be perfectly cool with that. Just give her a snuggle or two a day. And food. Summer likes food. That said when I got her at 4 years she was significantly higher energy and did need some exercise often. But still overall easy.


Jack's basically like that. I mean he benefits from exercise and attention and activity, but if you're not doing those things with you he's content to curl up beside you and just soak up love. I'd say the other dogs making me do things and do things with HIM has benefited his life, but in truth it's mostly probably just benefited his level of fitness. All he wants, honest to god, is some good snuggling and the odd squeaky toy to murder. I love him, and I love that, but being forced into social environments and out of my house by the dog does good things for me. Otherwise, I just... kind of turn into a paranoid, anxious hermit. 

That said, my favorite dog EVER, was an elderly little toy poodle rescue who was blind, deaf, had no teeth who broke into food containers (people food - like deli-take out) to gum the food and followed people around all day via nose to lick their ankles - or just sat on them. Now THAT was a low maintenance dog in most regards and I adored the HECK out of her while she was around. I still miss that dog and she was one of the very first dogs I 'fostered' (until she died).


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> There were a lot of birds at the trial last weekend. Like landing on the course in the middle of a run lot ofbirds. And a britt running. I am not sure I have ever appreciated more what innate instinct is. Talk about distraction! That dog was flushing birds all over the place. Screw agility!
> 
> My easy dog is not boring at all. She can get lost sometimes, I think, behind Mia but it just takes some effort to find things that enable her to really shine. She's 10 so not the most impressive sports dog but she has a lot of focus and try on her jobs. She always impresses me with her enthusiasm to work and recently her odor detection work has come along so nicely and the game is really clicking. She's nice and easy and super friendly. She's always happy to do things or not do things and is not fearful or reactive. And yet she's very focused on me. I think dogs like her are very underrated, quite frankly.


A few weeks ago we were at an all sporting dog conformation show indoors with birds landing in the rings. One of the Welshie people said "I guess it's a good test of bird dog instinct". Haha. Everytime I saw a bird I shoved liver at Watson and made him look away. The Winners Bitch we went against saw them though and almost lost it. Her poor 12 year old junior handler looked nervous that her dog might take off. 

My husband saw a bird almost fly into an ESS up on a grooming table and it didn't flinch. Not much hunting instinct left there. Watson would have jumped off the table and strangled himself to get at a sparrow.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

And yet at 10 she can still run at an agility trial for 2 days. Not the fastest dog by far but fast enough to be under course time and placing in the shortest dog height most times. She'd probably be equally as happy just going to a trial and getting passed from lap to lap.

She looooves running and going to the park but doesn't need it. She'll never demand it. But she loves it. 

I do get what you're saying. I like wild and crazy too. But I think some of the lower maintenance dogs can surprise you if you give them something to do.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> By sporting breeds I was referencing the spaniels, I don't care for the spaniels (sorry to anyone who owns them) and hounds.


I don't care if you don't like spaniels, but they're really nothing like hounds. Most are actually quite handler oriented - as much as the pointers anyway and they are bred to work closer with the hunter. And there are also way more non-spaniel sporting breeds than spaniels. So yeah, the whole statement was just wrong. It's the completely incorrect generalizations that bother me, not whether you like a breed or not.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

elrohwen said:


> A few weeks ago we were at an all sporting dog conformation show indoors with birds landing in the rings. One of the Welshie people said "I guess it's a good test of bird dog instinct". Haha. Everytime I saw a bird I shoved liver at Watson and made him look away. The Winners Bitch we went against saw them though and almost lost it. Her poor 12 year old junior handler looked nervous that her dog might take off.
> 
> My husband saw a bird almost fly into an ESS up on a grooming table and it didn't flinch. Not much hunting instinct left there. Watson would have jumped off the table and strangled himself to get at a sparrow.


It was incredible to watch the britt flush all the birds. Very methodical (and FAST and crazy!) but so intensely focused on the bird and to hell with everything else. Apparently they brought him to the trial specifically to work on the bird thing. I hadn't really thought about that being a potential issue with agility and the sporting breeds. None of the other dogs paid the birds any mind.

My dad is a bird dog person and used to raise/train pointers and he got a real kick out of that story.


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## littlesoprano (Sep 21, 2013)

To be honest as far as dogs go, Cosmo is just about the easiest dog I've ever met. He's almost 10 months old, and just the most well behaved little guy ever. I am pretty well bonded to him, but he's almost TOO easy. He's totally fine with just relaxing all day. He has no problem cuddling up with you all day (he has for the last week with my BF while he's been sick), he knows his commands extremely well, listens amid commotion, has manners, etc. But to be honest I think I would like a dog that was more challenging. I'm challenging myself, and I think I would love to have a dog where I would actually have to work to keep our relationship sound.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

littlesoprano said:


> To be honest as far as dogs go, Cosmo is just about the easiest dog I've ever met. He's almost 10 months old, and just the most well behaved little guy ever. I am pretty well bonded to him, but he's almost TOO easy. He's totally fine with just relaxing all day. He has no problem cuddling up with you all day (he has for the last week with my BF while he's been sick), he knows his commands extremely well, listens amid commotion, has manners, etc. But to be honest I think I would like a dog that was more challenging. I'm challenging myself, and I think I would love to have a dog where I would actually have to work to keep our relationship sound.


Don't write him getting difficult off yet. Kylie was the easiest, most well behaved, puppy in the world. Active and energetic and crazy about balls and learning and things, but easy.

Then she turned a year old (little over). She got reactive, lost some confidence in some areas, gained in others, become slightly dog-selective but mostly her need to be moving and working shot through the roof. She still settles well when she has to and you can take a day off but you're not getting away with more than that without some repercussions. Like screaming and eating the sofa.


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## LoMD13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Lola is extremely easy, I don't think our relationship would be better or deeper if she was higher maintenance. She's my go anywhere, try anything dog. Never have to worry about her getting fearful or reactive when we're out and about: so every day when I go out with her it's a positive awesome time. She gets cheeky and haughty on a daily basis, but she's just SO easy going and good natured at her core that even at her worst she's just funny.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I actually get worried when they are easy puppies lol. Josefina was an easy puppy, but she was a tough young adult. Then at about three or so she calmed down again.


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Ranger is a really easy dog. When the BF was sailing and I first got hurt, Ranger spent more time than he should of lounging in bed with me and didn't mind. (he still got out, but not nearly enough). This winter had some really bad clusters of days where he'd get potty breaks and a quick walk and it took until the third day before we had to actually go burn off the pent up energy. You can tell when he's bottled because he'll chase his own tail in the living room and then stay at you lol. 

On the other side of it though, he will go all day every day if I want. On Sunday we did agility class, then a huge walk through very mentally stimulating areas, and then that evening out for a play date for a couple hours. I really appreciate how good his off switch is though (which was made more apparent with Sophie...couldn't even sleep an extra half hour lol)


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> It was incredible to watch the britt flush all the birds. Very methodical (and FAST and crazy!) but so intensely focused on the bird and to hell with everything else. Apparently they brought him to the trial specifically to work on the bird thing. I hadn't really thought about that being a potential issue with agility and the sporting breeds. None of the other dogs paid the birds any mind.
> 
> My dad is a bird dog person and used to raise/train pointers and he got a real kick out of that story.


Watson would lose his mind if he saw a bird in agility. He's lost it a few times she he's seen cats around the training barn. I say he lacks focus, but he is extremely focused on birds and wildlife. When he's on deer you could beat him with a 2x4 and he wouldn't notice. It's just getting him to focus on what I want that can be challenging, but he doesn't lack focus at all when he's in drive. That's exactly why he's so good in nosework too. It's really cool to see, especially considering Welshies aren't hunted much anymore and his parents don't hunt. His intensity on wildlife matches any herding dog on sheep that I've seen, except that he needs more control still.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

elrohwen said:


> Watson would lose his mind if he saw a bird in agility. He's lost it a few times she he's seen cats around the training barn. I say he lacks focus, but he is extremely focused on birds and wildlife. When he's on deer you could beat him with a 2x4 and he wouldn't notice. It's just getting him to focus on what I want that can be challenging, but he doesn't lack focus at all when he's in drive. That's exactly why he's so good in nosework too. It's really cool to see, especially considering Welshies aren't hunted much anymore and his parents don't hunt. His intensity on wildlife matches any herding dog on sheep that I've seen, except that he needs more control still.




This is what I think the thing ultimately is:

How often does a owner have to compete with a flock of sheep or herd of cows for the dog's attention? Yeah, yeah, they work with people and take direction but you're working with that drive. Not trying to get them to run agility in the middle of a flock of sheep. You can't really control wildlife the same way; it is everywhere.

That's not a fault in the dog.


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## jade5280 (Feb 20, 2013)

elrohwen said:


> Watson would lose his mind if he saw a bird in agility. He's lost it a few times she he's seen cats around the training barn. I say he lacks focus, but he is extremely focused on birds and wildlife. When he's on deer you could beat him with a 2x4 and he wouldn't notice. It's just getting him to focus on what I want that can be challenging, but he doesn't lack focus at all when he's in drive. That's exactly why he's so good in nosework too. It's really cool to see, especially considering Welshies aren't hunted much anymore and his parents don't hunt. His intensity on wildlife matches any herding dog on sheep that I've seen, except that he needs more control still.


Ryker's prey drive is intense! With a lot of work he is okay with my cat but if he sees another cat outside or while we're driving in the car he goes NUTS. He hasn't seen a deer yet but he's seen turkeys and I could barely pull him away from them, even when we got into the house he was pacing and barking to get at the gobblers for a good 10 minutes. Lol I think It's pretty entertaining most of the time.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

jade5280 said:


> Ryker's prey drive is intense! With a lot of work he is okay with my cat but if he sees another cat outside or while we're driving in the car he goes NUTS. He hasn't seen a deer yet but he's seen turkeys and I could barely pull him away from them, even when we got into the house he was pacing and barking to get at the gobblers for a good 10 minutes. Lol I think It's pretty entertaining most of the time.


Watson is getting better. He's still a lost cause with deer, but he can get over small things like squirrels and birds more quickly. Today a squirrel darted in front of us and he flipped, but when I said leave it he could hear me still. He was pacing and intense, but he didn't hit the end of the long line and did come with me when I moved on. I was so proud! 6 months ago he would've been totally over threshold shrieking and unresponsive


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

I never truly do. Some days I just want to, you know, maybe sleep in and not walk/train my own dogs for hours a day, but overall they are just awesome. 

Jari is a young boy and currently going through a tough reactive phase (YAY other dogs are AWESOME I must bark at them on leash because I want them to plaayyyy with me foreverrrrr!), and his instincts are really coming out (OH IT'S A SQUIRREL. AND A BIRD. AND ANOTHER BIRD. I NEED TO TREE THEM NOW. DON'T CARE IF I HANG MYSELF WITH THE LEASSHHHH!!!! BARK BARK BARK.), but I know that it will get better. Just have to remain consistent. 

At least that's what I tell myself 

But I do love that my guys are really up for any adventure at any time. It's only after a couple of days with nothing that Bubbles and Pen start to go a little crazy, and Kimma is even getting better. Kind of. She just needs the mental energy drain more so than the physical. As a puppy she needed a ridiculous amount of both. Ask me in a few years about Jari LOL. And by then Kimma may be pretty calm, too!


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## CandyLeopard (Oct 14, 2013)

The only thing that I get fed up with sometimes, is the fact that he is driven to find and eat inedible things. I have to stay on top of what he might pick up and swallow indoors, and even when we go outside... It's frustrating because I don't want him to hurt himself by swallowing something harmful. He was off leash for a few minutes today and picked up/ate something by the dumpster. Might have been a paper bag, was hard to tell from the distance. -.- I was really hoping it was just a puppy phase.. But now I'm thinking it may just be him. He's almost 7 months now.

Besides that, he's perfect. Exactly what I wanted in a dog. Easily house trained, easy to teach commands/tricks, just the right amount of energy level, and also very cuddly.


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Jonas? Every day of my life. God help me and that little dog.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

That's what I like about my Dogs, they are up for anything but if I am not then they are like "well ok, just tell me when you are" but the bad thing is every time I move they are poised and all like like "ready now?" But if intell them no they will settle, but it's always there, right under the surface. Lol


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> That's what I like about my Dogs, they are up for anything but if I am not then they are like "well ok, just tell me when you are" but the bad thing is every time I move they are poised and all like like "ready now?" But if intell them no they will settle, but it's always there, right under the surface. Lol


This is the way to describe Ranger too...hanging out, but always poised to dash just under the surface.


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## melundie (Aug 2, 2011)

I totally understand where you're coming from. Some days-absolutely yes. When I'm sick and when I broke my foot a couple years ago all I wanted was dogs that could entertain themselves without a ton of input on my part. Fortunately, they both have an "off" switch, but are ready to go at a moments notice and if they're under-exercised/stimulated they definitely let me know. Behaviorally, there do seem to be times when we get over one hurdle and another one pops out of nowhere. I guess that's just the nature of the beast. For the most part I wouldn't change a thing. They keep me on my toes and force me think outside the box. Plus, they motivated to exercise.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

SDRRanger said:


> This is the way to describe Ranger too...hanging out, but always poised to dash just under the surface.


Now I think that if I didn't even exercise her then she would eventually show the repercussions of that, but it wouldn't be in the house since I never ever rile my dogs up or allow them to be riled up in the house. But she would be doing other annoyif things like digging (even exercised she still digs a little) and being a PITA to the other dogs lol.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

Even Summer pops up at a moment's notice. It's just life with a papillon. They stare and stare at you all day, stay underfoot and then go from asleep to zooming at the hint of anything fun. 

Now this morning I had a moment wishing Mia was toned down. 5 am she was barking at behind the fridge until I left at 7 am. So two hours of barking in the morning and digging at the wall. And I was half asleep. 

Probably a mouse.


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## sassafras (Jun 22, 2010)

My dogs really aren't THAT high maintenance, but sometimes I wish some things were easier. But really, those things are kind of essential to the things I love about them, too. I don't know why, and god help me, but I like dogs who aren't the easiest or the most biddable. There's just something about that personality I'm drawn to, so... ultimately no.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

the adult rescue Buddy is easy in a lot of aspects, he is not high energy, is quiet inside, is very neat and doesn't mess (unless he has a tummy upset or something ... which one can hardly blame him for) eats anything put in front of him and has no allergies that I have seen. 

His shortcomings (which are not his fault, it was the fault of the stupid person who raised him) are kind of annoying sometimes, he has a lot of fear issues and as soon as you start to do something he doesn't like he tries to leave, if he cant (like if you have him on a leash, he becomes like a fish on a hook :/. he has gotten better to a point, he will walk on a leash now and now enjoys walking, but I cant move anywhere with him because he doesn't tolerate change well at all.

If I ever adopt again, weather it will be from a rescue or a shelter, it will be puppies or teenage puppies from now on, because I find adult dogs just too set in their ways about some things. God bless the people who can make those huge changes in adults dogs with questionable pasts, but I am sad to say that I am just not one of those people


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## SDRRanger (May 2, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> Even Summer pops up at a moment's notice. It's just life with a papillon. They stare and stare at you all day, stay underfoot and then go from asleep to zooming at the hint of anything fun.


Maybe Ranger is a 65lbs pap in disguise.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Jubel isn't really high maintenance but he is a whiny brat who thrives on routine, really a monster of my own creation in a number of respects. Before bringing him home I had read how much dogs like having a set routine so I made it my goal to create that for my new dog. Well I did such a "good job" of this that he becomes a huge annoying brat when he thinks we are deviating from the routine. 

Main issue is he bases a lot of his expectations not on the time of day but the series of events. So if I come home early from work it doesn't matter that I'm home early, I'm home therefore it's time for a walk. If I decide to wait until closer to when I usually get home to go out for a walk he is likely to bitch and moan the majority of that time. The problem with just going for our walk early is that the entire "evening" routine is started and it's not just the walk. After the walk is dinner time, putting that off by much will incite bitching and moaning. I never actually give in and give him what he wants until he is quite for a decent amount of time but that hasn't deterred him. So if we go through all the the "evening" activities a few hours early he's going to think it's bedtime much earlier than normal too. Leaving work early can really be a double edged sword with Jubel haha. Yeah I'm out of work and home early...boo my dog is obnoxious.

It's kinda funny, he's so focused on the routine aspect in some ways it doesn't matter so much how long of a walk we actually go on sometimes just that we've met the routine and gone out for a walk. Often he'll act the same if we took a quick 20 minute walk in the morning or a 1.5-2.5 hour hike, 2-3pm rolls around and he's just as obnoxious about it being time for a walk.

Honestly that's his worst maintenance quality and I'm pretty sure I brought it all upon myself. For the most part he doesn't do this to my brother or my neighbors who have watched him while we were on vacation. So yes I wish I didn't have to deal with his bratty behaviors but not enough to do what would need to be done to "cure" it. As much as his desire to meet routine is annoying at times I AM a creature of habit and enjoy routine myself, just not as much as he does apparently haha.

As to the other discussions in the thread. I lucked out extremely with Jubel, he is very handler oriented and pretty damned biddable. If he thinks there is a possibility of food in it for him he'll work his butt off for me, all I have to do is get him to understand what it is I want from him. Part of that is age, he's 6 now but even when I got him around 2 he was pretty good at focusing on me. 

I like to think I'd prefer a less demanding dog but in reality I've had less demanding fosters and I just don't get as connected to them because it's easier to just do the bare minimum with them because they won't complain.


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## juliemule (Dec 10, 2011)

I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I didn't always have a tug/ball/rope/sleeve attached to me or throwing it lol.
When I was very pregnant on bed rest, I took a chair out back and would sling the chuckit for hours.

Training is fun for me, as well as the dogs. When I'm sick, we do slack, buy still do our walks. I have a dog yard for turn out time, and kennels if i have to do something else. 

I get extremely bored with "lower maintenance" dogs. I never sit still myself, so I guess its fitting


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

juliemule said:


> I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I didn't always have a tug/ball/rope/sleeve attached to me or throwing it lol.
> When I was very pregnant on bed rest, I took a chair out back and would sling the chuckit for hours.
> 
> Training is fun for me, as well as the dogs. When I'm sick, we do slack, buy still do our walks. I have a dog yard for turn out time, and kennels if i have to do something else.
> ...


this. (tooshort)


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