# Moved in with boyfriend and having trouble getting dog to respect me as alpha



## byrd8424 (Aug 29, 2011)

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So I could really use some advice. I have been with my boyfriend for a couple years now and the dog was already a part of his life. I never had an issue with Chance, our three and a half year Wired Fox Terrier, not respecting me. However, I moved into the house at the beginning of this summer and I am having issues. My boyfriend travels a lot for business so a lot of the time it is just me and Chance. Whenever I try to discipline him for barking, not listening, or even telling him to get off the bed, he will growl at me and even nip towards me. The only issue I have had with him actually biting me was on the boot when we were hiking because he would not leave a marmot hole. I don't think he would get really aggressive with me, but I was attacked by a dog when I was younger so it does make me really nervous. I really just don't know what to do at this point. I don't want to get "violent" with him by using a rolled up newspaper which is what was used on him when he was a puppy, I don't really agree with that, but at this point I really don't know what else to do. I have tried some of the alpha training techniques like holding him up and growling if he resists...but I must not be convincing enough and I am sure that he can tell it makes me nervous. My boyfriend tells me that Chance does not respect me because I am taking over his house...but I'm not going anywhere. 

So I guess if you have any advice or tips on how to get my dog to see me as his alpha I would really appreciate the help. 

Thanks
Byrd
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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

Show him that all good things in the environment come through you -- that you (and your boyfriend, but since he's not having problems, the dog appears to have already figured this out) make the sun rise and the wind blow. Right now it doesn't appear that you're building up any trust, affection, respect, understanding, or effective ways of communication with Chance. The dog doesn't understand why he should value you. You can attempt to achieve this by "holding him up and growling if he resists"... but you're actually probably scaring the piss out of him, and further damaging the relationship. Dogs understand trust, and you're teaching him that he can't trust you not to reach out and rough him up. Wolves and dogs would never exhibit this behavior (holding up/pinning down a dog/wolf and growling at signs of resistance), so I'm not sure why you/some people have chosen to use that as a technique. In wolves/dogs, "submissive" behaviors, like exposing the belly or laying down are offered voluntarily. They are not forced.

I suggest you start using a "Nothing In Life is Free" approach with this dog. Ask your boyfriend to let you take over most of Chance's care while you work on building understanding and fixing your relationship. Here's the topic on dogforums that talks about this approach: http://www.dogforums.com/dog-training-forum/6856-nilif-nothing-life-free.html . This website also has another interpretation of it: http://sue-eh.ca/page24/page8/ .

I would also suggest you do more research about "alpha theory" or "dominance theory" in dogs. I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of canine professionals don't subscribe to those views and have an alternative, scientifically studied and understood way of describing dog behavior and the causes for it. 

Here are some resources to get you started with that research:
http://sue-eh.ca/page24/page28/
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/dominance.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090521112711.htm
http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=12230

I also recommend you pick up the book The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell -- it REALLY helps explain why dogs do what they do!

P.S. OH MY GOD that dog is *CUTE*.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Cricket loops gave you some really good info.
Stop trying to "BE alpha". Do not physically discipline the dog, or growl at it. As you have seen, you can make them distrustful and bite. I'm guessing your boot got bit, becuase you tried to bump him out of the way of the marmot hole. The whole alpha theory has been disproven as stated above.

Start using positive training. NILF is great. Teach the dog to come, and teach him other commands like "Leave it", and "go to your bed/spot" (to get him off the bed.)


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

I agree with NILF and positive reinforcement.

One thing I tell all my family members to do at the very least is to get the message straight across that we are in control of all food, toys, furniture, etc. For example, before you give him his meal, "block it" from him, standing tall and assertive. If he keeps trying to get at the food, keep blocking with your body (don't touch him or anything, just block) until he's calm. Then give a command, and when he obeys QUICKlY, then you move and allow him to have access to the food. This tells the dog very simply that without you he will not eat, which is a basic survival need for dogs. The second thing to do, is only put his food down for 15 minutes, and take it away, no questions asked. Again, you're showing him that he doesn't own the food, you do.

NILF is great because it doesn't harm your dog, and fulfills the need of any breed to work for their food and shelter..

I hope things go well, my other dog is having some issues too and I know it can be tough but be patient and persistent and you'll see change come!


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

chubby said:


> The second thing to do, is only put his food down for 15 minutes, and take it away, no questions asked. Again, you're showing him that he doesn't own the food, you do.


I think this would be a good way for the OP to get her hand bitten by a dog who is already wary of her. Grabbing food from a dog doesn't necessarily show it you control food. It shows it that when you approach you are going to take its things. Snatching up a dogs half full food bowl while its eating isn't the way to earn its trust.


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

HerdersForMe said:


> I think this would be a good way for the OP to get her hand bitten by a dog who is already wary of her. Grabbing food from a dog doesn't necessarily show it you control food. It shows it that when you approach you are going to take its things. Snatching up a dogs half full food bowl while its eating isn't the way to earn its trust.


If you're afraid of your dog attacking you if you control his food and toys, then you really need to seek the help of a dog behaviouralist. But from what I know, leaving food out all day is not the best way to show your dog that all good things do come from you. They just see the food magically appear.

If your dog needs 30 minutes to eat, extend the time to 30 minutes. The 15 minute rule is just a standard that trainers will go by.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

chubby said:


> You dog seems to get aggressive when disciplined, but is there evidence of resource guarding? If your dog is resource guarding, then yes, this method is dangerous and you should seek a professional, but this technique is really for those dogs that are not going to full out attack you


Resource guarding or not I don't think snatching the dog's food bowl is a good method of earning its trust. If anything it is just going to encourage resource guarding. The OP is clearly not on good grounds with this dog yet.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

HerdersForMe said:


> I think this would be a good way for the OP to get her hand bitten by a dog who is already wary of her. Grabbing food from a dog doesn't necessarily show it you control food. It shows it that when you approach you are going to take its things. Snatching up a dogs half full food bowl while its eating isn't the way to earn its trust.


Agree and disagree with this. If your dog has become aggressive with you in the past over resources, then you absolutely should not attempt to take food from the dog. That's going to get you bitten and it's going to make it a lot harder to fix your dog's resource aggression. Actually, I would never take food from an eating dog unless I was planning to offer him something better or give the food back to him as I never want him to form the association that giving up his stuff to me is unpleasant for him -- that's a perfect way to create guarding behavior in a dog. Even then I really prefer teaching him to voluntarily offer up his food to me if I request it. Teaching a cue, or something, like, "Can I have this?" that causes the dog to back away from the object it's busy with is much better than forcibly taking something from him. If a dog gives you something just because you asked, and is HAPPY about doing so, then we've got what I consider the ideal relationship.

I do agree that it's important to teach your dog to eat, but I think this is more important for dogs who are picky eaters. It also teaches dogs to become more enthusiastic about meal times, which helps with training. It puts them on a reliable schedule so you can better time #2's as well. 

My dogs are formally fed a dinner once a day (their breakfast meal is turned into treats that are used throughout the day), as I really love a formal meal time for teaching impulse control and reinforcing myself as the provider of amazing things. They are asked to wait outside of the kitchen while I prepare their food and put it in separate spots around the kitchen. Then they're invited to come into the kitchen and eat. They're given a specific amount of time to eat, sort of -- I don't really care if they finish it in 15 minutes, but I do care that they're consistently making progress and don't "quit" on eating. If they make the choice, for example, to back away from the food bowl and go investigate someone else's empty dish or the other room, then fine, but they've lost the remainder of their food for that meal.

I guess my point is that when you start taking things away from dogs, you have to make sure they understand that their actions have caused the removal of the resource, and that they have the ability to earn/keep that resource by exhibiting whatever you've taught them is good behavior. If you don't make this clear, they learn that sometimes, for no reason, you take the things they love. Does this create respect? I'm not really sure, but it seems more likely to make you seem like a bully. Does it create trust? Absolutely not. Is it a recipe to create a resource guarding problem? Definitely. I would avoid it, but if you feel as though it's necessary, get a certified animal behaviorist to evaluate the situation and create a training plan with you.


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

Please don't misunderstand my post. you're not taking his food away when he only had a 1/4 of it....let him eat it, and he should be done 15-30 minutes give or take. Just don't leave a full bowl of food out for him all day. Usually my puppy will finish her food in 20 minutes, but if its not done, and she's playing with her toy, I take the food away so she knows the next time she gets it is her next meal.

I believe that trust is gained through consistency and fairness. If you are consistently and fairly providing for your dog, she will grow to depend on you and trust that you will provide for her and not leave her starving. This is how I work to gain respect from my dog:
1. Don't get frustrated, angry, sad, when your dog doesn't listen.
2. If you want your dog to complete a task (ex. sit), follow through and make sure they do it (in a positive way, of course - ex. give treats!)
3. Why is your dog not listening to you? Maybe it's fear, uncertaintly, or just stubbornness. Really study your dog and understand where the root problem is
4. Reward each time a task is completed (ex. performs the "off" command)
5. Stay consistent! Dogs need routine, structure and consistency. Meal times is just another way to provide routine and structure. Just like a child, a dog needs to know when food is coming, and how long they can have it for. We don't give kids 2 hours lunch breaks during school - they get 1 hour lunch break, and no one really complains, do they?


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't disagree with teaching a dog to eat and eat on schedule. I think it's quite crucial. I wouldn't advise the OP to start trying to teach this with a dog that clearly doesn't trust her though.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

chubby said:


> Please don't misunderstand my post. you're not taking his food away when he only had a 1/4 of it....let him eat it, and he should be done 15-30 minutes give or take. Just don't leave a full bowl of food out for him all day. Usually my puppy will finish her food in 20 minutes, but if its not done, and she's playing with her toy, I take the food away so she knows the next time she gets it is her next meal.





chubby said:


> The second thing to do, is only put his food down for 15 minutes, and take it away, no questions asked. Again, you're showing him that he doesn't own the food, you do.


Sorry. From the first post it sounded like you meant something very different.


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## chubby (Aug 18, 2011)

HerdersForMe said:


> Sorry. From the first post it sounded like you meant something very different.


I apologize, the first post does sound strict/unfair and misleading. To withhold food that the dog clearly needs is completely wrong and a form of abuse. Obviously you need to feed your dog what he needs every day. The 15 minutes rule is to train your dog to eat during meal times, which is dictated by you. It's not cruel, or a form of torture. It's structure, consistency and routine. I personally give my puppy 30 minutes because she eats one kibble at a time, and it takes her a really long time to finish eating. 

To reiterate from the first post, I still completely believe that a dog needs to learn that you own the food, and the toys. He doesn't work everyday, nor does he go out to the store and buy them. You are his parent, and as such he should respect you as the provider. At the same time, it's crucial that you show him a lot of love and attention. Take him out for long walks, to the dog park, to the pet store, everywhere! He will associate you with doing fun things outside the house, and also form a stronger bond with you. If you can only choose one activity, definitely go for the nice long walk. Running in a yard is not the same.

Again, this is just a general belief I have when I start raising a puppy, but seeking professional help is always better 

And yes, please don't use any kind of physical punishment. Discipline is not about physical force, but having clear expectations from your dog and enforcing those expectations. Physical punishment can lead to having a fearful/aggressive dog which is dangerous.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

HerdersForMe said:


> Sorry. From the first post it sounded like you meant something very different.


I agree, it sounded very different. I myself, was just about to post about this.
I agree that your dog should know that you are in control of all things good. But, I don't agree with taking food from a dog (unless, as HerdersForMe says, you're working on trading up, or giving him something better in return, but that would be a project, not a right away kind of action, something to build up to).

IMO, taking away something a dog considers important, can make a dog feel like they need to defend it. Again, it's my opinion, but I have seen and heard of situations where someone was told to take away food, to teach their dog that the human is in control, and it actually _caused _resource guarding where none existed before.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

byrd8424 said:


> So I could really use some advice. I have been with my boyfriend for a couple years now and the dog was already a part of his life. I never had an issue with Chance, our three and a half year Wired Fox Terrier, not respecting me. However, I moved into the house at the beginning of this summer and I am having issues. My boyfriend travels a lot for business so a lot of the time it is just me and Chance. Whenever I try to discipline him for barking, not listening, or even telling him to get off the bed, he will growl at me and even nip towards me.


Does he even understand these signals coming from you? 

Notice I said coming from YOU. "My bf gets him to do it." You're not your bf. Your dog knows this. Your signals are different. You may have no working relationship with the dog. Punishment for behaviors the dog doesn't know how to give in response to your signals will make it more difficult. 

Establish this by teaching the dog what your signals mean. You'll build a relationship with him while teaching him that your signals mean certain things too. 

A significant change in context requires re-teaching. A whole new person giving the signals is a pretty big shift in context.




byrd8424 said:


> The only issue I have had with him actually biting me was on the boot when we were hiking because he would not leave a marmot hole. I don't think he would get really aggressive with me, but I was attacked by a dog when I was younger so it does make me really nervous. I really just don't know what to do at this point. I don't want to get "violent" with him by using a rolled up newspaper which is what was used on him when he was a puppy, I don't really agree with that, but at this point I really don't know what else to do.


You're right about getting physical - that won't work (well). 




byrd8424 said:


> I have tried some of the alpha training techniques like holding him up and growling if he resists...but I must not be convincing enough and I am sure that he can tell it makes me nervous. My boyfriend tells me that Chance does not respect me because I am taking over his house...but I'm not going anywhere.


What is holding him up supposed to do besides possible scaring him or confirming to him that you are a threat that needs to be growled off? 

You're not "taking over", but you are a new entity. The dog isn't necessarily going to say "oh hai, I'll do everything you want even though I don't even understand your signals to know what you want."

I remember my arrival in Wally's life. He wanted absolutely zero to do with me and was lost, confused, and scared. Step one is getting him to understand I'm not going to eat him. Step two was teaching him what I want him to do in a non-threatening way. "Alpha techniques" don't teach him what my words and hand signals, etc, mean. 




byrd8424 said:


> So I guess if you have any advice or tips on how to get my dog to see me as his alpha I would really appreciate the help.


Teach him what you want him to do. Forget if he knows it already - he doesn't know how to do it *for you* because you're a new context on top of any uncertainty he might have about you. 

You'll have to build a working relationship as well as a bond with him. You can do all of this by training with him and teaching him what to do. I would stop with all physical approaches like holding him up and all that. 

You may also have to try desensitization if you think the dog is growling at you out of fear or any other negative association/emotion. You want to correct that before you do anything else.

"Alphas" guide, protect, provide, teach as well as discipline. It sounds like from your post that it's been discipline - but not much guiding and teaching of how to do these things for you.


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Sorry if I missed something but if dog is not eating the food in 15 minutes it probably means the bowl is abandoned and dog is elsewhere, resource guarding does not enter into the equation. I am old school food is picked up and then if necessary to hurry the program next day's food is skipped (I only feed once a day with 90% of dogs) Usually by next feeding most dogs get with the program. This is not "to do advice" this is just way I do it.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

True, but some breeds/dogs you can't ever "win over" OH has been trying to do the same with Izze since he moved in 5 yrs ago lol. Heck she stayed with my folks for a while, they fed her, took her out, provided her every need & she STILL didn't respect them or listen to them. In fact that's why I had to take her BC she was so naughty for them lol.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

dogdragoness said:


> True, but some breeds/dogs you can't ever "win over" OH has been trying to do the same with Izze since he moved in 5 yrs ago lol. Heck she stayed with my folks for a while, they fed her, took her out, provided her every need & she STILL didn't respect them or listen to them. In fact that's why I had to take her BC she was so naughty for them lol.


Doesn't that mean it just takes more than feeding, taking for walks, and providing to win over the dog, not that you can't ever win the dog over?

I mean, I fed Wally, took him for walks, tended to his needs - but that's not going to make him trust me - I had to specifically work towards it. Not just be like "I fed you, dog, now obey."

I don't believe there's a dog you can't possibly win over. It might take "more time than is practical" or whatever, but that doesn't automatically imply impossibility.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> True, but some breeds/dogs you can't ever "win over" OH has been trying to do the same with Izze since he moved in 5 yrs ago lol. Heck she stayed with my folks for a while, they fed her, took her out, provided her every need & she STILL didn't respect them or listen to them. In fact that's why I had to take her BC she was so naughty for them lol.


Depends on what you mean by win over. It's not likely that Izze will ever have the same regard or affection for someone who isn't you, but not "respecting" or listening to those people isn't a problem with Izze, it's a problem with the way they're communicating.

If you're clearly communicating to the dog that you're in control of all sources of reinforcement, and that the only way to access that reinforcement is to follow commands, you'll have a dog that "respects" you. If you're not communicating that, then you get a dog that ignores you and indulges in reinforcing bad behavior. So the problem, then, is with the method of communication and not the dog or the breed.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

So you guys dont believe he "one person dog" adage? That some dogs have (in their mind) only one "master". Just curious.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

I personally believe in the "one _favorite_ person dog". I am Harper's favorite person, my fiance is Abby's favorite person. They will respond to commands from both of us, they will cuddle with both of us, but Harper is quicker to respond and cuddle with me, while Abby is quicker to respond and cuddle with fiance.


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## CricketLoops (Apr 18, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> So you guys dont believe he "one person dog" adage? That some dogs have (in their mind) only one "master". Just curious.





doxiemommy said:


> I personally believe in the "one _favorite_ person dog". I am Harper's favorite person, my fiance is Abby's favorite person. They will respond to commands from both of us, they will cuddle with both of us, but Harper is quicker to respond and cuddle with me, while Abby is quicker to respond and cuddle with fiance.



That's the way I feel, too. Dogs most definitely have preferences, and there are definitely dogs and breeds that strongly bond to one person only. There are even some breeds of dogs that you will likely never be able to get affection from, no matter how hard you try. Sometimes the best you can get with these dogs is acknowledgment of your ability to give them things. 

But there isn't a dog that can't learn that humans are in control of all resources, and that performing commands for those humans gets the resources. There isn't a dog that can't learn "x action gets me a valuable reward" if the action is explained well enough for the dog to understand. If I can teach a bobcat that jumping on platforms when asked is the way to get food, I can teach a dog that sitting when asked is the way to get food.


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

doxiemommy said:


> I personally believe in the "one _favorite_ person dog". I am Harper's favorite person, my fiance is Abby's favorite person. They will respond to commands from both of us, they will cuddle with both of us, but Harper is quicker to respond and cuddle with me, while Abby is quicker to respond and cuddle with fiance.


I am Izze's fave person, Josefina seems to love both of us pretty equally, but perhaps not. She seems to respond quicker to commands from me then OH, she will listen to OH... But not as quickly as she does with me, but he does a few annoying things with her that i wish he wouldn't do lol, like saying commands repeatedly instead of saying it once & waiting on her to do the behavior... But he doesn't have the patience for that lol, i always give him hell about it .


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

dogdragoness said:


> So you guys dont believe he "one person dog" adage? That some dogs have (in their mind) only one "master". Just curious.


Nope.

I believe in conditioned/learned behaviors and that dogs are capable of learning that if you want good things from person X, listen to what person X wants.

I believe that person X needs to work with the dog so that the dog can learn person X's signals, voice, and behavior patterns and for the pair to build a relationship. I believe person X will need to be patient with the dog, even if person X knows the dog understands all the cues and such he/she is giving. 

If it were true that a dog will listen to/consider only one person in their lives "master", then how would rescued dogs and such function? 

I do not believe a dog will single out just one person for the rest of their lives as the only one their ever bond with. I do believe dogs bond, will feel the loss of a bond, and need to go through an adjustment period, but I don't think this means they will NEVER accept another person in their lives because their "one person" is not in their life anymore.

To use Wally as an example, if he only considered his past people his people, how could my mom and I have him consider us as his people as well? If dogs can't learn to form new bonds and relationships, how can Wally and I go from an "uneasy peace" to steadfast allies? And this is with a dog that has/had a suspicious, wary, and fearful nature.

Another Wally example, both me and my mom have a strong relationship with Wally. If a dog can only have "one master" or "one person", how does he show a bond with both of us?


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## wvasko (Dec 15, 2007)

Well maybe it's the same ability we have with friends, some can be best friends, some just friends, and then acquaintances.

I think also that it does not rule out completely the possibility of a one person dog or as in Wally's case maybe 2 person dogs. Surely with the many people and dogs in the world anything while not probable might be possible. That's my story/belief and I'm gonna stick to it cause it just makes me feel good.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

Dogs become attached to one person when there is one person who is providing the most attention and resources. If you're the one who feeds the dog, trains it the most, and walks it the most of course the dog is going to favor you over everyone else. It's choosing you because it trusts you and knows you will provide what it needs.


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## KBLover (Sep 9, 2008)

HerdersForMe said:


> Dogs become attached to one person when there is one person who is providing the most attention and resources. If you're the one who feeds the dog, trains it the most, and walks it the most of course the dog is going to favor you over everyone else. It's choosing you because it trusts you and knows you will provide what it needs.


Right, except I'm not the only one doing that and it's not as those Wally will blow me off to go with her or her off to go with me. In fact, he's often conflicted about who to follow if we go in different places or are doing things (like if I help with her garden or such, and Wally's just hanging out), and often, he'll sit/lay where he has sight of both of us. So why doesn't he just pick his favorite and follow one of us around? 

I think dogs can have a multitude of people they really enjoy and to be around, not just one. It depends on the experiences of the dog, imo. If the dog is surrounded by lots of people that all take care of, spend time with, and are good to the dog in general, the dog could very well like them all, not just pick one.

So, no, I don't believe that dogs "will" have just one person they stick to and that's just it. It depends on what's going on in the dog's life.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

KBLover said:


> I think dogs can have a multitude of people they really enjoy and to be around, not just one. It depends on the experiences of the dog, imo. If the dog is surrounded by lots of people that all take care of, spend time with, and are good to the dog in general, the dog could very well like them all, not just pick one.


That's kind of what I was implying but didn't directly say. That's the situation with our dogs, there's no clear "favorite" between my GF and myself because we tend to share duties equally (feeding, walking, training, etc).


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## xxxxdogdragoness (Jul 22, 2010)

Izze has known my folks for as long as she has been alive, they even have cared for her on more then a few occasions but if she is with them & I even think about walking away, I dont even have to do it & she is right there at my side waiting.


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## HerdersForMe (Jul 26, 2011)

dogdragoness said:


> Izze has known my folks for as long as she has been alive, they even have cared for her on more then a few occasions but if she is with them & I even think about walking away, I dont even have to do it & she is right there at my side waiting.


Because you feed them and train them and provide shelter.


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