# Head collars: what's your take on them?



## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm in the process of teaching my very strong-willed Lab/GSD mix, Bambi, to walk gently on a leash. So far things are going well... but that's only because we haven't tried my methods outside yet.

I've been watching "It's Me or the Dog", and Victoria always uses head collars to help with the training of the dog on a leash. Now, you must be aware that I don't plan on using the head collar (or whatever I decide to use) forever. It's just a tool to help me keep control of the dog so that I can get her walking on a regular harness. But what is everyone's take on them here? Do they actually help? What are the advantages/disadvantages? Are they "dangerous" to the dog?

Any answers you have will be a great help!


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Eyssa said:


> I've been watching "It's Me or the Dog", and Victoria always uses head collars to help with the training of the dog on a leash. Now, you must be aware that I don't plan on using the head collar (or whatever I decide to use) forever. It's just a tool to help me keep control of the dog so that I can get her walking on a regular harness.


 what do you mean by regular harness?



Eyssa said:


> But what is everyone's take on them here? Do they actually help?


i love them. i think they are a HUGE help. for example, we had an older woman who had her dog in training, she walked with 2 canes- what she was thinking getting a young lab mix, i dont know- anyway, to help we put the head collar on him, and did a little training work. she could walk him then.


Eyssa said:


> What are the advantages/disadvantages?


advantages are, it corrects the dog itsself, it really helps training... oh theres a ton of them

the biggest disadvantage i would say is that not every dog will wear them. ive seen some dogs flip out and paw at their face, making themselves bleed trying to get it off


Eyssa said:


> Are they "dangerous" to the dog?


and tool can be dangerous. a flat buckle collar can be dangerous! its all about proper use!


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

I used one for a while with my lunatic Golden. I was recooping from knee surgery, and the boy was hurting me on a regular basis. It worked as advertised, and gave me enough control of a powerful and extremely reactive dog that we got through that time without either of us killing the other.

I did not see any particular long-term training benefit from it however. That might be because the dog was completely aware of my DA status and took full advantage of my lameness, every chance he got. I swear, sometimes he'd look at me as if I was a sick gazelle that wasn't able to keep up with the herd. Overall, I'd say it worked well, but had limited training utility for my dog. It may just have been our unusual circumstance, though.

It did make me extremely nervous when I thought about what might happen if he ever managed to get away from me. Snagging the leash while running in a Gentle Leader ought to be good for a broken neck.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

I noticed that many Service Dogs were wearing Gentle Leaders. I had a puppy (Maddy, who is now 7.5 yrs. old) who was a "wild maniac," headstrong, and whipped me all over the place! LOL (She was magnificent!) My thumb joints are destroyed - bone on bone - and I cannot even open a bandaid - seriously. The pain is really bad, and, joint replacement could make things worse, not better, so I have not had the surgery. So. I tried the GL. Wow. What a wonderful tool. Today, Maddy does not "need" a GL to "control" her, because she doesn't even need a collar or leash. However, when wearing the GL, she is a "different" dog. She's more gentle, very careful with me in all ways, and, in "work mode." Even so, while wearing a flat buckle collar, she is STILL very responsive to me. I use the GL when taking her out with me for public access, because she associates the GL with "it's time to work." That's ok with me. 

Beau, who was a reactive lunger, barker, and snarling "beast," never needed any collar to change his behavior. He's very aware of me, gentle, and always "checking in" as we move along outside. I could put a ribbon around his neck and not worry. 

Puppy Lucia is a wild, leaping maniac, at 5 months, and we're a work in progress! LOL Last week she was very demure on lead; today, she's a maniac! So far, a soft word from me ( her name, or "easy") stops her pulling; she moves back into place, looks up at me, grinning, and we move along, with me telling her how clever and sweet she is. I use a show lead on her because she's about to launch her career in the AKC Conformation show world, and we have to be very aware of hair, and preventing damage! LOL This weekend is her debut; just a puppy match with no points, just getting her acclimated with the show ring, to see how she does.


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

I have a question about head collars, as I'm considering trying them as well. What type do you use?


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## pattymac (Oct 11, 2008)

I started using Bayley's again a while ago. I like it and I also don't plan on using it forever. For now, because our on leash walks aren't all that regular, it helps alot. I find that it keeps her calmer, especially when we meet up with other dogs. I don't have to worry about her dragging me all over the place and she walks very nicely with her leash usually dragging on the ground. If I'm in our slightly larger town, she automatically walks nicely beside me. As a result, I'm more relaxed and comfortable on our walks and so is she.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

> GreatDaneMom
> Re: Head collars: what's your take on them?
> 
> what do you mean by regular harness?


I just meant a harness in general. Right now I'm using the so-called "anti-pull" harnesses... the type that have a collar-ish thing around the dog's neck and padded straps under both forelegs, hooking at the top. Supposedly it's job is to pull on the dog's underarms and make her feel uncomfortable. Well... that's it's theory, but it doesn't work worth anything.



> Mac'N'Roe
> Re: Head collars: what's your take on them?
> 
> I have a question about head collars, as I'm considering trying them as well. What type do you use?


I was just about to ask that as well. 



Also... I'd like to know where you'd be able to buy them? Would Petco carry them?


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## Mac'N'Roe (Feb 15, 2008)

I know there are two types that are common...the Gentle Leader and the Halti. I know you can get the Gentle Leader at PetSmart...I'm sure Petco carries them too in the area where the leashes and harnesses are.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

Ah... just checked on the Petco website, and they both have the Gentle Leader and Halti.


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## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

I use a gentle pack leader, a halti collar. I'm curious to know how a dog can break their neck with them?? I see know way how she could. The collar sits below the ears and then the piece that goes around the muzzle. The muzzle piece tightens if they pull too much and slacks off when they don't pull. To me it's just like a horse halter without the bit in the mouth..
When I can't control Dakota who is a jumping pulling nut this collar is the only one that works. it's like night and day. Of course she hates it and tries to get it off and rolls around on the ground a few times on our walks but it has helped soo much. I want to use a normal collar and leash in the future but for now it saves me and her from her choking and strangling herself


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

Mac'N'Roe said:


> I know there are two types that are common...the Gentle Leader and the Halti. I know you can get the Gentle Leader at PetSmart...I'm sure Petco carries them too in the area where the leashes and harnesses are.


The Gentle Leader is a better fit on dogs with longer muzzles. The Halti a better fit on dogs with shorter muzzles.


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## Wynpyp (Sep 19, 2008)

We used the gentle leader with Bayne and it was awesome! Within a couple of weeks we could walk him normally and we haven't used it in a long time. 

My girlfriend is using a gentle leader with her rescued Dobe and it works for her as well. The only problem she's having is that it has been 2 months and she still hasn't been able to phase it out yet.


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## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

the other day I had to go to Walmart where I got my other one and they where sold out. I live in a smaller town so had to run to the city to get a bigger one for her. i sure notice dogs around town are behaving when walking, could it be the collar? LOL


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## skelaki (Nov 9, 2006)

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/gl.htm This is a good article about them. I think they're a tool like any other. And like any other tool they have their uses and can be abused.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

> dakotajo
> Re: Head collars: what's your take on them?
> 
> the other day I had to go to Walmart where I got my other one and they where sold out. I live in a smaller town so had to run to the city to get a bigger one for her. i sure notice dogs around town are behaving when walking, could it be the collar? LOL


Walmart has head collars?


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## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

yes, they do here so imagine at every walmart, probably alot cheaper too

it also can be used as a regular collar, my plan is to use it the halti way while walking and while she's walking good, slip the loop off the muzzle, see how she walks without it, if she pulls again slip the loop back on and continue doing this over and over to see if she gets what I'm trying to show her, by pulling means the way she hates it and not pulling is the way we like it. I hope she catches on to this, she is only 8 months and being a Bernese she a strong puller


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

I tried a Halti head collar in the past and didn't have very much luck with it...even with loose leash training. 

I got a Gentle Leader head collar about 5 months ago and I swear by them! With a little training to get her used to it and walking with a loose leash she heels like a charm now. She was very strong willed on the leash before (we tried a martingale and a halter...which only seemed to make her worse!) but the GL head collar is amazing!

I also just watched and interesting traning technique on It's Me or the Dog where Victoria walked the pit bull with a leash attached to a regular collar and a seperate leash attached to a GL/Halti. She walked the dog with the collar and then used the head collar when he started to pull. She wasn't using corrections (because she doesn't train that way) but it was really interesting to watch - I thought it would be a great way to transition between a GL and a regular collar although I plan to keep Bridgette on a head collar.


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## SMoore (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm just not sure what type of training you can do with a headcollar. They don't seem like a training tool to me (you can't correct with them or give a correction) i believe that would be considered misuse.

From what I gather you let the dog self correct but from what i've seen it just leads to a frustrated dog. I have one and have used it in the past but it didn't work as well for me or my dog.

It's whatever works for you but i'd suggest having someone show you how to properly use a prong collar. They look scary but are one of the safer training tools when used properly.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

> dakotajo
> Re: Head collars: what's your take on them?
> 
> yes, they do here so imagine at every walmart, probably alot cheaper too


Hm, well I'll have to check in there next time I visit good old Wally World. I never new they sold them there... maybe I just missed them. : )



> SMoore
> Re: Head collars: what's your take on them?
> 
> I'm just not sure what type of training you can do with a headcollar. They don't seem like a training tool to me (you can't correct with them or give a correction) i believe that would be considered misuse.
> ...


I'm just not quite sure who to ask about how to use a prong collar... and you're right, they do look scary. I honestly don't know anyone who'd be able to show me. And as far as training with a head collar... I'm more interested in getting something that will let me have control over the dog rather than having my arms yanked out of their sockets. ;-) I've got a training method going, but it's difficult with a choker (I hate chokers anyhow) and my dog slips easily out of her nylon collar... in which case I need to get a new collar. I just need something that'll keep me from tumbling down whilst training her.


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## dakotajo (Jan 29, 2009)

okay, Gentle leader head collar, I'm getting confused  Is it the same one as I described above that the loop tightens arounds the muzzle when they pull? and it's only on the head? Eyssa- Walmart had a couple of different types there


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

dakotajo said:


> okay, Gentle leader head collar, I'm getting confused  Is it the same one as I described above that the loop tightens arounds the muzzle when they pull? and it's only on the head? Eyssa- Walmart had a couple of different types there


the loop should never tighten on either the GL or the Halti. 

both collars only fit the head, the go around the muzzle, and around behind the skullbone. nothing more.

also to add, im not sure i would try the ones walmart sells, theyre probably poorly made knock-offs, and im thinking youre going to find yourself in a heap of trouble if they break while walking.

Eyessa: have you been properly shown how to use a choke? a choke is more dangerous than a prong. if you have a dog who slips their collar you might want to look into a martingale style collar.

as far as having your arms yanked out of their sockets, have you tried a head collar? if not, how do you know your outcome? head collars provide a LOT of control. they are designed under the same kind of principles as a horse halter, though they use calming pressure points as well. a dog cant run away with you if you have its head.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

> Eyessa: have you been properly shown how to use a choke? a choke is more dangerous than a prong. if you have a dog who slips their collar you might want to look into a martingale style collar.


Yes, I've been shown... or more like read about it, actually. I've abandoned it for the "anti-pull" harness... which should really be called the opposite of its name. Tonight we took Bambi for a short walk around town, and both my brother and I were holding her on a leash (him with one leash, me with another). It was all we could do to keep from tripping over one another and being dragged across the road...

And what is a Martingale collar? I'm afraid I've never heard of that before...


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

Eyssa said:


> Yes, I've been shown... or more like read about it, actually. I've abandoned it for the "anti-pull" harness... which should really be called the opposite of its name. Tonight we took Bambi for a short walk around town, and both my brother and I were holding her on a leash (him with one leash, me with another). It was all we could do to keep from tripping over one another and being dragged across the road...
> 
> And what is a Martingale collar? I'm afraid I've never heard of that before...


Yeah harnesses and halters often cause dogs to pull more. Bridgette was absolutely a nightmare when we put a harness on her! 

A martingale is also called a limited slip collar. They are often used with greyhounds because they help with dogs that slip their collars. Here is a good link describing a martingale and how they work...
Martingale Collars

ETA: I have on for Bridgette and they do work well for training and dealing with pulling. But I found the head collar works better.

I've been told the head collar is something like a horse's head collar (bridle?). When they want to pull the collar turns their head so that they cannot keep walking forwards. This is how it seems to work with us. Bridgette tried to continue pulling for a very short distance but it pulls her head to the side and she cannot continue pulling. She now walks directly by my side with a slack leash.


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## Love's_Sophie (Sep 23, 2007)

Eyssa said:


> I just meant a harness in general.


See, here's the thing about harnesses...they were originally 'created' to TEACH a dog to pull...

Now, I know there are people who have success with these new fangled 'no pull' or 'gentle lead' harnesses, but in my humble opinion, a harness should only be used on a dog who IS pulling, or has throat problems that would be hindered by a collar. 

For my own dogs, they wear a harness when they ride on the front seat of the car (to keep them strapped in), or when I take them to a large area, where letting them fully off lead might not be totally safe...for those occasions, I also have a Long lead, or Flexi on, so they can meander about, without getting tangled in the leash. 

As far as the GL, I have used one on my poodle puppy quite a bit, and it can really help them focus 'foward', and turns their heads around when they try to turn around, or lunge forward. As with any tool, you'll have to judge for yourself how your dog will handle the head collar...It may work well, or he may not like it.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

I have no problems with head collars. As with all training tools, they have the potential to be abused if not fit right, or used too roughly... but they are harder to do damage with than other anti-pull tools out there like chokes and prongs. Chokes and prongs have their place in dog training but if I were recommending something to an amateur trainer I would definitely push the head collar instead.


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

rosemaryninja said:


> I have no problems with head collars. As with all training tools, they have the potential to be abused if not fit right, or used too roughly... but they are harder to do damage with than other anti-pull tools out there like chokes and prongs. Chokes and prongs have their place in dog training but if I were recommending something to an amateur trainer I would definitely push the head collar instead.


Definitely agree that head collars can be used wrong too. They do seem to cause less damage as they aren't hitting the throat, but I've seen people yanking the snot out of them at the clinic with a head collar. People really just need to do a bit of research before they use anything for training. Most commonly though I see people not fitting the strap of a head collar behind the ears properly. It should be snug or it won't work the way it's supposed. And the loop over the muzzle should be snug, but not tight enough that the dog can't have movement of it's mouth (so many people think Bridgette's is a muzzle! gah!)


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## zimandtakandgrrandmimi (May 8, 2008)

I see head collars work well but I won't use one because the dogs I end up training are almost exclusively Pit Bull and it looks like a muzzle from a distance...damaging chances of socialization...same thing with the prong except I wouldn't use a prong period because I don't ever use active corrections. positive only please.

I use a flat buckle and on reactive and DA dogs I use a loose martingale to prevent the dog backing out of the collar.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't know about "less damage" with the improper use of head halters. I don't know of dogs who've been hurt with them, but I don't see many in use either. If an over zealous handler really put his back into a prong collar correction on a lunging dog, the result would probably be no worse than hurt feelings. With a head halter, I think a serious neck injury would be very likely. The physics of the device looks to be very unforgiving of [email protected]


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

Very true, assuming the prong collar is fit properly. It's not easy to fit a prong well, and a poorly-fit prong can do some really serious damage.


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## jbray01 (Dec 26, 2007)

i got one because Rosie is a terrible puller. i have her on the easy walk harness and it doesn't work too well for me. i talked to a lot of people who used the head collar and swore by it, so i tried it and hated it.

the entire time she has it on, she tries to get it off. i try to give her treats to reinforce not messing with it, but it didnt work. i walked her around the block with it and she came back bleeding from trying to get it off.

so i stopped using it after about a week and a half. yes i know i didnt give it much time, but i thought i'd give it another try after her nose healed, but i dont know if i want to deal with that stress again...

so basically for me it was a waste of $30


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## mkoranda (Dec 10, 2008)

I tried the GL head collar with my lab mix. I definitely had more control with it but Marley hated. I continued to use it for several weeks and she would not tolerate it. I think I had it fitted correctly; I watched the DVD.

I had someone fit her for a prong collar and that seems to work well for us. She seems to self-correct with it. I also would not like to use that forever. We are taking an obedience class and work daily on loose leash walking.


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

zimandtakandgrrandmimi said:


> I see head collars work well but I won't use one because the dogs I end up training are almost exclusively Pit Bull and it looks like a muzzle from a distance...damaging chances of socialization...same thing with the prong except I wouldn't use a prong period because I don't ever use active corrections. positive only please.
> 
> I use a flat buckle and on reactive and DA dogs I use a loose martingale to prevent the dog backing out of the collar.


Completely agree with the Pit Bull/head collar issue! I didn't get one for so long because I didn't want people to assume it was a muzzle as she's a pit bull mix. I ended up getting one in the last 6 months because they have become very popular in my small town so people seem to be less inclined to think they're muzzles.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

Eyssa said:


> Yes, I've been shown... or more like read about it, actually. I've abandoned it for the "anti-pull" harness... which should really be called the opposite of its name. Tonight we took Bambi for a short walk around town, and both my brother and I were holding her on a leash (him with one leash, me with another). It was all we could do to keep from tripping over one another and being dragged across the road...
> 
> And what is a Martingale collar? I'm afraid I've never heard of that before...


that had to be interesting to see! there are a wide variety of harnesses for pullers. i had one that was made by sporn, it had a collar and connected to that were to straps that went under the armpits and connected behind the shoulders to the leash, they worked as a pully system to pull down on her chest as she pulled. it worked awesome for her. 

there are also the harnesses that just connect infront and have a martingale feature that causes discomfort when they pull, also ones that are like that but dont have the martingale feature. 

the ones that connect behind that are allll over in petsmart and petco with the leashes and collars are no good. those encourage pulling.


this is a martingale
http://www.faithfulpetproducts.com/i/Collars/Premier_martingale.jpg
i actually have both my dogs wearing those right now.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Taken from Jane Killion's When Pigs Fly! Training Success With Impossible Dogs (2007):

_I do not use or recommend head halters. Head halters tend to suppress behavior rather than helping you re-train it. It appears to me that many dogs find having their heads trussed up and manipulated in this way punishing. They may appear to be "good" but really they are too just miserable to do much of anything -- which is what people sometimes mistakenly read as "well behaved"_

Compounding the above with the alleged possibility of neck/spine injury, I agree with this 100%. Using a redirectional harness (front clips) would be my preferred method if a flat buckle collar is just out of the question.


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## GreatDaneMom (Sep 21, 2007)

trumpetjock said:


> Taken from Jane Killion's When Pigs Fly! Training Success With Impossible Dogs (2007):
> 
> _I do not use or recommend head halters. Head halters tend to suppress behavior rather than helping you re-train it. It appears to me that many dogs find having their heads trussed up and manipulated in this way punishing. They may appear to be "good" but really they are too just miserable to do much of anything -- which is what people sometimes mistakenly read as "well behaved"_
> 
> Compounding the above with the alleged possibility of neck/spine injury, I agree with this 100%. Using a redirectional harness (front clips) would be my preferred method if a flat buckle collar is just out of the question.




i dont understand how the heads are trussed up and manipulated. all it does is turn the head back towards you when they begin to pull.
ETA: does this mean my horses shouldnt wear halters?


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

GreatDaneMom said:


> ETA: does this mean my horses shouldnt wear halters?


I'm not hugely knowledgeable in horses, but aren't halters used to physically direct the horse? The end goal is to have the horse reactive to a halter, not get rid of the halter. 

The end goal for a head harness is to get rid of the head harness. You don't use it to direct the dog, you use it to prevent them pulling so you can engage operant behaviour and train loose leash walking. It's the experience of many positive reinforcement trainers that when a dog wears a head harness it inhibits operant behaviour. The dog walking next to you is there because it's shut down, not because it's offering an operant behaviour. That situation makes the dog untrainable, so that they won't retain any behaviours you attempted to train when you switch to a flat buckle. 

I only have limited experience with head collars with Mesquite. She was well into clicker training when we tried it on her, and I could see her completely shut down with my own eyes. We properly desensitized her to it over the course of a few weeks before having her on a walk with it, and she still shut down. Every dog I see walking in the park or on the street with one on looks completely miserable too (no I'm not anthropomorphizing, I'm very well versed in canine body language), and are most likely operantly shut down.

So in my limited experience and the literature I've read, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.


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## Marsh Muppet (Nov 29, 2008)

trumpetjock said:


> Head halters tend to suppress behavior rather than helping you re-train it. It appears to me that many dogs find having their heads trussed up and manipulated in this way punishing.


*With the caveat that I only used one such device, on one dog, and only for a brief time*, I'd tend to agree with that. I don't have a problem with the concept of corrective punishment, but (assuming the dog views the GL this way) it is punitive when the dog is walking the way you want him to, and it is not significantly more punitive when the dog is behaving negatively.

These devices impress me as having been designed with the owner's emotional comfort in mind rather than the dog's. Just my impression; I'm no expert.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

Marsh Muppet said:


> These devices impress me as having been designed with the owner's emotional comfort in mind rather than the dog's. Just my impression; I'm no expert.


That is my thought as well. The vast majority of dog owners want what basically equates to retardation in their dogs. They want dogs who are not operant, who don't offer any behaviours whatsoever. They want inert lumps that lay around all day every day except for the occasions that the owner wants them to go on a walk. Then on the walk they want an inert lump that happens to walk calmly next to them. I have yet to see a dog with a head harness show any type of expression or enjoyment on a walk. Purely anecdotal, but I don't know of any studies done on this specific topic.


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

trumpetjock said:


> Taken from Jane Killion's When Pigs Fly! Training Success With Impossible Dogs (2007):
> 
> _I do not use or recommend head halters. Head halters tend to suppress behavior rather than helping you re-train it. It appears to me that many dogs find having their heads trussed up and manipulated in this way punishing. They may appear to be "good" but really they are too just miserable to do much of anything -- which is what people sometimes mistakenly read as "well behaved"_
> 
> Compounding the above with the alleged possibility of neck/spine injury, I agree with this 100%. Using a redirectional harness (front clips) would be my preferred method if a flat buckle collar is just out of the question.


You make a good point, but I don't think any of this happens of a dog is properly adapted to the head collar. I do not think people can just put them on and expect them to be comfortable. Most dogs would not be comfortable with something being put around their muzzle and ears and would likely try their darndest to remove it. 

This is an awesome video of how to best adapt your dog to the gentle leader so that they are happy to wear it and walk with it as a training tool. It's Jean Donaldson for those of you who know her. 

Jean Donaldson teaches "Buffy" to wear GL


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

CrzyBritNAmerica said:


> You make a good point, but I don't think any of this happens of a dog is properly adapted to the head collar. I do not think people can just put them on and expect them to be comfortable. Most dogs would not be comfortable with something being put around their muzzle and ears and would likely try their darndest to remove it.
> 
> This is an awesome video of how to best adapt your dog to the gentle leader so that they are happy to wear it and walk with it as a training tool. It's Jean Donaldson for those of you who know her.
> 
> Jean Donaldson teaches "Buffy" to wear GL


I think the desensitization to this type of harness is highly individual. Like I said, we went through all of the steps trying to get Mesquite comfortable with the GL before taking her on the street with it. Nothing we could do would make her comfortable in it.

Many dogs have huge issues with just the restrictions put on them by a regular collar (leash reactivity anyone?). I have a feeling that the additional constraints on them further suppress these dogs and can shut down their learning centers.

I know it works for some dogs. I believe, however, that in every one of those cases there were probably better tools for the job.


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## 3212 (Feb 4, 2007)

trumpetjock said:


> I know it works for some dogs. I believe, however, that in every one of those cases there were probably better tools for the job.


Oh I definitely agree! Bridgette does wonderfully with it after we got her used to it. She is as happy as a clam walking with it on. 

I also see tons of dogs come into the vet clinic with them on and some are just fine, others are very distressed. We have this very hyper lab that comes in with one on and is always trying to get it off. They actually brought the dog in once because it scratched it's nose trying to pry it off! I definitely think it depends on what the dog is comfortable with. I suppose that's why there are SO many types of collars, harnesses, halters and what not! No dog is the same


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## jesirose (Mar 27, 2008)

I think they work for some dogs, but I like the body harness better. I see a LOT of dogs wearing the GL. I tried it on Sadie and she hated it so much she would just lay down - and this is a dog that had NEVER been reluctant to walk EVER. She just wanted it OFF. She wasn't being well behaved when she did walk, she was miserable. And yes, I tried to train her to it. 

I switched to the Easy Walk and it was like a different dog. After only using the harness for a month we are now back on the collar with great walking. The dogs I see every day at work wearing the GL are wearing them for life. 

I have seen a few dogs who did not mind it, and walked wonderfully with it. However, I'd love to see them switched off it onto a regular collar, just for the sake of it - wouldn't it be nice to not have to put on another harness to go for a walk? There is a very sweet boxer I see who could be trained to walk on his collar now but I bet he'll be using the GL forever.


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## rosemaryninja (Sep 28, 2007)

trumpetjock said:


> I think the desensitization to this type of harness is highly individual. Like I said, we went through all of the steps trying to get Mesquite comfortable with the GL before taking her on the street with it. Nothing we could do would make her comfortable in it.
> 
> Many dogs have huge issues with just the restrictions put on them by a regular collar (leash reactivity anyone?). I have a feeling that the additional constraints on them further suppress these dogs and can shut down their learning centers.
> 
> I know it works for some dogs. I believe, however, that in every one of those cases there were probably better tools for the job.


Not always. Take the owner who didn't train his Newfie to walk on a loose leash at a young age... or even the middle-aged woman whose Lab has never learned to heel. Using a flat collar, these people can't even get out the front door with their dogs. I walk dogs at my SPCA and _every_ dog there pulls, out of excitement and the lack of sufficient exercise they get (30-40 minutes a day, even for the Huskies, GSDs and large mutts that make up the majority of occupants). I'm about 5"1. 

The GL is useful in the sense that it helps owners actually get their dogs out on to the sidewalk, something that many can't do because they'd be tugged off their feet. I've never tried a prong or choke personally, but I'm not sure they allow an equal degree of control over your dog without having to exert a huge amount of force.


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## trumpetjock (Dec 14, 2007)

rosemaryninja said:


> Not always. Take the owner who didn't train his Newfie to walk on a loose leash at a young age... or even the middle-aged woman whose Lab has never learned to heel. Using a flat collar, these people can't even get out the front door with their dogs. I walk dogs at my SPCA and _every_ dog there pulls, out of excitement and the lack of sufficient exercise they get (30-40 minutes a day, even for the Huskies, GSDs and large mutts that make up the majority of occupants). I'm about 5"1.
> 
> The GL is useful in the sense that it helps owners actually get their dogs out on to the sidewalk, something that many can't do because they'd be tugged off their feet. I've never tried a prong or choke personally, but I'm not sure they allow an equal degree of control over your dog without having to exert a huge amount of force.


I didn't say that you had to use a flat collar on all dogs, I just don't like the GL. In an earlier post on this thread, I said I much prefer devices like the ez walk harness that buckle in front. They basically just work so that if the dog pulls to the end of the buckle, they get turned around 180 degrees by their own force. It accomplishes the same thing as the GL without mentally shutting the dog down and creating the possibility for neck/spine injury.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

I have yet another question about the proper usage of the head collar: is it normal for them to be so snug at the dog's throat? I mean, I can stick two fingers underneath, but Bambi has all that "extra" skin under her throat... I got a head collar for 60lb. dogs (sixty is the max for that collar size) and after I got home I stuck it on her and it was a little snug. Not terribly tight... and I looked at pictures of dogs wearing head collars and they all fit the same way under the throat, with hardly any slack. After I weighed her I found that she's actually 62lbs, but I don't know if that extra two will make a difference. Should I have gotten something in the next size category?

EDIT: Forgot to say that the type of head collar is a "Pet Champion". I was initially looking for the GL, but I couldn't find either it or the halti so I thought I'd try that one. Also, I would have to say that it looks an awful lot like a GL as far as configuration...


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## Meghan&Pedro (Nov 6, 2006)

I find that the headcollars tend to put inhibitions in the dog while they're on, which can be great (fear aggressive, dominant etc) BUT I find that they're hard to wean off of. Take off the head collar and you've got your old dog underneath.

Not only can it be frustrating for the owners of the dogs, but scary too! When a head collar is on quite often aggressive behaviors are limited, but take it off and BAM there's you're old buddy you were trying to work with.

Most people that use a head collar find that the headcollar has to be on the dog to maintain the level of training that they *think* they have. That is to mean the level of training the the had collar shows.

I like them for some dogs, I really do, but unless you want to use it life-long for your dog, it's something to think about.


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## Eyssa (Jul 28, 2008)

> I like them for some dogs, I really do, but unless you want to use it life-long for your dog, it's something to think about.


Very, very true... Heh, I'll probably have to continue using the head collar for Bambi for the rest of her life, or at least until she grows into her senior years (and that will be a loooong time from now, lol). I used it today and it was like discovering fire... wow, what control! It was amazing, even if she's forced to become equipment dependent.


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## poodleholic (Mar 15, 2007)

> =Meghan&Pedro;480813]I find that the headcollars tend to put inhibitions in the dog while they're on, which can be great (fear aggressive, dominant etc) BUT I find that they're hard to wean off of. Take off the head collar and you've got your old dog underneath.


This may have been your personal experience with a headcollar, however, I've had the exact opposite experience with a dog-aggressive puller and lunger. The GL, used during desensitization and counter-conditioning, was an excellent tool for control initially, then replaced after 4 months with a flat buckle collar. (It's been 6 yrs. now, and this same dog has never reverted to lunging and pulling, and could be controlled with a ribbon, for that matter!) I've also had success using the GL with rescues I've fostered. 




> Most people that use a head collar find that the headcollar has to be on the dog to maintain the level of training that they *think* they have. That is to mean the level of training the the had collar shows.
> 
> I like them for some dogs, I really do, but unless you want to use it life-long for your dog, it's something to think about.



If the same level of training (with headcollar) is there *without* the use of a collar or leash at all, then it's obviously not a life-long requirement for all dogs. Then again, the problem may not be the individual dog, but in the handler's skill, or lack thereof. Which is true, of course, regardless of the collar being used on the dog. I would never use a choke, because I don't like them, and am not skillful in the use of this collar. Same is true for the prong collar - I have no business using either because of my lack of skill.


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## BidDawgs (Feb 15, 2009)

Eyssa said:


> Very, very true... Heh, I'll probably have to continue using the head collar for Bambi for the rest of her life, or at least until she grows into her senior years (and that will be a loooong time from now, lol).


There is a procedure for weening dogs off the GL head collar. It is a little extra work and is inconvenient for a while but it works. The secret is once the dog is reliable on the GL and not trying to pull, start using both the GL and a regular collar at the same time with 2 leashes.

Use mostly the GL at first and slowly over time start using the regular collar more and more. Remember you have 2 leashes and in the early stages you will use the GL mostly. As time progresses, you will be using the GL less and less to control the dog and the collar more and more.

Once you notice you are not using the GL at all, take the leash of the GL but leave it on the dogs head for a few more days. Then loosen it a little each day for a few days. Eventutally you will be able to leave the GL off and control the dog without problem.

The GL is great for large hard to control dogs but should only be a temporary tool to teach the dog proper behavior. Proper behavior usually comes pretty quickly with the GL. Then it's time to begin weening it away.


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## waterbaby (Jan 20, 2009)

Personally, I didn't like it. I've got a 50 lb Chessie puppy and wanted to use the GL when I wasn't in the mood to train her to walk nicely on a leash. Sometimes, I just need her to burn off some energy. She took to it without freaking out and walked fairly nicely with it. But I definitely noticed a lack of spirit and that walks were less fun for her. And that's not what I was looking for. 

On the other hand, she walks well in general and never pulls so hard that I can't correct the behavior. If that were the case, I would be more likely to give the GL more time.


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## Meghan&Pedro (Nov 6, 2006)

You guys have to remember that the clients I'm working with are average joe's, not people who put their dogs before anything else like this board of people do.

I work with people both through the store (who decide against using a trainer for financial reasons or otherwise) as well as clients through my training classes and individual lessons. What you have to remember is : What is the average joe experiencing with this product?

That's what they are experiencing with this product - relying on the head collar instead of continuing with their training. Finding that removing the head collar leads to their 'old' unruly dog, and deciding to use the head collar for the rest of the dogs life because it's easier.

I can't tell you how many people I see at the dog parks and walking down the street with a head collar attached to their FLEXI leash - that's where most peoples knowledge and skill level is at. Sometimes you've got to remember that.

Sometimes I think forum boards are very hard to get your true point across, which is a scary thing when you think about what kind of questions we're answering here for people...


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