# Peeing on bed out of pure spite



## Nemoralis (Dec 18, 2009)

I have an 8 year old mixed breed dog that I found half starved on a fishing trip when she was about 6 months old. My dad adopted her and abused the heck out of her (won't go into details) until I finally got my own place a few years ago and was able to really adopt her.

She is a wonderful dog, but she is way too smart for her own good. Throughout the years I've had her, she has periodically peed on my bed when she was mad about something. Since it happened so rarely, I never looked much into it. 

About a month ago I moved in with my boyfriend and we got a 1 bedroom apartment. Red (my dog) is housebroken and always pees outside. Recently, however, she started peeing on my bed almost every day - always on my side. I thought she was "requesting" that I take her outside more (I work long hours sometimes) but that did not seem to help. Finally I resorted to locking her in the bathroom when I am not home. I don't own a crate because I've never needed one with her.

However, she is EXTREMELY stubborn and spiteful. She is very pissed off at me for locking her in the bathroom and if we leave even for just a few minutes she will immediately pee on the bed.

I can't really block the bedroom off, as our apartment is small and we are back and forth through it constantly. Plus she would get mad and scratch the door all up. 

This is a dog the likes of which I have never encountered before! I think this all started because she got mad at us for stopping her from sleeping in the bed with us. I make her a bed of fluffy pillows on the floor beside me every night, but that is not good enough.

I punish her and am dominant to her. I don't know how to make myself any more alpha to her. Any advice?


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

punish her and am dominant to her. I don't know how to make myself any more alpha to her. Any advice? 


Yea..Quit doing that.

Usually when a dog does this..It is because of a underlying medical problem. I bet she has a UTI...


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## MakeShift Heart (Sep 12, 2009)

DM is right, spite is something humans do. Dogs don't feel spite.

I would check in with the vet.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

> I punish her and am dominant to her. I don't know how to make myself any more alpha to her. Any advice?


You cannot 'force' a dog to respect (or like) you. Being 'alpha' and punishing a dog doesn't_ teach_ a dog anything if you're not properly communicating to your dog what you WANT them to do... to the dog you are just being a bully and punishing them for things they don't understand. You should find a trainer/behaviorist and enroll in some basic training classes so you can learn how to communicate and interact with your dog properly. Dogs _do not_ do things 'out of spite'.


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## FaithFurMom09 (Oct 24, 2009)

are you cleaning up the pee and washing your sheets,etc EACH TIME? Do it if youre not. Why cant you get a walk through baby gate so you can block off the bedroom but walk through still? Im not a dog expert but "punishing" the dog is not going to help, even in puppy potty training they tell you that if you punish after the puppy is thinking "what in the world?" because you didnt act IN the moment.


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## Ayanla (Jun 11, 2009)

Dog's do not think in that sophisticated of a manner. The first thing to realize is that you're dealing with a dog, and dogs do things for much simpler (to them) reasons. Your pup absolutely isn't squatting on your bed thinking "That'll show her for making me sleep on the floor!"

I highly doubt the problem is that you need to be more alpha. My understanding is that peeing is an ultimate submission signal, not a dominance signal. My instinct with what limited knowledge I have, would be to say you've got a scared, untrained, dog who may not be understanding the punishment you give her.

Dogs associate punishment with what they were doing right that second. So let's say you go out. She pees on the bed. Twenty minutes later you come in and she's laying on the floor. You scream at her and perform whatever punishment you use. To her simple little brain, she just got punished because you came home. The fact she peed on your bed twenty minutes ago isn't even vaguely associated. And no, rubbing her nose in it doesn't make her understand it any clearer.

A dog that gets punished at seeming random (to them) is much more likely to be scared in general because they never know when punishment might be levied. They don't learn not to do certain behaviors, they learn to avoid you and they get extremely anxious about any situations that might result in punishment, like you leaving and coming back.


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## Nemoralis (Dec 18, 2009)

Whoa, everything was taken way out of context. I don't yell and scream at my dog hours after she does something wrong. I don't yell and scream at her at all. When I say that I punish her, I mean that I get on to her when I catch her doing something wrong. I don't let her get away with whatever she wants. 

Yes, I wash and clean the sheets after each time. I don't like sleeping in dog piss.

And a dog peeing is only a submission signal sometimes. Ever seen a dog mark it's territory? That is NOT a submission signal.

She is not doing this because she scared or frightened or doesn't know what she is supposed to do and what she is not supposed to do. I've had this dog for a long time, and I know when she is scared and when she isn't. She is doing this because she is trying to be dominant over me (hence marking MY side of the bed with her scent whenever she feels I am trying to dominate her). If that is not as close as it gets to the human reaction of "spite" then I don't know what else to call it.

Thanks for the replies.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

I vote that the culprit is anxiety. This dog has been abandoned, starved, and abused for 7-1/2 years. She was moved once to the dad's house, once to the OP's house, and now again into an apartment with a person she does not know. Her sleeping location has been changed. I suspect she is nervous about what has happened and is happening in her life. She could even have forgotten some of her housetraining as a result.

I could be crazy, though.


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## Nemoralis (Dec 18, 2009)

Oh and I really don't think it is a UTI, although I have thought of it. She doesn't display any other symptoms of a UTI and she has done this periodically for years without every showing any other symptoms.

It would be quite a strange UTI to only show up randomly and never progress in severity over several years.

But again, thanks for the ideas.



FilleBelle said:


> I vote that the culprit is anxiety. This dog has been abandoned, starved, and abused for 7-1/2 years. She was moved once to the dad's house, once to the OP's house, and now again into an apartment with a person she does not know. Her sleeping location has been changed. I suspect she is nervous about what has happened and is happening in her life. She could even have forgotten some of her housetraining as a result.
> 
> I could be crazy, though.


This I would definitely agree with, except that I have had her for over 2 years with little or no problems from her. She adjusted very well to life with me after leaving my dad's house and has only done this maybe 2 or 3 times in 2 years. Why suddenly start doing it 3 weeks after we move? She loves my boyfriend and has known him for a very long time, although I guess he could be the reason. 

She is definitely not used to being made to sleep on the floor though.


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

O. well carry on then.


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## Pai (Apr 23, 2008)

Nemoralis said:


> If that is not as close as it gets to the human reaction of "spite" then I don't know what else to call it.


Here's a mental image: A dog with separation anxiety is drawn to the smell of the person they are bonded to. They go to that place and either lick/chew whatever has a person's strongest smell (hence why often a dog left alone will chew up the belongings of the person they love most, which is often called 'spite'). Dogs lick, chew, and pee as comforting behaviors to themselves. Dogs do not pee 'to mark' ALL THE TIME, obviously... peeing is submission, fear, and a simple biological function as well. 
Your dog is either not potty trained properly and thinks the bed is ok to pee on, or else she gets so stressed while wanting to be with you that she ends up peeing on the part of the bed that she goes on to be nearest to your smell. Or else she has a biological issue like a recurring UTI.



> She is doing this because she is trying to be dominant over me


 If you are convinced of this, what do you intend to do? Get rid of the dog because she's so 'spiteful', or just keep punishing her more and more harshly and being more of an 'alpha' (bully) ...a strategy which has obviously_ not worked_, because you're here asking for help now. Being open to trying a different approach would be a good idea, since you admit that what you've been doing so far has failed to get the results you want. You wanted advice on a different strategy to deal with this problem, and you're getting it.

You are not properly communicating with your dog, and finding a trainer to teach you how to do that will be the most beneficial to you. Either they will teach you the skills to help you manage your dog's separation anxiety, or else help you properly train your dog to stay off the bed or learn to sleep in a crate while you're away.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Nemoralis said:


> This I would definitely agree with, except that I have had her for over 2 years with little or no problems from her.


Er...



Nemoralis said:


> Throughout the years I've had her, she has periodically peed on my bed when she was mad about something.





Nemoralis said:


> She adjusted very well to life with me after leaving my dad's house and has only done this maybe 2 or 3 times in 2 years. Why suddenly start doing it 3 weeks after we move?


Ever heard of the straw that broke the camel's back? If anxiety really is an issue, which it certainly sounds like it might be, it could be that the dog has been living in a constant state of low-level anxiety for years and only this most recent move into a new apartment and with a new roommate was enough to really freak her out.



Nemoralis said:


> I punish her and am dominant to her. I don't know how to make myself any more alpha to her. Any advice?


Or here's another possibility...the dog is already anxious and therefore acts out. You punish the dog and attempt to exhibit alpha behaviors. The dog has no idea why you've suddenly become this aggresssive, unpredictable person and becomes more anxious, therefore acting out more in ways you do not like. So you punish more. So the dog gets more anxious. See where this is going?



Nemoralis said:


> She loves my boyfriend and has known him for a very long time, although I guess he could be the reason.


Knowing and loving someone is not the same as living with him. Any human can tell you that...it's no different for a dog. We're not talking about a dog that likes or dislikes the situation. We're talking about a dog that may be frightened by things that are new. Living with your boyfriend is new, right?

If this were my dog, I would start all over as if she were a puppy. We would crate train and I would set up a schedule of play time, exercise time, meal time, bed time, and potty time from which I would do my VERY BEST to NEVER deviate. I would sign up for a basic obedience class (or something else that requires teamwork) in order to re-strengthen my bond with the dog. I would ask my boyfriend to participate. I would _introduce _new changes (like beds or bathrooms or whatever), rather than just throwing the dog into the situation and expecting her to adjust.

I'm by no means a behaviorist, though. I have no idea if this is anxiety. What I do know is that I have a dog that seems incapable of adapting and he often behaves in ways I find irritating as a result.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

She is insecure, IMO, and is marking the places that smell the most like you in order to reassure herself.

Get smarter than the dog. Find a way to block her entry to the bedroom. Give her more exercise and attention. 

Reward her for all outdoor elimination.

Stop scolding or correcting her for your failure to prevent her ability to do this.


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## Nemoralis (Dec 18, 2009)

Pai said:


> Here's a mental image: A dog with separation anxiety is drawn to the smell of the person they are bonded to. They go to that place and either lick/chew whatever has a person's strongest smell (hence why often a dog left alone will chew up the belongings of the person they love most, which is often called 'spite'). Dogs lick, chew, and pee as comforting behaviors to themselves. Dogs do not pee 'to mark' ALL THE TIME, obviously... peeing is submission, fear, and a simple biological function as well.
> Your dog is either not potty trained properly and thinks the bed is ok to pee on, or else she gets so stressed while wanting to be with you that she ends up peeing on the part of the bed that she goes on to be nearest to your smell. Or else she has a biological issue like a recurring UTI.
> 
> If you are convinced of this, what do you intend to do? Get rid of the dog because she's so 'spiteful', or just keep punishing her more and more harshly and being more of an 'alpha' (bully) ...a strategy which has obviously_ not worked_, because you're here asking for help now. Being open to trying a different approach would be a good idea, since you admit that what you've been doing so far has failed to get the results you want. You wanted advice on a different strategy to deal with this problem, and you're getting it.
> ...


Jeez, give me a break. I know my dog pretty well and I am giving the facts as well as my own opinion. It doesn't mean I am not listening to yours as well. Calm down.

I've been given a lot of reasons as to why my dog is behaving this way and I am grateful, but I also don't believe every single one and I have stated why. This doesn't mean I'm going to "get rid of my dog" or keep pushing her more "harshly" or be a "bully" to her. I've never given any indication that I would do that or that I have ever done that.

Nor did I say that peeing is ALWAYS a territorial behavior. I was just contradicting what someone said earlier about peeing being a submission signal, because oftentimes it is not. You are right, it could be a submissive behavior but in my experience dogs pee as a submission signal when they are in front of the person/dog they are being submissive to. But maybe I'm wrong.

I love my dog to death, she is happy and well adjusted. This problem has JUST NOW started, so I really haven't done anything to try and solve it yet except for putting her in the bathroom. So you're right, nothing I've done has worked...

All the articles I've seen posted on here and elsewhere, and every trainer I've ever met, has said that you must be the alpha (not bully or harsh owner) of your dog. That is what I am talking about. 

And why do you think my dog has suddenly developed separation anxiety after 8 years of never having had a problem with separation? Don't you think it is more likely that she is displaying dominant behaviors after being made to do things I have never made her do in the past (such as sleep on the floor?)

I am listening to the advice given, but not when it doesn't make any sense.

If the problem persists I will take her to a trainer. But in the meantime please, chill out.



FilleBelle said:


> If this were my dog, I would start all over as if she were a puppy. We would crate train and I would set up a schedule of play time, exercise time, meal time, bed time, and potty time from which I would do my VERY BEST to NEVER deviate. I would sign up for a basic obedience class (or something else that requires teamwork) in order to re-strengthen my bond with the dog. I would ask my boyfriend to participate. I would _introduce _new changes (like beds or bathrooms or whatever), rather than just throwing the dog into the situation and expecting her to adjust.
> 
> I'm by no means a behaviorist, though. I have no idea if this is anxiety. What I do know is that I have a dog that seems incapable of adapting and he often behaves in ways I find irritating as a result.


Thanks, I am planning to buy a crate. I think you might be right about the anxiety. 

I may have sounded like I was contradicting myself earlier but what I meant was that I have had very little problems with her except for peeing on the bed once a year. To me, if that's all the problems a dog gives you then it's not too bad. And I could ALWAYS find a reason as to why she'd done it. 

Oh and like I said, I am not mean to her nor do I beat her. I scold her when I catch her doing things but I never yell at her or get on to her for peeing on the bed because I never catch her at it.

Thank you for the advice!


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Think THINK of your dog, and what she must be experiencing.

She has had you to herself for years. Now there is another object of your attentions, a new resident to your household that is of the opposite sex, she has been tossed out from her snug comfy place on the bed to the floor, and she is being repeatedly shown your displeasure when she desperately tries to mark you as hers.

IMO she is quite fearful and anxious about the changes that have happened, and the new person in your life.

I would encourage him to try to bond with her, and to treat her with great kindness, giving her attention. Put him in charge of feeding her, and taking her for walks.

I recommend you not punish her in any way again, even if she continues to do it. You must find some way to block her from the bedroom, and then work on helping her build a relationship with your BF.


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## Nemoralis (Dec 18, 2009)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> She is insecure, IMO, and is marking the places that smell the most like you in order to reassure herself.
> 
> Get smarter than the dog. Find a way to block her entry to the bedroom. Give her more exercise and attention.
> 
> ...


I will scold her when I catch her doing something wrong, otherwise she'll never learn. Blocking her access to the bedroom only masks the problem, it doesn't solve it. 

I always reward her for going outside - she has always been housebroken and never has a problem other than this.

I am looking to solve the root problem, not just block her from the bedroom.


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Alllll righty then.

Good luck with her!


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## Nemoralis (Dec 18, 2009)

RedyreRottweilers said:


> Think THINK of your dog, and what she must be experiencing.
> 
> She has had you to herself for years. Now there is another object of your attentions, a new resident to your household that is of the opposite sex, she has been tossed out from her snug comfy place on the bed to the floor, and she is being repeatedly shown your displeasure when she desperately tries to mark you as hers.
> 
> ...


Good ideas too...he really likes her so he has been taking her outside a lot lately. He feeds her and naps with her and plays with her. But now with the bed wetting thing he has gotten frustrated with her  And I can't blaime him, she peed all over his beautiful down blanket!

I'll reiterate that I have NEVER punished her for peeing on the bed, because I never catch her doing it.


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## CoverTune (Mar 11, 2007)

Nemoralis said:


> I will scold her when I catch her doing something wrong, otherwise she'll never learn.


I disagree with this statement. I have two Chihuahuas. I got each of them at 8 weeks old. Neither has EVER been scolded for a potty mistake, and both of them have been successfully housebroken. (One is now 2.5 years old, the other is about 8 months, FWIW)

I agree that your dog is much more likely anxious/upset than she is "spiteful". At the very least, she may be seeking your attention.


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## Nemoralis (Dec 18, 2009)

CoverTune said:


> I disagree with this statement. I have two Chihuahuas. I got each of them at 8 weeks old. Neither has EVER been scolded for a potty mistake, and both of them have been successfully housebroken.
> 
> I agree that your dog is much more likely anxious/upset than she is "spiteful". At the very least, she may be seeking your attention.


When you see a dog jumping on a counter to eat your dinner, you would probably scold it, right? Otherwise it will just do it again. 

Some things deserve a reprimand, other things are better taught with positive reinforcement rather than negative. Potty training is better with positive reinforcement, other things are not.

But just my opinion. Thanks for the replies all, even the sarcastic ones. I have listened and I will try some of the things mentioned, short of taking her to the vet for a nonexistant UTI.


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## FilleBelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Nemoralis said:


> And why do you think my dog has suddenly developed separation anxiety after 8 years of never having had a problem with separation? Don't you think it is more likely that she is displaying dominant behaviors after being made to do things I have never made her do in the past (such as sleep on the floor?)


I don't think it's likely at all.



Nemoralis said:


> I may have sounded like I was contradicting myself earlier but what I meant was that I have had very little problems with her except for peeing on the bed once a year. To me, if that's all the problems a dog gives you then it's not too bad. And I could ALWAYS find a reason as to why she'd done it.


In twenty-seven years of dog ownership, I've never had a single dog pee on my bed a single time. The behavior is indicative of a problem...possibly something as simple as needing to be housebroken, possibly something more complicated like separation anxiety...but it is a symptom and it should have been viewed as such when it happened previously. You are expressing disbelief that this situation has "suddenly" occured, but I don't think it's all that sudden.

I suspect the "reasons" that you're finding are reasons that make sense to you (she's angry, she's spiteful) but reasons that don't have anything to do with the way dogs actually think (I'm scared, I'm lonely, I'm bored).


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## LuvMyAngels (May 24, 2009)

Keep in mind I have a 10 month old puppy that can rest his chin on my counter top, he has not once taken food from the counters or table. He's currently 133lbs & 31" at the shoulder.



> When you see a dog jumping on a counter to eat your dinner, you would probably scold it, right? Otherwise it will just do it again.


I would interrupt the jump and redirect to a desired behavior. In this case, I'd send him to go lay down while we eat our meal, praising when he did as told. No scolding or punishment needed. 

The old saying "you get more flies with honey than vinegar" works well with dog training. If I "got on" my pup every time he messed up, I'd have a very fearful dog. He came to me, at 9 1/2 weeks, afraid of everything. All scolding and punishments would have done was reinforce his idea that humans were unpredictable and dangerous. Instead, I have rewarded good behavior and redirected the naughty stuff (potty accidents told me I wasnt taking him out often enough). My reward is a confident dog who trusts and wants to please me. He can be (and is) taken anywhere, good with people (including infants) and other animals (other than rabbits and squirrels)


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

The people here are giving you really good advice, they're not just trying to yell at you or something. And no one is being sarcastic. Please try not to react by simply getting defensive.



Nemoralis said:


> I will scold her when I catch her doing something wrong, otherwise she'll never learn. Blocking her access to the bedroom only masks the problem, it doesn't solve it.
> 
> I am looking to solve the root problem, not just block her from the bedroom.


The thing that you are missing is that every time she pees on the bed, the behavior is self-reinforcing. So if you create a situation in which she _can_ pee on the bed, and she does so, the behavior will be reinforced and she will be more likely to do it in the future. If you find the pee after she's already gone, it's too late and there is absolutely nothing you can do. That's why blocking access is necessary.

If you ask for more advice on anxiety, other people here will probably have plenty of really good advice for you.


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## BoxMeIn21 (Apr 10, 2007)

Nemoralis said:


> She is doing this because she is trying to be dominant over me (hence marking MY side of the bed with her scent whenever she feels I am trying to dominate her). If that is not as close as it gets to the human reaction of "spite" then I don't know what else to call it.


If you really think your dog is peeing to "dominate you", then you really have a lot to learn. Dogs simply don't run around all day thinking of ways to "dominate" their owners. That's old school junk. 
And like everyone else has stated, dogs also don't have the thought process to do things out of spite, so quit trying to push human emotions on your dog. 

I would have to agree with the others that this problem is more than likely some sort of anxiety. Your key here is prevention. Don't give her the opportunity to soil on your bed and set her up for success. Good luck.


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## Ty_Tyler (Sep 17, 2009)

Ayanla said:


> Your pup absolutely isn't squatting on your bed thinking "That'll show her for making me sleep on the floor!"


 That made me chuckle.


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## FaithFurMom09 (Oct 24, 2009)

Faith peed on my bed when she was little. I put her butt on the floor and got off my lazy butt and took her out more. Maybe i should of "got on her"?


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## luvntzus (Mar 16, 2007)

Separation anxiety can come up at any point in a dog (or person's) life.


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## Xeph (May 7, 2007)

You really need to let go of this "peeing out of spite" thing. It has nothing to do with it. It sounds like the dog is over stressed and her way of self soothing is to pee on the bed.

Your assumption that blocking her access to the bed does not solve the problem is incorrect. It is an important step in eliminating this behavior. If you allow your dog access to the bed, you are allowing her to pee on it. You're setting her up for failure, and that is not fair (and IMO it is cruel).

My dog is 6 years old, a service dog, and has obedience titles.

He still misbehaves every now and then, because he is a sentient creature and has the ability to think for himself.

He has gotten sick in the house. Sometimes I've caught him, sometimes I have not. He has never been punished for it. I simply clean up the mess and move on.

He's stolen bread off the counter. I don't know what it is, but this dog likes to eat bread. He's smart enough that he almost never gets caught  

Times when he is caught doing something he knows is wrong (aka, instinct overrode training...it happens to the best of them), I simply tell him "Pfui!" and I redirect. 

You need to restrict the access of your bed from the dog. This problem WILL NOT be solved if you continue to allow her on the bed.


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## RonE (Feb 3, 2007)

> When I say that I punish her, I mean that I get on to her when I catch her doing something wrong.


I don't know what that means. Maybe your dog doesn't, either.


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

Nemoralis said:


> But in the meantime please, chill out.


Oh, Ms. Pot.....



digits mama said:


> O. well carry on then.


^^^^^^^ This. OP 1, dog 0.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

If your dog is spayed, it could be spay incontinence. Usually they will have accidents when they sleep and their bladder muscles relax. If she is only able to get on your bed to sleep when you are gone, then it would show up then. You probably take her out when you are home, so she doesn't have accidents then. It becomes more severe as they age and muscles get weaker.
Have her seen by a vet and ask about it. There are meds for it. I also 2nd the doggie gate. You can step over most of them or they have "walk thru" ones, you can buy.


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## digits mama (Jun 13, 2007)

[QUOTE



^^^^^^^ This. OP 1, dog 0.[/QUOTE]

There are sometimes you have to just step back before you flip the virtual finger at people.
And this is one of those times.

From experience and from many google searches.. A dog that pees out of the ordinary in odd places is the first sign of a UTI. Obviously she rules this out because the dog is a fine tuned animal..no breakdowns..She said so..

If it was me, Id rule out a medical problem first and foremost. Second..Id pull my head out my butt and do some research on how to fix the training problem..

But hey, whatdoIknow...


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## ThoseWordsAtBest (Mar 18, 2009)

Nemoralis said:


> When you see a dog jumping on a counter to eat your dinner, you would probably scold it, right? Otherwise it will just do it again.
> 
> Some things deserve a reprimand, other things are better taught with positive reinforcement rather than negative. Potty training is better with positive reinforcement, other things are not.
> 
> But just my opinion. Thanks for the replies all, even the sarcastic ones. I have listened and I will try some of the things mentioned, short of taking her to the vet for a nonexistant UTI.


We don't scold our dogs. In the case of the counter, we don't leave any thing up there that would be interesting to them. If we're cooking, the dogs are told "bed" and they stay the living room. Problem solved, not masked. In the event they jump on any thing, they have a firm grasp of the command "Off" and do so immediately. 

What exactly deserves a reprimand, and what is the reprimand?


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## winniec777 (Apr 20, 2008)

digits mama said:


> There are sometimes you have to just step back before you flip the virtual finger at people.
> And this is one of those times.
> 
> From experience and from many google searches.. A dog that pees out of the ordinary in odd places is the first sign of a UTI. Obviously she rules this out because the dog is a fine tuned animal..no breakdowns..She said so..
> ...


Agreed. Again. 

This may be out there but DYT there's anything to the notion that the dog pees on the bed because it smells like a place it should pee, maybe the only place in the house it should pee/is safe to pee? IME, an anxious dog is uber careful about its actions (interpreted as spite by the OP). It will go out of its way to avoid stress, which can manifest in extreme behavior like this. IDK, maybe the move has made her a lot more anxious than you realize and the bed is the only place she feels comfortable enough to pee? When we first moved to the house we're in, our dog only went potty outside reluctantly. We had to walk her to familiar places before she would go - was a real pain. I put fencing around her potty area, mulched it like she was used to - she was still anxious about being out there. Never did figure out what it was. Maybe your dog is uncomfortable in the place you've selected for her potty area?

2nd guess (more along the lines of hoofbeats/horses) -- maybe the dog was not taught where to go potty at the new place or an attempt was made but it didn't take? It's pretty common for dogs to forget their potty training when they are moved. Actually, it's not forgetting, it's just that they don't generalize that it's not ok to go in the new place - you have to teach them that. We've moved twice in Poca's life and had numerous short stays in other places for vacations. Each time we make sure to go through a short potty training course when we first get there (100% supervision, lots of trips outside, praise & treat for going in the right place) that lasts for at least a couple of days up to a month depending on the size of the place. Its just a good idea to set your dog up to succeed.

If it was my dog, I would keep her out of the room at all times, go back to a strict course of potty training, and work to build her confidence.


FWIW, whenever I see the phrase "way too smart for its own good" I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like the interpretation that follows....


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## Momdogz (Dec 19, 2009)

canteloupe said:


> The people here are giving you really good advice, they're not just trying to yell at you or something. And no one is being sarcastic. Please try not to react by simply getting defensive.
> I haven't seen anything that was out of line. People really are trying to help.


This is my first post as a new member, and I have to say I disagree with the above comments. I came to this forum looking for help with a new 8 year old neutered male rescue who has lifted his leg a few times in the house. After reading this thread, I'm a bit reluctant to ask....even if my understanding of dog behavior is incorrect, I would rather be corrected kindly than unkindly. Some of the replies on this thread were definitely leaning toward being arrogant and unkind - treating Nemoralis like she was stupid.

Seems like Nemoralis - and I - are genuinely wanting to help these amazing dog friends of ours, are not perfect, and would like some friendly help. Am I coming to the right place??


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## canteloupe (Apr 30, 2009)

Momdogz said:


> This is my first post as a new member, and I have to say I disagree with the above comments. I came to this forum looking for help with a new 8 year old neutered male rescue who has lifted his leg a few times in the house. After reading this thread, I'm a bit reluctant to ask....even if my understanding of dog behavior is incorrect, I would rather be corrected kindly than unkindly. Some of the replies on this thread were definitely leaning toward being arrogant and unkind - treating Nemoralis like she was stupid.
> 
> Seems like Nemoralis - and I - are genuinely wanting to help these amazing dog friends of ours, are not perfect, and would like some friendly help. Am I coming to the right place??


I guess you're right, some of the posts were a little more ... blunt. I think what people were reacting to is the OP's defensiveness. They were trying to give her advice at first, and she was blowing people off. People who do know what they're talking about.

Plus there is a context to this. Dominance theory is strongly disliked by many, here.

I think you should go ahead and ask your question (on a new thread).


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## Momdogz (Dec 19, 2009)

That's helpful - thanks, Canteloupe.


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## Charlene (Sep 12, 2009)

this will probably sound stupid but have you considered, at her age, she could be suffering from some incontinence issues?

my 3 year old rescue dane girl started leaving puddles in my bed. ONLY in my bed. i think maybe once or twice, at the most, i found a stain on the sofa. this happened every single evening and always on my bed on MY side. 

i put her on medication and have not had a single puddle in several months now.

even if you think it's a behavioral/anxiety issue, you should at the very least have her checked by your vet to rule out any medical problems.


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## Tanuki (Nov 14, 2009)

As a newlywed there were one or two incidents when my husband and I moved in together where the dog peed on the bed. The puppy had been sleeping with me before we moved in together but my husband didn't want to have a dog in the bed so we wanted to make the dog to sleep on the floor at night.

However, the minute my husband left the house the dog would be right back up on the bed. The first time I found the dog had peed on the bed I was shocked and didn't know what to make of the new behavior. I figured it was just an accident. She was normally housebroken.

The next time was a specific incident where the dog jumped right up onto the bed and peed in "the wet spot" seconds after we exited the bed. We were both right there in the room when she did it. I concluded she was marking her territory over the spot where my husband had just "marked his territory" so to speak. She was claiming me back from him.

The answer was that from then on she wasn't allowed on the bed, whether he was home or not. The pack order was my husband was the Alpha dog, I was the second in command, and the puppy was lower ranking than that. 

I put her crate on the floor right next to the bed and she had to sleep there. I didn't allow her in the bedroom if one of us wasn't there to keep her off the bed. She learned the bed was off limits by us consistently forbidding her access to it. Now she has graduated out of her crate to a dog bed on the floor right next to the bed on the side where I sleep. I can put my hand over the side of the bed and pet her and this seems to be enough.

Good luck.


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## Rukieduke77 (Dec 26, 2009)

Yeah... I have recently had issues with my dog exhibiting nearly the exact same behavior. I know what you're saying about the "spite" bit - it seems she is fine all day when I am at work, but if I come home and have to run out again (even for only a few minutes... and letting her out beforehand, of course), she will do something like pee on the bed, or any clothes left on the floor. She has had these "accidents" sporadically in the past, but the frequency has increased as of late (I adopted her from a shelter 4 years ago as an adult, and I've similarly had little issue until recently). She had been crated for a few years, and I'd been attempting to allow her to remain outside of it because it seemed that being in the crate really amplified her separation anxiety... but I'm beginning to think that I've made a mistake. I am just your average dog-owner, but perhaps crating is worth looking into.


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## JustTess (Mar 19, 2008)

When we first got Ilya from a shelter a few years ago, he peed on my younger son's bed. My older son also thought Ilya peed out of "spite" because he would pee on the living room floor whenever my son would not share a piece of his dinner with him.

Personally, I don't think Ilya does this out of spite because, he is a very tidy clean dog who doesn't like to relieve himself in the house. He actually gets upset if he has an accident in the house and tries to cover it up. He won't go in the room again until we use nature's miracle and the smell seems to be gone.

One day, I actually caught him in one of these "spiteful" incidences (as my older son would call it). What I saw was a dog who was overly excited about the rib bone he couldn't have and after staring at us eating it he had to relieve himself but he couldn't take his eyes of the bone. My son will disagree with me but I see this more as a "I'm so upset, I don't even know what I'm doing" moment.


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## Independent George (Mar 26, 2009)

From what I've read, urination is often a gesture of appeasement; berating a dog for urination often makes the situation even worse.


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## Westhighlander (Sep 28, 2007)

JustTess said:


> One day, I actually caught him in one of these "spiteful" incidences (as my older son would call it). What I saw was a dog who was overly excited about the rib bone he couldn't have and after staring at us eating it he had to relieve himself but he couldn't take his eyes of the bone. My son will disagree with me but I see this more as a "I'm so upset, I don't even know what I'm doing" moment.




This is true, some dogs get so excited they just lose it. It seems to happen more with submissive dogs.

The only time where I would even consider a dog was peeing out of spite would be if they climb on your bed and took a wiz on your head. If that ever happen then - just maybe...


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## Tolak (Sep 11, 2008)

Keep the dog out of that room. Access is a resource, controlling resources is the basis of NILIF. When things change you have to back up training a bit. Something changed, you may never know, as the dog isn't going to bring the subject up & tell you. You have to approach it with what you do know, and solve it from there.


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## tsc (Dec 7, 2009)

If you refuse to consider a UTI, can you at least consider the possibility of arthritis? You've had the dog for 8 years, it's possible her hips are getting a bit creaky, and she looks for a comfortable spot to squat. 

Cats will sometimes do this too, finding rugs and clothing that's soft and familiar to try to ease the pain. 

Your unwillingness to bar the dog from the bedroom is bizarre-- If she "only" pees on the bed (which doesn't seem to be the case), this would effectively solve the problem until you get to the vet.


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## Cheetah (May 25, 2006)

Nemoralis said:


> I will scold her when I catch her doing something wrong, otherwise she'll never learn. Blocking her access to the bedroom only masks the problem, it doesn't solve it.
> 
> I always reward her for going outside - she has always been housebroken and never has a problem other than this.
> 
> I am looking to solve the root problem, not just block her from the bedroom.


I just wanted to point out that, while I do not know a whole lot about the other posters on this thread (save for Xeph LOL), except for the fact they DO know what they're talking about, I have followed Redyre's postings and watched her videos for quite some time and she is an absolutely amazing trainer IRL. But I'm sure you couldn't have known that lol.

I agree with everyone here. Get a cheap $20-30 Evenflo baby gate from wal-mart or wherever. The one that has the locking swing gate. It's the one I have and I know they still sell it. I used to keep it across my kitchen entrance because I didn't want my dogs in there at all, especially Eevee. There's one thing about bad habits... I'm sure you've heard the saying, "Out of sight, out of mind..." 

It sounds like she's either marking (which is in no way a "spiteful" behavior) or like others have said, fear or anxiety. I think she should only be allowed in that room when you're in there... and possibly should have her own bed until the behavior stops.

And I would definitely have her tested for a UTI, regardless of how perfect she's been healthwise in the past. No dog is perfect.


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## StarfishSaving (Nov 7, 2008)

I pee on other peoples' beds to send them a message all the time. Serves 'em right. Less messy than horse heads. Hyuck.

Anyway, this is the most BLATANT "message" that she could be sending to you, and you have to figure out the correct way to interpret it. I would absolutely start with a vet trip/urinalysis. Eliminate or diagnose bladder stones, UTIs, etc etc.



> I will scold her when I catch her doing something wrong, otherwise she'll never learn. Blocking her access to the bedroom only masks the problem, it doesn't solve it.


It's called "management" and is a crucial step in ANY training. It is the same thing as crating, or putting a dog in the bathroom, or using an umbilical leash in the house. In order to keep an animal from doing an undesired behavior, the first step is to make sure they don't have the opportunity to do it, especially when you're not there to see it.

Punishment should only be used in certain situations, and if you have no idea what the "root problem" is, how can you possibly know that it lies within those circumstances where punitive methods will work?

I'm glad that you have never punished her for peeing on the bed, because sometimes that teaches the dog "don't do this in front of the human!" not "don't do this at all!"

Edit: Didn't realize that the OP hasn't posted here in a while. Hoping for the best!


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## RedyreRottweilers (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks so much Cheetah.

I will confess that some postings/posters really get under my skin, and this was one of them.

I think of this dog often, and how stressed she must feel. Maybe with a little time she has adjusted and things are better now.


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