# Raw feeders do you have a bearded dog and toddlers in the house?



## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm just wondering how many people who feed raw have a bearded dog and have toddler aged or pre-school aged children in the house? 

How do you keep cross contamination from happening? Ie raw meaty juices getting on the dogs beard and then transferring the child's hands, face or other surfaces that the child comes into contact with?

what do you feed as a training treat?

thanks!


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

to put this into perspective, germs are everywhere, including kibble.

there have been more cases of salmonella in kibble than has ever been found in raw feeding.

my friends who have dogs with beards merely wipe down their dogs with a warm wet cloth...some braid, or pony tail the beard if it is long enough....

but i've been feeding raw for a good while now and no one on any of the forums i am a member has ever had a problem with any contamination with their furry dogs and children.

raw meaty juices.....we wipe their faces...isn't it kind of the same with a dog who slobbers? like mastiffs and newfies and other such beautiful beasties?

the treats i give are dehydrated real food. now that they are fed raw, store bought is not an option for me.

btw, i am moderately to severely immuno compromised....and i got sick being in a hospital, but never from my dogs. 

hope this helps.


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## Sibe (Nov 21, 2010)

For dogs with long ears many people will use a snood, I wonder if there is something similar that would work for a beard? As MagicRe said, you might be able to braid/ponytail the beard too which should help. Even dogs without beards get blood and goo on their faces, it's really easy and quick to get a rag wet and scrub them off.








(not my pic)


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

MagicRe said:


> to put this into perspective, germs are everywhere, including kibble.


yup I know that germs are everywhere. But my friend is a USDA international meat inspector, actually a chief in DC. Anyway through her I am aware that our meat contains acceptable levels of e-coli, listeria and salmanella. So it isn't a question of If it's in the meat, we know that it is. USDA accepts these levels of contamination b/c our meat is supposed to be cooked before consumed by humans. So knowing that there is that stuff in our meat, (and since I've spent the last 10 days sick due to eating under cooked lamb) I'm worried that my daughter will get some tainted meat. She is dog obsessed to put it lightly, is with the dog all the time, and gets kisses from the dog on a regular basis. The dog kisses is something that I've been training 2+ years to stop and just hasn't happened. I can't stop the kisses.

So it is good to hear from an imuno compromised individual.

I worry b/c I know that the dog will eat tainted meat, and honastly I'm not worried about the dog. I figure their system can handle it. But I don't want to subject my daughter to it.

and funny I'd take dog slobber over raw meat juice any day, lol. I am still not comfortable doing raw at all. But I'll keep educating myself about it.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

NRB said:


> yup I know that germs are everywhere. But my friend is a USDA international meat inspector, actually a chief in DC. Anyway through her I am aware that our meat contains acceptable levels of e-coli, listeria and salmanella. So it isn't a question of If it's in the meat, we know that it is. USDA accepts these levels of contamination b/c our meat is supposed to be cooked before consumed by humans. So knowing that there is that stuff in our meat, (and since I've spent the last 10 days sick due to eating under cooked lamb) I'm worried that my daughter will get some tainted meat. She is dog obsessed to put it lightly, is with the dog all the time, and gets kisses from the dog on a regular basis. The dog kisses is something that I've been training 2+ years to stop and just hasn't happened. I can't stop the kisses.
> 
> So it is good to hear from an imuno compromised individual.
> 
> ...


dogs are built differently than we are, which is why the standards for feeding raw are different.

on the other hand, my dogs don't eat tainted meat....what constitutes tainted meat? that salmonella is everywhere?

something to think about is this. dogs have some pretty powerful acids to kill bacteria.....so passing it on to us is almost moo.

the largest e.coli breakout was vegetables....particularly spinach in salinas, CA......i'd worry more about that then i would about a raw fed dog. 

but, to each his own.....


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

I guess I have a raw meat phobia. I'm not worried about the meat in the dogs mouth and then the dog licking me. I'm worried about the meat in the beard, festering. I guess the best analogy would be if I prepared raw meat, spilled juices all over the front of my shirt and on my shirt sleeve. Then I wore that shirt all day, to the nursery school where I work and etc. So same with meat juices in the dog beard. They are not getting attacked by the dogs acids that are located in the saliva. They are just on the beard, like the meat juice on my sleeve. 

And I think that your dogs do eat tainted meat. I think the USDA allows tainted meat to be sold. It's just got a level of pathogens that are killed off when cooked. Hence safe for human consumption after cooking. I don't think that the pathogens are harmful to the dogs either. I think they can handle it fine.

Same thing; I'm cooking chicken for my family, the empty package spills meat juices on my clothes as I take it to the trash. I don't keep the clothes on and hug my child, let her rub her cheek up against my leg (she pretends to be a cat) and let her get into contact with the spill. No I would change my clothes asap and wash the soiled clothes before wearing them again. 

Tainted meat; my friend was complaining about a problem at work one day. The US had shipped a boatload (literally) of chicken to China and China had refused the shipment claiming the meat had dangerous levels of whatever in it. So they sent the ship back to the US. The US company sent another ship. Same thing happened. My friend was exasperated. I asked why? She explained that the meat was deemed safe for consumption by US standards b/c you are supposed to cook the chicken to a certain temperature before you eat it. That cooking kills off the pathogens (germs... I don't recall what the germ was) BUT and here is the kicker..... China has a zero tolerance policy on anything being found in the meat. Yup, China has higher standards than the US. Maybe b/c CHina doesn't cook the meat as much as we do. Who knows. Point is We allow out meat to be tainted, China does not. Friend was exasperated b/c in the eyes of the USDA this shipment of chicken was perfectly safe. And it was the same stuff sold in the US to you and me.


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## katielou (Apr 29, 2010)

Alcohol swabs will be your friend. 

Abe is a very messy eater it gets all over his face and feet. I just wipe him over with a alcohol wipe my husband brine home from work.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

perhaps raw feeding is not for you.

i really wish, though, that the information you get is not hearsay....

maybe home cooking would work better for you...with heavy latex gloves.

i get the phobia. i had the phobia when a surgeon put mrsa into my neck with unsterile stitches. that took three surgeries to fix. 

i understand. but what you're saying doesn't have to be true. don't buy products from china, especially their rabbits and their chickens. 

know from where your own meat comes from....

i hope you don't drink milk. the usda allows for a certain amount of bacteria in milk, grown in the us of a.

and i'd stay away from spinach too, since the biggest outbreak of e. coli was in salinas, california....

and maybe do a cooked diet for your dogs...lew olson has a pretty good book out and includes cooked recipes that are balanced.


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## NRB (Sep 19, 2009)

I got just had a 10 day (still ongoing) bought of GI upset (you don't need the details) from eating undercooked meat that I bought (and cooked myself) from WHole Foods. No big deal, the weight loss is an added benefit and I'll get over it I'm sure. It doesn't make me want to stop eating chicken and lamb from Whole Foods. I will cook it a little longer. ANd in 20+ years of cooking this is the first time it has happened. SO odds are in my favor of it not happening again soon.

The story I told is true, and told by a upper level chief in the international meat inspection unit in Wash DC. It was USA meat that was shipped to China, not the other way around. I personally don't buy foods form China, like frozen spinach. Lol, neither does the USDA friend. 

I'm not that paranoid about germs, it's just raw meat apparently. I personally figure if I get salmonella from tainted spinich or strawberries it's just bad luck, what can you do. If I get sick from eating under cooked meat it's my own damn fault for putting it into my mouth knowing it's undercooked.


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## MagicRe (Jan 8, 2010)

NRB said:


> I got just had a 10 day (still ongoing) bought of GI upset (you don't need the details) from eating undercooked meat that I bought (and cooked myself) from WHole Foods. No big deal, the weight loss is an added benefit and I'll get over it I'm sure. It doesn't make me want to stop eating chicken and lamb from Whole Foods. I will cook it a little longer. ANd in 20+ years of cooking this is the first time it has happened. SO odds are in my favor of it not happening again soon.
> 
> The story I told is true, and told by a upper level chief in the international meat inspection unit in Wash DC. It was USA meat that was shipped to China, not the other way around. I personally don't buy foods form China, like frozen spinach. Lol, neither does the USDA friend.
> 
> I'm not that paranoid about germs, it's just raw meat apparently. I personally figure if I get salmonella from tainted spinich or strawberries it's just bad luck, what can you do. If I get sick from eating under cooked meat it's my own damn fault for putting it into my mouth knowing it's undercooked.


fair enough.....and i'm sorry you got sick.

here's the thing. i don't consider it to be bad luck if i get sick from eating spinach tainted with salmonella. i think it's criminal that the water where the cows were ......and was leeching into the roots of the vegetables..the water source was too close..can you imagine? that's no accident. that's just simply not caring. that's big ag.

that's not bad luck. that's criminal.

as to meat and everything edible under the sun...the moment it hits air, it's 'contaminated' by the germs that are everywhere. milk, as soon as the pasteurisation process is over....before you ever open the bottle, it's germinating because there are a certain amount of bacteria allowed to stay in pasteurised milk.....and every time the bottle is opened....more germs.

there are germs on your counter, on your skin, they are everywhere.....

i hear what you're saying about raw meat...for the longest time, i couldn't touch it...i was that phobic. after all, i had mrsa in my neck. i still shudder when i think about it.

but friction kills most bacteria, so we wipe our counters, we wash our hands....

i just wish you didn't have such a problem with raw meat, since it's probably one of the least likely to make you sick, unless you lick your fingers after handling it raw 

but i have vegan friends, if it helps, who solved their phobias by wearing gloves and using baby wipes on their dogs' feet and face...

personally, i would never use alcohol on a dog....but that's just me.

ah, i misunderstood. usa meat shipped to china.....there are quite a few who are fighting this very thing. monsanto just lost a major case in France...the farmer brought suit against them for their modified grains...

there are grass roots groups who are tired of feedlot cattle and inhumane feeding...and slaughtering.....and it's starting to show.

i know exactly from where my food comes.....because there are so many who are so greed driven, it's the only thing i can do to protect myself and my dogs...at least it gives us a fighting chance


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