# Please help newbie with dog obedience training 101 questions



## Stella's Dad (Jul 2, 2014)

Hello Dog lovers!

Although strictly speaking we are not first time dog owners, my wife and I have recently adopted a 4 year old lab mix, and I am posting here looking for some basic training advice. Our new dog is very sweet and well socialized, but she has a few bad habits. I am really hoping that with time and lots of treats, she will become a well behaved part of the family. I also realized that I know next to nothing about dog training, and need a lot of help myself, and some treats for me wouldn't hurt either ;-) I have been doing a lot of reading online, but there's always conflicting opinions and so much of it is for puppies, that I thought I'd ask some questions here about our specific dog and situation. I do understand that no one training method will work for all dogs all the time, but I'm trying to get at least a handle on the basics. I'm not afraid to spend time with her working on things, but I want to do my best to make sure I'm doing those things correctly and efficiently.

To start with, let me say that Stella is a 4 year old Lab mix, and is basically a blank slate. She does kind of know sit, stay, and shake, but that's about it. Also, we just got her and named her Stella, so she is working on learning her name, or at least looking at us when we say her name. Her biggest problems right now that I would like to address are that she's a bit of a jumper when you first get home, although that's already calming down, and she pulls on the leash, which I would really like to work on. Additionally, she is sometimes a little mouthy and can bit a little, though this isn't really aggression, it's excitement and bad manors more than anything else. Oh, and she tends to run from us if she gets out off the leash. These are the most important things that *I* want her to learn, what do I have to do to get her there?

I'll also add that we would definitely like to try the whole positive reward system of training first. It makes sense, and just seems right. I did get a couple of clickers, a treat bag, and I have some baked up chicken hot dogs quartered and sliced into little pie shapes, along with some plain grilled chicken chunks of similar size to encourage her. But I have read that with this style of training you're supposed to ignore the bad, and just reward the good behaviors. I read that you are supposed to eliminate the word "No!" from your vocabulary, and never scold or physically punish the dog. OK fine, but what do you do when she's doing something obviously bad, and it can't simply be ignored? For example, we were all relaxing on our deck recently, and I turned and looked and Stella was up in one of our garden planters digging her way to China, presumably, throwing potting mix and bits of shredded plants and flowers all over the deck. It's a little funny, but kind of tough to ignore that kind of a behavior, so what do I do in those situations? Is it OK to say "No!" or "Bad dog!"? Can I just gently grab her by the collar and get her off my planter box or whatever she's into? What do I do in these types of situations?

Also, the clicker does make a lot of sense, but it is just a little impractical and inconvenient at times, so is the clicker really the best thing, or is it better to use a key word like "Yes!" or "Good!" in place of the click?

Probably the most important thing for me is that I want her to heel and walk without pulling the leash. What is the most effective way to get her to stop pulling on the leash? What is step one, meaning, does she have to have her name and "sit" and "stay" down 110% before I can start loose leash training? I have looked into the front hook harness solution, is this a viable option or would traditional training be better. I have tried to lure her with a treat in my left hand in front of her nose when we walk, but she basically just grabs the treat and then runs off ahead of me. I also believe this is making her even more "mouthy" because now shes grabbing at my hands hoping there will be a yummy in there. It's not a hard bit at all, but I pretty sure this behavior needs to be nipped in the bud now. So I'm a little stumped on the best way to get her walking on the politely on the leash, any suggestions? I should add that I have a 3 foot leash the shelter gave us, I have a 6 foot leash because I though that was the standard, I have a 25 foot retractable leash I kind of wish we never bought, and I am hoping to order a high quality 50 foot training lead to work on her recall. I currently have a flat nylon collar for her, and would consider getting a front hooking harness, but she doesn't need any kind of choker, and I personally just can't get past the look of the Gentle Leader type harnesses. Any thoughts?

Could someone suggest a method of getting her to stop jumping up to greet us? She's not the worst I've ever seen, but she needs to learn to keep all four paws on the floor. We've tried simply ignoring her, looking up at the ceiling, and "making like a tree", but I'm not sure it's helping. Honestly, she jumps up, lands again, and is off after something else so fast that I don't think she even notices that we are ignoring her. Is this the best method? Is there anything else that works?

How about "time out" for dogs? I've had some people tell me I need a crate or "time out" room/area for when the dog is bad, but isn't forcing them into a crate or room when they've done wrong contrary to the positive reinforcement system? And I don't know much about using a crate for training, but I thought the crate was a positive place where the dog could feel secure, so I don't understand how it's also used as a discipline. Although, I guess that's no different then sending a human kid to their room...

I know that's a lot all at once, but clearly we are confused, and just want to make sure we're doing things right. I don't really want to have to retrain either us or the dog from any bad habits, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Small steps are fine too, if someone could just please get me going on the first one or two things I need to do to get to our ultimate goals that would be a big help.

Thanks very much for your time and help!

-Stella's Dad


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Welcome!

In your example where she is digging, of course you can't ignore it, but the problem with "no" is that dogs don't innately know what "no" means. Some dogs will figure out the tone of your voice, and others won't have a clue what you're talking about. It works much better to train what you *do* want her to do. So teach a "leave it", and teach her to come back to you when you call, and then you will have ways to deal with the digging. Until she has learned those things, manage her environment so she can't dig - either keep her on leash, fence off the area temporarily, etc. Does that make sense? It's not about ignoring the bad so much as it is about teaching something that is incompatible with the bad behavior. Ignoring only works if the dog is trying to get attention from you - if they are doing something self-reinforcing, like digging or barking, ignoring won't work. Management is also important so they can't continue to self-reinforce while you are teaching the other behavior. You can certainly take her collar and lead her away, but long term it won't keep her from digging.

Most of us here use "yes" in place of the click in every day life. The clicker is fantastic for teaching very tough specific behaviors, but once those behaviors are taught most people use "yes". I personally use "good" to mean "That was right, keep going and you will be rewarded eventually" while "yes" is the same as a click and means the behavior is over and the treat is coming. You don't have to make that distinction of course, but I find it helpful for some things.

For leash walking, Google "Silky leash" and "penalty yards". Both are great techniques. It can help to get a management tool in the mean time, like an Easy Walk Harness or something to make walks easier while you work on training. One thing is that you will need to decide how you really want her to walk - some people want their dog close to heel position and not sniffing, while others don't care what the dog is doing as long as it's not pulling. 

For jumping, start by ignoring her when she jumps, and petting and praising when she stops. It can help to have her on leash and let someone hold the leash - you approach, she jumps, you back up. Alternatively, teach her to sit and ask her to sit every time you come in - she can't sit and jump at the same time.

Time outs can work, and they can be useless - depends on the dog and how clear the idea of a time out is. My friends used it for their mouthy dog and he caught on immediately. I tried it for mine and he has never once understood why I was putting him in his crate or what he was supposed to learn from it. So it depends. Most people will recommend keeping the crate a positive place, and using a bathroom or spare bedroom as the time out area, so the dog doesn't develop negative association with the crate. The timeout shouldn't be harsh punishment though - more to show the dog that fun things end when they mouth, or bark, or whatever.

ETA: I highly recommend finding a basic obedience class in your area! They go through a lot of the issues you described and having someone show you in person is so valuable.

Also, look up Kikopup on Youtube. She has videos on how to train all of the things you're asking about.


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## Stella's Dad (Jul 2, 2014)

Wow, thank you so much for that great reply!



elrohwen said:


> Welcome!
> 
> In your example where she is digging, of course you can't ignore it, but the problem with "no" is that dogs don't innately know what "no" means. Some dogs will figure out the tone of your voice, and others won't have a clue what you're talking about. It works much better to train what you *do* want her to do. So teach a "leave it", and teach her to come back to you when you call, and then you will have ways to deal with the digging. Until she has learned those things, manage her environment so she can't dig - either keep her on leash, fence off the area temporarily, etc. Does that make sense? It's not about ignoring the bad so much as it is about teaching something that is incompatible with the bad behavior. Ignoring only works if the dog is trying to get attention from you - if they are doing something self-reinforcing, like digging or barking, ignoring won't work. Management is also important so they can't continue to self-reinforce while you are teaching the other behavior. You can certainly take her collar and lead her away, but long term it won't keep her from digging.


That makes perfect sense. I need to teach her "leave it", and use that to first distract her, and then have her come to me instead of getting into trouble.



> Most of us here use "yes" in place of the click in every day life. The clicker is fantastic for teaching very tough specific behaviors, but once those behaviors are taught most people use "yes". I personally use "good" to mean "That was right, keep going and you will be rewarded eventually" while "yes" is the same as a click and means the behavior is over and the treat is coming. You don't have to make that distinction of course, but I find it helpful for some things.


OK, that's basically what I was thinking with the clicker; I think it makes sense to use "Yes!" in place of the click because it's always with you. However, you talk about using "Good" to let your dog know s/he is on the right track, so to speak. Is this like when I'm trying to teach "Sit" and "Stay", which she kind of already knows? Meaning, I have her sit, and I say "Stay". I know deep down that I'm not supposed to repeat commands, but I find myself repeating, "Stay... Stay... Staaaaay..." to get her to stay. So instead of repeating "Stay" can I use "Good" to keep her in place, and then "Yes!" and treat when it's been long enough? I remember from when I was a kid, our family dog went to dog school briefly, and I remember learning then to give them a release at the end of the stay, such as "OK!". So I have been saying "OK!" at the end of a long stay, clicking, treating, and praising. Is that still that correct thing to do, and would I be best to just use "Good!" and "Yes!" and treat/praise with the "Yes" (releasing her with the "Yes!")?



> For leash walking, Google "Silky leash" and "penalty yards". Both are great techniques. It can help to get a management tool in the mean time, like an Easy Walk Harness or something to make walks easier while you work on training. One thing is that you will need to decide how you really want her to walk - some people want their dog close to heel position and not sniffing, while others don't care what the dog is doing as long as it's not pulling.


Thank you, I will look at both those products when I have more time. I am not opposed to using a training aid to help her stop pulling, but I have definitely seen dogs that are worse, and I don't really have a problem holding her back or anything like that, so if I can accomplish this by training I'd prefer that. I was already looking at the Easy Walk, and will check out the others and see if maybe this is the best way to go. This may be a lofty goal, but I always dreamed of having a dog that would walk calmly at my left side, stopping and sitting when I stopped, even without a leash. So I would prefer to try to get Stella in the habit of that classic "heel" like I'm describing, but if we fall short of that I'd still be happy if she just kept pace with us, and listened to us despite distractions.



> For jumping, start by ignoring her when she jumps, and petting and praising when she stops. It can help to have her on leash and let someone hold the leash - you approach, she jumps, you back up. Alternatively, teach her to sit and ask her to sit every time you come in - she can't sit and jump at the same time.


OK, we are working on "becoming a tree" when she jumps, and trying to praise her when her feet hit the ground. Again, she is far from the worst at jumping, but we want to address it, so we'll keep working on it.



> Time outs can work, and they can be useless - depends on the dog and how clear the idea of a time out is. My friends used it for their mouthy dog and he caught on immediately. I tried it for mine and he has never once understood why I was putting him in his crate or what he was supposed to learn from it. So it depends.


So would you recommend getting a crate and using it for "time outs" if it's effective for our dog? I was just reading about crates, and now I'm wondering if it's a viable option for us. As suggested to me by community member Amaryllis in my first welcome post, I have been watching the YouTube channel of Zak George, and he suggests using a crate as a training tool. Any thoughts?

Thank you again for your time and help, I really appreciate it!

-Stella's Dad


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Stella's Dad said:


> OK, that's basically what I was thinking with the clicker; I think it makes sense to use "Yes!" in place of the click because it's always with you. However, you talk about using "Good" to let your dog know s/he is on the right track, so to speak. Is this like when I'm trying to teach "Sit" and "Stay", which she kind of already knows? Meaning, I have her sit, and I say "Stay". I know deep down that I'm not supposed to repeat commands, but I find myself repeating, "Stay... Stay... Staaaaay..." to get her to stay. So instead of repeating "Stay" can I use "Good" to keep her in place, and then "Yes!" and treat when it's been long enough? I remember from when I was a kid, our family dog went to dog school briefly, and I remember learning then to give them a release at the end of the stay, such as "OK!". So I have been saying "OK!" at the end of a long stay, clicking, treating, and praising. Is that still that correct thing to do, and would I be best to just use "Good!" and "Yes!" and treat/praise with the "Yes" (releasing her with the "Yes!")?


I like "good" for duration behaviors like heeling, or a behavior chain where I want my dog to know that the first part was good but he needs to keep going. I think it's more useful in things like agility or competition obedience vs just basic manners, but it can still be helpful. If you're on a walk and she's doing well you can say "good" so she knows that she's doing the right thing, and that if she keeps doing it she can be rewarded. It's useful for the "stay" as well.

"Ok" is your release word, so not quite the same as "yes". "Yes" is like a click and the dog gets a treat every time (or some other form of reward) and it also releases the dog and ends the behavior. "Ok" just ends the behavior but doesn't the dog will necessarily get a treat. It just means the dog is free to do something else. In the say, you should click before the end of the stay, not after you have released her. By clicking after she's released she's just learning what "ok" means, but not necessarily what "stay" meant.




> Thank you, I will look at both those products when I have more time. I am not opposed to using a training aid to help her stop pulling, but I have definitely seen dogs that are worse, and I don't really have a problem holding her back or anything like that, so if I can accomplish this by training I'd prefer that. I was already looking at the Easy Walk, and will check out the others and see if maybe this is the best way to go. This may be a lofty goal, but I always dreamed of having a dog that would walk calmly at my left side, stopping and sitting when I stopped, even without a leash. So I would prefer to try to get Stella in the habit of that classic "heel" like I'm describing, but if we fall short of that I'd still be happy if she just kept pace with us, and listened to us despite distractions.


One issue a lot of people face (including me) is that proper leash training can take a while, and you have to be super consistent or the dog doesn't learn anything. So if you have a young high energy dog who *needs* a long walk, but doesn't know how to walk correctly yet, it can be very helpful to use something like an Easy Walk. You might not even make it around the block on a training walk, but the dog might still need to get out for 3 miles to wear off energy. For others that's not an issue. 

Keep in mind that the "heel" you are envisioning is very very hard for many dogs. So hard that a competition heel takes years to perfect. It takes a ton of concentration and focus from the dog. Some don't struggle with this as much as others, but keep in mind that it might not be worth the struggle to get to that level. I work with my dog on a competition heel all the time, but on walks he's free to sniff around and do his own thing (often on a 10-20ft leash) because that's very fulfilling for him and wears him out more. Like I said, every dog is different so find what works for you and your dog and what you both enjoy. 




> So would you recommend getting a crate and using it for "time outs" if it's effective for our dog? I was just reading about crates, and now I'm wondering if it's a viable option for us. As suggested to me by community member Amaryllis in my first welcome post, I have been watching the YouTube channel of Zak George, and he suggests using a crate as a training tool. Any thoughts?


I wouldn't recommend getting a crate *just* for timeouts, because that will probably make it a negative place. It's very useful to have a dog who is ok being crated if you need to travel, or the dog needs to stay at the vet. My dog is crated often for various reasons, and I have used it for timeouts, but more in the sense that he is getting too wild and needs to settle, and the crate can help him settle. It still doesn't work for him because he settles in the crate, then comes back out as wild as he went in. Haha. So I would recommend making the crate a happy relaxed place for your dog, and choosing another room or area as the time out space if necessary, just so you don't poison the crate and make it a negative place. I mentioned that timeouts worked well for my friends' dog, but that's because he quickly picked up a negative association with being shut in the spare bedroom by himself away from his people - if they had used his crate, he may have developed a negative association with his crate. Not that he won't enter that spare bedroom, but he wouldn't be happy about having to go in there by himself, while he's perfectly happy to go in his crate when the leave. Does that make sense?


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

elrohwen said:


> dogs don't innately know what "no" means. Some dogs will figure out the tone of your voice, and others won't have a clue what you're talking about. It works much better to train what you *do* want her to do.


 I'm just going to reiterate this....Stella, or any other dog doesn't start out knowing what NO means....its all in the body language, tone and physical associations with it. A person could beat a dog and say "Bubblegum!!" while they did it, and the dog would likely at least flinch every time it heard "bubblegum"....but No would likely mean nothing. A disapproving tone (as long as it isn't all our yelling or anything) doesn't hurt most dogs (though some can be very sensitive!)...it might actually help communication a bit. I just use a lower pitch when my girl isn't doing the right thing, I might say No, or back off (if she is sniffing at a plate lol), so she generally just tries doing something else that'll get her the "good girl" tone and maybe a treat. That's me though, and my girl isn't sensitive.....that said, check out Kikopup on Youtube, she is an excellent resource for basic training (yeah, its mostly puppies but really, it still applies!), but don't take her distaste for the word No to heart too much. Her methods are a fantastic starting point for pretty much anybody, puppy or full grown dog. There are a LOT of contrary opinions on dog training out there....you need to find what you are comfortable with and what works for you and Stella....already sounds like you prefer to stay positive, so you've got a great start there!



Stella's Dad said:


> Thank you, I will look at both those products when I have more time. I am not opposed to using a training aid to help her stop pulling, but I have definitely seen dogs that are worse, and I don't really have a problem holding her back or anything like that, so if I can accomplish this by training I'd prefer that.


Heh....Sorry I got a little giggle....the Silky Lead and Penalty Yards aren't products, they're actually methods (don't feel bad, I didn't know either at one point!). Here is a link for a video on Silky Lead Excellent method!
Videos for Penalty Yards I found were pretty tough to get, but I'll give you two videos, the First One, and the Second One. You can actually use both methods combined, especially when you get to the stage of working around distractions. 

As for using any additional tools for helping with the pulling. The first video suggests a front leading harness or head harness for regular/exercise walks (as opposed to training on the flat collar...). I do want to suggest, if Stella ever has a tendency to bolt (run really fast to the end of the lead), definitely go for the front leading harness, the head halter can be very hard on the neck of a dog if it bolts....if she is just steadily walking faster than you, and that is all that it ever is, you could consider the head halter. 

One last thing I'll mention, that you may know, but you might have to remind yourself of every now and then....it takes longer than you want it to to get a dog trained on some things, and it takes a lot of patience. It NEVER goes as smoothly as in the Kikopup videos lol. If you are getting stressed or frustrated, take a break from the training, toss the ball for a bit or something. I'd also highly recommend, when and if you feel ready, a basic group obedience class. You can teach everything at home, but the different environment adds some distractions that are hard to simulate....and it can be a great opportunity for you and Stella, as well as being fun!!
Welcome, and good luck!!


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

I have a dog so sensitive (referred to as "soft" in the dog world) I had to counter condition him to disapproval. random disapproval was upsetting him. That's really extreme, it's unlikely your dog is that way. Kabota is . . . Special.

Crate training isn't a bad idea at all. Vets use crates, groomers use crates, etc., so having your dog okay with the crate is good even if you never use it yourself. Kabota was kept in a crate literally 24/7 for at least a year. He destroyed half his teeth trying to chew his way out. He's terrified of them now, and it's difficult. I had a groomer who let him roam, but I can't find one in Arlington, so he's scruffy. I bathe him, and hate it, but I'm notgoing near him with clippers. Zak is right in my opinion.


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## Greater Swiss (Jun 7, 2011)

Amaryllis said:


> I have a dog so sensitive (referred to as "soft" in the dog world) I had to counter condition him to disapproval. random disapproval was upsetting him. That's really extreme, it's unlikely your dog is that way. Kabota is . . . Special.


 Dexter was pretty crazy sensitive at first, not quite like Kabota, but certain tone of voice would make him hunch down (I felt so bad, because it is the tone of voice Caeda responds to really well, with no issues). One thing I did with Caeda (and it seemed to be ok for Dexter, even at first), if she was not responding to a command, or even just doing something she shouldn't, I'd just say her name and clear my throat, or even just say "excuse me" in a slightly sarcastic (but not really deep or disapproving) tone and it got her attention. Seemed to work really well without even upsetting the more sensitive Dexter.


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## goodgirl (Jan 14, 2013)

Sounds like you lucked out with Stella being a "blank slate," now you can train her how you'd like for you lifestyle. I think it's so good that you're willing to put the time in to do it right. Clicker training is lots of fun -- if you start with a clicker (easier for her, not you necessarily!), you can use the clicker and marker word at the same time to show when she's correct, then use just a marker for easier (for her) tasks, and for when you don't have a clicker on you. She will understand. The clicker will help her learn quicker tho, and will help her to learn how to learn, if that makes sense. Something else that will help her learn quicker is using hand signals for cues first, and add the verbal cue when she's got the hand signal down pat about 80% of the time. Makes it much easier for them.

For the things like digging in your planter, "Use of a Positive Interrupter" (see kikopup YouTube video) works fantastic! You can avoid saying no all the time, save that stern voiced "No!" for times when she could get hurt or something. It also encourages her to come when called which may be the most important thing to teach her - it can act as kind of a prelude to recall training. After interrupting her behavior then you can show her what TO do. Instead of digging, for example, play fetch!

For your loose leash walking (or any training) you might have to teach her to take treats politely - a good first step. See "doggie zen" or "hand zen." Also, experiment with different treat deliveries - on the ground, from your hand, tossing to her for an air grab. Different deliveries in different situations can help hold her interest around distractions. It makes them think. I have an easy walk harness and a freedom harness. They're both no pull harnesses but depending on your dog's body shape one will fit her better than the other. There must be scads of other options too, for the most comfortable fit. I like the easy walk for pit types, the freedom for my collie mix, because the easy walk rides on her shoulder blades a bit.

For jumping on you a gentle body block while stepping slightly (or leaning if you're sitting down) into her space - without putting your hands on her (she will see your hands on her as rewarding!) can help. It sounds awkward, but remember, she is going almost entirely by your body language and noticing what your hands are doing. She probably won't understand what you're saying yet, just a word here and there


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## Stella's Dad (Jul 2, 2014)

Hello, and thank you to everyone who has read and/or replied to my thread! I really appreciate your help, and i'm sorry I have not responded sooner, but despite being subscribed to this thread I'm not getting emails when someone replies. But we do really appreciate all the help, and we really do need it!



Greater Swiss said:


> Heh....Sorry I got a little giggle....the Silky Lead and Penalty Yards aren't products, they're actually methods (don't feel bad, I didn't know either at one point!). Here is a link for a video on Silky Lead Excellent method!
> Videos for Penalty Yards I found were pretty tough to get, but I'll give you two videos, the First One, and the Second One. You can actually use both methods combined, especially when you get to the stage of working around distractions.


LOL, OK you definitely caught me there! I replied to that post quickly without further research, and I assumed that a "Silky Leash" was some kind of harness like the Easy Walk or Gentle Leader, not a system of training. See, I told you all I was a newb ;-)

Yes, we do really want to get Stella to a professional training class, but unfortunately she is not yet spayed, and so none of the schools around here will accept her until she's fixed. She had come into the shelter pregnant, and had 6 pups that were all adopted out. The cost to have her spayed is included in the adoption fees we paid, but the vets at the shelter take the summer off because it's a teaching school for vet techs, so it won't be until the middle of August before we're able to get her in for her surgery. In the meantime, I'd like to be working on things myself, but I realize now more than ever that there's so many little nuances to dog training that I thought I'd ask for help here before we can get to a professional locally. But "real" training classes, along with their play park for dogs, is part of our plan for Stella to keep her well socialized with other dogs and people.

For training videos, after a recommendation from Amaryllis in a previous thread, I found Zak George's YouTube channel, and so far I really like him. He seems knowledgeable in the positive reinforcement style of training, and is well spoken, or at least well edited. This is just the kind of help I am looking for; it's great to see him actually working with a dog live on video. That said, so many people have now suggested Kikopup that I owe it to myself to check out her video series too, and I will as soon as I can.

I will also say that I've already noticed how NOTHING I do goes as well as any of the training videos I've watched, lol! I do know that training will take A LOT of patients, learning on my part, and treats for both dog and handler, but I am not expecting overnight results. I'm planing on going slowly, and having fun with this, and I'm hoping it helps to establish a greater bond with Stella as we work with her. And as far as being able to get her to heel like I described above, I know that's probably something I'll never see, but that's my vision of how a dog should heel, and I'd like to work towards that. I'd prefer the dog on my left, but would be happy if she just keeps pace with us and ignores distractions. That would be fine, really.

I do still have so many little questions, but I think I will try to watch a lot of these training videos in the hopes that they explain some of what I'm confused about. I will definitely check out "Doggie Zen" too, I think there's a sticky about that here on this forum. I think this may help with training Stella, since she's always trying to get the treat out of my hands.

But, this does lead me to a specific question for today. As I mentioned in my initial post, one of Stella's bad habits is she can be a little mouthy and a bit of a bitter. It's not a hard bite, but I don't consider it to be acceptable dog behavior. And now, it seems to have gotten a little worse with my wife, for example, in the middle of last night Stella nipped my wife twice because she wouldn't wake up and play with her. So this biting thing has got to stop now before it gets worse. Would anyone have any suggestions for this? Is this a case where a "Time out" might work? I think this is basically puppy biting that Stella just never grew out of because she never had much training, but she's about 4 years old, so how do I correct this in an adult dog?

And just another quickie for now: Again, a lot of basic obedience training info I've found is directed towards puppies. What are the differences I need to be aware of when training an older dog who hasn't had much previous training?

Again, thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it!

-Stella's Dad


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Training an older dog is (IMO) much easier because they actually have an attention span! Seriously though, you approach it in basically the same way. 

For puppy biting, it's best to remove yourself from the situation when she gets too nippy. This teaches her that when she gets mouthy, it gets boring and no fun. She'll learn to stop, it just takes time and consistency. 

I also just wanted to give you credit. All too often people are on here that have put little to no thought into dog ownership, refuse to take advice, and set their dog up for failure. So, I just wanted to give you a virtual high-five and say thank you for taking the time to research and put the time and effort in. I wish more new dog owners were like you!


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Time outs in a spare bedroom worked very well for my friends' dog when he was mouthy. They got him at ~10 months so he wasn't a little puppy anymore. They just quietly walked him to the room every time he bit them and left him in there for a couple minutes by himself. After a couple weeks they could say "Do you want to go to your room?" and he would stop biting. Haha

That doesn't work with my own dog at all. I have to be the one to leave the room or walk away, because by the time he's in time out he has no idea why.


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## Stella's Dad (Jul 2, 2014)

ireth0 said:


> Training an older dog is (IMO) much easier because they actually have an attention span! Seriously though, you approach it in basically the same way.
> 
> For puppy biting, it's best to remove yourself from the situation when she gets too nippy. This teaches her that when she gets mouthy, it gets boring and no fun. She'll learn to stop, it just takes time and consistency.
> 
> I also just wanted to give you credit. All too often people are on here that have put little to no thought into dog ownership, refuse to take advice, and set their dog up for failure. So, I just wanted to give you a virtual high-five and say thank you for taking the time to research and put the time and effort in. I wish more new dog owners were like you!


Thank you very much for the advice and the compliment! But to be honest, I am feeling bad that we didn't do more research about dog training and care before getting this new pooch. Although my family has had dogs, and my wife had our Lexi from before we even met, Stella is really the first dog that's basically mine. I don't take this kind of thing lightly, I do have a degree in biology and have years of experience keeping a wide variety of reptiles, fancy aquariums, and even cats, but I'm largely a beginner with dog care, other than obvious things that everyone knows. I wish I was a little more prepared right from the beginning, but we're learning everyday. Thank you again for your help!

-Stella's Dad


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Stella's Dad said:


> Thank you very much for the advice and the compliment! But to be honest, I am feeling bad that we didn't do more research about dog training and care before getting this new pooch. Although my family has had dogs, and my wife had our Lexi from before we even met, Stella is really the first dog that's basically mine. I don't take this kind of thing lightly, I do have a degree in biology and have years of experience keeping a wide variety of reptiles, fancy aquariums, and even cats, but I'm largely a beginner with dog care, other than obvious things that everyone knows. I wish I was a little more prepared right from the beginning, but we're learning everyday. Thank you again for your help!
> 
> -Stella's Dad


There's still quite a learning curve when you get a first dog, even if you've done a ton of research. Nothing compares to doing it for real! You can watch 100 trainers train dogs, but working with your own dog will teach you so much more.

Have you looked into basic obedience classes? I think that would be great for you and Stella. Having an instructor show you what to do and correct your mistakes is so valuable. Plus, the other dogs and new environment provide good distractions to work through.


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## Stella's Dad (Jul 2, 2014)

elrohwen said:


> Time outs in a spare bedroom worked very well for my friends' dog when he was mouthy. They got him at ~10 months so he wasn't a little puppy anymore. They just quietly walked him to the room every time he bit them and left him in there for a couple minutes by himself. After a couple weeks they could say "Do you want to go to your room?" and he would stop biting. Haha
> 
> That doesn't work with my own dog at all. I have to be the one to leave the room or walk away, because by the time he's in time out he has no idea why.


Yes, you mentioned this in a prior post, but thank you for reiterating it here. So I think with the biting or mouthing it comes down to quickly and quietly removing yourself, or the dog, from the situation. I have read a little about this, and I think that you play with your dog normally, but as soon as you feel their teeth on your skin you take action. Now, my question is would it work for us to use either a time out for the dog, or having us leave the room, depending on what's more convenient for us at the time? For example, in the middle of the night when we're sleeping we would lead the dog to the bathroom or some other "time out" area. But if we're playing in the yard and have her on a 25 foot tether, it seems better that when she bites, we simply walk away out for the 25 foot range for a minute or two. So does that work?

OK, time to head out for some real training ;-) Thank you so much for all your help, I very much appreciate it!

-SD


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

The important part is that play time ends when her teeth is on your skin - it doesn't matter so much how you accomplish that. She'll get that idea that interaction with her people is fun, but they ignore her when she bites, so she should stop biting.


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## Stella's Dad (Jul 2, 2014)

elrohwen said:


> There's still quite a learning curve when you get a first dog, even if you've done a ton of research. Nothing compares to doing it for real! You can watch 100 trainers train dogs, but working with your own dog will teach you so much more.
> 
> Have you looked into basic obedience classes? I think that would be great for you and Stella. Having an instructor show you what to do and correct your mistakes is so valuable. Plus, the other dogs and new environment provide good distractions to work through.


You said it! Nothing goes quite as well as it looks in the videos, lol! And yes, we do want to go to a professional trainer locally, but the school we like will not take her until she's spayed, and unfortunately she's not spayed yet. We have a voucher from the shelter where we got her that covers the cost of her procedure, but for whatever reasons the earliest they can get her in will be mid August. Until then we'd like to get started on at least the basics.

Thanks again for your time and help!

-SD


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## Stella's Dad (Jul 2, 2014)

elrohwen said:


> The important part is that play time ends when her teeth is on your skin - it doesn't matter so much how you accomplish that. She'll get that idea that interaction with her people is fun, but they ignore her when she bites, so she should stop biting.


That's what I thought  OK, we'll work on that because I do want this biting thing to stop.

-SD


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

1. Nipping: http://www.dogforums.com/first-time-dog-owner/272649-my-dog-respects-no.html#post2907025

What you've described is training for Bite Inhibition. There's a specific set of steps that work great Labs - Check out the post above.

2. A dog jumps up to get close to your face. Two possible approaches: 1) Teach the dog a solid "Sit" and cue him to sit before he can jump, then give him attention OR
2) You can try to kneel down when greeting the dog... the danger is that he will tackle you and drown you 

3. When you use treats, make them a small taste, rather than a larger reward. The treat is only a 'marker' to let him know that he did the correct thing... it's not a 'reward'. Also, giving a taste, or even 3 tastes won't interrupt training. But, larger reward may require chewing, interrupting training ... (I know, Labs never chew!  )

4. When Stella gets loose and runs away, she may be hoping that you'll chase her. So, if you are running the other way and you call her, she may come chase you!

5. Withdrawing attention, putting a Lab into timeout, can be much more effective than any other type of punishment, if you set it up correctly. When he does something wrong, use a verbal marker, like "oops" or Yelp (see Bite Inhibition above), then use the timeout. The dog may learn to offer the appropriate behavior when he hears 'oops' to avoid the timeout punishment...


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