# I think I'm crate training the wrong way



## BlueDaisy (Feb 3, 2010)

We have an almost 9 week old shih-poo male puppy named Oliver.

We have a crate and have blocked off a section large enough for him to stand, turn around and sleep. We have a blanket in it and some of his toys.

The first two nights he slept in the crate in our dining room and he cried and screamed for hours on end. I seriously could not believe how long and how loud he screamed - I'm talking all night, as in 8 hours. He'd go between sleeping for 10-15 minutes and then crying/screaming for 30 minutes all night  But I figured it was part of the training. Then my in-laws told me that someone should sleep by the crate at night to comfort Oliver.

So Sunday and Monday night, he slept in his crate in our daughters' rooms. Our daughters slept on the floor by the crate. He slept all night and did not cry/scream once. He also did not pee/poop in the crate at all - and he was in there for at least 7-8 hours each time.

I'm a stay-at-home mom so I'm home during the day (the girls are in school). I tried to put Oliver in the crate during the day when I couldn't watch him but again, he screams like you would not believe and he chews the bars and almost tries to dig at the bottom of it, trying to get out. It's like he gets hysterical. And he sounds like he's being murdered.  

So I let him stay out of the crate during the day but I have the crate available with the door open should he ever want to go in there. I take him to go potty every 30-45 minutes as well after eating/playing/sleeping - he's had a few accidents the last couple of days (including in his crate - I started a whole new thread about _that_ issue) but for the most part, he's been pretty good about going potty. And then basically, he just follows me around the house the whole day. As you can imagine, it's very difficult trying to get anything done because I have to watch him like a hawk every second. 

I'm thinking that I'm doing this crate training thing all wrong and in fact, I'm not really crate training during the day, am I? When am I supposed to put him in his crate during the day? For how long? Do I just let him scream it out? He has spent the last few days having free roam around the house (following me) and sleeping wherever he wants during the day (on the couch, floor, wherever I happen to be). Have I just totally screwed up any chances of crate training him during the day?


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

Both my dogs will cry in the crates if I put them in there when I home, because they can hear me . But we dont use the crates during the day unless we go out...and sometimes when I cant deal with Maggie I will put her in there for a bit (very high energy JRT that chases the cat lol) I am also a stay at home mom and Bella (just over 4 months) used to be tethered to me or the couch at all times, unless she just went out to potty.

Maggie also cried in the crate at night when we brought her home until we put the crate by our bed and she licked my hubbys fingers and fell asleep  Now that is just where we keep the crates.

You could try putting the crate in a different room and covering when you cant watch the puppy and maybe giving it a filled kong to chew.


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## BlueDaisy (Feb 3, 2010)

He refuses to touch a Kong. I was hoping that would be the golden ticket but nope - he just ignores it. It even has peanut butter and treats in it!

I have tried lugging the crate around the house with me. Like yesterday and this morning, I took it into the bathroom with me so I could take a shower. He screamed the entire time - you would think I was using a taser on him or something! And I even kept opening the shower door to reassure him that I was still there but nothing soothed him except coming out of the crate. I at least tried to wait until he calmed down for a few seconds before opening the door as I'm trying not to let him think that screaming will get him what he wants ... but eventually it does.  I tried bringing the crate into the office with me as well, so I could get some computer work done but it's just about impossible to concentrate on work when he is acting like he's being murdered two feet away from me.

So, if I'm home, is it OK to have him out of the crate? Or is that defeating the entire premise of crate training? If I'm taking him out every 30-45 minutes to go potty whether he needs it or not, does he even need to be in the crate during the day for potty purposes? Should I keep doing what I'm doing and just put him in the crate whenever I need a break or have to go out and then just put up with the screaming, hoping he'll eventually get used to it?

I just don't know if having him out of the crate all day is counter-productive to the entire premise of crate training?


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

I guess it depends on your overal goal of crate training. I dont use it all during the day (unless Maggie is driving nuts like I said LOL) I dont have any real reason to have the dogs in the crate when we are home...more than trying to train them to be in the crates when we are home I want to train them to be able to behave out of the crate. (we are still working on this with both dogs LOL) I dont have a problem leaving them when I have to go out as I havent heard them when I come back...so I assuming Bella is being quiet 

I take both dogs with me when I have a shower I just make sure there is nothing for Bella to chew...like the garbage, toilet paper, socks etc. And I tethered Bella to me for potty training or kept a close eye on her...but she pretty much follows me around the house anyways...maybe it was her being tethered to me LOL

Have you tried the crate in a different room and covering it? He will probably cry some but he should get used to the crate...if he is sleeping there during the night my guess is he just wants to be with his "momma"


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

Crate training at my house...

Every dog rides home in the crate when we pick them up from previous owner/breeder/shelter/...

During the day...I take the dog out every two hours (or as needed after meals, etc) and if they are successful outside, get a food reward, and a short play session outside (weather permitting , only daytime potty trips). They are then allowed to be uncrated but tethered to me with a long leash indoors until they seem to get tired, need a nap, I can't supervise anymore. Then they go in the crate. If they are not successful outside then they go back into the crate and we try every 20-30 minutes. 

at night...our dogs all (even adults to this day) sleep in their crates at night. Some do fine in the bedroom, others have crates in the family room. I set an alarm for every 2 hours to take the dog out on potty trips (no lights, no fun, jsut potty and back to the crate...think night time diaper changes). I prefer not to have the dog whine to go out, just another reason for the dog to practice whining...NOT. If the dog is fine at two hours for a few nights then I lengthen by 30 minutes on the alarm. 

Our dogs are crated whenever we leave home, sleep, or cannot supervise. 

I do use the crate during the day even for our adult dogs when I cannot supervise. You will get used to the crying, and some of them just need to cry it out...just like kids. Eventually, most dogs learn that this is just a fact of life and get over it. Ihave plastic crates. And if I know that I will be crating the dog (maybe I'm leaving the house or can't supervise) while they're out at potty I will bait the back wall of the crate with a swipe of peanut better, just a little fun surprise to make it more interesting. But I don't go out of my way to make crates fun. They are just a fact of life.

You are doing fine. Some cry, some don't. They will get over it. Use the crate when you need to.


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## BlueDaisy (Feb 3, 2010)

OK. I'm going to try putting him in his crate whenever I need to get something done, like laundry or computer work or when I leave the house for any reason (I have not yet left the house since we got him last Friday.) I'm assuming that I should do this until I can trust him to roam around the house without having an accident without me watching him continuously, right? When I'm comfortable he's potty trained, I no longer have to use the crate during the day ... right?

So, it's OK to let him cry it out? This is probably going to be a stupid question but ... can he hurt himself by crying/screaming/howling so loud and so long? He's not wearing a collar inside the house so I'm not worried about strangulation but ... I don't know ... I worry about him having a heart attack or bursting a blood vessel or something, just from the sheer force and duration of his screaming!


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## delmet (Feb 9, 2010)

I had the crate right next to me in the same room for the first month or so. I see little reason to put the crate somewhere else, I am not sure what that would accomplish. The puppy has enough stress as is. When the puppy got used to the circumstances, I moved him to the living room, and that is where he sleeps now. And he never complained about the change either. 

As far as the daytime hours are concerned, try to have him out as much as you can, especially if you are able to take him out so often. He might have more accidents, but either way, he is going to be housebroken.And then crate him when he is sleeping. You can have him sleep first, and then crate them. That way they are too tired to object. And they get used to being in the crate, and you get what you want. Some crate is better than no crate. Especially at night, it is a must. Also I realized that my puppy likes open crates more than closed ones. It has a 360 view, and feels like he is more of a part of things, I think. But every puppy is different.


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## spotted nikes (Feb 7, 2008)

Feed him in the crate.

Can you block off a laundry rm/kitchen/bathroom and put crate in there and leave the door open, when you can't watch him? Leave some toys and maybe a bully stick.
At night, I'd put the crate in your daughter's rm, beside the bed, but tell DD she doesn't need to sleep on the floor.


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## BlueDaisy (Feb 3, 2010)

delmet said:


> As far as the daytime hours are concerned, try to have him out as much as you can, especially if you are able to take him out so often. He might have more accidents, but either way, he is going to be housebroken.And then crate him when he is sleeping. You can have him sleep first, and then crate them. That way they are too tired to object. And they get used to being in the crate, and you get what you want. Some crate is better than no crate. Especially at night, it is a must. Also I realized that my puppy likes open crates more than closed ones. It has a 360 view, and feels like he is more of a part of things, I think. But every puppy is different.


I have tried moving him into the crate after he falls asleep on the couch but he's a light sleeper and always wakes up and the second the door is closed and I walk away, that's it. The howling begins.

We have a metal crate so it's open on all sides so he can see everything - he can SEE me sitting right there working on the computer.


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## misty073 (Mar 31, 2009)

BlueDaisy said:


> We have a metal crate so it's open on all sides so he can see everything - he can SEE me sitting right there working on the computer.


Try covering it, we have one of those too and it made a big difference when we threw a sheet over it. I use the plastic crates now and still cover them lol.


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## delmet (Feb 9, 2010)

BlueDaisy said:


> I have tried moving him into the crate after he falls asleep on the couch but he's a light sleeper and always wakes up and the second the door is closed and I walk away, that's it. The howling begins.
> 
> We have a metal crate so it's open on all sides so he can see everything - he can SEE me sitting right there working on the computer.


Well, in that case you have 2 options. First one is what is going on now. The second one is to have him play to death (on or off leash while you are attending him), then putting him on leash when he is tired. That way he will always be by you, and won't be able to wonder off. He should never be able to wonder off. This way, you can have your sanity while he is being slowly crate trained, and house broken at the same time. I find crates a must only at night. In the morning vigilance and enzyme breaking sprays can do the work of a crate. Always take him out after naps and food and then every so often. Before you take him out have him sit in front of the door for a sec. Train you dog. The mental stimulation is exhausting. And a exhausted dog is much more managable than one that is finding their own entertainment.


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

When I start crate training, I put a really tired dog in the crate. After a walk and a romp. I cheat. I stuff the kong with human grade meat and cheese, then I freeze it so it lasts. Then I put the critter in the crate and the critter stays there til it's quiet. No matter what. My new dogs live in their crates for a week or two, coming out for exercise, walks, and a little one on one time. I reward the dog every single time it goes in the crate. I keep the dog tired by exercising. I have a crate in the living room and a crate in the bedroom.

I had one break off a canine tooth. That was a bummer, but the situation was dire enough that it was worth it. The dog was very dog aggressive and had nowhere to go except down or in a crate. Learning to be crated allowed me to keep her and resolve her dog issues.

I have multiple dogs and rotating fosters, so much of my approach is formed by necessity. Maybe parts of it can be useful to you. Because I take my dogs everywhere and compete with them, it is critical that they behave in crates.


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## doxiemommy (Dec 18, 2009)

It seems that you have found a solution for night time....have the crate in your daughter's room. We keep Harper's crate in our room at night. Dogs are pack animals and don't really like being separated from the pack.
Try crating during the day just for short periods at a time and then building it up. You can put a treat you know your pup likes in the crate, lure him in and shut the door for one minute. Then let him out. But, it's important to wait for a lull in the whining, however brief, before you let him out. If you let him out when he's whining he'll think that if he whines, he gets out. And, give another treat.
Then, a bit later try it again. Just short periods, and treat each time. Then, 10 minutes, then 1/2 hour, etc. Also, try putting a piece of clothing with your scent in the crate, to comfort him. 
If Kongs don't appeal to him try something else. Kongs come in a variety of shapes, and there are some other brands similar to Kongs. Maybe a different shape, with different treats, etc. AND, you could have a different group of toys that he ONLY gets when he is crated. Then when he is out of the crate you put them away, and it's back to the regular toys. That way, he has something kind of new and different to play with.
We don't actually crate during the day unless we need to do something and can't keep our eyes on Harper. But, it's good to know it's there and he's trained to go in and stay. He will even occasionally choose his crate to nap in!


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## BlueDaisy (Feb 3, 2010)

Thank you for all these suggestions! I so appreciate the help!

Can someone assure me that he won't have a heart attack or something by howling/crying so intensely? I have this fear that I'll go grocery shopping or something and come home to find something awful has happened to him in his crate.


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## aphioni (Nov 11, 2008)

i can only imagine how tough this must be for you- sorry you are going thru it. funny- when my son was a baby i let my SON cry it out so he would sleep in his crib, but i think i would die a little on the inside hearing my *dog *cry in his crate! lol

i need therapy....


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## trainingjunkie (Feb 10, 2010)

Your pup will not have a heart attack. Really!


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## Finkie_Mom (Mar 2, 2010)

My dog hasn't injured herself yet, and she STILL sounds like she's dying in there, no matter how tired she is, what treats I put in there, Kong or no Kong, etc... And I feed her in there, too. Or, rather, I put her food and water in there and she doesn't eat 

Use the advice everyone has given above, and keep working! It will get better!


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## briteday (Feb 10, 2007)

I have crated many dogs, my own and zillions of fosters. Many of them have howled for HOURS on end...and not one has died yet.


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## BlueDaisy (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm re-reading my posts and I'm sounding like some paranoid freak of nature. 

Sorry! First time puppy owner jitters, I guess. I'll try all of your suggestions and hope for the best!

And probably invest in some earplugs.


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## MarcusDolby (Feb 3, 2010)

Actually, ear plugs are helpful. Some people do that.

Also, I'd try associating the crate with fun time. Use treats and praise her when she's in there. Covering it helps too, as others have mentioned. 

Try getting her used to very small time periods in the crate. Put her in and then give her a treat. Take her out. She wasn't in but for a second, but it tells her that it's not forever and she gets a treat. Gradually increase the time. Have patience, it'll work itself out. The last two months of my life have been difficult, but now our 4.5 month old is VERY different from how she was at 2 months!


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## BlueDaisy (Feb 3, 2010)

MarcusDolby said:


> Also, I'd try associating the crate with fun time. Use treats and praise her when she's in there. Covering it helps too, as others have mentioned.
> 
> Try getting her used to very small time periods in the crate. Put her in and then give her a treat. Take her out. She wasn't in but for a second, but it tells her that it's not forever and she gets a treat. Gradually increase the time. Have patience, it'll work itself out. The last two months of my life have been difficult, but now our 4.5 month old is VERY different from how she was at 2 months!


I did this today. He didn't howl _every_ second he was in there so that's a little bit of an improvement! *keeping my fingers crossed*


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