# New puppy still has awkward wobbly puppy walk at week 9.



## Jtuoni13

Hi, I just got a French Bulldog puppy from a reputable breeder. He was the runt of the litter so it is to be expected he is a little behind in his development. He is by far the smallest puppy in the litter.

My main concern comes from the breeder yesterday letting me know I am welcome to select a different puppy because she is mildly worried about my little guys walk. He walks like he is drunk, crosses his legs and falls a fair amount but gets right back up and keeps walking. It appear his legs are longer than a normal Frenchie and he is still growing into them. I have included a few videos to give everyone a sense of what his walk looks like. 

Is there anyone else who has experienced a puppy, especially a runt taking a little extra time to learn to walk and run. She has had the vet check him out and said everything was normal and was told he will eventually get the hang of it. I would like a second opinion to be reassured that this is not a internal issue or something I will have to be worried about long term (future disabilities and vet bills).

Any and all help is welcome as I just want to make sure I will not have problems down the road and do not mind being extra patient with his development as long as I know it is only temporary.

I have ruled out bow legged and Wobblers syndrome but could be wrong. He is currently 9 weeks and I take him home in a week. The breeder said 4 weeks ago he could barely even walk and had to do a little physical thearpy to bring his front legs in from going way out to going straight under his body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ry86Q8nScU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iXnTlPnQvE&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFJGlCjL5H8&feature=youtu.be

also here is a photo of him sitting with his legs out instead of directly under him. http://imgur.com/pBYaqOa


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## Kayota

You should take him to the vet. I'm amazed the breeder didn't.


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## packetsmom

The pup is only 9 weeks old, so I don't think there is anything to be worried about yet. Give him a little time.  To me, he just looks like a very tiny little guy who is still getting used to getting his legs working for him.



Kayota said:


> You should take him to the vet. I'm amazed the breeder didn't.


The OP said the vet checked him out and said everything is fine. The pup is a runt, so I wouldn't be too surprised that he takes longer than his littermates to get the mechanics down.


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## Jtuoni13

Thanks for the quick responses. I am planning on getting my own vet to check him out before I finalize the sale. The breeder said he is a normal pup. The bigger ones pick on him when in the playpen. He watches tv, is very passive and polite about food. He even picks on the klef lip puppy from another little since this is the only puppy smaller than him. So really besides the goofy little walk and timidness from being the little guy he seems completely normal.


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## Kayota

I thought I read the post thoroughly but I guess not.. Sorry!


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## Crantastic

Hm, so he's still at the breeder's house? And the breeder has said that you could take a different puppy instead?

Honestly, in your place I would probably take the breeder up on the offer of a different puppy, just in case. If you haven't taken this little guy home yet, you haven't had time to really bond with him. Frenchies are so prone to health issues in the first place that I'd want to go with the healthiest, most problem-free pup I could find.

If you're set on this guy, though, wait a week (or even longer if you can), and also get your own vet to give a second opinion, like you're planning to. Who knows, there may be a big difference between weeks nine and 10.


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## HollowHeaven

Ehhhhhh that makes me nervous.
Runt or not, pup or not, that's some pretty intense wobbling


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## Jtuoni13

I have been in touch with the breeder for 3 weeks now. I have been back to visit since leaving my deposit and have spent I'd say 10-15 hours with him. He has the exact personality I was looking for when I first began looking for a pup.

Are there any vets on here who could take a look at the video and sitting stance.

So say I take him to my own vet how much can they really tell?
If they give me the answer of he seems normal just needs a little extra time learning to walk. Do I have to just assume that a professional opinion is probably 90% accurate and hope for the best.

Now I don't care if my pup isn't the fastest or most coordinated I just want to make sure this is something that will likely work itself out and not cause me a lifetime of vet visits.


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## Crantastic

> Are there any vets on here who could take a look at the video and sitting stance.
> 
> So say I take him to my own vet how much can they really tell?


Much more than the vets here at DF, who can't observe the puppy in person and actually put their hands on him.

If you're genuinely worried about a lifetime of vet visits, it's usually not the best idea to get a runt with problems in the first place, especially one of a breed that's not the healthiest breed around anyway. 

I don't mean to discourage you! I understand falling in love with a specific puppy. If I were in your position and REALLY wanted that pup, I'd probably ask the breeder to hold it for a few more weeks, and get it seen by my vet then.


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## Jtuoni13

Crantastic said:


> Much more than the vets here at DF, who can't observe the puppy in person and actually put their hands on him.
> 
> If you're genuinely worried about a lifetime of vet visits, it's usually not the best idea to get a runt with problems in the first place, especially one of a breed that's not the healthiest breed around anyway.
> 
> I don't mean to discourage you! I understand falling in love with a specific puppy. If I were in your position and REALLY wanted that pup, I'd probably ask the breeder to hold it for a few more weeks, and get it seen by my vet then.



I was planning on picking it up at week 10. If I were to get another pup I would ask to wait for the next litter as I did not care for the personality of remaining guys esp when everytime I have gone the random people who have passed by on the way to the breeders art gallery has always commented on my little guy making me want him even more.

So far from everyones response I am at about the same position as I was when I came here. For now it seems like it is what it is. 

I guess I was mostly looking for another dog owner and or vet who has seen this in a runt/or normal puppy where all they needed was a few extra weeks to figure things out. Compared to the other frechie puppies his legs are def longer and according to the breeder he couldn't quite walk until week 4 which is behind schedule from what I understand. So it appears hes getting there just at his own pace which makes me love him even more. I walked around with him yesterday and while I had his attention to walk in my direction he didn't seem to have any limitations besides a few wipe outs.

Again much thanks to anyone who has taken the time to look at the videos.


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## Flaming

taking the opposite side here
Manna was a runt as well and wobbled like that (sometimes worse) till ~15 weeks but the vet cleared her from day 1 and still clears her (x-rays) long after she found her feet.

Though
Runts usually have more health issues and that breed is more prone to issues. I don't recommend getting a runt or a breed prone to serious issues unless you are confident that you will have enough for all the expensive medical bills and be emotionally stable enough for a possible shorter life.


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## Jtuoni13

Flaming said:


> taking the opposite side here
> Manna was a runt as well and wobbled like that (sometimes worse) till ~15 weeks but the vet cleared her from day 1 and still clears her (x-rays) long after she found her feet.
> 
> Though
> Runts usually have more health issues and that breed is more prone to issues. I don't recommend getting a runt or a breed prone to serious issues unless you are confident that you will have enough for all the expensive medical bills and be emotionally stable enough for a possible shorter life.


Thank you Flaming for your insight. 

I've done a decent amount of research and a healthy runt has just as much of a chance to live a long and healthy life as the rest of the little depending on the reason it is a runt. The dog uterus is in a Y shape and 1 puppy had 1 side all to himself as the rest were on the other side with my guy at the bottom. I have read that if this is the case it will likely lead a healthy life and that it just needs some time to catch up. 

I currently live with a 3 year old boxer who was the runt of his litter and he ended up being the biggest and is amazing in every other way. Best personality on a dog I have come across....besides his obsession with finding new ways into the garbage no matter what we do.

I went the route of paying more for a Frenchie to avoid future health issues as this comes from a great breeder with a line of healthy frenchies. We originally agreed on $4,000. The others in the litter are 5.000-8,000. I chose to do this over paying 2,000 from a lesser breeder esp since a friend of mine paid 1800 and has had a decent amount of genetic issues. With this one I was able to see past generations as well as the mom and dad. Does anyone think it is out of the question to ask for a 1,000 dollar or more discount to compensate any vet visits I may have to make or is it not typical to negotiate with the breeder (i have been present when others have tried to pick my guy first however). My plan is to get pet insurance which is $40 a month which I am glad to do to stay away from having to drop 5,000 if any issues arise and being stuck in a bad spot.


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## Crantastic

What health testing did the breeder do on the parents? Does the breeder show the dogs? Also, what is the contract like? How long is the health guarantee, and does it cover a variety of issues? If you ran into big problems, would you be compensated and get to keep the puppy, or would you have to return it for a replacement or refund? (Contracts vary a lot, which is why I'm asking.)

It does sound good of the breeder to discount the price for you. If you think they would be amenable to knocking a bit more off the price, it's worth asking!


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## Jtuoni13

I was hanging out with my pup and a few others and the breeders husband and he said they showed one of the other mothers recently and she won and they retired her 1-0 as the aren't into the whole politics and antics of showing which I get. The whole showing scene is a little absurd to me. Also went on to say they are dedicated to breeding frenchies with longer leaner bodies with tails that can wag and not an extension of the spine.


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## Crantastic

All dog tails are an extension of the spine. Do you just mean a longer tail? Frenchies aren't a docked breed or anything.


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## Jtuoni13

The dog cones with a 1 year genetic health guarantee which would offer a refund and take the dog back which would be tough to do. Also if I am unable to care for the dog I would have to offer the dog back to the breeder first . Besides that I don't believe there is anything out of the normal besides being required to use their brand name on the dogs registration.


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## Jtuoni13

It was my understanding that frenchies tails are fused to their spine and could not do anything with it. These puppies are able to raise and move their tail around a bit which is also not typical for a frenchie.


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## Crantastic

Hm, one-year guarantees are considered pretty useless because most major issues show up after the dog is an adult. Most good breeders offer a two-year or preferably a three-year guarantee (some even longer). I'm also not fond of contracts that insist you return the dog to get any compensation, because who wants to return a dog they have bonded with? 

If you are set on this pup, I agree that pet insurance is a very good idea. If the breeder is breeding for a look they like, they may be subject to kennel blindness, or be unknowingly breeding structural issues into the dogs. Even something as simple as trying to change leg length or tail length on a short-bodied dog can result in all kinds of other changes, some of which might not be good. I'm not saying that the Frenchie show standard is the be all and end all; the breed has a lot of issues caused by its structure. Breeders just have to be very careful when they mess with structure. It's a good idea to cover your bases and make sure you're ready for possible high vet bills.


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## Jtuoni13

http://www.foreveryoungfrenchbulldogs.com/ this is the link to the vetenarian that my breeder works with and got her like from. On the surface seems very legitimate.


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## Crantastic

That is the vet's site, not your breeder's? The one big red flag I see is that she is breeding "rare" colors of Frenchies and selling them at much higher prices. Those colors are only uncommon (among good breeders) because they're disqualified by the standard; there is nothing truly special or "rare" about them. That's a money-making gimmick and nothing else. Color alone is not a reason to tack several _thousand_ extra dollars onto the price of a pet puppy. That puppy will never be bred or shown, because it's a pet; its color is meaningless.

Here is another page about fad colors. They do sometimes crop up in litters from good breeders, but they will always be sold on a pet contract (so never used for breeding), and for the same, or LOWER, price as acceptable colors.


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## Laurelin

Personally, I would not take that pup.


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## Shell

Up to $8000 for a "special" color ? That alone would make me run for the hills. 

Interesting that giving Lyme or Lepto vaccine voids all guarantees. I know there are some risks for small breeds with the Lepto vaccine, but I'd be interested in the risks behind the Lyme vaccine.


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## Jtuoni13

Crantastic said:


> That is the vet's site, not your breeder's? The one big red flag I see is that she is breeding "rare" colors of Frenchies and selling them at much higher prices. Those colors are only uncommon (among good breeders) because they're disqualified by the standard; there is nothing truly special or "rare" about them. That's a money-making gimmick and nothing else. Color alone is not a reason to tack several _thousand_ extra dollars onto the price of a pet puppy. That puppy will never be bred or shown, because it's a pet; its color is meaningless.


That is the vets site who my breeder works under. That is where my breeder got her line from and is also the VET that checked my guy out as well as my breeders local vet that she uses for her own dogs. She currently has 4 Frenchies of her own, one who is the mother to mine. The price of the other regular colored Frenchies were 5,000 and one that was also blue like mine was 6,000 and a blue faced fawn asking price of 8,000 and I guess the vet gets her pick of the litter under what ever agreement they have. What ever puppies my breeder is unable to sell after a certain time period the vet takes because she has a waiting list of people who want a puppy from her "brand name". Yes I should always be skeptical when hearing stuff like this but the breeder was not salesy at all. My uncle first checked her out just because he was interested in the breed and she spent quite a lot of time just educating him on the breed when he told her up front he just bought 2 dogs and was not looking to buy one. Also I told her I was just there to learn about the Breed as i was originally intending to get a frenchie for 2-2500 from puppy find but would rather pay the premium to buy local from a breeder whos operation I had seen. Overall you can tell she is just very passionate about animals and the breed as she owns an art gallery and never has a hesitation to talk with a customer who is there simply to buy art and not one of her pups.

All and all I should just get my own 3rd party to take a look and give me their opinion. I was hoping to do that here but I understand there are tests in person they need to run.


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## Crantastic

Yeah, I'm always wary of color breeders in general, but when they use color alone as an excuse to charge up to $4000 more for a blue pup than a "standard" (ACCEPTED) color... that's a bad sign.

Also, no mention of health testing that I can see. This breeder being a vet is definitely good, but vets alone can't screen for all of the genetic and structural issues in a breed; specialists are required. Also, according to the contract, "The puppy will be guaranteed for one year against any incurable and debilitating genetic disorder requiring the dog to be euthanized." That's... well, near-useless, really. First of all, it only covers the pup while it's young, while most issues develop later. Secondly, it doesn't cover _anything_ unless the dog has to be euthed. Also, "The seller will pay NO veterinary expenses. No reimbursements of any money for veterinary bills incurred will be provided by seller. These are soley the responsibility of the buyer."

Ugh, and "This guarantee DOES NOT cover the following, which are common conditions for the bulldog breed and highly unpredictable: treatment for internal or external parasites or bacteria, cherry eye, loose hips, loose knees, skin allergies, elongated soft palates, and small or collapsed (stenotic) nostrils, bad or uneven bites, demodex, mange, inguinal or umbilical hernias, coccidia, kennel cough, giarrdia, or thyroid dysfunction." So uh... what DO they cover? Many of these things could be prevented with good breeding and should not be the buyer's problem.


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## Shell

Crantastic said:


> So uh... what DO they cover? Many of these things could be prevented with good breeding and should not be the buyer's problem.


Spontaneous combustion? 

I'm far from experienced in buying from breeders, but even I see red flags all over the place. If you're going to get a nearly worthless guarantee and get a dog from basically unknown health background, then get a rescue Frenchie for $200-500.


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## sassafras

Laurelin said:


> Personally, I would not take that pup.


Me, either.


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## gingerkid

Looks and sounds a lot like how Lisa J. Edwards describes her dog Boo in her book "A Dog Named Boo". Boo was diagnosed with cerebellar hypoplasia. Boo was also a runt, had issues walking, seemed very uncoordinated and was slow to learn basic commands.

Its your decision, but I don't think I would take that pup either (regardless of the cause), especially if the cost of future medical bills is a big concern.


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## Crantastic

Jtuoni13 said:


> Also I told her I was just there to learn about the Breed as i was originally intending to get a frenchie for 2-2500 from puppy find but would rather pay the premium to buy local from a breeder whos operation I had seen.


PuppyFind is an absolutely terrible place to find a puppy, so I'm glad you didn't go with someone from there! However, even if someone has a nice clean home and well-loved and happy dogs and is a good person, that doesn't make them a good _breeder_. It's always a good idea to start with the breed club for your country and find out what to look for in a good breeder. I prefer breeders who show in conformation, for a variety of reasons (chief among them is that they have outside experts ensuring that their dogs are functional), but if they don't show, that's not a deal-breaker to me as long as they health test. That does not mean simply having their dogs checked out by a vet, but screened by specialists for any of the major issues in the breed. 

Despite what that vet says on her kennel page, Frenchies are not a terribly healthy breed. She claims that she has "not had any major health concerns to date with [her] Frenchies," but you say that your breeder uses the same lines and has your wobbly pup plus a pup with a cleft palate at this very moment. That would concern me.

http://frenchbulldogclub.org/
http://frenchbulldogclub.org/about-...ng-frenchies/frenchie-health-and-conformation


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## packetsmom

I'm a sucker for runts, having been one myself. That being said...it sounds like there are concerns with this breeder and that, more than the runt issue, might make me back away slowly.


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## gingerkid

packetsmom said:


> I'm a sucker for runts, having been one myself. That being said...it sounds like there are concerns with this breeder and that, more than the runt issue, might make me back away slowly.


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## Emmett

I have a Frenchie who was, coincidentally, the runt of his litter. At one point in time I was kinda, sorta dabbling in Frenchie conformation. I'm saying this simply because I love the breed and really want people to have positive experiences with their Frenchie. That breeder is *anything* but reputable. 

$8000 even for a show quality puppy from proven lines would be borderline ridiculous. The breeder is also specifically breeding for colors that are disqualifications which is a HUGE flag that she is up to no good. You mentioned that there is another puppy from another litter there with a cleft lip. Which means she has at least two litters on the ground at once, which is concerning. It also means both those litters possibly have some genetic issues going on, which is possibly indicative of poor breeding practices.

Monty was $1800 and from a reputable breeder, his price for a "pet quality" pup was and is pretty fair. I wouldn't balk at anything up to $2500 for "pet quality" with health testing. For health, he has _some_ allergies and did have a slipped disk in his neck when he was 7...but this happened when he was JUMPING and twisting in the air to catch a frisbee on the fly!!! He has been exceptionally healthy for a Frenchie. In contrast, a friend fell in love with Monty and wanted on just like him. She listened to a _breeder_ just like the one you're dealing with and paid $5000 for a _rare_ blue Frenchie. Six years later I'd guess she's had $15000 worth of veterinary bills and it is only getting worse as he ages. Her original reasoning was she would pay _more_ up front and get a better quality pup. The truth is most expensive isn't always best.


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## HollowHeaven

OP, if I were you, I would not take this pup or any other from this breeder. She sounds like a glorified BYB. I know no good breeder that would breed for color or charge more for pups of a certain color. It has no value as far as showing or pet quality.

She should be health testing the crap out of her dogs before they're bred and offering a several year health guarantee on the pups.

I would suggest waking away from this breeder and looking for a better one. It will be worth it in the long run to support a good, responsible breeder and get a pup that has a higher chance of being healthy.


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## ireth0

Emmett said:


> I have a Frenchie who was, coincidentally, the runt of his litter. At one point in time I was kinda, sorta dabbling in Frenchie conformation. I'm saying this simply because I love the breed and really want people to have positive experiences with their Frenchie. That breeder is *anything* but reputable.
> 
> *$8000 even for a show quality puppy from proven lines would be borderline ridiculous*. The breeder is also specifically breeding for colors that are disqualifications which is a HUGE flag that she is up to no good. You mentioned that there is another puppy from another litter there with a cleft lip. Which means she has at least two litters on the ground at once, which is concerning. It also means both those litters possibly have some genetic issues going on, which is possibly indicative of poor breeding practices.
> 
> Monty was $1800 and from a reputable breeder, his price for a "pet quality" pup was and is pretty fair. I wouldn't balk at anything up to $2500 for "pet quality" with health testing. For health, he has _some_ allergies and did have a slipped disk in his neck when he was 7...but this happened when he was JUMPING and twisting in the air to catch a frisbee on the fly!!! He has been exceptionally healthy for a Frenchie. In contrast, a friend fell in love with Monty and wanted on just like him. She listened to a _breeder_ just like the one you're dealing with and paid $5000 for a _rare_ blue Frenchie. Six years later I'd guess she's had $15000 worth of veterinary bills and it is only getting worse as he ages. Her original reasoning was she would pay _more_ up front and get a better quality pup. The truth is most expensive isn't always best.


I was waiting for someone to confirm I wasn't crazy for thinking this. I can't imagine considering paying $8000 for ANY dog that was just going to be a pet.


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## Shell

ireth0 said:


> I was waiting for someone to confirm I wasn't crazy for thinking this. I can't imagine considering paying $8000 for ANY dog that was just going to be a pet.


I know of winning racehorses that have sold for less.


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## Fade

ireth0 said:


> I was waiting for someone to confirm I wasn't crazy for thinking this. I can't imagine considering paying $8000 for ANY dog that was just going to be a pet.


I agree with you. Some times people hide behind high prices. And fancy words.


and to OP dont buy that pup. For that price the puppy should have had a zillion tests done by the breeder to figure it out herself. For real. Walk away.


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## Kyndall54

Shell said:


> I know of winning racehorses that have sold for less.


So true! A lot of times thoroughbreds off the track are pretty dirt cheap, sometimes even if they've won some small races.


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## Flaming

I love runts but I'm not liking how this breeder sounds. I would back away


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## Kyllobernese

I know you are probably going to do what you are going to do but to me for $8000.00 I would expect a show quality dog or at least not a runt that has problems walking. Most runts even though they are small, they should be as healthy as the rest of the litter, just start out smaller and sometimes catch up and end up the biggest.


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## Crantastic

The OP is not buying from that linked breeder, but from that breeder's protege. Same lines, though, so I'd expect similar issues.

The OP is paying $4000 for the runt puppy, which is still awfully high. The others in the litter are $5000-$8000, which I agree is completely ridiculous for a pet-quality puppy. These breeders are just raking in the dough... they don't even have show costs or expensive health testing costs to take out of that.

OP, to give you an idea of prices, most of the papillon breeders I know in Maritime Canada charge $1500 for a pet puppy -- a couple of them include the spay or neuter in that price. Both parents are conformation champions and are health tested, and the pups have three-year health guarantees. My Alaskan Klee Kai cost $1600 on a pet contract (AKK tend to cost around $1900-$2500 on the west coast), and both of his parents were champions as well, and were tested for the main health issue in the breed. I think he has a three-year health guarantee, but it might be two years. Neither breeder charges more for certain colors (all-white AKK are actually cheaper because they can't be shown). Both of these breeds have small litters, just like Frenchies. I would expect a pet Frenchie from a good show breeder to cost $2500ish (maybe a little more) because of the added c-section costs and the additional health testing, but $4k is really pushing it. $8k is just insane. Most good breeders charge a lot for puppies because of the costs involved in properly breeding (here is a chart for boxers, and that doesn't even include show costs). If your breeder is not spending money on showing or health testing, why are they asking upwards of $4k for each puppy? Something to think about.


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## Aska

I know a Pug with that problem. He's 2 now and has loose knees, and he walks like this because his spine is... awful. It's deformed. I saw his x- rays and it was heart breaking.


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## paribird

Also, the breeder says she has had the vet check him out - is it the vet whose website that is? Given all the other red flags on the site ($8000 for a pup?! crazy), I would be wary about that. If you really cannot be dissuaded from that pup, get an opinion from a vet that is no way affiliated with the breeder. Like Aska, I've only seen one pup with a walk that bad and his spine was in terrible shape. I can't imagine the pain the poor guy was in and the medical bills that must have stacked up very quickly. :/


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## Jtuoni13

Much thanks to all he insight . I fear I may have misrepresented the breeder after seeing some of the things said here. I will admit I felt the same way when my uncle first introduced us and felt differently after leaving. No one said it but she is not a puppy mill and doesn't breed just rare colors. The breeder grew up on a ranch and has a genuine love for animals. Has a parrot and chickens as well. 

No one has said what makes a good breeder . They just make a quick assumption that this one was a bad one. I guess with a designer dog there's bound to be criticism. What are some people's examples of a breeder they though was worth their trust.

From this discussion I think my next step would be to get a outside 3rd opinion. MRI and X-ray before I do anything else.


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## Crantastic

Here's what I, personally, look for in a good breeder:

-Someone who either shows their dogs in conformation shows, or proves them through titling in some kind of sport, or proves them through work (for example, herding for Border Collies, mushing for Siberians).

-Someone who has the recommended important health tests done for the breed. For many breeds, this can include hips or eyes. This screening is done by a specialist. Results can be seen in the OFA and CERF databases. Different breeds will have different tests (for example, Poodles should be screened for Von Willebrand disease).

-Someone who does not breed unacceptable colors, or charge more money for certain colors (at least for pet dogs). Someone who does not charge more for different genders (at least for pet dogs).

-Someone whose contract provides at LEAST a two-year health guarantee against major issues (communicable diseases don't count because those can be picked up anywhere), and preferably does not require the dog to DIE or be returned to the breeder for compensation. In addition, the contract should guarantee against the dog arriving with any diseases, and I should be compensated for vet bills if it does.

-Someone who does not breed too often (I like to see just a few litters a year at most; most of the breeders I know just do one or maybe two), and who does not keep using the same male over and over, or breeding the same pair of dogs over and over.

There may be more that I'm not thinking of now, but those are the big ones.

OP, I know you think the breeder is a nice person, and she probably is! A lot of bad breeders are good PEOPLE. They treat their dogs well, keep them in their homes, and truly love them. That doesn't mean that they're breeding responsibly. I don't think you've misrepresented her at all. The fact that she doesn't health test and that she charges $4000-$8000 for a pet-quality puppy of a "rare" (unaccepted) color is honestly enough for us to know that she's not reputable. You could get a healthy, gorgeous, lovely Frenchie from a good breeder for less money than that.


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## Effisia

Everything Crantastic said. I read it twice because it was so awesome. 

Those prices are seriously unreasonable for a pet pup. Even a breed that requires c-section births. Health testing NEEDS to be a deal breaker. Real health testing by specialists like others have said. We ran into a few Newf breeders who were breeding for "rare" colors and that was another deal breaker for us (even if they are super adorable). If a breeder is breeding any of her litters (not necessarily ALL of them but ANY litter) for something that isn't in the standard or accepted, you have to wonder what other things they might be overlooking. Off colors happen, but I personally think trying for them shows a breeder who isn't as concerned about strengthening the breed.


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## Crantastic

Exactly, and, as mentioned, sometimes reputable show breeders get a puppy of an undesirable, unshowable color in their litters. What do they do? They make sure it's sold on a pet contract and spayed or neutered so that it won't be used for breeding. They sell it either for the same price as any other pet puppy from their litters, or sometimes cheaper. They don't mark the price up by $4000 because it's a "rare" color.


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## HollowHeaven

French Bulldogs are not designer dogs. They are a breed that has been around since the 1800's. 

A good breeder is someone who does not breed for color. A good breeder does not charge more for male or female or for what color they are. A good breeder fully health tests their dogs before breeding (eyes, hearts, patellas, hips, elbows, breed specific diseases/disorders) and shows their dogs in some way. Good breeders title their dogs before breeding and will only sell pups under contract. This person does not do this.

Many backyard breeders are decent people and do care about their dogs, but they are either ignorant or too lazy (or can't afford, which is just as bad) to do it properly. Being a nice person does not make someone a good breeder. In my honest opinion, you're about to put A L O T of money into the hands of someone who doesn't know/doesn't care about what she's doing, and you're about to get a possibly sick puppy. My advice is that you walk way from this BYB and find someone responsible. You will pay less money for a sound dog from a responsible breeder.


----------



## Jtuoni13

I haven't had time to read every recent post yet but I didn't say she doesn't do health testing . As far as in aware she does. The dogs is also AKC certified which I fully don't understand. 

I'd imagine she did 2 litters at once because you wouldn't believe how many people who are just there for art in the summer come real close to getting a dog. She does no advertising for the puppies. I don't believe she reuses te same dog. They have shown and won but its not their thing according to the husband in ma casual conversation after I had already committed to the dog and wasn't trying to sell me on anything.

Maybe the selling of rare colors is a bad trait but I'm big into business and if people are willing to pay 8,000 for a blue faced fawn that happened to come out in your litter why not .


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## Crantastic

There's a big difference between a blue pup that "happens" to come up in a litter, and in specifically breeding for that color.

The thing is, if good show breeders aren't breeding for those colors, and are making sure they're spayed or neutered when they do pop up, then it's VERY hard to find a good, healthy, conformationally sound specimen of that color to use for breeding. The pool of dogs to use for breeding is also smaller. This can result in puppies of that color not being great representatives of the breed. And they're never worth $8000.

AKC certification means very little. All it means is that both parents were purebred. The AKC is a registry, not the quality police.

It seems like nothing we say is going to dissuade you; you seem set on believing that this breeder is a good one. I think you're right to have an MRI and x-ray done before taking the pup home, and to get pet insurance. It's quite possible that any Frenchie from a less-than-reputable breeder will end up costing you a lot of money in vet bills. Good luck.


----------



## Flaming

Kyllobernese said:


> I know you are probably going to do what you are going to do but to me for $8000.00 I would expect a show quality dog or at least not a runt that has problems walking. Most runts even though they are small, they should be as healthy as the rest of the litter, just start out smaller and sometimes catch up and end up the biggest.


Is what is happening with Manna, bugger she's a good head taller than her litter mates now. 



Aska said:


> I know a Pug with that problem. He's 2 now and has loose knees, and he walks like this because his spine is... awful. It's deformed. I saw his x- rays and it was heart breaking.



X-rays are necessary, get them done by a second breeder



Crantastic said:


> Exactly, and, as mentioned, sometimes reputable show breeders get a puppy of an undesirable, unshowable color in their litters. What do they do? They make sure it's sold on a pet contract and spayed or neutered so that it won't be used for breeding. They sell it either for the same price as any other pet puppy from their litters, or sometimes cheaper. They don't mark the price up by $4000 because it's a "rare" color.





HollowHeaven said:


> French Bulldogs are not designer dogs. They are a breed that has been around since the 1800's.
> 
> A good breeder is someone who does not breed for color. A good breeder does not charge more for male or female or for what color they are. A good breeder fully health tests their dogs before breeding (eyes, hearts, patellas, hips, elbows, breed specific diseases/disorders) and shows their dogs in some way. Good breeders title their dogs before breeding and will only sell pups under contract. This person does not do this.
> 
> Many backyard breeders are decent people and do care about their dogs, but they are either ignorant or too lazy (or can't afford, which is just as bad) to do it properly. Being a nice person does not make someone a good breeder. In my honest opinion, you're about to put A L O T of money into the hands of someone who doesn't know/doesn't care about what she's doing, and you're about to get a possibly sick puppy. My advice is that you walk way from this BYB and find someone responsible. You will pay less money for a sound dog from a responsible breeder.





Jtuoni13 said:


> I haven't had time to read every recent post yet but I didn't say she doesn't do health testing . As far as in aware she does. The dogs is also AKC certified which I fully don't understand.
> 
> I'd imagine she did 2 litters at once because you wouldn't believe how many people who are just there for art in the summer come real close to getting a dog. She does no advertising for the puppies. I don't believe she reuses te same dog. They have shown and won but its not their thing according to the husband in ma casual conversation after I had already committed to the dog and wasn't trying to sell me on anything.
> 
> Maybe the selling of rare colors is a bad trait but I'm big into business and if people are willing to pay 8,000 for a blue faced fawn that happened to come out in your litter why not .


Rare colours are often a sign of double recessive genes in many breeds, I'm not sure about this breed but many other breeds have massive health problems when bred for rare or differing colours. 

Also, that's a lot of money for any dog... I've seen champion dogs go for much less.


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## ireth0

On top of what everyone else has said, and this is just personal opinion, but I wouldn't want to do business with someone I knew was overcharging me by several thousand dollars because they thought I didn't know any better and they could get away with it.

Again, that's just me, but that doesn't seem ethical in itself regardless of the breeding issues already mentioned.


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## Effisia

I think you'll find that reputable breeders will also not be in it for the money. In fact, I'd say the majority of them don't end up with any profit at all, they do it for the love of the breed and a desire to better the breed. I'd guess this is especially true for a breed that frequently requires c-sections to give birth at all. Between health checks and proper food and vet care and stud fees and caring for the mum... I dunno, I would want a breeder more interested in breeding sound dogs and leaving the breed better than someone out to make profit (a LOT in the case of $8k puppies!).


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## meggels

You need to RUN, not walk, but RUN from that breeder. 

Here are the issues:

1) No health testing. You want a breeder who does health testing on these dogs. Frenchies are not the hardiest breed by design, you do not want someone who is just putting two dogs together and not doing extensive health testing. You want them tested for eyes, hereditary cataracts, spine, trachea, cardiac, patellas. You are paying THOUSANDS for this puppy, the least the breeder could do is spend the money on health testing.
2) Breeding fad colors to make money. That is what this breeder is doing. When someone is charging based on what color the puppy is, RUN. 8k for some of those pups???? Are you kidding me??? 
3) This might hurt your feelings, but the puppy in the video, and the dogs on the website, just do not look well bred, or very close to the AKC standard. Being that these people have all sorts of DQ colors, and the dogs don't look well bred (there are very few frenchies that are both a DQ color and actually a good representation of the AKC standard...), I wouldn't be shocked if these dogs have other things in their lines (like perhaps a little chihuahua) to bring in these colors. 
4) There is no reason to be paying $4k for the puppy in that video. You are being ripped off, to put it mildly. 
5) A pet quality french bulldog from a *REPUTABLE* breeder will cost you $2-3 thousand. Not 4 thousand. You are not getting a better dog by paying that amount of money. You are being swindled. 


Please read these links:

http://frenchbulldogclub.org/no-fad-colors
http://www.bullmarketfrogs.com/2011/04/french-bulldog-breeder-warning-signs-part-one-fad-colors/
http://www.frenchbulldog.ws/bluefrenchbulldog.htm


Sorry if any of this comes off as harsh... but there is nothing that boils my blood more than people breeding poor quality frenchies in DQ colors and just making money off of this wonderful breed 

Where are you located? I would be happy to direct you to reputable breeders. I know many of them in the Northeast, some down in Virginia to SC, out in Texas, and then out in Michigan, Wisconsin and Montana. And if one of them doesn't happen to have any puppies available in the near future, I'm sure they could direct you to another reputable breeder who might.


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## Crantastic

Jtuoni13 said:


> I haven't had time to read every recent post yet but I didn't say she doesn't do health testing . As far as in aware she does.


I meant to comment on this earlier, but if you are going to pay $4000 for a dog, you should make SURE that the breeder is health testing, find out which tests they are doing, and be able to see the results.

If you are "big into business," you should know better than to pay a premium for a low-quality fad item that just happens to look cool, right? Same thing with dogs.


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## HollowHeaven

Jtuoni13 said:


> Maybe the selling of rare colors is a bad trait but I'm big into business and if people are willing to pay 8,000 for a blue faced fawn that happened to come out in your litter why not .


Breeding and showing dogs isn't a business. Not if it's done responsibly. BYBs and Millers turn it into a business. Being a responsible breeder isn't about making big bucks, it's about improving and carrying on a breed you care about. Showing/competing is part of that. Earning titles is what proves a dog is worthy of being bred. It has nothing to do with the dog's quality of being a pet but... there's no point in breeding a pet quality dog.
Just because ignorant people are willing to pay that much for a low quality dog because of color doesn't mean it's ethical for a breeder to charge it. If anything, they should charge less for a pet quality dog.

You're being swindled, Jtuoni, into paying THOUSANDS of dollars for a dog that's likely sick because someone wants to make money. Please back away from this breeder and look for a better one. I'm sure some very experienced people here would be willing to help you. It will be worth it in the long run.


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## GrinningDog

I wanted to put in my 2 cents. 

No way would I purchase a French Bulldog, knowing the breed's propensity for health problems, unless I was 100% knowledgeable and comfortable with the breeder's genetic screening of their stock. I'd want to know, first, what specific issues FBs are predisposed to; second, what tests and breeding methods are available to steer away from those issues; third, which of these tests and techniques the breeder utilizes; finally, the results of the tests in the breeding stock and how the breeder's methods have resulted in other litters of healthy pups.

I'd want a much better contract than what has been described (longer time period, inclusive of more potential problems, wouldn't require a return of pup for compensation, etc.).

I'd be extremely wary of paying so much money for a FB pup that already has problems to overcome. 

As cute as this pup is and as friendly as the breeder is, I would go elsewhere. Too many red flags here.


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## lisaj1354

> We originally agreed on $4,000. The others in the litter are 5.000-8,000. I chose to do this over paying 2,000 from a lesser breeder esp since a friend of mine paid 1800 and has had a decent amount of genetic issues.





> He even picks on the klef lip puppy from another little since this is the only puppy smaller than him.


I'm not sure that this is a great breeder....especially if they are breeding dogs with this kind of issue.

(and its a cleft lip, fyi)


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## Jtuoni13

Crantastic said:


> It seems like nothing we say is going to dissuade you; you seem set on believing that this breeder is a good one. I think you're right to have an MRI and x-ray done before taking the pup home, and to get pet insurance. It's quite possible that any Frenchie from a less-than-reputable breeder will end up costing you a lot of money in vet bills. Good luck.


I came here to be dissuaded. I wanted to hear every side there was before making the final decision. When deciding to get a dog I determined I would need 500-$1000 a year to take care of the little guy which is very doable. Which is why a $500 a year insurance policy would suite me and cover me for 90% of what I needed. I just needed to be sure I wouldn't end up with a dog that would cost 3,000 a year.

Does anyone have any idea of what the MRI and X-ray cost and the cost of the health testing. Also say those tests come back negative (good news)...(medical terms are confusing) Then where do I go from there. Sure I understand I could be over paying by about $1,500 which isnt the end of the world for the right dog for me. Like someone said before thank god I didn't end up on puppyfind. 


BTW I am in the Boston area of the person who asked where I was.


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## Kyllobernese

The big problem is that most of your health testing cannot be done on a young puppy that is why it is important that it has been done on the parents. I don't think an x-ray is that expensive but think an MRI is. A lot depends where you are as prices vary so much. I would ask your Vet about the costs.


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## HollowHeaven

Jtuoni13 said:


> I came here to be dissuaded. I wanted to hear every side there was before making the final decision. When deciding to get a dog I determined I would need 500-$1000 a year to take care of the little guy which is very doable. Which is why a $500 a year insurance policy would suite me and cover me for 90% of what I needed. I just needed to be sure I wouldn't end up with a dog that would cost 3,000 a year.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea of what the MRI and X-ray cost and the cost of the health testing. Also say those tests come back negative (good news)...(medical terms are confusing) Then where do I go from there. Sure I understand I could be over paying by about $1,500 which isnt the end of the world for the right dog for me. Like someone said before thank god I didn't end up on puppyfind.
> 
> 
> BTW I am in the Boston area of the person who asked where I was.


You cannot health test a puppy so young. Most tests can't be done until the dog is nearing a year, some can't be done until 2, some until 3, which is why a 2 year health guarantee is kinda useless. 

Just gonna slip it in there again, this is a BYB who is charging you outrageous prices for a dog that's likely unhealthy. I bet if you asked the breeder about her OFA certs (where most health testing comes from) she won't have any. 

I highly suggest you walk away from this breeder and find a good one.


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## SydTheSpaniel

I'm with everyone and think you should walk away from this breeder now. Everyone has told you the reasons why this is not a good breeder... but in the end, it is on you what you decide.. if you keep the puppy you will very likely end up with a ton of health issues. The dog will suffer and you will have supported a breeder so they can just do it again to more dogs. Of course, if you give the dog back, he'll still suffer because of the poor breeding decisions of this person.. but at least you won't have supported it to happen again. All up to you though, all we can do here is give you our experiences, knowledge, and opinions.


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## Shell

Jtuoni13 said:


> I When deciding to get a dog I determined I would need 500-$1000 a year to take care of the little guy which is very doable. Which is why a $500 a year insurance policy would suite me and cover me for 90% of what I needed. I just needed to be sure I wouldn't end up with a dog that would cost 3,000 a year.


Are you talking $500-1000 in medical bills or all expenses total? Because even basic food and minimum vet care (HW preventative, flea/tick meds, yearly checkup with rabies shot) will run about $500 per year. 

For even healthy dogs, as in, those with no genetic issues, it isn't odd to spend a few hundred per year on this and that mishaps. I've spent about $1400 in the past year on non-genetic related injuries and illness-- eye injury, urinary infection, benign tumor removal. 

If money is a concern, you'd be a lot better off putting that huge purchase price towards a more carefully bred dog and the remainder of the purchase price into both insurance and a savings account.


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## meggels

There are sooooo many good breeders in the northeast. Please run far away from this person.


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## Jtuoni13

Shell said:


> Are you talking $500-1000 in medical bills or all expenses total? Because even basic food and minimum vet care (HW preventative, flea/tick meds, yearly checkup with rabies shot) will run about $500 per year.
> 
> For even healthy dogs, as in, those with no genetic issues, it isn't odd to spend a few hundred per year on this and that mishaps. I've spent about $1400 in the past year on non-genetic related injuries and illness-- eye injury, urinary infection, benign tumor removal.
> 
> If money is a concern, you'd be a lot better off putting that huge purchase price towards a more carefully bred dog and the remainder of the purchase price into both insurance and a savings account.



500-1000 is what the breeder told me to expect. if insurance is about $500 plus the cost of food I should be pretty well off. I understand 1 year might cost me 2000 and then next not as much if i went without insurance. 

But then again the whole reason I came here was to make sure I wouldn't be stuck in a spot where I would have to pay 3,000 a year and go bankrupt (not literally but it would cut in to my travel plans)


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## HollowHeaven

This is a 9 week old puppy that literally cannot walk straight. The parents are most likely not health tested and the breeder doesn't care about the quality of her dogs enough to test them for genetic problems (in a very unhealthy breed), prove them in any sport or offer a serious health clause on her pups. She's basing price on color.
Your expenses on this dog are going to run very high very quickly.

Please don't buy from this breeder. :|


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## Keechak

Here is a list of recommended Health testing that is recommended by the French Bulldogs Club of America (plus a couple optional not as necessary tests)
French Bulldog Health Testing
Recommended testing are hip x-rays, eye exam by a board certified ophthalmologist, and a patellar exam.


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## The_Monstors

You can't just assume they do health testing. Ask this breeder to see the health tests of both parents to take to the vet that will do a checkup on your potential puppy. See if they can substantiate actual evidence of this being quality breeding stock. If they can't provide it, then we're not making assumptions but were right on that this isn't cracked up to what it seems to you. Keechak gave you a good list, ask for those specific tests, not "vet checkups". Let us know what they say.

Im in the market for a Frenchie (or a Bulldog) whether Im purchasing or adopting Im not sure yet and have been kinda researching over the year. I've found fantastic breeders that for sure health tests and has proven lines and is full disclosure about their dogs health....they aren't even charging close to 8k on their best, and surely are charging LESS when a non regulation color pops up in their line. 

I get you're a bit attached to the puppy and also Im sure the excitement of thinking about having a puppy in a few weeks is killer, but trust we are looking out for your best interest. If quite a few people are seeing red flags, it's worth stopping and looking into it.


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## Crantastic

Also, one of the people who posted in this thread saying she wouldn't take that puppy is a vet, and a couple of others are breeders.


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## blenderpie

As someone who is hopeful that my male will be bred in the future, it REALLY makes me mad when I see breeders being so unbelievably SELFISH like this.

This breeder is NOT in this for the dogs. She is not out yo make quality dogs, she's not out yo make particularly healthy dogs, and she doesn't care what happens to her dogs once they leave her care.

She may love her dogs, but what she is doing is hurting her breed. Dogs NEED to be tested. It is NOTHING like having a clean bill of health from the vet. In fact, a lot of vets don't even do this kind of testing.

My dog has to be at least two to be tested, he'll be under anesthesia and it will cost us well over a grand (probably closer to two). He has to have his cgc, he will most likely be therapy dog certified. Since we are not interested in all the travel involved with showing, we have to make sure those in his line are doing well in the show ring (his brother is cleaning house) and also many in his line are successful service and search and rescue dogs.

And, after all this, he still might not be "good enough" to breed.

Not to mention that price is outrageous. Unlike clothing or cars, the cost of the pup has NOTHING to do with it's quality. I have a rare breed. People typically wait around 3 years for a pup from my breeder. She still only breeds once or rarely twice a years and her pups are 1200 dollars. Which means she's making 8,000-12, 000 grand A LITTER. Not per dog. And where does that money go? To the food and vet care of her dogs. Nothing else.

Good breeders don't make a profit, they make the breed better. 

I'm sorry this is so long and ranty, but I work at a rescue and this breeder that you're getting this from is the exact reason those dogs are there.


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## Amaryllis

Jtuoni13 said:


> 500-1000 is what the breeder told me to expect. if insurance is about $500 plus the cost of food I should be pretty well off. I understand 1 year might cost me 2000 and then next not as much if i went without insurance.
> 
> But then again the whole reason I came here was to make sure I wouldn't be stuck in a spot where I would have to pay 3,000 a year and go bankrupt (not literally but it would cut in to my travel plans)


Here's the thing: any dog could easily cost you more than $2,000 a year. Easily. One year, Muggsy cost me over $5,000 just in random illnesses and injuries. (He liked to eat all the things.) So maybe you're not really ready for any dog.

But when it comes to this particular dog, I'm guaranteeing you this dog will run you more than $2,000 a year. Even well bred Frenchies have issues and this dog is not well bred. So you're paying twice as much as you should to get a dog that will have health problems. There are tons of great Frenchie breeders around Boston, we'll help you find one.


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## cookieface

Not sure you're still reading, but I would absolutely not get this particular puppy or _any_ from the breeder. This is not a reputable or ethical breeder and I don't understand how anyone who cares about animals could support someone who is breeding for misery and money. 



Jtuoni13 said:


> 500-1000 is what the breeder told me to expect. if insurance is about $500 plus the cost of food I should be pretty well off. I understand 1 year might cost me 2000 and then next not as much if i went without insurance.
> 
> But then again the whole reason I came here was to make sure I wouldn't be stuck in a spot where I would have to pay 3,000 a year and go bankrupt (not literally but it would cut in to my travel plans)


Keep in mind, that many pet insurance plans will not cover hereditary conditions. So, if your puppy develops an illness common in the breed (I believe someone provided a link), you may need to pay those costs. Getting a puppy from a breeder who health tests the parents can help increase the odds that your dog will have a long, healthy life.


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## Jtuoni13

Hi I thought my post last night went through but it did not. 

For starters I was very easily able to get the HEALTH TESTS from the Sire and Dam within an hour of asking. i don't know where it started on here that there was no health tests but I now have both and i believe this led to a lot of speculation that I have been dealing with an unethical breeder. I'm sure if 75% of you went down there yourself and saw the whole operation you would feel differently as well. (my roommate bought his boxer from an unethical breeder and I often joke he was a 'rescue puppy' because he came out what was basically a crackden apartment at 7 weeks with no papers. So I do know the difference)

The breeder also had the dog taken to another vet before I asked for the health tests and x ray to be done. People have made it seem like this breeder does not care for their dogs when there are multiple reasons I could point to where this is not the case.

After consulting the vet the diagnosed my puppy with a mild case of Pectus Excavatum and will not require surgery. She has offered to let me pick a new puppy (none fad color) from the litter or offered to greatly reduce the price on this guy now that they know what the issue is. 

I have done some research on Pectus Excavatum also known as swimmer puppy and it does not appear to be the end of the world. My guy was walking by week 4 and has been improving. Additional tests are being performed to find out the state of the heart and lungs.

I am here to ask any vet or breeder still reading. what is your experience with Pectus Excavatum and what are potential health risks down the road.

Also here is a bery heartwarming story from a puppy that had a much more severe case.

http://www.today.com/id/44617504/ns/today-today_news/t/deformed-puppy-rescued-trash-learns-walk/


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## Crantastic

Which health tests has the breeder had done?

My main issues with this breeder, besides the health test thing, are the breeding of fad colors/selling them for insane prices, not showing the dogs or proving them in any way, and the terrible health guarantee that only lasts one year and doesn't protect against anything.

And some of the most unethical breeders have gorgeous clean homes and lovely yards. That means nothing.

http://www.heroswaggintrain.com/bybreed_pm_book.htm
http://rufflyspeaking.net/what-is-a-dog-show/


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## meggels

Yes, what health tests have been done?


Make no mistake...*this is an unethical breeder*. Someone who is breeding poor quality dogs in fad colors that go against the standard, is only doing harm to this lovely breed. On top of that, they are charging more based on the color. Last time I checked, my dark brindle did not cost more than a fawn, cream, or pied. People that breed TO THE STANDARD, do not charge based on what color you are getting. 

Just because this person has a nice clean home, and probably does care for these dogs, does not mean they are not an unethical breeder. The condition of their home does not change the fact that this person should simply not be breeding dogs, and that you should not be supporting a breeder like this. 

You seem pretty set on this puppy though, so I wish you the best. It seems like you will need luck on your side when dealing with someone like this.


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## Jtuoni13

I actually just spoke to Dr. Young and it seems like you guys have been right all along. The breeder has known this was the condition now for awhile and had not informed me until a few weeks ago when agreed on price which is very upsetting to find out now.

I would also like to point out Dr Young includes spray and neuter and a LIFETIME of free routine vet check ups on her puppys sold including consulting over the phone through pictures and symptoms. Also the good health tests are irrelevant for this puppy now because it was born with this condition.

Dr. Young said in here 30 years of being a vet and 20 breeding she has never bred a puppy with this condition and has only seen a few come in over the years as they are often put down within the first few weeks. I asked about potential health costs over the years and again was given the answer of it being unknown.

So to everyones original advice I should be running for the hills or potentially settle on another healthy puppy.

Thanks again everyone I will try to keep you updated.

Anyone have information on Pectus Excavatum. If I were getting this guy for free or 1000 I wouldn't be completely against raising him as he would essentially be a rescue puppy at this point.


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## Crantastic

I'm glad you're not going to take the puppy. Here at DF, we can sometimes be very blunt about things, but trust me when I say that we want everyone who asks us for advice to end up extremely happy with their dog. We hate to see people ripped off by bad breeders or dealing with high vet bills. One of the people who posted on this thread is a vet, a few are good breeders, and a few of us have bought dogs from good breeders/done a lot of research into what makes a breeder reputable. We want to help. 

meggels has a Frenchie and knows a lot about them -- I'm sure she can point you to some great breeders in your area, if you want! I don't believe that the thing your breeder says about the tails is accurate, either. You may want to stay away from the "screw tail" if you're worried, but many Frenchies have straight tails and I'd assume those would be just fine (note that I don't know much about Frenchie conformation, though). If you contact some good breeders, definitely ask about that.


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## packetsmom

Jtuoni13 said:


> I actually just spoke to Dr. Young and it seems like you guys have been right all along. The breeder has known this was the condition now for awhile and had not informed me until a few weeks ago when agreed on price which is very upsetting to find out now.
> 
> I would also like to point out Dr Young includes spray and neuter and a LIFETIME of free routine vet check ups on her puppys sold including consulting over the phone through pictures and symptoms. Also the good health tests are irrelevant for this puppy now because it was born with this condition.
> 
> Dr. Young said in here 30 years of being a vet and 20 breeding she has never bred a puppy with this condition and has only seen a few come in over the years as they are often put down within the first few weeks. I asked about potential health costs over the years and again was given the answer of it being unknown.
> 
> So to everyones original advice I should be running for the hills or potentially settle on another healthy puppy.
> 
> Thanks again everyone I will try to keep you updated.
> 
> Anyone have information on Pectus Excavatum. If I were getting this guy for free or 1000 I wouldn't be completely against raising him as he would essentially be a rescue puppy at this point.


I would not pay $1000 for a puppy with a known genetic disease. You can get a healthy puppy for that amount or just a bit more.


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## Jtuoni13

packetsmom said:


> I would not pay $1000 for a puppy with a known genetic disease. You can get a healthy puppy for that amount or just a bit more.


I know I can get most any breed for 1000 but not a french bulldog. Which is the breed I'm pretty set on.


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## cookieface

I'm glad you were able to get additional information. I hope you are looking elsewhere for a puppy. Is Dr. Young the vet/breeder you linked to earlier? If I were you, I'd look elsewhere for advice. Start with the breed club and a breeder referral contact there. 



Jtuoni13 said:


> I actually just spoke to Dr. Young and it seems like you guys have been right all along. The breeder has known this was the condition now for awhile and had not informed me until a few weeks ago when agreed on price which is very upsetting to find out now.
> 
> I would also like to point out Dr Young includes spray and neuter and a LIFETIME of free routine vet check ups on her puppys sold including consulting over the phone through pictures and symptoms. Also the good health tests are irrelevant for this puppy now because it was born with this condition.
> 
> Dr. Young said in here 30 years of being a vet and 20 breeding she has never bred a puppy with this condition and has only seen a few come in over the years as they are often put down within the first few weeks. I asked about potential health costs over the years and again was given the answer of it being unknown.
> 
> So to everyones original advice I should be running for the hills or potentially settle on another healthy puppy.
> 
> Thanks again everyone I will try to keep you updated.
> 
> Anyone have information on Pectus Excavatum. If I were getting this guy for free or 1000 I wouldn't be completely against raising him as *he would essentially be a rescue puppy at this point.*


He absolutely would *not* be a rescue if you pay anything for him. You would be rewarding the breeder for misleading you and knowingly selling a sick puppy. 



> When you buy from a pet store or puppy mill or bad breeder, you create pain ten times the size of the good you've done. When you encourage that purchase, you're scratching the chin of a business that can only be called evil.


“I consider him a rescue.”


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## Shell

Jtuoni13 said:


> I know I can get most any breed for 1000 but not a french bulldog. Which is the breed I'm pretty set on.


You could get a rescue Frenchie for much less than $1000 that at least appears healthy at the time of adoption. You'd still be rolling the dice on future genetic problems but at least you wouldn't A) be starting out with major known genetic problems and B) supporting a bad breeder. 

$1000 for a puppy with major health problems from a breeder is in no way "essentially a rescue puppy"


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## meggels

If you would like to me to put some feelers out, let me know. I know of one man who is...well he's one of the big guys in the breed, he is in Massachusetts. So even if he doesn't happen to have puppies available, I am sure he can point you to someone.

I have a friend in Vermont as well....

There's a few good breeders here in Connecticut, though I don't know of them personally. Actually, I think I am friends with one of them on FB...let me check.

And I have a close friend down in Pennsylvania.


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## meggels

OP - are you picky on gender or age? I have already heard from one friend, that they have a 9 month old honey pied female who grew to be too large that they are looking to place.


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## Jtuoni13

meggels said:


> OP - are you picky on gender or age? I have already heard from one friend, that they have a 9 month old honey pied female who grew to be too large that they are looking to place.


Without sounding snobby...yes. 

I grew up with a rescue Poodle until age 7 then didn't live with another dog besides dog sitting until 2.5 years ago when my best friend and I got a place and he has a Boxer I have known since 2 months. He's moving out soon and I started the process months ago of what dog to get to replace. If i could have this boxer in a 25 pound package I would because he has such an amazing personality. I did some research and have dog sat a Frenchie and they are the type of goofballs I was looking for.

I'm 25 and plan on only having 1 dog until later in life when I am more settled and such. I wanted a puppy so I could raise him myself to avoid any potential bad habits as this boxer has a few when hes not being amazing. And I am partial to the color black or black brindle on a Frenchie at least. I prefer male because it seems females can be more aggressive.


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## InkedMarie

meggels said:


> OP - are you picky on gender or age? I have already heard from one friend, that they have a 9 month old honey pied female who grew to be too large that they are looking to place.


Oh gawd. I don't want to read this!


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## meggels

Jtuoni13 said:


> Without sounding snobby...yes.
> 
> I grew up with a rescue Poodle until age 7 then didn't live with another dog besides dog sitting until 2.5 years ago when my best friend and I got a place and he has a Boxer I have known since 2 months. He's moving out soon and I started the process months ago of what dog to get to replace. If i could have this boxer in a 25 pound package I would because he has such an amazing personality. I did some research and have dog sat a Frenchie and they are the type of goofballs I was looking for.
> 
> I'm 25 and plan on only having 1 dog until later in life when I am more settled and such. I wanted a puppy so I could raise him myself to avoid any potential bad habits as this boxer has a few when hes not being amazing. And I am partial to the color black or black brindle on a Frenchie at least. I prefer male because it seems females can be more aggressive.



Fair enough  I went into it wanting a puppy that was going to be 8-10 weeks, but I knew I wanted a male, and I would have *preferred* dark brindle with a white chest as my dream color, though, I was open to any color once I had found the breeder I liked. I ended up with an 8 month old male that was being placed as a pet instead of a show dog, but physically, he was exactly what I wanted 

I would say, if you are very strict on gender, age, and color, you might have to wait several months to find a breeder that will have a puppy that fits that criteria. 


Just so you know though, black isn't an accepted frenchie color. They are technically dark brindles, but there are not solid black frenchies (at least, again, not from a reputable breeder lol).

Is this what you mean? This is my little guy, Murph.










Funny you mention boxers...I actually grew up with boxers, I've had 3 of them (I'm 26 now). And much of what I wanted was similar to a boxer but smaller and not so hyper. That's what brought me to the frenchie...besides the fact that I thought that physically, they were adorable.


And here's just a fun link that goes over all the different color combinations that are accepted in the breed 



InkedMarie said:


> Oh gawd. I don't want to read this!


She's up in Vermont too


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## Jtuoni13

meggels said:


> Funny you mention boxers...I actually grew up with boxers, I've had 3 of them (I'm 26 now). And much of what I wanted was similar to a boxer but smaller and not so hyper. That's what brought me to the frenchie...besides the fact that I thought that physically, they were adorable.


yes that was the original color i wanted. 

And yes I think boxers can be amazing. Just a little hyper and let face it CRAZY. I used to have to ...well box my roommates dog every day for awhile there. He loves a quick boxing match and throws a mean left hook. As cute as he is, as amazing as his personality is my roommate can not get anyone except his parents to watch him if he needs a day or 2 for fear of their dog or just fear of him behing a monster. Which he is but hes our monster. Delivery guys are always scared shitless off his bark so all that led me to a short dog that couldnt hurt anyone but had that same goofball personality that tries to actually talk to you. This boxer legit wishes he could speak english to get his point across.


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## InkedMarie

meggels said:


> She's up in Vermont too


 Are you serious? Crap, can't do four dogs. Someday!


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## Kayota

Jtuoni13 said:


> Anyone have information on Pectus Excavatum. If I were getting this guy for free or 1000 I wouldn't be completely against raising him as he would essentially be a rescue puppy at this point.


Please stop calling dogs from shitty breeders rescues.


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## InkedMarie

Kayota said:


> Please stop calling dogs from shitty breeders rescues.


Wish we had a "like" button here


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## Kayota

It's downright insulting to people who have REAL rescues like my Faxon who would have died without me. Those pups aren't rescues, they're moneymaking machines and removing them just rewards the breeder and makes room for more puppies. Yes they should have good homes but... They aren't rescues.


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## Jtuoni13

I apologize for mis-speaking. Regardless of the breeder every puppy has a chance for a good home.

In college my friend when to Fitchburg state and the guy downstairs from him was always getting his dogs pregnant just to sell puppies for $250 for crack money. (He offered me one on multiple occasions.) It was sad to see and legit nothing that could be done about it other than look away in sadness thinking of what types of homes those dogs eventually would go to.


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## HollowHeaven

Yes but it would be the same thing as buying from a petshop because you feel bad for the dogs; it's supporting their business, showing them there is a market for the sick things they do, and encouraging it. 

Keep looking around for another breeder or a rescue.


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## Jtuoni13

HollowHeaven said:


> Yes but it would be the same thing as buying from a petshop because you feel bad for the dogs; it's supporting their business, showing them there is a market for the sick things they do, and encouraging it.
> 
> Keep looking around for another breeder or a rescue.


OMG I hadn't even thought of a pet shop as a place to look. There really are so many bad places to buy a puppy. Scary world out there some times when you really look closely,


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## meggels

HollowHeaven said:


> Yes but it would be the same thing as buying from a petshop because you feel bad for the dogs; it's supporting their business, showing them there is a market for the sick things they do, and encouraging it.
> 
> Keep looking around for another breeder or a rescue.


well said

OP- here are some good breeders in the area:

Connecticut:

Tracy Cavaciuti – Hollycroft French Bulldogs
http://www.hollycroft.net/


La Bete French Bulldogs 
http://www.labetebulldogs.com/
(I sent them a message on FB as I'm friends with one of the owners)


Faberge French Bulldogs
http://fabergefrenchbulldogs.com/index.php



Massachusetts:


Cape Cod French Bulldogs
http://capecodfrenchbulldogs.com/Cape_Cod_French_Bulldogs/Welcome.html


Labonte French Bulldogs
http://www.labontebulldogs.net/index.html


New Jersey:

Brookhollow Bulldogs
http://www.brookhollowbulldogs.com/


Hladik French Bulldogs
http://www.hladikgreatdanes.com/



Murph's breeder has a friend that has a 13 week old brindle pied female available, but that's not what you want haha


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## Crantastic

Are you only opposed to a female because you think they're more aggressive? That seems odd to me... I haven't found that to be the case with any of the breeds I know well.


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## meggels

Crantastic said:


> Are you only opposed to a female because you think they're more aggressive? That seems odd to me... I haven't found that to be the case with any of the breeds I know well.


If that's the case, definitely not true. The females tend to be a bit more of a spitfire, and the males tend to be a bit more laid back. There's always exception to the rule of course, but that would be my assessment after living with 20 or so different frenchies of both genders. The ones of european lines also tend to be a little bit more fiery.


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## meggels

OP - now I feel like I'm downright stalking you LOL...but I just heard from a friend of mine who actually does have a few pups available, they are only a few weeks old. There are 2 fawn males and 2 pied females. The sire of this litter is *awesome*, just finished his grand championship. Such a handsome guy....

And this lady is truly truly wonderful. Anyone who gets a puppy from her would be lucky


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## InkedMarie

Meg: stop it, lol!!


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## meggels

InkedMarie said:


> Meg: stop it, lol!!


love you lol <3


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## InkedMarie

meggels said:


> love you lol <3


Right back at ya but if you don't stop with available frenchies, I won't!!


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## SDRRanger

I can understand wanting a male instead of a female. I prefer male pets (dogs, cats, rats, horses, etc) because I find them to be bigger goof balls and fit more with my personality; however, I did have a wonderful mutt who was female and she couldn't have been better. 

I'm glad you came to DF for advice on this. Yes, we can be quite blunt (as I am sure you understand there are a lot of people who come on here asking for 'advice' but really wanting people to agree with them) but everyone only has you and the dog's best interests at heart. 

My friend has a dog who suffered from the same condition and it involved a lot of work (massage, taping, swimming in the bathtub and physio. He turned out ok, but the owner spent a whack of money on him (he was thrown out from the litter, literally into a garbage can, and was found by my friend). The ONLY time I would take on a case like that would be as a rescue (as in, I or someone close to me found them and we took it on). I would never pay for the animal knowing the money and time it takes. 

Good luck in your search for the best frenchie to add to you family. I went out looking for a slick light coloured dog and ended up with a BLACK dog of short-medium hair length lol. Who knows who you might fall in love with.


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## Hana taay

Jtuoni13 said:


> Hi, I just got a French Bulldog puppy from a reputable breeder. He was the runt of the litter so it is to be expected he is a little behind in his development. He is by far the smallest puppy in the litter.
> 
> My main concern comes from the breeder yesterday letting me know I am welcome to select a different puppy because she is mildly worried about my little guys walk. He walks like he is drunk, crosses his legs and falls a fair amount but gets right back up and keeps walking. It appear his legs are longer than a normal Frenchie and he is still growing into them. I have included a few videos to give everyone a sense of what his walk looks like.
> 
> Is there anyone else who has experienced a puppy, especially a runt taking a little extra time to learn to walk and run. She has had the vet check him out and said everything was normal and was told he will eventually get the hang of it. I would like a second opinion to be reassured that this is not a internal issue or something I will have to be worried about long term (future disabilities and vet bills).
> 
> Any and all help is welcome as I just want to make sure I will not have problems down the road and do not mind being extra patient with his development as long as I know it is only temporary.
> 
> I have ruled out bow legged and Wobblers syndrome but could be wrong. He is currently 9 weeks and I take him home in a week. The breeder said 4 weeks ago he could barely even walk and had to do a little physical thearpy to bring his front legs in from going way out to going straight under his body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also here is a photo of him sitting with his legs out instead of directly under him.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/pBYaqOa





Jtuoni13 said:


> Hi, I just got a French Bulldog puppy from a reputable breeder. He was the runt of the litter so it is to be expected he is a little behind in his development. He is by far the smallest puppy in the litter.
> 
> My main concern comes from the breeder yesterday letting me know I am welcome to select a different puppy because she is mildly worried about my little guys walk. He walks like he is drunk, crosses his legs and falls a fair amount but gets right back up and keeps walking. It appear his legs are longer than a normal Frenchie and he is still growing into them. I have included a few videos to give everyone a sense of what his walk looks like.
> 
> Is there anyone else who has experienced a puppy, especially a runt taking a little extra time to learn to walk and run. She has had the vet check him out and said everything was normal and was told he will eventually get the hang of it. I would like a second opinion to be reassured that this is not a internal issue or something I will have to be worried about long term (future disabilities and vet bills).
> 
> Any and all help is welcome as I just want to make sure I will not have problems down the road and do not mind being extra patient with his development as long as I know it is only temporary.
> 
> I have ruled out bow legged and Wobblers syndrome but could be wrong. He is currently 9 weeks and I take him home in a week. The breeder said 4 weeks ago he could barely even walk and had to do a little physical thearpy to bring his front legs in from going way out to going straight under his body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zeppelin walking 2
> Zeppelin walking 3
> 
> also here is a photo of him sitting with his legs out instead of directly under him. Zep


hey I have the same exact issue but my French bulldog teacup is 15 weeks did he get better?


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## Lillith

This thread is nearly 9 years old and the posters are no longer active. You would have better luck getting a response starting your own thread. I'm closing this to further replies.


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