# Family Dog is Overweight!



## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

Hi Everyone! This is only my second thread ever on this website...

So at my dad's house we have 2 cairn terriers and a yorkie poo. One of the Cairn Terriers, Kyro, is overweight. How overweight? No idea. Cuz I'm only 16 and therefore irrelevant with the dogs' overall health and well being even though I'm the only one that's trying to make a difference in their lives. :crazy:

Now that I got that off my chest...

Yes I realize I could do the whole weigh myself, then pick him up, weight the both of us, subtract his weight, that whole thing. But that's the thing, he's that overweight. Yes, I can probably still lift him, I'm pretty strong myself but he growls like he's in pain. I tried lifting him to get in the bathtub recently and he bit me and left a mark for a few days. :hand:

What I do right now is take him for a walk every morning (more like noonish cuz I'm out of school right now and I sleep in cuz I can :rockon. I only started 3 days ago and I walk probably around a mile. I think he enjoys it. Just since I've started walking him he seems happier, he follows me around, and he doesn't seem intent on getting in trouble. (My step-mom brought home the yorkie poo 2ish years into having the Cairn Terriers. Kyro and him don't get along, marking their territory in the house, nobody cares enough to discipline them and I never catch them in time :nono

He eats around a cup of dry dog food in the morning (my stepmom feeds them before she leaves for work). I don't know how nutritious the food is, we keep the dog food in a big container and I'm never with them when they bring home a new bag, I assume its just the cheapest they can find. 

Other than that, yeah they're in their kennels a lot, as much as I complain about it. Kyro is the only overweight one. The other two are pushing it as far as I can tell but not overweight. 

I plan on keeping up with the walks. They are enjoyable for me as well. I'm just dreading when school starts and the walks get moved to 6am. 

Is there anything else I can do? Yes I've only started the walks 3 days ago, I'm not expecting any immediate weight loss although there is a change in behavior, for the better. 

As a vegan I am aware about nutrition and I know at least for humans it's 80% about diet and 20% about exercise when it comes to weight loss but I don't have the whole diet part in my control. If it was, personally I would make homemade dog food, but being vegan, the dog food would also have to be vegan (which I have researched and know it to be quite successful). My parent's already hate my diet decision. If I brought the dogs into it I think I would be disowned. :frusty:

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, is there any way to help Kyro lose some weight besides diet wise, or any slightly cheap diet changes I could make? I love my baby, even if he's a family dog, he's always been my favorite and I've always been his. I don't want him to have anything less than the best, even if it's not in my control, I'm willing to try. 

And now, just because DogForums has it and Fishlore Forums don't....

:llama:

teehee, we need to get this back at Fishlore. 

Anyway, any help is appreciated.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Most dogs do not fare well on a vegan diet, as they are carnivores. But good on you for taking charge of his health!

Consistent exercise and less food are the only things that will really help manage his weight, so it looks like you're off to a good start  Keep the walks short, but frequent since you don't want to stress his joints too much (they have enough stress from the weight!).

Starting off by finding out what he's being fed, and looking up how much he should be fed at his IDEAL weight and feeding him that amount, along with the walks, will probably result in weight loss  It will probably take a while though.


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## Kyle071785 (Nov 28, 2013)

Good on you for taking the initiative.

First step is to find out the food the dogs are currently eating as it'll go a long way in determining whether its junk or quality (in terms of product).

Second, if the food is a "junk" quality, perhaps suggest to your parents a better brand. There are TONS of foods out there that are great quality and don't necessarily have to cost a lot. Let us know some pet stores around you (as many will be able to point out the brands they carry).

Third, if your parents are unable/unwilling to change foods, you may suggest cutting back on the portion sizes for a period of time. Nothing too substantial at once but gradually until you see a positive change. So if they're at 1 cup 2x/day now, you can move to 3/4 of a cup 2x/day, etc.

Fourth, keep the walks up. Start where you're at and you'll likely find their duration increasing over time.

Regardless diets will take time. Keep us posted


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

If the family won't do anything, I don't expect any improvement :/. What do you think they ARE willing to do? 

A higher-protein food could help. Even just a better-quality food, so he can eat less to get the same amount of nutrition. His food will need to be carefully measured and strictly controlled (any treats/scraps must be included in daily calorie count, that amount of dog food subtracted from total). Getting him moving is good for him in general but won't do much for his weight without a reduction in his food intake.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

It's not hard to get a healthy dog to lose weight (thyroid issues can make weight loss impossible), but you have be in control of their diet. I feed my dog a little over a cup a day, and he is significantly bigger than a cairn terrier. Admittedly, I'm feeding grain free, high protein food, so I will feed less volume, but that still seems like way too much to me.

As to the vegan thing . . . if you want to be vegan and have pets, have pets that aren't carnivores. It isn't fair to force a carnivore to subsist on a vegan diet. Can dogs survive on a vegan diet? Some of them, sure. Dogs are survivors, they can make it through almost anything. It's still not fair.


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

Kyle071785 said:


> Second, if the food is a "junk" quality, perhaps suggest to your parents a better brand. There are TONS of foods out there that are great quality and don't necessarily have to cost a lot. Let us know some pet stores around you (as many will be able to point out the brands they carry).


The pet stores near me are Petco and Petsmart. Although I'm almost positive my parents get the food from Menard's or Sam's Club.


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

Amaryllis said:


> As to the vegan thing . . . if you want to be vegan and have pets, have pets that aren't carnivores. It isn't fair to force a carnivore to subsist on a vegan diet. Can dogs survive on a vegan diet? Some of them, sure. Dogs are survivors, they can make it through almost anything. It's still not fair.


There's no chance that my parents will let me switch the dogs to a vegan diet. And honestly I don't think I could keep up making any dog food homemade. I didn't ask for this commitment. My dad came home with these 2 dogs one day saying they're our new family dogs and I'm trying to make the best of it because nobody else cares enough. I don't plan on owning any non-vegan pets when I get older, if any pets at all.


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

I just found the dog food bag. It's Master Paws Original Formula from Menards.


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## Kyle071785 (Nov 28, 2013)

Anon97 said:


> I just found the dog food bag. It's Master Paws Original Formula from Menards.


I haven't even heard of Menards of that brand of food. After trying to find an ingredient list on their website and coming up empty (same with reviews on sites), I can't imagine it being anything other than a low quality food.

http://www.menards.com/main/pet-wildlife/dog-pet-supplies/dog-food/masterpaws-original-formula-for-all-size-dogs/p-1945902-c-8314.htm

If your parents are open to another food let us know and we can suggest some. Petsmart sells many brands that will likely be a huge step up from the current food.


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

Kyle071785 said:


> I haven't even heard of Menards of that brand of food. After trying to find an ingredient list on their website and coming up empty (same with reviews on sites), I can't imagine it being anything other than a low quality food.
> 
> http://www.menards.com/main/pet-wildlife/dog-pet-supplies/dog-food/masterpaws-original-formula-for-all-size-dogs/p-1945902-c-8314.htm
> 
> If your parents are open to another food let us know and we can suggest some. Petsmart sells many brands that will likely be a huge step up from the current food.


I asked my dad about how much it costs, what brand it was, etc. He just said $20-40, whatever's the cheapest. It's a big bag, maybe around 50 lbs. So anything around that price range (it was probably closer to the $20 end.) and I think they would consider the switch.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Anon97 said:


> I asked my dad about how much it costs, what brand it was, etc. He just said $20-40, whatever's the cheapest. It's a big bag, maybe around 50 lbs. So anything around that price range (it was probably closer to the $20 end.) and I think they would consider the switch.


$20 for 50 lbs of food pretty much limits you to bad food. But spending a little bit more opens up some more options that are decent. From Menards, I'd probably go with Diamond Naturals chicken and rice which should run about $30 for 40 lbs. From Tractor Supply, I have bought SportMix Wholesome for $28 for 40 lbs and I think the quality is quite good (and the company more reputable than Diamond brands). 

But regardless of the food, portion control is the key while slowly increasing exercise. If he's so heavy that you can barely lift him to measure his weight on a scale (that's how I weighed my smaller dog and she's over 60 lbs.....), he is probably SEVERELY overweight since a Cairn Terrier should be around 14-15 lbs maybe even up to 20 lbs if the dog is oversized in height but I'd guessing you could lift 20 lbs just fine. So it is possible that he is growling out of pain when you try to lift him because his joints have been taking a beating carrying around the extra weight. So for walking, start with level ground and try to keep him walking in grass or dirt mostly to limit the impact on his joints (asphalt is better than concrete, but dirt or grass is best). Then gradually take longer walks and add in some small hills.


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## Hambonez (Mar 17, 2012)

Does he only eat once a day, or is he fed a cup twice a day? Either way, that could be too much food. My dog weighs 18 lbs, which would be on the heavy end for a Cairn terrier, and he gets a good amount of exercise, and he only gets 1/2 cup a day total. He eats a high quality food, which generally means they need less of it, but cutting back on the food might be a way to start. Can you find on the bag the kcals/cup? That would give you more information so you could figure out how many calories he needs v. how much he's getting. 

With regards to being crated a lot, my dog isn't crated a lot (sometimes when we go out), and he spends most of his day sleeping anyway. 

I'm vegan as well, but my animals are not, so they all eat meat based food. My dog is very fit and healthy on an appropriate amount of high quality meat based dog food, and I wouldn't mess with that. 

Definitely keep walking him! It can only help, physically and mentally!


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Another thing to look out for is treats! Especially for such a small dog, treats can quickly add up- especially if they're the table-scrap variety.


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## w8ing4rain (Sep 4, 2008)

A cup of food sounds like a lot but it depends on what the food is. Dixie is a Cairn mix but at 13 lbs is about right for a Cairn. She only eats 1/2 cup of food per day divided into two meals. A better quality food can mean feeding less. Her food is more expensive per bag but a 4lb bag lasts a month. Her favorite snack/treat is carrots. A bag of carrots isn't too expensive and is low in calories. If cutting back his food leaves him hungry you might try adding some carrots or green beans as treats they will help fill him up without filling him out.


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

Shell said:


> $20 for 50 lbs of food pretty much limits you to bad food. But spending a little bit more opens up some more options that are decent. From Menards, I'd probably go with Diamond Naturals chicken and rice which should run about $30 for 40 lbs. From Tractor Supply, I have bought SportMix Wholesome for $28 for 40 lbs and I think the quality is quite good (and the company more reputable than Diamond brands).
> 
> But regardless of the food, portion control is the key while slowly increasing exercise. If he's so heavy that you can barely lift him to measure his weight on a scale (that's how I weighed my smaller dog and she's over 60 lbs.....), he is probably SEVERELY overweight since a Cairn Terrier should be around 14-15 lbs maybe even up to 20 lbs if the dog is oversized in height but I'd guessing you could lift 20 lbs just fine. So it is possible that he is growling out of pain when you try to lift him because his joints have been taking a beating carrying around the extra weight. So for walking, start with level ground and try to keep him walking in grass or dirt mostly to limit the impact on his joints (asphalt is better than concrete, but dirt or grass is best). Then gradually take longer walks and add in some small hills.


I agree with the portion control. My stepmom just fills the bowls to the brim, and they're around 1 cup when full. I'll talk to her about that. Maybe get a scoop that's only 3/4 cup or 1/2.
The walk we go on has some hills but I can definitely find a different route. Thanks for the advice!


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

Hambonez said:


> Does he only eat once a day, or is he fed a cup twice a day? Either way, that could be too much food. My dog weighs 18 lbs, which would be on the heavy end for a Cairn terrier, and he gets a good amount of exercise, and he only gets 1/2 cup a day total. He eats a high quality food, which generally means they need less of it, but cutting back on the food might be a way to start. Can you find on the bag the kcals/cup? That would give you more information so you could figure out how many calories he needs v. how much he's getting.
> 
> With regards to being crated a lot, my dog isn't crated a lot (sometimes when we go out), and he spends most of his day sleeping anyway.
> 
> ...


The chart on the bag is pretty useless. For his ideal weight it just says 1/2 to 1 and 1/2 cups. Which is a pretty big range. He is just fed in the morning. Is 2 meals a day better? And if I were to change the amount should I do it gradually or just all at once? And would half a cup be the best for him?


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

ireth0 said:


> Another thing to look out for is treats! Especially for such a small dog, treats can quickly add up- especially if they're the table-scrap variety.


I personally don't give table scraps, as much as they beg for it. And their faces are so hypnotizing! But I'm not too sure about my step mom. Shes the spoiling type..

We do however give them baby carrots as treats occasionally.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Anon97 said:


> The chart on the bag is pretty useless. For his ideal weight it just says 1/2 to 1 and 1/2 cups. Which is a pretty big range. He is just fed in the morning. Is 2 meals a day better? And if I were to change the amount should I do it gradually or just all at once? And would half a cup be the best for him?


For adult dogs, either 1 or 2 meals per day is fine. Many people like to feed 2 meals because some dogs get hunger-vomits if their stomach is empty for too long like it can be on only 1 meal. 
Cutting down on high calorie treats and table scraps is going to be important. Healthy treats like carrots and green beans or even something like a homemade chicken broth popsicle to chew on outside. 

For a relatively inactive dog, especially if he is neutered, the lowest end of the suggested feeding scale is usually enough. If he's getting 1 cup total per day now and is overweight, I would cut him back to 3/4 cup for a few weeks and then back to 1/2 cup and stay with that. You don't need a scale to tell if he is losing weight, just run your hands over his sides and over his back and feel his body condition now and then check for changes weekly or so.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

This May I adopted a dog from the local SPCA that was morbidly obese. She's since lost 20 lb in the past 3.5 months and is feeling SO much better! It's really, really worth it to try and get that weight off the poor dog. It really was as simple as switching her to a higher quality food, feeding less of it (with very few treats), and getting outside for some exercise. That's it. She's on a food that about $60 for a 26 lb bag, but that lasts about three months when she's not overfed! A lot of people think buying better food is so expensive, but when they can get nutrients from a good quality food you don't have to feed a lot.

Not to mention the amounts on the bags are wrong anyways, and clearly this little guy should be eating a lot less if he's obese on this amount. You should get measuring cups and work on slowly decreasing the amount he's getting per day. For dogs a really big part of weight loss is portion control. Exercise helps and certainly builds muscle, but initially an obese dog can't get out to exercise for more than 15 minutes anyways. I'd go out for a few short walks as well, as brisk as you can be without it being too much for him. If you are increasing exercise I'd recommend a joint supplement if that's something you're willing to spend money on, since exercise can be tough on an overweight dog's joints.


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## mcdavis (May 1, 2012)

Our last cairn was on the smaller side, lean, and weighed around 16lbs, whilst our current one is much taller, lean, and around 20lbs. I know a number of people with cairns that weigh up to 24lbs and are definitely not overweight, but it does depend on the build. I would be less concerned by the actual weight and focus more on body condition. Both our dogs were / are fed around 1 cup of food /day (split over two meals) including treats but they were / are very active (14yr old would do 4-5 miles most days).
How old is Kyro? If he's experiencing joint pain because of the excess weight you need to be very careful about the amount of exercise he has and increase the distance very slowly. You might also want to consider joint supplements.
Is it also possible that he's eating some of the other dogs' food which is why he's gained more than the others?


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

mcdavis said:


> Our last cairn was on the smaller side, lean, and weighed around 16lbs, whilst our current one is much taller, lean, and around 20lbs. I know a number of people with cairns that weigh up to 24lbs and are definitely not overweight, but it does depend on the build. I would be less concerned by the actual weight and focus more on body condition. Both our dogs were / are fed around 1 cup of food /day (split over two meals) including treats but they were / are very active (14yr old would do 4-5 miles most days).
> How old is Kyro? If he's experiencing joint pain because of the excess weight you need to be very careful about the amount of exercise he has and increase the distance very slowly. You might also want to consider joint supplements.
> Is it also possible that he's eating some of the other dogs' food which is why he's gained more than the others?


He is definitely built a little taller than the other Cairn Terrier, Kacy, but like the above picture from @Shell I can tell he is at least overweight, if not obese. I have no idea how old he is. I would guess around 6 years old. My stepmom keeps the dishes in the kennels, and sometimes I catch the yorkie eating from Kyro's dish but I never catch Kyro eating from the others. 

I talked to my step mom today. She is not willing to limit the dogs food amounts. She says if they get any less, they will whine. Obviously she is not ready to take the initiative and doesn't really care about their health. I wish she would realize that this was part her decision to get the dogs (especially the Yorkie Poo, I don't even think my dad knew about that) and that she should take on the responsibility too. Any advice on getting her to jump in on helping Kyro? It seems as though she doesn't think being overweight or obese is a problem for him.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

Anon97 said:


> I talked to my step mom today. She is not willing to limit the dogs food amounts. She says if they get any less, they will whine. Obviously she is not ready to take the initiative and doesn't really care about their health. I wish she would realize that this was part her decision to get the dogs (especially the Yorkie Poo, I don't even think my dad knew about that) and that she should take on the responsibility too. Any advice on getting her to jump in on helping Kyro? It seems as though she doesn't think being overweight or obese is a problem for him.


I totally get it. It can be hard when parents or other people close to you are stubborn in their ways, even when it's not in the best interest. Let her know that studies show overweight dogs, and this is just a bit overweight and not obese, live on average almost 2 years less than other dogs that are at a healthy weight. Doesn't she want Kyro to live a long, healthy life? 

When my dog was over 20 lb overweight the people at the shelter mostly shrugged it off and said she was a lazy couch potato who would rather sit around than play or run. They were SO wrong. She was just uncomfortable when she tried to be active! For a dog the stress on their heart and joints makes it difficult for them to do so many of the things dogs love! Now she adores playing fetch or tug, zooming around the house in excitement, and going for brisk walks and jogs. She is definitely not a couch potato. I know you guys will see a positive change in your little guy if you can cut back his food and increase exercise. Getting my dog to be healthy enough to play (for more than 5 minutes) has really made her come out of her shell and be overall so much happier.


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## fordiesel69 (Jul 11, 2014)

Get a sled pulling harness and make him pull 5 lbs at first. Then up to to 10 and stay there for a while. This will not stress the joints,but instead help burn calories and build muscle. There are two ways to loose weight, cut back, or increase excercise. 

Secondly, cheap dog food is death in a bag. Kind of like a mcdonalds diet. Death in a bag, served fast. Its ALL fillers, glues, and non essential grains.

With parents, to get what you want, will take a postive initiative, you could offer to chip in extra money for better food, instead of saying, "people on the internet say the food we are feeding the dog is bad, we need to change to somthing more expensive", will get you no where.


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

I think the key might be to sit both your parents down at the table and come into the conversation prepared. Show them the picture from Shell. Have some information regarding why his being overweight is bad and how you see it affecting him in his regular life. Maybe suggest ways you all can work together to help (I know you are already walking him, which is great). Maybe suggest some things that can be done if he is whining because of eating less kibble (like giving him some dog-friendly veggies instead). You can explain that higher quality kibble enables you to feed less and can also, in the long run, lower vet costs. Coming to the table with some kibble options that are realistic for them would probably be good too. Tell them how important it is to you because you love him and you want to see him live a long and healthy life.


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## Anon97 (Aug 13, 2014)

pawsaddict said:


> I think the key might be to sit both your parents down at the table and come into the conversation prepared. Show them the picture from Shell. Have some information regarding why his being overweight is bad and how you see it affecting him in his regular life. Maybe suggest ways you all can work together to help (I know you are already walking him, which is great). Maybe suggest some things that can be done if he is whining because of eating less kibble (like giving him some dog-friendly veggies instead). You can explain that higher quality kibble enables you to feed less and can also, in the long run, lower vet costs. Coming to the table with some kibble options that are realistic for them would probably be good too. Tell them how important it is to you because you love him and you want to see him live a long and healthy life.


Thanks for the reply! I've actually got my dad to listen for once. He's willing to buy some good dog food, although I might end up chipping in to get the really good quality if need be. He's going to talk to my step mom to try to get her away from feeding the dogs. There's no way I'm going to trust her to feed them a better portion, I already found the scoop in the garbage (it was a plastic cup that I measured 3/4 of a cup in and cut the rest off). Hopefully when she sees how much happier and healthier the dogs are, she'll be more on board. 

I was thinking about getting poor Kyro some joint supplements. I found some in more of a pill form and then some in a snack form. Does anybody have some suggestions on what works best? I only looked on Amazon but if there are any good ones at Petco or Petsmart I can definitely stop by there.


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## Eenypup (Mar 21, 2014)

We use NaturVet Joint Health Level 2 (Moderate). You can find different options at Petco!


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## pawsaddict (Apr 17, 2013)

So glad that your dad took your concerns to heart. I'm sure your step-mom will get on board as well when she sees the benefits of all these positive changes. Please keep us updated. 

I wish I had some suggestions for joint supplements, but being up in Canada, I think what I have available is quite different from what you will have access to.


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