# Need help choosing the right breed of puppy



## sixhubbs (Oct 23, 2015)

We're ready for a new puppy but don't know which breed to chose. We like golden retrievers but they are a bit too big. We'd like a mid size dog and we love reddish hair. We want a mellow, not hyper dog that doesn't yip at everything or is easily spooked. Any suggestions?


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## SirviRavenWind (Dec 1, 2014)

when you say reddish what kind of shades are you meaning? many of the small to medium breeds that come to mind are more of a brown. Are you dead set on a puppy? since you want the dog to be laid back you may want to go with an older dog. What kind of lifestyle do you have and what kind of care (such as grooming) are you willing to do?


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## sixhubbs (Oct 23, 2015)

Red like the dark red golden retrievers but any shade is okay, would prefer not a white or black dog. Personality is more important. Not super high maintenance on the care or health problems. I saw a golden retriever/ king charles cavalier spaniel that I liked but someone said that it might have health problems. People come and go at our house all day and I travel but someone is usually home. My kids would really like a puppy. They are older and will be gone in a couple of years.


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## Kona'smommy (Aug 4, 2015)

I have a 6 month old "coltriever". She is 3 parts golden retriever and one part border collie. Like you we wanted a golden but didn't want the size so this is the perfect solution for us. She is an AMAZING puppy so far. So smart and easy to train, lots of fun but not overly energetic, super snuggly and responsive to human interaction like a golden, sweet and calm with everyone she meets. Size wise she is currently 38 lbs and we think she will be about 45 - 50 lbs full grown. 
Now the tricky part is finding this mix. I got lucky and found a breeder in our area who has been breeding this mix for 15+ years. She does different percentages of a mix between the two breeds but I knew I wanted primarily golden retriever.


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## SirviRavenWind (Dec 1, 2014)

sixhubbs said:


> Red like the dark red golden retrievers but any shade is okay, would prefer not a white or black dog. Personality is more important. Not super high maintenance on the care or health problems. I saw a golden retriever/ king charles cavalier spaniel that I liked but someone said that it might have health problems. People come and go at our house all day and I travel but someone is usually home. My kids would really like a puppy. They are older and will be gone in a couple of years.


 I would have to agree as CKCS do tend to have lots of issues. With mixes you want to make sure the breeder health tests for both breeds, since some can carry for each others defects. If you are interested in mixes then you will need to see if both have the red color you want since you seem to want that.


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

Could you give us more info. on what you expect to do with your dog? Like how much exercise you are willing to give, whether you've had dogs before, what sort of activities you see doing with your dog, how much grooming, etc.?


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## TSTrainer (Aug 6, 2015)

Yeah need more info. And just so you know, puppies are a lot of work and they generally aren't mellow. They're just like kids, they have their sweet, easygoing moments and their crazy energy moments and their "i'm bored entertain me" moments so I wouldn't expect much more than that until your pup is older.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

What about an English cocker spaniel? They come in a goldish color and are a small sporting type dog.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

I find that most kids very quickly dislike puppies when the puppy is constantly jumping on and nipping them/destroying their toys/clothes. Which puppies -will- do for a period of time until they mature and/or learn alternate behaviours. Especially younger children because the dog is right in their face. 

I have a younger cousin (3-4years old) that was -terrified- of dogs because the only experience he'd had was an exuberant puppy that constantly jumped/licked and generally was overwhelming for him. When he first met my dog who was a calm adult, even her just taking a calm, slow, step in his direction caused him to scream due to his past bad experiences. With time he is learning that he doesn't have to be afraid of her, but he's still very wary.


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## Amaryllis (Dec 28, 2011)

Will you look at this dog? Mid-sized, reddish, golden retrievery, mellow! He's perfect!










You can't have this dog because he's mine, but you can find a dog like that in rescue. Yes, you skip the puppy phase, but quite frankly, who does want the nipping, chewing, peeing and pooping part of it all, anyway? I skipped all that and got straight to the good stuff!


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

As Amaryllis wrote, you can find smaller Goldens and Labs. A 3 -5 yo rescue adult, or possibly the smaller pup from a breeder.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

Amaryllis said:


> Will you look at this dog? Mid-sized, reddish, golden retrievery, mellow! He's perfect!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have never been able to bond with older dogs, I dont know why, but I just havent. Though, if this will be the OP's first dog it could be an option. There are tons if reddish golden mixes in the shelters around us.

OP you should start seaching petfinder, they will let you search by your city and zipcode, and if you dont find anything right away, you can set up an email alert for when something you might be interested in does come in.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I have never been able to bond with older dogs, I dont know why, but I just havent.


That's pretty much on you not the dog. The vast majority of dogs will have zero issues bonding with new owners regardless of their age.


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

Pretty much no puppies fall into the "mellow" category. If mellow is really important to you right off the bat, I would go with an adult from rescue. 

If mellow is not that important to you, how much exercise can you provide?


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## taquitos (Oct 18, 2012)

dagwall said:


> That's pretty much on you not the dog. The vast majority of dogs will have zero issues bonding with new owners regardless of their age.


Gotta agree with this. Sometimes they may take longer to come around but they will definitely bond with new owners.

I have never had issues bonding to any dogs. In fact, I've bonded better with adult dogs than puppies that I've had to take care of.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I don't think it's just me because I have known other people who say the same thing.


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## Crantastic (Feb 3, 2010)

I think that's silly. I'm probably more closely bonded with Crystal than I have been with any other dog I've owned, and I got her when she was a year old.


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## sydneynicole (Apr 2, 2015)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I don't think it's just me because I have known other people who say the same thing.


They didn't say it was just you - what they're saying is that if a person doesn't bond with older dogs, that's not the dog's fault. The dog would bond with you but since you don't feel connected to it, you probably wouldn't even notice, or encourage it.

Personally I much prefer older dogs, even the fact that my puppy is 4 months old versus 2 months is a relief, but I still would have preferred an older dog. Bringing them up yourself has its advantages, though.

Also...puppies are in shelters too? You take a chance with a puppy, from a breeder or shelter, either way it could turn out mellow or high energy.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Crantastic said:


> I think that's silly. I'm probably more closely bonded with Crystal than I have been with any other dog I've owned, and I got her when she was a year old.


Yep, if anyone claimed Luna and I didn't have a bond the people who know us IRL would laugh you out of the room.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

I think sometimes there is a stigma in admitting you like or bond more easily with puppies and I don't think that's necessarily fair. 

There are two kinds of dogs I bond most easily with:
Puppies - young puppies and 
Really old dogs.
And, I guess, a sometimes conditional third:
Dogs with *some*_ specific_ sorts of health issues, disabilities, or temperament problems.

Why? Because the sense that this little thing depends on me plays up my emotions and I, yeah, bond faster and more easily because of my own emotional state. It isn't that I'm NOT going to bond with a young adult, healthy, stable, dog. It's that the young adult, healthy, stable dog is going to feel like someone else's dog to me for much longer than a puppy, senior, or dog with (again, specific) issues. 

It isn't that I'm calling the young, healthy, adult dogs inferior or claiming I can't bond with them, it's that I'm going to bond better with a young puppy than a 2 year old. That's just... the end game for me. If I were saying the dog was damaged goods, couldn't bond with ME, or that I wouldn't be able to 'mould' the dog to become what I want you would be justified in saying I'm silly - or just stupid/offensive. If I said NO ONE could bond with an adult dog, I would hope someone would thoroughly kick my butt.

Saying I'm silly for preferring puppies (or old dogs or big dogs or hairy dogs or dogs with prick ears or -) is akin to saying I'm silly for preferring chocolate cake. I'm not saying I prefer chocolate cake because vanilla cake is stupid. It's just taste and individual preference. And I'm not even going to live with that cake for years


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

CptJack said:


> I think sometimes there is a stigma in admitting you like or bond more easily with puppies and I don't think that's necessarily fair.
> 
> There are two kinds of dogs I bond most easily with:
> Puppies - young puppies and
> ...


Bolded statement - exactly. I personally do NOT bond well with puppies. I don't like very young members of any species, whether it be humans or dogs or cats or horses.

I feel strongly about my obligation TO Titan. I am dedicated to his training and his mental health and turning him into a "good" dog. But I don't feel strongly ABOUT Titan yet. I don't really even know what kind of dog he's going to be. I get glimpses here and there, but for the most part, his personality is not knowable, because it's just developing. Right now he's at turns goofy and awkward and feisty and bratty and asleep.

I have bonded well with dogs within the 1-2 year old range, in my experience, but that has to come with a grain of salt because I've only ever adopted dogs who were literally about to die. So I think I've perhaps bonded with them because of the circumstances under which I saved them and not their age.

I think "bonds" are based on many more factors than just age. They're based on circumstance and the dog at hand, in my experience.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Ultimately for me, and in spite of saying all that, I basically operate in two ways:

The adult dog can be EXACTLY what I want and am looking for *or* I can have a puppy/very old dog/dog with some issues who really-really needs me and maintain a lot of flexibility about it going in. 

I will bond with any dog ever, just to be honest, but I am way more likely to take things as they come with a puppy and that smooths some things out. I guess I know going in things are more or less a gamble and I'm ready for whatever and willing to roll with it. I get very... flustered and have Expectations with an adult dog. On top of having to put a lot more work into knowing a fully formed living creature.

Those aren't bad things! I don't even actually bond with "My" puppies until they're older and I start seeing personality. I am just, I guess, better primed to accept the CRAP that may crop up when it's not a healthy young adult dog. 

My brain's odd.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

CptJack said:


> I think sometimes there is a stigma in admitting you like or bond more easily with puppies and I don't think that's necessarily fair.
> 
> There are two kinds of dogs I bond most easily with:
> Puppies - young puppies and
> ...


I have zero issues with people preferring to get dogs of a certain age. I was just saying that if you CAN'T bond with an adult dog it's on your side not the dogs, the dog will bond with you. If that's true then just don't get adult dogs and problem solved. Just wanted to take away any implication (intended or not) that an adult dog would have trouble bonding with new owners because that simply isn't true. I understand and have no problems with people knowing what they prefer and sticking to that.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

It's not so much "crap" for me as it is the prospect of having to undo everyone else's "crap" with an older dog LOL, in most instances, you either have to undo someone else's training, or lack thereof. With a puppy (either from a good breeder, or a fostered shelter puppy) it's a clean slate, no one has written on it yet.

At least that is the way I feel.

And just for the record, I never said it was IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to bond with an adult dog, but I just said I PERSONALLY have a harder time binding with an adult dog. I dont see why that has to be "all on me", I think I know enough about myself to say that I just dont click with older dogs.


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## Laurelin (Nov 2, 2006)

I dunno. I don't feel like any of the older dogs have been hard to train. Hank had like 0 training and he definitely picked it up faster than a puppy would have.


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## Willowy (Dec 10, 2007)

> I just said I PERSONALLY have a harder time binding with an adult dog. I dont see why that has to be "all on me", I think I know enough about myself to say that I just dont click with older dogs.


. . .that's what "all on you" means. YOU don't bond with older dogs, it's not the dog who can't bond with you. Nobody said there's anything wrong with that, just clarifying that it's not an issue on the dog's end.

I prefer older dogs. I find puppies to be frustrating and I don't deal with frustration well. I can relate to an older dog as a fully formed individual while babies are just sort of all generic babies. I can't bond to the individual until they've developed enough individuality to bond with. Not to say I don't bond with puppies---LOL, I can look at any random dog and feel some kind of bond, and puppies are cute and vulnerable which doesn't hurt---but it's not the same kind of relationship.

The puppies I've raised turned out with more issues that the dog I got as adults so either I'm really bad at raising puppies or my adult dogs didn't have major issues. I definitely preferred potty-training Toby. . .the first time we walked into the house, he started to lift his leg on the furniture and I said "no! Don't do that! Let's go outside!" and he finished outside and I told him how great he was and that was that. He's never pottied inside since (except when having tummy emergencies). That was a lot easier on me than rushing a puppy outside every 15 minutes. . ..


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

LOL Lincoln didnt have to go out every 15 minutes, more like every hour or so MAYBE every 45 if he was out running around and drank a lot when he came back in. 

Did we have some accidents? Sure! but they werent his fault, or mine, he has some tummy issues as a young pup and had a couple of accidents as a result of that. but he NEVER did it out of choice, it also helped that the breeder litter box trained him so he sort of came conditioned to "go to a place" to use the bathroom. He was also 13 wks old when we brought him home, so he was already making it through the night (with a last call after dinner at about 11pm ... which all the adult dogs get).

Out of all the pups I have had, both rescue/shelter, and from breeders, Josefina was the ONLY one who I never could bond with. the problem was that her personality never changed, I kept sitting there, waiting for the drive, the edge that usually comes with an ACD and ACD mixes to surface, excited for it, craving it and it never came. She was always soft, if you look at her wrong, she wilts, heck, she didnt eat for two days because the racket Lincoln made in his crate with his cone made her anxious ... derpy dog ... LOL.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

Laurelin said:


> I dunno. I don't feel like any of the older dogs have been hard to train. Hank had like 0 training and he definitely picked it up faster than a puppy would have.


Of the 8 foster dogs I've gone through I'd only call one of them hard to train. That really just came down to the fact that I don't think ANYONE had ever tried to teach them anything, so I had to teach them HOW to learn and that it could be fun. Once we got over that hurdle it wasn't too bad. They were still a bit slow to pick up on things but they were trainable. The bigger issues I've had with any foster dog has been temperamentally and I knew for the most part what I was getting into before I brought them home. For Mercy and Bronson they were both just really poorly socialized I'm sure on top of having timid temperaments. Both were super sweet just scared of the world, both made significant progress while I had them but neither will ever be outgoing dogs. 

None really had any serious behavior issues that were that hard to fix. Bring them into a new home and enforce what the house rules are and most dogs will adjust. They might be inclined to do certain things they got away with before but will usually adjust to the new rules pretty quickly if they are clearly established and enforced. Biggest challenge I've ever had with any other them was Mercy understanding house training... she never did get it before leaving my house, hope for her new owners it finally clicked.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Laurelin said:


> I dunno. I don't feel like any of the older dogs have been hard to train. Hank had like 0 training and he definitely picked it up faster than a puppy would have.


Yea, Luna mostly knew sit and kind of knew stay, but that was it. Everything else I've taught from scratch as you would a puppy.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> And just for the record, I never said it was IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to bond with an adult dog, but I just said I PERSONALLY have a harder time binding with an adult dog. I dont see why that has to be "all on me", I think I know enough about myself to say that I just dont click with older dogs.


For the record, what you actually said was;



OwnedbyACDs said:


> I don't think it's just me because I have known other people who say the same thing.


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## CptJack (Jun 3, 2012)

Laurelin said:


> I dunno. I don't feel like any of the older dogs have been hard to train. Hank had like 0 training and he definitely picked it up faster than a puppy would have.


Yeah, every older dog I've ever had has been much, much easier to train than a puppy. Even if they come with a bad habit or two, it's still easier than a puppy. Which is part of why I prefer puppies, historically - they're a challenge and NEED ME AND I MUST TEACH THEM EVERYTHING. The intensity seems to work to encourage the bond. 

My next dog will seriously probably be somewhere between 9 months and 2 though. I kind of figure going into agility faster will work on that bond, anyway, and even if it doesn't I'd rather have that in my way with a known quantity than all the bonding in the world iwth a dog who turns out with temperament issues.

And I'd really rather untrain/work with temperament issues where I CAN NOT blame myself than when I can.


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## les_garten (Nov 26, 2008)

sixhubbs said:


> We're ready for a new puppy but don't know which breed to chose. We like golden retrievers but they are a bit too big. We'd like a mid size dog and we love reddish hair. We want a mellow, not hyper dog that doesn't yip at everything or is easily spooked. Any suggestions?


The perfect Red dog is a 30# English Cocker Spaniel in Red.

Now the Perfect dog here has some "stuff" that goes with him, some the same as a Golden, such as grooming. We do ours ourselves. If you start from Literally day one doing it yourself like we did, it's no issue. Personally I would not let anyone else do it. He'd get shaved and it would ruin his coat.

This is the sweetest of dogs if socialized correctly. I've never been around a more Loving piece of "Velcro" in my life.

People ask me what he is sometimes, and I say he is a miniture Golden Retriever! ;-)

Here's ours at 1 year.










*Here he is enjoying his present of Home made Liver and Oatmeal cookies, YUM!*


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## elrohwen (Nov 10, 2011)

les_garden, he's beautiful! You should post a picture thread! I love ECS.


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## les_garten (Nov 26, 2008)

elrohwen said:


> les_garden, he's beautiful! You should post a picture thread! I love ECS.


Thanx! He's a great dog.

Here's a few more:










*Fetch! *






*Grooming Lesson from the Breeder, 10 weeks:*






*Duck Hunting:*


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## Pomegranate (Oct 16, 2015)

Oh my gosh, les_garten, he is a doll! I was never that into the spaniel "look" growing up but now that I'm an adult a beautiful, noble spaniel gets me every time! What a handsome boy.


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## les_garten (Nov 26, 2008)

Pomegranate said:


> Oh my gosh, les_garten, he is a doll! I was never that into the spaniel "look" growing up but now that I'm an adult a beautiful, noble spaniel gets me every time! What a handsome boy.


He's just a Miniature Springer after all...


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## parapluie (Oct 20, 2015)

The photo in the pool with the drink... love it!!


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## Sarazz (Nov 14, 2015)

Get a Lab puppy! Even though they will grow to be about the same size as a golden, they are amazing family pets who doesn't really yip or bark. However, they do need lots of exercise EVERY DAY. So if you and your family are active, labs are perfect for you.


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## hanksimon (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree with a Lab !!! However, YMMV as far as whether they bark ;-)


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

I bond with a certain type of dog, someone with my personality I will admit has NO patience for a soft, or fearful dog. I like a biddable dog, but I also like a dog who can think on its own and has the confidence to take the initiative. I love a dog with a certain amount of willingness to perform a task "without" me, so to speak. Lincoln is like that, I can teach him something and once he knows it, I can built distance very easily. But a dog who falls apart because I said no to them, or looked at them too long, yeah, no.

this is why I prefer puppies, no baggage, and a clean slate.


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## dagwall (Mar 17, 2011)

OwnedbyACDs said:


> I bond with a certain type of dog, someone with my personality I will admit has NO patience for a soft, or fearful dog. I like a biddable dog, but I also like a dog who can think on its own and has the confidence to take the initiative. I love a dog with a certain amount of willingness to perform a task "without" me, so to speak. Lincoln is like that, I can teach him something and once he knows it, I can built distance very easily. But a dog who falls apart because I said no to them, or looked at them too long, yeah, no.
> 
> this is why I prefer puppies, no baggage, and a clean slate.


But all of that has to do with the dogs personality and has nothing to do with the dogs age...

Again no one cares if you prefer puppies to adults for getting a new dog but you keep giving reasons that don't actually apply to puppy vs. adult choices.


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## OwnedbyACDs (Jun 22, 2013)

dagwall said:


> But all of that has to do with the dogs personality and has nothing to do with the dogs age...
> 
> Again no one cares if you prefer puppies to adults for getting a new dog but you keep giving reasons that don't actually apply to puppy vs. adult choices.


Maybe I worded that incorrectly, I should have said "I also much prefer puppies because they have a lesser chance of baggage and are a clean slate (provided they are from a good breeder)."


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## Hiraeth (Aug 4, 2015)

Puppies aren't clean slates no matter where they're from. They are genetically predisposed to certain behaviors that can be influenced by training, but not removed altogether. 

The ONLY way in which puppies are sort of "clean slates" is that they haven't been poorly trained or abused, if purchased from a "good" breeder. Other than that, softness and biddability are genetic predispositions and appear in both well bred and poorly bred dogs.


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## ireth0 (Feb 11, 2013)

Hiraeth said:


> Puppies aren't clean slates no matter where they're from. They are genetically predisposed to certain behaviors that can be influenced by training, but not removed altogether.
> 
> The ONLY way in which puppies are sort of "clean slates" is that they haven't been poorly trained or abused, if purchased from a "good" breeder. Other than that, *softness and biddability are genetic predispositions and appear in both well bred and poorly bred dogs.*


Agree. Softness is a personality trait. Many breeds are known for having softer temperaments, so presumably they would be soft whether you got them as a puppy or not.


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