# My Mastiff Neapolitano has mange. Help!



## Glo (May 11, 2013)

Hi y'all, I have a 9 month old Neapolitan Mastiff. I started to see some scabs 2 months ago and her hair was falling on those spots so I took her to the Vet and she scraped her and said she has Demodectic mange, which he said it's not big deal. He told me that there were 2 treatments involved for this: 
1- Dips twice a week for 6 months, the only treatment approved by the FDA, or
2- Ivermectin injection, but ORALLY. Through the mouth. He recommended the later. Bella has been 2 months taking 2 cc's of the Ivomec (Ivermectin) every day, and it's the same. Nothing better. The only thing is that the hair is not falling, but she's bumpy and scabby all over, specially on her left cheek The doctor gave her now antibs "just in case" he said. She's been taking 3 "Cephalexin" 500 mgm capsules twice a day, for a total of 3 grams and she's the same. What can I do? I stopped her on the ivermectin because she hardly wanted to eat. She took it for 2 months. So, is my vet accurate? What do you recommend? He also gave me a medicated shampoo containing: Chloroxylenol 2% Salicylic Acid 2% and Sodium Thiosulfate (source of soluble sulfur) Is this good? what can I do? I feel bad for my baby.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

My Carolina Dog had this along with some very persistent scratching and chewing due to the discomfort combined with anxiety. The combination proved VERY tough to treat and we fought it her entire life. We found keeping up with flea treatment was critical as was trying to keep her as calm as possible. Just like if our skin gets irritated, the more they itch, the more it itches and so on and so on. Our vet also had us put her on benedryl regularly whenever it would flare up particularly bad and she had swelling. It seemed to be much worse in the summers and she got some relief in the winters, but I never felt like we were able to get it fully under control where we were living in Florida.

I wish I had a treatment to recommend that worked completely for us and hopefully someone else who chimes in will, but in our case, it was just one of those things we tried to manage as best we could for her.


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## packetsmom (Mar 21, 2013)

Just to clarify, we also did the dips (which are pretty nasty, but you can do them yourself to save some dollars. They smelled very chemically, as you might expect and weren't pleasant for her or me!) and the ivermectin, which she seemed to mind less. My vet gave me pre-filled syringes for that. We eventually stopped those unless she had a particularly bad flare up. We never did get the mites completely under control and she pretty much lived with itching and swelling for the few years we had her before she was diagnosed with bone cancer and we eventually had her PTS.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I fostered two demodectic mange puppies. Both were treated with oral ivomec (daily) and benzoyl peroxide shampoo with 2.5% Benzoyl Peroxide and 2% Sulfur (about 3 times weekly) 

Both did very well. 

Here's some keys IMO:
Good nutrition. All dogs have the demodex mites on them, dogs that have poor immune systems are the ones that develop symptoms of mange. The better food they get, the better their immune system (generally). So I fed grain-free and supplemented their dry food with sardines as treats (packed in water, no salt added) and a tiny bit of olive oil (about a teaspoon) drizzled over their kibble.

Benedryl for anti-itch. The less they scratch, the better their skin can heal. A "cone of shame" aka the big plastic cone worn after surgery or an inflatable collar can help with them biting their itchy spots. Keeping nails trimmed and blunted can help with scratching.

The Ivomec. The one puppy needed about 4-5 months of it to heal. The other puppy about 3-4 months of it. Neither had any appetite problems while taking ivomec. That might be unrelated for your dog and should maybe be considered separately. 

I used a spray on the worst of the blistery areas; called "Nutri-vet" it is an antimicrobial wound spray (there are several brands) consisting of water, alcohol, benzalkonium chloride (0.12%), aloe, tocopheryl acetate, citric acid. The actual ingredients vary, but the idea is to keep the irritated skin sanitary and less irritated.

Growing up tends to help many mange puppies, as they age, they develop a better immune system and can fight the mites.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

Has your vet done a recent skin scraping to check to see if the mange is still active? 

One of the vets I work for recommends fish oil capsule for the inflammation and astragalus capsules to help support and boost the immunes system. http://thewholedog.org/wholedognews/astragalus-for-your-dogs-immune-support/ 3 times weekly shampooing with the type of shampoo Shell suggests. 

Agree with shell also on better foods for a dog that has the mange.

I personally saw a Great Dane pup who lost most of her hair before this vet got to her. The owner followed what the vet said and the bald little puppy grew up to be a beautiful Great Dane with no skin issues whatsoever. Looking at her today no one would ever guess she was so bald and stunk from the yeast infection that no one wanted to pet her.


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## 5 s corral (Dec 31, 2007)

we are treating a pup at our shelter with promaris spot on so far its working ask your vet about it


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

packetsmom said:


> My Carolina Dog had this along with some very persistent scratching and chewing due to the discomfort combined with anxiety. The combination proved VERY tough to treat and we fought it her entire life. We found keeping up with flea treatment was critical as was trying to keep her as calm as possible. Just like if our skin gets irritated, the more they itch, the more it itches and so on and so on. Our vet also had us put her on benedryl regularly whenever it would flare up particularly bad and she had swelling. It seemed to be much worse in the summers and she got some relief in the winters, but I never felt like we were able to get it fully under control where we were living in Florida.
> 
> I wish I had a treatment to recommend that worked completely for us and hopefully someone else who chimes in will, but in our case, it was just one of those things we tried to manage as best we could for her.


Thank you Packetsmom. I have heard it is something very difficult to get rid of. I live in Texas and there are a lot of allergies going on here too, so maybe the weather has a lot to do about it?


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

packetsmom said:


> Just to clarify, we also did the dips (which are pretty nasty, but you can do them yourself to save some dollars. They smelled very chemically, as you might expect and weren't pleasant for her or me!) and the ivermectin, which she seemed to mind less. My vet gave me pre-filled syringes for that. We eventually stopped those unless she had a particularly bad flare up. We never did get the mites completely under control and she pretty much lived with itching and swelling for the few years we had her before she was diagnosed with bone cancer and we eventually had her PTS.


Oh I am sorry. Yes, I have also heard that maybe she will have to live with this for the rest of her life which six, but sometimes there is nothing we can do about it. I stopped the ivermectin as well, because she didn't seem to get better at all. Did the dips work for you? And where can I get them? Thanks for all your advise.


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

Shell said:


> I fostered two demodectic mange puppies. Both were treated with oral ivomec (daily) and benzoyl peroxide shampoo with 2.5% Benzoyl Peroxide and 2% Sulfur (about 3 times weekly)
> 
> Both did very well.
> 
> ...


Thanks Shell. I will buy the "Nutri-Vet" and the benadryl. I will also buy her sardines as you said. Now, I stopped the Ivomec. So I think I should give it to her for as long as it takes to get rid of the d mange?
Now in reference to the food, she has suffered a lot with it. When she came home to me she was eating Purina pro plan puppy. She had diarrhea all the time so I started switching to better foods. I had he on: Blue Buffalo and switched from several of their puppy brands, Natural Balance, Natural Choice, and another two I don't remember the name. I spent a lot of money and she always had diarrhea. Now I have her on Beneful puppy. The food is not good, but her stools are not loose. They're just soft. I would like her to have stools like the other dogs in my house. They are normal hard. So what can I do?


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

luv mi pets said:


> Has your vet done a recent skin scraping to check to see if the mange is still active?
> 
> One of the vets I work for recommends fish oil capsule for the inflammation and astragalus capsules to help support and boost the immunes system. http://thewholedog.org/wholedognews/astragalus-for-your-dogs-immune-support/ 3 times weekly shampooing with the type of shampoo Shell suggests.
> 
> ...


Hey luv. Yes the vet has done a scrape twice. The first time when he diagnosed her and the second time to see if she had something else. She didn't but he gave her antibiotics just in case (???) In reference to better foods, I will investigate, but I have fed her good foods that give her diarrhea. What food do y'all recommend?


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## zeronightfarm (Jun 15, 2011)

Shell said:


> I fostered two demodectic mange puppies. Both were treated with oral ivomec (daily) and benzoyl peroxide shampoo with 2.5% Benzoyl Peroxide and 2% Sulfur (about 3 times weekly)


This is what I did with my foster as well, he is all cleared up, and he hasn't had a flair up since.

I put him on grain free food as well.


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

Glo said:


> Thanks Shell. I will buy the "Nutri-Vet" and the benadryl. I will also buy her sardines as you said. Now, I stopped the Ivomec. So I think I should give it to her for as long as it takes to get rid of the d mange?
> Now in reference to the food, she has suffered a lot with it. When she came home to me she was eating Purina pro plan puppy. She had diarrhea all the time so I started switching to better foods. I had he on: Blue Buffalo and switched from several of their puppy brands, Natural Balance, Natural Choice, and another two I don't remember the name. I spent a lot of money and she always had diarrhea. Now I have her on Beneful puppy. The food is not good, but her stools are not loose. They're just soft. I would like her to have stools like the other dogs in my house. They are normal hard. So what can I do?


I would continue the Ivomec. Some dogs are on it for a long time, but until healed, without it they regress in terms of skin condition. 

Hmm, Beneful is a pretty low quality food. In fact, that's often what the dogs are eating when they come to me with such skin and coat problems. (Pedigree is the other poor quality food that I switch them off of right away). 

Have you tried a fish based food? Either a limited ingredient diet like Natural Balance's LID Sweet Potato and Fish or a general grain-free fish based one like Taste of the Wild's Pacific Stream or Earthborn's Coastal Catch? 
Those are All Life Stages foods.

Try adding a tablespoon of PLAIN canned pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling) to her meals 1-2 times per day when you change to a new food. Switch the foods slowly over 2 weeks (gradually adding more of the new food and less of the old food). 
Don't top the food with any oil until her stools are firm since extra fats can cause loose stools.


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## luv mi pets (Feb 5, 2012)

It may not be the food at all to blame on the diarrhea. She could have giardia that will not show up in a simple fecal test. There is a snap test a vet can run to rule this out. 

I recently went to a pro-heart conference and was told this is being used off label as taking care of mange on dogs.

A dog with mange often times starts to look worse once treatment starts and just as suddenly the dog start looking normal again.

5s corral I thought promeris got recalled or was stopped being made because of a skin infection that was caused from using promeris. I believe it was stopped in Sept 2011 http://health4uandpets.typepad.com/...ion-due-to-study-linking-it-to-pemphigus.html


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## Emmett (Feb 9, 2013)

Along with the great advice you've already received, I also wanted to mention limiting stress. All dogs have demodex mites, but usually only dogs with "weak" immune systems show symptoms. Otis has an immune-mediated disease and whenever he gets stressed (we're talking *major* stress) he gets breakout spots on his muzzle and legs. I've used the washes, sprays, localized dips and oral ivermectin and while they were all effective the single most effective strategy for us was removing or lessening the stressor(s). Obviously a more widespread case might not respond so dramatically, but its still something to add to your toolbox.


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

Yes, I know Beneful is bad, but it's the only one that lets her have mushy stools. As a matter of fact, I was thinking of switching all my dogs to raw. Any ideas on the cost? I have never tried a fish food. I read here that Wellness Core is a pretty good food. I will buy something w/ fish in a small pouch and see if she gets better. I know about the pumpkin and I do it when I switch meals. I have "fruitables" and she loves it too lol. Shell, have you heard of a raw food called: "I and Love and You"


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I haven't heard of that brand, but I don't feed raw. The premade raw diets tend to be pretty expensive for larger dogs. 

However, if you can make the time and have the freezer space, a homemade raw diet might be affordable. If there are old school butcher shops around for cheaper meats (like the less popular cuts of meat or ones that get freezer burned), if you know deer hunters, if there are farms where you can buy a half cow etc, then buying on sale and storing in a chest freezer and defrosting a few days at a time can be as cheap or cheaper than a premium dry dog food. I think Sibe recently did a post in the Food forum on her yearly cost of raw.


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

Shell said:


> I haven't heard of that brand, but I don't feed raw. The premade raw diets tend to be pretty expensive for larger dogs.
> 
> However, if you can make the time and have the freezer space, a homemade raw diet might be affordable. If there are old school butcher shops around for cheaper meats (like the less popular cuts of meat or ones that get freezer burned), if you know deer hunters, if there are farms where you can buy a half cow etc, then buying on sale and storing in a chest freezer and defrosting a few days at a time can be as cheap or cheaper than a premium dry dog food. I think Sibe recently did a post in the Food forum on her yearly cost of raw.


Thanks Shell. I live in the country and I will look around. There are many cows around and ranchers so maybe I can find some. I'll check Sibe. What do u feed yours?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

I feed a few different foods- Fromm's Classic (their grain-frees are nice but the classic is CHEAP and the dogs do well on it), Taste of the Wild High Prairie (and will try Pacific Stream soon), Acana Wild Prarie, and sometimes a bag of Earthborn Coastal Catch. 
In a bid to encourage more water intake now that it is getting hot outside, I'm adding warm water to their morning dry food (about 1/2 cup water to 1 cup of dry food- they love it) and for Chester, subbing out half his dry food dinner with Grandma Lucy's freeze-dried chicken blend which is rehydrated 1:1 and makes a nice mushy chicken-y meal.

I look for foods with no artificial flavors or colors, no corn/wheat/soy (my dog does much better avoiding corn), named meat and meat meals- both because it tends to be better than just "animal meal" in terms of sources/quality and because I need to avoid pork products, and aiming for most protein from meat sources rather than pea protein or plant protein (peas are fine IMO, I just don't want them as the bulk of the protein content).

Here's a change for a dog that was eating Pedigree when he arrived after only 1 week on a good grain free with some fish and chicken liver supplements; he didn't have demodex but just dry dandruff skin









Here's a comparison on a dog with Demodetic Mange

















And here's another demodex puppy (first photo is Day 1, second is about 3 weeks later)

















Both those dogs had moderate hair loss by the time they arrived at my house, the red and white dog with the stand-up ears arrived at the shelter COMPLETELY hairless and covered with scabs and bumps. So she'd made much progress already. Getting out of a shelter and into a low stress environment is very important for them to be able to fight the mites.


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

I have experience with about 2 dozen dogs and demodectic mange. Just a few with sarcoptic. 

This is a pup I fostered last fall, Bennett. August 17th.










When I picked him up the day this picture was taken, he ruined a shirt of mine. I had to carry him to the car and touching his skin anywhere made it open up and bleed. He had to be contained to my kitchen because the carpet made his feet bleed. Outside in the grass, it cut his feet open and they bled. He was a walking scab. He was on cephalexin for about a month, 2 medicated shampoo baths a week, ivermectin (about .09cc at the highest dose) for about 4 months, and he finally had some fur when he got adopted. 

This is a picture from September 5th... Almost a month, no hair regrowth had started, and he was finally almost scab-less... wasn't bleeding nearly as much when you pet him. 










Here he is with his new family... late September, had just started regrowing a little hair around his chest










In November I got an update that he still needed to grow hair on his feet, but was almost full everywhere else. 

That's a four month span and the worst case of mange I've ever seen. 

I also supplemented fish oil and vitamin C with a great routine and diet. No stress. I would be a little worried that your dog hasn't made any improvement yet when there wasn't nearly as much mange as this guy had.


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

WOW Shell, the mange doggie looks great! I am searching places where to buy the foods you told me. I have tried so many that I was going crazy. I'm tired of mushy stools. Do you rescue dogs, foster them or keep them? How many dogs do you have?


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## Shell (Oct 19, 2009)

DJ posted a good photo comparison of a bad mange case; I've seen that sort of progress too in other people's foster dogs and the red and white pup started out looking like that at the shelter but I don't have any photos from that stage. There was one puppy the rescue pulled that was nothing but scabs and sores and raw skin. 
Before:







After:









The dogs (except the red one in my sig pic) are all fosters. One at a time.


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

OMG Shell, what an improvement! I don't think I would be able to foster dogs. I would want to keep all of them lol


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## DJEtzel (Dec 28, 2009)

Glo said:


> OMG Shell, what an improvement! I don't think I would be able to foster dogs. I would want to keep all of them lol


I got almost to 20 this year and finally found a dog I wanted to keep. Unfortunately I couldn't, but it was easier than I thought! lol


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

I hear ya, but can you imagine? I already have 7 dogs! And I adopted 3 stray cats that live outside and bring their buddies to lunch!!!!! I spayed/neutered them, vaccines, etc. Sometimes I think I work for my babies and I am pretty sure it's true. Lol but what I mean is that I would not be able to get rid of them. I would get very attached to them. I never bred my females, because I would not be able to get rid of the lil' ones lol. I am truly addicted to dogs!


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## reynosa_k9's (Dec 14, 2007)

Glo, I used to feed mine raw and with the added health benefits it was very cost effective. Now that I have 10, 5 of which are Great Danes, and the rest are large breeds I have switched to kibble. At least 30lbs of meat daily was kicking my finances out the window. I know what you mean about working for your dogs - that about sums it up for me. 
Anyway, Tractor Supply has some very good, and affordable grain free dry foods. I was feeding that until just recently I saw that Costco also has a good grain free that's even more affordable.
As for the mange, we have treated probably in the 4 digit figure now at the rescue and we use the blue pour on for cattle Ivermectin. We apply it the same way one would Frontline - between the shoulder blades. That, along with a good diet, has always workied in even the worst of cases.
Some of this may have already been said in this post but lazy me, I just scanned through to get the jist of it here.

I do hope things continue to improve with your doggy bunch. There is nothing more grand than a large and happy family.


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## samshine (Mar 11, 2011)

I have a dog that has a tendency towards softer stools too. For him it was important to firm up because the stool was not hard enough to empty his anal glands. Here's what we learned.

I had heard people on line say that switching their dogs to EVO fixed their anal gland problems. We tried it and it worked for us, gave him much harder stools. In fact, some dogs can become constipated on this food. However, some dogs also get diarrhea with this food. Probably because it is very high in protein, or maybe because they are just feeding too much or switching too fast. This food is very very high in calories. If you try it, you need to look up the calories per cup with your current food and compare to EVOs 537 or so per cup. If you are feeding Beneful you may find you need to feed half as much. This food is expensive but when you figure the cost per feeding it is comparable to other high end foods. I think the reason that EVO works for many is that it is very high in calcium. So high that it is not recommended for growing puppies. 

Raw feeding people know that too much bone in the diet causes such hard stools that the dog can become constipation. Perhaps you could switch to a better food and add some bones to the diet, or perhaps bone meal. (this is a VERY BAD idea for puppies, it can cause joint problems and arthritis from growing too fast. At 9 months, your pup is past the age of rapid growth so it should be okay)

Definitely try a good probiotic, especially when switching foods. I just buy a human brand. Look for one with as many strains as possible and one that has been refrigerated. I buy one marketed for children because it comes in a loose powdered form. Easy to add to his food.

What ever you do, I think you should get him on a better food. Beneful is doing NO favors for his immune system. Raw would be great if you can swing it. You mentioned a food I and Love and You, which I have seen at Vitamin Cottage. If you are talking about the bag of kibble, this really is not the equivalent of feeding raw, because it is processed. Real pre-made raw food would be in the freezer. (It may still be a good food.) A good quality fish oil capsule is great for the immune system. I've heard that some of the fish oil on the market is not that good and may be rancid. Do some research. I also like to give canned sardines in water a couple times a week.

Good luck!


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

reynosa_k9's said:


> Glo, I used to feed mine raw and with the added health benefits it was very cost effective. Now that I have 10, 5 of which are Great Danes, and the rest are large breeds I have switched to kibble. At least 30lbs of meat daily was kicking my finances out the window. I know what you mean about working for your dogs - that about sums it up for me.
> Anyway, Tractor Supply has some very good, and affordable grain free dry foods. I was feeding that until just recently I saw that Costco also has a good grain free that's even more affordable.
> As for the mange, we have treated probably in the 4 digit figure now at the rescue and we use the blue pour on for cattle Ivermectin. We apply it the same way one would Frontline - between the shoulder blades. That, along with a good diet, has always workied in even the worst of cases.
> Some of this may have already been said in this post but lazy me, I just scanned through to get the jist of it here.
> ...


Yes dear, you are right. The raw food would not do for me. Seven dogs plus the three+ stray cats that live outside that I feed and take to the vet, would leave me in the cold. I will keep feeding the kibble, but I will get rid of the Beneful. The problem is that they take a long time to get adapted to the food. I ended up buying it at Pet Supplies Plus, because they refund me when the food does;t agree with Bella, so that's an advantage. I guess I will start again to feed her other foods. Samshine has mentioned Evo in this post and I will start with that one. 
In reference to the mange, Tiger gave me a great home made recipe and it's working! It's Borax soap with peroxide. The bloody raw spots are gone and now they are crusty and bald only. She scratched so bad that the little hair she had was all crusty with blood. Not anymore. so I'll keep on with the same thing. I stopped the Ivermectin when I saw that Tiger's remedy is working. Thanks love


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

samshine said:


> I have a dog that has a tendency towards softer stools too. For him it was important to firm up because the stool was not hard enough to empty his anal glands. Here's what we learned.
> 
> I had heard people on line say that switching their dogs to EVO fixed their anal gland problems. We tried it and it worked for us, gave him much harder stools. In fact, some dogs can become constipated on this food. However, some dogs also get diarrhea with this food. Probably because it is very high in protein, or maybe because they are just feeding too much or switching too fast. This food is very very high in calories. If you try it, you need to look up the calories per cup with your current food and compare to EVOs 537 or so per cup. If you are feeding Beneful you may find you need to feed half as much. This food is expensive but when you figure the cost per feeding it is comparable to other high end foods. I think the reason that EVO works for many is that it is very high in calcium. So high that it is not recommended for growing puppies.
> 
> ...


Dear Sam, it is true! The soft stool are bad for the dog and a nightmare to clean. I have to work for 12 hours at home with them, so when I can't take them out in the yard, I let them go in the patio and lo and behold, cleaning never ends; while the others just pick up with a broom and dustpan, Bella's have to be picked up in plastic bags and cleaned after.

I will try the Evo. I hate Beneful too, but it's the only one that didn't give her diarrhea so I kept it, but I know it's not good. Like I told Reynosa, the problem is that they take a long time to adapt to a food so it takes forever to find the right one. I cannot go raw in one and kibble with the others. Now the I and Love and You food, it's freeze dried, so you have to add water to make it raw, but I agree with you. It's really not raw. I found the raw food in the freezer of the store and I thought of trying it, but hell, it's so expensive that I can't afford it. If I had only one dog, it would be a no brainer.
I don't trust myself in doing my own raw, because I did it before and it turned out that my Belgian Mal (deceased already) Was lacking some nutrients and having too much of others, so I rather buy it if that's the case. I will start with the canned sardines. That's good for the pocket too. Thanks for all your advise


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## Glo (May 11, 2013)

Hey everyone! Tiger gave me a recipe and it's working for Bella. It's Borax soap with peroxide. I bathe her and then put this mixture and let it on. Let it dry alone. No towels or anything. The bloody raw spots are gone and they are crusty and bald ONLY now, so I will keep on with this till it clears. I took her off the Ivermectin. It was too bad for her. Also I started with the other dogs, because it's good to keep fleas and ticks away HIP HIP HOORRAY for TIGER!!!!!:clap2:


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